Ken Rosenthal on Braves pursuit of Rizzo before Olson, Elly’s rise, M’s choices + Cubs-White Sox battle

00:00:07
Speaker 1: All right, time for our first guest of the day, a dear friend of mine, the senior writer for The Athletic. You guys know him as your insider on foul Territory. Hello, Kenny, how are you today?

00:00:19
Speaker 2: Katie?

00:00:20
Speaker 3: I must commend you on your hosting so far already You're way ahead of the game. You took a break at the appropriate time. That usually doesn't happen, so thank you.

00:00:29
Speaker 1: I have to put on my best for you. Kenny. You know this, plus c AJ prisients let him know. Let him know that the first nineteen minutes or so not terrible. But let's get to you got a new notes call him out on The Athletic this morning, headlining with some previously unreported news on the Freddy Freeman Matt Olsen saga. Remember when the Braves acquired Olsen and Freddie went to LA That was over five years ago. You've put reported that the Braves also tried to sign Anthony Rizzo. Let's break that down a little.

00:01:02
Speaker 2: Bit, well, Katie.

00:01:03
Speaker 3: As I mentioned at the start of the article, it's no point, there's no point relitigating what happened Freddy leaving at Landa.

00:01:10
Speaker 2: The whole saga that we heard about.

00:01:13
Speaker 3: But at the same time, when I was talking to some people about just what I wanted to do with a comparison between Freddie Freeman and matt Olsen, I did learn that, yes, the Braves, in between finding out they were losing Freddy and trading for Olsen, actually tried to get Rizzo. And why is this significant. It's not that significant in the grand scheme of things. But if you recall at the time, there was a perception, a narrative that this is what the Braves wanted all along. They just wanted to get rid of Freddy get matt Olsen. And granted they acted very quickly after losing Freddie Freeman to acquire matt Olsen. This all happened within a span of three or four days, and they signed Olsen right away to a long term extension. But before they even got serious with the a's about Olsen, they did try for Rizzo. It never got closed. They wanted to do one year, according to one source. Another source said, well, Rizzo wanted to opt out, and the Braves don't do that.

00:02:12
Speaker 4: Whatever.

00:02:13
Speaker 3: The point is that the idea that they were simply on the Olsen train never made that much sense to me.

00:02:20
Speaker 2: They tried to sign Freddy until the end.

00:02:22
Speaker 4: You can debate whether.

00:02:23
Speaker 3: They tried hard enough, okay, but that is why I reported what I did. The gist of the item is that both teams, the Dodgers and the Braves, end up extremely happy.

00:02:36
Speaker 2: Obviously, the Dodgers.

00:02:37
Speaker 3: Have won two World Series, Freddy said two of the great home runs in postseason history, and the Braves have three more years of Matt Olsen after this one plus a club option. He is in his prime, he's having one of his best years. He has played every game possible since joining the Braves. So they're quite happy too.

00:02:56
Speaker 5: So when we get into trade season, we can be reminded of this train because it was a trade. Yes, they didn't they didn't re sign Freddy. They traded Matt Olson for the a starting catcher, Shae langleires. So there are trades like this.

00:03:11
Speaker 4: That work out well.

00:03:13
Speaker 5: But is there fear that one side's always getting ambushed in a trade. When I'm talking about just this trade, part of the Shay langliers for the Matt Olsen side.

00:03:23
Speaker 3: There's always fear, and certainly in the Braves case, they traded four prospects. That's not something they generally like to do that. They've done it a couple of times. They did this get Sean Murphy as well. And yes, when you trade prospects, you know that there's a possibility that they might come back to haunt you, that you might have traded the wrong players. But the Braves knew what they had in Langoliers. They knew he was very good. They also knew that they were getting Matt Olsen. I don't remember the amount of club control he was under at that time, but it was multiple years so and that was before signing into the extension.

00:03:55
Speaker 2: So they make the trade.

00:03:56
Speaker 3: You do what you have to do, and come trade season you will see teams we know this, We see it every year that are reluctant to move prospects, that hug their prospects. And sometimes that's for the better and sometimes it's for the worse. Look at the Baltimore Orioles right now, a reasonable argument can be made, a more than reasonable argument can be made that they held on to some of their young players too long.

00:04:23
Speaker 6: I want to talk about the Mariners now a little bit, talk about starting pitching.

00:04:26
Speaker 7: Specifically, how do you think, what do you think this team is going to do?

00:04:30
Speaker 6: I mean, come trade deadline, you think they'll find another starting pitcher. We talked about Luis Castillo struggling with a little bad luck.

00:04:38
Speaker 7: Kate Anderson's looming too.

00:04:40
Speaker 6: Man, talk a little about this team and what you see as the future looms forward here, Todd.

00:04:45
Speaker 3: Right now they've got six including Emmerson Hancock who is not going anywhere, and yes, Kate Anderson is tearing up double A in the minors. So conceivably at the deadline, if everyone is healthy, they can at least enter tain the idea of trading a starting pitcher. Now, we all know that doing that is extremely dangerous because the minute you.

00:05:06
Speaker 2: Trade one is the minute you lose another, and then you need starting pitching.

00:05:10
Speaker 3: So I don't know that the Mariners will do this. But what's interesting about their situation is that next year they've got Randy Rosereina, the left fielder facing free agency. They've got JP Crawford, who will be replaced most likely by Colt Emerson, also facing free agency. They'll need a third basement if Emerson is playing short as well as a left fielder. So if you're the Mariners at the deadline, do you address this or try to address it now or do you wait until the off season when you'll have more options available, Although the free agent market is quite thin and you're going to be looking.

00:05:46
Speaker 2: At a lockout and all of that. So I don't know what they will do.

00:05:50
Speaker 3: My suspicion is that they'll keep all their starting pitchers, assuming they're healthy, and if they're healthy, they'll count their blessings and go from there.

00:06:00
Speaker 5: I mean, we kind of can meld these two teams together. They had a ton of starting pitching and they needed a bat and they weren't willing to trade away from that starting pitching to get that bat. And now they've signed some guys. But before we hit another topic, I want to ask you about col Nobody can find the replacement for cal Raley. Do teams at this time of the year say, starting catching is just so difficult, we just have to find two backups to fill it in. Because even at the trade deadline, you rarely see starting catching get moved. It's like, if it's going to happen, it's rare case, and it's usually like more of like a backup kind of guy, like a Christian Vasquez, that type of thing. But do the Mariners make a move here with Col's news of him being out, because they're never used to him being out and they're barely able to cover it with him being out well.

00:06:54
Speaker 3: First of all, Eric, we don't know how long he's going to be out yet, and they have not.

00:06:57
Speaker 2: Said anything about that.

00:07:00
Speaker 3: Obviously, it's an oblique it's going to be weeks and maybe even months, who knows. But I don't expect them necessarily to make a move. And remember they did trade Harry Ford in the offseason to the Washington Nationals. He's still in the minor leagues, but he was their top catching prospect and they got Farrere.

00:07:17
Speaker 2: For him, a left handed reliever. They're sitting on Mitch.

00:07:20
Speaker 3: Garver right now, who they re signed because they wanted him to be the backup to cal Raley. Cal Raley wanted him to be the backup as well, and they've got Parada, who is a strong defensive catcher, as the backup to Garver. If that's how they're going to play it, they'll probably split time with both of those. So I don't necessarily see them making a move. We just did see a starting catcher get traded, a highly unusual trade, especially in May. Patrick Bailey went from the Giants to the Guardians. But you're right, Catchers routinely do not get traded, in part because it's hard for a catcher to adapt to an entire new staff and pitching system going from one team to another. That's a difficult thing to ask of anyone. So I don't know that they're going to replace him. I don't know that they can replace him. Probably what happens here is they simply wait for him to return.

00:08:13
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00:08:17
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00:08:32
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00:08:48
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00:08:51
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00:09:12
Speaker 1: Thank you see Geek now, Kenny, if you would have told me at the beginning of the season that the Washington Nationals would be one of baseball's best offenses. Offenses, I would have said, what, But.

00:09:24
Speaker 7: Here we are.

00:09:25
Speaker 1: They can slug, they can hit, and as you wrote here, there's been a new emphasis on on better swing decisions. The walk rates up. The chase rate is up, though on the swing rate down. But no matter what they're doing here, it seems to be working.

00:09:38
Speaker 5: Now.

00:09:38
Speaker 1: When we talk about the Nationals, we've been talking about them in this state of a perpetual rebuild. They have a new front office that this seems to be the case, never a good sign for a fan base. When your rebuild results in another rebuild. But right now, dare I say the Nationals have a little bit of hope. Do you think that will impact any possible trade conversations of CJ. Abrams going forward?

00:10:01
Speaker 2: Yes and no. Both, And here's why I say that.

00:10:07
Speaker 3: Yes, because the new front office, liked the new front office in Saint Louis sees this as not something that's going to be fixed in one year. It's going to take some time.

00:10:18
Speaker 2: So therefore C. J. Abrams is a trade candidate.

00:10:21
Speaker 3: And when I say no, it's not going to have any impact because he already was a trade candidate. So I don't know that it makes much difference. It is what it is now. We had Spencer Andnusbaum of the Athletic Right yesterday about how while Abrams has been dynamic offensively, really the best offensive shortstop in baseball, his defensive metrics are not good and there's always been talk of him possibly moving to second base. How does this impact them in trade discussions?

00:10:47
Speaker 2: Unclear.

00:10:48
Speaker 3: Clearly a team could trade for Abrams to play second base, or they could trade for him to be their shortstop and hopefully improve his defense. Generally speaking, as I wrote, position players at the deadline are difficult to move. Shortstops in particular, are difficult to move unless you haven't open it. Now with shortstops, most teams are set, So unless there's an injury, I don't really see it. I did mention Tampa Bay as a possibility for Abrams, but Tampa Bay greatly values defense, so if his defense is in question, I don't know how interested the Rais would be. But at the same time, the Nationals at some point are probably going to want to leverage what they have with Abrams to get multiple pieces back. He's got two years of control after this one.

00:11:36
Speaker 2: His salary is rising. It shouldn't matter.

00:11:39
Speaker 3: They don't much have much of a payroll anyway, but they're going to look to move him, if not at the deadline, which they probably will explore certainly.

00:11:47
Speaker 2: I would think this offseason.

00:11:49
Speaker 6: As you know me, Kenny, we talk about this all the time. One way together, about results. I'm a results based guy. I'm not a numbers guy.

00:11:56
Speaker 7: I look at you in the eye, I watch you play.

00:11:59
Speaker 6: I want that guy my team, right, and we're talking about Elie day La Cruz, one of the best in the game. If we're talking about results and I think that's fantastic. Got the guy that wanted my team. Now, can you enlighten us a little bit more about this story? How he wasn't you know, spoken about in an article or in the news about you know, positively, and you know about what the Cincinnati reads, how good.

00:12:19
Speaker 7: They've been doing even though they've been struggling.

00:12:22
Speaker 2: Well.

00:12:22
Speaker 3: I wrote about him because I was talking with our Beat writers. He's Trent Rosecrants, and I said, hey, man, what's up with Elie? Why the improvement? Is there any story there? And Trent said, there is a story here, and the story is that he is focused on becoming a winning player, not just chasing metrics, not just trying to throw the ball as hard as he can or.

00:12:43
Speaker 2: Hit it as hard as he can.

00:12:44
Speaker 3: So he certainly does that. He's trying to do things that winning players do. What you're talking about, Todd results. So I thought that was really interesting and for a young player, a guy who has not yet made money to understand that he needs to operate within a team concept and get the best out of himself for the team, to me, that's a good story, and that's why I wrote what I did about him. I talked to a number of people before I wrote that, and they all kind of had the same view of this, that this is a guy who was doing some really special things. Nathaniel Lowe said, when I was on the other side, when I was his opponent, I thought, Okay, he's really dynamic, he does all these cool things, but is he going to be consistent? Is he going to be that kind of player? And the answer Nathaniel Lowe has found is yes. And then I talked to their general manager, Nick Krawl. He said, Ellie's not just stealing basis to steal bases anymore. He's doing it strategically, doing it for the right reasons. And then Brian Hayes, the third baseman, who was kind of an influence on Elie Delacruz because to Brian Hayes is one of the great fielders in the game. He said, he's not worried about throwing the ball one hundred miles an hour across the field anymore. He's worried about getting outs. All of these things combined to make Elie Delacruz not just an extremely gifted player, but a player who is all about winning, trying to do the best he can for the team.

00:14:07
Speaker 2: And making plays.

00:14:09
Speaker 3: As he has done is like detail in the story that really go to those lengths. So it's a cool story because he is just twenty four still and it's a cool thing that he has kind of founded and his work ethic has responded to all these challenges that he's faced, and here he is now and he's a top five war guy. I think right now there's not much more he can say about it than that.

00:14:34
Speaker 5: Can you tell us what you wrote in the article about the penalties that the infield I think it's all the infielders with the Reds incur if they make an air, and I think Heno Suarez came up with it, but I'm not you you know more.

00:14:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, Henria Suarez in his first stint with the Reds twenty fifteen to twenty would do this with Joey Vado and Zach Coozart and that group. And basically, I don't know if there's inflation here spending much money on this betting game that they have regardless, but what happens is an infield practice.

00:15:06
Speaker 2: If one of the infielders misses a throw.

00:15:09
Speaker 3: Or botches a ground ball, he has to pay the other infielders twenty dollars.

00:15:13
Speaker 7: Now.

00:15:14
Speaker 3: One of the funny things about this is that second baseman Matt McClain is generally not included in these games because they feel the throw from second the first is too easy and he's got an advantage. But first baseman Sustar aohaner Suarez who still plays third, as well as Dhing, Cabrian, Hayes, Elie Dela Cruz. They're all part of it, and there's some dispute who has the lead right now.

00:15:37
Speaker 2: Cabrian said they're all even and Aohan said, no, I haven't made a mistake yet.

00:15:43
Speaker 3: Whatever, it's something that again forces players to get in the right practice habits for the game and actually kind of enhances.

00:15:54
Speaker 2: The attention to detail, which is what you're seeking.

00:16:03
Speaker 1: Welcome back and hello to Jesse Rogers of ESPN, our next guest here on this Friday edition of Foul Territory. Jesse based in Chicago, Big Series in the South Side. How are you today.

00:16:18
Speaker 4: I'm good. I mean, i'd like to say I put on the sport coat for you guys, but it's Cubs versus Socks, both teams above five hundred. That rarely happens around here, So we're all juiced up for this series. I mean, the White Sox are playing some really good baseball, and of course the Cubs got off to a great start. So good to be with you.

00:16:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about Let's talk about the White Sox because I think coming into the season, you saw some of the moves they did on the margins, you're still thinking, all right, they're a little bit of ways out of out of playing into contention. The Ale Central is one of the I would say, more mediocre divisions in baseball. But as we're looking six weeks into the season, we passed the forty game quarter mark threshold point. Do you think the Chicago White Sox are legit.

00:17:00
Speaker 4: To think so? And I've been doing this for about ten days or so, just kind of looking under the hood. Are they doing something so amazing right now that they're bound to have some regression? I don't see it. Yes, A lot of their offense has been concentrated in three players more Commy Vargas and Colson Montgomery. But even as of lately against the Royals, they just swept them more Commedy didn't do much except take some walks. Their six through nine hitters are pretty good. They're league average. They're pitching really well in clutch moments, but not so much that you expect some regression. Like the Reds, for example, we're in that category. They were way above everyone else in clutch moments, pitching wise, high leverage, and they came back to the pack. In fact, I think the Padres, for example, are in that category. Hitting wise. I think they might come back to the pack. So that's what I'm getting at, Like the Socks are not doing something where you're like, well, that's not gonna last, other than they're very young and you just don't know if young team can pace themselves for one sixty two. And of course, the biggest thing is what you just said. The division seems wide open. There's a couple of rebuilds that have somewhat stalled. The Kansas City Royals might be one of them. Certainly, Detroit Tigers have some issues with Scooble down and some other issues as well. Cleveland is still Cleveland. But I do think the situation the division is going to allow for the White Sox to hang around.

00:18:15
Speaker 6: You talk about them hanging around, Now, tell me and explain to me who who's the leader of that team.

00:18:20
Speaker 7: Who's the guy right now that.

00:18:22
Speaker 6: Is leading in the charge there with this resurgence of this white White Sox team and how good they've been doing.

00:18:27
Speaker 4: It's funny. I asked that of Sam Antonaci the other day and he said, Mike Vassel, who's had elbow surgery, is not even part of the mix on the mound. But it does feel like a little bit of a group effort. More Commie has certainly injected some life in there. Chase my draft might be the heart and soul kind of thing along with Antonachi since he's come up, but mydraf has a little bit more experiences. It's hard to pinpoint one person. I think they congregate around Miguel Vargas a little bit. So it is a different sort of feeling every day over there. It is in some ways similar to the Cubs. The sum is better than the parts. They certainly had a MVP Calbert kind of candidate early on here with more Kami. But you think of that team like that bullpen is as important as anything, and you can't really point to one guy. It's a bunch of guys back there, Hudson and Sir Anthony Domingus, who's given up some runs but gotten the saves done and Sean Newcomb. So my best answer is Mike Vassil, who's on the injured list, or else it's Chased my Dress who's kind of leading the charge.

00:19:31
Speaker 5: Do you think more Kami is what you said, an MVP type of candidate or is it more of just like a second place rookie of the year.

00:19:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's a tough question. I do think he is turning into that three true outcome kind of player, a mini or man's Kyle Schrober. I think that's in him. I think that's the most surprising thing, as it was told to me when he was in Japan. He hit fifty six runs a few years ago. I think he started to chase those home runs as like the true slugger in his lineup, and he got a kind of got away from himself. Comes over here. And what's been so shocking is is the takes, the walks, the on basis at three seventy, a lot of strikeouts, a lot of walks, a lot of home runs. That nearly got Kyle Schwarver the MVP last year. So I'm not gonna say no, but you know it's hard for a rookie to do it for one sixty two and and and you know, hard enough to win Rookie of the Year. I don't know if he'll be an MVP candidate towards the end of the year. You got Aaron Judge, you got some good players in the American League, but certainly Rookie of the Year and certainly surprising people. His takes are elite, and after a good take usually comes a good pitch, and he's been able to do damage on it.

00:20:39
Speaker 1: Jesse, knowing all the time that we spent together in the NL Central, I'm a little surprised, to say the least, about the quality of baseball from all five teams in that division. And I'm also still surprised about the White Sox. So my question for you here is what's the bigger surprise, how well the Cubs have played given all of their pitching injuries, or that the White Sox are simply a five hundred team.

00:21:00
Speaker 4: No, it's definitely the White Socks. I mean, the Cubs are coming off of ninety two when a season they added to their pitching staff, they reinforced got some depth, Edward Cabrera being the main guy there. So I don't think what the Cubs are doing is a surprise at all. I thought it would be a lengthy, deep lineup, and for the most part it has been. It's a little bit streaky because when they're not passing the baton, when they face at Jacob de gram or Chris Sale, it can stall a little bit. They don't have that true MVP caliber player in the middle to carry them through some tough times. Maybe Saya Suzuki's as close as they get, but they're ten to twelve deep if you include Michael Confordo, who's come out of nowhere. So not surprised by the Cubs. I think everybody in Chicago, including the lighte Sicks themselves. Maybe not the players, but I think the personnel around that team are pretty surprised. This team's twenty two and twenty one. This was supposed to be just another stepping stone in their rebuild, and they may actually contend for a playoff spot.

00:21:53
Speaker 5: All right, Jesse, make sure we say this about the Cubs first, because this is AJ's team. We have to make sure we get no love here. But most teams stall when they face Jacob deGrom or Chris Sales. So that's okay for that Cubs lineup, But I have one more socks question. With the team doing better, I get it, I don't believe they're a playoff team. I don't think anybody don't think you said that. I don't think anybody said that. With Andrew benattendee struggling still, do you think this front office is okay taking at bats away from him, a guy who's still up for one more year on his contract, of his five year, seventy five million dollars deal that he signed four years ago. Do they would they be in a spot to take at bats away from him this year to give them to younger guys as most rebuilding teams do.

00:22:44
Speaker 4: The answer is yes, I think so. We've already seen him get dropped in the lineup. It's not necessarily playing every day now. They don't have a deep outfield, so that's where he's going to get some some bats still, But they have some guys coming like Bradon Montgomery's on the rise. He could be up here basically any day. So the answer question is yes. And look, the longer they stay in the race, the more you think about only winning, and you put out the best nine guys every day that are gonna help you win. So we get to the second half and they are in the race. I think, yeah, benettende's hitting, he'll play. If he's not, he'll play less. I think he has been a good, sort of experienced veteran in that locker room. But there are other guys certainly performing better. He's no longer in like the top four or five hitters, which he was a lot early on this season. So I definitely think the answer to your question is yes.

00:23:31
Speaker 5: All right, now let's go to AJ's Cubs, because this team is leading the NL Central. This team spent money in the offseason bringing in a bragman that we normally wouldn't see this team do other years, and they extended PCA, and they extended Nico Horner. Is this team succeeding the way that they built the team to succeed, because when you look at it, the money's given to kind of the intangibles, sometimes defense, base running, and not necessarily the super We brought in Kyle Tucker because he's the star and we're gonna sign him. So are they succeeding in that way or are they succeeding because they put runs on the board.

00:24:10
Speaker 4: I think they're succeeding in the way they built the team. You're right, they didn't want to concentrate money into one player, that this was going to be more spread out. Add some free agents along with guys that have come up you know from their miners themselves Pca and Nico Horner for example, but add in Bregman and Danceby Swanson a few years ago. No, I think this is the division that Jed had when he broke up the last team, you know, back in twenty one, trading Rizzo and Bryant those guys. It was always going to take some time. They weren't going to be a quick, fixed team because that usually costs you money right away. So I think he is slowly but surely added on and and yeah, it turns out like, Okay, you don't have to pay for defense as much as you do for home runs, but home a run saved is just as good as a run scored. So they've been able to put together a pretty good offensive team. Would they really good defensive team and enough pitching to win? We saw that basically last year, and I think they're a little bit better this year.

00:25:10
Speaker 1: Let's uh, there we are. Jesse when you look at the NL Central, the Cubs I think, based on their off seasons, should be right where they are even with all those injuries. We can never really count out the Brewers. They just find a way to win every year. The Cardinals supposed to be going through a rebuild. They're playing their best ball in the last three years. Who is the front runner in this division right now?

00:25:31
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's the Cubs, though they have the injuries. Having said that, until they knock the Brewers off, you kind of respect Milwaukee, you absolutely do. I'm not going to pick a winner, but I will say this, and I said this in February and March regarding the Cubs. If not now win, If not this team with this payroll, which they're going to pay the tax and everything, how and win, are they going to beat the Brewers. This is as good as it's probably going to get. They're not investing for four hundred five hundred million in Trek school ball. They already passed on and Kyle Tucker, but are paying Alex Spragman. I mean, so that's kind of my feeling. If not now, when having said that Milwaukee might win the division, I don't know, but I do agree that I think it's those two teams I mentioned kind of the clutch, high leverage moments. Saint Louis has certainly exceeded in that Cincinnati has as well. I do think there's some regression there. Certainly the Reds have already shown that a little bit. Pittsburgh is probably being, you know, doing what they should be doing. They'll probably be a five hundred ish team and making those kinds of improvements in the standings based on what they did in the offseason. So I still look at it as the Brewers and Cubs as the class. But man, if the Cubs don't win the division this year, I don't know when they're going to.

00:26:43
Speaker 7: Well that's a tough one.

00:26:44
Speaker 6: I mean, if you're a Chicago fan, you're like, all right, pressure's on right now. Talk a little about their pitching. Man, they've been hit with some setbacks. Wharton's out for the year. Still how to set back, talk about my man and Boyd all of a sudden getting hurt with his kids. I listen, I tested it out. I've been hurt with my kids too when I'm messing around with them all the time. Now, all pun intended, but talk a little about that, and they're still doing it. So I mean that goes to show you a sign of winning ball club.

00:27:11
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, I mean, we could get to the end of the year and they just come up short, and we could blame it on Kate Horton and Justin Steele set back. Now, Steele was coming back from elbow surgery anyway, so you better not have counted on him necessarily. But obviously Horton came out of nowhere in some ways, although he has shown a history of injury. So I guess I'm saying there's really no excuses. They did think about these things when they traded for Edward Cabrera and rebuilt their bullpen. Jed Hoyer will certainly need to do some work at the deadline. Best starter available, best reliever available, that kind of thing thinking I think is important here. You know, go back to twenty sixteen. They traded their best prospect for all this Chapman. So I would say, if you're following the Cubs, I don't care how they get better on their mound reliever starter. They're going to need to do that in July. But we're far away from July. I think Ben Brown has emerged as a really good pitcher. He's now in the starting rotation showed to Imanaga has reinvented himself in some ways. He's pitching like a cy young candidate. So they are overcoming right now, but as you guys know, six months is a long time to overcome a couple big injuries. Hopefully Justin Steele comes back for them, but July is going to definitely be important. The end of July early August, specifically for Jed Hoyer. They probably can't go as far as they want built built as is, but I think they can. They can still do well and hang in there until reinforcements come.

00:28:38
Speaker 5: All right, well kind of two parter. Then when is Jed Hoyer ever made that big move in season? Yes, we got Edward Cabrera, which was not necessarily the like Corbyn Burns type of last year type of guy that you're getting, Like, there were some question marks about Edward and you know they're still there. But is he that guy? Because you talked about twenty sixteen. I mean, I'm pretty sure THEO ain't making no trades. THEO works for a lot of different teams and makes Leaue baseball and like the women's professional Soccer League.

00:29:07
Speaker 4: He's everywhere, but.

00:29:10
Speaker 5: It's not twenty sixteen, and I think Jed Hoyer, I'm not saying he's on the hot seat. I'm saying, with these injuries, other teams that want to make the playoffs set themselves up with a little more depth than what I think Jed Hoyer put the Cubs in to start the season.

00:29:27
Speaker 4: Okay, so I'm gonna disagree with you a little, but I do think he did well enough in the offseason. But I do agree that aggressive muscle that you know, that aggressive GM show. He hasn't always shown like that's not a club in his bag that he takes out very often. The first time I saw it as as the headman was basically when they traded a top prospect for Kyle Tucker a year ago, one year of Kyle Tucker. That showed me something that Jed hasn't necessarily done in the past as much. That's why I use that phrase. And this is actually theo's phrase, if not now, when he certainly said that when he traded g Libratrus for all this Chapman in sixteen. I think we're entering the same situation. We don't know what baseball is gonna look like next year the Cubs are either going to be in first or in the wildcar race come July, you know, August second or third, whenever the deadline is. And I think he really has to go for it. Maybe maybe you only do it once every decade where you really go for it. This should be it, And I agree with you. Let's see if he pulls that club out of his bag. I think he's been around long enough and learned at the feet of theo Epstein to know that if he has to shoot big, if he has to give up a top prospect, maybe maybe not for rental, you know, maybe maybe it's someone with team control, maybe a second best prospect for you know, if he has to make that aggressive mood, that's gonna hurt in years to come. I like to believe he'll do it. I do, and I think he's at least shown the ability to do it when you think about that Kyle Tucker trade. But I think Cup fans are gonna be waiting and watching very closely for that big one come July.

00:30:59
Speaker 7: Last question for me, we talk about rivalries all the time. There's still some good rivalries in baseball.

00:31:05
Speaker 6: You know, you got the White Sox, you got the Cubs, now, Yankees, Mets. I played for three out of those four teams. Where do you think that Cubs White Sox rivalries sits in the baseball world?

00:31:17
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm gonna be honest. It probably not as good as it should be. I tweeted this out last night. You guys know this by now, Like it's been since June two thousand and eight when they faced each other, and both teams have a winning record, So it's hard. I mean, the fans have a rivalry for sure, but like one team's good, one team's bad, it's just tough to get a lot of juice going. Finally, both teams are decent, even if it's just one game over five hundred for the White Sox. So look, it is a rivalry. It's a good one.

00:31:46
Speaker 7: You know.

00:31:46
Speaker 4: It's funny they play the White Sox, the Cubs do, and then right after that is the Milwaukee Brewers and the Cubs. Brewers rivalry is at its peak. It is as good as it gets. I might even put that ahead of Cubs Socks in some ways, but at least we have two winning teams going at each other. This weekend, sold out crowds. One team really hot, the other team just got off a little losing skid, but they'd won ten in a row twice already in the in the Cubs. So yeah, it's good. It's good, and maybe it will grow if both teams continue to have success.

00:32:18
Speaker 5: Jesse, there's no there's like Cole Hamil said, there's no rivalry between the Brewers and the Cubs. Cole Hamil's exact words, where there's no rivalry between these two teams, and he's seen rivalries. But my question is who's to blame that it's not been a rivalry more because the whole your whole tweet was since two thousand and eight. Yeah, so who's been the worst? Who has the most blame on the Chicago eh kind of rivalry?

00:32:46
Speaker 4: Probably the White Sox a little bit more, only because well, you know, but I say that, but I was about to say the White Socks have gone through two rebuilds in that time at least, but some of the Cubs. Basically now, the Cubs had a World's Series in there, so you give him a little bit of a pass, but I mean pretty equal, but a little bit more with the White Sox. They set the record for most losses in a single season, so yeah, I mean more recently, it's certainly been on the White Sox. But you know, even when Theoepski took over the Cubs, they didn't win for a few years. And by the way, two thousand and eight both teams made the postseason, so maybe there's a little foreshadowing here.

00:33:23
Speaker 2: We love it.

00:33:24
Speaker 1: That's always the good stuff from Jesse Rogers of ESPN, so kind enough to join us before he heads to the ballpark. Everyone's heading to the ballpark right now, Jesse taking the much great stuff on all the stuff in Chicago Land.

00:33:35
Speaker 7: We'll see you soon.

00:33:36
Speaker 4: Great to be with you if you will.