Puppy Culture Potluck: Ep15 - Mentors for Puppy Owners: Do We Need a New Kind of Professional?

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,800
I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist,

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:15,760
and this is a Puppy Culture
potluck podcast.

3
00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:20,160
You bring the topics,
we bring the conversation.

4
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,360
This week's topic is a post that I wrote

5
00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,800
into the Puppy Culture
discussion group on Facebook.

6
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,840
And it was just something
that's been on my mind

7
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,960
and I threw it out there and it got

8
00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,440
unbelievable crazy traction.

9
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,280
So here's the post.

10
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,440
This is what I wrote.

11
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,480
Just throwing it out there.

12
00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:47,640
I have no interest in doing this,
but I feel there is

13
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,240
a general need
for a new kind of dog professional.

14
00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,000
Don't you feel that many puppy owners

15
00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:01,560
could use something like an IN PERSON
puppy parenting coach?

16
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,480
So not dog training per se.

17
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,040
More like a breeder mentor
for puppy owners.

18
00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:14,440
It just seems like puppy owners
throw a lot of effort

19
00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,560
against things
that are not really problems,

20
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,880
but they don't know
those things are not problems

21
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,720
because they don't have someone
with enough wisdom and experience

22
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,280
to point that out.

23
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:28,080
Someone who's

24
00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:33,560
raised a hundred puppies, particularly
if they've raised puppies of that breed,

25
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,520
could really save those owners
a lot of trouble.

26
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:39,800
What do you think?

27
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,640
Would
any of you be interested in doing this?

28
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,920
Wow, the answer is crazy.

29
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,080
I would say overwhelmingly

30
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,680
people were like, Heck yeah,

31
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,760
either we need this

32
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,760
or breeders saying that,

33
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,800
yes, I actually have offered this service.

34
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,560
This is a thing.

35
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,200
And let me just say, when I used to do

36
00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,800
dog training consults,

37
00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,200
this was my business.

38
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,680
I would sell a dog training session,

39
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,040
but I am telling you, 98

40
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,720
times out of 100, they would come to me

41
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,080
and walk up my front walkway
and they'd be like, “Do you see?

42
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,160
Do you see the, do you see what's up?”
And I'd be like, Yeah, What?

43
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,160
It's normal.

44
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:33,720
What's your question?

45
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,400
That will be $250.

46
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:36,600
And the people were happy.

47
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,800
They just wanted somebody to lay
eyeballs on the dog and let them know.

48
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,240
In the discussion groups, we see it
all the time where people are like

49
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,200
my puppies biting me, my puppies
aggressive or something to this effect.

50
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,720
And then we see a video of the puppy
and it's a normal puppy that is playing.

51
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,560
And you can't blame puppy owners because
they don't know the difference, okay?

52
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,520
They don't know the difference
between a puppy play growling

53
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,280
and tugging on your pant leg or really
being aggressive and it's a serious

54
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:10,560
distinction,

55
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,400
but it's not something
that you can go to school and find out.

56
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,680
It's something that you just have
to have looked at, an awful lot of puppies

57
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,960
to know the difference.

58
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,240
These puppy owners bring their puppies
to trainers and the trainers

59
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,280
offer them the gifts that they have,
which is the gift of modifying behavior.

60
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,640
The puppy is doing this thing
and the trainer is addressing it,

61
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,640
showing them
how to modify behavior, how to train,

62
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,600
and if it's a good trainer,
positive and fantastic.

63
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,520
But it's not addressing
the underlying issue for the puppy owner,

64
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,920
which is is my puppy okay?

65
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:48,600
Is my puppy normal?

66
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,280
And I'm just going to say,

67
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,000
in my experience,
having placed a large number of puppies

68
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:59,720
and knowing the history of hundreds
more placed by my breeder friends,

69
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,800
very close friends, that I do really know
the history of these litters intimately.

70
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,480
Not a lot of dog trainers who aren't also

71
00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,760
breeders are really capable
of making this distinction.

72
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,200
Now, at this point, I'm going to say that

73
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,800
there was a lot of confusion
in this thread

74
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,960
and a lot of it with dog trainers,

75
00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,800
that said, but this is what I do.

76
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:27,960
This is this is what I do.

77
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,640
And if you are a dog trainer
and you're listening

78
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,800
to this, I beg of you to please
listen to the end, because I do think

79
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,000
that there is a professional opportunity
for you here.

80
00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,600
I think that there's a niche
that needs to be filled

81
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,760
that is not currently being filled
and dog trainers with the right kind

82
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:53,400
of experience could very easily fill this,
but they are not currently filling it.

83
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:55,800
So keep an open mind.

84
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,520
Please listen on. Now.

85
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,560
Here's my wish list.

86
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,680
With Puppy Culture in my seminars,

87
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,240
I always say,
listen, dog breeders are not dog trainers.

88
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:08,760
They don't want to be dog trainers.

89
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,200
If they wanted to be dog trainers,
they'd be dog trainers.

90
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,320
That's kind of a thing with Puppy Culture,
because Puppy Culture is

91
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,360
a it's a puppy program.

92
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:21,840
It's not a breeder program.

93
00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:23,520
It's not a trainer program.

94
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,920
It's not a puppy owner program.
It's a puppy program.

95
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,920
So it's serving the puppy
what the puppy needs, which

96
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,960
so happens to include
quite a bit of training

97
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,600
and quite early at the time
where the breeder has the puppy.

98
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,320
So the breeders get pushed into that lane.

99
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,760
It's not their comfort zone.

100
00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,680
And at the time when I made Puppy Culture,

101
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,800
I really thought that we were going

102
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,600
to see a lot more trainers
working with breeders

103
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,360
to do the Puppy Culture protocols.

104
00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,800
And there are some in fact,
we had a question about that this week,

105
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,000
which I might do another podcast about
because I love this idea,

106
00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:06,960
bringing people in

107
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,800
to work with your litter, because again,
breeders often are not the best trainers.

108
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,640
Trainers are really good trainers
and puppies need training.

109
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,560
Starting at four weeks in my breed. So

110
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:19,440
I'd like to see that.

111
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,560
But what I'm saying is
I also want to see some going

112
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,960
the other way too, where the trainers
are staying in their training lane

113
00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,880
and the breeders are coming in
with their expertise,

114
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,160
which is more just wisdom about
what's normal and what's not

115
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,960
and what really has to be fixed
and what doesn't.

116
00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:43,320
Probably 20%
of the puppies that I place, even

117
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:48,480
though I do help my puppy owners find good
dog training classes,

118
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,480
some trainer will recommend
putting a pinch collar on the dog

119
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,520
because the dog's aggressive and my,
you know, my dogs are not aggressive.

120
00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,640
The trainers, they can't read the dog.

121
00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,880
This is not dissing

122
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,480
the amazing gifts that trainers
bring to the table in our team.

123
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,920
But what
it's saying is that we have lanes.

124
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:16,200
The dog training lane is best served
generally by a dog trainer.

125
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,000
How do you get behaviors?

126
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,200
How do you shape things?

127
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,120
How do you look for antecedents,
antecedents, behavior, consequence,

128
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,400
good dog trainer can really instill this
in the puppy owner.

129
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,440
But you know, when the puppy owner has
the puppy at home and it's 7:00 at night

130
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,440
and the puppies running around the house
doing something, biting whatever,

131
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,000
and the puppy owner just can't read,
is this normal or not?

132
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,840
That's an in-person
visit to the person's house.

133
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:43,960
That's somebody just walking in
and taking one

134
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,360
look at that puppy and saying,
this is a normal puppy at 7:00 at night.

135
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,280
I think there's even room

136
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:56,040
for very breed
specific versions of this professional,

137
00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:01,120
just literally the voice of of dogs,
The way that they express each other

138
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,800
as puppies can be very different,
specifically with breeds.

139
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,800
So I just think when we're talking
about this because a lot of dog trainers

140
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,200
did write in and say,
Oh yeah, I offer that service,

141
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:19,000
but I feel like this is a breeder thing
or, or a person who's raised

142
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,080
a lot of foster litters.

143
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,840
And I will qualify that and say raised

144
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,080
and placed
and worked with the puppy owners.

145
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,440
There's a kind of mileage that you get

146
00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,400
by raising the puppies,

147
00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,000
raising them in your house,
placing them outside of your house,

148
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,480
dealing with all of this again and again,
seeing how puppy owners

149
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:49,200
can be sort of flummoxed by normal puppy
behavior and just understanding that

150
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,120
and particularly breed
and type specifically,

151
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,440
I think it's a needed niche.

152
00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,760
So let me read you
some of these answers that came in.

153
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,840
Yes, I am part of a service dog
breeding program and I have always acted

154
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,360
as mentor to anyone local

155
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,120
who's new to the program or
anyone who gets one of my girls puppies.

156
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,520
So this woman breeds she's both a breeder
and she's

157
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,080
part of a service dog
breeding program, pre-COVID.

158
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,000
We met in groups of people
with puppies of similar ages,

159
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,040
experienced fosters and new people.

160
00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,440
Having someone who has experience
was a huge help.

161
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,920
The success rate for Fosters goes way up.

162
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,920
And then she says, You would be shocked at

163
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,600
how many pups are returned
because they quote unquote bite.

164
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:44,040
Well, Sharon, No, I would not be surprised
because we see it every day.

165
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,040
So, you know, that's your unicorn
dog trainer, the one that both has

166
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:53,280
the experience raising her own litters,
doing tons of service dog breeding.

167
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,240
You get a volume of experience.

168
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,120
It's hard to get anywhere else.

169
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,600
And she's a dog trainer,
so she can really come at it

170
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:06,600
from all angles, see,
that's the kind of person that we need.

171
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,560
Somebody else says,
I love this idea as a dog trainer.

172
00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:14,120
Now, this woman is a breeder, too,
but she says as a dog trainer,

173
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,480
I find myself giving more support
than training to most puppy parents.

174
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:20,880
I mean, exactly.

175
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:21,720
This is what happened

176
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,840
when we did our puppy course
With Open Arms in Madcap University.

177
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,320
Not that I'm shilling
for it, but there it is.

178
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,600
This is what we did.

179
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,120
I do have a lot of training in it.

180
00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,760
I do show you how to train behaviors,
but I realize the stumbling block

181
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,640
for people is not so much

182
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,160
how to get your puppy to sit
or walk on leash,

183
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,400
although that can be its own challenge.

184
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,520
It's, how do I carry this puppy home?

185
00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:54,120
What's reasonable as far as
how much activity the puppy should have?

186
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,040
What my what should my schedule look like?

187
00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,840
What does physically my house
look like set up?

188
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,640
These are the kinds of things that really
are stumbling blocks for puppy owners.

189
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,800
And yes, as a dog trainer, I agree.

190
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,880
I spend a lot more time
just telling people, yeah, you know,

191
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,840
your puppy's normal.

192
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:12,560
So here's another one.

193
00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:16,080
I think that breeding mentors
are sorely lacking these days.

194
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,080
Even in my breed that has a breed mentor
list with the National Club.

195
00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:24,080
Now I think that she's talking
specifically

196
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,440
about mentoring other breeders,
but it used to be

197
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,600
I remember when I started,

198
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,560
I went to my local kennel club
and there were some ladies

199
00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:38,360
there that helped me
and I struggled with some things.

200
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,480
And this was the nineties,
This was before the Internet really.

201
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,400
And people would come
to your house and help you.

202
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,920
Now I'm
going to just pivot a little bit on this

203
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,760
and talk about the dog trainers

204
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,200
that have become real phenomenon

205
00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,440
on the Internet and television
before the Internet was around.

206
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:06,520
And I'm going to call out
Cesar Millan and also Barbara

207
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,440
Woodhouse, if you remember Walkies,
Walkies, Barbara Woodhouse,

208
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,840
Monks of New Skete, that's another one.

209
00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,280
Now I'm going to say all three of these

210
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,680
entities, I do not recommend that

211
00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:23,040
you read their books, don't recommend
you watch their shows.

212
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,360
They are terrible.

213
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,720
But, but their allure

214
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,520
is that they present as knowing dogs.

215
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:39,960
They give that feeling of mentorship,
like, Listen, I just know dogs.

216
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,320
They're not famous for being great dog
trainers.

217
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,400
They're famous
for being great knowers of dogs.

218
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,200
And I think that's the piece.

219
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,240
That's what people are looking for.

220
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,280
And I think if we can get people who are,
I should say,

221
00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,840
forward thinking
and not stuck in the ancient days

222
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:07,000
as far as dominance dog training,
I think that would be a really good thing.

223
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,120
Oh, so here's another one that,

224
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:11,600
my breed;

225
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,160
I think this is a great idea.

226
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,040
I had a mini bull returned to me
after one week.

227
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,880
Puppy was then ten weeks old.

228
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,680
The reason given was that a behaviorist
had said he had no impulse control

229
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,480
and that he went after them to bite them.

230
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,000
I really thought I had a monster
coming home.

231
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:35,040
Turns out he was a normal mini bull pup

232
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,240
and settled into an alternative home
with no problems.

233
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,960
I'm just going to say Amen, sister,
because

234
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,440
I have had this happen. Also.

235
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,040
It happens with Staffy bulls because
I know a lot of Staffy bull breeders.

236
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,960
I think there is breed specific behavior

237
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,440
that's just normal for our breeds,
and particularly the bull breeds.

238
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,120
A lot of the people that wrote in, in

239
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:03,240
support of this

240
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,400
idea either had primitive breeds
or bull breeds, which is very interesting

241
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:08,520
because I think they tend to be

242
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,720
a little bit of outliers
as far as normal puppy behavior.

243
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:12,960
Oh, yeah.

244
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,240
Here I mentioned the primitive breeds.

245
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,720
Totally agree.

246
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,560
A bunch of Sheba
breeders were just joshing around recently

247
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,840
and they're like, We need puppy growers.

248
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,640
And then responding to that,
Yes, in my breed Sheba's,

249
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,040
there are some puppy behaviors
that are normal for the breed,

250
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,960
but sometimes very worrying for new owners
and for trainers

251
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,720
that have no experience
with such primitive breeds.

252
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,080
Sometimes trainers will even do damage
if their methods are wrong.

253
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,080
I support my owners from the start
and I believe many here

254
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,760
do, as I think that is an important part
of Puppy Culture breeders.

255
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,600
But I do help to others that reach out

256
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,120
with these question
about their Shiba puppies and what to do.

257
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,560
Here's another one; 100%.

258
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,160
I had family members
convinced that they wanted a puppy, but

259
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:11,000
in less than a week say it was too much
work and re-home the puppy with a friend.

260
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,240
Very frustrating for me to see happen

261
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,080
as I helped them
locate the puppy from a great breeder,

262
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,400
but better than the puppy
living in a bad situation.

263
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,680
They absolutely could have used
personalized in-home help.

264
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:30,480
I shared puppy books, my favorite toys
and chews, and even photos

265
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:35,160
of my expen and crate setups
and even that didn't help them.

266
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,760
They needed someone hands on.

267
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,680
Again, Amen sister.

268
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,880
I mean, I'm the Puppy Culture lady.

269
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,520
I'm the impossible dog lady.

270
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,920
I am the puppy course lady.

271
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,440
And my puppy owners,
as soon as they're in the queue

272
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,680
to get a puppy from me, they absolutely
are getting all of these resources.

273
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,800
We have groups.

274
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,640
I go over with them.

275
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,800
I'm like, this week
you should be watching this.

276
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,840
I prepare them, I drip feed information
and I am telling you,

277
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,880
I still have to go to their house
half the times.

278
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,000
It's difficult for some people
to see a picture of my set up and me

279
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,760
saying This is how I do it,
and then look at their house and say, Why?

280
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,280
I don't know where to put the pen or I
don't know how to set this up so it works.

281
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,400
I don't know how to do this too.

282
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,520
So the puppies not being frustrated
or the puppies not being overstimulated

283
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:32,680
or under stimulated, and

284
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:34,880
it takes

285
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,680
2 minutes of being in the house
to help them with that.

286
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,560
To my point, here's another one;

287
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,680
I offer my time to my families
now with a Facebook private group.

288
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,440
However, they have to initiate.

289
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,440
Some have a hard time knowing
whether it's just breed behavior versus

290
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,480
something that needs true
diversion or correcting.

291
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,560
I will have them ask me something
that I will gladly help them.

292
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:04,560
But in the end, their puppy has
their number and is leading the charge.

293
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,120
Yeah, I've had puppies

294
00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:10,640
and their owners come and stay with me

295
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,080
when they were having problems
and she's seen the behavior firsthand

296
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,680
and been like, Yeah, no, I mean no, this,
this puppy can't be doing this to you.

297
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,480
This is just this is a hard no.

298
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,800
And I don't mean I correct the puppy,
but I just redirect the puppy.

299
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,840
But you see the difference is I'm
not afraid of the puppy.

300
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,160
I just know this puppy's just pushing.

301
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,960
It's not it's not a bad puppy.

302
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,520
It's not an aggressive puppy.

303
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,960
But to somebody that doesn't know it,
you can't blame people they don't know.

304
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,000
They need somebody
to lay eyeballs on their puppy and say

305
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,080
yay or nay.

306
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,040
I just want to say here,
I've been going on and on about,

307
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,960
you know, how we can just show up and say,
Oh, yeah, you're puppies normal.

308
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,120
But sometimes, you know,
the puppies not normal.

309
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:56,480
That has definitely happened.

310
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,520
Certainly people have brought me.

311
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,560
I can think of one in particular
that I just said to her

312
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,520
she'd gotten it from,
I don't even know where she got the puppy.

313
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,840
Some backyard situation,
not a good situation.

314
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,240
And the puppy was emaciated.

315
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,520
It just it didn't look right
and open the crate,

316
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,600
it wouldn't come out
and and it could have even been wormy.

317
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,080
I asked her to bring the puppy to the vet,
make sure it was wormed

318
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,840
and then she brought it back.
And it still was like that.

319
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,000
And I just was like,
you know, this puppy, I

320
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,960
it was almost like the puppy had brain
damage is the only way I can explain it.

321
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,480
It was not a normal puppy.

322
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,240
So sometimes the situation
is not a good one,

323
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,800
and sometimes as a breeder,
you can walk in and just say, Yeah,

324
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,000
this is not a normal puppy, whereas a dog
trainer is always going to try

325
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,040
and train the dog in front of them.

326
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:49,880
That's not their job really.

327
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,000
To say, Yeah,
you should get rid of this dog.

328
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,120
But for me, you know,
I look at that puppy and I'm like,

329
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,000
this is
this is an accident waiting to happen.

330
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,240
There's something wrong
mentally with this puppy.

331
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:01,640
In my

332
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,600
training seminars, and
I traveled the world and I said to Mark,

333
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,680
if I didn't already have bull terriers,
I wouldn't like this breed

334
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,520
if I only saw them at my seminars
because people would bring me all the dogs

335
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,240
that were like, you know, a little weird.

336
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,360
I mean, certainly there was
a lot of lovely, lovely ones, but

337
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,720
people would bring me their dogs
that were just mentally not quite right.

338
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:29,080
And I don't mean aggressive per se,
but just mentally not quite right.

339
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,480
The late, great Pat Hastings
used to say there's mental illness in dogs

340
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,320
and they would bring me
the ones that are just not mentally right.

341
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,720
That's a question for another podcast.

342
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,120
Your responsibility as a breeder
and advising people and yada yada.

343
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:49,440
But my point is that I can tell you,
looking at a bull terrier puppy

344
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,440
in a very short amount of time,
whether it's normal or not,

345
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,440
and I can also tell you

346
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,640
what you're going to have to train away,
work on

347
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,200
or just manage, and it's developmental
and it will pass.

348
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,120
So now I'm going to give you those were
all you know, those were all the yeas.

349
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:09,160
Those were all the people that were like,
Yeah, absolutely, we need this.

350
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,200
And then we got a lot of people
really giving pretty hard pushback

351
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,120
saying, Well, isn't that
what a dog trainer or a breeder should do?

352
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:20,000
So let's see, here's one.

353
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,280
Isn't that kind of what we're supposed
to be giving our families?

354
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,000
Whenever I find out that
a family is struggling, I do everything

355
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,120
I can to help them understand
the problem and the solution.

356
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,040
Unless I'm misunderstanding
what you're getting at.

357
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,200
Another one.

358
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,800
Surely this is what good breeders
give to their puppy

359
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,120
buyers already
we're there for the questions.

360
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:43,320
We send lists home with the owners.

361
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,440
We say don't hesitate to contact us
with any questions or problems.

362
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,680
Some owners need minimum input,
but others need guidance on everything.

363
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:58,280
And then here's one that says, that's
literally a dog trainer, question mark.

364
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,600
And here's another one, that is a service
each breeder should be offering

365
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,720
if they are unwilling to be available
for all questions

366
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,680
and concerns from their puppy buyers,
they should not be breeding.

367
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,760
As a breeder you're responsible
for the puppies you produced

368
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,120
for their entire lives
and you are also responsible

369
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,280
to the new owners
for the life of that puppy.

370
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,440
And then

371
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,800
another
person said, I mean, that's a breeder.

372
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:28,640
24/7 tech support is the way pure
dog talk words it pure dog talk.

373
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,720
There's a little plug for pure dog talk.

374
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,960
She has some great episodes on there,
another podcast.

375
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,080
Okay, so

376
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,280
here's the thing.

377
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,480
That woman who said,
I mean, that's a breeder 27 tech support.

378
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,160
Then she thought about it and she came
back like a half an hour later and said,

379
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,360
although that leaves puppy
people who get their pup

380
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:55,520
from another source like a shelter
or an adoption out in the cold.

381
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,400
Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

382
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,960
Not only that,
but as a breeder, it limits me

383
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,200
to a very small geographic area
where I can place puppies.

384
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,400
So my rule of thumb has always been
I will not

385
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,120
place puppies
further than 5 hours from my house.

386
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,480
Really, I don't like to go more than two
because I want to be able

387
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,280
to get just in a car, go down,
look at the dog.

388
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,280
My last litter, one of the puppies.

389
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,440
I just train the puppy myself
because he's a sweet, darling puppy.

390
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,000
But you know, it's
just too much for the pet owners.

391
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,480
It's really like you need a degree in dog
training to train this dog.

392
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,840
He's very environmentally interested
and not food motivated.

393
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,920
So I meet them once a week.

394
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,760
I train their puppy
and he's going to grow out of it.

395
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:43,520
I know.

396
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,600
But, you know,
they went to another dog trainer

397
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,960
and the dog trainer was like, Oh, you,
you need to put a pinch collar on the dog

398
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,640
because he doesn't
pay attention to you. So

399
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,760
this is the kind of thing

400
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,800
that if they lived 10 hours from me,
I couldn't offer this.

401
00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,160
So what's happens with me is I wind up

402
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,080
passing on a lot of really great homes,

403
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,040
probably people that would make
wonderful homes for my puppies.

404
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,760
But I just can't take a chance
because I can't be there for them.

405
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,320
There was a lot of people
that wrote in enumerating

406
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,680
all they have their Facebook groups,
they have

407
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,200
all their stuff that they do, their group
chats, their Zoom meetings.

408
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,240
And I found it very interesting that

409
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,160
it's sort of scaled
with the size and difficulty of the dogs.

410
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,440
So toy breeds smaller dogs.

411
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,200
Those people basically are like,
Well, yeah, I mean, we just

412
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,120
we have zooms, we meet, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, because they're just

413
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,120
generally easier to manage.

414
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:48,640
But as soon as the size of the dog
starts going up and also you get into dogs

415
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,000
that are outliers
behaviorally in the sense

416
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,600
of what's normal, like your primitive
breeds and your bull breeds.

417
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,840
People were saying, Yeah,

418
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,600
we really need this.

419
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,440
Oh, here's another one.

420
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,800
As a breeder,
I already do this for free for my puppies.

421
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,360
They have endless access for life
of any of my puppies.

422
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:17,160
For questions, we set up training,
calls for progress and next steps.

423
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,440
I'm a CPDTKA.

424
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,760
trainer and offer the same service
for any puppy starting at eight weeks.

425
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,200
Most trainers don't have
the litter experience and are way off

426
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,760
because of their lack of experience
with puppies that age.

427
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,480
Lots of unnecessary mistakes.

428
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,200
You would tear your hair out
if I gave you examples.

429
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:40,680
Yeah.

430
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,680
Hair being torn already, you know.

431
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,080
Absolutely. That's my point.

432
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,560
But listen, I sit on both sides.

433
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,640
I'm a dog trainer and I am a breeder

434
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,560
with a lot of experience
with dogs and puppies in particular.

435
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,040
And I really see both sides.

436
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,760
Dog trainers are very

437
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,000
good at what they do,
which is training dogs.

438
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,240
But there does come a point

439
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,360
where training is not the answer.

440
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,280
That is where

441
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,520
somebody with just the wisdom
and experience

442
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,240
to know puppies can give that puppy owner
something else they need.

443
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,320
That's that's not training.

444
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,160
To a man with a hammer,
every problem looks like a nail

445
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,280
and I think we suffer a lot from that
with sending our puppies

446
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,480
to dog trainers for behavioral, quote
unquote problems.

447
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,720
In my experience, it's
two different buckets.

448
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,840
They don't sort together at all.

449
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,600
And you really need

450
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,560
all kinds of people on your team.

451
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,840
You need the dog trainers on your team.

452
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,280
But I think we're asking
too much of the dog trainers

453
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,080
in a lot of cases,
too, to tackle these things.

454
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,240
Now, what would be my

455
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,680
wish list
is that more trainers were breeders.

456
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,480
I would love this.

457
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:09,480
So number one, I think it's a great path
for trainers to take to do a few litters.

458
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,360
I always say five generations.

459
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,440
You just do just do five generations

460
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,600
and you place those puppies in homes.

461
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,680
You whelp the litters,
you raise the litters, you place

462
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,600
the litters,
you interface with those puppy owners.

463
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,680
You are going to know
everything you need to know.

464
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,880
But it does take about five generations
because you have to have some stuff

465
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,960
blow up in your face
and it takes time, right?

466
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:34,360
To learn.

467
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:35,760
That would be great.

468
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,560
That would be my dream
that that became a thing

469
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,240
that trainers did, that they
they started breeding dogs.

470
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,320
If philosophically,
that's not for you do Foster.

471
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,840
Whelp litters for Foster.

472
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,080
Now, my caveat for that is if I

473
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,360
were you

474
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:55,640
and I as a dog trainer,

475
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,400
I want to get expertise in this litter,
I would say I would agree to do it,

476
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,480
but I would stipulate
that you place the puppies

477
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,640
and you follow up with those puppies
and you prescribe

478
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,480
how those puppies are going to be raised
and taken care of in their new homes.

479
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:10,840
Because, again, you know,

480
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,760
rescue organizations
can tend to be very controlling about it.

481
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:15,600
And I get it.

482
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,680
They have to have quality control
because most of the people helping litters

483
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,760
are just good hearted people
that don't know much about dogs.

484
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,480
They're just doing a compassionate thing
by helping.

485
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,360
But as a professional, if you
if you want to get to that next level,

486
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:31,760
you do really have to

487
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,080
place the puppies and deal with them, deal
with the puppy owners.

488
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,440
So I think there could be one or two
trainers out there that might be saying,

489
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,120
no, no, no, I can do this.

490
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:45,240
I don't I don't need somebody
that's bred and raised a lot of puppies

491
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,960
and I'm certified. I know what I'm doing.

492
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,840
And the only thing I can say to you
is this, that

493
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,720
I who have been training

494
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,520
professionally
for decades and breeding for decades,

495
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,640
approach this with extreme humility.

496
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,520
I have an amazing network

497
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:11,400
of friends and co moderators in my groups
that breed a vast

498
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,640
array of different breeds,
and people will often send

499
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,760
in a video of a dog,
a puppy or a mother doing something.

500
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,480
And a lot of times it's a group consult

501
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,480
between the admins and my friends and just
say, Hey, does this look normal to you?

502
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,680
Because this wouldn't
be normal in my breed.

503
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,080
And sometimes it is normal
in another breed.

504
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,000
Sometimes it's not.

505
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,040
So what I'm trying to say is

506
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,720
I think it's an opportunity

507
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,920
for growth for the dog
training industry to embrace this

508
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,040
and to get some knowledge,
some real hands on knowledge with raising

509
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,400
a lot of puppies, either through fostering
or breeding and offering that service.

510
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,000
That's the trainer
that's going to be really in demand.

511
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,040
That's what we need.

512
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,560
As I mentioned,
there's the geographic thing.

513
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,400
I can't place puppies further away
than I can get my hands on them.

514
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,880
But then you've also got people
that don't have the breeder support

515
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,640
and then you have breeders
that frankly breed a lot,

516
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,080
which is okay
because somebody has to breed the puppies.

517
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,960
I hope everybody realizes puppies don't
grow on trees, somebody has to breed them,

518
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,920
and people who breed them
professionally often can devote

519
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,000
more time to them and do a better job
than people who breed them as a hobby.

520
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,440
That's another podcast.

521
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,680
But when you're breeding a lot, it becomes
a lot to handle all the puppy owners.

522
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,960
And I know the people
that I know that breed a lot.

523
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,560
It is more than a full time job,

524
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,480
just counseling puppy owners.

525
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,400
To have a class of professionals
that for hire that were really good,

526
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,880
that were professional,
that could offer this service

527
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,240
would be amazing
and a huge benefit to our dog community.

528
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,120
So yeah, that was a hot topic.

529
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,200
If you have more to say about it, be sure
and write in either on the show page

530
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,080
or feel free to join the Puppy Culture
Discussion group on Facebook.

531
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,240
If you like this podcast,
you'll love our breeder

532
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,520
course at madcapuniversity.com.

533
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,800
Puppy Owners, we have a course for you
to at madcapuniversity.com.

534
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,880
If you think you have an impossible dog,

535
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,080
check out our dog training book
When Pigs Fly!

536
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,720
Training Success with Impossible Dogs

537
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,520
available at puppyculture.com.

538
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,120
Well that's it for this time.

539
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,680
Thanks for listening.

540
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:46,320
Bye bye.