#390 - Benji (@TheBenjiChord) On How He Got Into The Music Industry by Commenting on Instagram + What It Means To Do A&R and the Difference Between A Record & Publishing Deal + The Life Changing Advice Dan of Dan + Shay’s Gave to Him

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Speaker 1: For social media. I don't really know what's like the place people go to to like catch up on what's going on in the country world. I told him if I could interview like a songwriter that wrote a big song and like regular listeners can be like, could now know who that person is, having appreciation for the work they do, that'd be my goal. This is fun a little different too, and really what this podcast is all about, it's kind of behind the scenes on you know, publishing basically, and songwriters and how they get songs to artists and the process there. So we're talking to Benji aka the Beni Chord. Mike can't to me and said, Hey, I think this is guy'd be awesome to talk to. Why, Like, how did you stumble upon him? And why do you think it'd be interesting. I follow him on Instagram and he's always just posting all these things that I find interesting, really good takes on songs, and I thought it'd be great for the podcast. I think what's cool is it's a guy that like music, didn't live in Nashville, and I'll let him tell the story. But we just writing comments, yeah, and not hateful things fighting with people. He would just write it and then that kind of got him going, yeah, this inspired me to be myself more on he did. Yeah, he's like to be yourself and it's what he did. So he is the A and R manager for Warner Chapel Publishing, which is the company that they hire songwriters and then they try to get those songs that those songwriters write to artists who are looking to find and cut songs. I would say that's an accurate description, right, Yeah, it's a whole different other journey that we've seen on the podcast before. And people talk about publishing deals, pub deals, people talk about record deals. It's a really crazy story about one the insides of that industry. But two, just a guy who love music and was like writing comments on a website and it turned into a big job. So here we go Benji aka the Beni Chord. You can follow him at the Beni Chord be eaten Ji Chord on Instagram. All right, that's what's up here you go? Will you explain to people listening to this that may not know the difference in a publishing deal and a record deal, like a recording deal for sure, right, So a publishing deal that is literally you as you're going to go to work as a songwriter. All you're gonna do day to day is you're gonna get in a room with maybe two other people, three other people, and you go sit down, throw ideas around, get some lyrics, hopefully some melody, and you're going to write a song and you're gonna be contracted to that. We write with the hopes of a song that you write will eventually be either recorded by a big artist and hopefully either does well in streaming or on radio, and then that's how you're going to see, you know, some success out of that. Whereas a record deal, that's literally you're an artist. Your whole goal is to record songs other ones that you've written by yourself or ones that have been written by somebody in the industry, and you're the one on the road. You're what you're facing the magazines. That's a recording contract. A publishing deal is definitely where you're a craft is songwriting, you know, I mean, I think that's the easiest way to break it up, is writing. You are behind the scenes writing the songs that we hope are cut and recorded by some artists that a lot of people know about. But recording contract is you're growing into the face of a brand, your job as a and R. I think we should break it all the way down because I wouldn't have known what A and R even was unless I was in this business long enough to know an R was. Did you know what an R was as a kid? Though? The only reason I knews because I was a kid, like reading liner notes of albums I loved, and you'd see an R and I wouldn't know what the heck it meant. I'd learned what songwriters were, right, you'd see different people on every album, But honestly, it wasn't until really I got into like, you know, there's a lot there's a big like rock, you know, seeing i'd say maybe mid two thousands of the whole emo thing. And I one of the guys that works at Warner now, Rohan he was managed Boys Like Girls, and I believe he did some an R work too, And that was the first time I was like, Okay, I know I recognized his name. When like I got older and i'd see him like working in Nashville, I'm like, okay, so what was an or? Do you look it up? And you know they're just trying to get the songs from planting to point B for the artists, try to get the creative part for them flowing. And now I'm in the freaking role. It's pretty well. So would you say that I mean, and I don't mean this like Instagram. I would. I think you're an influencer here, like you're trying to influence people just general people to give songs life and not influence like Instagram. And I would I want that to be like you're trying to sell to me. Definitely nodded, but you know you're trying to create things of influence and trying or trying to make sure that things that are created are influencing the right people. Yeah, the way I'd look at it is if I the very least get regular listeners to understand like what songwriting means, especially in Nashville where it's like this is like a special thing apart from any other genre, then that's when I feel like my job's done. Like even before I got to this position, that's I had this handle. There's even like you know, a gre buzz with for a Country Central, just like we made this country media platform and we just had regular people, you know, voicing their opinions, but also learning about this world again a peak in a Nashville for people around the country, around the world, And that was the most fulfilmed part for me is because people learned like, oh, this is a I know someone that's only a songwriter. They don't have any artist career. When they see their name, you know, written by for like a New Hearty song or New Wallen song, they get excited and like they're rooting for those people the same way I am. So that's been the most fulfilmed part when I had this going on. When someone comes and let's say you're on a vacation or you're just traveling and they're like, hey, what do you do and what do you say? I work in music business, That's what I say. Now, okay, Then I say, oh yeah, doing what I get songs from point A to point B. What's what's point A? Point A is the songs created, and eventually we want to get it to recorded obviously and ideally played on the radio. And when you hear point B, be the artist got it? The artists you want a big name artist ideally or that you want it to be recorded by. And then point C, I guess would be it's on the radio and that's how or streaming services, and that's how you all are hearing it for the first time. And I'm just part of that creative process. I'm kind of you know, I don't say given birth to songs, but I'm part of that process. When the song's created, I'm the one networking it out in the world, making sure he gets heard by as many people as possible. They feel the same thing I feel about it, and hopefully the artist that records it feels the same way that multiple people are feeling about it, and that's the right time for them to record it and then hopefully gets put out in a timely manner, you know, fingers crossed. And then when that's the last part, when it has success, that's just really when you see a lot for the songwriters at the very end of the table, and what's a big win you've had recently? So I'll telling Mike, you know, I just started four weeks ago officially, but I would say a win a recent win is one of the writers that represent Taylor Phillips. You know, he's written for Cam Brown, wrote Hurricane for Luke Combs, one of his songs It's not a sing go on Morgan Walla's new record, but thinking about me, right, that's just an album track, but it's done one of the best you know, streaming sell you know, sales wise, and it's just cool to see where it's like, where this idea to start when you talk to them, understand what was going on in the riding room that day, and can start from very small beginnings and then with this album obviously one of the biggest ones in a long time. It's just cool to see your people win, you know what I mean. Where'd you grow up? Houston, Texas? Born and raised and so when you were a kid, let's not even do kid, let's do tenth grade. What do you want to do? You know? My family moved here from Nigeria for college and my dad actually became a patrona engineer so oil and gas world. He started his own company when I was around ten years old, and he moved back to Nigeria and like just ran his company from that he moved back, I suppose. So that was like my whole life, you know, we had the old company and that was really what I thought I was going to do, or I thought that was what I was expected to do, so I'd say tenth grade, Yeah, I'm getting ready to, you know, go to college and prepared for all that. And in my mind, I'm like my dad went to USC, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go there too. I'm gonna do the whole thing. And got into both USC and UT Austin, and I think it was just the decisions kind of made for me in the sense of USC's sixty thousand dollars and U two is like eight thousand a thing around the time, and I really didn't want to. You know, you got through a whole process for some of these like big name schools. You go like, you interview, you do all this crazy stuff. And in my mind, like I'm gonna be an engineer, like this will maybe be my way to get there. And that was where my head was at. I had all these other interests. I loved music, I loved literature, I loved writing. But in my mind, especially the way being first generation American, the way my parents made it here, I just couldn't even understand or I could be doing these other things, these hobbies or interests I had, could it be a career? That's kind of that I expect for myself or is expected of me. So yeah, it was literally just like I'm doing all gas thing, I'll figure it out and we'll see what happens. And that's what I ended up going to school for. What did you dad until you're on that time? Was he encouraging of you to do oil and gas or if you don't want to do oil and gas, do whatever you want? Like what kind of parent was he there? I think he's a type of parent where my dad came from zero, So for him to make it, he just knew. Obviously took a lot of hard work, but it also took a lot of people bedding on you, supporting you. And I think looking back now, I'm thirty two years old now, so get a little older. But looking back now, I think my parents just taught me or told me what they knew. The only reason they got here had the life they're able to have is because this is their first experience. And since myself and my siblings were first generation, they ain't know any other way, so there weren't a lot of different perspectives. To say, plenty of our families moved to the States and they've had this type of success. We know this one way. So that's what I definitely had seen, and I think at the end of it all, I definitely put more of into my own head. I'm sure if I spoke to him and I was like, Hey, this is something that I know I could be great at. I'm going to work my butt off at it every single day, things would have been different. But I know in my head, I was very like point A, point B, either I do A or B, you know. I mean, I couldn't think of like, hey, I'm gonna tell you I want to do this my you know. I feel like I had to go through the process, grow and learn a lot more about myself to now have the top of conversation which I've had with him countless times. Were you as a kid, high school kid, college kid. Were you drawn to music because you liked how it made you feel? Or were you drawn to music because you wanted to be more part of the creation. And obviously music makes everybody feel certain ways. But I always would listen to music kind of to escape, never wanted to really create it. It wasn't until like, I mean, Adam Sandler music for me and even Ray Stevens where I was like, oh, I can do music. But I could be funny because I never really wanted to be or I didn't feel like it had the skills or were lay the effort to be someone who played music at a high level because I have just I was terrible. So where did that come for you? What was your passion in music? Yeah? I would say, just like I keep coming back to the first generation thing because there's no rules when it came to like entertainment or music for me, because my parents knew what they knew, Like if they didn't know like what certain music was or what bands were like, then they couldn't tell me you can't listen to it, you know. So I think my first thing was like I saw Nirvana or watching music videos about them or saw them in MTV, and that's when I was like trying to play guitar and I fell in love a guitar. Where'd you get your first guitar? It was a first act guitar from Walmart, So fingers were definitely blistered, did not sound great whatsoever. But I taught myself. I'll played guitar just watching like Foo Fighters music videos, just watching MTV. I'd see a music videos see where their fingers were and I figured out like a G chord, you know, eventually, But music for me is absolutely an escape. I think growing up it's like my siblings and we were just kind of figuring out what's our life going to be? Like, you know, I mean, like we're seeing our world through a completely different eyes and our parents did. And there's something definitely, looking back, really you know, empowering about that. I may not realize it when I was younger, but when I would listen to music, it would be like I go into my own world. And I think one of the pivotal moments for me, and maybe I memory hold it because I never did anything with music growing up. Was like our parents sent us at school and we're kids like grade school, and they would have like academic competitions we compete in, and there was one I did called music Memory, and they'd like, maybe play like a you know, a Beethoven piece, you know, orchestral piece, and time it for like fifteen seconds, stop the you know, the tape, and then you get to just say who composed it, you know, when it came out? Things like that, what was like the prominent instrument or whatever it may be. And I swear that's where I got my ear for like when i'd put on my headphones when like you know, CD players were normal and I would hear, you know, parts of production. I'd hear like the strings and appreciate all that part of an arrangement and whether it was in a rock song, a pop song, a country song, and that always with me. But I was like, why do I have all this, you know, random information I know or knowledge about music or who's making it, And I'm never gonna do anything with it. And I think also when I looked up, like many people have to like tour on a tour bus and be cramped packed with older buddies, and I'm like, I don't know, I feel like I get sick, you know, after one week and out on the road. So I was like, I don't know if I can ever be a musician. And that was where my brain went. I was like, did you stopped doing like like practicing to do anything more than this recreational play it? It was all recreational. I did have a band that was a part of like in middle school. And the hardest part was I mean, I come if you have n if you know what a Nigerian parents like you're not staying after school at someone's house at band practice. It's like it's not gonna happen. You gotta be we gotta be at home, you know, studying for other subjects. But I did have a band like in middle school that I was like the lead singer of play guitar Um, and I think other than that, I just was like, I'm just always going to be a fan of it. I'm always gonna have some deeper appreciation for it than like I felt like my siblings had or my other friends had for it. But I just never knew, like, what's how am I gonna do anything in music? It just was never a realistic option for me when I was growing up. When did you feel though that it could actually be something that if you work, you can have a career in it, because again, it doesn't sound like you're a dance miners or a any We could go through a list of them who always kind of knew even though they didn't target exactly how they were going to do it, but they've known since they were like seven, and they played and they practice and they because I a bit like you listened to a ton, memorized a ton, found people that I love that wrote and created, but I knew I wasn't going to be an artist. So when did you have that realization of oh, I can actually do this and make a living off of it, because it had to be a job you maybe didn't even know existed. Yeah, so it was after your school and I've done maybe one job, like in the ol and gas industry, and yeah, I'll just did it to do it and you know, pays whatever, and you wasn't super passionate about it. But I'd moved back to Houston. I was like, you know, what expectations for me, I feel are pretty at this point. I didn't I'm not like the superstore, a Superstar oil and gas, you know, like executive. That maybe was like I was thought, I thought I was going to be growing up. So I was like, let me you know, I was going online and there was a big country station in Houston and they were just hiring like for promotions, for social media, you know, for everything, and I supplied. You know. I think it was around the time like Sam Hunter just released his first album FGL was really blowing up, and I was like, hey, I know these artists, like I know people that produced them, and I have that passion. Let me just in like he didn't in the personally who they were. No, I did not know them personally. They knew kind of like what was gone behind the scenes. And yeah, I just rolled the dice. And obviously they always need more radio promo. Yeah you're overqualified, like by it always wanted. I can't hire you, too too smart for all this stuff. So I got that gig and that's really when I dived in, and like I was learning the radio part of the country music world, and um, we'd have artists like Jimmie Allen come to the studio Riley Green when he was starting up, and I was working like the Houston Rodeo, sending up by Cody Johnson shows and a little bit of everything, you know, like working the late nights at a bar, you know what I mean. And from where I'd started growing up, that was just never side of life that you know, I feel like I ever thought I would do. You know, where I'm like people literally can this is part of like a career where people grind out. It could be late nights to like four am, but all throughout your networking you're learning about people, You're meeting the people that are in the industry and also learning from like a program director. I'm Johnny Chang. I think now he's at Pandora, and I would just ask him pick his brain, like when he had time when and I'd be asking technical stuff about hey, why why this single or why does how can the big ours have this huge single and then they released this to one like we don't give as much play And he would just like describe to me the way the world worked, and that was super fascinating to me, and I think all throughout then I was like, it'd be great just to visit Nashville. I'd never been up to that point. That was right before the pandemic hit. I was like, it'd just be cool to visit maybe one day. One day if I could, I can move out here with just a job. I wasn't even thinking it'd be a music job, and I'd be in Nashville big the greatest to live here, be in this environment that's inspiring. And yeah, the pandemic hit and then radio kind of you know, got pretty quiet for a little bit, and that's when I got the last job I had, which is like it tech, you're selling the software, working with all sorts of companies. But I had to quit, obviously my radio jobs because it's like, hey, I need to have a full time job making good money. And around that time, unfortunately, my dad had gotten sick, so you'd move back home from Nigeria to Houston. It's like I was like, all right, at least, let me have a full time job, help out with my family where I can. And I don't know, that's just my reality now, you know what I mean. So radio, I wasn't doing that anymore, but I was still in tune what was happening. I was a kind of around the time when I was like, you know what, it's the pandemic. I love music. Let me just play some country song guitar, not for any reason, not to be seen, but I'll just do it stern. Pandemics like a release in a way, and you post on Instagram or whatever. Maybe one person sees it, who cares, and um, yeah, that's kind of how the ball got rolling, i'd say. And social media. You posted something on social media, you post a song, whatever, Sure, how hard of that ball roll? Like what happened? He didn't roll at all as far as that's concerned. It just became a collection of like may on guitar or me maybe talking about its country song. I was really passionate about are you a good singer? I'd say I'm a very silent background vocalist. I'm not a singer. If you were, you singing on your TikTok Instagram. This video is now private on YouTube, but I had done Luke Combs like he has a song called Moon over Mexico, and I'd sang along to it, obviously out of key, and like just like a couple of people comment is saying, oh, very nice, and then one guy says, brother, you're so out of tune, out of key, and then the dude that comment below is like, I give you props for even putting that up there. By the way, I'm Luke's like videographer on the road, like props. And I was like, that was one random moment where I'm like random people can see everything, you know what I mean, out there in social media world. Do you know who said that the video? I don't know if he's still with him, but I'll look a videographer now. Yeah, And I but I thought you were gonna say, like you low key put up a video, and I got twenty million views and the next thing, you know, you're in Nashville singing. I now singer in the least. But I'd say the first light bulb moment for me just using social media was I had done like a like a little singer review, like a song review about a deep cut of an artist, like a Rhinehard And he had a song called Michigan for the Winner. That's my favorite song by him, and I want to say it's like pretty you know, it was a twenty twenty maybe be getting close to twenty twenty one. I just did like a ride up about it. What the certain you know, hook made me feel like the way the song was arranged, you know, like me just deep diving into songs, and then he had reached out to me. It was just like, dude, thank you so much. Yeah, thanks so much for the deep dive. Like that's how I was feeling when I wrote the song. And then I was like, there's actual like real people behind the screen, you know what I mean. That was the first thing that came to my mind. Then second was like, man, these people see everything, you know what I mean, And in this crazy world of social media, it's like y'all are looking at You're all seeing everything, and so it was cool for me when I was like just being a fan, being passionate about the craft. That's someone that I respect and noticed. And from there I got involved with the group called Country Central that's like another social media platform and how did how do you say? From there? But how did that happen? Do they contact you to completely completely remote? I mean I'm just at home on my phone. And the guy had started he had been doing just maybe some news posts, maybe talking about accolades in the genre, like someone was going number one with certain singles, and I'd just be the guy that comments being like congrats to Ashley go or they first like fifty at sixty number one, you know, and I would just know the songwriters and I'd like shout them out, and he the guy started eventually reached out to me. It's like, how do you know everything about these people that are riding it? Blah blah blah, And I just said, I'm just a fan of like what they do, but hey, I'm definitely a fan of like how he's a very good graphic designer. The guy started at just Videographer Graphic Design Acumen and we just had a zoom call because he's like he was in Florida, I was in Texas. He just put in comment now educated, knowledgeable comments, just being myself. I think I was maybe the first time like whom I could be completely myself and there's maybe some kind of value linked to that, and that's kind of what got the ball rolling. I mean, he I had one zoom call for like close to two hours, and I was just like, hey, dude, you have a very good like sense of like what's eye catching, Like you have like fifteen seconds like catch people's eyes before they tune out. And he was doing it in a space of country music, where of course there's like the standard bearer companies and media like cmts of the world, like the Boot things like that. But for social media, for like a lot of younger generation, I don't really know what's like the place people go to to like catch up on what's going on in the country world. And I just told him, I'm like, hey, if you want to focus on the up and coming artist in town to establish people, if we could write reviews, you know, interview artists, maybe I told him, if I could interview like a songwriter that wrote a big song, and like regular listeners can be like I could now know who that person is, having appreciation for the work they do, then that'd be my That'd be my goal, you know. And from there, like things did like really get rolling. That's crazy, and it also shows use. It just put out stuff that you're passionate about that you note. I mean the fact that you were just putting up reviews on us. I imagine a small TikTok or Instagram account. Sure, I mean no fense. I don't think it's ten million. I don't have ten million, but I've been saying, right, that's what I'm saying. And Ryan reaches out and goes, hey, I appreciate that, and you're like, wait, people see this stuff like I would have the same I would be surprised too. That's what I always looked at it. And then you're writing comments and your comments were so good, My comments suck. I just getting fights about That's all my whole um, you know. Adage is like I like to hopefully use technology for good, not evil. And I just think with the pandemic, my dad being ill, like I just was in a place where I was like, I need to be a good person i'd better be like we've all gone through a craziness with the pandemic, and like coming out of that, I don't want to waste my time being on social media like fighting with people. I just saw where with music we could come together with certain songs that were coming out during the time, just seeing how people were resonating with country music, especially after the pandemic. It kind of blew up with streaming, you know, obviously with Morgan Wallen and other artists were seeing like more success than ever after that, and I think we kind of were at the right place, right time to be covering it in like a creative way. And that's what really got me out to Nashville. Like I visited I want to say, maybe April Easter twenty twenty one, and I was like right when, like Nashville was like reopening a little bit from everything and funny random story. I remember, like the first place I go to on Broadway is like Tootsies, Like I've never been there before, and like I'm wearing my mask and everything, and I walk up the stairs and there's just like Batchelork group like walks up to me and they're like, why are you wearing that? I was like, good to meet you. You know, cool, I'm in Nashville, first time. Great. I was like, I don't know, y'all, like, don't want to rubbing one the wrong way, just being safe. And this girl's like I'm a nurse and I'm not even wearing one. I'm just like, this is Nashville, you know what I mean. But I think I came for first time fell in love with it. I was like, this is an environment that inspires me. Caught some riders rounds while I was in town and with Country Central, we just had a lot of opportunities to catch a lot of shows because by the time we were covering artists or writing reviews, I mean number one songwriters that I was a fan of. I just literally tag them when I would write a review, like they'd see it. They'd reach out to say, hey, I'm really I really appreciate you. Like spotlighting what we do because it could be a big single, it could be just a random song that comes out on a Friday that will never go to radio. But I was riding like we're writing in depth reviews about it, spotlighting like the hooks, the production of it, and like, I don't know even a little more constructive, maybe feedback to it than just this is good or this sucks, you know. I mean I always wanted to give people like this is why to me, it's good. Here's a certain line I think resonates with a lot of people. Here's a producer they work with, I think really highlights what they do really well. And artists for reaching out because Instagram, right, they see everything all you gotta do nowadays you tag someone, but they might happen to look at it, and when I guess when they look at certain things i'd post. I don't know, man, I'm not. I know there's two sides social media. But for me, I truly was just trying to use it to like be myself and hopefully kind of shout out people I think are really talented, really special. And I think because of it, I got connected and was networking with a lot of people in town. And when we come to town, you know, we would have opportunities to interview artists, you know. I think we'd gone out to one of Morgan shows in when in San Antonio, so like he was there and I got to interview Hardy on that tour and for me, like like a huge fan. But I think when you're kind of like doing like a job, it's like cool, this guy get to work. We go we you know, go wrap to his bus, have the interview. I think after stuff like that started happening when we came to town and we're like, hey, we're in town, would love to connect with any artist writers. And we had a good airbnb, Like you're welcome to come by the house, we'll set up the camera, we'll do like an impromptu interview. And the one cool story I have is like we had met I think Connor Smith had played um Whiskey jam and Dylan Marlowe was there him and then his co writers Joe Fox and Jimmy Bell who wrote Last Night Lonely for John Party, so like we gotta know them. And I was like, hey, like I'm in town for a week, have an airbnb me just BMMI would love to interview y'all's songwriters. Just have you buy the house, learn your story, learn how you wrote Last Night Lonely, all that good stuff. So had Dylan had, Joe, had Jimmy all by the house, just gott to learn their story, and like I've kind of I just kind of learned like with the interviews, you have notes and you have rules, but when you're having a one on one conversation learning about people's lives, like you can kind of relax and just let it happen naturally. And that's what I found myself doing. I'd have an interviews and I'm like, i'd have like a note, but then it's just letting them kind of lead the way and like whatever they bring up, I'd take it that direction. And I felt very natural doing it. And with the Last Night Lonely deal, we had interviewed them. But in the same week, one of my buddies, I don't know if you're familiar with him. His name is Grady Smith and he has this like YouTube He makes like money just doing country you know, country music media through YouTube and talking about the industry all that good stuff. And he had had an interview set up with John Party that week, and he's also thinking about moving to town. So I was like, I've a couch you can crash, You're welcome to. So a couple of days later, John Party rolls up in like you know, to our airbnb. That's the first time I met him. Super nice guy. He even though it was like nice and gracious, like the airbnb owners at their house like nearby, like they're freaking out, but he sits down and like I'm just literally filming it. But he's a very interactive guy. So Grady's interviewing him, but then he's talking to me, asking me questions, and we kind of asked him about last night lonely. I'm like, you know, we actually had like the guys by the house like the other day. He's like, I've actually never met them before. And it's always funny obviously to learn, you know now me being and publishing music, publishing, just knowing where a song can start and how it gets to the artists, you know, eventually, and how a lot of times with the schedules y'all have, like you guys never have time to even hang out in person, you know what I mean. And I just thought it was like a really cool wrinkle and like how a song comes to be and at that time I think the song was rising obviously would eventually go number one, but yeah, John's a great guy, and it was just a very cool experience where I'll just be myself in town and these random opportunities were coming my way, you know what. I mean just to interact these people, connect the dots and yeah, just tell them, Hey, if you have music coming out, let me know. And that's something that Country Central we did a good job at as like putting this big release calendar up where like every Friday we're telling you every single country release coming out, so regular listeners would be We're super grateful, I know who my favorite artsts putting out music. And then for up and coming artists, they were really appreciative too, because they're getting spotlighted just as much as like a Morgan Wallen was through our platform. And that was just I think that's how I really made my connections with a lot of the up and coming people that are doing well today. And then like just same thing I thought, like Ryan Herds of the World meeting song like John and even like Thomas Rhet that was probably the most random, you know connection because like he had reached out out of the blue because I just was a big fan of him and I think he had gotten like twenty number ones recently and I just kind of had it compiled it my list of top tr songs, and I think not everything was like a huge hit. It was maybe some of the deeper cuts he had done, and I think maybe he saw that he liked those songs too, and he had reached out to me just out of the blue. I was like, hey, man, like I would love to send you some demos, get your opinion on them, Like what's your number? And I was like, all right, this is this town. Nashville was like insane. Y'all have the crazy schedules and I don't know why you have time to each out to me about anything. But that was really I think when I was like, I'm in the craziest time in my life, Like I'm still in Houston at the whole time, I'm coming out to Nashville on PTO, you know, like all this amazing stuff happening, and I just know new throughout it all that I just keeping yourself. Treat people right, you know. I mean that you come across. Don't get caught up in social media nonsense. But just I get caught up. I'm kind up right now. It's tough, right, It's easier so than done, but you know, keep it on the craft. If I'm just like, hey, I love country music. I love the craft of songwriting, and I want everyone to know as much as possible about this world, so as fans you can just appreciate it even more. And like I think because of that, just all this good kept coming in my life and I keep coming out to Nashville, and yeah, eventually got here, Hank Tight the Bobby Cast will be right back. Welcome back to the Bobby Cast. But how did the Warner people? I mean it had to be you met somebody that knew somebody then also saw what you brought. I mean, networking is it's such a big part of life, more than I ever knew. Me too, same more than ever knew because I used to not care at all. But it's like, can you meet the right people and then show them that you're going to have a good attitude and the work ethic and be able to take coaching right. I've always felt like for me that was the process. But you gotta get to the person that gets to make the decisions. So how did you get to the person? Yeah, it's kind of another one of those like you know, God things, universe things where obviously I being town like with certain Warner you know Chapel the publishing company, like writers like Connor Smith is like a writer for Warner Chapel, and I think pretty much just my name was getting around in that way to where like my current position. Just and our manager, one of the directors there, had heard my name just seeing what was going on, just either when I was in town and what was going on obviously online just can I and the Dots spotline law of their artists, and he used reached out to say like, hey, dude, like I see you in town. I would love just to meet you. Just he just reached out to They just called you reach out like you didn't go, Hey, everybody's Benji, anybody want to hire I don't think I'm that kind of guy, but I know I have to be. Now, you gotta be in people's faces in Nashville to get your music herd. But was literally just like, hey, like, I see what y'all are doing. Just curious what your plan is in town? Like what are you even looking to do? And I think that was the first time in a long time when I was like, could I see myself you know, being in music? Is there a pathway? You know what I mean? And because for a long time I had to kind of close my mind off to that, you know, because I know there's a lot of different routes to get into the music business. But for me, I'm like, I'm thirty two years old. I'm like, I got a lot going on at home, Like is this just gonna be my life? You know? Sometimes it's easy to get resigned to that fact. And just when that happened, I'm like, maybe there's an opportunity and all I have to do is raise my hand and ask, you know, what's the process, what does it look like? What do y'all even have available? You know what I mean? But at that time, I think I just was getting get to no type of thing. What are you looking to do? You have the country's central thing, you have your platform? What are you looking? Um? I don't know if you know him. His name is a Spencer Noe. Okay, yeah, great guy. And we just hung out for two hours, just got to do each other. Still there a lot of two hour calls with you is it the minimal? Like you got to zoom two hours? You get one on one with people when you talk about life. It just for me, like that's just when you learn you'd appreciate where people come from, like what it took for them to get to where they're at today, and I don't know, just I think I can relate to just giving like my background, my family, like I definitely appreciate hustlers and people that grind it out. And yeah, just honestly, after that, I think we just left his like we got along, liked him. He's a good person to know. Nashe no job was talked about. Really did you just wanted to learn about the job, but they were like, we want to hire you. Yeah, I just wanted to learn about his world, what it all took to get into that. And honestly, I think in those kind of positions that companies like that, I mean, people don't leave usually usually in your place, your position for years, and like Ben, maybe a promotion comes up, maybe something opens up, but as far as getting in there like that usually doesn't happen. So I mean I went home, and I want to say, is maybe before the holidays, just this past you know, this past year where there was just some movement, just someone happened for whatever reason, was leaving, you know, the company. And I got another call just saying, hey, you know, there's gonna be some changes at the company. And I thought of you, you know, like I happened to have met with the team just casually just went to the office, met them, kind of learned what they all did, how they got to where they came to be, and saying they met with the president Ben Vaughan, you know who I know, well really you know, my name's sake, you know what I mean, and great guy and just no real offer. But it was just like, but when that call came in, I was literally working my regular job, you know, trying to get a deal, you know, get contract signed, you know, before Friday or something like that. And I was just like, hey, like I thought of you, just there's no promises, but like there's some shift to change here, and your name came to mind and just if you're interested, we can start talking about it. And I was like, okay, you know what I mean. I really didn't know what to think. And I feel like at that point of my life, I'm not one to like be like it's happening absolutely, even if it's something like I manifest that I've never wanted to say, of course, because I feel like at this point of life, I try to live in as much reality as possible. Not to say I don't dream as much, but when I don't know, like my dad's stick at home, and it's like when you have to see that, you're like, let me appreciate the present and you're not really thinking about what could the future be like. But when that offer came in or that opportunity came in, I was like, great, this is something I definitely think I could do. I know it could do, especially when I heard like what it's all about? What is it all about? What do you tell you? Like? This is what you're gonna do daily? Yeah? I would ask that, like what do I do every day? Absolutely? What did you ask him? What do you say? He just told me you're pretty much gonna be an advocate for a group of songwriters or artists that write as well, and you're going to be the person pretty much supporting them, incentivizing or networking songs throughout out the community to get them in the right hands hopefully someone that's gonna record a song it gets on the radio. And when I just saw a lot of it was number one. You're gonna be diving into a song catalogue from decades you know that Warner owns, and even songs like that. You're going to try to find a home for them if they've never been recorded before. Then number two, you're networking with people in town obviously trying to build relationships where when time the timing is right, there's like something mutually makes sense for everybody. That's when you know, you get a song in the hands of a rite artist. And then finally, you know, just I guess being myself being like an advocate for songwriters, and I was like, I know I could do that. I feel like I've been I think that's all the thing. Like you, we feel like you've been doing that really just not officially, and I was like, I agree, and really just want to know what the rest of the steps of like what would it take for me to get there? And I think it was like we can talk about it, you know, the beginning the new year, will come back. And I was planning to be in town anyways for that because I had to actually come to town to interview Chase right before his record came out. So I was like, Hey, I'm in town anyways, I'm gonna take another meeting there and you know, talk to Ben Vaughan about what things could look like. And Ben Von's like, meet me at a waffle house in Brentwood. I was like, all right, great, and I think at that time I was on PTO from my job. I still brought my bad pack in my work laptop because I appreciate a meeting. I got three pm after I was going to meet up with Ben and I need to, you know, call in, just be there, be present, and you know, hung out with Ben a little more, and like we'd met each other a couple of times, had a couple of conversations, and you just start going through, these are the people you could be working with. You're the kind of writers you might have a chance to work with. And it'd be a lot of familiar names, people that I already knew, either personally or i'd always been a fan of. And he's like, yeah, that's gonna be your job is to they have a catalogust songs, and you're going to be the person pretty much evangelizing for them, making sure that these songs find a home. And I was like, I don't know, I've never been more excited than just thinking about what I could be doing in a job. And truly, I mean I went home still after that trip and it was more like informer like this could this is probably real. But for me, it was not real until I got like an HRM phone call. I was just like at home in Houston and they're like, hey, like what's going on, Like how are you doing? And where are you at as far as like in the job thing, like are you looking anywhere else in the industry. I was like, I'd interviewed for another job in like my current field, but um, non music. And they're like, well, the software still stands if you want it, and like a dream. It's literally you were doing kids. We're just passionate about it, not really pursuing a job because who even knew that how to get into that job and you just did it consistently and passionately. And then it came up and knocked on the door and I've moved within Let's tell him, Mike. I moved like within like two to three weeks. I think They're like, could you start in February? I was like, I also could start really quickly, but I was like, let me be smart and give myself a buffer and not just be like overwhelmed, and um I think I just I started like the end of February, and I think the last minute my old job was like on a Friday and I literally pad two suitcases and flew out that falling Saturday to Nashville full time. And luckily, since I'd come out here so many times and I'd use the same Airbnb to interview artists and stay there. When those owners knew I was, I had an opportunity out here, They're like, you can just stay here while you get settled, And it was one of those ways where I could come here and be very comfortable, you know what I mean. I wasn't just like where do I go? Right? I don't know anybody here. I'd come a time the past two years, and what it feels like when I moved here, I didn't know anybody, didn't know anything about town, didn't That's that is really a comfortable situation. I'm not complaining. I'm a big fan of it. And I was able to kind of hit the ground running here in town and just super grateful. It's just one of those situations that I'm like, I know, I'm blessed because of it and the work I get to do to serve people here in town, like it is super fulfilling. I think that was something growing up I was always good at, like serving on behalf of people I cared about out and sometimes it's kind of hard to serve yourself the same way sometimes easier to do for others. Is what I found and kind of the perfect job, you know what I mean to be Like you serve people every single day and you find creative ways to you know, get their name out there, to get their songs heard by the right people. And um, so far, like four weeks in, but you know, I'm loving it already. There's something new to learn every single day. I'm definitely not finished product, but it's it's definitely, I think, for me, the best job because I got to be myself. Like, let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. Wow, and we're back on the Bobby Cast. You were with Neon Union before he came over here, just had lunch with them. Yeah, So what's it like meaning with those guys, Like, what was the purpose? The purpose is right? So I had a roster writers, right, I had to had to represent a Neon Union is one of those you know as a duo. There my riders and they had just gotten off like a long slog you know, radio tour, you know, for a long time and they finally just got back in town where they could just relax and also have rights with other writers in town, you know what I mean, on their calendar. And I was like I taught to you know, some of the members, you know, back and forth like on online, on Instagram, texting them, but I never met them in person. So it's like, hey, like they're actually in town, let me just meet y'all to hang out with you. First time you met him in first time at him in person, you know, first time skin to skin contact, We shook hands contact. That's what I'm saying. It's important. And which, how do you feel about those guys? Oh? I mean they're great. They they're very very you know, down home guys. Incredibly talented though, like just their backgrounds it's amazing, Like Leo oft on Union, like his bright background, like working for with pit Bull, writing songs with him, and they're bringing a ton to Nashville where you know, it's not like they're just waking up and say I just want to write a song. It's like they're coming with a lot of knowledge of, you know, what they want to do and have like a very good ear for what a big song should sound like. And I'm just really excited to get them into rooms with a lot of different kinds of people, and they're just excited to get to work. Man. I mean just talking to them, like they're very very motivated by you know, being on the road doing the radio tour, meeting a lot of people, you know, around the country, making those connections. And I'm like, that's kind of what I'm doing here, you know, just coming into town, meeting as many people as possible and just learn everyone's story. And then I'm saying, well, where's the alignment where we could work together that makes sense for the benefit of our riders and artists, you know what I mean. And that's why I got from them. Just people ready to do whatever. They're ready to write with any kind of person. One. It does a lot of camps, you know, a lot of like riding camps with like we just had like an Asia Pacific one. They did a Latin America one, and like I have a friend who did a Latin America one, and he's like, I'd never writen Latin music in my life, and they and you make it happen, you figure it out, and it's really cool, like kind of see that, you know, walking in the office every day and they're like, oh, we'd love to do that type of collaborations. Like it's cool you know where you have riders and a lot of people I work with, they're just like, we just want dive in. We're open, more open than I ever thought people would be. Like you may know a writer and artist just outside looking in you sit down with them and they're like, we just want to be as creative as possible. And that's probably the best part about this town is everyone just wants to be creative. And I think, honestly, that's like twenty twenty one and going on. I'm like I always would joke, like on Instagram or social media, I'd be like, this is the best time to be a fan and a creative in my mind, like there's still like a framework you work out of, but there's really not a lot of rules for a listener. At the end of the day, they only know what they know. And I think after like you know, the pandemic and streaming blew up for country music, it's like fans are down to listen to anything and everything and whatever's classifized country. There's so many different lanes that in my mind everything can co exist in and now I get to kind of work with every kind of writer, every kind of artist, and that's just so fulfilling for me as like a music fan, you know at heart, when you get a publishing deal, are you paid a salary? And can you make more than that salary? Every single deal is different. I think that's a lot to talk to Ben Advits like, every single deal is different depending on the writer you're signing or the artists you're signing. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of standard deals where you are making a salary of sorts. But of course, as you probably know, with radio, I mean, if a song does very well on radio, it goes number one, or if it's even like top five, I mean there's definitely incentives. There's ways that people can make more money, you know, with royalties, so based on how well that their songs are recorded due and I know it's streaming, there are ways to make money. But with songwriting, it's it's definitely tough, just as it is today and it's getting better. But yes, every situation is different because every person that's coming to the table for a songwriting or a publishing deal, I mean they may be coming in with, you know, different chips to the table. Some people may be brand new to town. Some people may be a very known quantity. So every deal is different. So I got a couple of friends when they moved here, they made like forty grand a year that was recupable if they made over it they reached that limit, and then they made money if their songs. They made a percentage of the money once their songs started to make money. Is that common at all now? Is that still common ish? For sure? It doesn't mean that, not that amount of money, But it's like I gotta eat, So can I make forty five thousand dollars a year plus whatever I can make if the song does well. Absolutely, And obviously you can get technacal with it, right because I mean some people own right the masters, and not everybody's going to have that type of situation when they get into, you know, into the music business. But I think there are a lot of different ways people can make money through songwriting, and I'm as advocates for it. We're always trying to find more avenues for are people to make as much money as possible, So like that's kind of the goal, and I'm grateful just to see that with technology things are opening up. I mean, more people are fighting for that, and yeah, I think we're getting closer to a day where you can just be a songwriter for a living, and even I think I think maybe the good thing about a thirty six song alb from Morgan Wallan is you can have a song be just an album song, but go insane on streaming to the point where you're going to get close enough for people can actually makes some good money off of that. So when people complain it's too many songs, I say no, just because there's so many outside songs I think that were cut off of that record that would never seen the light of day otherwise. And I don't know, it's kind of people are worked their whole you know, life, every single day of the year to write just the best song. And Morgan wall had options to choose like the best songs from these groups of songwriters, and you got to pull all of those on his record. And for me, it's a big win for Nashville, you know, because it's so many different kinds of publishers were involved in it. And yeah, it's just you don't see it all the time anymore. So it's really cool by you know, him his team to be like, we're just gonna pick the best songs. And John Party does a great job about that too, just picking the best song. And yeah, Chesney's another guy who picks and you know you may not work with him directly, but you know he's a guy that just goes through and he's like, I don't need to write the songs there there are people who are great songwriting. I'm just gonna grab the best songs. Absolutely cold as that too. As a great songwriter, he will go and still say, yeah, I'm a good songwriter, but sometimes the song has written better than what I have. He will open lego, I'm looking for good songs. And I admire that, especially for the people that are great songwriters that still go I maybe good or even great, but doesn't mean great all the time. And I have every great song. So I think that's pretty cool. Dan Smyers we mentioned him earlier, you know Dan at all I do because I got the you know, I had the pleasure of interviewing him, and I guess my joke with that was like I think it was during like the football seasons, like he was like we interview people on Sunday as a country central and I mean, I know he's a huge Steelers fan, so he took like the whole game off to like interview with us. And yeah, he's also like you said, he's very like in tune. He's the guy kind of he produces you said, atrol freak grong, but yeah, go ahead. He's very particular about how his product is. And I don't know he's somebody were he just he dived into everything and and I think the cool thing for me just interviewed him is that I was a huge fan of just like what he did before he even got with and Dan Shay became what they are, and I believe it was him and Andy Albert, and I remember following them because I listened to rock stuff. I wasn't like the rock band he was in before he moved to Nashville. And then when him and Andy got together a group called Bonaventure, and I just remember seeing like, this is a guy knew that tour the bands I loved as a kid, and he's in Nashville. And when Dan and Shaye really blew up, I was like, I'm just happy that someone that I've followed for so many years is like seeing a ton of success and then for literally almost like ten years later for me to like interview him peel talked to him on the phone about whatever. It's just like this guy's like a student of the craft, like just loves music more than anybody, and just to learn really just how Dan Shay came to be the grind that he took to get to where he's today, and then his process of around recording music, writing music, and how he stayed creative working with other artists. It's just like it was the most inspiring thing, you know, talking to him, and then even before about this job, Like I think I texted him and I think like talking about, hey, this is an opportunity, it could happen, And I remember telling like, yeah, you know, obviously I knew I could do it and I want it, but like you know, I didn't grow up. You know, I think I was going to do this. I didn't go to school for this. And he stopped me. He's like, dude, like stop thinking that way. You know what I mean, Like if you care enough, if you're you obviously have passion for it and something that you love, and if you keep that as you're focused. I mean, you're going to be successful at it. And I don't know. I mean, he not have to tell me that, you know what I mean, plus exactly, And I was just like one of the best people that I've met this town. And I don't know. Man again, the like I said, with my life, it's like it's just funny when you at least expected just the craziest opportunities blessings come your way, and just me being here, like you said, it's a dream for me. It's something I never thought would have been possible. Last question for you. So I recorded a song called Hobby Lobby. Bobby probably heard its mathif head all over the world, right, And I think I made like so far like fifty one thousand dollars from this one song, right, which feel pretty good about because I never it's not a song that we wanted to come out. I mean it's nineteen sixty four or something like that. It's been like five years, four or five years, but we I never we put out and I put out my stuff as just basically promo material. Sure, right, no one's gonna srain this stuff over and over. It's a live comedy record, and we do this. But it's done pretty well. Now I will sell it to you guys for one million dollars? Would you would you like to have it? Yes? Or no? Well one the song or your catalog. I'm not on the catalog. That's worth far, that's worth one hundred million. I'd have to go for Aldine on you guys one hobby lobby bab be one million dollars. Way say take or leave it? I was, oh, is it featuring? Is this one you did with like when Jordan Davison Laney were on. Oh no, that's a recent one. That one's called Opening Act. I feel like we have more lanes with two million dollars for that one, for both together. No, just for that second one. Yeah, I gotta feel I need to talk to I need to talk to our CFO. You know he's he's the numbers. Got to shoot your shot. It'd be close, you know, very I know you guys working on thin margins here, but you know, you never know what's gonna happen. No, you're right about the songwriter issue too, and have friends that have testified on the hill and it is something that it's such a craft and an art and if it did not exist there will be a lot of art that we don't appreciate as much because we have it. But something has to be done, you know. And I've also well I was gonna say under the covers that ain't the right term, but behind the scenes talked to some lawmakers as well, you know, a couple of senators, a couple former senators, and radio streaming. It is such an ill appreciated art and I don't do it near the level of what the great songwriters in town do here. Listen, I just write stupid comedy stuff. But even then like it at least gives me the respect. Although I will say Ben was the head of a deal that we did me, Nicole Galleon and Ross Copperman. We did a group called nie On People Secretly and Ben was the guy and he was the one like making sure I'll write in the word secret and he put all fake names on us. He's great and so yeah, he's been great. But it is when you bring up songwriting, how songwriters aren't paid enough through streaming. I think you can pay more to be a background singer than you do a songwriter for the most part on these tracks. And it is but the fact that that's even close to be in the case, it's it's a it's a disservice to songwriters all over Nashville and LA in New York or wherever they're writing the song. So that's why for me, like even just before I even came here to Nashville, wife, for me, I'm like, it takes zero for me to know a huge songs coming out and just let regular listeners know who wrote it. I would literally just tag their Instagram hand on every review we did. Anytime I just said this song is amazing, I'd say this who wrote it? And it takes a second to do it, but it builds awareness, it builds appreciation, and then if that leads to people streaming more of like what those writers write, or if they ever put out music of their own and people now recognize their name and they're a fan, then we're helping them out. And I think right now it's a very cool time to be in the world music and publishing especially, and there's so many different opportunities to get songs heard. So I know it's getting better, it's gonna continue to get better, and I know this is a this is my job, So I'm very crazy, isn't it crazy. I'm grateful. I feel that way too sometimes, like this is my freaking job, and like it's not like every well, it'll be hard days, obviously, it's just every go and the jobs suck sometimes, but every job is supposed to suck a little bit, so it's it's amazing. So congratulations. I get to listen to a song and decide how that makes me feel, and it makes you feel really great. I'll tell a couple of other people and hopefully we can build some momentum to get some great songs heard and elte and then no one ever hears a song again. I will never haven't done, haven't done an ee, haven't done it yet listening congratulations, I appreciate them. That's awesome. It's your story is amazing. Just you were just doing your thing. That's it, Just do your thing passionately. I thought that's how it's supposed to go. But I guess for me, I can never visualize it for myself until it happened, and um now I'm here. It's it's a wildlife around here. As we mentioned in the Prix at the Beni Chord c H O R D the Bengie Chord, it feels like one of those barcards. I can't quite play because my fingers are weak. Because I can do G and D and A and eat, but and I can do F. But then once against some of the the Benjie chords hard. You know, when I played the bee and asked me if it was a play on words with Bungee chords, someone like messaged me that. I was like, no, I literally play. I like guitar, and I don't know. That happens every now and then I get that message. Is that not your real name? Yeah, say your real name? My name is Benji or Benjamin Chord Chord. That's not your real name though. That was not a last name, this one. I've heard the chord I've heard. I don't think Chord's a last name. Oh, I know, I know some chords, some chords. Yeah, but when I came, I always thought, your last name is Benji Chord. That is not my last name. That is an alias. Okay, well listen, I'll live by an alias, so no judgment for me. Mike, did you know that wasn't his real last name? Yeah? I never knew that wasn't a yeah, but sometimes people like go bones. Is that you were last name, and I'm like, you idiot, of course it's not my real last name. That did happen though. I went to the Opry recently to catch one of my art one of my favorite artists, Play is a debut, and like they'd put my name as bencoord so I could not get in like I would have been like, oh, I got turned here, I got turned away. When I'm like, what's your first last name? I say, and they're like you're not on the list, Like they're like turning me away. Then like I gotta call him right, No, no, we got you. That's happened. With tickets, they'll put them to Bobby Bones and I'm lit with I d okay. Well here's the thing though, man, before you before you say no, it's it's actually listen. Congratulations. I appreciate man, Thank you for having me on. Really cool. And I know we hit you up because Mike and I've been talking about you for a while and he's like, let's hit him up. It see if we'll come up. And so it's been awesome. Mike. Anything you want to say, how is your quest for the perfect gym going? It is? And your arms are here? I do it took me everything not to even make a curl joke or a go ahead I did. I'm doing Planet Fitness on the weekdays early because you can't. When you go like after work, people gonna be like swinging from the equipment, you know, like like it's a drum or whatever. But I on the weekends is when I go the random gyms in town then, like the nice ones that people recommend to me and like they'll give me a trial to try it out. And I've gone to three of them so far, and I think for me, it's like the place I'm out right now is like the AIRBNBM staying at and it's like maybe fifteen minutes away from town. But until I'm like this is where I'm gonna be permanently be invested. But there's some really nice ones. So if y'all know any and have any, like you know, recommendations for me, I'm always open ears for the perfect gym. And no, I don't feel like I'm qualified to look at your arms and your shoulders. I'm a simple I'm a simple guy when it comes to the gym. I don't need too much. Yeah, that's give me a boulder. I'll figure it out. You know a you guys follow at the Beni Chord on Instagram. Bench you good to see a buddy. I Love this episode of the Bobby Cast. Subscribe on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.