Digital Marketing Expert Ryan Deiss: How You Can Scale Your Business in 5 Steps

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<v Speaker 1>I had the unfortunate experience of being thrown in jail one night.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a long story.

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<v Speaker 2>Brian Deist, digital marketer, extraordinaire when it comes to scaling a business.

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<v Speaker 2>I bet you didn't know some of the insights he's going to share with us.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe that media companies are the least valued, most valuable businesses out there.

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<v Speaker 1>You need to be able to visualize how you're actually creating value.

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<v Speaker 1>The mistake, the trap that entrepreneurs fall into is they think that success looks like just doubling down.

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<v Speaker 1>It's true in the abstract, but if you want to scale a company, you need to pull out and think about what's the value chain that makes that happen.

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<v Speaker 2>He's phenomenal at the subject of marketing.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're really good at marketing in sales, you shouldn't need anybody, because if you're great at marketing in sales and you have a good product or service, you should just be crushing life.

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<v Speaker 2>Best ever, Ryan.

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<v Speaker 2>Motivational speech.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Ryan, I got to ask your definition of success.

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<v Speaker 1>As long as I can think, would my tenure in the past version of myself be proud of me today?

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<v Speaker 1>Then, ultimately, I'm going to call that success.

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<v Speaker 1>This is something I've struggled with a lot, man, because the goals keep getting moved.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember, you know, sold a company, had experienced what I thought was success, and I looked around and I didn't feel very successful.

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<v Speaker 1>I realized it was because I was comparing myself to other people who had maybe sold their companies for more, or I was comparing myself with just things that I knew I could have done.

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<v Speaker 1>That didn't go quite as well as I thought.

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<v Speaker 1>And I remember, ultimately, my wife, who is all sorts of goodness and wisdom in my life, said when we first got married if I had told you that this would happen, you would not have believed it.

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<v Speaker 1>You're right, you're right.

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<v Speaker 1>So, as long as I can, if I were to go back in time and tell myself whether it's 10 years, 5 years, 20 years, whatever if there's some earlier version of me that I could say, hey, here's what I'm doing now, and some version of that would have been like well, that's pretty cool, I'm going to call that success and for the win.

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<v Speaker 2>So how did it evolve then, your definition of success?

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<v Speaker 2>Because obviously, when we start out younger and then as we get older, it changes.

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<v Speaker 2>How did it evolve for you?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, for me, when people asked me when I was a kid what I wanted to be when I grew up, I said a millionaire, and I don't know why I didn't come from a wealthy family, but no joke, they said that and they were like I think it was.

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<v Speaker 1>I was.

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<v Speaker 1>I watched, I love Batman and you know Bruce Wayne was a millionaire and he had like cool stuff and I was like I want that.

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<v Speaker 1>And it wasn't clear what he did for a living.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess he inherited it.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, trust fund kid.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't have that as an option.

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<v Speaker 1>But for me success in the beginning was, you know, was a million dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>And I remember thinking my very first goal was you know, if I could just make $10,000 a month, then I would never need anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>And then it was well, you know, you find out more, so that's the thing like the goalpost.

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<v Speaker 1>But the first definition was a million dollars, as as, maybe as shallow as that sounds.

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<v Speaker 1>That was my first definition of success.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh look, I mean, it's so easy when you're a kid to get enamored with that which you don't have and do it from that perspective.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that you chose success as a kid, or did it come later in life?

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<v Speaker 2>Where did you make the choice?

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<v Speaker 2>I will be a success at whatever I do, or in life.

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<v Speaker 1>I always had ambition and I don't really know where it came from.

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<v Speaker 1>Neither of my parents were particularly ambitious, and I don't mean that to say they weren't amazing humans.

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<v Speaker 1>My mom will teach her.

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<v Speaker 1>My dad's an electrician.

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<v Speaker 1>My dad's one of the most content people I've ever met in my entire life.

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<v Speaker 1>There are seasons in my life where I'm highly envious of my father because he's just a good man.

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<v Speaker 1>He's just so damn happy and has never wanted for anything, has always been very proud of me but was never, you know, proud but not impressed, you know, if that makes sense, like he would have loved me and been proud of me no matter what, and so there.

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<v Speaker 1>But there was always this yearning there for wanting more.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember my friend.

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<v Speaker 1>I had this friend growing up.

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<v Speaker 1>He was very artistic and he'd make these like origami things.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd be like we could sell those.

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<v Speaker 1>So we go door to door in the apartment trying to sell these like little origami creations.

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<v Speaker 1>And I didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like I even necessarily needed the money.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like I got money and bought stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I just always wanted to do more, to produce more, to make more.

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<v Speaker 1>I was never happy with the status quo.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know why.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably that means I'm broken in some way.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I remember when I interviewed Gary about the from the Y Institute and you look at your Y Somewhere in there, there's a thing of making stuff better or making stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>You know it just is, and I find a lot of guys like you and me who are teachers, just love to help people make stuff better and do that stuff Flip it back a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>What is your methodology or formula or how do you see success happen?

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<v Speaker 2>What's your way of it happening?

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<v Speaker 1>So for me, there has to be something I want that I don't have.

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<v Speaker 1>I get very, very depressed immediately post-achievement, Like the feeling of the victory doesn't last very long.

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<v Speaker 1>And so for me, there's got to be something that I really, really want.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I remember I was in when I first started college.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I was happy, Like I made it into the school.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to make it into like life was good, but it wasn't until I met this girl my freshman year and I thought, oh, this is probably the woman I'm going to marry Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Incidentally, I didn't tell her that right away, that's creepy, but I knew in my heart of hearts.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew, and I knew that, like I'd probably need to propose, I knew I'd probably need to have a diamond when I did that.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew diamonds were expensive and so I went okay, I need to figure out how to make money.

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<v Speaker 1>There was something that I wanted, and I started my very first business online from my college dorm room Just with the goal in mind of I want to have enough money to buy a really nice diamond ring that is worthy of this girl that I will probably ask to marry me at some point in the next couple of years.

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<v Speaker 1>So for me, success always starts from.

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<v Speaker 1>There's got to be something I want that I don't have, and sometimes it's something that is very noble and sometimes, man, it's not, Sometimes it's just the most shallow thing in the world, but it has to come from.

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<v Speaker 1>I want this thing and I don't have it, because that's what creates the thought process and that's when I start asking the questions about well, how do we get there and what's the fastest way to get there and the most efficient way to get there.

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<v Speaker 1>But it always starts from I want something and I ain't got it, let's fix it.

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<v Speaker 2>What's your theory on the relationship between failure and success?

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<v Speaker 1>I think that failure is the best teacher in the world, as long as you can separate yourself from the emotional aspect of it.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'll explain what I mean, because I think a lot of people, when they fail, the worst thing in the world that can happen is that failure now becomes an aspect of your identity.

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<v Speaker 1>If you fail, you didn't fail, you are a failure.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's when I think that failure has an inverse correlation to success, because now, if I identify as a failure, well, I'm going to look.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll find plenty of failure in your life and in the world, and so that's what you see and that's what you'll pursue, and it becomes this worst self-fulfilling prophecy ever.

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<v Speaker 1>The flip side of that, though, is also unhelpful.

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<v Speaker 1>If you sugarcoat, if you spin every failure as like oh well, that's not that big a deal and oh you know, it just is making me stronger, but you never pause long enough to learn from that failure, then you won't grow.

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<v Speaker 1>I had the unfortunate experience of being thrown in jail one night.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a long story.

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<v Speaker 1>I shouldn't have been there.

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<v Speaker 1>The cop that put me there did ultimately get fired.

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<v Speaker 1>It's now a matter of public record that I did nothing wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>That being said, here I am in jail, okay, and I remember we were in jail and they had a bunch of us who had put in this big cell.

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<v Speaker 1>We were waiting there to be processed and get put in a smaller cell and there was this guy who clearly had been there many times, like he knew the names of the officers and they knew his name, and this guy, I guess, felt like as the senior member of our little organization, felt like he needed to dispel some wisdom.

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<v Speaker 1>And so this guy says look, everybody, I know what you're thinking Like, what did I do?

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<v Speaker 1>What got me here?

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<v Speaker 1>And look, you shouldn't be thinking that that's not the right way to think.

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<v Speaker 1>You just need to take it.

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<v Speaker 1>And it just happened and it just is, and that's okay.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't know why I was frustrated and sleepy and bored and I figured I probably wasn't going to get.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't have time to make a shiver chanker to stab me or anything yet.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was like I got to say I completely disagree with that.

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<v Speaker 1>I think now is an amazing time for all of us to reflect on exactly what got us here and learn from it.

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<v Speaker 1>And the guy paused and looked at me and I was like I'm going to get killed in jail.

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<v Speaker 1>This is where it all ends for me.

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<v Speaker 1>And he went.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, y'all that guy.

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<v Speaker 1>What he said, and I think that's important.

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<v Speaker 1>I think failure is a phenomenal opportunity if you can pause to reflect on it, externalize it, look back on it and learn from it.

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<v Speaker 1>So every month I make a list of all my highlights and all my lowlights for the month and I give myself time to swim in the stench of failure, and then I turn the page physically in my journal.

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<v Speaker 1>I physically turn the page, I write the lessons learned, but I do not recount the failures themselves, only the lessons that do I physically take forward.

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<v Speaker 2>Love it Best ever, Ryan.

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<v Speaker 2>Motivational speech given in the cell In the jail site.

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<v Speaker 2>Hopefully we got some people to turn their lives around based on that speech.

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<v Speaker 2>So when you look at successes and there's an interesting thing you said there about moving on to the next thing have you learned to celebrate those successes so that you do carry them with you, Because you can turn the page on the failures?

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<v Speaker 2>How do you carry the successes?

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<v Speaker 2>I guess?

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<v Speaker 1>If I'm being candid, that's the thing I'm the worst at, and I'm fortunate that my wife will force me to celebrate.

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<v Speaker 1>But I expect success and so when it happens, I don't celebrate it Because that's what we're supposed to do.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm far more likely to celebrate failure, and this actually became pretty toxic because I brought this into my company and anytime somebody would fail, we'd make a big deal out of it, and I think there's a positive aspect to that.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to celebrate it, we're going to learn from it and you're going to get to see that if you fail at this company, that's not a death sentence.

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<v Speaker 1>But what we never did was celebrate when we won, and people were really discouraged by that and some of my team members called me on it and we actually eventually and I had to go in front and apologize they're like we're going to start doing this and I'm bad at this and eventually we built a core value and a reputation as a company that celebrated success.

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<v Speaker 1>So we do that the couple of times.

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<v Speaker 1>Man, I'm so bad at it personally.

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<v Speaker 1>I need to get better at it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's interesting because I go back to being when I was a young man and I worked.

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<v Speaker 2>I just worked, I didn't do anything.

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<v Speaker 2>I had to add a segment to my life of creator of fun times because it's like I didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>I did need to celebrate success Let me put that a different way but my team needed it so bad.

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<v Speaker 2>They worked their tail off.

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<v Speaker 2>I got the economic benefit of that success more than they did, so I needed to celebrate.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you do to remind yourself of that, or does your team just remind you of that now?

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<v Speaker 1>So now it's baked into the.

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<v Speaker 1>It literally is one of our core core values.

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<v Speaker 1>If we don't celebrate success, it's a core values violation.

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<v Speaker 1>So I almost needed to make it punitive.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it almost needed to be a punishment if we didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>And now what we have is good leaders who they embody those values and they offset mine and they're very thoughtful, not just about celebrating as a company, but they will celebrate individuals who are successful and they'll make a big deal out of it.

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<v Speaker 1>And I won't, and we had a lot of people who were for me.

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<v Speaker 1>It's why I'm, frankly, not a great CEO.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a good founder, I'm a good entrepreneur, but I'm not a great manager or operator, because I don't do a good enough job of that.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think you're going to be a great leader.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to balance the two.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to be incredibly honest with people when they fall short and do it in a loving, caring way, but that has to be balanced by elevating them.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm proud of the fact that I don't treat my own children that way.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't bring that into the home so I can separate it personally and familiarly, but when it comes to business, I got some head junk about that, I guess.

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<v Speaker 2>It's interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>The moment you don't understand yourself is when you struggle with those things.

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<v Speaker 2>The moment you know who you are, you surround yourself with the right people that balance that stuff out, and that's one of the things I love.

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<v Speaker 2>Big success podcast We'll be back in just a moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Ryan Dice is going to take us into digital marketing, scalability all the things you need to learn to create that massive success.

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<v Speaker 3>Start living your life on purpose and with a plan.

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<v Speaker 3>As Brad Sugar's teaches, you only get 4,000 weeks, so learn the principles of success and make the most of your life.

00:13:25.038 --> 00:13:28.278
<v Speaker 3>Join Brad's Purpose Event now and create the life that you deserve.

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<v Speaker 3>Visit BradSugar'scom to attend this program as a standalone or as part of Brad Sugar's entrepreneurial university.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're back Big success podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you hit that subscribe button, ryan.

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<v Speaker 2>You sold digital marketer for billions and billions and billions of dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>If you read all the things, what did you guys learn by building that business?

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<v Speaker 2>Because it was a phenomenal opportunity to learn in the early stages of marketing that didn't really exist.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, point of clarification.

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<v Speaker 1>We actually didn't sell digital marketer, the main company.

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<v Speaker 1>We sold traffic and conversions, some at the event.

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<v Speaker 1>We got to maintain the media side of that, which is an important you know, one of the learnings, which is, I believe, that media companies are the least valued, most valuable businesses out there.

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<v Speaker 1>So media companies what we're doing right now are so valuable because they're aggregators of attention, but they're not valued in the marketplace because they don't monetize that attention particularly very well.

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<v Speaker 1>And so a lot of media companies they monetize primarily through advertising, which can be kind of inefficient and it's just not that great or like maybe they got some premium subscriptions, but media alone doesn't necessarily make a great business by itself.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you just look at what like just Google BuzzFeed's valuation and what's happened there and vice and all these other pure play media companies, what they're great at is being the goose.

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<v Speaker 1>They're great at being a goose that lays golden eggs, and so I'm fortunate got a really sharp business partner in Roland Frazier who helped us restructure that company when he came on board and we realized that the event Trafficking and Conversion Summit well, that was a business by itself and so if we were to kind of send that out into its own organization.

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<v Speaker 1>That could really be something.

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<v Speaker 1>And digital marketer that could really be its own thing in our different courses, but it was.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the most fun aspect of that business was realizing that you could take something that was a quote unquote guru business and turn it into a sellable standalone business and making that from Ryan Dice talking about, from being the quote unquote Ryan Dice business me talking about marketing to making it more about frameworks, to making it more about ideas and to inviting other people in to share their ideas.

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<v Speaker 1>And as long as everybody was pointing back to the core frameworks and everybody's pointing back to the core brand, the brand was the recipient of all of that brand equity and that worked really well.

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<v Speaker 2>But I have to ask.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, digital marketing was nowhere when first you guys started it.

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<v Speaker 2>What did it feel like to build an industry, or build a profession, a whole thing, not just a business?

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<v Speaker 1>It was wild when I made my very first sale online in 1999.

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<v Speaker 1>Google was a science fair project, it was just, it was nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>And to watch this industry emerge, and then I wouldn't want to tell people that I had online businesses.

00:16:33.741 --> 00:16:37.999
<v Speaker 1>They assumed that it was a scam or it was porn or it was something super sketchy.

00:16:37.999 --> 00:16:48.160
<v Speaker 1>But it was fun because I would ask at the start of our event, traffic and Conversion Summit, I'd say how many of you are here to learn how to market your own business?

00:16:48.160 --> 00:16:49.895
<v Speaker 1>And the first year it was just about everybody.

00:16:49.895 --> 00:16:50.677
<v Speaker 1>Great.

00:16:50.677 --> 00:16:55.500
<v Speaker 1>How many of you are here to learn how to do marketing so you can do it on behalf of somebody else?

00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:58.918
<v Speaker 1>Coaches, consultants, and a few hands went up.

00:16:58.918 --> 00:17:01.136
<v Speaker 1>How many of you are here because you do marketing within a company?

00:17:01.136 --> 00:17:01.831
<v Speaker 1>Almost nobody.

00:17:01.851 --> 00:17:07.259
<v Speaker 1>The first few years, the biggest shift that I saw take place was the professionalization of digital marketing.

00:17:07.259 --> 00:17:28.796
<v Speaker 1>The agencies and the consultants emerge, the roles begin to form within companies, and that really was when it blew up, when digital marketing was not just this thing that people did who wanted to sell stuff on the internet, when everybody realized that, well, all marketing is digital, because all business is digital, because you can't escape the web, and we were the beneficiary of that.

00:17:28.796 --> 00:17:35.096
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't have predicted it, but we were happy to write it and we were also happy from a brand perspective.

00:17:35.096 --> 00:17:45.976
<v Speaker 1>It's why I wanted to choose a broad brand and digital marketer, as opposed to one that was super narrow, because I knew that they were going to be rolled up under a single umbrella, so we were pretty intentional about that as well.

00:17:46.970 --> 00:17:50.400
<v Speaker 2>So that brings us to scaling businesses now.

00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.076
<v Speaker 2>The big thing you're teaching right now is scalability.

00:17:53.076 --> 00:17:57.538
<v Speaker 2>What's the core factors that someone needs to understand to scale a business today?

00:17:59.964 --> 00:18:15.644
<v Speaker 1>as you know, everybody's heard it, but it really does come down to systems, and I wanna clarify that a little bit more and speak to it, because when people hear systems, they think, oh, okay, so I need to just create checklists and standard operating procedure for everything that everybody does.

00:18:15.644 --> 00:18:18.147
<v Speaker 1>And the answer is no, don't do that.

00:18:18.147 --> 00:18:18.762
<v Speaker 1>I did that.

00:18:18.762 --> 00:18:35.986
<v Speaker 1>I basically shut down my entire company for a month, asked everybody in the business to you know, systemize, I need you to document everything that you did, and at first everybody was pissed off because they didn't wanna do the work, and then they got scared because they thought they were all getting fired and then, when I found them, convinced them no, it's okay, this is a good thing.

00:18:35.986 --> 00:18:40.825
<v Speaker 1>You know, I read this book called the EMIF and you know this is something that's important and you should which, by the way, I love the EMIF buck, like all.

00:18:40.825 --> 00:18:41.226
<v Speaker 1>That's great.

00:18:41.279 --> 00:19:03.085
<v Speaker 1>I'm not knocking it my way that I chose to go about deploying it was not the right way, which is the way I see most people deploy it, and so they'll either try to document everything which you don't wanna do, or they'll say I think the biggest mistake that I see entrepreneurs make is they just believe that they don't have what it takes to scale their business.

00:19:03.085 --> 00:19:09.127
<v Speaker 1>They believe that you know, I'm good at the start but I don't really have what it takes.

00:19:09.127 --> 00:19:10.143
<v Speaker 1>I need to bring in.

00:19:10.143 --> 00:19:26.566
<v Speaker 1>You know, I need to bring in some more like adult management in here, like, and I just think we sell ourselves so short and, as a result, we kind of sell our companies and our people down the river, like this is something that is very figureoutable, very, very figureoutable.

00:19:26.566 --> 00:19:32.910
<v Speaker 1>There is a system, there is a process to this and you know, and it's fun, it's so much fun.

00:19:32.910 --> 00:19:37.307
<v Speaker 1>It's a different challenge, but it's one that we can, as entrepreneurs, all do.

00:19:37.307 --> 00:19:38.069
<v Speaker 1>We can pull off.

00:19:38.411 --> 00:19:38.611
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

00:19:38.611 --> 00:19:46.846
<v Speaker 2>So if you look at I mean, when I joke with people about scalability, I just say, listen, a billion dollar company is just X times Y.

00:19:46.846 --> 00:19:52.553
<v Speaker 2>It's a four million dollar operation in 250 locations.

00:19:52.553 --> 00:19:59.990
<v Speaker 2>Or it's a two million dollar location in 500 locations around the world, like it's a billion is not that complex.

00:19:59.990 --> 00:20:03.063
<v Speaker 2>If you can get to a million or multi-millions, you can do that.

00:20:03.063 --> 00:20:10.625
<v Speaker 2>When you look at the strategy behind scaling business, what's your thinking around the strategy behind people scaling?

00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:20.925
<v Speaker 1>So the first thing that you have to do is is you need to be able to visualize how you're actually creating value, and I think that's the part that a lot of entrepreneurs don't do.

00:20:20.925 --> 00:20:22.664
<v Speaker 1>They don't actually know.

00:20:22.664 --> 00:20:25.366
<v Speaker 1>If you were to say, hey, how do new customers happen?

00:20:25.366 --> 00:20:27.365
<v Speaker 1>Like, how do clients happen?

00:20:27.365 --> 00:20:31.542
<v Speaker 1>They could generally describe it, but they couldn't show you.

00:20:31.542 --> 00:20:36.984
<v Speaker 1>And if you were to say, well, when you get a new customer, when you get a new client, how do you fulfill in the promised value?

00:20:36.984 --> 00:20:38.189
<v Speaker 1>How do you do that?

00:20:38.189 --> 00:20:45.567
<v Speaker 1>Or how do you come up with new product ideas, new feature ideas, if you're more innovation focused, like, what is your process for that?

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:59.988
<v Speaker 1>And I think the biggest shift that startup founders need to make to become true scale-up CEOs is, instead of the focus being on singular value drivers, we need to shift to thinking about value chains.

00:20:59.988 --> 00:21:06.307
<v Speaker 1>So a value driver is something like I'm really good at buying Facebook ads.

00:21:06.307 --> 00:21:10.307
<v Speaker 1>For me, when I first got started, I was really good at search engine optimization.

00:21:10.307 --> 00:21:11.743
<v Speaker 1>That's a value driver.

00:21:11.743 --> 00:21:14.166
<v Speaker 1>Or somebody could say I'm really good at sales.

00:21:14.166 --> 00:21:16.527
<v Speaker 1>You put a prospect from me, I'll close them.

00:21:16.527 --> 00:21:19.868
<v Speaker 1>Or I'm really good at delivering this particular service.

00:21:19.868 --> 00:21:21.365
<v Speaker 1>I'm the best in the world.

00:21:21.365 --> 00:21:22.786
<v Speaker 1>You put somebody in front of me.

00:21:22.786 --> 00:21:23.762
<v Speaker 1>They got a smoking issue.

00:21:23.762 --> 00:21:24.867
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna hypnotize them.

00:21:24.867 --> 00:21:25.561
<v Speaker 1>They're not gonna smoke.

00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:38.826
<v Speaker 1>All of those things are value drivers and the mistake, the trap that entrepreneurs fall into, is they think that success looks like just doubling down, because you heard like double down in your strengths.

00:21:38.826 --> 00:21:54.847
<v Speaker 1>It's true in the abstract, but if you wanna scale a company, you need to pull out and think about what's the value chain that makes that happen All the stuff before, all the stuff after and even the independent steps during, because you're gonna need to add additional people to that.

00:21:54.847 --> 00:22:03.144
<v Speaker 1>But if you just hire people before you have the systems in place, we say all the time good people don't fix broken systems, broken systems break good people.

00:22:03.144 --> 00:22:09.483
<v Speaker 1>And if you've hired for a role a half a dozen times and people keep failing, it's not a people problem, it's a systems problem.

00:22:09.483 --> 00:22:16.664
<v Speaker 1>And usually the systems problem is we haven't broken down our value creation process into its steps.

00:22:16.664 --> 00:22:19.366
<v Speaker 1>All we think about are the individual drivers.

00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:33.326
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's look at that then for your decision making when you're investing or buying a company these days, are you looking for companies that don't understand scale and you look at and go hang on, I can see how to scale this.

00:22:33.326 --> 00:22:36.729
<v Speaker 2>How is your decision around buying companies today?

00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:41.347
<v Speaker 1>So when we're acquiring companies, we're always looking for companies where we can add value.

00:22:41.347 --> 00:22:48.608
<v Speaker 1>I am not a really a I'm not doing passive investing.

00:22:48.608 --> 00:22:52.262
<v Speaker 1>If I were to do that, I could just go and buy index funds and stuff like that.

00:22:52.262 --> 00:22:58.027
<v Speaker 1>So when we're looking at buying companies, we're looking at where can we add value, and we can add value in a number of ways.

00:22:58.027 --> 00:23:00.588
<v Speaker 1>We can certainly add value on the marketing side.

00:23:00.588 --> 00:23:04.123
<v Speaker 1>Really good at marketing Can generally add some value on the sales side Pretty good at that.

00:23:04.123 --> 00:23:14.625
<v Speaker 1>We can add value on the systems and ops side, and so what I'm looking for is a business that is typically succeeding almost in spite of itself and they've got an amazing product.

00:23:14.625 --> 00:23:22.810
<v Speaker 1>The customers love them and if they were to go out of business tomorrow they would be missed, but they're just struggling.

00:23:22.810 --> 00:23:28.684
<v Speaker 1>Those are the businesses that I love, because one, we can add the most value, but two, they're the ones who deserve to win.

00:23:29.681 --> 00:23:33.539
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of people who are really good at marketing and sales, which means they're really good at selling stuff.

00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:34.403
<v Speaker 1>That's kind of crappy.

00:23:34.403 --> 00:23:45.102
<v Speaker 1>So if a business comes to me and they're phenomenal at marketing and sales, but they're still really struggling, I'm probably not interested in doing an acquisition on that Cause one.

00:23:45.102 --> 00:23:47.229
<v Speaker 1>I can't add value in an area that I know.

00:23:47.229 --> 00:23:51.665
<v Speaker 1>But if you're really good at marketing and sales, you shouldn't need anybody.

00:23:51.665 --> 00:23:57.025
<v Speaker 1>Cause if you're great at marketing and sales and you have a good product or service, you should just be crushing life.

00:23:57.025 --> 00:23:59.184
<v Speaker 1>Now, somebody who's good at marketing and sales.

00:23:59.184 --> 00:24:02.385
<v Speaker 1>Their customers are all happy, but they haven't figured out how to productize what they're doing.

00:24:02.385 --> 00:24:05.229
<v Speaker 1>If it's a service, okay, different animal, different animal.

00:24:05.229 --> 00:24:11.807
<v Speaker 1>But a lot of times we'll see these companies who are good at products and services or good at sales and marketing and you look at their reviews and they're all in the toilet.

00:24:11.807 --> 00:24:13.404
<v Speaker 1>You know it's like yeah, no thanks.

00:24:13.906 --> 00:24:16.067
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're on the big success podcast.

00:24:16.067 --> 00:24:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Make sure you hit that subscribe button.

00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:18.424
<v Speaker 2>We're going to be back in a moment.

00:24:18.424 --> 00:24:21.425
<v Speaker 2>Ryan's going to talk to us about difference between good and great.

00:24:22.040 --> 00:24:29.846
<v Speaker 4>Ryan Dice is a serial entrepreneur, author, investor and, according to Shark Tank star Damon John, his company's practically owned the internet.

00:24:29.846 --> 00:24:35.846
<v Speaker 4>He also quite literally wrote the book on modern marketing, digital marketing for dummies, which is now in its second edition.

00:24:35.846 --> 00:24:39.410
<v Speaker 4>To learn more about Ryan Dice, please visit scalableco.

00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:40.542
<v Speaker 2>All right, you're back.

00:24:40.542 --> 00:24:42.101
<v Speaker 2>Big success, Ryan.

00:24:42.101 --> 00:24:48.044
<v Speaker 2>You've coached a bunch of people, bought a bunch of companies, taught millions.

00:24:48.044 --> 00:24:50.061
<v Speaker 2>I would guess it is the numbers.

00:24:50.061 --> 00:25:01.623
<v Speaker 2>These days, what's the difference between someone who sets goals to do the million and someone who sets goals to do the billion or the good, versus the amazing type thing in your mind?

00:25:01.623 --> 00:25:02.707
<v Speaker 2>How do you see the difference?

00:25:04.299 --> 00:25:08.503
<v Speaker 1>I think it's less about the goal setting and more about the people who do the consistent action to achieve the goals.

00:25:08.503 --> 00:25:11.888
<v Speaker 1>So if you're going to set the goal, that's great.

00:25:11.888 --> 00:25:16.484
<v Speaker 1>But the question you have to ask is why don't I already have this?

00:25:16.484 --> 00:25:22.535
<v Speaker 1>I think it's a question that nobody asks when they set a goal I want to lose 20 pounds.

00:25:22.535 --> 00:25:24.473
<v Speaker 1>Why am I not already 20 pounds lighter?

00:25:24.473 --> 00:25:27.654
<v Speaker 1>If it's a goal, it means you don't have it.

00:25:27.654 --> 00:25:28.571
<v Speaker 1>Why don't you have it?

00:25:28.571 --> 00:25:33.922
<v Speaker 1>Because they don't ask the question, they don't come to.

00:25:34.724 --> 00:25:37.856
<v Speaker 1>The hard truth of these are the changes that are going to need to happen.

00:25:37.856 --> 00:25:44.319
<v Speaker 1>These are the sacrifices that are going to need to be made Because, make no mistake, if you don't have something right now, you're probably not an idiot.

00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:48.798
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that.

00:25:48.798 --> 00:25:51.083
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't supposed to eat three cheeseburgers a day.

00:25:51.083 --> 00:26:02.398
<v Speaker 1>Come on, if you don't have something, typically it's not that you don't know how to get it, it's that you're going to have to change something and that's going to hurt a little bit.

00:26:02.398 --> 00:26:06.179
<v Speaker 1>Acknowledging that and then saying what are the habits?

00:26:06.179 --> 00:26:07.954
<v Speaker 1>What new habits do I need to form?

00:26:07.954 --> 00:26:08.932
<v Speaker 1>What old habits do I need?

00:26:08.932 --> 00:26:13.920
<v Speaker 1>To break the difference between the people who set goals, the goals and achieve them and the ones that don't.

00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:21.398
<v Speaker 1>They ask that hard question and they figure out what are the habits that need to change the little micro things along the way, not the big stuff.

00:26:22.390 --> 00:26:24.076
<v Speaker 2>When you buy a company these days.

00:26:24.076 --> 00:26:33.041
<v Speaker 2>The CEOs obviously got to change their mindset to a scalable mindset, from a I don't know define it as a running the company mindset.

00:26:33.041 --> 00:26:34.734
<v Speaker 2>How do you help them shift?

00:26:34.734 --> 00:26:39.319
<v Speaker 2>What are the things you do to get them to see that they can be a scalable CEO?

00:26:41.130 --> 00:26:52.183
<v Speaker 1>It's first getting them to visualize whatever the part is that they think they can't give up, because most of the CEOs, when they're stuck in the swamp of scale, it's because they're still owning some functional aspect of the business.

00:26:52.183 --> 00:26:56.218
<v Speaker 1>It's almost always on the revenue side or on the product fulfillment services side.

00:26:56.218 --> 00:27:02.420
<v Speaker 1>Whichever one they're most in it's they believe that they can't release some aspect of that.

00:27:02.420 --> 00:27:15.097
<v Speaker 1>We've got to make them believe that they can both, so that they can scale themselves, so they can then scale their companies, but also so that if one day we want to sell this business, we don't have to sell it with a human attached to it.

00:27:15.097 --> 00:27:16.333
<v Speaker 1>That's not as valuable.

00:27:16.333 --> 00:27:20.631
<v Speaker 1>We say all the time the more valuable you are to your business, the less valuable your business is.

00:27:20.631 --> 00:27:27.480
<v Speaker 1>That is the founder's curse, that is the founder's paradox the more valuable you are to your business, the less valuable your business is.

00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:32.440
<v Speaker 1>We've got to get you quote unquote less valuable, which means we've got to get you replaceable.

00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.479
<v Speaker 1>We start off by saying let's document this.

00:27:36.479 --> 00:27:43.160
<v Speaker 1>We'll get out, literally post the notes in a whiteboard and we'll say I want to walk through the process of how you do what you do, and we'll get them to visualize it.

00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:47.181
<v Speaker 1>We'll say okay, which of these things do you believe you couldn't possibly give up?

00:27:47.181 --> 00:27:48.575
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's, step right there.

00:27:48.575 --> 00:27:50.236
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're going to let you have this one.

00:27:50.236 --> 00:27:51.071
<v Speaker 1>What could you give up?

00:27:51.071 --> 00:27:51.272
<v Speaker 1>All the?

00:27:51.272 --> 00:27:54.193
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I could probably show somebody to do that one and that one and that one.

00:27:54.193 --> 00:28:10.295
<v Speaker 1>Then eventually we get to a place where they see I could probably give away every single one of these little sticky notes if I just documented it Something magical happens when they visualize it, when they can see the value chain, that's when we see the light bulbs go off, that's when we see the shift take place.

00:28:11.109 --> 00:28:20.903
<v Speaker 1>Then the hard part that you have to figure out is the next piece that you got to tackle is the identity component, because CEOs and entrepreneurs will identify as being skilled in a particular area.

00:28:20.903 --> 00:28:25.500
<v Speaker 1>Now you take that away from me and I don't know who I am anymore.

00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:27.554
<v Speaker 1>So getting them to shift from again.

00:28:27.554 --> 00:28:29.439
<v Speaker 1>Are you going to be a salesperson?

00:28:29.439 --> 00:28:32.936
<v Speaker 1>Are you going to be a fulfillment person?

00:28:32.936 --> 00:28:33.819
<v Speaker 1>Is that what you're going to do?

00:28:33.819 --> 00:28:38.374
<v Speaker 1>Are you going to be a coach in your own company, a consultant, or are you going to run the company Like what they're going to be?

00:28:38.374 --> 00:28:39.894
<v Speaker 1>You could be a player coach for a while.

00:28:40.769 --> 00:28:46.098
<v Speaker 1>Michael Jordan buys the Washington Wizards, wants to come in and play point guard or whatever for a bit.

00:28:46.098 --> 00:28:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Fine, he can do that.

00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:48.742
<v Speaker 1>He owns the business.

00:28:48.742 --> 00:28:56.734
<v Speaker 1>But at some point even he's got to acknowledge that his best skills are being up in the owner's box, not down on the court.

00:28:56.734 --> 00:29:04.702
<v Speaker 1>That shift, the shift from MVP most valuable player to owner, that's the shift that needs to take place.

00:29:04.702 --> 00:29:07.576
<v Speaker 1>So you realize that it is actually a higher status position.

00:29:07.576 --> 00:29:09.098
<v Speaker 1>Most of them can figure it out, yeah.

00:29:09.278 --> 00:29:11.289
<v Speaker 2>Most valuable owner Now.

00:29:11.289 --> 00:29:22.102
<v Speaker 2>Ryan, I would be shot if I didn't, on a podcast interview with you, ask you top four or five things marketing today, start of 2024.

00:29:22.102 --> 00:29:27.270
<v Speaker 2>What are the things that people should really be focused on right now successful marketing wise.

00:29:29.529 --> 00:29:30.432
<v Speaker 1>Where everything is headed.

00:29:30.432 --> 00:29:31.636
<v Speaker 1>It's going back to messaging.

00:29:31.636 --> 00:29:35.718
<v Speaker 1>If you think about what marketing is, marketing is two sides.

00:29:35.718 --> 00:29:40.441
<v Speaker 1>Marketing is the message, it's the offer, and then it's the amplification mechanism.

00:29:40.441 --> 00:29:45.615
<v Speaker 1>So advertising, traffic, all that stuff, just about all marketing is going to divide into those two things.

00:29:45.615 --> 00:29:46.900
<v Speaker 1>What's the message?

00:29:46.900 --> 00:29:48.053
<v Speaker 1>How are we amplifying it?

00:29:48.053 --> 00:29:53.181
<v Speaker 1>And over the past 10, 15 years, all of the opportunities have been on the amplification side.

00:29:53.181 --> 00:29:55.976
<v Speaker 1>Those who understood the algorithms better won.

00:29:55.976 --> 00:30:01.421
<v Speaker 1>Those who knew how to tweak the ad campaign, they won.

00:30:01.862 --> 00:30:09.611
<v Speaker 1>Now, with AI, which meta is leveraging all the campaign, there's not really a lot of advantages to be had on the media buy side.

00:30:09.611 --> 00:30:13.354
<v Speaker 1>All the advantage has shifted back to the messaging side.

00:30:13.354 --> 00:30:25.413
<v Speaker 1>So if you recall, if anybody's ever watched Mad Men, the old school advertising, it was all in the messaging and it was the copywriters and it was the people who came up with the campaign ideas.

00:30:25.413 --> 00:30:27.150
<v Speaker 1>They were the ones who won.

00:30:27.150 --> 00:30:29.030
<v Speaker 1>And the media buyers and the analytical folks?

00:30:29.030 --> 00:30:32.873
<v Speaker 1>Well, they were just being counters who were like, kept in another room that nobody talked to.

00:30:33.545 --> 00:30:36.471
<v Speaker 1>Well, the last that shifted the power shifted to the being counters.

00:30:36.471 --> 00:30:38.330
<v Speaker 1>It is now shifting back.

00:30:38.330 --> 00:30:45.771
<v Speaker 1>And so if you wanna be a great marketer today and in the future get great at messaging, because the other thing is AI, the emergency of AI.

00:30:45.771 --> 00:30:50.811
<v Speaker 1>That's just gonna help everybody get faster at producing pretty okay copy.

00:30:50.811 --> 00:31:01.210
<v Speaker 1>But it almost by definition, cannot produce breakthrough copy because it's simply the combined knowledge of what's come before and the breakthrough ideas, almost by definition, are new, or at least a new spin on it.

00:31:01.210 --> 00:31:04.412
<v Speaker 1>So ideas are what's gonna matter the most.

00:31:04.412 --> 00:31:08.473
<v Speaker 1>Study, read marketing books that are at least 50 years old.

00:31:09.204 --> 00:31:10.289
<v Speaker 2>My favorite books ever.

00:31:10.545 --> 00:31:11.923
<v Speaker 1>That's how you learn to go to marketing for the next 50 years.

00:31:12.125 --> 00:31:19.510
<v Speaker 2>Claude C Hopkins, John Capels, Drayton Bird oh my God, it takes me back to all of the old school marketers.

00:31:19.510 --> 00:31:24.991
<v Speaker 2>So when you're crafting a message today, top two or three things you think about.

00:31:25.125 --> 00:31:37.132
<v Speaker 1>when you're crafting a message today, what's the specific problem that we're speaking to, and so one of the things that we do, you've gotta meet people, you've gotta speak into the problem.

00:31:37.132 --> 00:31:39.573
<v Speaker 1>So many marketers are speaking into the category.

00:31:39.573 --> 00:31:50.932
<v Speaker 1>So we're the best CRM or we've got the best hypnosis sorry to say CDs God, that dates me, you know what I'm saying but they speak into a broad solution category.

00:31:50.932 --> 00:31:53.672
<v Speaker 1>That's really crowded, that's really expensive.

00:31:53.672 --> 00:31:54.528
<v Speaker 1>You don't wanna go there.

00:31:54.528 --> 00:32:02.855
<v Speaker 1>You wanna speak to people who are problem aware, and that means they're aware that they have a problem, but they haven't yet settled on a solution category.

00:32:03.444 --> 00:32:17.950
<v Speaker 1>The way that we do this, it's really really simple Do your market research, listen to your customers, but we will run ads now that are literally just a problem statement, a quote of a particular problem, and we will come up with 30,.

00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:26.092
<v Speaker 1>We'll research and brainstorm 30 problem statements and we will run ads to figure out what are the problem statements to get the highest engagement.

00:32:26.092 --> 00:32:31.631
<v Speaker 1>We don't even care what they're clicking through to, we just wanna know what are the ones that people are clicking on.

00:32:31.631 --> 00:32:35.314
<v Speaker 1>We'll have that's how we gather the market research.

00:32:35.314 --> 00:32:45.832
<v Speaker 1>And so advertising that speaks to problems and then the goal of marketing is to connect their problem with your specific solution and that happens in fallout, that happens in sales.

00:32:45.832 --> 00:32:47.730
<v Speaker 1>But start with the problem.

00:32:47.730 --> 00:32:49.692
<v Speaker 1>Make the solution connection after the fact.

00:32:50.125 --> 00:32:51.405
<v Speaker 2>Love it, Buddy.

00:32:51.405 --> 00:32:53.673
<v Speaker 2>Short, sharp answers.

00:32:53.673 --> 00:32:55.510
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'm gonna throw wood at you.

00:32:55.510 --> 00:33:01.173
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at Let me start with how do you succeed at relationships?

00:33:02.065 --> 00:33:07.192
<v Speaker 1>My wife and I, twice a year, open up the calendar and she gets first dibs.

00:33:07.192 --> 00:33:11.888
<v Speaker 1>So she will block out when we're gonna do family vacations and all those things and we don't have to know where we're going.

00:33:11.888 --> 00:33:16.651
<v Speaker 1>But as humans we show commitment with our wallets and our calendars, so she gets calendar dibs first.

00:33:17.825 --> 00:33:19.211
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at health?

00:33:20.605 --> 00:33:24.694
<v Speaker 1>God, I would argue right now, I don't.

00:33:24.694 --> 00:33:27.894
<v Speaker 1>I am not.

00:33:27.894 --> 00:33:29.829
<v Speaker 1>So here it really is.

00:33:29.829 --> 00:33:31.776
<v Speaker 1>I have micro habits.

00:33:32.065 --> 00:33:33.652
<v Speaker 2>How do you not succeed at health?

00:33:33.652 --> 00:33:34.710
<v Speaker 2>The Ryan answer.

00:33:36.444 --> 00:33:43.648
<v Speaker 1>What I for me, what I'm having, what I'm doing right now, is my gym clothes go out on the foot of my bed before I go to bed every morning and if I do that, I'll get up and I'll run, and if I don't, I won't.

00:33:43.648 --> 00:33:47.689
<v Speaker 1>So it's the micro habit and accountability I gotta have a coach.

00:33:48.545 --> 00:33:51.252
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at self development?

00:33:52.184 --> 00:33:59.711
<v Speaker 1>Be very intentional about your inputs, the books that you're reading and know why you're reading them.

00:33:59.924 --> 00:34:01.530
<v Speaker 2>Okay, how do you succeed at goals?

00:34:02.506 --> 00:34:06.810
<v Speaker 1>Back in, reverse engineer your goals into the habit changes that need to take place to achieve those goals.

00:34:07.546 --> 00:34:07.787
<v Speaker 2>Love it.

00:34:07.787 --> 00:34:15.655
<v Speaker 2>Final question what is your best quote you've ever read or the best advice you ever got on the subject of success?

00:34:16.385 --> 00:34:27.130
<v Speaker 1>I don't know who said it, but I once heard that both success and failure are temporary conditions, and I think it's important because it keeps you humble in the good times and it keeps you hopeful in the bad times.

00:34:27.851 --> 00:34:28.092
<v Speaker 2>Love it.

00:34:28.092 --> 00:34:30.492
<v Speaker 2>Big thanks to Ryan Dice for his time today.

00:34:30.492 --> 00:34:31.592
<v Speaker 2>Big success podcast.

00:34:31.592 --> 00:34:33.985
<v Speaker 2>Hit, subscribe, hit the buttons, all the things.

00:34:33.985 --> 00:34:39.851
<v Speaker 2>Make sure you're with us and hit the show notes, follow his stuff, read it, study it, get to know everything you can.

00:34:39.851 --> 00:34:42.300
<v Speaker 2>We'll be back next week with more of your success.