Bonus: Michelle Pfeiffer on becoming Betty Ford and diving into entrepreneurship

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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Well, before summer is officially over, I wanted to share a delightful conversation I recently had with the one and only Michelle Peiffer. I don't know about you all, but I think Michelle is pretty amazing. She's had a remarkable career in film with iconic roles and scarface, The Witches of Eastwick, The Fabulous Baker Boys, which I really want to rewatch soon, and the Age of Innocence. This past spring, she did an incredible job playing Betty Ford and Showtime star studded political drama The First Lady. What is it you'd like me to do? Your family wants you to go to a rehabilitation center for a drug and alcohol addiction. I am not. I am the First Lady. I am not a drug addict, and I am certainly not an alcoholic. Well, recently, she has stepped out of the Hollywood glare, launching a fragrance brand called Henry Rose, and the backstory of that is really fascinating. We talked about all of it, her career aging in Hollywood, her new endeavor, and so much more. It's the perfect thing to tide you over until our new season begins on September twenty nine, and we have got a lot of great conversations in store. But first, here's Michelle. Michelle, you do such a remarkable job portraying Betty Ford in Showtimes The first lady, What was your reaction when you were approached about this role? It was a very visceral one. And I didn't know much about Betty Ford other than the fact other than of course, her struggles with drug addiction and alcoholism, and and the fact that she founded the Betty for Treatment Center and that and Susan Bart was directing, already attached, Viola Davis was Flay, Michelle Obama and also producing, and I felt, wow, that's an amazing team. Um, we hadn't cast eleanor yet, but I figured they were going to get somebody pretty great, and they did with Jillian Uh. And so I did something I never do and I literally said yes on the phone with Suzanne Bearer, and um, I'm not sure. I hadn't even read anything yet. I was just so honored, honestly, and felt so privileged to have that opportunity. And then and then once I started to dig into her story, her um and all of the layers of who she was, Um, I got really scared and I thought, what have I gotten myself into? And of course, you know, the clock was ticking and we you know, not all of the scripts were written, and so we all sort of rolled up our sleeves and um. For me, it was really important to really be as accurate it as we could with her story, because it's interesting enough on its own, you don't really have to embellish it. It made me fall in love with Betty Ford all over again. And she was such a remarkable woman. And before we talk about all her qualities, how did you prepare for the role, Michelle? Did you read a lot of books? Did you watch video tape of her? Did you watch your speeches? How did you immerse yourself into her life? Well, I actually have, you know, we recently moved in, so I all of my with all of my post it's and you know, I mean, it's really like a treasure hunt always and and every script is different which takes you on a different journey and demands different things of you. And of course I worked with the with the great great Tim Monic dialect coach. She's just amazing. And her accent was a little tricky because it was sort of not pure. Um. It was a little southern and in a little Midwestern and um, and of course you know, brilliant wigs and amazing makeup and hair people and the costumes and it all just sort of comes together. You have to get over the hurdle though, of you're not going to look exactly like the person. And when I did Ruth made up, I I you know, I put so much pressure on myself that I didn't look so much like her. And weirdly enough, you end up getting kind of close, I mean close enough so that you capture their their essence. So and then it was really just there's a ton of footage out there, interviews that she's she gave, speeches that she gave, dancing with Tony and Landam. I mean, it's just crazy, um, the things that she did. Um, you know, she was just kind of big troublemaker. And anyway, I loved researching her. I fell in love with her as well. Um, everyone who had seen this says exactly the same thing. They didn't know, They had no idea. Um, her full story and how impactful she was in the White House and what she did for you know, women and breast cancer, screening and and and and saved thousands of lives. Um. And what she did for you know, lifting the stigma off of addiction and alcoholism and allowing people, enabling them to come forward and actually talk about it and get the help that they need. And you know, she was a liberal Republican who was pro choice, who became first lady who took on a feminist agenda and was really one of the was one of the first first ladies to really speak out publicly and differ with with her husband, um and sometimes to the detriment of career. Um. And you know her impact and you know, and they weren't even in a full term, I don't think. I think it was a couple of years and um. And then she obviously continued on with her work at the Betty Ford Center. She was born in Chicago but raised in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And while she studied dance with Martha Graham, her dreams of being a professional dancer were never quite realized. In some ways, her destiny was determined by the limitations that were put on women of her era. Did you find that interesting because I think with all these first ladies, you almost see the evolution of women coming into their own and in a way, Betty had to straddle the expectations of a traditional wife and mother, the opportunities and the activism that was happening at the same time. Yeah, and imagine having to navigate that under a microscope. And um, you know, and I think that with the exception of Eleanor Roosevelt, you know, our three, you know, I think Betty and Michelle, from what I understand, Um, we're not that keen maybe to go to the White House, um and um. And it's also the thing that Jerry Ford loved. I mean, look, Jerry Ford. First of all, he married a divorcee knowing he was going to be running for office. I mean, he does that not then, I mean, you were considered a black widow and it was this sort of shroud of shame that you had to carry with you. And she know she did that. She actually, um divorced her husband at a very young age and she um, yes, she wanted to be a dancer, and then she got her own apartment and she wasn't really incredibly independent when she met Jerry, and he loved that about her. And then and he must have seen something in her that I felt that she would make a good first lady. Um. Either that or he was just desperately in love with her. I think a little both. But it was her. Shortly after she got into the White House, it was within months she was diagnosed with breast cancer and she saw Um, she saw how impactful she could be in her position, and I think it was that thing. It was like an awakening for her. But she, you know, ruffled a lot of feathers and I think um but ultimately was more popular and ben Jerry was because she just spoke the truth and when people really responded to she just said it as it is. There's a great scene in the movie where she has put together a press release about her breast cancer diagnosis and potential nystectomy and the press secretary is so taken aback and says, but this is so personal, Mrs Ford, and Betty says, yes, it is, and that's why I get to decide how to handle it. It was such a great scene because it showed this steely determination that really existed in Betty. I mean, she was she was tough and had to stand out to a lot of people. A lot of other women at the time might have might have crumbled and said, okay, me and culpa, I'll do it your way, but she refused. She did, and there were a couple. There was one time where she did, and that was when she was fighting for the the e r A ratification and UM, and it really was threatening his his chances of reelection UM. And I think she also realized more importantly that the bad press it was getting could ultimately actually hurt the cause and she wasn't really helping. So that was one incident. But but other than that, you're right, Um, there was something that I really wanted to get into the show, but there was so much to tell about her that we really had to pick and choose. And it was towards the end, and it was during Jerry's um Re election campaign and they were traveling and they were on the road and there was a women's rights march and Betty brought you know, and they all had these outfits which you see in the film were so cute, and they she brought her outlet and she had every intention of marching in this event, and I believe that was when I think Jerry came to her and asked her not to, and Um, she ultimately did. Though once they left office, she actually got to March Yeah More with the beautiful and Charmie Michelle Feiffer right after this. It was interesting, Michelle for me to see there was a real backlash against not only what Betty was doing, but what she was standing for. When Ronald Reagan arrived on the scene. There was backlash within the Republican Party for sure. Well there was backlash from the get go with her, so UM, but I think that towards the end, if I'm I'm gonna get this right, I think that towards the end, his bull started really tipping. Her. Polls were high, much higher than his. Her approval writing UM, and they though, yeah, Ronald Reagan came in and really appealed to the really far right. And UM, I mean, I don't know, I have a suspision because that, and you know, he ultimately, Jerry ultimately ended up losing the election. But I think a lot of it also had to do with the partnering of Nixon. I think, UM, and I think Betty is right that it did UM leave people with the impression that perhaps he was complicit and and he he wasn't. But what was going on at the time, as people really looking for somebody to trust that they were they were so mistrustful after Watergate, and um, I think it was sort of, you know, a time when they had really felt betrayed by the government and and they and I think that's what they liked about Betting. That's what made her so popular, is because when somebody is that outspoken and they just talked, they and they go up against the tide and they really are just speaking for the people, um and really trying to make change to help the public, and it's not political. They respond to that. And I think maybe Jerry fell into that trap rather than just really um being just speaking his truth, because the truth is he supported the e r A when he was in Congress, and but I think, you know, maybe, I don't know, maybe he lost his way. Well, there was a lot of pressure to move towards the right when Ronald Reagan arrived on the scene. So there was this friction between standing up for things that would be beneficial to women and the more traditional right wing arm of the Republican Party which Reagan represented. So ultimately Jerry Ford did get the nomination, but it was clear Ronald Reagan had arrived right right, right all right, I'm speaking about ultimately, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah right right right. So Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, um, certainly don't age well. The decare depiction probably there are many people who don't think they aged well anyway. But they didn't quite know what to do with Betty, did they? No? And she said, she says to Jerry, she says, look, okay, I'll go to the White House, but I'm going to go as myself, and uh, you know, and I think she says that they don't like it, they can kick me out, and you know, and that's really really how she was. And I think it's kind of her. I don't know, I sort of think of Midwestern people like that. They have this sort of this backbone in this sense of integrity and the sense of right and wrong, and that's sort of what guides them, um and um. And it's a way of being brought up. But it's almost in your DNA. And I believe that's who Betty thought Jerry was, and I think at his core he was. But yeah, no, they didn't. They just didn't know what to do with her at all. She just would not do what she was told. They are portrayed in such a a opportunistics smarmie kind of you know, I guess their political operatives and that's what they are. Or were operators handlers handlers. Yeah, they couldn't take their eye off the prize, and the prize was staying in power. Right. Was it interesting for you to see what life was like for each of these women, how and how they were all able to, I think, redefine the role of first lady within the context of the times they were living in. I think the common the sort of theme that runs through this piece, um and sort of a strong connecting tissue, is is each of these women finding their voice within the confines and the restrictions, UM, and the limitations the expectations of being the first lady and finding that voice, nurturing that voice, and then using their platform, as you know, to to really influence other women and to help other women, UM take power of their lives. It's it's it's remarkable, you know, kind of watching that journey. I mean, I can only imagine stepping into that role, and especially when with for for Betty, I mean at least with Michelle and elanor they you know, they sort of had some time to process it. And and and Betty was just the most I feel unprepared, and I'm convinced that she really wanted to be there, um and and so heard her journey is really quite remarkable. It was incredibly brave for Betty Ford to come forward and say I have a problem with alcohol and with drugs because she was taking painkillers for a shoulder injury. Right. And how difficult was it for Betty Ford to come forward and say I have a problem or was she just in a situation where she had no choice both? Uh, there was an intervention done with the family, um and you know she had once they left office. You know, she really spiraled down. And I mean the amount of medication that she was taking, and the doctors were just given the directive, just hear whatever she needs. And she was up to twenty pills a day. I think she said in in an interview that I I saw and we never really knew exactly what she was taking, but I assume it was value. You know, they were just giving value. Don't like what it is. It's called mothers that will help her. At that time, they were just dolling out and and um and literally um, you know that that's when I remember that's when doctors were saying, oh, you know, though medication and alcohol it's two different things. There's no problem with mixing them. And I think the hardest thing though for her and she you know, she did go into rehab, Um went in for um drug addiction. Did not want to admit that she was an alcoholic that she felt because I think in her mind she could not take responsibility for the drug addiction because really it was her physicians who got her addicted to these medications, and and because she was in pain and it was something unforeseen. And but I think with the alcohol, that was something that she knew she had. UM two, um, you know, take responsibility for she hit it for years. I mean she was amazing because throughout the series she is drinking a lot, and yet she was extremely high functioning. Wasn't she extremely high functioning alcoholic? And there are a lot of those. And then with the pills at at a certain point, then you're taking twenty pills just to be normal. So it's not about it. It's of course there's pain, but um, you know, it's it's not about feeling high, you know, it's when you're that addicted, then you need you just need to keep upping the doors in order to to to stay normal. And then you know, and then cocktails were really popular. Then you know that Bibo cocktail and uh, you know, a couple of bourbons and then wine with dinner and you know, and then you know when you so adding the alcohol on top on top of that. Um. But yeah, I mean I know a lot of why functioning alcoholics, and so she would get it would become more obvious when she would add the alcohol on top of the pills. Um. But she looked, you can't accomplish everything that she did in the White House, um and not be high functioning and and and just be you know, sloppy drunk all the time. She really really managed it well. But it was a long time. I mean, it was twenty years that she was managing that. Have you heard from any of Betty Ford's kids? Um, I remember I've met Susan many times, then her son's and I'm curious that they have gotten in touch with you about your betrayal of their mom. No, and it's sort of a fantasy of mine, but I know it's a fantasy. If it were my mother and this was her story, worry you know, I just I don't think i'd watch it, and I would not be happy that somebody was rehashing this again, and um because I think it's painful for a family to have to re live that. And and there are things in this kind of dramatization that you have to make up because nobody was there. Nobody was in the room hearing these conversations, so and and you know they're there are scenes you need to put in for transitioning because you were And so they're going to look at it and they're going to want everything to be absolutely accurate, and that's not going to happen. So I don't think that although they did already went through it once. They already went through it with the and I never saw it. His general Rolens is like, you know, it's one of my idols. And um, I know they made a television movie of Awakenings many years ago, and um, I I just was terrified to see it. Um. So they did. They were very involved, I think in that project. So maybe I don't know, maybe they do have a better understanding than I'm giving them credit for. But I think you portrayed her in such a loving, respectful way that they would be pleased, but I'm not them, so I can't speak for them. I really tried, I really tried, and I both Susanna and I really it was our first and foremost. We wanted to honor her and um and because we loved her, and we um um and that that regulating and pacing all of the I mean, it was so every every drink, every time we took pill, it was so calculated and sort of the build of it. And when she would and and um at what level? And was it pills? It was it drinking on top of the pills. Was it just what time of day it was, because she's different in the morning. So it was very and we just didn't want it ever to be about all that, because it was so it would have been so you know, tantalizing and very dramatic and very entertaining. I'm sure to have her whole story be about her addiction, and that isn't We just didn't want that to overshadow all of her other accomplishments. Are you gonna miss Betty? I do miss Betty? I you know, And when I talk about her, it's I get I get emotional. I have to um control it. I still get emotional when I talk about her. I spent a year. Yeah, you read my books, you know, my pile of books with my little post it's, and UM, I got very nostalgic and like, what do we do with these? Now? I can't get room of them. But we'll be right back. Tell us how you got involved in a fragrance company. I when my kids were born, like a lot of new mothers, I became acutely aware of you know, there's you know, our surroundings and started looking at the world through their eyes, and UM, everything was danger danger. And I started paying attention to UM the products we were using and the food we were eating and reading labels and UM. Anyway, kind of long story, super short, super long story short. UM. I I through my research became aware of I stumbled across one day the environmental working groups UM skin deep database. By the way, do you know about this skin deep database? No? Oh my god, you will go down the rabbit hole. It's such an incredible UM resource. So so this was I want to say, ten years ago ish UM, and I've been on my own trying to but but it was the first time I really found science based information to help me choose better products. Look at the products I was using, and the thing that kept coming up on the website was fragrance would be pinned really high for hazard level over and over again. And so I took that to mean, oh, well, gosh, fragrance is really toxic, so I should stop wearing it. We're using it, and so um, I stopped wearing perfume, and I tried um. And also I was I was like a new mom and like most of your parents, and I was working, and I was so stressed out by what, you know, just not wanting to suppose any of us to anything bad. And the more research I did, it was like everything was bad. So um I UM. At some point I saw and I tried all of the sort of non toxic organic plant based fragrances that and I just couldn't find anything that really had that beautiful sort of find fragrance sent to it that and that sort of premium scent and UM, and I missed it. So I said to myself one day, you know, um, this is hogwash. Um. You know, we have the science and and a person shouldn't have to be struggling on a daily basis with the products that perform and and products that are safe. And there have been progress in the personal care, food organic, but nothing in fragrance. And I thought, I wonder, if it's possible, I'm going to see this possible. And so that was my beginning of my journey, and long story short, it was a lot of it was. It was ten years of dead ends and I approached cosmetic companies. They looked at me like I had three heads. They didn't know. I was told, paramins are good for you, We don't know what you're talking about. Um, nobody wants this was the funny one. Nobody wants, you know, a celebrity fragrance anymore. Well, now look at today everything is celebrity, but so um. Eventually I ended up at I F S the and they are one of the biggest fragrance houses in the world, and they actually formulated a cradle to cradle fragrance with them, a collaboration. So I really knew that they knew what I was talking about because I had started down the road with another Craig, big fragrance house and only to be told a year into the formulations that they wouldn't be a hundred percent transparent with the ingredients and that was like a real deal breaker for me. So I ended up launching three years ago and named it Henry Rose after my children, seeing that they were the impetus of the whole thing. And I wanted something that didn't sound like a startup, that didn't sound like that, that didn't didn't feel trendy, that that wasn't in the zeitgeist. I wanted something that was going to scan the test of time. And we have ten. We launched with five, and we have beautiful packaging. And in fact, Michelle, sustainability is also a key ingredient to your product, because not only is the fragrance um, you know, organic or without harmful chemicals of any kind, but the packaging and the bottles themselves are very important. Can you show me a bottle and explain that. So, um, Well, I just found out yesterday, um that this is new packaging. We had launched with a different packaging, and I just found out that by switching to this packaging, we saved our use of paper by sev So that's pretty awesome. I didn't know that. So these are made. This is like a renewable um, compostable, it's um, it's paper pail UM and UM and our caps are made Our caps are made from soy resin which is compostable. These bottles nobody we are the first to use is there are ninety they're made from recycled glass. Are ingredients are used green chemistry UM and we are a mixture of synthetics and naturals and there are a lot of naturals that we can't use because of the allergens in them, and they people really suffer. So there are a lot of people, not everyone um disclaimer, but there are a lot of people who who are sensitive, who you know can't walk into a room where they going to end up in the hospital now, but they can't walk into a room with a candle burning without going you know, having a migraine and migraine and maybe you know, ruining the next two days of their lives. So UM. So we're WG verified and Cradle to cradle certified for safety and for sustainability. We took on a lot and we set a really high bar on every level and it's been an incredible journey UM and we're we're doing well. Was it fun to come up with the fragrances and to be what is it. There's somebody who like the nose right, yes, the nose yes, the perfumer or the nose and um and what Actually when I kept hit hitting dead end after jet end, trying to find someone to help me get this off the ground, help me get these formulations, it was actually WG who recommended I go directly to the fragrance houses, and I thought, really, why would they do that with me? Um, I'm asking them to expose their formulations, which is something they've always considered trade secret, and they don't want to do. See the thing that that I ended up learning about the word fragrance and why e w G would paint it so high. It's not that all fragrance ingredients are toxic. It's that the word fragrance on a package can be comprised of any number of that of thousands of ingredients and some of them toxic and and people don't realize that. And because of the lack of transparency, you know, you know, and to air on the side of caution e w G. When it's just says fragrance and you're not revealing all of your ingredients, they just give it a really high pain. Um. So so let's see I digressed. It was something about gold you or just talking about the nose and kind of coming up with all the difference. That's yeah. So um I, you know, after one false, painful start with another fragrance house, I ended up at FF and um, I cried, uh so it was spy cow. But I'd worked so long and hard and when I walked in, they had a little bottle sitting on the table and it was something they had already formulated with Cradle to Cradle, and it's smelled amazing, and I knew. I thought, Okay, they get it. They get it. They're not gonna lie to me. They're not going to try to you know, They're gonna do this with me, and they know how hard this is. And then I had to learn how to smell. And then I had to learn They taught me, the perfumers taught me because I was working one on one with them and they had to teach me a different language and how to speak to them. And they said, they would say, don't don't don't tell me what you think it smells like, because that would send them off in a really wrong direction because it would be wrong. Whatever I'm saying it smells like it's wrong. They would say, where does it, how does it make you feel, what does it make you think of? What does it remind you of? And and that was sort of how the ore are sent memories were born. And I started to realize with unbeknownst to me, that the very first fragrance that I was trying to formulate was actually was trying to mimic my father's cologne. And I I had always loved men's cologns more than women's perfume. And that was also why I felt the need to make this genderless. One of the needs to make this a genderless line um, because you know, people love what they love, it's not about gender and um and so oh anyway, you know, I realized through that process of learning how to speak to them, it took me back to my father's schoolon and um, so a lot of our sense. You know, Jake's House is another one of our top sailing sense and you know that is was formulated from my memories of my grandfather's house. And it's called Jake's House. Um. Bob reminds me of summers in San Francisco. Um, that sort of woody, wet, fresh kind of scent um and um. So it's been UM, it's been really exciting and um, my world is open up. And then I had to learn how to kind of abused. I sort of used my acting to to um, to approach a scent, not what I would like, but to appreciate it, not not some thing I would necessarily wear, but to appreciate another personality who like a character, who would like that. And so that took some time and I've I've gotten actually really good at that, and that's been and that's been really really important because we had to build out the line. You're also partnering with Breast Cancer Prevention Partners. Tell me why that was important, Well, because you know there are there are studies that because because of the hormone disruption in a lot of fragrances and you know, fragrance. The thing about fragrances is in everything. It's in all of your personal care, it's in all of your your household cleaners, it's in they put it in paper, you know, they put it in crazy things to mask. If something doesn't quite smell all that, they'll put some fragrance in and it's really not you're not even really aware of it, but you know there are because of the hormone own disruption that happens with some of these chemicals, it causes breast cancer. And um it felt like a really um important um partnership to make. And one of the things I read, which I'd like to get into more, and i'd really like to get One of my dreams is to really speak to young women because there are indications and evidence that during puberty is the riskiest time for women to be exposed to these hormone disruptors and it's setting the stage for breast cancer later in life. And if you think about it, it makes sense because your hormones during that time are going crazy, and they're growing, and they're you know, they're increasing and and and if you get in there and you disrupt them, it makes sense that it would set the stage later on in life. And I think, you know, and it's also the time of life where you know, young women are young girls are they just are putting everything on, you know, makeup and perfume and every single product you can imagine they're trying and they're experimenting with and how fun that is. UM. So I think there's a lot of education to be done. And now you know. The thing is, there's no you don't have to choose now anymore between quality and safety. You don't have to. There are a lot of products out there now there there have been, there's the makeup has made huge progress and huge gains personal care um and and the one thing that has really been lagging behind has been fragrance. And now not only can you doubt some something and feel safe doing it, we also now have a safe alternative that goes inside of other products. This it sounds like this has been a really interesting and educational journey for you, that it becoming an entrepreneur as allowed allowed you not to learn only about business, but I mean about science and chemistry and consumer habits. So it sounds as if this has been a fascinating experience for you. Fascinating And you're right. I stepped into this not knowing anything about chemistry, nothing about perfumery, nothing about business, and I have had to learn it all in real time. So it's been kind of mind blowing but exciting. It's not all what do you enjoy more? Acting or starting a business? They're different, you know, they're different, and I get different things out of it, and and I actually thought, you know, I started this, well you don't know this, but I started this. I was letting northern California and my kids were young, and I wasn't really acting a lot, and I didn't really think I probably wouldn't be much anymore, if at all. And I thought, but I'm not done contributing to the world. And I'm that's important to me. That I know, creation, getting up in every morning and creating whatever, that is really important to me. And I thought, what do I remember? It was like New Year's Day one day, and I thought, what do I do I want to do? Like, what would I get excited? And and it was this and um. Then then once I finally got this off the ground ten years later, I started acting again like crazy. And so I didn't really plan it this way. Um. But I'm so that's a long winded way of saying I like them. I like them both. And I don't know that I could pick an embarrassment of riches. Right. Well, I'm so happy for you in all areas of your life. I love your husband. I know you've said you never want to work together. You know, who knows, maybe maybe one day we would, but we've gotten by this part without doing it, And I think there's something about, you know, being able to come home and complain about your day and know that they're going to be on your side because they don't know the other side. Yeah, I think that's important in a marriage. I think so too. Well, thanks for spending some time with me talking about Betty Ford and the First Lady. I really think you did a phenomenal job Michelle portraying her. I loved looking at all the seventies clothes because those were the outfits of my youth, Susan Ford's knee socks and Betty's cute little outfits and even her quilted you know, uh sleep jackets. It was just so fun to see. And I'm excited that we're selling Henry Rose on our website, that you're part of our shop, and honestly, I can't wait to try it myself. What fragrance would you recommend for me? Well? Which kind of category are you? Like? Hello? Sort of a woody, spicy? Are you a floral? Are you I'm a little I'm kind of a citrus girl. Prudy, prudy, citrusy. Okay, then I think you would like um Smith Um, and maybe Jake's house. Okay, I would take those two for you. I'll give us send you some stuff, Okay, okay. Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production of My Heart Media and Katie Kurk Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by dar at Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie correct dot com. You can also find me at Katie Correct on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,