#27 Scott

Let's play truth or dare? Okay, go ahead, No, Jackie, 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:11.200 you cut out. You cut out. I couldn't hear if 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.040 you said truth or dare? Which one did you say? 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.160 No, I'm not willing, I'm not interested. I don't want 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:16.919 to play. 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:21.520 Have you ever have you ever peed in a shower? 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:26.680 Tell the truth? Have you ever peed in a shower? John, Jackie. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:28.760 That's just not a question, John. 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:29.840 Is it? 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:30.960 Because the answer is yes? 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:32.280 Affirmative? 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.200 Okay? Have you ever peed in a bathtub? 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:35.360 Negative? 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:37.279 You've never peed in a bathtub. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:38.200 That's disgusting. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:39.559 Why would you pee on yourself? 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:41.360 I'm not saying that I did. 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:41.320 You did? 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.320 You just said no, I didn't. Okay, Okay, you can. 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:46.240 You're surprised because. 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.680 I'm not in the hot seat. You are, You're. 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.600 Not at We're having a conversation. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:51.519 I want to have asation. 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:53.360 We are having a conversation. Okay, you could do you 0:00:53.360 --> 0:01:07.320 want to get conversation from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.880 and this is Heavyweight Today's episode. 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:23.800 Scott. Okay, we're rolling. 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.000 So Scott, first of all, thank you. Maybe the thing 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.120 to do would go on if you're lucky. The mistakes 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.880 you make as you move through life, are small and harmless, 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.800 calling your teacher mommy, leaving gum in your jeans in 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:42.560 the wash, or talking over the person you're trying to 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.760 talk to. No, no, sorry, sure, hang on a second, Yeah, yeah, 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:51.440 tell me, tell me more, Scott. But the mistake Scott 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.440 made wasn't the small kind. It was the big kind. 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.920 Big because it hurt his dad, one of the people 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.040 Scott loves most, and he's been trying to fix that 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:05.520 mistake for the past eight years. For Scott, the story 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.000 all begins when he was a kid, which is when 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:09.480 he first discovered drugs. 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.000 The first one was weed, you know, that was when 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.840 I was thirteen, and then alcohol, and then it quickly 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.080 kind of descended from there. So I first did cocaine 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.679 when I was fourteen fifteen, first did meth when I 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.119 was about fifteen, and then I was around that same 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:25.239 time that I found opiates. 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:29.200 Scott's mom suffered from chronic pain and there were always 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.920 pills in her medicine cabinet, stuff like OxyContin and fentanyl. 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.800 It is this feeling of like finding a missing piece 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.960 to a puzzle. All of a sudden, my anxiety was gone. 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.760 I didn't have as much self doubt, and I was 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.880 able to speak my mind and connect and talk and 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:50.720 approach girls. And at the time it really felt like 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:56.160 a cheat code that I would have for life. 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.960 And for a while it worked. Scott graduated high school, 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.720 then college and found his way into job as a 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.960 well paid graphic designer, but he was still using drugs 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.680 the way he always had to manage his anxiety and 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.639 make friends, like the friend who got him to shoot 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:10.960 Heroin for the first time. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.120 And I say friend now, but looking back on it, 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.680 we weren't necessarily friends at all. But he said, if 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.040 you can give me a ride to go pick up 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.760 some drugs, then I'll give you some for your trouble. 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:26.399 And so we're driving down I seventy. He's in shotgun. 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.880 I'm in the driver's seat with my arm extended out 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.720 over the middle part of the car as he shoots 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:36.320 me up for the first time and I instantly passed 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.320 out and kind of swerved across three lanes before he 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.240 grabbed the wheel, and then I kind of came back 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:50.120 to a foot away from hitting a guard rail that 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:54.040 right there just threw gasoline onto the fire. It went 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.280 from you know, doing it on the weekends once or 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.120 twice a month, to doing it every weekend, to doing 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.640 it every few days every other day. 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.240 Within a year, Scott lost his job and moved into 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.680 his dad's basement, back into his childhood home in Colorado. 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.440 He still needed to get high every day and now 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.560 had no money. There were boxes in the basement filled 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.240 with old jewelry and silverware, stuff that had belonged to 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.880 Scott's mom before she passed away. So Scott started stealing 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.560 stuff from the boxes to bring to a pawnshop down 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.840 the road. He figured an item or two wouldn't be missed, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.680 but pretty soon it became a daily thing. 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.440 All the while, the voice in the back of my 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.599 head was still there, knowing what was right and was wrong, 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:37.919 and so I felt immense guilt. 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.960 Soon the boxes were empty, and Scott began to eye 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.960 other things, things right out in the open, things that 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:46.480 belonged to his dad. 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:48.440 So like a radio on the shelf, just right there 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.560 in the living room, taking that, and then a baseball 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.120 signed by the early thirties New York Yankees, you know, 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.480 Babe Ruth and Louke Rig and everything like that. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.480 Did your dad know what was going on? 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.080 I mean, my dad is a very unique person. He's 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:10.480 kind of like chronically petrified of direct conversations. 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:10.960 You know. 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.080 I remember, even as a kid, he would have me 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.320 order the pizza, you know, when we were ordering a 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:17.080 pizza or something like that, because he didn't want to 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:18.200 talk to the person on the phone. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.040 So Scott's dad never brought up the missing stuff until 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.359 Scott started taking money. 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:27.240 I knew right where his checkbook was, you know, it 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.279 was right there on the secretary by the front door, 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.160 and I had a light table where I put down 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.240 a piece of paperwork that i'd found with his signature 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:36.520 on it, and then put the check over it and 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:37.600 kind of traced over it. 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.479 The checks were small, sixty dollars here and there, but 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.960 soon the account was thousands of dollars overdrawn. So his 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.560 dad had to make a decision. It was one thing 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.440 for a clock to go missing, another thing entirely for 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.400 his savings to disappear. So the man who couldn't bring 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.119 himself to pick up the phone to order pizza, picked 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.799 up the phone and reported his son to the police. 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.240 So then they piled me into the back of the 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.479 police car and then brought me to the jail. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:07.920 Were you scared at this point? 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.200 I was petrified. I was petrified of the legal consequences 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:13.920 I had, but I think I was equally or more 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.440 petrified of the detox that I knew that was coming. 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.320 I remember scrawling out the hours I was sober on 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.520 a little jail house notepad that they give you, And 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.599 you know, I was doing three hundred dollars a day 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.320 of heroin at that point. So it was a really, really, 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:38.880 really bad withdraw. There was just a series of horrible 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.280 days where I just couldn't stop crying. I would have 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:46.600 these kind of vivid dreams of seeing family or being happy, 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.360 and then wake up to realize I'm still in a 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:50.000 jail cell. 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.200 A couple of weeks into his detention, a garbled voice 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.240 came over the loudspeaker. Scott had a visitor. 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.440 Nobody had visited me yet, and so I thought it 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.640 was a mistake at first, And so I go up 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.680 there and there's my dad come to visit me. 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:11.280 But Scott's father wasn't there to offer support. He was 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.280 there to present his son with a list of all 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.040 the things he'd stolen. The radios, the watch collection, the 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:21.680 family silver. It was two columns containing some fifty items, 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.640 and at the very top of the page. 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:31.520 His most prized possession, the Luger, this German pistol that 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.600 my grandfather had taken off of a German in World 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:40.760 War II. This gun was something that I knew was 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.720 like his pride and joy. That was like the quintessential 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.520 memento and the biggest piece that my dad had to 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.960 remember his dad by. And so that was the one 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.320 big thing that I had promised myself that I would 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.920 never take, and I took it. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.120 Of all the things Scott had stolen from his dad, 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.240 of all the mistakes he'd made, this is the one 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:10.360 he regrets most. 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:16.559 I've only seen my father cry when his dad passed away, 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:21.280 when my mom passed away, and in that jail when 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.960 he was telling me about him knowing about the gun 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:30.320 being gone. You know, this was a piece of his 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.280 father that he thought he would be able to hold 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.760 on to for the rest of his life. And I 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.760 sold for fourteen hundred dollars worth of drugs. 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.319 For four months, Scott sat in jail awaiting trial. When 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.280 he was finally sentenced, the judge decided to dismiss the 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.680 charges if Scott completed this two year treatment program that 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.320 was modeled on rehab programs from the seventies. Scott would 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.200 have to shave his head and scrub the floors with 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:57.400 a toothbrush, that. 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:58.000 Kind of thing. 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.439 The judge told Scott that the roughly three hundred people 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.199 he'd sent there, none had made it through. 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.240 So that was encouraging right at the very beginning. But 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.959 as like, get me in, whatever I need to do, 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:12.640 I'm going to do it. 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.200 After two years, Scott walked out of the facility and 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.800 he's been clean since. He has a wife, two young kids, 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.080 and a job at a residential treatment facility in Colorado 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.880 where he works with addicts and their families. He's trying 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:29.760 to make up for who he used to be by 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.160 paying it forward. But there's one person he's never been 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:34.120 able to pay back. 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.600 I have all but forgiven myself for a lot of 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:41.280 the things that I've done in the past, but this 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.199 is one thing that, no matter the amount of counseling, 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.360 it still bothers me on the deepest level that I 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:49.640 did this to my dad. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.760 So about five years ago, Scott took his dad's list 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.439 of the stolen items and set off to recover the 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.400 luger along with everything else. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:00.800 So I went to the old ante stores that I 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:02.800 used to go to. I went to the old sports 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.400 memorabilia spot to see if I could track down the 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:06.680 baseball that I had sold. 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.960 He succeeded in getting some things back, a Crossley antique radio, 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.640 a Ham radio, and that Christmas with his sister, all 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.040 his aunts and uncles gathered round, Scott surprised his dad 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.640 with the items he'd recovered. Scott was feeling pretty proud 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.119 of himself until Uncle Bill piped up and. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.840 My uncle, you know, basically says, oh, well, he's the luger. 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:30.400 In there is the luger, one of the things that 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:31.200 you were able to get back. 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.760 Uncle Bill was close with Scott's grandfather. Like him, he'd 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.920 also served in the military. He believed the luger should 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.720 have been his to begin with, not a little brothers. 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:46.120 And I was like, no, no, I wasn't able to 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.480 find that. And then that led to probably about a 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.520 ten minute spiel of his about how important that gun 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.360 was to him. And I remember the day when I 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.160 found out that that was stolen. It still bothers me. 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.480 And it was just like in the middle of Christmas 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.800 morning and we're handing out presents and every word that 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.720 he said, just like, ugh, it felt like a kick 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:09.200 in the gut. 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.080 And how do you think it made your father feel. 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.000 Very uncomfortable, very uncomfortable. 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.199 Yeah, yeah, But he's. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.080 Not the type of person that would toss it back 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:19.720 in my face. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:20.040 You know. 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:23.400 That's kind of my uncle's style, but not necessarily his. 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.480 Although Scott's dad didn't say anything, Scott understood that his 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.080 dad felt the same way as Uncle Bill, that it 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.680 was nice to have all those items returned, but the 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.240 only one he really cared about was the luger and 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.040 it was gone all because of Scott. 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.320 I know that there's still trust issues there. I know 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.680 that there's still pain there, and I've told him over 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:53.199 the years that I'm going to do what I can 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.760 to try and get it back. And I know by 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.080 the glean in his eye that that would matter quite 0:11:58.080 --> 0:11:59.960 a bit, and that if I am able to track 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.280 this down, it would be seismic. 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.640 No matter what Scott accomplishes in life or how good 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.920 he feels, there's always that nagging voice that cries out, 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.199 what about the luger? Were you able to get that back? 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.439 Even when Scott is relaxing in front of the TV, 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.520 if anything about World War two comes on, he has 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.720 to change the channel, and so Scott's come to me. 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.400 He wants to find his grandfather's luger and has no 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.680 idea where to begin. My first thought is why me? 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.760 Why not the guys from Firearms Chat podcast, The Reloading Podcast, 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:43.959 Wasted Ammo Podcast, Socialist Rifle Association Podcast, Concealed Carry Podcast, 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:48.199 New Shooter Canada, or gun Girl Radio, the Firearm show 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.320 for the Second Amendment. Woman, I'm more the wistful type 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.520 than the pistol type, more the pun type than the 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.360 gun type. Do you think we'll have to go to 0:12:58.400 --> 0:12:59.040 a gun show? 0:12:59.600 --> 0:12:59.920 I don't know. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.880 Oh, I think it just kind of depends on where it. 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.840 Ended up, like the thing that's a little scary. And 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.400 maybe I'm completely like out of line with thinking this, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.600 but is it possible like that these guns can filter 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:16.440 back into like a kind of nether world. 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.480 Of like Nazi sympathizer people. 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:23.959 Exactly like, yeah, it's possible. Yeah, I don't abide by 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:32.560 Nazi sympathizers, but I'm rapidly becoming a Skatzi sympathizer. As 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.680 Anton Chekhov once said, if a gun shows up in 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.520 the first act, it must be fired in the second 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.520 and that's a lot of presh. But as Jonathan Goldstein 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.280 once said, if a gun's to be fired at all, 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.080 please don't let it hit me in the wallet, because 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.440 that's where I keep the charge card I use for 0:13:50.559 --> 0:14:01.200 purchasing quality products like the ones coming your way. Not 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.080 knowing where to start, I spend several hours on a 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.800 gun collector's discussion board run by someone named Jan with 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.920 an iron cross for an avatar. I introduce myself to 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.720 my fellow gun nuts and announce that I'm looking for 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.840 a gun. Right away, an Internet pop up pops up, 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.880 telling me that my content has been blocked and to 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:29.360 quote see administrator. Immediately after the Gimblet Media HR department 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:36.520 confiscates my computer, I unholster my weapon of choice, the telephone. 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.560 I dial gun dealerships all over the country to seek advice. 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.040 It's going to be almost impossible. 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.280 There may not be any type of record. 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.760 Because it could just be in some private collector's collection. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:49.520 It's gonna be hard for you. I'm gonna tell you 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:49.960 straight up. 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:51.920 Do you know when it was sold? 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.000 Do you have any type of serial number? 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:59.960 Of course a serial number. Scott doesn't know the serial number, 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:02.120 but he admits there's one person who. 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.520 Might Uncle Bill, my dad's older brother. 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:11.360 Yeah, mister Christmas Morning himself. Are you in touch with 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:11.920 your uncle? 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.040 I am, I mean not a ton, but I am. 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.880 Yeah, So maybe he would. He would be a place 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:20.400 to start. 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:35.240 Now, I'm uh, I mean, of course, there's a cloud 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.880 of anxiety. My chest starts tightening when I think about 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:39.680 actually doing it. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.040 Shortness of breath would come next, then burning in the 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.960 chestel region. It was sounding to this reporter like the 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.280 healing process had already begun. 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.240 But maybe we could both do it. Yeah, we could 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:54.440 do a three person call. 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.160 So with me on the line as this emotional defibrillator, 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:00.000 Scott dials up Uncle Bill. 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:12.360 Bill Good. After that Bill, Hello, Uncle Bill, how are you? 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.080 I'm good, mister Goldstein. 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:22.080 Yeah, Hi. After Scott and I jockey over who will 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.800 hide behind who's petty coats? Scott boldly peers out from 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.280 behind my petty coats and asks Uncle Bill about the 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:30.080 serial number. 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.800 I believe it had a fairly low serial number, but 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.760 unfortunately we never took a photo of the writing on 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.119 the inside of the holster. 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.080 So you don't have the serial number. 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:41.200 I do not. 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.480 But the moment we bring up the gun. It's Christmas 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.040 Morning all over again. 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.600 It's a piece of history of his history. That was 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.200 part of what formed him to be the man that 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.720 I knew. And that's about all we have from him 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.560 from that era, and now we don't have that. 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.000 When Uncle Bill speaks to the gun, it's as though Scott, 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.320 the person responsible for its disappearance, isn't there, even when 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:17.920 he pipes up to defend himself. 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.879 The gun disappeared to help beat his habit, and I 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.920 was royally pissed at him. 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:27.400 Yeah, I paid off every cent. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.120 I'm happy with his dad either. 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:30.159 You know. 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:31.920 It wasn't like I was going to go and beat 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.800 him up or anything, but I was pissed that he 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:36.680 felt the need to quote, keep it safe, and then 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.199 he didn't keep it safe. 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.800 Do you still feel like you fault your brother for that? 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:44.760 Somewhat? 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:50.440 Now? 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:54.080 The reality of World War two vents is that they 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:58.080 didn't really like to talk about the war. We didn't 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:03.640 have PTSD as doss. The damage was usually doubtless with alcohol, 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.000 and he a loveful lot of them drank too much, 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:08.680 and that's how they self medicated. 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.560 After the war. Scott's grandfather became an alcoholic. He spent 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:16.639 his days in an easy chair with a glass in 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.960 his hand, and in the evenings he kept a bottle 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.520 of whiskey on the nightstand to make sure he didn't 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:25.240 wake up in a withdrawal Like the Luger. It seems 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.480 addiction has also been a part of Scott's family for decades. 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.119 Before getting off the phone, Uncle Bill does offer a 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.320 couple helpful bits of information. He tells us that the 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.199 Luger was a mouser and that returning World War II 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:46.879 soldiers were often issued something called bring back papers, documents 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.280 detailing any items they took home. If he could find 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.480 those papers, Bill says there's a chance the gun's serial 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.840 number might be there. He also says that if anyone 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.760 has the bringback papers, it'd be Scott's older sister, Mary, 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.240 the family record keeper and also one of Scott's biggest supporters. 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.600 She's a good person and an honest one. 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.040 When Scott was in jail, Mary was the one who 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.440 visited most, gave him money for the commissary, and helped 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.399 him with his court case. When I explained the length 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.359 Scott's going through to get their dad's gun back, Mary 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.679 becomes emotional. The whole thing reminds her of a story 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.000 from when they were kids. Mary Scott and their dad 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:28.120 had gone out shopping. 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.160 He accidentally stole a bookmark from the store, just because he. 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:33.800 Thought we had paid for it and we hadn't, and 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:35.200 he cried all the way home and. 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:36.680 Made us go all the way back to the store 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.520 almost an hour away, to return it. 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.400 Mary still sees her little brother as the same well 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.800 meaning kid who's trying to make things right. She's not 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.439 sure she has the bringback papers, but wants to help, 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.880 so over the weekend she digs through their grandfather's old stuff. 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.440 She finds wartime postcards, letters to their grandmother, photos of 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:00.159 their grandfather and his army buddies huddled in fox holes. 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.520 And then she found the actual document, the Bringback Papers. 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:06.560 Holy cow, Okay, so. 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.000 What and now it's pretty crazy. 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.000 Yeah, it's yellowing with it almost looks like it as 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.800 a coffee stains right through the middle. And then it 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:21.359 has just written in underneath it Luger pistol cerial number 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:22.560 four five nine. 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:32.240 WOWI hi Giovanni, how are you Johnson? I'm good? How 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:32.560 are you? 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:34.080 I'm doing well, doing well? 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.840 I get Giovanni's number from another gun dealer who tells 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:39.800 me that if I'm looking for a World War two 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:44.119 era luger, Giovanni is my man. Giovanni owns one of 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:48.000 Colorado's largest historical firearm shops and is something of an 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:52.000 expert in lugers, and so armed with the serial number, 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.280 I get ready to make some headway. The serial number 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:56.600 is four or five nine? 0:20:58.160 --> 0:20:58.520 Okay? 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:03.760 No, you have any incomplete? Say on them. 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:08.120 Giovanni explains that luger's serial numbers have both numbers and letters, 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:10.600 so there could be a four five nine, A four 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:14.240 five nine B and so on. I re examined the 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:15.400 scan Scott sent me. 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:16.480 But no letter. 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.440 How many four five nine serial number guns are there? 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:29.600 Probably out there lugers probably about. 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:31.359 It could be one hundred. 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.320 Hoping to narrow the pool, I tell Giovanni it wasn't 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:40.280 just any luger, It was a mouser. Does that give 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:45.080 you an okay? So, in giving you that serial number, 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:46.720 it's not like you can look it up in a 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:47.920 database or anything. 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:49.720 No, oh, absolutely not. 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:50.560 No. 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:55.160 What would you do if you were trying to track 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:55.840 down this gun? 0:21:58.800 --> 0:21:59.520 I will get up. 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.919 Before hanging up, Giovanni says, there's one last thing we 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.960 could try retracing the gun's path, go back to the 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.280 pawnshop clerk to see if he has a record of 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.520 who he sold the gun to. Giovanni says the clerk 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.880 has no obligation to reveal that information, but it's worth 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:26.479 a shot. The clerk's name is George, and he and 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.320 Scott were friendly back when Scott was living with his dad. 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.679 They're still connected on Facebook. So Scott messages asking if 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.240 George might be willing to talk to us, and George says. 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:41.560 Yes, and then he calls me back a couple minutes later, 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:42.520 just in tears. 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:45.159 It turns out that when George bought the gun from 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:48.600 Scott eight years ago, he intended to keep it for himself. 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:52.720 At the time, George and his wife were expecting a baby. 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.040 And about two weeks after I had sold him that gun, 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:59.680 he found out his wife had brain cancer. Oh my god, 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:03.600 really aggressive brain cancer, and she ended up having to 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:07.640 go undergo really aggressive radiation, and so because of that, 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:08.960 they ended up losing the baby. 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.919 Just months after buying the gun from Scott, George sold 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.879 it to pay for his wife's medical bills. 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:19.840 And then she passed away a number of months after that, 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:23.120 and It just brings up these kind of horrible memories 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.040 that he's trying to avoid diving back into. 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:30.960 Each time the gun has changed hands, it seems it's 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:40.360 been in the midst of violence, desperation, and personal tragedy. Well, 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.200 George doesn't want to talk. He does remember the name 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:45.879 of the person he sold the gun to, the owner 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:49.080 of a rare coin and gold boullion shop, a man 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:49.880 named Klaus. 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:55.360 I just keep my collecting interest private. You know, some 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:58.800 people think just because you buy Nazi guns that you 0:23:58.800 --> 0:23:59.440 are na seen. 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.000 When I first phone Klaus at his store, he's reluctant 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:06.120 to talk. He's nervous about being judged for his hobby. 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:09.840 I'm a collector, but you know, some people associated collecting 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:14.480 World War two German and mirabilia with you know, Nazism. 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.800 I reassure Klaus that that's not what I think, But 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:20.400 over the course of our phone call, I become less 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:21.479 sure of what I think. 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:25.320 I have a Luger serial number seven. What makes it 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:30.760 so interesting that Hitler's party pen number was number seven, 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:35.639 so he was, you know, the party member number seven. 0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:37.600 I have a number seven Luger. 0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:40.400 How did you acquire something like that? 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:49.520 Ah? I have some things that are very, very unusual. 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.280 You know, I came I'm an immigrant. 0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:55.280 I came from Germany. 0:24:56.520 --> 0:25:04.280 My grandfather was a Nazi officer, and my father was 0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:05.000 was in the youth. 0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:11.320 I have many questions for Klaus. First and foremost, why 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:15.160 are you telling me Jonathan Goldstein about your familial ties 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:19.000 to the Nazis. But I'm not here to interrogate Klaus. 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:22.200 I'm here to find Scott's gun. So I try to 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:25.240 steer us back on track. I tell Klaus that I'm 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:28.359 calling on behalf of a man named Scott, whose grandfather 0:25:28.440 --> 0:25:31.440 once owned a Mauser Luger that George sold to him 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:35.520 some years ago. Klaus tells me that's not possible. He 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:38.080 tells me he never bought a gun from George. He 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:41.320 doesn't even know who George is. And besides, he says 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:45.879 he's never owned a Mauser Luger. Maybe you're mistaken. I say, 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:51.040 all these guns kind of look alike, black, shiny shooty. 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:54.320 Maybe you lost track of it, maybe it fell behind 0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:58.800 the couch. Klaus tells me he'll look around, but he's noncommittal, 0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:04.720 just trying to get off the phone. Then at eleven 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:10.280 thirteen PM, I get a text Hello Jonathan. It reads 0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:17.560 call me at your convenience, and speaking of convenience, no 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:20.360 need to so much as move a muscle, because I'm 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:23.200 about to march right over there and dump a truckload 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:25.720 of savings directly onto your face. 0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:37.240 This. 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:41.719 Hey, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking. How are you well. 0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:45.320 I have some news for you. I found the gun? 0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:51.760 What Yeah, are you kidding me? No? 0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:52.800 No, are you kidding me? 0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:53.240 No? 0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:54.879 Oh my god? 0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:58.080 Yeah? You found it? Yes? 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:05.400 Wow, Yeah, I'm blown away. 0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:10.639 It's a matter of whether we'll be able to get it. Okay, 0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:14.200 it's still in Klaus's possession. 0:27:15.160 --> 0:27:16.320 So did you talk to him? 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:23.040 I did, and uh, it was an interesting conversation. So 0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:25.520 you found you found the gun? 0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:28.400 Yeah, you know, I was surprised last night. It took 0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:32.200 a look and I went into my vault room and 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:33.800 I found it. 0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:37.560 The luger was still in the original holster. Attached to 0:27:37.600 --> 0:27:41.720 it was a tag with Scott's grandfather's name. Would you 0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:47.880 be open to the idea of selling it back to him? 0:27:48.119 --> 0:28:00.399 Well, my first thought is probably not. It's just that 0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:03.920 I legally purchased the gun, and I mean, I'm a collector, 0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:06.040 and you know I paid for it. 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.280 So I mean, would you would you say that his 0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:11.520 grandfather paid for it with his service. 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:18.040 I mean it's war bounty that someone brought it over 0:28:18.119 --> 0:28:21.360 from Germany. You know, he didn't pay for it. 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:26.800 From Klaus's perspective, the gun Scott stole was already stolen property. 0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:30.719 He took it off as a German officer. And you know, 0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:35.879 as we spoke prior, my grandfather was an officer in 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:39.040 World War Two, and you know, my thoughts were a chia. 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:46.120 You know, could that gun been here? At this point, 0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:48.959 I'm not really compelled to let go of the gun, 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:50.800 but I still give it some thoughts. 0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:58.000 So the way that we left it was he said 0:28:58.000 --> 0:28:59.000 that he'd think about it. 0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:04.440 Okay, well, I won't start celebrating yet, but we know 0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:07.320 who has it, we know where it is. So now 0:29:07.360 --> 0:29:11.280 it's just kind of tactfully figuring out what it's going 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:12.880 to take to get it back. 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:20.560 I really do respect your optimism. I don't think we're 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:25.520 going to get the gun back. Personally, I'm going to try. 0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:27.760 We're going to get that gun. 0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:32.120 Since Scott's not ready to admit defeat, I suggest he 0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:35.200 tried making his case directly to Klaus in a letter. 0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:38.840 So Scott writes from the heart. He explains the full 0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:41.800 story of his addiction, his time in jail, and his 0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:45.480 guilt about his dad. My greatest regret was that I 0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:47.840 would never be able to get this heirloom back in 0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:51.440 the hands of my father, Scott writes, But now, for 0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:55.840 the first time, that seems like a possibility. Eight years ago, 0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:58.480 I was so addicted to Heroin that I was pretty 0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:01.520 sure I was going to die. That fact has since 0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:05.880 been replaced with another, more hope filled one second chances 0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:10.800 are real. Klaus receives the letter but offers no response. 0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:18.479 Two weeks go by and still we hear nothing, so 0:30:18.520 --> 0:30:22.880 I send another email. Klaus's answer is short. I have 0:30:22.960 --> 0:30:25.800 considered Scott's response and I have decided to not sell 0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.560 the gun at this time. If my position ever changes, 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:32.600 I will contact you, Klaus. 0:30:33.040 --> 0:30:36.920 That's just ridiculous. Settling on the fact that we know 0:30:37.000 --> 0:30:41.040 where it is and not getting it back. That's just 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:45.480 like super frustrating. I mean, there's got to be something 0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:45.959 we can do. 0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:49.560 Scott says he's willing to pay whatever Klaus wants for 0:30:49.640 --> 0:30:54.040 the gun, so again I contact Klaus. It's not a 0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:58.120 money issue. Klaus responds, almost immediately. I am just not 0:30:58.280 --> 0:31:03.480 interested in selling a gun to an individual. I can't 0:31:03.520 --> 0:31:07.520 figure out what exactly Klaus means by an individual. Maybe 0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:10.760 in the past he sold guns to organizations or museums. 0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:15.240 When I write him back, he responds with this, based 0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:18.360 on the background information, I would not sell this gun 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:23.560 back to Scott. So it's not really an individual per se, 0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:28.760 it's this individual. Scott's letter hadn't made Klaus feel sympathetic. 0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:32.800 It made him feel nervous. Like with Scott's criminal past, 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:35.920 A gun and a second chance might not make for 0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:41.920 a great combo. If there was any hope, it's now gone. Well, 0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:43.280 I have an update. 0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:44.640 Update. Okay. 0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:48.040 A couple days later, I catch Scott at work. Yeah, 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:54.000 I have another update. Uh huh, it looks like Klaus 0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:55.640 is willing to sell the gun. 0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:58.680 Oh you're kidding me. 0:31:59.160 --> 0:32:02.560 No, you were right. You were right to be hopeful. 0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:07.000 I did not think that I was going to be 0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:08.240 reporting this back to you. 0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:09.480 What brought it about? 0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:10.480 What changed his mind? 0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:14.200 I'd asked Klaus the same question. It seemed as though 0:32:14.280 --> 0:32:15.960 over the weekend you had a change of heart. 0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:18.800 I figured you were going to haunt me until I 0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:21.480 finally get it back to the guy. 0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:23.040 I probably would. 0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:26.280 I just thought, you know, it seems like the guy 0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:31.200 really wanted that item back, So yeah, I just didn't 0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:32.440 want to be haunted about it. 0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:36.320 So oh, I can't even believe it. 0:32:37.360 --> 0:32:39.680 But there was still one thing that Klaus hadn't changed 0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:42.600 his mind about, and I feel bad having to tell Scott. 0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:45.320 He is saying that he is willing to sell the gun, 0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:50.440 but he won't sell it to you. Klaus doesn't trust 0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:52.400 Scott bottom line. 0:32:52.440 --> 0:32:54.120 I mean, he doesn't know me. He doesn't know that 0:32:54.400 --> 0:33:00.040 it's become a contributing member of society. 0:32:58.240 --> 0:33:01.320 After everything Scott's done to redeem it himself, the rehab, 0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:06.560 the good works. Klaus's judgment stings, but Scott gets it. 0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:10.120 It's something he's experienced before. People accusing him of theft 0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:13.120 when things go missing, women breaking things off when they 0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:16.120 learn he was once an addict. The world still sees 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:19.920 Scott as a bad bet, but he sweeps aside his 0:33:19.960 --> 0:33:23.680 feelings to address the more pressing question, who can we 0:33:23.720 --> 0:33:27.120 get to buy the gun? The first person that comes 0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:29.560 to my mind is the person who's always believed in 0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:31.720 Scott most. What about your sister? 0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:35.640 Yeah, absolutely no, she would be totally open and willing 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:37.880 to do that, oh, one hundred percent. 0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:40.440 Well, it looks like we're going to be buying a gun. 0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:41.560 Let's buy a gun. 0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:48.000 That's right, except we don't. After looking into Colorado's complicated 0:33:48.040 --> 0:33:51.040 gun laws, we learn that because Mary's not a full 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:54.360 time Colorado resident, it's illegal for her to buy the gun, 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:58.600 so we discuss options. Scott's wife could buy it and 0:33:58.640 --> 0:34:02.480 give it to his dad, but that's also illegal in Colorado. 0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:06.719 Only blood relatives can gift each other guns. We consider 0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:10.480 Uncle Bill totally legal, but Scott's worried he'd buy it 0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:13.840 and then want to keep it for himself. Out of 0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:17.080 viable family members, we consider getting a middleman to buy 0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:19.799 the gun from Klaus, then sell it to Scott, who 0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:22.360 can then give it to his dad. But as it 0:34:22.400 --> 0:34:25.440 turns out, there's a term for this, a straw purchase, 0:34:25.880 --> 0:34:32.600 and it's a federal felony. It's been nearly two weeks 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:36.000 of phone calls with Scott, with lawyers with the Colorado 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:39.920 Firearms Unit, and with each passing day, I become increasingly 0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:43.960 nervous about Klaus changing his mind. So I present Scott 0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:47.800 with what might be our last remaining option. His dad 0:34:48.480 --> 0:34:54.080 win Scott falls silent for the first time in the 0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:57.960 course of this quest. He seems defeated. The thought of 0:34:58.000 --> 0:35:00.560 placing his father, Win, the man of afraid of the 0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:03.759 crack voiced pizza boy, in a room with Klaus, the 0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:06.000 man with the gun vault, and the luger that may 0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:08.960 or may not have belonged to Adolf Hitler, makes him 0:35:08.960 --> 0:35:12.680 wonder if maybe it's all just gone too far. But 0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:15.280 at this point it's the only way to get the gun, 0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:23.080 so Scott agrees Win will buy the luger. After the break, 0:35:23.800 --> 0:35:32.080 Win and Klaus. 0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:38.600 Hell. 0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:41.040 Scott and his dad Win meet me on the way 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:45.960 to see Klaus. Mary's here too, She's come along for support. 0:35:46.800 --> 0:35:48.880 Klaus told us to meet him at a gun shop. 0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:51.600 He knows where they can run the necessary background check. 0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:53.719 We all get into Scott's. 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:56.400 Car, people with microphones and stuff. 0:35:59.320 --> 0:36:02.640 Scott's dad, Win is seated up front. He's brought along 0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:06.000 the luger's empty case, which sits on his lap. When 0:36:06.120 --> 0:36:08.920 is bride eyed and smiley, but knowing from Scott how 0:36:08.960 --> 0:36:11.920 shy and nervous his dad can be, gives his jolliness 0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:13.280 a slightly forced quality. 0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:14.479 All the road work. 0:36:14.920 --> 0:36:18.040 Case in point, when our eta gets pushed back due 0:36:18.080 --> 0:36:26.120 to roadwork. Win bursts into song o work or this 0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:28.920 is when, as Scott tells us about his day, is 0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:32.600 pretty dark day? When is the one giggling in the background. 0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:37.719 I got four people into detox programs this morning, so 0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:43.799 a lot of distraught parents and overdosing teenagers to deal 0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:44.560 with this morning. 0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:52.719 The destination is on your left. Maybe you can even 0:36:52.760 --> 0:36:55.160 pull in. Oh what is a private parky? We pull 0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:56.960 into a parking lot and we all get out of 0:36:56.960 --> 0:37:00.960 the car, all except for Scott. After the way Klaus 0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:03.480 responded to his letter, he's afraid if he goes in 0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:04.799 he'll blow the whole deal. 0:37:05.200 --> 0:37:06.640 Who We'll be right back? Cool? 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:09.360 Well, have fun? 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:10.600 Yes, all right. 0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:15.480 From behind the windshield, Scott watches as his father ambles 0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:19.320 towards the gun shop, empty gun case in his hand. 0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:25.000 I can imagine how Scott's feeling. Scott already believes he's 0:37:25.040 --> 0:37:28.040 failed his dad in so many ways. Sending him to 0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:30.640 buy back his own gun in a rundown looking gun 0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:33.640 shop with bars on the windows must feel like one 0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:42.080 more failing. Let's buy ourselves a gun. 0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:43.080 Time to buy a gun. 0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:48.880 At the door, a large man wearing sunglasses and a 0:37:48.920 --> 0:37:54.880 holstered gun silently greets us wind Ducks. Inside the walls 0:37:54.880 --> 0:37:57.720 and shelves of the gun shop are full of Nazi metals, 0:37:57.800 --> 0:38:03.719 Nazi helmets, Nazi hats, uniforms, guns, and Swastika armbands. And 0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:06.960 at the center of it all is Klaus, who is 0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:10.960 at present chummily talking to a large tattooed clerk with 0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:15.759 a white goatee. They quiet down when Win, Mary and 0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:22.399 I approach. Klaus appears to be in his sixties. He's 0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:26.120 a slight man with thinning, slick back hair. Winn walks over, 0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:30.279 smiling nervously as Klaus turns to greet him, and then 0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:34.200 the grandson of a Nazi officer shakes hands with the 0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:41.640 son of an American soldier. As Mary and Klaus introduce themselves, 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:45.480 I adjust the levels on my recorder. The goateed man 0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:48.200 has a look about him that says I don't listen 0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:52.240 to podcasts just the same. I take a deep breath, 0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:55.879 scoop my testes out of my MPR tote bag, and, 0:38:56.480 --> 0:39:00.600 in my best vocal approximation of Ira glass manned my 0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:01.880 journalistic rights. 0:39:02.880 --> 0:39:04.040 Uh, and. 0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:07.880 Would it be okay if we were to be recording 0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:11.640 for the thing they we're doing in the background. Absolutely no, okay, 0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:12.400 absolutely no. 0:39:13.080 --> 0:39:13.400 Cut it. 0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:20.279 The luger sits on a glass display counter. Winn walks over. 0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:24.239 That's it, he says, his father took it off of 0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:28.600 my grandfather. Klaus jokes to the goateed man, the gun 0:39:28.680 --> 0:39:32.160 is pristine. Mary and I take turns holding it. It's 0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:36.399 heavier than we expect. Win hands a driver's license over 0:39:36.520 --> 0:39:40.800 for the background check. While we wait, there's an awkward silence. 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:44.680 I consider asking if anyone seen Mama Mia too. Here 0:39:44.719 --> 0:39:47.600 we go again, and if so, whether they thought the 0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:51.200 closing super Trooper number at the Hotel Belladonna was a 0:39:51.200 --> 0:39:55.680 bit much. But before I can clear my throat of anxiety, mucus, 0:39:56.040 --> 0:40:00.399 the background check is complete. After all the hoop law 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:04.840 it took all of ten minutes. Wind gives Klaus the 0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:08.279 money and Klaus gives Win the gun. For perhaps the 0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:13.560 first time ever, the luger changes hands without incident. Klaus 0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:17.000 watches as Winn carefully places the gun back into its case. 0:40:18.160 --> 0:40:20.880 Don't let it get out of the family anymore, he says. 0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:24.000 As the goateed man watches us wind our way to 0:40:24.080 --> 0:40:33.120 the exit on the right back. Everyone is quiet I 0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:37.160 imagine Scott is feeling relief Mary Pride and her brother, 0:40:38.160 --> 0:40:41.240 but watching Win in the front seat, staring out the window, 0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:44.279 gun case at his feet, it's hard to say what 0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:44.920 he's feeling. 0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:51.880 God, this is crazy to see. 0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:56.080 At Mary's apartment, we all huddle around the dining room table. 0:40:56.600 --> 0:41:00.320 Scott's grandfather's gun has been placed at the center. Scott 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:02.759 and Mary marvel at it, but I'm amazed at the 0:41:02.800 --> 0:41:05.879 tag is still on it. Yeah, and it has a number. 0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:07.799 Four or five nine? 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.680 Look at that. This is crazy. 0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:13.200 You understand how crazy this is. 0:41:15.440 --> 0:41:18.399 If Winn does understand how crazy it is, it's hard 0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:22.840 to tell. There's something muted about his response. In fact, 0:41:23.160 --> 0:41:26.560 since we've entered the apartment, Wind hasn't seemed interested in 0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:29.640 his father's gun at all. When Scott asks him if 0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:33.440 he'd like to hold it, he declines, Well, Scott and 0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:37.000 Mary passed their grandfather's gun between them. Winn sits silently. 0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:40.359 I try to draw him out. Did you put any 0:41:40.400 --> 0:41:42.600 hopes in ever getting that gun back? 0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:47.080 I thought it was unfortunate that it disappeared, but I 0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:50.680 pusn't saying darn. I wish I could find that gun. 0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:54.880 It's just a material object. 0:42:00.920 --> 0:42:03.640 No one is sure what to say. Sure, it's a 0:42:03.640 --> 0:42:07.400 material object, but it's a material object that carries great meaning. 0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:10.680 It's a material object that connects him to his dad. 0:42:16.160 --> 0:42:17.799 I was not as close to my dad as I 0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:21.800 would like to have been, the guy with a glass 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:24.160 of Scotch whiskey in his hands, sitting in the easy chair, 0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:28.759 tossing out criticisms as needed. The way you grow a 0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:32.160 better son is to criticize him for. 0:42:32.160 --> 0:42:34.760 The first time all day when isn't cracking a silly 0:42:34.880 --> 0:42:36.000 joke or smiling. 0:42:37.520 --> 0:42:43.200 My main memory of my dad was being afraid of him. Remember, 0:42:43.239 --> 0:42:46.719 one of my early memories is that I'd somehow succeeded 0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:50.920 in getting a bruised bone on my shin. And I 0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:54.839 was like three years old, and my mother was sufficiently 0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:57.480 concerned that she took me to the doctor and had 0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:00.000 an X rayed, and it was, oh, in the world 0:43:00.000 --> 0:43:02.040 the world did a little teddy that was me then 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:06.160 get a bruise on his bone? And I think what 0:43:06.200 --> 0:43:09.879 it is is that I think I got kicked by 0:43:10.080 --> 0:43:13.280 a guy wearing size twelve wingtips. 0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:17.280 Scott's never heard this story before, and it seems almost 0:43:17.280 --> 0:43:18.520 like he doesn't want to believe it. 0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:22.960 Were there good parts about your relationship with him, if 0:43:22.960 --> 0:43:25.560 you had to name, if I. 0:43:25.520 --> 0:43:33.640 Had to name, hmm, I don't know. He was just 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:35.000 kind of scary all the time. 0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:39.440 Wynn explains that his relationship with his father wasn't the 0:43:39.480 --> 0:43:41.440 same as Bill's relationship with their father. 0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:44.520 I think I felt criticized mostly for not being as 0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:48.280 good as my brother. He always did well in school, 0:43:48.480 --> 0:43:52.239 and I wasn't always so wondrous, and I always saw 0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:54.960 myself as a little more plump and a little less athletic. 0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:00.719 Bill was always the louder voice in the room. So 0:44:00.800 --> 0:44:03.920 that Christmas, when Bill lectured Scott about the significance of 0:44:03.960 --> 0:44:06.960 the luger, Scott had assumed Bill was speaking for his 0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:09.799 dad too, but he wasn't. 0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:12.400 I saw it as this treasured possession that linked to 0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:16.680 you to the good parts of Grandpa. That your relationship 0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:20.160 with him is complicated and different than I even knew. 0:44:21.840 --> 0:44:24.040 Scott was right in believing that the gun was a 0:44:24.080 --> 0:44:26.640 reminder of Win's father and that it carried a lot 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:30.239 of meaning for Win. He just misunderstood the nature of 0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:42.239 that meaning. To know that Scott had been thinking about 0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:45.160 it all these years, even maybe past year having thought 0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:48.240 about it. How does that make you feel? 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:53.840 It makes me feel loved that he would make it 0:44:53.880 --> 0:44:55.799 a part of his life to try to track it down. 0:44:58.239 --> 0:45:00.799 It feels like maybe I was at least part successful 0:45:00.800 --> 0:45:04.279 in not being like my dad. Yeah, that I was 0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:06.120 somebody he could run over to and climb up in 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:08.640 the lap of when he was little and stick his 0:45:08.680 --> 0:45:11.000 fingers up my nose. He still liked to do that. 0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:14.920 I could never stick my fingers up my dad's nose. 0:45:21.880 --> 0:45:23.200 Winn looks over at his son. 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:29.520 Don't let it bother you anymore. The greatest prize that 0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:31.520 I got out of this whole thing was the fact 0:45:31.680 --> 0:45:34.360 that even though all this crap disappeared, I got to 0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:38.359 get my boy back. The funeral plot that I had 0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:41.319 bought for myself to be next to your mom. I 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:42.960 thought I was going to have to bury my son 0:45:43.080 --> 0:45:45.680 in it, and I am delighted that I never had 0:45:45.760 --> 0:45:50.560 to do that. That's ever so much better. 0:45:55.200 --> 0:45:58.400 Maybe eight years ago, during Whinn's visit to Scott in jail, 0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:00.919 it wasn't the missing gun that had made him cry. 0:46:01.560 --> 0:46:05.479 It was missing his son. But now the gun tells 0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:06.280 a different story. 0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:10.360 The gun has grown, so it's not just my dad anymore. 0:46:12.640 --> 0:46:16.360 It has a whole story to tell about my son, 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:25.279 and it's back returned by this guy here. Thank you 0:46:25.360 --> 0:46:25.960 for doing all that. 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:42.320 Of course, a few weeks later, I get this text 0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:46.160 from Scott the other night. It reads, I stumbled upon 0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:49.919 a World War II documentary and for the first time 0:46:49.960 --> 0:47:32.440 in eight years, Scott didn't changed the channel. Now that 0:47:32.640 --> 0:47:41.560 the fern ures raft turning to its goodwill home, Now 0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:47.080 that the last month's rant is scheming with the damaged post, 0:47:47.600 --> 0:47:49.600 take this moment to dissolve. 0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:57.560 If we met him, if we talked, never felt around 0:47:57.719 --> 0:47:58.760 for far too. 0:48:01.080 --> 0:48:09.680 Famous at Accident Leeks. This episode of Heavyweight was produced 0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:13.280 by Stevie Lane and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Khalila 0:48:13.360 --> 0:48:16.240 Holt and Ba Parker. The show is edited by Jorge 0:48:16.600 --> 0:48:20.280 just Special thanks to Emily Condon, Alex Bloomberg, Nathan Foster, 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:24.600 Jacob Eppler, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed the episode 0:48:24.640 --> 0:48:27.560 with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson, Blue 0:48:27.600 --> 0:48:31.600 Dot Sessions, Michael Hurst, Hailey Shaw, and Bobby Lord. Additional 0:48:31.680 --> 0:48:34.560 music credits can be found on our website Gimletmedia dot 0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:37.920 com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by The Weaker 0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:40.840 Thans courtesy of Epitaph Records, and our ad music is 0:48:40.920 --> 0:48:44.040 by Hailey Shaw. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or 0:48:44.160 --> 0:48:47.560 email us at Heavyweight at gimltmedia dot com to see 0:48:47.600 --> 0:48:50.000 photos from this week's episode. You can follow the show 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:52.759 on Spotify and check out our show page on the 0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:56.239 Gimlet Media website. We'll be back in two weeks with 0:48:56.360 --> 0:48:58.280 a brand new episode of Heavyweight 0:49:02.680 --> 0:49:03.359 Bo