200th Anniversary Episode! A Look Forward & Back at Our Favorite Guests & Lessons Learned

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode two hundred. Yep. We have been at this for two hundred episodes back since we started in August of twenty seventeen, so it is now June of twenty twenty one. Sarah, did you think we'd go this long? I'm not sure I thought we'd go that long. I mean to me, when I heard other podcasts say it's their two hundredth episode, that sounded really, really long and established, and I guess we have been doing this for quite some time now. My sister showed me some graphic about like how we think about past years. It was really funny, like it's very nonlinear. And I guess twenty seventeen seems like it was like yesterday, but it was four years ago. It was it was a while ago. Two hundred episodes every week, every Tuesday since since we started coming out with this, lots of changes in our lives, changes in the world as a whole. It's been, you know, a long running podcast. Yeah. I can't say that I had a particular exit strategy either. When we started. I wasn't like, Okay, we're going to do X number, although in general with projects it's probably good to always say, like, okay, I'm going to commit to let's say, twenty episodes if somebody is thinking of starting a podcast, and then can evaluate at that point and say, okay, you know, is it working for me? Is it not working for me? But we've had a number of conversations over the years of like is this sustainable? How can we make it sustainable? Yeah, And really some of that came from more from me, I think, because at one point the hours just seemed to add up, and I started to do a little bit of mental math in my head about like, well, not working and you know, this is kind of a lot of time, and that is actually what kind of pushed us forward to finding an ad network and having this project be at least a little bit more than cost neutral for us, which is great. Yeah. Yeah, so we've made a lot of changes along the way. I mean we started back in the summer of twenty seventeen, Sarah posted on her blog that she was thinking of starting a podcast. And why had you been thinking this? I mean, you're busy at the time, you were expecting baby number three, I mean, what was the what was the thinking there? Well, the main thing was that I at the time had gotten into listening to a lot of podcasts, and so many of them, really the ones that were geared towards women tend to be geared towards stay at home mothers, which I had no problem with, but I felt a little bit left out, and having blogged for so many years, I felt like my voice and my perspective would be something to add. I've always enjoyed speaking. I've never been microphone shy, maybe a little bit camera shy. I don't love doing video, but audio is no problem. And so the idea was born. And once it, you know, it's one of those ideas where once it popped in my head. I was like, yes, like this this little spark, you know, I wasn't just gonna let go of it. And when you responded, it was like, oh my gosh, how perfect. Like a different perspective resources experience with speaking and another working woman, but with a very different kind of structure to her job. So I thought we'd make a really nice point in counterpoint that way. Yeah, and it's been fun. It's been been a lot of great episodes. I love listening to it. I mean, I'm the target market, I guess as are you, So I generally enjoy listening to it. We are still exploring various revenue models, so that may develop more over the next year or two as we try to figure out how to make this worth everyone's while. So where do you record? Tell our listeners your set up? Yeah, so Laura and I can see each other. By the way, while we're recording. The video does not get kept. We are usually in various states of dishevelment. Sometimes we're more put together, other times I'm in workout gear. It varies, but the actual location for the last year or so at least, I think, has been I have this mini office in my bedroom, which is actually where I used to do all my telehealth when I was seeing patients from home. I don't always work here when I'm home, but if the kids are home, it's kind of the only place I can stay far away from stuff and noise, so that is where I am, and generally I try to record at times when there's not a lot going on in our house, i e. No children are present. Yeah, me too, have only the dog in the house at the moment, and the dog may start barking, but thankfully does not seem to be a very barky sort of dog. I also record in my home office at the same place I record before breakfast, though on different equipment. Interestingly enough, and not for any particular reason of needing to. It's more that the recording equipment is set up for me as a solo recording. Like the sound is here in the studio, so if Sarah we're sitting here with me, we could both use that equipment, which would be nice because it's really good. But since we're not sitting here together, we have to have it coming in from different places, and so we have to use online recording software that can create local tracks from both of us, so it can still use a nice microphone, but it's not the same high quality recording when you're doing it through online software. So in case anyone was wondering why that is, I'm thinking of making an actual recording studio in my new office in the house. It has a closet that could be soundproofed quite easily and has enough space for me to sit in it, so that would be an obvious option for doing this going forward. So stay tuned. I may be recording from a closet in the future, but it'll be a great sounding podcast a great sounding closet. So prior to the episodes, we do have an outline. We have had various outlines and stages of organization, but I have to say I feel like this year we've sort of gotten it down better than ever previously, and I'm it only took four years. But we have like a shared document that we access on Google Drive where we can add our recording dates, any guest information. If an idea comes up where I'm like, ooh, this would be a good topic, sometimes I'll put it on there. And so usually that's like a couple of weeks ahead of real time, so we know what we're going to do and who we're going to have on and then we both come up with episode ideas. I feel like I come up with more and you're like, uh no, and then that one's good, and then no, but that's a good thing. I need an editor, and then we kind of good. It's just you know, you picked the best ones. It's good, it's best. And sometimes we turn things into an intro right that we're like, oh, yeah, I'm not sure if we've got thirty minutes of stuff to say on that, but we definitely have five, and so some topics have been used that way. I don't think I ever be like, no, we are not doing that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, And then usually I do the first round of like draft, and then Laura sends it back with all of her kind of ad ins. Although when we used to do guests together, Laura almost always wrote the questions because that was her journalistic expertise. Now that we split a lot of the guests up, which we found actually led leads to a better flowing interview as well as being more convenient, we tend to write our own questions for each guest that we have ourselves. Yeah, I love listening to Sarah's interviews. You would never know that she didn't do this before this podcast, and so it's it's great. Well, now I've had a lot of p I mean, that's the thing. I don't think I could have done that with episode one, but I spent a lot of episodes now listening to you do it. Of course listening to nine thousand other podcasts as well. I also really enjoy listening to yours because it's like, obviously, you know, sometimes I listen to our podcast, but the content is not going to be fresh if I have recorded it a week ago. But when you record with a guest, it's like brand new stuff. It's like a little present I get to open on when a episode comes out. Yeah. Now I love listening to the ones that are Sarah, and I'm like, oh, I'm listening to it just as our guests are listening to it. I mean not our guests are, our listeners are listening to it, and it's it's kind of exciting, and so enjoy that. And then just to complete the phase of how we do this, once we've recorded our tracks, and depending on how well our software is working or not, that can be more argeous or not, we put it together in an email and send it to our production team. We do not do the sound part or the splicing together of try I think if we did, this podcast would have lasted about three episodes instead of two hundred. And then that team puts it together and they work with the ad people in the ad any of the advertisements that go in there, and then it gets launched. So it's pretty seaman We reasonably seamless most of the time, reasonably seamless, and we find our guests. We've been sort of doing one to two guest episodes a month at this point. Sarah tends to take one. I take one, although we sometimes stack up unevenly from months to months, depending on who is more oriented toward each guest, or who found them, or who's got more going on in the rest of their life. And most of them do come from people pitching themselves a lot of times. That is how we get our guests. So if you are listening to this and think I would make a great Best of both worlds guests, you are absolutely welcome to contact us and tell us why you'd be a great guest. We are always looking for good stories in general. If there's a good angle, if you think about what the headline on your interview could be. That's some lesson that's helpful for other people who are listening to this, Maybe something that's a little counterintuitive, that's very practical. That those are all good things because we're trying to be of service, and so a job title in and of itself is not a story. You know, though, we're trying to get people from all sorts of different backgrounds. But if you can take that and turn it into something that's helpful for other people that they'd like to listen to, that's of course always useful for us. Some is pitched by PR people. Definitely when we're had some bigger name guests, we've also reached out to their teams to get them on. So that's how we get people. I'm going to say something slightly controversial or juicy, which is that I feel like I'm less likely to invite someone to be a guest if they're a pitched by a PR person, but they're not a name I've heard, So I'm like, this isn't you know, it's not like Oprah, Like it's like some person and b if the premise is have this mom afore on she's figured everything out and wants I don't know, like some sort of generic thing. I feel like perhaps if that person had contacted me herself and shared her story, I would find it somewhat compelling. But when it's really shiny and packaged, that's a little bit of a turn off for me in particular. So we've had I think fewer and fewer of those where we've bitten. So if you're listening, it's probably better to unless you're super like Oprah, like I mean, although if Oprah emails us herself, I'll be happy about it. Yeah, but I would take Oprah from like her prs prs PR person. Yes, well maybe someday, maybe someday. All right, let's take a quick break and then we can come back with our dream guests. Okay, we are back. I came up with my dream guests, which I will share. Laura, did you come up with your yet? Maybe by the end of the episode. Okay, Well, if anybody's been listening recently, I think this name has come up about a thousand times. So Angela Duckworth is my current dream guest, and I'm going to try to make that dream of reality. So we'll move toward that. My reach dream guest is Michelle Obama, because you have to have a stretch goal in life. So good this would make great episodes, both of them. We'll work on that. So, looking back over the last two hundred episodes, I think this is going to be slightly more weighted to the last one hundred because I think we did a hundredth episode roundup at some point too. What's kind of your top moments of podcasting in general? Yeah, so I when we get an email and this happens, I mean not like every day, but you know, every few weeks we'll get a heartfelt email from a listener that explains how our podcast has made a positive difference. Sometimes there's even a story like I decided to go for this job even though it wasn't sure, and now I'm super happy I did. That is so rewarding. It is so much fun. Laura and I, if they send it to one of us, we always share those with the other because it's it's so gratifying and fun to hear those stories. Absolutely. I also like the ones where people decided to have another baby. We've had a few of those too, so great. There are some best of both world's babies out there, But usually it's that people have been getting a lot of negative stories about whether it is possible to really put your foot on the gas with your career and grow your family, and some people, you know, it's challenging for all of us, and some people may decide that they wish to lean back for a while or opt out or whatever, or not have as many children as they initially thought they wanted for various reasons. And that's awesome. But it's also really cool when we get the letters of people who said, well, actually, it showed me that there are people doing X, Y and Z who have two kids, three kids, whatever it is, and so those are very fun too. All right, should we do our lower moments, there's always some there's always some. I mean, I will say I think that blogging and podcasting is more challenging in twenty twenty one than it was when we started for several reasons. I guess there's just I feel like there's a lot more divisiveness when I say something about my life or my experiences. I worry about hate mail more than I used to. Or maybe that's because I've gotten hate mail so I know to worry about it. But I don't know. COVID shaming is certainly alive and well, although I think I think starting to dissipate a little bit in some spheres. I feel like I learned from others whose lives are like mine and whose lives are not like mine. But then some of the negative feedback we get is like, this podcast sucks because their life is not like mine, and that hurts because well number one, honestly, leaving a mean review with one star is kind of like as a little bit of nastiness. I guess you could contact someone and give them feedback, but that's going to actually hurt our podcast, so it's not very nice, and I just don't think that's a great reason. We had a review recently which said I unsubscribed immediately after hearing that one thing neither of them do is routine cooking and cleaning. Well, I'm sorry that made you feel something so angry that you needed to flounce out and leave a low review. But if I did a lot of cooking and cleaning, then I couldn't do other things that make me happy. And why is that such a bad thing? So I guess I don't know it is. We welcome feedback, but we are humans. I felt that Laura's tall that side, and I haven't pleasantly surprised. Often when I receive feedback and I write back, we can often have a kind exchange, which is really lovely. Yeah, that is one of the surprising things to me about blogging and podcasting in general. People will I think some people assume that you're not a real person, which I mean, clearly you have to be a real person like nobody us a persona who just like does this blog about my life in this podcast or whatever. But people will send nasty notes and I would find that at least half the time when I write back, the people be like, WHOA, you wrote back, And then you have a much more civil exchange because it's suddenly a person who is having a conversation with you. And most of us are not given to having, you know, rude and attacking conversations with people that we we know, and so I think that's something that comes into it. You know. The honest truth though, is in life, you will never please everyone. It's just a losing game. You can't do it. And so if you're going to do anything public, anything putting yourself, your voice, your your story out there, you are going to be attacked, and that's just life. It's not a reason not to do it. It's just a reason to realize that it will happen. And you just have to be yourself because there is nothing else that you can be. One thing I would say with some of the criticism that is more common in the direction that this is I am fully in favor of women succeeding professionally, and when women succeed professionally, many of them earn good amounts of money. Like I am all in favor of women earning gobs of money, and if they do, we will talk about what strategies they use to make their big careers and their lives work. And I think that many people who have criticized from that angle are in favor of female empowerment. Like it's not that they don't believe women should do great things. I just, you know, I guess they don't want to talk about their lives once they do. I don't know, really, that's fine. I'm sure I'll get hate mail for having said that too, But I love that. The title of a new book that just came out, it's called we Should All Be Millionaires. I was like, Wow, that's just really so unapologetic. So if people go check that out, Rachel Rogers, we should have her on Yes, a self made, a self made black woman millionaire. If people blow their minds that way, they shouldn't because there's many of them. But anyway, that's a great topic for a book. Anyway, moving on our favorite interviews from the past, I went the past one hundred only yeah, past one hundred. Okay, go for it. Okay, Well, number one, I have to shout out to my sister, which was episode one hundred and sixty five. She at the time, I think my niece, Miriam was only you know, a few months old. But my sister is a single woman, single mother by choice, and also a small business owner, so she actually does have a really unique perspective. Plus she's my sister, so it was a really fun interview to do. Should we take turns? Let's take turns? Well, I mean we have some of the same ones. Interestingly, so doctor Laura Erdman, I think you may have mentioned her too. She was the guest who talked well. So I did my list of like specific things I've learned from guests. So not not my favorite guest, because I love all our guests, but the things I've learned actually listening to this. So doctor Laura Erdman is a obgyn who specializes to some degree in perimenopause and menopause, and so she shared a lot of information about hormones and what people can expect as they enter their late thirties early forties, which happens to be a big chunk of our listeners. So we got a lot of great feedback on that, and I thought that was a very helpful episode as well. That was number one hundred and sixty nine. Lanie Lannie I always pronounce the wrong It's Lannie in Linder was episode number one forty one, and I know you listed this as well. You mentioned her power color concept, which I love, and I also just got really I don't know if I have one concept, but I just felt really empowered to focus on my work wardrobe and then ended up working with kind of in a partnership with her and did greatly improve my everyday working wardrobe as a result of that episode. So that was an impactful one for me. Yeah, we are now the proud owners of some Unicloth draping t shirts which hot tip are slightly nicer than your average T shirt. And they're also like ten bucks or something, so you can order a lot of them and it's great. So Lannie another tip, she had the top five things everyone needs in their wardrobe and one of them was a power color. So you know what color it is for you that people are like, oh, that looks really nice on you, or is that a new shirt or did you cut your hair? It's usually because you're wearing something awesome. That's a great color, and you should wear more of that. So another one Shasta Nelson, our friendship expert. So she was in last fall, I think September or August somewhere around there. Her new book was out called The Business of Friendship, which is about making friends at work. But I've since read more of her work and had before as well, and she shared the message that friendship is really about repeated contact and that is why it seemed so much easier to make friends like when you were in school, because you could see each other five days a week. You are playing on the playground together, and why it is so much harder as an adult because you are not seeing your friends so regularly over and over again. However, many people are seeing their colleagues five days a week, similar to your classmates at school. And so that's why it can be a great way to make friends if you turn some of those work friends into kind of real friends or at least make it a part of your workplace life that you enjoy a great deal more. And she offers some suggestions on how to do that. So I thought that was a great episode. That was a great episode, one of my just all time favorites in terms of like enjoyment of recording. It was the one that we did one fight with Richie Holmes Grant, who made a career basically out of a hobby, which was making table scapes, and she really made a career out of it. Like she's been on anyv She's got a thriving Instagram and kind of social influencer type presence, and you can just tell she loves what she does and now she's kind of, I don't want to say, grooming her daughter, but encouraging her daughter to follow suit. And it was just something I knew nothing about and just open my mind to that. I think she's like one of the only career influencers I we've had on our podcast. But I thought she did a great job. Yeah, I love Ritchie. She's awesome and I love looking at her tablescapes on Instagram, so people go check her out. I had a great tip from Sarah Powers. Now I don't remember if some of these are going to go further back than hundred, because I didn't know we were only doing the last hundred, but that's okay. Sarah Powers is the co host of The Mom Hour, and she mentioned in the Evenings with Little Kids, back when her kids were small, she would sort of shrink the area. And I love that idea that you sort of get everything you need and go into like one room upstairs, and that you're not going out of that room. It sort of makes the whole evening more contained and more doable, it feels than if you're chasing three small people around the whole house. So that was just a practical tip that you know, if you can start shutting doors and reducing the physical space, you might be able to keep a better handle on that evening craziness. Finally, I will mention one of my favorite kind of pandemic themed guests was with Kelly Freyden, who we were I think connected to maybe via Emily Auster who we've also had on Emily is now kind of I feel like getting some a lot of press throughout this pandemic, some of it mixed, although I like a lot of what she has to say. But doctor Kelly Fraden was a pediatrician with a lot of evidence based kind of thoughts about how to handle the pandemic with kids, and I thought she did a really great job just kind of providing a nice balanced perspective that we all needed at the time. Yeah, and now I'm not really sure how far I'm going back here. But another great tip and we'll stop with mine on this one, but Cassie Joy Garcia, who runs the Fed and Fit blog, she says, if you're going to meal prep on the weekend, do it by thinking yourself as your own sous chef, prepping ingredients so you can easily assemble meals later. And I love this because I know that some people are given to spending all Sunday cooking for the week ahead, and I always just viscerally disliked that idea of spending your whole Sunday prepping for the week ahead. But she's saying, if you're going to do it, do it this way. That you're still gonna be able to make fresh meals. You're not pulling the frozen lasagna out of the freezer and defrosting it to make it. You just have you know, maybe pre cooked chicken or pre cut veggies or something that you can easily assemble a dinner later. And so I thought that that was a better take on the concept and probably makes for better food too. She's got some great cookbooks, good recipes, so go check her out. Yeah, she was one of my favorite food guests as well. She was great. All right, should we talk about what we learn from each other? Yes, let's talk about what we learn from each other. I mean, honestly, my list could be very, very long, but it doesn't. Should be short. My short list of things that I have learned from Laura over the past two hundred episodes or so, just to let go of a lot of guilt and judgment and ask myself if I'm going down a guilty road, like do I need to be what would Laura say? I mean, there's definitely a face because of my head questioning the narrative and switching the genders around. If something kind of seems gender based, then tell the story backwards and it will often reveal the truth. My husband actually really likes this one. I think it's eye opening to him. Sometimes something will sound normal and like, you know, a dad works very hard and is away from his children for fifty hours, and like if the mom did that, Like, would you feel the same kind of okay about it? Like maybe you what? I'm not saying yes or no, But sometimes flipping helps us to view my week in one hundred and sixty eight hours. Of course, not every day has to be balanced. There's a lot of time in those one hundred and sixty eight hours. And finally, what we talked about recently, which is like, don't let one bad day necessarily spiral into a story that changes everything because it doesn't necessarily have to. Yeah, well that's good. I'm glad you got that. Sometimes I need to remind myself of those things. I think one thing I got from Sarah that is surprisingly practical and useful. It's the weekend email. So I had heard I don't know if on her blog or if she'd mentioned it here, but that Sarah sends her and Josh is copying yourself so you can have a record of it too. But the cruise director email about the weekend plan, and as our weekends became more and more complex, I realized it was good to do that. It forced me to think through it as well, because then I start to see like, oh, yeah, we have this time available, this time is not available. We're gonna need to figure something out here because we have to be three different places. There are two of us, and so every Thursday I tend to send Michael an email. I often put a question in there to check that it is being read. Now I will say he does read it because he has learned that there is a question in it that if if the question is not responded to, there will be following like is it okay if I throw out your favorite ten T shirts? Okay? Thanks? That something he would have liked to have answered. I will assume yes. If no response a response. You know, I have not sent the weekend email since COVID, but I probably should start to get back. Yeah, it's really it's very useful. Well, I wasn't sending it. I wasn't sending it during COVID, and then when it's like I knew things were kicking back up, when I'm like, oh, I should start sending their weekend email again. But you know, it's been good. It's how we can make sure we both have some time to do things, how we get to everyone's events. So that was one hundred percent coppied from Sarah. And then I mean the fact that there is a whole world of planners out there that I did not know about, and it's just broadening my life in all sorts of ways. As I listened to Best Laid Plans every week I've been listening to. I was listening We're recording this on a Monday, and I was listening to it in the car this morning as I was dropping children off at school. So I've been learning about the cool pens, all the different options I can have. This week it was about if I wanted a more masculine style planner. Oh, you're super up to date. Oh goodness, all of them. Of course, that was this morning. That was just so impressive. So if you would ever do me the honor of allowing me to buy you a planner, if we could discuss what you would like in one, Oh that's great. I love that would be very excited. Okay, And I even have like various credits so I could do it in an easy manner. Oh yeah, I am all about that. I was. I'm almost done with my current notebook from Target because we don't want to waste that. I'm excited. Okay, we'll have to discuss this off. Well, I'm seriously excited. Okay, all right. Well, see if you know enough of my planning method or non method, as the case may be, that you can can do that. So yeah, And I also just I mean so appreciate from Sarah that she's so authentic on her blog, like and you guys see that those of you who read her blog like all that she's willing to share. I am probably not as brave as as she is, so I'm learning that from from Sarah. And you know, just I mean, it's been so fun to watch how your career has grown, I mean, your sheer ability to craft your career with multiple different aspects of the things you're interested in. As I mean take away from that, like what could I what could I do differently? What should I try? It's very inspirational. Well, thank you. I think you have a pretty cool career, so I don't think you need to mess with that too much. But no, I've been lucky and I'm also lucky that my readers are generally really really nice, or else I don't think I could be as open and or reckless as I sometimes. Let's call it open not reckless. Yes, all right, So let's do our Love of the week, which is best of both worlds. Of course, two hundred episodes in yay. If you enjoy us, please leave a rating or review. If you don't like us, maybe just don't like us silently, as we talked about earlier. That's fine. If you're still lifting listening up to two hundred episodes, or maybe you just stumbled on the two hundredth episode and like, who on earth are these people? That's fine. But if you like us, please leave a rating or a review. All right, So we have a question from a listener who's this was an audio one the steam Pipe. If you go over to Sarah's blog and click on best Laid Plans, that's where she's got the widget First Team Pipe. You can spe speak pipe. I speak steam pipe. What would what on earth would steampipe be? I don't know. I need any steampunk version of the steam punp version of this. Yes, you don't have to do that. I speak pipe. You can leave a up to ninety second question and so just say it's for best of both worlds, or we can try to figure it out too. All right, so let's listen to the question. Hi, Sarah and Laura. I'm a mom of three and my youngest child is six months old. After a few months of part time teleworking with my baby, I will be returning to full time teleworking with a nanny and my home while my big kids are at school. I am nursing and plan to continue to nurse baby throughout the day rather than pumping and bottle feeding. This is my first time teleworking with the baby in the same home, so I would love to hear from Laura about what challenges I may encounter, tips for managing these, and how to prepare myself, my baby, and my nanny for success, particularly as baby gets into that age of separation anxiety. Thanks so much, all right, Sarah, do you have any quick thoughts on that one? I mean, you've worked from home some over the past year or so, well, you are definitely the experts. Why don't you go first and I'll see if I have anything to add Because I never actually did get to work at home with a baby that's true. So it's great to have this option to work at home when you have a baby, because it means you don't have to pump, or at least you don't have to pump as much. Some people may decide to have a feeding be pumped during the day, but have others be not, and that's whatever, perfectly or choice. And if you want to pump all of them, that's great. But if you did not enjoy pumping, and I think a great many people do not particularly enjoy pumping, this presents another option. So you and your caregiver will need to work out something of a schedule, and you're going to be dealing with each other a lot because there will be certain things like you'll decide, okay, roughly, I'm going to try to take a break between ten and ten thirty for a feeding, but it's possible, like a call might run long, or you know, you need to move it up a little bit, So there's going to be a back and forth, and so probably the two of you will be texting each other a lot. I mean, that's just the way it is. You'll get into sort of rhythms of okay, well, this is a good time for her to take the baby out because it would be great if the house was silent during this period of time. But then, you know, this is the time when the baby is generally napping or whatever. It's just you'll come up with a good schedule, but it will take some time to get into that rhythm, and then of course the baby will change. So just plan on there being a little bit of flexibility into your day. There needed to be a little bit of flexibility for that. I've sort of figured out work I could do while nursing because you can definitely read through your emails or you know, read through the notes for an upcoming meeting or something like that. There are also people you can talk to while nursing a baby. There are probably people you shouldn't talk to while nursing a baby, but you could sort of organize the people in your life into those two camps and attempt to time your calls or make your calls with that in mind. But you know, I think you shouldn't worry about it too much, especially if your caregiver knows that it's okay to take the baby out and go do stuff, Because your caregiver may feel a little weird about being in the house with you, if this person's past experience has been people who have been out and about at their jobs, but especially if you do have a separate home office and they have the flexibility to come and go, it's just going to be more of a tag team kind of thing. And that's great because you'll get to spend some time with your baby and be able to continue nursing and not have to deal with the pump. That all makes sense. I think making sure that you remain open to it being a little bit chaotic, especially in a beg, is probably important. It's probably not going to run perfectly smooth right away, as Laura said, and try not to micromanage too much. I think with babies sometimes, and I know there are some others that swear by, like very specific schedules and stuff, but I think once you put a caregiver into the mix, it is hard to get, you know, someone to do things maybe exactly like you would. So it's okay to have parameters like don't let the babies sleep for all eight hours of the day or you know, things like that, but I also think that you know, they may want to do a walk in the morning, or and they may want to. You know, they may not put the baby exactly down for the nap when you think is ideal, But in retrospect those things probably don't matter as much as they seem to at the moment, So I would just keep an open mind. If baby is happy and not sleeping the entire day away so that they're awake all night, then you're probably good. Yeah, exactly, all right. Well, this has been Best of Both Worlds Episode two hundred, celebrating our two hundred episode of sharing ways to make work and life fit together. So we will be back next week with more of that for episode two hundred and one. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the Best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.