Michael A. Talks Overcoming Tragedy and His Immediate Spark with Katie

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Welcome back, Happy Hour listeners. As you all know, it has been a crazy week and Tasia has been a very, very busy woman. So she's in a little fac she's taking a break, she's kicking her feet up hopefully relaxing. But don't worry because we have my other favorite, miss Katherine Lowe back, So Catherine, welcome, Thank you for joining us once again. How are you old hat? Old hat? Now? It was I'm so glad to be talking about this episode with you and being able to speak to our guests today because I needed to talk to somebody about this and talk to the man of the hour. Is gonna be awesome. So thanks for having you today. Yes, well, thank you. I'm so glad to have you back. And I wouldn't say an old hat. I would just say you're a favorite hat. You know, you're the one that you're our go to. But yes, as you mentioned, our guest today is an incredible one. He is. I'm telling you guys right now, if you didn't already fall in love with him on last night's episode, you will do so today because we have Michael A himself and you know, I know every week we're supposed to be doing these full blown recaps of the episodes, but quite honestly, there was so much that went down last night. There was obviously so much drama that we saw. But Michael's story is one I think that hit everyone in our hearts, and I really want to allow him the time to have this platform to talk more about what he's experienced, more about his time on the show and his past relationships and his life beyond this. So I really want to focus on that conversation. But that being said, if you want to get Katie Thurston's side of everything and more info on you know, what she's been experiencing this entire journey, but also on last night's stage, she will be on talking it out with Brian and Mike this week, so please go check that out if you want to get, you know, another side. But Katherine, I just think we need to bring Michael on because he had such an incredible story. I think we should just bring him on. What do you think, Let's do it. Let's do it, okay, ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, I think he's going to be one of our favorites of all time. Please welcome Michael A to Happy Hour. Michael A. Welcome to Bachelor Happy Hour. We are so excited to have you because you have been one of my personal favorites. I think you have been one of America's personal favorite contestants. And I want to preface this with you know, we all know you go by Michael A. But for the purpose of this podcast, will drop the A for this. It'll pick back up once you're done, you know. But but we don't need a right now since you're the one and only man here. And I have to say, you are looking great. You have this like post bachelorette globe going on. Oh thank you and good morning, and thank you so much for having me. It's it's a pleasure. And uh yeah, what a what a crazy experience. Everything was very you know, I'm just really excited to kind of get everything going and you know, obviously crazy episode. It's going to be really fun to watch all these amazing memories that feels like so long ago, just once again feel real. How has that been for you because obviously you lived it. It was a few months ago, so you know you've kind of now gone back to your daily life. So how has it been knowing like what you went through versus actually watching it back now. Yeah, It's it's really funny how life changes. You know, you can plan as much as possible, but sometimes, you know, life kind of takes the wheel. And for me, it's I never replied for this. It was never something I had in my you know, plan whatsoever. And Producers reached out to me. And originally, when you go through this process, you've seen it unfold so many times over how many seasons, And at first all I saw was really like downside risk. You know, that's just kind of how I, you know, think, And it was one of those things where it was, you know, twenty nineteen was very difficult, twenty twenty was really difficult, and it felt like a perfect time to you know, bet on myself, take a risk, get outside of my box and try to find some ways to to grow and and and find love and find kind of a missing that missing piece in my life. That's you know, really so vital. Did someone sign you up? I did someone put you up? How did how did they find you? Yeah? So they reached out to me via Instagram and um, you know, producers reached out and at first, really just downside risk didn't seem like it was um, it was really something I had really I thought about whatsoever. And as I started to give it a little bit more thought, it seemed like a perfect time to you know, take some risk, bet on myself, kind of get outside of the box. And crazy enough, I actually said no to it ice Um, not because I didn't you know, believe in it or one thing or the other. It was just is this how I want to go about finding that missing piece? And I mean it's such an absurd idea, but it's a it's a really kind of beautiful thing too. Um. And I'm thirty seven, so definitely like the old dude on the show. Um, you know there's but I will say, our guys, the cast, they're amazing. Um. They're really some people with some good character that are out there. And it was I wasn't the only one kind of leading them. They were leading me throughout this this whole entire thing, because you need to you need to be able to have that kind of support. It to just a crazy experience. And you know, I really can't wait to see how the whole season goes well this as as it pertains to this past week's UM episode, it was like watching like I'm a load that you say that these you can see that there was a lot of good guys, but you were like a man amongst boys at some point you yeah, oh yeah. It was clear that you were eloquent. It was clear that you were vulnerable, that you were mature, and that you knew what you wanted. I mean, I think at one point you said, I wouldn't be you know, like I would leave if it wasn't enough for me, because you have so much at stake and you have a lot waiting for you. But watching the episode and seeing you and your demeanor, but at also times which was really funny throughout the drama, what I witnessed was your facial expressions were really cute because you were so unaware of drama and they show you like look at you around me like I don't know what's going on, but very innocent. It was very cute. So anyways, but you were a man amongst boys. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. I really didn't understand the drama most of the time. I'm I'm you know. Part of it was that I don't know, at this point in my life, you really don't need to create problems for yourself. Um, there's life will give them to you and you adjust to them naturally. So not to say that there weren't significant issues that you know, were brought up in things that need to be addressed, But part of me is always like, why don't you just say you're sorry and we can kind of move on on to the next thing. And it's really also very weird watching yourself on TV. I mean, I every time I'm on, I want to kind of forget that I'm watching, you know, something that really unfolded, but I just want to hide. It's so strange. But yeah, and and and you know those those guys that were on there, Um, you know, I think it's easy to get caught up and the emotions of the momentum. It's you gotta seeing the larger picture, like remember the reason why you're actually there. And I think part of it too is trying to find ways of being sympathetic to Katie and being at that post. There's a lot of emotions that go into it, and any sort of added level of emotion and negativity can have this rippling effect across the entire house and the entire experience. So we're not just reacting in responding to our own emotions and our own experience, but also have to take into account other people's too, including cast and also most importantly Katie. It was interesting because the date, I mean really the whole episode was very vulnerable. It was very powerful, and it was very deep. And what's interesting is that I saw the group date happen and they were breaking down walls and Katie had mentioned, or she really divulged, that she had a lack of consent and she was talking about a previous experience for her, and we notice in your date you actually asked her very respectfully, can I kiss you? And to know that men that that didn't experience her vulnerability and what she was talking about, you didn't even see that, and you respectfully asked her can I kiss you? So do you have any advice for men out there on how to respect women and their boundaries and what they're willing to do in that space? Yeah, well, I mean one, watching it back entirely, I forgot that I even said that. I think it was a little bit of just habit and awkwardness, but I mean, most importantly, consents everything. I didn't want to read a situation wrong. I was the first time, so I really didn't know where she was standing how she was feeling, you know, with me. I mean from the time I got there up until you know, the time we actually kissed for the first time. We had spent some quality time together where I felt there was a connection. But then again, there's also all these other men who she has a connection with, So I didn't want to step kind of out of line. I wanted it to be mutual, not forced, and yeah, I mean consents, that's what you want. Anyways, you know it's not a one sided relationship, because well that's where that's where I think, Adding on to what Kavine said earlier, is like you were shown as like such this kind, respectful man amongst you know, boys, with all of this extra drama going down, and so that's why I think everyone looked at you and your date in your interaction with Katie with so much respect and admiration. It's like, you know, we watch and me as a single woman, I'm like, that's what I want, Like that's the kind of person I want. Like you are just a good person. I want to go back to the connection with Katie because obviously, you know, this week we did see you get that one on one, but when you stepped out of the limo, like obviously there's kind of no expectations. You don't know who you're meeting. You don't know like what the vibe is going to be between you two, if there will be that connection. So did you feel that, you know, fresh out of the limo with Katie, and then did you going into your one on one date like still feel that or were you still kind of like m like, I'm not too sure, Like how are you feeling, like on your side of things, because we you know, we've heard Katie and her interviews and itms, But how are you feeling? Yeah, I remember telling myself that if I didn't feel that and like necessary initial spark, that I really wouldn't waste time. I think. I mean, anybody who's been in a bunch of relationships, you can't force this thing. It really is something where you know that that real spark the first time you see somebody, first time you interact with them, that aura, that energy when words haven't even been spoken. That's a piece that in my mind can't really be replicated and it's special. Um, you can learn to love somebody without that spark, but at the same time, when you do have it um, it really changes everything. And I remember telling myself, just because I have a four year old at home, I've got multiple businesses, I operate employees that kind of depend on me, that if it wasn't there, then it's okay, Like I can I can leave. I don't need to, you know, waste her time, take away from others. But when I was in the limo, I've got okay, I got a really funny story here at I think it's funny, you know. So I'm sitting in the limo and it's my turn to jump on out. The whole entire time I'm in the limo, I'm so not nervous. I'm like, why am I not like sweating and nervous? Like am I just playing it cool here? And then I get out of the limo and one you realize that you've seen this play out so many times and now you're a part of it. So then the nerves started coming, and you know, me being the oldest guy on the show, I was like, oh god, um when I got out, tons of like bright lights, I couldn't actually find her. I had no idea what I hop out the limo and I'm like like, like this I'm like, oh my god, I'm totally playing into like this old dude's there stile and I'm like, where are you like this? And then you know, it's really kind of cute because Katie, you know, she's said it like hello, like over here sea Clouder, sneak Clouder. And then I locked it and she looked incredible that night, um, and I felt a spark, which is what I was looking for the whole entire time. And then you know, you're in the limo, waiting and waiting and waiting. I start taking my first step to her, and my pant leg had risen all the way so like my cap and I looked down and I'm like, should I fix this? Should I just roll with it? Like roll up with her like full llo coool J style, you know, And I don't know that's how it's gonna work. So I just kind of like tried to shake it down. Then I get up there, and you know, she just immediately made you feel, you know, made me feel very welcome. She was very warm and radiant and smiling. And it was really really cold that day too, I did you could kind of tell the girls were so that was it was not la like what we're used to. No, not at all you because people can't handle those midways. I have a question because obviously you came in and you know, as we got to know this week, you have such a history, you have such a story. It's like you have a sound waiting for you at home, and as you mentioned, you know, you have employees, you have so much that, like, you know, if this wasn't going to be right for you, if you didn't feel it, you were like, then I'm okay with coming home. Do you feel like then, knowing all of that in the back of your mind, stepping out of the limit and actually saying yes to this journey in general, was it more pressure or less pressure? Because I feel like so many people come in they're like, you know, I'm going to find my person, and I want to get engaged and I want all of these things that we see play out season after season, and for you to do feel like that was removed because you're like, I love my life, I have so much going on, so much waiting for me back home, that like, would you say that it was less pressure in that regard? Yeah, it's a really good point. I mean I really wasn't playing for these you know, week by week roses. Um. Obviously everything comes with its own stress after you get it. So my first thing was like, I really hope that there's some sort of spark here because that's just exciting for my life. But then once you feel like you're like, oh god, now you feel invested and you feel like now something can be taken away, and so you know, each you know, each time Katie and I spoke, I always asked her, you know, questions, maybe that maybe we're too quick to ask just because I wanted to get to know, you know, when her as a person, but also what her what her goals were work like if this was an end goal, how our lives is going to actually like mesh together, the logistics of it, you know everything. Um, Like, it's not it's not that easy to just like have love to find it, but two lives kind of have to intersect at the right moment as well. And I feel like that's that's like such a great thing that the Bachelor does because in only like in this arena, can you say non negotiables really quickly, because that's like what six months down the road, you would say certain things like well, what would happen if blah blah blah blah. But you could say that day two and it's not that weird, and it's like, I don't want to waste your time. Let's not waste time. So I think that's such an interesting thing that the Bachelor does really well, is creates this environment to really have real talks. Because most of the time, when you get off the show, you don't live in the same city as that person. You will have no idea what their day to day looks like. So that is really good information to know on early so that you can decide if this is our right for either of you. Yeah, I mean, time is just it's so important, you know. It's something I've just learned over you know, the last thirty seven years and just with my own experience, is you know, you don't want to waste it. You have so many people that will come in and out of your life that are trying to take your time and your pieces, and you know, depending on who you are, you know, you may want to give them out freely and you may want to protect them. You know, I'm somebody that happens to give back my time, but that also gets to be in trouble a lot because there's like, well, there's none left for me, and so this whole experience was unbelievable because I was investing in myself. I blocked everything off. And I do think the bachelorrette allows you to focus on you for a little bit and how you want to get better, and you discover stuff about yourself, and you also go into interviews and you start looking at maybe topics that normally would have gone unaddressed in the real world because again, other people are demanding of your time. You've got other responsibilities, so they're depending on how you use your time is always the most important. And I did have this really nice like mental health kind of break from it, like who who gets who finds mental health on eventually? Yeah, well no, I've always said it's like going into the itms and the interviews and even the chats with with other you know, contestants, it's like it becomes some sort of therapy. It's like a lot of it can be very therapeutic for people because we're not always used to opening up and talking about our emotions and our feelings and divulging like these deep dark sides to us. And so you know the show. Obviously, yes there's drama, but there's also some very beautiful breakthroughs and conversations that take place, which is obviously what we saw with you on your one on one with Katie. Yeah, there's there's a quote I love and it's this. It's kind of long, so stick with me here, but it's it goes it's wrong to expect a reward for your struggle. The reward is the act of struggle itself, not what you win. And while we cannot expect to defeed the absurdity in the world, you must make an attempt. That's religion, that's art, that's life. Michael, you're giving me the chills. God, he's proving the marriage materials, just continuing. Yes, he is fully, Yes, you are what every woman would want. Thank you, and you know it. I love that quote because sometimes people feel as though just because you've struggled or you've gone through something hard, that you're entitled to something of reward, ors or whatever. And you're looking at the end goal, that that final kind of exchange and transaction, and there's a lot of reward in the process and in going through that and the Bachelorette my time there with Katie and everything like it was none of that was really lost on me. I want to get into because there was so much that you did share with us during that night portion with Katie, and you shared some very personal, very touching details about your life and with your wife Laura. So I have a two part question because I want to give you the grounds to, you know, share anything that you want with us about Laura, because she seems like an incredible person and like what you shared together, I'm sure was something beautiful and it's a story that we haven't necessarily seen play out on this before, and so I'm glad that that your story and your history is being shown here on this platform. So I want to leave you the space to share anything that you want about her. But first I want to get into going into that evening. I mean, we saw you during the day open up more about your son with Katie, but going into that night, is it something that you had planned to share or were you more in the mindset of, you know, you know, if I'm if this is feeling right in this moment to open up to Katie about this, or like, how did you go into that evening, Like what was your mindset how did you get there? That's a great question because I struggled with it so hard. Um, I mean, obviously we want to share stuff about our past. It's who we are. I mean, it's a big part of it for me. You know, my kind of journey to get here is a little bit more, maybe unorthodox than what others have experience. And so I remember, like when I was, you know, speaking with Katie and and everything, I wanted to bring it up. It was like crawling out of me to get it off my chest because it's just a major, major part. But at the same time, you want to make sure that you can do it justice. You want to make sure that you have the right amount of time. And at the same time, it's not just about me too. You also have to take into account it's an emotional night for Katie and everybody that she's meeting, and I didn't want to put too much on her um where you know, maybe she felt overwhelmed or things like that, but yeah, it was it was. It was on me the entire time, and I was just kind of being patient, hoping that my time would come where I'd be afforded the right amount of time with Katie to be able to go through some of these deeper issues, and I wanted to see also how she responded, I'm not somebody that just listens to words. I look at body language. I mean, the eyes just they don't lie. They just don't lie. You can you can see exactly what someone's feeling when you look at them. So there's the you know, the verbal and nonverbal that I just I wanted to see in Katie was so accepting. It's It's not as though I ever questioned her capacity to be able to handle this and a four year old and everything, but I just had to say, I just had to see it for the first time. I'm sure you probably felt like you couldn't get past, like get to the next levels that you needed to in this without for sharing that with her. So thank I mean, thank you for opening up. Like I said, it's it's not necessarily something that we've seen to this, you know, extent on the show, and I like, I think your story is beautiful and it is what makes you you, and so I know that that could not have been easy to share. But thank you, because I mean, it's a beautiful thing and you are an incredible man because of all of it. Oh, thank you, thank you so much. I mean we are we're all kind of who we are by the people that you know, have really impacted us in our life. You know, parents, and you know, yesterday's Father's Day, so you know, Happy Father's Day. Did Happy Father's dayd you too? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I don't. I don't know, I don't. I don't feel entirely like I've owned, like I'm responsible for kind of the person I am. It's all this stuff that's come along the way that's you know, affected you. And Laura was one hundred percent a key part of that. And you know anybody who's had love or had a really good relationship when you for me, it was like when I was talking to Katie, I wanted to see if this is something she accept because I mean, Laura's fifty percent of me, like just together for such a long time, experience so much together that um, yeah, it was. It was really nice. I'm getting till I remember they're here. First the first night, I mean, you had said I have four old son, So like you put that on the table for Katie to accept, to understand that that is part of you and for as a viewer. I was like, wait, like giving me more, like I want to know more. And so when you were talking to I think it was Mike and another guy this week's episode, you started to let it out and it was so compelling, and you had mentioned that Laura was the only person that you had said I love you too. I mean, these were things that America is now like lifting you up there and saying like, please tell us more. We want more stories like yours, in terms of how vulnerable you were, how much you've learned, how much you still have her by your side, and watching Katie receive that information and say something I thought was beautiful. I have a four year old son as well, So if someone had said to me, hey, I know how much weight this rose carries, it's also including your son. Like I could see you you shift and say like oh wow, like that she gets it. She understands what I'm saying. And she also, you know, respected your wife. So it was just a beautiful moment. I think you were. You spoke so eloquently about your experience about what you had, you know, had held Laura's hand through, and to not just have like verbiage that was cliche. You think you said things that we could really visualize, that we could see and want to like hold your hand through too. So the way that you spoke was so eloquent. It made viewers like me just so proud to be listening to your story and hearing you and being proud of you. And I'm just it was a beautiful, beautiful date. Yeah. I mean, now that you're saying now what we're talking about this, I'm getting like all these memories that are you know, flashing back. And I also remember how difficult it was to keep my story from like other guys in the house that I actually had a good relationship with. I particularly didn't release all of that because one, it's like I'm an individual too. I wanted them to get to know me. I didn't want you know this, you know, this guy's just sad all the time or has that because the story is I mean, it's you know, you can see when I talk about it, I'm smiling, and it's It's something I wanted to share with these guys, but I didn't want that to impact their own experience. It's such an important thing too that I wanted to make sure that I could speak to Katie about it. First, just so that she heard it from me, and that individual's out of no mal intent per se. You bring it up prior, but it just requires a different level of care man, the way you handle things, the way you handle yourself. I'm just like the world needs more men like Michael. Oh my gosh. Well one thing too that you had touched on is you know you mentioned it. It's not just like your son and your family involved in this. You know you still are. I mean, I should say Laura's family is still part of your life. So that just plays an extra role, you know, extra care and thought when she's handed out those roses to you. So coming on, how did both of your families feel about you leaving to come on the show? Yeah, great question. Yeah, I don't even like to call them in laws. I mean their family. You've just been with them for so long and they're amazing and we've all really leaned on each other and kind of grown over the past, you know, geez, the last three years. But when producers reached out to me to be on this you know show with Katie and everything, I wanted to I wanted to ask them first about their opinion. And so after kind of going back and forth and you know, trying to figure out the pros and cons and all that. I went to my parents and I was, you know, this is you know the Bachelor, right, Yeah. I made me on it, like is this something I should do? And you know, we went back and forth bunch. And then my parents They've always been one so incredibly supportive. They're really good people, my mom and my sister. I believe they said, I hear everything you're saying, but every time you're talking about this, you're smiling. So it really didn't have anything to do with the words per se. And that's kind of what I was alluding to before, Like you can see it in people's eyes, like what do they want to do? Your answers are always kind of right there. So I was like, you know, you're right, Like I do get a little like pep in my step, a little energy, which quite frankly I really needed at the time too, because you know, sometimes, I mean I was just totally in this rut, you know, where it's just like oh God, and that that kind of helped lift me up. But you know, did my decision to you know, begin this journey is not just mine? So there's a lot of people who are affected with it in my world, people that I really love and cherish. And so I did. I did say that before I decided to go on the show, I wouldn't go on unless my in laws had given me full approval. Um basically like, this is my out to do something you know that may feel make me feel uncomfortable. But they were supportive too. Um, they understand that we've all been through some very crazy moments together. They know how much you know, I you know, supported them, love their daughter and everything. And they're amazing because they wanted to see me, you know, find happiness again. And I think everybody needs somebody to help them navigate life. Yeah, well yes, ever, I mean, you know, companionship and partnership to go through all of the ups and downs is so important. You know, we as humans gravitate towards that. You had mentioned at one point that obviously you're ready to open your heart again. So what kind of got you to that place where you knew you were ready for that? You know, we talked to like, you know, a lot went down in your past two years, and so how did you know like, Okay, I'm here, like I'm at a good place because I think sometimes it's easy to do, especially when you're going through so many hardships and dealing with a quarantine and this pandemic too, to need some sort of distraction. So what was it that got you to the place where you're like, my head and my heart are ready to, you know, fully give this a shot. That is a really really good question. And you know, for anybody that's ever lost somebody, their process is all very, very different. For me, I am very proact in trying to, you know, get better, and a lot of that has to do with putting yourself in awkward situations and kind of forcing you to grow and probably you know, jeez, maybe you know. Five months after Laura passed, I actually went on my first date. Not because I wanted to find somebody, but I wanted to feel that experience. You know, when you've been with the same person for sixteen years, you know, I'm everything's different, you don't have the same inside jokes, when someone touches you on the shoulder, they smell different, like all of these different experiences. When you go through it for the first time, it's really shocking and it's scary. So I spent a lot of twenty nineteen, putting myself in those scenarios where I was like, Okay, I went through that not as bad as I thought or horrifying, you know, depending on the situation. But you know, you're you're putting yourself in that just so just so you can document it. And I one thing I hear all the time is you know, it has there been enough time? Is this too soon? Which totally valid, very much valid. It's not as though I have the answers to this either, so it's just what I'm leaning on. But time itself doesn't heel um. I mean, sometimes you just have to acknowledge the fact that you're not whole. But it doesn't mean you can't be happy or you can't grow. And I would, I would really say that I'm thankful that I spent that time to find a way to progress, and I put that kind of work in when it was most uncomfortable, most awkward. I put that work in, you know, early on, so that it would make me ready to go through this journey this, you know. And yeah, well, I mean once I got there, I felt like I was I was ready, I was prepared, um, and I wasn't wasting anybody's time. Yeah, Oh man, I saw a graphic a graphic on Instagram the other day where it was like talking about grief um and talking about losing somebody, and it was like it was all these jars stacked up with like this black ball and it's and it's um showing like how like I could be watching this so I'm sorry, and they might cut this part out totally, but it's like this black ball and like saying like, like your grief is going to be the same throughout all the stages of life. It's I was gonna be one size, but it's like it grows. And some days, like the grief is harder than other. Some days it's easier, and so you just have to adjust the size of the jar around you instead of trying to force it all in the same size every time. Yeah, and that's plain. You know, some days like I haven't lost a partner in life, but I have lost a lot of people. I've lost my father, and so I get it. It's like you have these days where you feel like, Okay, I'm good, i'm solid, I'm on the right path, and then you have some days that are crushing, and so you just have to learn to adjust. And I'm sure that's tenfold for you, you know, because you do have a son and a part of her with you that lives on and so um and I'm glad that you recognize that and can acknowledge it. And no, you know, I thought I was gonna be easy. It thought I was the same. But that's why I'm glad that you're along on this season and this journey. I think to kind of like portray that and show that to the world and to show you know, you're doing the best you can in your own way. And I think that's a beautiful thing. Yeah, I think you said it. You said it great, and Happy Father's Day to him too. It was a rough one, but you know, we go on and we adjust. You feel all the things. So those calendar days, man, you're just like, oh God, here we go. And they're always still very much real, and part of me hopes that they never It always feels that way because the worst thing to feel is numb or like you know, apathetic. It's like sometimes even pain of loss is still connection, you know, it's still links you with them, forces you to stop and think and there you know, there's there's this awesome quote that I heard too. I'm not like the quote guy, so you good ones, though you seem to have good ones. It's early in the morning growing out quotes. Oh my god, m but it was this, It was this idea that you know, you you walk along with somebody that you love for so long that when you lose somebody, um, it's almost like you know, a part of your leg is cut off. But what you do is you learn how to dance with the lamp. H You keep giving me the shells that but that's really it is. You're trying to make the best out of a situation, and you stay. You know, you stay. You understand the value of life like that life is short. That you know, it's you can't be wasted. And I think in my situation, I saw my wife such a like a courageous fighter, like maintain so much optimism and humor during times when things really bleak and dismal, and you could easily focus on that. UM. So anytime I get overly, you know, stressed, or overwhelmed or down, I do try to not always successfully by the way, um, but always try to look back on our shared experience together as a family. Everything that we have been through to get us to where we are, and I find it very therapeutic and healing and it helps give me that that kind of boost and push that I need to get through very difficult times when they come up. Well, it just means that it was real. If you're not feeling it, and if it's not, you know, if you're not feeling all of that, it just diminishes what you had. And it seems like there was so much love and just such an incredible solid relationship between the two of you, and so it's it's good to feel that and recognize it because you know, if you didn't hurt, what are we doing in this world? Then one thing I want to ask you, and I want you know, like I said earlier, if there's anything else that you would love to share about Laura with us, whatever you feel comfortable with, please do so. But then also I want to give you the floor to talk about any breast cancer resources or support that you might want to share, because I know many of our listeners you know, have gone through something similar or know of somebody that you know has gone through something. Unfortunately, cancer such a beast in this world, and it happen sucks, you know, but um, but it's such a reality that most people have to deal with. So if you do have any resources or support, like, please share here because I'm sure our listeners would would welcome that with open arms. Yeah, thank you too for allowing me to, you know, bring this up. About three months after Laura had passed away, I was thinking about, you know, I just wanted to create something that you know, really talked about who she was, had something for my son James to connect with. You never, time is so strange. You don't know how it's going to change over time, and I really didn't want to lose that connection in that relationship and everything. So I did create something called the L four Project about three months later, and the L four Project. L four stands for Live Life Like Laura, and the L four Project is an apparel company. We donate one hundred percent of the proceeds two charities that do support cancer research and all of the different elements that are sometimes overlooked during this process. You know, caregivers, transportation to chemotherapy, you know a lot of these pre services, and there's tons of amazing organizations that you know, five O, one C three organizations that are doing this, so we like to create, uh, you know, clothing that does kind of illustrate the journey that people go through. And if you go online at L four projects dot com, you can kind of get a better vibe for it. The short I'm actually wearing today. This started a year ago during covid um. There's an amazing pediatric cancer center in Ohio, Showers Center Pediatric Cancer at apt In General Hospital. And you know when when two thousand and twenty hit, you know, COVID and everything, you I mean, just think about COVID for example, on how many times, how many different ways it has affected people's lives, whether it's you know, funerals or whatever. You know, we weren't allowed to go to see live music, right, totally sucked, but it really has impacted other people in ways we really can't imagine. And in probably mid two thousand and nineteen, we went to the pediatric cancer center and we turned all these kids into a fashion designers. So we wanted to like give them a distraction, kind of offset them, and we got all this amazing artwork back and then we take that artwork, we give it to a graphic designer and they try to capture the idea of what it looks like or feels like to go through cancer as a as a child. And this design here I absolutely love because it's not you don't want to downplay the severity, but at the same time, you don't want to make it all sad as well, um, because that's that's not right either. So this design, obviously it's a heart, but the information that we got back from the kids, there were so many commonalities. You know, there was love, there was support, there was hope, um, but also there was grief. And so this can be interpreted as either sunrise or a sunset, but you know, the heart and everything is um. It's really essential for all of those different components as well. Oh that's beautiful. I feel like I don't know, I'm just emotional right now and this isn't like this is incredible, And again thank you for Sharon. Everyone please go check it out. What is the website Michael's L four project dot com. Okay, L four project dot com. Everyone listening, please go check it out and support like that. Man, I don't even have words to say right now. And I'm not like I've never rendered speechless, but I don't even have words right now, because you were just an incredible Humanum, and the way that you still have this outlookum life, I think is such a beautiful thing. Um. We could sit here and talk to you for hours. I know that you're a busy man and you you have a little one to take care of. So before we let you go, this is one question that we always asks or ask our guests each week overall, without giving any spoilers away from this season, what was your rose and what was your thorn? Okay, and you can start with either whatever, whatever's easiest. Yeah, geez, So I'm interpreting that is what was the best part and what was the most painful part? Exactly? Okay, okay, Um, I would say the most painful part is you know, I mean for me, it was always being away from from my son. That was really really difficult. I think there's a part where in my life sometimes it feels like anything that I want to do to progress me personally is also taking away from something else that I love. So there there's always this balance at play, and that was that was very difficult being away from him. Luckily I was able to face time and keep that connection. Um. The rose part I mean I could go on forever about that. Um, you know, just Katie just being very warm. She is one one thing I'll say, she is an amazing human being. Um. I think I think the world is going to be very impressed with the type of person she is. They may think they know, but she has incredible depth to her. Um. She's very very smart, and she she handles very stressful situations with grace. I mean she's very cognizant, very empathetic, and she was a perfect choice for this In my book, I was so lucky to have her on the on this journey with me and everything that we shared the entire time. I mean it was it was a rose for me. I mean that was that all felt very very good. Okay, casting did really good. Can you please do more of these? Yes, guys, please, if you saw him out, you can do it again. Try and exactly like, try and seek this type of man all the time. Michael, Michael yours. I mean the bar extremely extremely high high. I mean it's kind of strange because I really didn't watch this show too much. My wife loved it, and so when production reached out to me, it was really right around my wife's two year anniversary. So it's like you're always looking for signs, right, and this one just was so obvious. This is funny too. I I know everybody's gotta go, but yeah, this is a funny one too. So this is a true story. So even before cancer had our life, like when we got married, Laura would watch this show and she would basically say, you know, we should get like a like a fake divorce. You go on there like you and then then you come back to me, you know. So it was something she had like in her head. And when this opportunity to pursue this came up, I couldn't help but hear her kind of telling me to do it, and yeah, it's it's it's really really amazing. I feel like I've been able to grow and take a lot from it, and um, whatever happens happens. Okay, Michael, you have been one of the most interesting, profound, just like incredible people that we have had on this podcast. And it's early to take compliments here. It has been so great chatting with you. Thank you so much. I hope that this isn't the last time that we will have you on or be able to have a conversation with you, but you have been such a joy this morning. So thank you. Oh, thank you guys, thank you for having me. And keep your head out, keep smiling, and I'll talk to you, sir, you too. I want to check out your website once we leave here. All right, thank you? All right? Taking Michael, Hi, Michael, Oh, Catherine, Michael's incredible. He's that's that's really hard to follow, that that type of man. If she didn't choose him, there's gonna be a line up the door for bye. Oh my god, I might I might join that line. I'm not gonna lie. I'm I'm going to be first of the line. Can we start a roster? Can I be number one on that list? Like I think I just fell in love. I mean, he is a grown man. That is a man. He is a man, but just what life is about. Yes, and that's the thing, Like he's been through so much. But to still have that positive outlook and to still be open and just embrace everything that can come your way, I think is such a beautiful thing that you don't see that often. I'm just so happy we had him on and we were able to you know, I would love to chat with him more. I feel like we could have kept going. Obviously, he has a son and he's a busy, busy guy. So thank you to Michael. That guy seriously coach with all the good quote sprinkled people like what do you say? Yeah, tell me more about overcome thing. But I'm so glad we were able to have him. So Michael, thank you so much for joining us, And to all of our Bachelor Happy Hour listeners, thank you once again for hanging out with us this week. I hope that you guys enjoyed this episode because there was a lot to take from that um, a lot on all angles, and so please go check out his UM website, his his UH project dot com, L four project dot com. I'm gonna I'm gonna google this after that and probably make some purchases to support so UM. If you guys want to keep checking in with us and sending us your comments, questions, concerns, potential guests that you would like us to chat with, please do so. You can find us on social at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram and at Batch Nation pods on both Facebook and Twitter. It's a new one, so it's at Batch Nation pods on Facebook and Twitter, and as always, please don't forget to subscribe to our podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, The Wondering App, or wherever you are listening to us right now. Thanks everyone, Thanks