222 | The Universal Efficacy of CCPT: How to Address Doubters

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in child-centered,

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play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode, I received an email from Nicole in Indiana

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and I'm going to answer her question about very similar to

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yesterday's.

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She is working in private practice under a manager who does not believe CCPT is best.

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Du

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du

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du.

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All right.

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Here's, here's everything in full circle. Y'all.

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My, my life just goes in waves and the wave right now is

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supervisors, managers, bosses,

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people in authority roles and figures that are bucking clinicians

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wanting to be fully adherent to CCPT.

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I can't tell you the number of conversations, messages, emails, texts,

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everything I've had about this topic in the last like week or two.

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It's looney.

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All right. So Nicole, thanks so much for the email.

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I'll read parts of her email and then we'll talk through this together.

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I recently discovered your podcast and have absolutely fallen in love. Yay.

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So excited.

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I'm an LCSw working in private practice under a manager

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who does not believe CCPT is best for anything other than trauma

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by the way related aside,

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where did that notion even come from?

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CCPT is not good for anything other than trauma?

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I, I don't even know how that could be drawn as a conclusion, but ok, I digress.

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I wonder if you could point me in the direction of research that

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shows how CCPT compares to other types of therapy for children.

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Thanks so much.

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Well, Nicole, thank you for the email.

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Thank you for discovering CCPT and falling in love

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and thank you for wanting to be adherent even

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when a manager doesn't seem to be on board.

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So

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very similar to Deidre's question.

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Let's dive into this, although this is more about research.

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So this is kind of a piggy backing on yesterday.

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Not only are we going to be adherent to the model,

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but then we also want to have research that we can provide when there are

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questioners or

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nonbelievers. I don't know what you would call them.

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So

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I think I'm going to actually pivot a little bit and

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answer your question differently than what you actually asked Nicole.

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And so I hope that

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you'll forgive me for deviating a bit.

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So your question is specifically,

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I wonder if you can point me in the direction of research that

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shows how CCPT compares to other types of therapy for kids.

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No,

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but I will. I promise I'll answer your question just in a different capacity.

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What I want to do is point you in the direction

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that shows how CCPT works with every single issue.

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So I actually don't feel compelled or I don't think that it's valuable

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to show CCPT in comparison to other types of therapy.

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Please hear my heart and I really don't mean this in

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a,

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I don't know, an abrasive way,

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but I don't need to compare CCPT to other types of therapy.

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I need to have evidence that shows that CCPT will work with any issue

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with any child

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and we have evidence of that

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miles long.

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So I think it's actually much more helpful rather than saying, well,

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let's compare CCPT to fill in the blank.

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How about the CCPT work with this population?

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Does CCPT work with this issue?

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Does CCPT work with this diagnosis? What about this culture? What about this race?

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What about this age? What about?

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So let's talk about that because I think

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that actually gives you a much stronger foundation.

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You know,

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one of the weeks that we spend a lot of discussion on

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this in the coaching program is when we talk about evidence and efficacy

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and we talk about that for a reason because

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we have people that are constantly going to question us.

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We have people that are constantly going to want

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proof are going to contradict and say no,

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I don't think so or I just can't see how

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that will work or that isn't empirically supported or whatever.

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And

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let's be really clear it is

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we have over 100 years of research showing CCPT is effective.

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So Nicole to answer your question,

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I'm going to give you a really, really helpful resource. Actually, all of you

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get your pens and paper out

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because I'm holding it up, but you can't see me.

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So you're gonna have to write this down or pause me and do something.

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The book is Child-Centered Play Therapy Research.

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It is yellow,

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it has bubbles on the front

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and it is edited by Baggerly, Ray, and Bratton.

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So if that doesn't tell you something,

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Ray is

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this generation's most consistent

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publisher and researcher

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in the way of CCPT

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Bratton and Landreth are really the godfather and godmother of the model

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and Baggerly trained me directly.

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So if we're talking about three really credible people in our field,

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those are the three editors of this book.

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And

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my disclaimer is that I'm flipping pages so I can tell you

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this is from 2010.

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And so, you know,

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I know APT has very specific directives of when we present information,

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it has to be within the last five years.

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Ok. So is it 14 years old? Yes,

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but it doesn't, does it make the research any less effective?

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Does it make the research any less true?

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Does it change anything that's already been proven? No.

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And let's be frank for a second. Not that I'm ever anything but I know

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you, you, you get what you get with me y'all.

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So, you know, I guess maybe that's why you listen to me. I don't know.

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Here's, here's where I am with this

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research

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in recent years. I would even argue in the last decade

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in

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CCPT has been sorely lacking.

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And what I mean by that is, it's not that research isn't coming out on CCPT.

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It is,

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but it's being diluted

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and it's being

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convoluted

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and here's what I mean by that,

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it's CCPT plus

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it's CCPT minus,

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it's CCPT

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with such and such without this and that

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OK. It's no longer CCPT.

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Anything by Ray is fully CCPT, anything by Landreth, anything by Bratton,

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anything by Baggerly.

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It's CCPT through and through.

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And there are some other names. I'm not saying those are the only ones

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but, you know, with certain authors

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and certain studies, it's fully CCPT what has come out in the last 10 or so years.

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It's rarely exclusively CCPT.

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And

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I can't help but say

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if we don't look at the seminal works and we don't look at early research

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and we don't take that as credible just because it's not in the last five years,

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we're in trouble because if we look at what's come out in the last five or 10 years,

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we can't fall back on that at all

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because all of a sudden, we've lost our North Star here.

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CCPT

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is one thing.

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It's a way of being

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and it has a framework and it has grounding and it has a system

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and it has skills

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and if we do anything other than that,

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we can no longer call it CCPT.

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Therefore, I'm going to say that this book published in 2010

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is the most effective source for being able to combat

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any critics of the model. So Nicole and the rest of you,

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the other

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many thousands of you that are interested in this topic.

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OK, I'm going to read you some highlights from the contents

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and I won't read all of them because there's a lot.

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But I want you to hear what's in this book

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so that you have an understanding of CCPT's universal

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application.

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In other words,

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it works

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with everyone.

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CCPT has been proven effective

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with geriatrics.

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CCPT has been proven effective with adults.

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CCPT has been proven effective

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with

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people with TBIs traumatic brain injuries.

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CCPT has been effective, proven effective for people with

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Apraxia and

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all kinds of speech issues.

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This is not just for children,

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let's be really clear on that.

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We have seen CCPT proven across the lifespan.

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We have Apraxia we have Aphasia.

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We have all of these issues

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where I'm not able to sit down and talk

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to a therapist,

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but I can play.

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We know that this is the way that we connect emotionally

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no matter the age.

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So

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we have a wealth of information and data

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saying that CCPT works.

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So Nicole, I'm gonna share a couple of these from the contents and then

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all of you need to get the book. By the way, I don't get any kickbacks from that.

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I just own the book and I recommend it to my coaching people.

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I think if you need

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proof

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for anyone for a parent sitting in front of you in front of a parent consultation

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for a principal for a pediatrician,

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for a judge, for an attorney for a guardian ad litum,

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you name it.

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If somebody is questioning why you're doing what you're doing, how you're doing it,

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how do you know it works?

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What's the evidence that supports this

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come to this book?

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I don't know any other

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one stop shop for this. Now, can you go into Google?

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Can you go into your university system if you have access to that?

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And can you search child center play therapy plus issue

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and find research? Yes, I do it all the time.

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But this is a book that contains all kinds of stuff

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and you can just grab it off yourself and reference it.

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So here are some that are in here.

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The efficacy of CCPT with chronically ill children,

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CCPT with children who are witnesses of domestic violence,

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CCPT

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children

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with children who are post earthquake.

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So natural disasters,

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CCPT's effect on relationship stress

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CCPT on academic achievement, self concept and teacher, child relationships.

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CCPT with ADHD

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CCPT with learning disabled preadolescence.

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CCPT with Hispanic children,

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CCPT with aggression,

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CCPT

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with

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ADHD. There's another one,

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CCPT and child development,

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CCPT

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and

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Native Americans,

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Chinese parents, African Americans, Hispanics

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high school students as CCPT therapeutic agents with younger children.

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How interesting is that using

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high schoolers

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and watching the influence that that has on younger children,

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deaf and hard of hearing children,

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preschool children deemed at risk

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disadvantaged children,

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I can go on and on.

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So

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here's what I'm trying to say

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to all of you.

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The research is there,

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the research supports this,

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we have evidence all over the place for this working.

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So when someone says,

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well, no,

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CCPT is only effective with this or CCPT wouldn't work with

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that issue or CCPT hasn't been proven to address that kind of issue.

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I can almost guarantee you it has.

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So this book is a huge resource to start

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and then don't be afraid to search child-centered play therapy

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plus whatever the issue is.

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So your manager, your supervisor, your boss, your

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clinical director, whoever it is says,

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no, you, you really shouldn't use CCPT with

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anxious kids that there there's no,

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there's no research that shows that it'll work with anxiety,

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get on doctor Google

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and which can be dangerous. I know. But in this case, I recommend it

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type child-centered play therapy plus anxiety.

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Find all of the

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journal articles that have been published

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that show the reduction in anxiety, the increase in coping skills,

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the increase in emotional vocabulary, the increase in regulation,

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the change in behavior

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And you go back to that person and say actually,

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here's all kinds of support for CCPT with anxiety.

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I just had someone email me

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this week

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saying that her boss said she absolutely cannot use CCPT

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because it is not proven with children on the autism spectrum.

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And I almost fell out of my chair.

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I'm like, holy Moses, do you know how many articles I can find in six seconds

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that show its efficacy with children on the spectrum?

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Where in the world are you coming up with this?

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And I'm not saying that to be critical to the, the clinical director and the manager,

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I'm just saying

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there's such a lack of knowledge

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of what CCPT is and how it works and

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why it works and that it works on almost everything.

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So let's be really

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courageous. Let's be really bold, let's be really

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accurate in what we say.

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And let's provide information

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that is to the contrary of what people think when they say no, no, no, no CCPT isn't

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supported for that.

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Yes, it is. Here you go.

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We have to open people's eyes.

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CCPT works across the board

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universally. It works.

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All right, Nicole. Thank you so much for the email. I really appreciate that.

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If you all would like to reach out to me to ask a question, to say hello,

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to tell me a story,

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to share a playroom win.

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Just to

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say you're coming to Florida doesn't matter. Please email me

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brenna@thekidcounselor.com. I'd love to hear from you.

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You know how much you mean to me, you know, how much I care about. Y'all love you.

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We'll talk again soon. Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr

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Brenna Hicks. For more episodes and resources.

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Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.