Jim Bowden: Trade market update, Mets replace Pete, Phillies outfield

00:00:10
Speaker 1: It was so long overdue, and I got to see the great my buddy Jim Bowden, our resident GM here on FT And now we're back in our normal spots. But the winter meetings are over, and you should definitely check out the takeaways from JB in the Athletic. But Jim, good to see you, and I want to start with a bang here. Where do you think we're at in terms of the trade market? I know you did many, you know, little updates within your notes column about the winter meetings, But where do you think we're at? Like where are a few names that you think could actually like this really could happen in the few names that you're seeing circulating where you're like, don't count on yes.

00:00:43
Speaker 2: So I think the interesting thing is like all the GM's were telling me that there was more trade talks at this Winter meetings than any Winter meetings they could remember. Like that's how involved these guys were, like all thirty teams. So yeah, there's a lot of talk going on between these gms. I mean I think that you know, I said I thought i'd get done during the winter meetings. Brendan Donovan of the Cardinals, the number one trade asset the high end Bloom has. Katie Wu reported, who has been on this show, does a great job. She's now the beat writer for the Athletic for the Dodgers, but she wrote that the Mariners and the Giants right now are the front runners for Donovan. There are a lot of teams in on Brendan Donovan. Obviously, this is a gold glove infielder, can play second, third, left, he gets on base at a thirty five percent clip.

00:01:32
Speaker 3: And there's a really good fit with Seattle.

00:01:33
Speaker 2: The Mariners have the farm system, they have the pieces that him Bloom needs. So I kind of am viewing that as maybe the next shoe to drop. But look, there are so many discussions out there about so many players, and it's all real, like it's all been confirmed, I mean. And the thing that I really found interesting more than anything else is teams literally are listening on everybody. Like it's not like the olden days where they would just you know, say yeah, we'll take or whatever. They're really listening on star players. Like very few teams had any quote unquote untouchables at this point. So, yeah, it's been a lot of fun now, you know, obviously it's intermingled with the free agent class. So sometimes some of the free agents have to sign or some of the players have to be traded for the other moves to make. But I think we're gonna have a busy week before the Christmas holiday.

00:02:23
Speaker 4: Okay, what are they waiting on?

00:02:24
Speaker 5: Jim?

00:02:25
Speaker 4: Like, they were all in the same room. They were all in the same hote well kind of sort of in the same hotel. Some of them had to walk down a long hallway to get you know, and they had to pass our show and say hi to Scott and I. But they're all in the same room, in the same area. What are what are they waiting for to make these trades? To see if someone comes along that they hadn't talked to, maybe a thirty first or a thirty second team, and say, hey, we got a better offer for you. What what are they waiting for? Let's let's have these deals happen now.

00:02:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think you just want to make sure you get the best deal you can. You know, it's just like you know, sometimes talk about the free agent market for a minute. Dylan see gets the seven years, two hundred and ten million, and now farmber Valdez and Ranger Suarez find out they're not getting that deal. So then they look at the market and they see what they're being offered, and then you know, they kind of got to decide, am I willing to take the best offer that's on the market, or should I consider doing a shorter term deal with an opt out and go back in the market next year or the year after. What are my options? And then a lot of cases, it's the dominoes, right. It's like, you know, once Michael King picks between the Red Sox, Oriols and Yankees, then you know, if he picks the Oriols, then they're probably out on Valdez and Suarez. And so a lot of these players end up being connected. And whether it be trades or free agents, everybody has that whiteboard in their.

00:03:47
Speaker 3: Office where they've got their order of.

00:03:50
Speaker 2: What they want to do one to twelve, and a lot of times, I'm not going to go to number two unless I know I can't get number one. So a lot of times they're just connected. So you know, it takes patience, and all of a sudden, someone's gonna wake up and they're going to want to pull the trigger. And whether that be a GM or a manager that gives you that extra year, or whether that's the team that's willing to throw in that last prospect to get a deal done. You know a lot of times it just takes that last minute movement. And I think you'll find that later in.

00:04:17
Speaker 5: The weeks as this new CBA is coming up. Do the players need to make sure there's some kind of trade deadline for the offseason so you're not hurting free agent players' values because you spend six years become a free agent, and now teams are looking at the whiteboard and they're going, well, I can't get Dylan See, so I want Trek Scooble, I want Sandy al Contra, I want Eduar Cabrera, and then I want Zach Allen and then I want so is that something that the players should do to increase free agent's values.

00:04:52
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I don't think there's any doubt, And I got a big kickout of agents at the Winter meetings that we're throwing the idea of, hey, we should have it the summer tenth trade devil.

00:05:00
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:05:01
Speaker 2: Sure, if I'm an agent or a player, I want a trade deadline because if I can, if I can freeze the trade market from December tenth to March tenth. Then only way teams can improve is to get out their checkbooks and bid on free agents. You want to get better, You had your chance to make trades, you didn't do it. Now you have to bid for us, and the bidding would go up. So of course you're gonna want that. From the club side is a former GM. I don't want that trade deadline. And if we're gonna have a deadline, it's got to be a free agent and a trade deadline at the same time. You gotta put the players in that same class. And obviously that's.

00:05:37
Speaker 3: Not gonna fly.

00:05:38
Speaker 2: And now, since I'm wearing the broadcast hat with UAJ and Eric and Scott, since we are wearing that hat, there's nothing wrong with this dragging on through January.

00:05:49
Speaker 3: January would be really boring if.

00:05:51
Speaker 2: We got all the trades and free agents done in December and our jobs. So I'm okay, let it keep going in our jobs. I'm fine with it. Let's have two or three a week.

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00:07:01
Speaker 4: All right, Jim, enough of the trades because they just always seem to take forever. There was a free agent sign that happened this past weekend and we've discussed for a long time. Or hey, Polonko to the Mets. Why do the Mets make this move? And where is he going to play? And what's his role going to be? Because they seem like they have a third basement, they seem like they have a short stop, they seem like they have a second baseman. Vento's is a player who they want to have dh R first base. So where does Polanco fit in on this team? I just don't understand what this move does to help them just and other than just muddy the waters for Carlos.

00:07:34
Speaker 3: Mendoza makes no sense to me.

00:07:37
Speaker 2: And I know what they said was primarily first base in dh he has played exactly one inning of one game at first base in his major league career. That's right, one inning of one game. And then I heard David Stearns made a comment saying, well, you can easily go over there and play first Really, have you asked that the Bryce Harper or to William Contreras or anybody else? Do you not understand the defensive value at first base on how they save the third baseman, the shortstop, and the second basement. But to make matters worse, why did you not make an offer to Pee Alonzo? Supposedly because you weren't sure, how he's gonna age and you don't like him defensively at first base?

00:08:15
Speaker 3: Wait?

00:08:16
Speaker 2: What, but you like Polanco at first base? Who's played one inning of one game over there? And by the way, Peter Alonzo is elite at scooping and picks, he's elite at it.

00:08:27
Speaker 3: How how many errors.

00:08:28
Speaker 2: Does he saved the third basement, shortstop and second baseman over the years in New York? Sure he lets runs in. Sure he has a lack of range, I get it. He also drives in one hundred and twenty five, So if he lets in fifteen or twenty, he more than makes up for it. So now you're worried about agent decline. Did they realize that Polanco's gonna be thirty three this summer at the All Star Game? Do they realize he's going to be thirty four the next year? Peter Alonzo's thirty one. So you don't want to pay Alonzo thirty one to thirty five, But you're willing to pay Polanco thirty three to thirty four.

00:09:01
Speaker 3: At twenty million per year? Are you kidding me? It makes zero?

00:09:05
Speaker 2: Saen saying, look, I like Planco. Don't get me wrong, He's a good player. His knees are healthy. I get it, but let's be realistic. You got rid of a forty home run bat for a twenty home run bat. You got rid of one hundred and twenty RBIs for seventy RBIs. That's what you did. Your off that's just downgraded. And now with one Soto, why pitch to one Soto? You're paying him seven hundred and sixty five millions so opposing teams can walk them one hundred and fifty times. This year, you got rid of the lineup protector for one Sodo because now you have Horri Blanco.

00:09:37
Speaker 3: As your dh ugh head scratcher.

00:09:41
Speaker 5: What did they do to this clubhouse? You've talked about production. What have they done to this clubhouse?

00:09:48
Speaker 3: Eric, you nailed it. You know it.

00:09:51
Speaker 2: I went to Mets KP last year and I came back and on my MLB Network radio show, I said, the Mets clubhouse is a lead. I don't know if they have enough starting pitching to win, but the clubhouse is elite.

00:10:02
Speaker 3: And I mentioned five players. Five players.

00:10:06
Speaker 2: I mentioned Brandon, Emo, Pete, Alonzo, Diaz, Lindner, and Sodo. Those five guys stood out when I thought about good culture in the Mets clubhouse.

00:10:16
Speaker 3: It was those five.

00:10:18
Speaker 2: Now Nemo, Alonzo, Diaz are gone and everything we're learning and I do not have first in information, is that there was some kind of rift between Sodo and Lindner. I'm not confirming it. All I'm saying is what baseball people have told me. Right or wrong, I don't know. But what in the world have you done to that culture?

00:10:36
Speaker 3: Now?

00:10:37
Speaker 2: Granted bringing in Brandon Simeon, he's a good makeup guy too, but he's thirty five years old.

00:10:41
Speaker 3: In decline, so you know, I'm just not sure I get what they're doing.

00:10:46
Speaker 2: They're getting older, and they're replacing an elite closer in Diaz with Devin Williams, who struggled the first half of the year last year. We're replacing Alonzo with Polonco. Like I just don't What we're doing is we're trying to win like we want in Milwaukee, and winning in Milwaukee works in a small market. This is a different job in New York. There's different pressures on players in New York.

00:11:10
Speaker 3: You guys both.

00:11:11
Speaker 2: Played You totally understand what I'm talking about. And you're gonna sit there and try to build a Milwaukee team in New York. I promise you not gonna work.

00:11:19
Speaker 4: Okay, Jim, you answer my question. Is this David Sterns trying to be too cute? Is this David Sterns reaction the Polancos signing? We lost the Loons, that we lost years, Let's make the Mets fans happy by signing somebody they've heard of because of the postseason. And he was pretty good and had a nice year. Right, So is this David Sterns just trying Well, you just said he's trying to do it the way Milwaukee the way instead of just having the money and going out and getting the best players.

00:11:44
Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:11:45
Speaker 2: And I've said this before. Being a GM in Milwaukee is different than being a gym in New York. Look, I got to work for the Yankees, I got to work for the Reds. I understand the difference. In the markets, It's a totally different job. The job that Brian Cash and David Sterens and Andrew Freeman have now is completely different than running a smaller mid market team. It only took Andrew Freeman, though, a year to figure that out. I don't think David Stearns has figured that out yet. He will, But you know why, New York teams have superstars. You know why they pay the big money for superstars because superstars give you production predictability at a high rate.

00:12:24
Speaker 3: You want to go all young. You could pull it off on a small market. I did. You can do it. It can work.

00:12:29
Speaker 2: You want to try to do that in New York, No thanks. And look, I believe in Nolan MacLean. I think he's the best starting pitcher they have. And I believe in Carson Benge. I think he's the answer in center field. I even think je Williams can be a good player. But if you think you're gonna win in New York with young players alone, it's not gonna happen.

00:12:49
Speaker 3: It's just not.

00:12:50
Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, so I don't get what they're doing. And look, they have time to pivot. David Stearns can shut me up tomorrow, go to a podium and announce you've signed Kyle Tucker, Boba Schett and Michael King, and I will absolutely put my tail between the legs and tell everyone what a star I think he is, like I did when.

00:13:08
Speaker 3: He ran the Milwaukee Brewers. But it's hard to like what.

00:13:11
Speaker 2: He's doing right now in Queens. It's hard to like it or understand.

00:13:15
Speaker 5: It because they're a big market. And you mentioned the fact that the Dodgers have outclassed the big markets, not even just the league, they've outspent the market. A team that's in the NL East with the Mets. Is the Phillies a big market, A team that's not afraid to spend. With their recent Adolis Garcia signing, obviously, nic Castianos could be most likely on the way out. Do you see him move like obviously any catching, but do you see the move like the Phillies that could move them back into the Dodger conversation in the sense that we're pushing all in, say like an Alex Bregman, who was rumored to have visited Philadelphia.

00:13:58
Speaker 2: I mean, I think Bregman's a difference maker out look in terms of the Dodgers. They're not in a large market. They're in a massive market, right. The Los Angeles Dodgers CBT tax this past year was more money than sixteen teams major league payrolls just the tax alone. They're in a whole different planet. They've got a better farm system than anybody else. They spend more money in analytics, technology and scouting than anyone else. And they have one of the smartest executives running them, and Andrew Friedman, who knows what he's doing, and believe it or not, doesn't overspend for talent. He really doesn't. He just has great resources can do what he wants. And by the way, o Tani's seven hundred millions already paid for. They're just printing money at a ridiculous level. So the Dodgers really are at a spot where I don't want to compare them to anybody else. And by the way, you know, the Brewers won more games in the regular season than they did, so they can still be beat. But I think in terms of the Phillies, do I think a Bregman or a Baschett signing to play third base is a difference maker for them?

00:14:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure I do.

00:14:59
Speaker 2: If they can go get a left fielder, if they can go get Bellinger and Bregman, sure. I mean, look, they've got the starting pitching, they've got the reliever, they've got the manager, they've got the player leadership in Schwarber and Harper, you know, and you.

00:15:12
Speaker 3: Mentioned Adolis Garcia.

00:15:13
Speaker 2: Look he's been in decline, but he's thirty two years old, right, He's been in Texas a long time. He's still a good defender, he still has a good arm, he still has power. Now, the question that I have is he's got Kevin Long now. Can Kevin Long get him back on track? Can Kyle Schwarber and Bryce Harper help him get back on track? He's only thirty two, He's a relatively smart guy, and he finally has an elite hitting coach. He finally has elite teammates that know how to help guys. You know, could he be a comeback player for ten million dollars next year?

00:15:43
Speaker 1: Maybe?

00:15:44
Speaker 2: I mean it didn't look like it. It looks like he's in decline. But I kind of like the fit. I like the chance. And to your point, yeah, Dick Costianos needs to be released. They need to move on for him. And yes, they'll be spending thirty million between Garcia and Costianos this coming season.

00:16:00
Speaker 4: All right, I gotta go back to the Dodgers and what you said about the Dodgers. How much did you say they spent more money in the luxury tax and some team's payroll.

00:16:08
Speaker 2: Or sixteen teams payroll? Theirs cbtwo tacks this year is more money than sixteen teams major league payrolls.

00:16:16
Speaker 4: Yes, Okay, do you think the owners care? Because you know what they have, Jim. They have back to back World Series Championship rings and they have the money. So I always say that if you win a World Series, and god forbid you win too in a row, all that money goes out the window because you're making so much money off Showway, so much money off Yamamodo, so much money on Mookie Bet, so much money off Freddie Freeman that they don't care. That's the thing that I don't know that owners understand is that if you actually win, and you actually win a World Series, it makes it all worth it. I don't care what you have to spend. Now, it's easier said than done to win that World Series. But that money, I know. That's an amazing stat we just threw out there. Dodgers fans, Dodgers' owners, nobody who associated with the Rodgers gives two craps about how much money they spend because they have two rings.

00:17:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they have the revenue to do it though, too. They're making money, they're printing it.

00:17:09
Speaker 4: They got to know they're not They're not as making Jim didn't you hear hal Stein run the other day. They're not making as much as you think they're making. Okay, it's all.

00:17:17
Speaker 2: The Mets aren't, but the Dodgers are. They absolutely are printing way more money than anybody else. The New York teams aren't even in the same ballpark. And they're being run by guys that really know what they're doing, and they care about humans and character and makeup, and they only bring in good people, that's what they do, and talent. And yes, yes they'll spend to the highest paid players, but when they spend, they don't spend more than what the.

00:17:42
Speaker 3: Market is for these guys. Even the manager Dave Roberts, yes.

00:17:45
Speaker 2: He's being paid a little more than Craig Council, not much more enough to make him the highest paid, which he should be on his way to the Hall of Fame. But you know, I say this because I know pirate fans, for example, they'll get upset and go it's not fair. I mean, you know, the bottom fifteen markets have not won a World Series in a decade. Yeah, I get it, But I tell people, as fans, you don't have to be a pirate fan.

00:18:08
Speaker 3: You can retire as a Pirate.

00:18:10
Speaker 2: Fan, or trade yourself to the Dodgers if you want to see your team win. Right now, the Dodgers got the best chance to win a World Series again this year.

00:18:19
Speaker 3: So if you want to win as a fan, you can go to any team you want.

00:18:23
Speaker 2: You don't have to roof for the team that's your home city, and you can see the Dodgers come play in your home city. They'll come into Pittsburgh and beat you. So look, if it bothers you that much, just become a Dodger fan.

00:18:33
Speaker 1: It's fine.

00:18:35
Speaker 3: Hey, JB.

00:18:37
Speaker 1: I want to go on the opposite end of the spectrum here with the conversation. So I've been going back and forth with some fans online, which is, you know, always a good move about the Pirates. Okay, we spoke about them during the winter meetings and how it was cute that they sent out an offer that was actually below what most did, and there's fans online like, hey, give them credit. You know, they made an offer, might have related to ownership or front off of something like that. Even Ken on our show was like, hey, you know that was real. That was something for them to show the market that they have some cash to spend. I think you're on the other side of this. I'm on the other side of this, so I'll let you cook. But then also get me to the finish line of what they're actually going to do and not just whisper in a free agent's ear and say, hey, we're twenty million under, but we're gonna report that we sent this out.

00:19:23
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I mean, look, Scott, their offers to both Josh Naylor and Kyle Schwarberg were under what they signed for. Now, keep in mind, if you're a small market team and you're trying to get a free agent, you are never gonna get a free agent at the same price the contending team's gonna get them for. If you're a player and you had a choice between signing back with the Phillies or signing with Pittsburgh, what is Kyle Schwarber gonna do? Right, I mean it's pretty easy what he's gonna do. I'm gonna go back to Philadelphia. I'm comfortable there, I've won there. We're a contending team.

00:19:57
Speaker 3: You're not.

00:19:58
Speaker 2: So how do you in a small mark get a player you offer more years and more money and buy a lot. How did the Nationals get Jason Worth? They overpaid him more years, more money to the ridiculous number. Jason Worth left Philadelphia go to Washington. Right, how in the world did the Tigers end up getting Magleiardonius and pad Rodriguez. They overpaid for them back then, and by the way, both of those teams ended up going to.

00:20:24
Speaker 3: The World Series. You have to have players.

00:20:26
Speaker 2: But in a small market, if you want Josh Naylor, you can't offer what Seattle's offering.

00:20:31
Speaker 3: You have to offer more.

00:20:33
Speaker 2: You want Kyle Schwarber, you should have offered seven years, two hundred and ten million in overpay. Would it have ended well, no, But that's how you get on the map. And once you get one, once you get two, now all of a sudden, you start to win and people will follow. The funny part about the Pirates is they have a starting rotation that can get them to be competitive in that division. They actually could be a contender if they can get offense. But if you want to do it, you've got to make offers bigger than what the market is and not even close. All right, now, what can they do because that's much more constructive. Ryan O'Hearn you Hennio Suarez two examples, two bats add some offense, fifty home runs to the lineup, try to win, you know, with your pitching and defense. Let Connor Griffin make this team an opening day, Let him be in the run for Rookie of the Year and let him light everything up. But yeah, look, if you're not going to get the big boys, which it's tough to do, right It's tough to get the top free agents to go to Pittsburgh right now, you're not good enough.

00:21:33
Speaker 3: You're just not.

00:21:34
Speaker 2: But that being said, that next tier or the tier after that, you could certainly improve the offense of this team. We know they can pitch, so let's get some bats. I think o'hearnan Suarez are two realistic guys they could get in free agency right now, which would improve their chances of contending.

00:21:53
Speaker 4: Okay, before I let you go, I have your remiss since I'm not going to see you before the college football playoffs start. Okay, you mentioned team peep fans switching teams. First of all, your son is the GM for USC. The one win you Notre Dame had this year was against USC. So as a USC fan and as a non Notre Dame fan, you should be on this show right now. Telling all these poor whiney baby Notre Dame fans that I know, ohoo, that they could switch their allegiance from Notre Dame to another school and most people would be happy for them, because then I wouldn't have to listen to all these Notre Dame people bitch and moan about how they got screwed out of the playoffs when the two teams they played all year that were in the playoffs they lost to, and USC is the one team they claim to beat. So here's your chance to tell all those Notre Dame fans to come on over to USC.

00:22:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, every Notre Dame fan, you should come to USC. I'm a big Marcus Freeman fan. I love him. I think Notre Dame should align themselves with a conference. I think being independent hurts them. I understand the tradition, but I think you got to get in one of these conferences. Is I do think you guys got screwed, but I think you all should become USC fans.

00:23:04
Speaker 3: I think AJ is absolutely right.

00:23:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll add on here, JB. They've been independent for years. The difference is they don't have a boden. They don't have a voting right now you know they're missing a boating. That's that's part of the yep.

00:23:18
Speaker 3: JB.

00:23:18
Speaker 1: Good to see you. We will talk to you.

00:23:21
Speaker 4: Yes, you too.

00:23:21
Speaker 1: Happy holidays, We will talk to you soon.

00:23:24
Speaker 5: Good