274 | Room Wrecking, Risk-Taking, and Sensory-Seeking: What's Behind the Play?

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I'm answering a question from Danielle in Georgia.

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Danielle has emailed before and I actually had the

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pleasure of meeting her at the Atlanta meetup.

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Couple of months ago,

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so good to hear from you again,

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Danielle.

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And this is about

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a child's play specifically

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and what's going on in a play session and trying to kind of unpack it in light of

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presenting concerns and history,

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just kind of trying to

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make sense of what's going on.

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Now,

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my,

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my disclaimer before we dive into this before I read parts of the email.

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I we do not always have to understand what the child is playing,

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why they're playing it

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we don't have to be able to recognize themes we don't have to identify symbolic

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play we don't even need to know the history and the background of the child

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and Landreth actually talks about how that can convolute the process.

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So sometimes it is more helpful for us not to know what is going on,

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not to know the history,

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because then we make leaps and connections that aren't actually there.

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So with all that said,

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I'm gonna read parts of Danielle's email.

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We'll dive into this is a little bit of a case consult,

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I guess,

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but let's be really clear.

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We do not need to know why we do not need to connect play to

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experience.

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We do not need to be able to recognize themes.

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CCPT works

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when we are CCPT.

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And

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we don't have to take it any further than adherence to the model.

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The child knows what he needs to work on.

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We stay out of his way,

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we remain adherent

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and he will work through the things that he needs to,

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but I still think it'll be helpful to kind of unpack this together.

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So thank you so much for the email,

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Danielle

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and.

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So actually,

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I'm gonna tell you a story really quickly,

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so when I was at the meetup,

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she said to me.

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You talk fast in real life,

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but I always set your speed

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to 1.5 or 1.75 or 2.

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I don't remember what number she told me,

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but

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I always set

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the speed on the podcast episodes faster.

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So I feel like you're talking so slowly right now.

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And so many people tell me that they put me on a higher speed.

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Which is crazy.

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I guess y'all can be grateful that I have a low speaking voice because

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if I had a high speaking voice and then you made me faster,

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I think I would just squeak.

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So

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I'm glad that I have the tone of voice that allows you to speed me

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up and I don't sound as much like a chipmunk as I think I would.

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Anyway,

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so she says in her email,

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I can confirm you do not talk as fast as I have your podcast speed set to.

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So,

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I'm so glad that you all are able to binge listen by speeding me up and you can

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get like 2 in the same amount of time as 1 if you don't speed me up.

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So,

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I'm glad technology allows you to binge listen the way that you all do.

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OK.

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So she says,

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I want to take a moment to say how grateful I am

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that you recently covered room wrecking in one of your episodes.

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I've been working with a child and your strategy to

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help kids get unstuck has already been so helpful,

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but I have a few deeper questions.

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So,

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this child is 6,

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his father passed away.

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He in 8 to 10 or so sessions has room wrecked,

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scattering them across the room,

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and

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she implemented the,

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he's been stuck,

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so he's going if he chooses to room wreck,

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he chooses to help clean up,

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and she said he does room wreck,

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but he will help me clean up.

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He often tests his own abilities.

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And sometimes limits are put into place for those.

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He

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initially struggled with limits,

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but now typically abides when limits are set.

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That's huge.

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And then sensory seeking,

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he rubs sand all over himself,

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seems calm when doing so,

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and bounces on the ball,

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yoga ball,

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big exercise ball,

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and then teachers report no aggressive or destructive behaviors,

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but have seen withdrawal and disinterest.

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OK,

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so question,

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with the complexity of his grief and strong attachment to his dad,

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what do you make of his sensory seeking,

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risk taking,

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and room wrecking behaviors?

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I adhere to CCPT principles.

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He seems to have formed a healthy attachment with me.

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I never feel in danger or threatened by his behaviors.

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It's almost eerie because I feel like I should at times,

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but I'm just in it with him,

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feeling as if I know this is the best place for him to show these behaviors.

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I would love any insights you have on these,

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how these behaviors may relate to his trauma and grief processing.

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OK.

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So,

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I think it would be more helpful to not think of

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this in terms of how this relates relates to his grief

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and and trauma.

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I think we need to just look at the behaviors one

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at a time and just identify what's likely at the root.

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So

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room wrecking,

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we know that that is usually rooted in

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I need to externalize and show outwardly what's going on inwardly

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and my internal state is so chaotic and messy

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that I need to create that in

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the playroom.

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Now,

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in

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less frequent cases,

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it's highly anxious kids and they're so tightly wound that

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they just finally have to let it all out.

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So they will room wreck like once

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as a release.

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This child 8 to 10 sessions in a row.

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I suspect that is

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demonstration of what's going on inside.

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When kids room wreck,

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it is an outward expression of what's going on internally more often than not.

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This is how chaotic and messy and overwhelming I feel,

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so I'm trying to represent that in the playroom.

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That makes sense.

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He's 6,

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he's young,

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his father died at 5.

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He is trying to deal with.

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A new reality,

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a new normal,

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and yes,

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grief and loss and trauma and all of these things.

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So I think that is

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likely why he's room wrecking

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the fact that he

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initially struggled with responding to limits but now abides when limits are set,

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that's evidence of self control.

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That's evidence of self regulation.

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That is a huge moment.

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When a child is finally able to comply,

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it shows that they are in fact able

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to

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be aware of their behavior and regulate accordingly.

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That's a huge

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win

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in the playroom.

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OK,

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risk taking play.

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Almost always,

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and I'm going out on a limb here,

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Danielle,

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because you didn't say this,

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but it seems as though associated with a lot

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of what you're saying is high levels of anxiety,

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and that would

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make a whole lot of sense because when

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a child's world feels completely out of control

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and completely powerless,

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it almost always

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emerges in huge levels of anxiety.

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Because when you are 5 years old and something

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overwhelming like a death of a parent takes place.

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Your brain starts going,

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what else could happen?

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What if this?

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Oh no,

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this could be so bad.

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What if this happened?

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What,

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what would it mean if this?

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Now all of a sudden you're spiraling with huge levels of anxiety,

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especially if you don't have an emotional vocabulary.

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So I suspect that he probably is highly anxious.

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And when you see risk taking,

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I typically categorize that as fear facing play.

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But when you see risk-taking behavior,

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standing on chairs,

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jumping over obstacles,

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tasting markers and glue,

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poking himself with pipe cleaners.

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OK.

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First of all,

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you said,

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all of which

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limits are put in place and sometimes those items

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are removed if he continues to test those limits.

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Let me unpack that for a second.

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Standing on chairs,

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I personally would never set a limit on a child standing on a chair.

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Jumping over obstacles,

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I would never set a limit on jumping over obstacles,

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unless it was from

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5 ft in the air,

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and there's actually a concern of him getting hurt.

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Tasting markers and glue,

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I would probably vary pseudo limits at that,

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like,

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oh,

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you're touching your tongue to that,

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but you know glue isn't for putting in your mouth,

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and I would just leave it there,

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unless the child continues to persist.

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Poking himself with art tools unless he's poking

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himself hard enough that he's actually getting injured.

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Like if it's scratching or drawing blood,

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then sure,

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absolutely.

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But Danielle,

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what you're describing,

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I would not set limits on any of that

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fully.

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I would pseudo limit the glue,

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but the rest of it,

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I would just say,

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oh,

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you're choosing to stand on the chair.

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Oh,

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you decided to jump over that obstacle.

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So

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I'm not sure if this is truly dangerous enough to if it is,

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then you're absolutely adherent in setting the limit.

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You have to be safe,

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he has to be safe.

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Things can't be damaged or broken.

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So

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if he is doing something that is dangerous and his safety is a concern,

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yes,

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limit set.

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I'm not sure that I would without more context,

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so I just wanted to throw that out there.

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But

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often kids who are highly anxious,

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they need to face their fears.

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So,

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if standing on a chair

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is scary to him,

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even if he doesn't want to admit it,

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if jumping over obstacles is scary to him even though he doesn't want to admit it.

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There are elements of I'm trying to conquer some of this anxiety.

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You also sometimes just have just regulated behavior

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and they just can't control.

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They don't even realize that what they're doing is out of control.

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It's just

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their expression of how they feel.

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So it could be maybe both,

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could be some fear facing and just

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I have no control over this,

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and so I'm just doing whatever on a whim comes into my brain.

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Either way,

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I don't know that that requires limits unless

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it meets criteria that we already discussed.

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And then the sensory seeking,

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that sounds to me

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bouncing on the ball and rubbing sand,

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that sounds like self soothing.

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Again,

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comorbid with high levels of anxiety.

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So we will often see kids do self soothing ritualistic kind of repetitive play

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like that,

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especially sensory,

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because it's calming,

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it's grounding,

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it's stabilizing,

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and it's soothing.

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So I suspect that is related to calming down the big feelings,

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specifically the worry and anxiety.

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And then

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no aggressive or destructive behaviors at school,

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but withdrawal and disinterest in school work.

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Well,

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remember,

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the brain has a hierarchy

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and

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it can only attend to so much at once.

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So when we have grief and loss,

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as well as therapy,

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there's no way this child has bandwidth to do math.

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And school and interest in school and completion of homework is almost

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always the first sign that a child does not have the capacity

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to attend to that right now.

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When kids are emotionally overwhelmed,

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when they're mentally overwhelmed,

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when they're psychologically overwhelmed,

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when they're socially overwhelmed,

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relationally overwhelmed,

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you name it,

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school is almost always the first fallout.

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Because let's face it,

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if you're dealing with

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the grief of losing your dad,

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do you really want to sit down and do spelling work?

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If you're right in the middle of your junk and play therapy,

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00:11:32,530 --> 00:11:34,190
do you really have the bandwidth

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00:11:34,409 --> 00:11:36,320
to want to study for your

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00:11:36,969 --> 00:11:37,869
geography test?

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00:11:38,619 --> 00:11:38,820
There,

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00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:42,770
there's just a prioritization of mental capacity.

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00:11:43,020 --> 00:11:44,219
Kids are not cognitive,

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00:11:44,299 --> 00:11:45,340
they're not rational.

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00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:48,289
They're not going to process things intellectually.

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00:11:48,619 --> 00:11:50,330
Math requires all of that.

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00:11:50,859 --> 00:11:51,390
So

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00:11:51,739 --> 00:11:53,530
emotions are always going to trump that.

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00:11:54,020 --> 00:11:56,210
He's able to regulate in the school environment,

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but he doesn't really wanna do school,

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00:11:58,580 --> 00:12:00,900
and that's understandable based on everything that's

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00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:02,900
going on emotionally and psychologically for him.

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00:12:04,219 --> 00:12:04,849
So Danielle,

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00:12:04,929 --> 00:12:06,169
thank you so much for your question.

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00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:08,799
I hope that that's helpful to everyone and

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you know we have these cases where

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we know what's going on

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00:12:13,450 --> 00:12:17,840
history wise we know the experiences that have brought the child to the playroom

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00:12:18,330 --> 00:12:21,770
and sometimes we're trying to figure out how things tie together,

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00:12:21,859 --> 00:12:23,760
but I often find it's more helpful

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00:12:24,049 --> 00:12:25,960
to just look at root cause of the behavior,

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00:12:26,210 --> 00:12:27,960
not it's tied to this,

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00:12:28,169 --> 00:12:28,640
but

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00:12:28,890 --> 00:12:29,159
well,

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00:12:29,250 --> 00:12:32,840
this behavior is almost always associated with this issue.

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00:12:33,429 --> 00:12:35,780
And so that is usually the way that you can kind

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00:12:35,780 --> 00:12:38,929
of get around the unknown of making some of those connections.

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00:12:39,739 --> 00:12:39,940
All right,

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y'all.

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I love you.

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Thanks for hanging out with me.

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We'll talk again soon.

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Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

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Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.