Dissecting the Alex Anthopoulos 'Exit Interview' and more

00:00:21
Speaker 1: Hello, Everyone's episode ninety six of the Hamor Territory Podcast. I am your host, Brad Roling, coming to you in our traditional Sunday evening time slot, and I am joined as I always am by Scott Coleman. Scott, it's kind of the first episode of the offseason. It is for you and I. How are you feeling on a Sunday evening?

00:00:37
Speaker 2: You Brad, Good to be on with you on this Sunday night. It's a little different. No, it's first weekend of October and the Braves do not have any baseball games left to play. A little different. I mean, seriously, you could go back to twenty seventeen was the last time the Braves really didn't have anything to play for this early in the calendar month. But I think as we as we talked to through and kind of the aftermath of a very very very challenging season wrapping up a couple of nights ago, I think it was time. I think mentally it was nice to have a little bit of a breather from just the grind of what this season ultimately turned into. But alast we're here. If you're a longtime listener, back on the Battery Power Days, Talking Chop Days. We do podcasts twelve months out of the year, and we are going to keep rolling. Maybe not as frequent as we do during the season because as we know, there's just not a ton of stuff to do once the game's end. But we are here and there is quite a bit to talk about on the show today.

00:01:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we should say at the top of the show if you are finding us or a new listen, we are part of the Foul Territory network of podcasts. Check out the entire network of shows, the flagship and on down. We are one of several team based shows that continues to grow in a good way. Please subscribe to us at ham A Territory anywhere you find your podcast. We are on Apple and Spotify of course, and then we're also on all the other audio platforms, and we're on YouTube where if you want to watch which Scott and I talk in visual formats, you certainly can do that. And you alluded to we've actually did two kind of rapid reaction shows after the season ended for the Braves this past week. Scott and I did the funeral episode basically on the night of the loss, and then our colleagues Sean and Stephen came back with their own takeaways a few days later. And I'll say this, I mean, we could talk a little if you wanted to. We don't have to do this about like the ongoing playoffs. Some of the people are really excited about that. We are talking after two games of Mets Phillies, which have been completely bonkers. We're recording this after the Phillies even things up. The Mets cannot play a normal baseball game, So it's not just the Braves involved with the Mets. The Mets have been playing these absolutely insane game. Almost sores got all these incredibly insane games the last few days. But I'm still watching baseball when you and I still like to watch baseball. So this is one of it's for Braves fans. It's obviously quite painful to watch Mets Phillies. And I joked or not so joked, that I was ready for a group disqualification at some point in the series, like some event not too catastrophic where you get injuries, just one of those things where like let's have everybody forfeit. I'd be a great.

00:03:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like nine days in a row of rain, or like a crazy power outage at both stadiums. I don't know, whatever it is, whatever it takes to make life difficult on the Phillies and the Mets, so we would take it. You know, National League playoffs a little interesting. You of course have New York in Philadelphia. You have the Dodgers, who I'm guessing our listeners don't have a ton of love for, and then the Padres, who I kind of like. I mean, of course they're on the West Coast where I am. I don't like them as much because they just beat the Braves, but pretty clearly for me, I'm rooting for the San Diego Padres.

00:03:38
Speaker 1: And then I guess on the American.

00:03:40
Speaker 2: League side, like anybody, but the Yankees is cool with me. And you know, so far, through the first couple of days of the division rounds, there's been some good baseball, and I guess from a neutral perspective, it's been fun to watch.

00:03:53
Speaker 1: Yes, and I'll keep watching it. It's the point we might we might talk about some stuff. Maybe we'll prove the World Series like we won't do tons of like daily play I'll coverage on the podcast. But there you go. That's where we are. As we recorded this on Sunday. But look, this podcast is mostly in fact, you know, I would say the vast majority of it's going to focus on the comments from Alex Enthopolis and Brian Snicker. On Friday, they kind of did an exit interview. I'm not sure if the Braves call up that. That's kind of the NBA lingo, like when the season ends, the next day or the day after that, everyone comes in, everyone talks to the media. It's just a formal thing that happens. And Brian and Alex talked I believe on zoom. So I've Scott, I have heard this audio. We've seen the video. We can't share it with you. It's not like one of those publicly available things, so like we could just drop thirty minutes of audio. But we did listen to it, and there's some stuff to talk about, not a ton of like outright news. There is one thing that I would describe as like actually pretty newsy, and that is the fact that Alex said pretty plainly that the Braves are could playing to exercise the three kind of high profile club options they have at their disposal. Technically they have until five days after the World Series, so they don't This is not official. At this point, something goes crazier changes. They don't have to do this, but he basically said, they're going to be picking up Marcel Zuna, Travis Darnaut and Aaron Bummer and we'll go I guess in order. Scott. Isn't it crazy that Marcelo Zuna's option became a no brainer pick up? Because if you said that to me two years ago, I would have laughed in your face. It was like we were all assumed that was going to be the end of the line at the end of the season, but he's been so good the last two years that it became obvious in the other direction.

00:05:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it sure felt like it was one of those options where we were going to be counting down the days until the Braves could rid themselves of that contract. And almost two full seasons later, we of course know what Marcel has done for this team, brought his career back from basically the dead, and for as good as he was on the whole in twenty twenty three, Marcel was actually even better this past year, and that was with him cooling down quite a bit down the stretch the last couple weeks in September, so there's probably a bigger discussion about the braves and roster construction and the DH and the outfield situation and what Ronald Acunya Junr Is going to be able to do and what where a Slayer is going to be able to do. But at least as we sit here today in the first week of October, I think it is a no brainer that you pick up Marcell's option for sixteen million and then you kind of move around some other pieces to make it all fit.

00:06:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, to your point, it's probably going to be its own episode. How complicated the DH outfield situation is because they currently have two dhs on their roster making big money in Ozuna and Solaire and then running my out to DH two. So that's going to be a discussion, and maybe we'll talk to trade stuff and look, they could pick up Marcell's option and then trade him. That is a very possible thing that could happen. If the market is such where no one is itching to trade for Hari Hilaire, they might look around and say, all right, what about Marcel's their value there, and that would not be probably received too favorably because to your point, he was as I've said, many times the only guy on the team offensively who outperformed or alwayst lipped up to his pre expectations offensively. But that's his own show. But certainly end a winner at sixteen million dollars from Marcel and we'll leave it there for now. Darnau pretty much always seemed like a lock too, unless he was going to retire. It's eight million dollars. It's not nothing, but Travis as I'm I've taken to saying it is the best number two catcher in the sport. Basically, he should be a starter. He's better than like fifteen stars in the league. He's very good. He is older. I guess we should mention the name of Drake Baldwin just in this conversation. What do you make of that? I mean, again, this is this is not could be its own show later on. But they have Sean Murphy who they're committed to. Darnau and maybe their best prospect are all at the same position.

00:07:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's going to be interesting to see what the Braves do with Drake Baldwin. Now, if the name Drake Baldwin is not super familiar to listeners, Baldwin has rapidly risen up the prospect rankings for the Braves by most national outlets. Baldwin is a top fifty prospect, if not top thirty, and he looks like he's going to have a real chance to be a very legitimate everyday catcher in the major leagues. He is solid defensively based on the scouting reports that I've seen and read from the good guys at Battery Power, and offensively he's had a great year splitting time in the highest levels of the minor leagues. So the fact that Braves have Sean Murphy, who I believe is under contract for four more years, and I know that Murphy is a divisive player, and with good reason, because the fact was Sean Murphy stunk like Capitol letters stunk this past season, but the two years before that he was a five war catcher, and those don't exactly grow on trees. You mentioned Darnault kind of a no brainer. Eight million dollars is not nothing, but for what that guy means to the clubhouse, and especially at a position like catcher, which has such a high injury rate, it felt very, very likely that Darnault was going to be sticking around for at least one more year, and we will see if they do anything to either free up a path for Drake Baldwin. They could use Baldwin in a trade this winter, but for all intents and purposes, it seems very likely that Travis will be with the Braves in twenty twenty five and we'll have probably a similar role to what he's had the last couple of years.

00:09:19
Speaker 1: One of the things that somebody actually asks this, and this is a sidebar two, like could Baldwin be up next year even if Murphy and Arnoultra on the team, And my answer basically was no. The only way I could possibly see that would be if they cleared out DH entirely and started using DH as a catch all, which there again that would require multiple traits, so I would be surprised. But that again, we'll do a kind of a catcher reset at some point this winter and talk about Murphy, because as much as I will defend Murphy, he was not good to your point this year. But yeah, dar'n know, eight million dollars in the end is pretty obviously yes for the Braves. If he wants to play it seems like he probably does. Eight million dollars was a lot of money for a lot of people. And there you go the last one, Scott, let's try it not do twenty minutes on this Aaron Bummer is being brought back at seven point twenty five million dollars, and I would say predictably and immediately the backlash occurred on social media from fans. We have been higher on Bumber pretty much the entire time, but I mean, I know you saw what I saw. People don't liked Aaron Bummer, and that maybe includes Brian Snicker. We've joked about that, but he's not really used him as a high leverage reliever. I'll just give you a couple of stats before we dive into the reaction here. Aaron Bummer had a two point two three fifth this year. That is elite. He was literally a top ten in warm on lift left end of believers this year. Like he was he was quite good. I know its era wasn't like incredible, but it was still a way three point five Like that's a perfectly fine, too good era. So I guess he's just one of these guys forever that people just don't like. But for me, he's worth seven million dollars, Like it's not that controversial. I don't even think.

00:10:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, there's always a player with the fan base who so I think unfairly gets a reputation or whatever it is, and I think Aaron Bummer was that player, kind of a lightning rod. He's up there with Charlie Morton, Sean Murphy, Orlando Arcia, you know met. You laid out the stats. Aaron Bummer, statistically speaking, not even this is not Brad and I's opinion here. Statistically speaking, Aaron Bummer was one of the top ten left handed relievers in baseball last season. Had a crazy strikeout to walk ratio. You mentioned a fip an X tip of about two point three. The guy's really good. And the one thing that works against Bummer is he gives up a lot of contact on the ground and sometimes that can lead to inflated batting average on balls and play. That's something I think Bummer carried like a four to twenty five babbit against this past season, which is crazy. And look, man, Bummer had a couple of bad moments and bad games, especially early in the season, which I think is why it kind of stuck with fans. But no reliever is perfect, other than maybe Ryce sele Iglasias and for seven million bucks. It feels like a lot for a reliever, and it is, but you know, the Braves have also been pretty bad at developing relievers in recent years. It's really something I think the organization could stand to get better at. There's not a lot of homegrown, cheap talent in the bullpen, and that's something that Alex has spent on and apparently, based on his comments this past week, they're going to bring back Bummer for seven million and as long as he has a larger role next year, I'm fine with it. But I would like to see Bummer get more than just like mop up duty or you know, the fourth inning of a blowout, because he has shown that he is quite good whenever he's on the mound.

00:12:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll move on. But you compared him in our document, I think you're right about this to what happened with Joeanmennez the previous year, where Jimenez was like pretty obviously good, I didn't fully trust him. He came in this year, was fantastic and was suddenly used in high leverage. Whether that was a conversation that had to be had between Alex instead or whatever to say, Hey, this guy's good, you might want to use him. Bummer's kind of the same thing and also relevant here too. Things Number One, at some points people are going to adjust and they just haven't yet to like what monetary figures actually mean. Seven million dollars is not like a crazy amount of money in the modern landscape of baseball. Number Two, Alex has not exactly been afraid of payroll in the last couple of years. To their credit, Liberty Media has spent the payroll is going up every year. Alex already says, we'll talk about later on this episode, it's going to go up again. So like they're not. It's not taking away something that's going to go up that you could use for somewhere else. I understand it, like in somewhat of a reality, resources are finite. But I don't think that Alex is going to be limited because they're bringing back Aaron Bubber. I don't think that's going to be a thing.

00:13:54
Speaker 2: So as long as the rest of the roster is in really good shape, no issues with spending on the bullpen. Seriously, I mean, if if there's an area of a team that can wreck and otherwise really good roster in season, it's the bullpen because games that should have been won four to three end up being five to four losses. Games that should have been blowout wins turned into very close games where you really get pedal to the metal the whole time. It's something that is fine in my eyes to invest in as long as the rest of your roster is good. And as we'll probably talking about a little bit tonight, there are some areas of the roster that absolutely need improving. And again, as long as it's not a one for one proposition, I'm fine with spending the money on the bullpen.

00:14:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a philosophical thing that Alex has just done. Like Alex has been spending on on bullpen almost I would say, even more than I would And we've talked about that in the past, like, for instance, some of the deals that have that have objectively worked out, like taking on a Glaciers was a lot of money and they took on. They took that on, they've paid him as they're not afraid of spending money on the bullpen. It's worked, I mean, the result, it's been very good results. They both a team wisely, and one more major note and we'll move on on the Aaron Bummer front. As a left handed reliever, AJ Mincher is a free agent, so he might be back. That could happen, and we'll circle back to that at some point. But it's like you have the dominant lefty reliever on your roster already and that mentor's been for the last couple of years. You have Dill Lee, he's there. That's a nice safe you bug at the have too, but you need more than one lefty and Air Mumber is a pretty good and hopefully Aj we'll be back too. But it's a big TVD at this point. All right, Scott, let's move on to the rest of what Alex and Brian had to say. But first, or from our partners at Fell Territory.

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00:16:28
Speaker 1: All right, Scott, We talked about the pitching a little bit with Aaron Bummer and just how good things were for the pitching. We'll probably do a deep dive on that in general. But Alex, I'm sure you listened to this too. It was funny. I think he mentioned that they led Beliga in the ra about fifteen times in a half hour. He was not shy about talking about how good the pitching was, and he's correct for the record.

00:16:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, fifteen times might be light, Yeah, yes, And it's it's important to I think naturally as fans we kind of focus on the bad and the negative. Sometimes it's worth pointing out that this was arguably the best pitching staff the Braves have had in I mean decades.

00:17:06
Speaker 1: Seriously talk to about them, like by the numbers. Sure, I get it, like that some of the names do not match up with some of the names that you know when you're younger. In particular, the guys that they're on the team seem like these godlike figures, all these things, and I get it. And losing Strider the first week of the season or whatever it was like that would have seen unthinkable and we're guilty of that too. We did previews on our on our old show, and it was like, not that it was a weakness. We talked about it being a strength, but obviously the offense was supposed to be the strength of the team. And in the end, it was the best pitching staff in baseball and an all time great staff. I mean they led the league just for the backup Alex in not only era but also in Fangraft's War, which is the over arching staff for the full pitching staff Answrake out Rape, they led. They led the Vaders in runs allowed if you're just into the raw numbers like that, everything up and down the board. They were top three in both starters and believers, like they were that good. And you know, some of it's pr if you're Alex, like you don't want to come. I'm sure sure he thought about this. I actually want to get your reaction to someone who's a little bit less hard into these things than I am, and somebody less press conferences. But it felt like Alex's tone in general was like, obviously, nobody's happy there. It wasn't as somber as it could have been. He kept kind of spinning it back to what went well. He gave an answer that maybe we'll reference later to about the offense that was not wrong and that he basically kept blaming it all the injuries. He didn't really get into the approach stuff that we that you and I and others have been taking issue with. But it felt like it was almost intentional for Alex to come in and just do a little bit of a spin, not a crazy way, but like put some positivity and just kind of know like, hey, we're not bad everywhere. We had some bad luck, and I understood that approach. I think sure, Yeah, I think. I mean, Alex is a very seasoned executive at this point. Yeah, and he's paid very well to bring nuance and reason to his decision. I mean, obviously we would not want some crazy fan making all the decisions for this organization, as fun as that might be. Bring out, bring John Coppolala back and just starts swinging forty five deals of winter with no real plan.

00:19:13
Speaker 2: But hey, it worked out in the regal.

00:19:15
Speaker 1: Be great for us and content if you were just if all we wanted was content, copy was great at that you would just provide things.

00:19:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, I thought Alex, you know, he talked for a while and I thought it was pretty forthcoming. And as a GM, you obviously cannot always say every single thing that's in your mind. But on the pitching front, he is absolutely right. This was a fantastic pitching staff really since day one. They did it without Spencer Streider and without Aj Minter, who coming into the year was I would say probably their number two reliever overall based on his track record, and they were fantastic. And we don't have to rehash the same talking points we've had for six months, but basically every night once spent Schwellenbach joined the rotation. The rotation gave the Braves a chance to win nearly every single night for what five months, four and a half months, and that is something that very few teams can say. And we'll see what shakes out with the rotation this winter, but at least on paper, assuming health, they look like they're in pretty good shape, with a couple of holes of course to fill over the next few months.

00:20:25
Speaker 1: Even my favorite or maybe less than favorite stat about the Braves going eleven and sixty when they give up four or more runs, famously, that was all they allowed, four more runs, a lot fewer games, fit for fewer games this year than they did last year. Like the pitching was undoubtedly much much better this year, it just the office was that much worse and that's what led to everything else. A quick one here. Alex unsurprisingly said they were kind of playing to be deliberate and careful with both Lacunya and Strider as they come back. No definitive timetables, Like I know people always want timetables, but executives hate giving those timetables. They just don't want to do that. There's no upside for him to be like, yeah, opening day, we'll see you there. Like, unless you're one hundred percent sure, you don't say that. It makes for some interesting choices. I mean, well, this will probably become a theme when we talk about Max Freed at some point in more depth. And even Morton as he may or may not retire, maybe probably will be retiring. But still but Strider, obviously, as soon as he is back, is going to be a part of your rotation. But do you plan on him in the same way you would have gone into this last season as your unquestioned ace. Obviously you have Chris Sale, that's helpful, but you could say this, they have four starters if you include Stryder that are kind of written in ink. You know, you got Strider, Sale, Lopez who was great this year, and Schwellenbach. And it's like, all right, we're cooking with gas. All you need is one more. But I know that, I will say, and I think you'll agree with me. You can never have too much pitching. So like, you need more than five starters, and that's with four guys who are healthy, and one of them at this moment in time in October is not so.

00:22:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the way they're going to approach Spencer Strider with the roster construction is I mean it might be my biggest question for the offset that's not true, maybe second or third. Uh, the outfield is a massive question. And then shortstop as well, but pretty clearly shortstop, outfield starting rotation because I was looking into this a bit. There's a pretty mixed bag of pitchers who have undergone two elbow surgeries, whether it's Tommy John or what did Strider have, like the internal brace procedure. Yeah, so as a reminder, Strider had Tommy John, I believe in college at Clemson. That's why he dipped down draft boards quite a bit and then the Brave struggled and the rest is history. But the fact is that coming back from not only Tommy John once but then another elbow surgery and what six years for him, it's a pretty short list of pictures who have done it and come back and then completely successful. Now, at the same time, Strider has youth on his side. He is already a phenomenal pitcher, So even if his talent level drops off a bit coming back from the surgery, he is still a very good arm. But the fact is, man until he starts throwing regularly in January February and of course in spring training. I just don't think there is any way to know what he's going to be able to give you next season. If he's going to be limited to start the year, what's the velocity like? Do they feel like he can throw one hundred and eighty innings, because if they don't, they might have to hold him back for the first month. All of these are things I am sure the front office has talked about, and I'm very, very interested to see what they do to bolster Sale, Lopez, Schwellenbach, because if those three are healthy, they're great, But man, Schwalenbach just blew past his record innings in a season. Ronaldo Lopez had elbow and shoulder issues, albeit minor ones, but did have issues during this past year as a starter. And then Chris Sale we all know extremely durable for six months, and then of course the last week of the season he has back spasms and it can't go in the playoffs.

00:24:18
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of.

00:24:19
Speaker 2: Questions in this regard, But let's hope that Strider is back and close to the guy who we all just love pitching so much, absolutely and we'll do a deep dive on this too, but you can't ignore and I know fans are not going to forget guys like Smith Sholver's guys who was in a playoff start, like is still a very young talented guy, Herson Walters the first round pick who they're excited about, like they have guys in the system. But honestly, a lot of organizations, I would say the majority of organizations you'd probably be going into next year penciling in at least one of the young guys into a wrot chasan spot. And I don't think the brateist want to necessarily do that.

00:24:53
Speaker 1: They might come up, You'll probably see them at some point, but I think they probably would be more comfortable going with go with five guys who have done it before and have those guys be six, seven and eight, that kind of thing. But uh, we'll come back to that at a later date. Okay, Well, I guess we could have done more of a more of a Freed Morton discussion. Let's put that on hold, just because I don't think Alex instead said anything notable about those guys, Like Alex gave the answer you give about Max Freed, like we love Max kind of thing like, but like, you're not going to glean anything from what was said on that call about those guys. I know, I know Max's postgame interview was being dissected. He was pretty emotional. You know, that could mean he's leaving it. Comedi's not just to say this out loud, and maybe you can push back if you want to. I have not spoken to a human being that covers the sport that fixed Max coming back to Atlanta. But nobody's closed the door either. No one said it's like zero percent and uh, that's actually curve ball Scott. But did you see like the floida somebody like I think it was like spa track to like like a projection of what it was going to be to bring him back. I will say it was a more modest number than I thought, and a lot of the reaction from Braves fans and I think right so was like, wait, if that's it, they better pay this guy. And obviously we don't know. I think it was what was like it was like six and one point fifty or whatever. It was six Yeah, it was six years.

00:26:10
Speaker 2: Just in case folks missed it, spoke Track said their projection for Max Freed was a six year, one hundred and twenty four million dollar contract.

00:26:21
Speaker 1: I believe that is cheaper than I thought it was going to be. Again, it's it's one person's projection, So we're not saying this is going to be happening. But would you agree? I mean for me, that was like, oh, if that's what it is, Alex might actually do it.

00:26:31
Speaker 2: Yes, if it was six years at twenty two million dollars a year, all right, let me say this. If Max Freed's side was looking for six years and just over twenty million dollars a year, and they had then for the last winter or two, and presumably the two sides have talked, I'm pretty confident it would have been a deal.

00:26:50
Speaker 1: I tend to agree.

00:26:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, something tells me the way that picture salaries have exploded on the open market, Max Freed is not going to get a six year, one hundred and twenty two million dollar deal. You know, Aaron Nola is a similar pitcher. They're not perfect one for one comps, but Nola got seven years and one hundred and seventy million. You know, there's there's I think with pitching. It is such it is in such short supply these days, good reliable starting pitching. It feels like no matter who signs Max, they're probably going to have to overpay. And I ultimately don't think it's going to be the Braves, but I would agree that of course, the door is always open, and all of a sudden you just kind of come together and go, you know what, Max wants to stay in Atlanta.

00:27:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we saw last winter there were some high profile pitchers, the Scott Boris clients that didn't get contracts that they were hoping to get. And you know, you never know what the agent looks for and all of that. So maybe Freed and his agent have a number in mind that they think they're going to get, and that numbers not available to them, and that opens the door to return, either on a short term deal or a deal like this, or a six for one thirty deal that I think both sides might find agreement in at some point. So I know it's brutal to think about a guy as good as he has been that might just leave for nothing, but that's what happens sometimes. One more topic here, at least a major topic, is that Alex and Snitt both said pretty matter of factly that they're expecting to bring back the entire coaching staff short of retirement or something else. It seemed like it would take a different factor for them to move on from anyone. And of course we've been pretty openly discussing Kevin Seizer, and you know, Alex did kind of more than once circle back, and it's I would say, overlap with the overall discussion of the offense this season. He just so heavily leaned the leaned of the injuries and the absences from the offensive decline that it seems like he's not particularly and look, part of this might be a pr dance. Again, not to overemphasize this, but like, if you know you're going to bring back your hitting coach, you probably don't want to go in hard on your team's open approach on a zoom call with the media, So like, what's that, what's that decision's made you kind of have to not go crazy about. So maybe he thinks differently than what he said on this call, but he blamed their injuries and we've acknowledged like the injuries are a huge part of it the whole time. Like it is both in my opinion, I think in yours too, and I'll go up to you. But the injuries are a huge, huge, huge factor. You lose Akunya. Guys are her all year long. Rudy has gone for the Lest we all know this understanding if you are a dire Brace fan listening to this podcast. But for me, and I think for you, the story does not end at the injuries because even when guys were playing, they other than Azuna were not playing at their normal level. And there is a debate that's happening. And look, people are smart that I think are smarter or smarter than I am, or like, no, it's not they're not out on sights here. There was a more mixed reaction that I thought for people that I tend to trust. But uh, my first reaction was whoa, this is not gonna go over. Well, what do you think?

00:29:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've I had many thoughts on Kevin Sitzer. I'm fine with bringing him back for one more year, but they have to change something internally with approach. This cannot be in twenty twenty five a team that can only hit home runs and do nothing else because as evidence of the last couple of postseasons and when everything went wrong this year, it is very hard to live and die by the home run ball and reach the goals that a team is trying to reach. And to be fair, Kevin Sitzer, there is not a hitting coach on planet Earth who could turn Orlando Arcia into a good hitter.

00:30:52
Speaker 1: I think, sorry, Orlando, if you're listening to Honestly, that kind of folds in because I don't know, I don't if I'll said this, but somebody, somebody did. You know you could also say Kevin Sidser presided over the best offens in league history right the previous season, and guys like Almando Arcia had much better seasons, like he had a career year under Kevin Seiser a year ago. So I think it's fair, and I don't think that we've ever said this. To be fair to us, we've never said Kevin Sicht's a bum who's no idea what he's not. That's not what we've done. Like he does get credit and deserves credit for them being as good as they were. He's been around for a long time. We talked about a few weeks ago, he's been a head coach for like ten years, Like it's been a long time. He was there before Snith, So like, I get it, but I've covered enough sports to know, like when things go wrong like this, and you know the manager and the general manager slash Pobo are safe oftentimes, like you get a staff shakeup and that's not happening. I guess you can say it's to their credit, you can say it's patient or whatever. I'm with you. I'm not outraged by it at all. Like I'm fine with Kevin Sidzer. I think he's an established guy who's fine. I just think that way to signal that you're going to change something is to make that change. But if you're not gonna do that, I agree with you. You kind of have to go into the off season with a different kind of plan, and there's there's more nuance. Like I know, you know Sarah's may comments that I want you to talk about because you found them on Earth them but it was basically finding some approach issues that like the league kind of adjusted to the Braves and they didn't seem to adjust back, which that kind of comes down to organizational approach more than individual players.

00:32:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Ineno, sarahs who for my money, is one of the better analysts in baseball. You Eno was asked about the Braves as struggles and basically to the tune of why were the Braves historic last year? But basically everybody struggled this season, and again even with the injuries, Akunya was having a down year, Riley was having a down year. I mean, it wasn't just like the injuries were the only thing that wrecked this team. Across the board, production was down. But Eno was tweeting and these are probably three or four days old now, but I'm sure you could find them. But Eno pointed out that his feeling was in twenty twenty three, the Braves saw a ton of sliders and not as many fastballs, and ENO's kind of hypothesis was that the Braves this year and last were really sitting on sliders. And in twenty twenty three, Atlanta was the second best team in baseball against the slider, but this year they were sixth worst. So from second best to twenty fourth best, that's pretty drastic. And to back up that point, Eno pointed out that this year the Braves saw the third most low in the zone fastballs of any team, And that would make sense because if you're thinking about how a pitch comes, if it's a low fastball and a slider. They're going to have pretty similar trajectories towards the plate, but of course one stays straight and one hangs a left or right depending on who's throwing it. And how many times, Brad did we talk about on the show where the Braves would just swing through eight million meatballs right down the middle of the plate, they would not be able to punish a ninety two mile an hour fastball on the zone, and then they would strike out or weekly ground out or whatever it is. I think it's pretty clear that after being so good in twenty twenty three, the league made an adjustment to the Braves offensively, and it's on Kevin Seitzer and the front office to then adjust to the adjustments. And pretty clearly, at least from our untrained eyes, the Bridves really did not do a whole lot of adjusting in twenty twenty four. And let's hope that they make some changes for the better next year.

00:34:50
Speaker 1: Yep, that's a good way to put in and we will digiven even more to this. This probably its own show too. I know I'm teasing a lot of things in the future, but we have a lot of time. And also one of the big questions, you know. Of course there are personnel questions and roster production questions, but one of the big questions is kind of like, what the heck happened to the offense? And we'll kind of combine forces with Steve and Shawn and do a little bit more info gathering. But I think it was a good note that you found with with you know, and it makes sense to me, having watched this team all season long, that that's what I've spoken kind of speak to that, And yes, to your point, Kevin Seizer cannot fix Orlando Arcia or g Orchella or whoever you want to say that that should have been playing for the Braves. That's also a more than fair point to make by Alex, even if he's kind of incentivized to do so. Before we sign off, Scott a couple of other like more shorty nuggets that came out of this. I wish I could play the answer for me for people, but it's we're not allowed to do that. I don't have the for sharing license there. Alex did not really give what I would describe as a resounding endorsement of Orlando Arcia as the starter for next year. He didn't say he wouldn't be, but he definitely didn't say it would be. And I think that it's a good time to remind people that when they got Orlando, and when they paid Orlando the very small contract that they gave him, he was not supposed to be the full time shortstop. He played very well in twenty twenty three and that led to them being kind of okay with it going into twenty twenty four, but that did not happen this year, and it seemed to me, I don't know about you, that that seemed like the voice of a guy who did not want to have Orlando Arcia as a starting shortstop. He didn't say that, but like I said before, how positive all of his pr was, he did not give the endorsement he probably could have given to Orlando.

00:36:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:36:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, we will say improving shortstop is maybe the most difficult thing to do in the major leagues because the best shortstops are usually making a billion dollars in free agency, or they're very young, and you couldn't even dream of trading for them because teams don't just give away shortstops. They don't just give away young starting pitchers. It's not like you're trying to find a corner outfielder, and presumably you have two dozen candidates who could be a fit. So it's going to be easier said than done. That being said, I think you have to improve the position. I know Orlando is pretty solid defensively, but you know he's not like Andrelton Simmons, who is like single handedly saving you a run every single night. Yep. And the offense is just so unbelievably bad it's painful to watch.

00:37:28
Speaker 1: We've come full circle. We come full circle. Do you remember like I used to get I used to get screamed at for suggesting, Hey, guys, he's not a very good hitter if you look at his history. Well, he's hitting for Okay, he's hitting for us, and that's true. Look, he had a good year last year. Alex hit sneak in. He was an All Star last year, which did happen. He made the All Star team in twenty twenty three. He's never been an All Star little player, all due respect, and look, he's being paid like a backup infielder. That's what he is. And that's not a shot at him or if he's starting shortstop for the Marlins, It's totally fine. Like if he's a major, big starter on a team, he's that good of a player, like he can he can go out, he can go out there. If he plays every day for you, he's gonna he's gonna be a two win player, one and a half win player. That's totally fine. There's a market for that. If you're a contender, you don't want him to do that. And look, we even talked about it last year, and I feel like we were proven to be right how they should have at least been looking at shortstop last winter, even coming off of that year from Orlando, which did not seem sustainable to us, and we were right on that. But now you've put a year on film, so to speak, and you can see they can't do that again. And the only thing I'll defend there is Alex did say like he wasn't supposed to be hit I mean, actually the surprise he said this, as Candilis did, he wasn't supposed to be hitting fifth. Like the whole idea of Orlando Arcia is that he can hit ninth for you every day and not kill you, and you can you can live with one of those guys and I've said that, I know you have too, like you can have you can't have a line up. I know the race have tried this. You can't have a line up of all stars at every position. It's hard to do that even the best teams. But when the rest of your team crumbles and suddenly you're starting shortstop, is your guy batting sixth every day? Like that becomes a glaring, glaring issue.

00:39:10
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think that maybe the position with the most uncertainty on this roster for next year is shortstop. You know, we can at least kind of outline a picture for the rotation and the outfield, even if there are some questions there, but shortstop. Again, it's going to be very very interesting to see what Alex does to address the position, or hopefully address the position, because yeah, I if opening day comes around in Orlando or starting shortstop, I am going to be very very very pick your word of choice, I just like nonplussed.

00:39:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, you.

00:39:50
Speaker 2: Annoyed, angered, in shock, disbelief, whatever, whatever you want. We have seen it for two years now. They have to be editor at shortstop somehow. It might require trading some of your young prospects, It might require overpaying and free agency. We'll see what they decide to ultimately do. But I just can't sign up for another one hundred and sixty two games of Orlando and shortstop.

00:40:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe they were hoping at some point in the middle of this season that it would be Nacho Alvarez, but he was not ready and they kind of announced that with authority after that, didn't bring him, didn't bring him back up when they could have at the end of the year, like they knew that was not going to be. And I'm not saying he's gone forever, but I'm with you, there is a world of which Arcia is on the team and it's a backup because again he's making back up money. That's totally fine, and he could play third, he could play second, he could puestion. That's actually a very useful player to have on your team, hopefully not starting every day. I mentioned this earlier. But payroll, I'm going to quote Alex here. I know it's not going down. I expect it to rise, but to what level we'll spend the office isn't going through that so pretty defendive that they're not going to go down and payroll and the brands were top five and in the majors in payroll if you go back several years. And I saw some of this in the last couple of days on Twitter, and I was I was vexed by it. I will raise my hand. I used to be quite skeptical of Liberty spending money, and they didn't used to spend like this. In my slight defense, they've given us no reason in my opinion, to think that they're penny pitching in the last couple of years like they are spending now like a team that's a top five team in baseball. And it helps that they print money. I mean, they are top five and attendants every year basically the last several years. So that's part of this too. But as a reformed skeptic, like, look, I'm not saying that they're gonna go out and pay everyone that can poss like Wan Soto is probably not gonna quat not coming. But I have a hard time criticizing Liberty for their payroll right now in the way that alex Is navigated, because they're spending thre hundred million dollars a year like it is what it is.

00:41:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the Braves have been a luxury tax team the last two years. They I mean, they would have to really trim down some money, which does not seem like what they're going to do to get under it.

00:42:06
Speaker 1: It will go again. He literally said, I know it's not going to go down. It doesn't get more demand than that. It's not going to go down.

00:42:13
Speaker 2: So from the mouth of the opinion that matters, it's not going down. We'll see what it ultimately ends up being. The Braves do have a decent amount of money coming off the books this year breed Morton, some of the dead money they had from the Jared kellmc trades. You know that there will be some money to spend, and ultimately we just don't know. And Alex is always famous for saying, well, I'm not going to tell you how much money i have to spend.

00:42:40
Speaker 1: No, he will not tell us.

00:42:42
Speaker 2: But I think, because sure, there are some questions with the roster, but I think as long as Alex is correct and the payroll is at least going to go up somewhat, this should be a very competitive and well compensated roster six months from now.

00:42:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm noterned, and we'll see. I got in this argument with somebody the other day about like, actually through the lens of more you want to be surprised by this about Charlie Morton's salary the last couple of years, and how my point has been, Yes, twenty million dollars is a lot of money. I get that, but like it came with no long term risk and more importantly, it did not stop them from doing anything else right, which is the same thing about Aaron Umer we mentioned earlier. Oh I one more known an Aaron Bummer. Aaron Mumber was worth eight point eight million dollars this year according to Fangrafts. That's that's more than seven point twenty five million dollars on that anyway. I mean, okay, so I had said to even bring this up, what was your reaction to them, very very intentionally pointing out that Chris Sale could have pitched the NDS.

00:43:48
Speaker 2: In the middle of the night. Have you ever gotten up to go pee and like bang your toe on a door frame? That was my reaction to hearing, Oh, Chris Sale's back is good to go, right, fantastic love that I mean, in a choking aside, It's good that it's it seems like it's not going to become like now a chronic back issue for Sale, as evidence by the fact he did not pitch the last two weeks of the season. It's pretty clear that these were extreme backspasms. I know, there's always the contingency of the fan base. Oh he saw suck it up. Oh I thankfully I have never dealt with backspasms. But I had people respond in my mentions who have dealt with bad backspasms, and they basically said, you have no idea what you're talking about. They are incredibly painful and debilitating if not addressed.

00:44:50
Speaker 1: And to even like live much less go pitch baseball game, right, That's that's number one, that's insane. And number two, I mean, this is probably the same people that were praising Chris Sale for being what's the less Chris Chris Sale is kind of a I don't want to say this. He's known as for his passion. We'll say he's he's He's not a guy that you would even I wouldn't say anybody would do this. But even if you were trying to pick out the guy on the Braves roster that would be least likely to like, you know, mail it in with injury, it would be Chris Sale. Like the guy's of maniac by all accounts in a good way. Competitively, you think that guy didn't want to pitch when the season, there's no chance that guy did not want to pitch. And my favorite conspiracy and my favorite, I mean least favorite Phillies fans thought Chris Sale didn't pitch the last day of the season to save his e ra a lead and his young candidacy. Chris Sale, come on, anyway, come on. I was someone at tagged me in that and some Phillies thing and I was like, guys, I wish I hadn't seen that. I wish don't don't send me that stuff again. It's me speaking of subbing your toe. That was how I felt reading that reading that thread by Phillies fans anyway, it was funny. I understand people that were mad or frustrated. To your point, you were frustrated. It does suck. I do think that it's not just a showman thing by Alex to point that out. It is good that he will be prepared to do a full winter sail through more endings this year than he's thrown in a long time, and him being healthy ready to go for a full program this winter is a good thing. He had a fantastic season. Is it maddening because it wasn't just that. I mean, one time fans will know this, but like the last several years in a row, they've had just pitching crumble at the end of the season for like bizarre ways. It wasn't like just injury that you could kind of foresee, you know, when Max got sick, it lost like twenty pounds in like a week.

00:46:38
Speaker 2: Like that kind of crap, Like, yeah, it's you know, I do I have twenty pounds to lose, sure, Brad, but Max Freed does not have twenty pounds to lose, And of course he got I think Rick Kranit said it was like the nastiest stomach bug of all time, like three days before the playoffs started, and guys.

00:46:55
Speaker 1: Getting hit with comebackers and Charlie's ankle and Max just it's, uh, look, you gotta be lucky in baseball, and they've not been lucky in that particular area the last few years. It is what it is. But uh, yeah, I got all the reactions. I saw all the reactions to the sale news. I said that to the end of this podcast. For a reason, it's not really important or impactful as far as like, oh you can, but it was a I get that it stirred something and everyone. It was a little bit different.

00:47:21
Speaker 2: It felt like, yeah, it is not a small thing that, by all accounts, Chris Sale will go into the off season healthy and free of the back problems. He talked openly about how important it was last off season that it was basically his first healthy off season for workouts and conditioning and everything he does to get ready for a full one sixty two. It was the first time last winter that Sale had gone into it healthy in like five or six years. And clearly that matters to him because he was healthy up until basically the last day this past year, and let's hope another fantastic year on the horizon for Sale. Just brutal timing with the back spasms. But again, man, it's it's been par for the course the last couple of years.

00:48:07
Speaker 1: That's right, all right, Scott, Well, we've covered I think the gamut of what Alex and Snicker had to say on Friday as we're talking on this Sunday. If you want to read more, I know every everybody covered it. Battery Power did AJC did the Athletic did or Booman did am dot com. People had all their stuff, and but there you go. That's kind of the cliffs notes, and there's been I'm looking right now to make sure I'm not crazy. Nothing else is basically happened in the last two days, which is not a huge surprise because it's still that zone where until the World Series ends, it's kind of has to be quiet. What you could do is resign your own players. Last year, the Braves made some news with like bringing back Pierce Johnson quickly and Charlie Morton that kind of stuff, But they don't really have those guys this year, other than if they were to come to some weird agreement with Charlie to come back one more year for cheap or cheaper. That's kind of it. I mean, it's we're just kind of holding steady until the World Series ends and then the floodgates kind of opened. But we'll be here throughout anything else you want to say, Scott, and if not, please tell folks where they can find you on the internet.

00:49:07
Speaker 2: Nothing else. Thanks everybody for sticking with us. As the off season begins again, we were sincerely hoping that we wouldn't start doing these shows for three four weeks from now, but here we are. But yeah, good to do one of these with you, Brad. There was plenty to talk about from Alex and from snit and I'm sure we'll have more shows this upcoming week and yeah, so stay tuned and let's hope for a productive and bountiful off season ahead.

00:49:35
Speaker 1: We've been already passing around between the four of us some ideas and shows that we're going to do and all that stuff, So please stay tuned. You will not be disappointed for the price of zero dollars subscribing to this podcast. But we will be here, I would say, multiple times every week. And let's maybe like Christmas week will take off or something like that. But basically until then, we'll be here all the time. So please go ahead subscribe to Amateurbatory anywhere you find your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, a game, more on video sometimes with Scott and I I'll be twisting in the arms of Shawn and Stephen at some point to do some video just because I know everyone wants to see Shawn and Steven my video.

00:50:08
Speaker 2: Everyone.

00:50:09
Speaker 1: All I hear about in the streets of Atlanta is someday toll Shawn Agun video one day anyway, please subscribe to the podcast. Everybody. Follow us on social media as well at Hammer Territory on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, follow Scott, follow me if you want to. Thanks for being here, enjoy your week, See you all next time.