Sportsmanship Awards

00:00:13
Speaker 1: Okay, what a week it has been.

00:00:17
Speaker 2: I can't take myself seriously. I am sitting in my apartment and I've been watching reruns of Shit's Great, just because I love that show so much, and I've taken on a mora and maybe Caitlin will post it on Twitter when we release this pod. And the reason I'm doing this, people, is so that you get better sound quality.

00:00:46
Speaker 1: We've heard, we hear you. We don't have access to a professional studio. Some of our interviews are on zoom, some of them are across the room, socially distanced, with safety precautions taken in front of a bevy of microphones, and today it's under blanket.

00:01:00
Speaker 2: I can't take myself seriously. But anyway, we're going to carry on and we're going to do this because that's the Poston I am, and I do have a tequila in front of me.

00:01:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very unbrand for you though, So this is a good time to check in. It is halfway through the bubble version of the French Open. My favorite maybe I'm starting to reconsider if it's my favorite tournament.

00:01:25
Speaker 2: What's your favorite tournament?

00:01:27
Speaker 1: I mean, usually it's the clay swing because it's like getting nice here in New York. It's so fun to watch that red clay happening in my early morning times, which is European afternoon. It makes you feel like anything is possible. I like clay coor tennis. But I don't know if the French is my favorite Slam anymore, just because I think this Slam has been sort.

00:01:45
Speaker 2: Of tainted a little bit. Why.

00:01:49
Speaker 1: I don't know that this is the best possible iteration of the French Open, which is very tough to It's a tough criticism to make, just because they have all the odds that against them. The field is not complete. Ash party is not there, you know, trying to repeat that's push out yaomies didn't show up. I mean, I get it, like it's not the full force of the field that you normally get.

00:02:11
Speaker 2: Well, Ash just decided to stay home and win the local golf championships of the club. No big deal. I mean, honestly, I've been asked that question in the last couple of weeks about why she's not going to the French and what do I think about it? And unless it was let's listen, if there was one player that doesn't give a shit about taking an entire year off. Seriously, it's ash party. I mean, because this is a girl who won almost a million dollars the year that she decided to take three years away from the sport and wasn't even guaranteed that she was going to come back and play. And you know, look, it was an unbelievable year last year. Let's face it, she pretty much surprised the world, becoming world number one, winning the French Open, winning the WTA finals, and then you know, she's that type of person that doesn't seek out the spotlight, doesn't care necessarily about the money. I mean, she made gobloads of money last year, probably like fifteen million dollars or something. So for us, I mean, she'll be the first person to tell you I'm just a basic ippy girl, which means she's from Ipswich in Australia and she's just a pretty basic kid. Like she doesn't really want all the trappings of fame and a bigger, bigger house. She can buy a big house where she lives, trust me, on a golf course and she's really happy doing that, playing golf, but walking her dogs. I mean, having said that, it's pretty amazing that she didn't go back to the tournament that she won last year. But can I just say, like if for longevity of someone like Ashpardy, it's probably the best thing that's happened to you, to be honest.

00:03:41
Speaker 1: Schedule maintenance is we see increasingly important for the health and well being and mental health for a lot of these players.

00:03:47
Speaker 2: Remember when Venus and Serena used to take off like tons of time in the year and yeah, they got us. They wouldn't go to Asia, they wouldn't go to Europe sometimes when the European swing was on at the end of the year, and everyone's like, I mean they don't support the tour, blah blah blah. And I was one of the I was one player that was like, who cares, Like if it's going to mean that they are going to actually keep playing this sport for another ten years, I mean if you had said to them back then, or they don't support the tour and they don't do this, and they don't do that. But here they are at thirty nine, you know, thirty nine years of age, thirty eight years of age, still playing the tour. Now they're both thirty nine and forty still playing the tour. If I'd said to them at twenty five, they'd still be doing that, They'd think I was frigging nuts. But the fact that we still had them for an extra ten years is a lot of the reason is because they did take time away from the tour. So I think this will I think this will actually affect a lot of players in a lot of different ways. I think a lot of players will see this opportunity that. Look, the ones that don't seek the spotlight, you know what I mean, the ones that really don't need.

00:04:47
Speaker 1: The spotlight get rejuvenated when they can step back exactly, I think. Yeah.

00:04:51
Speaker 2: And the ones that don't freak out about not playing for six months or possibly a year. Yeah, I mean, I'm not looking. I'm not out here, you know, saying, Hey, everybody takes six months off. But if you really are at a point where you are mentally fried, take the time, sure, step away. You don't forget how to play, you don't forget how to be great. The thing that stops a lot of people from being really, really, really good is the mental side of tennis. And if it means stepping away to actually get rejuvenated and get the mindset to go hard for ten months of a year do it take the time away?

00:05:27
Speaker 1: Well, I think what's interesting about this pandemic is we're all learning this, whether we're pro athletes or not, which is just you know, taking time to be outside, be with our families, not be in an office. You know, I would be surprised if office culture came back to quote unquote normal because here in the States, it's pretty normal, especially in New York, to brag about how busy you are, how overtaxed you are, how many people need your time, and that's a status symbol, if anything. It becomes sort of a way to humble brag. But the truth is, you know, we're all too busy, we're all too manic, and I think like we have not paid enough attention to you know, slowing down and thinking about things. But going back to Ash party, because of today's result IGOs via Tech from poland that extremely fun to watch team beating Simona hallup pretty routinely, Ashbarty is going to retain the number one ranking through the end of the year anyway, So it didn't even matter for the ranking sake that she didn't show up to defend.

00:06:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, having said all that, I don't think she gave to you know, yeah, I mean you know if someone said, oh ah, she dropped us three or whatever after the French because had it want or she would have been like, oh okay, whatever once my titon tomorrow, you know what I mean. Like, she just doesn't get too worry into worked up about stuff like that. But having said that, twenty twenty nothing makes sense.

00:06:46
Speaker 1: Nothing makes sense, So let's talk about some stuff that doesn't make sense.

00:06:49
Speaker 2: Because we've had a.

00:06:50
Speaker 1: Very funny and several riffs about some of the sportsmanship we've seen thus far at Roland Garaz And it's one of the things that you and I always debate. We haven't always agreed on some of the interpretations or some of the officiating in particular, or maybe some of the code of behavior.

00:07:09
Speaker 2: That some of the players bring to the tournaments.

00:07:10
Speaker 1: My perspective, obviously is having been an amateur player and playing in college, some of which I think is applicable.

00:07:17
Speaker 2: Where cheating happens all the time, where.

00:07:19
Speaker 1: Cheating happens all the time. And I'm happy to tell you a story about how a non officiated out of conference match against a player from the University of Pittsburgh nearly ended in a brawl and no, I don't remember this woman's name, but I caught one of her serves in the middle of the box and stared her down and I said, if you want a cheat, I'm going to call this out for the rest of the match.

00:07:37
Speaker 2: And it worked.

00:07:38
Speaker 1: But it was like, oh God, do you have to make me do this? Because it was an out of conference match and so umpires were not required by NCAA rules, and so usually they would be provided and I would have appealed, but in this case I had to do a little you know, tit for tat no pun, no pun intended my shirt? Is there a pun in there?

00:07:56
Speaker 2: I don't know. No, it is not just tit and tact and help myself.

00:08:02
Speaker 1: I want to start with one of the most insane tennis matches that has happened, I think in several years that I've seen, but certainly in Roland Garros, which was the first round match between Sarah Ronnie and Kiki Burtens.

00:08:18
Speaker 2: Is it Burton's or Burton's.

00:08:21
Speaker 1: I think it's Burton's because you get the Burtons Mertens.

00:08:25
Speaker 2: But why do you say pretends because I speak Dutch?

00:08:29
Speaker 1: Okay, haven't you joined only heard me speak Dutch clearly not Yeah, well, I don't actually know one word in Dutch, and it's the salad.

00:08:37
Speaker 2: Really, I know a couple Dutch. It's not good. Oh sure I should have known, or donkey Belle, that's thanky.

00:08:47
Speaker 1: I do know that You're welcome? Yea, okay, So I mean I'm on a roll. Wow, oh boy, somebody stopped her literally? So can we talk about the Sarah Ronnieberts match? However you pronounce her last name? Yeah. The last twenty minutes of this are some of the most insane match. I'm not going to say it was a good tennis match, but it was an incredibly captivating tennis match. It ends with Kiki saving several match points, Sarah Ronnie getting time violation after time violation for not being able to control her toss.

00:09:23
Speaker 2: She had tourettes of the service toss.

00:09:25
Speaker 1: Oh god, has anybody has anybody taken a look at her serve in the last several years?

00:09:28
Speaker 2: This is not new brutal, brutal What do you do with.

00:09:31
Speaker 1: A player like that who can't get their toss up and serves an eighty seven mile and ever.

00:09:35
Speaker 2: I'm I'm not going to give her too much shit because I had a little bit of a issue through my career, not a lot, but at times, the yips on the ball toss, the Anna Ivanovich, the.

00:09:50
Speaker 1: Copatitudes Elena Demitieva, they have pin in your stomach, and I mean, it's it's not fun.

00:09:56
Speaker 2: I used to have. But before I played my first woman in doubles final, I no beggar. I was having a bit of a mile panic attack about it the night before. I mean I would go to bed going, oh my god, please get your toss in the right spot, Oh my god, Oh my god, Oh my god. And thankfully I was. I was fine the next day. But yeah, so I can understand this to a certain grie nowhere near how bad it is for Sarah Ronnie. I never, for one time in my career thought about serving underund because I couldn't get the ball toss in the right place. The anxiety that she must feel is just out of this world. I don't know why she keeps playing just because of that. But you know, God love her because she's actually done pretty well over.

00:10:34
Speaker 1: The last She had to come through qualities and she made it, and she nearly be Kiggy after having several metro pops. I don't want to, and you're gonna sidetrack me for the incredibly on point thing I want to say, which is a continuation of this.

00:10:48
Speaker 2: So picture it.

00:10:48
Speaker 1: Here's your running picture bouncing not serving the serve, time violation after time violation, causing her.

00:10:55
Speaker 2: To lose a serve.

00:10:56
Speaker 1: Second serve is underhand. By the third set, Kiki is running in for drop shots that she's hitting off the second serve. So many times she's doing this that she starts full body cramping.

00:11:07
Speaker 2: Full body cramping.

00:11:08
Speaker 1: Have you ever had a full body cramp?

00:11:09
Speaker 2: I assume you have. I have not had a full body cramp, but I've definitely had a cramp in my calf muscle. Not fun. I can't imagine what a full body cramp feels like, because the one in my car felt like somebody had literally shot me from twenty feet away, right person. By the way, I just took a drink of tequila while you were telling me this story because my anxiety started to grow. So go on just thinking about this.

00:11:29
Speaker 1: Yes, so Kiki pretends is involuntarily spasming. They're trading breaks because nobody can hold serve because Kiki is spasming with cramps. Irani cannot serve because of her toss. Nobody wants to win this thing.

00:11:43
Speaker 2: It's eight all. Well, no, they want to win so bad they can't even play. Maybe one can't get the ball in play and the other one can't run to the ball.

00:11:50
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So here we are. Then Sarah Ronnie starts making fun of Key Breton, saying like, essentially she's acting, just go with Kiki whatever long star very short he can somehow ends up winning the match, collapses, I Rannie runs off the court without even tapping rackets, which has now become the customery thing to do in act.

00:12:10
Speaker 2: You don't like that? Come on, do you have any times I would rather have smashed my opponent with the racket than touch them? Yes? But you did? You know it took everything? You may.

00:12:21
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask him more about that. But don't you think there's something unique about tennis that you have to acknowledge your opponent at the net.

00:12:29
Speaker 2: After what I just watched in the hockey finals, go Tampa Bay Lightning, So I throw that in there. Sorry, it's like a Now, these guys beat the shit out of each other and they always shake hands off to.

00:12:37
Speaker 1: The Yes, it is part of the parameters of sport that you acknowledge the opponent. And it's nice if you can throw in a kind word. None of that happened. I Rannie runs off the court, he pretends, collapses on the bench, weeps into her towel. You hear as she's leaving get going into the player tunnel.

00:12:55
Speaker 2: Ironnie screams ugh and cooda, which means go fuck yourself. M h as multilingual. It's amazing.

00:13:06
Speaker 1: The trainer is bringing a wheelchair for Kiki to be wheeled off the court.

00:13:10
Speaker 2: I was like, with the echo of walking off the court, swear to God.

00:13:16
Speaker 1: I mean, I was. I had a hard time describing this to other people who hadn't seen it. There's so much going on there. Later, I pressed, they both get asked about it, obviously have very conflicting accounts. What do you what do you make of this? I mean, people say that Ironnie's been like acting this for a while. You know, she got tagged for having a steroid in her pasta, and she said was her mother's breast cancer made medicine that fell into the tortaloney.

00:13:40
Speaker 2: That's I can I can say without really worrying about any defamation lawsuit that I think that's going to be a load of ship. The fact that Kiki Buttons is not known to do stuff like that. Are certain players in the locker room that are just like, holy cow, here we go again. Yes, Tramska, but but no Kiker Burtons. It's not going to be one of those people. And she wants to win that match. She's not got to pretend that. She's like, you know a lot of players do that because they want an excuse for losing. Yeah, but if you're winning, but you're winning, and she's not that. She doesn't want to lose that match. So she's just struggling. And a lot of times cramping does happen because you are it's also very nervous, and you get anxiety and anxious. And I mean one of the great cramp or bodied cramps I oversaw was a Caroline wasn't Yaki at the WTA Finals in Doha one year, and I remember I was standing courtside next to her, and I remember her looking literally into my eyes as I was standing in the court like and I was like breathe, because she was just about she knew she was good and the thing with cramping is people don't understand. It comes and goes like sometimes you're like, wait, I'm fine, and then all of a sudden you move and then you feel like someone just shot you from twenty feet away. Again. So, no, Kiki is not that type of person.

00:14:57
Speaker 1: You saw the anguish on her place. I mean she she said to herself she would have to be she should quit tennis and start an acting career. If that was she was somehow able to pull that off as some sort of fictitious.

00:15:08
Speaker 2: That was her comment in the press. I thought it was pretty funny. And then Irannie is like she's fine.

00:15:12
Speaker 1: I just starr in the cafe and it's like yeah, because cramps once you get treated and you get potassium and you get stuff into your body. Anyway, speaking of this, when we talked about a little bit, Diana Strump said, the young Ukrainian, the really really hard hitting player coached priorly by buy Sasha Bayen before they very acrimoniously seemingly split up.

00:15:33
Speaker 2: Just another firing for Sasha.

00:15:35
Speaker 1: He's getting He's getting bounced from all sorts of players.

00:15:38
Speaker 2: Dooct doesn't I Yes, he's getting bounced more than a Novak Djokovic preservement situation.

00:15:44
Speaker 1: I was wondering that was going and off you did.

00:15:47
Speaker 2: Thanks.

00:15:49
Speaker 1: She takes medical timeouts at highly questionable times, I responded after the latest incident of this as a sort of obvious menum killer. If you're going to take a medical time out, you have to be like dragged off the.

00:16:04
Speaker 2: Court, you know what I mean?

00:16:05
Speaker 1: To me, it's like a soccer dive where you're like collapsing on the ground just to get a penalty kick and then you pass back up and you know, run the length of the field. Is there some way to police this at all?

00:16:15
Speaker 2: Sadly not. We have gone through this through the years, over and over and over and over. We've had many people to take advantage of this, and you know your Strengthski is one of these players. It just has a locker room reputation of when's it going to happen? Like when am I going to take? When is she going to take the time out? Like when is it going to happen? Obviously she's winning, it doesn't happen if she's losing, or it's questioning when she is, you know, not playing at her best or something. You just wonder when's it going to happen? And I mean, look, I want to say to her right now, if every single one of these has been legit, you are the most injury prone teenagers I've ever met in my whole life. I mean, come on, like, you got to get your shit together. But if it isn't, then you've got to get your shit together because it just doesn't look it. It doesn't look good for the sport. You are losing respect left and right on the tour with players, and it's a shame because she's a great young talent and I hope that through the years she will start learning that doesn't benefit her and it's not a good look me. So, I mean, some players do it to take advantage of the system. Unfortunately, there is a lot of players that don't. There's a lot of kicker Burtons, there's a lot of you know myself, I think I took maybe three or four injury time outs my entire career. I played twenty two years, and one was because I pretty much broke my finger and I had someone come out and like literally tape it. I broke my wrist. Actually I didn't even call the trainer out in that one. I tore my cord. That was at Wimbledon. Like a couple of times that I've called the trainers out. It's been a catastrophe, you know, to the point where the physios are like, wait, who's calling for the trainer, Renee Stubbs, Oh my god, get out, there must be really bad, you know, and get to the chapper, get the chopper pire. But you know, there are certain players that you're just like, oh my god, this is must be really bad. Remember when Andrea Petkevich, like our buddy, like fell at these strain up and I was sitting there. I was like, oh no, this is bad, you know. So there are players that really need it, that genuinely really need to be taken care of, whether it be an injury or a twisted ankle or a pulled hamstring. I mean, I watched Anna Bogden go down in prior running for a ball up five to one in the first set. She was wheeled off the court. So there are a lot of players that need medical attention at that time. And maybe they can get through a match and maybe they can recover for the next match, and we should give them that opportunity to do that. But unfortunately there are little shittheads on the tour, men's and women's that do it to either have an excuse for mum or dad or the coach that oh, look I hurt myself or they want an excuse for the press or not. And unfortunately we're never going to be able to get rid of that because the safety of the players comes first. Well, that seems logical.

00:18:53
Speaker 1: Let me just ask you a question though, Like I personally, when we have disagreed about something, it's usually because you're understandably a little bit more sympathetic to the players, whereas I'm really really Like to me, growing up with rules and being a good sport.

00:19:10
Speaker 2: Was maybe to a fault me too.

00:19:13
Speaker 1: Taught to me like don't ever smash your rocket, don't ever lose your temper on court if you ever were to disrespect on line, but anything like that, it was just I had a coach who would yank me immediately. I did it twice, never happened again. So for me, like the Serena thing, you know, we had a slight difference of opinion about calling versus rules or rules, you know, So I'm saying, I guess you know, there's obviously some gray area But to me, I do wonder because I think there are people who listen or watch Yes Scramska medical timeout thing or a rafa playing the clock thing, and they say, well, you know, if it's within the rules, or if it's you know, playing the sport and using all of your advantages, what's.

00:19:51
Speaker 2: So bad about it? What's so bad about.

00:19:53
Speaker 1: A player getting a terrible reputation, which Diana Yoestromska certainly has because as you said, she'd be the most injury prone team ever.

00:20:00
Speaker 2: Seen or needs to get it together.

00:20:03
Speaker 1: But what's the downside, Like, what's the consequence she could face for not being a good sport?

00:20:07
Speaker 2: What's the downside for them? Nothing other than losing the reputation of the players and people talking about them behind their backs. And I mean there are just some players that didn't care. They used the rules to benefit themselves and they didn't care who they were taking advantage of or what it was doing to their reputation. They didn't care. And so for me, I could never do that because my reputation. I always wanted to look at myself in the mirror in twenty years time and go listen, I may have lost certain matches, I could have made with you, but I don't care.

00:21:06
Speaker 1: But let me ask you a question. So this work, it seems like we're picking on the women. Don't worry, we'll get to the men. Another one was the Laura Siegmund double bounce down one five set point to Kiki Modenovitch. The other Kiki whose name I do have more of a handle.

00:21:22
Speaker 2: On, obviously Simon Ladenovitch and not Burtons.

00:21:25
Speaker 1: But anyways, it's pretends I think I think it's a Dutch pronunciation.

00:21:29
Speaker 2: Okay, well, maybe I'm wrong, and we're going to get people tweeting us after this thing, tell us all the smaltest person in the room goodbye.

00:21:35
Speaker 1: It's oftentimes that I'm proven wrong about these things, especially when it comes to my over confidence in pronunciations. Truly, so is that a call you make on yourself to me growing up?

00:21:46
Speaker 2: Always? Because the empire.

00:21:47
Speaker 1: Doesn't always catch a double bounce, there's no var like they have in soccer video review, isn't necessarily part of the culture of calling that call. In this case, ava Atsaraki Moore, who's great and one of like the legend umpires, just didn't happen to see it. Maybe if the body was blocking it, but upon review, Laura Siegmund very clearly did not make that drop shot. I argue, if you're a player, there's no way you don't know. You always know, and you should always call it on yourself.

00:22:16
Speaker 2: There's only one time that you may not know, and that's if you extend your arm out so far and your head is not looking at the ball at all. Right, so you or a dive. I mean I've done that right where I've do for a ball? Is it dove dived? Dive dove?

00:22:33
Speaker 1: You actually don't know?

00:22:34
Speaker 2: Oh God, that's amiral. Let's just keep going anyway where I'm gonna say dove because it just sounds better doper a ball And you're not quite sure did you get under it? Did the did it hit the ground and then go over the net if you're not looking right, if you're not looking. But when that double bounce happened with Siegmund, oh you know that's a double bounce. You know it for a fact that that's double bounce because it hits your I could on the strings. Okay, when it hits the strings, you know it's a double bounce.

00:23:06
Speaker 1: Other way it would have had the left of the right very bad them.

00:23:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Ava Asdaraki to me is the first umpire in the game. I'm shocked that she missed it, to be quite honest with you, because it wasn't that tough to see. I'm really surprised she missed it. But having said that, there's no way i'd take that point. No way I take that point. The only way, as I'm going to say this, the only way I would take that point is if I saw somebody, if I saw my opponent do the exact same thing to me two games earlier, maybe, and I said, oh, you know what you just did to me, Fuck you. But that is probably the only way that I would do that, just for a retribution of like, you didn't call it on yourself. She missed it, so you know what, now we're square. I would still probably find a hard time doing that because I was the type of person that would get so annoyed at the umpire for missing the cop. I'd be like they maybe they called like thirty forty or or juice in that circumstance, juice, and I'd be like, no, you fucking idiot, you missed the call. I'd be annoyed at the umpire because I just well, yeah, you know, listen, I had my fair share of yelling at umpire, so it was more about me wanting to prove them wrong, right, So I'd be like, you missed the call, your idiot's set, you know, and I'd walk in my chair. And another reason is you know that there are sixteen cameras on you at that point, which so once again it comes down to locker room reputation. Everybody knows for the rest of Laura Siegeman's life, she's still in the tournament that she cheated and won that first set. Now I'm not saying she would have won the match or lost the match, but I know for a fact she should have been down one set to love.

00:24:37
Speaker 1: See Kiki Bladovitch winning that first set six to one. Hard to imagine she loses that.

00:24:43
Speaker 2: Man, Well, I mean, we don't have to lose the match six one, five one up at the USO.

00:24:46
Speaker 1: It's true, Yeah, no, it's absolutely true. And she did have several other set points in that first set. She had set point can relate to that, so hard something going awry, you're opponent of doing something and just throwing you completely out of your game, which I guess you know, if you're a profession that shouldn't happen.

00:25:01
Speaker 2: But yeah, Laura Siegmund, like that's still yeah, that's fun. Shit, I mean shit, yeah. And like I said, I mean, you do you do wonder what if three games from now the umpire misses the same call. I get it, all of that sort of stuff. But for me as a player, you walked to the chair and you sit down and you accept the fact that you lost a first set because she lost the first set, she lost a presette.

00:25:20
Speaker 1: You mentioned to me that there was a very similar instance that happened in your career with Yolena Dulkic.

00:25:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me what happened dark on the same court as well. Really French Open, Yeah, French Open, Center court, semi final, the women's doubles. It was two to one in the first set. We were up a break, Lisa Raymond and myself and it was literally fifteen all. I mean, I remember it all like it was yesterday. I hit Concita Martinez hit a return and I had a high fine VOLLI not one that I would normally just smack at my opponent's feet point over and because I poached and instead I hit it a little bit late, so I hit it a bit fat, and I knew as soon as I hit it was actually going to hit Eulena like because I always aim at my on its feet, just for those people out there, that's a good place to aim sure and play when you were a poaching And I hit it a bit late, and I knew straight away it was going to hit her. And when I hit it, she started turning her back because she knew, oh boy, this is coming right at me. And when I hit it actually I hit it fat and higher than I expected, and it hit her in the back and it ricocheted off and it went out, and the umpire said love fifteen fifteen thirty, or maybe it was the first point, love fifteen. I said. I looked at him and I said, no, did the ball hit her in the back and went out? And he said I didn't see it, which I'm not going to give him too much shit, because the angle may have looked a little bit weird, and you seem to be with even more law.

00:26:42
Speaker 1: It could have been in the way of her visual field.

00:26:45
Speaker 2: It happens, right, but she could have I said to her, no, no, the ball hit her, And he said, well, I missed it, and then I said, the Elna and keep it mind. Elana and I that a point were really were. I wouldn't say we were great friends, but we were friends. And I was somebody who always stick stuck up for her. Just read her book and you'll figure out why. And I hit it and it went out, and she turned around to me. She would not look at me. And she turned around to me and I said, Elaine, at the ball hit you, you need to tell him. And she looked at me and she waved her finger in my face and said, don't talk to me, talk to him. And I was like, oh, you little fuck. I couldn't believe it because it was basically just she knew that he missed the call. She was not going to call it on herself. Maybe she was worried about getting beat by her dad after the match. There's all these sort of things, lots of other things going on. But I was so angry after that. It actually cost me the match because Lisa and I should have won that match. And it's a story I told on the air at ESPN when I tried to hit an opponent with a set point out the French Open and Lisa and I if I just hit a regular ball that I WoT it was a set point. No, that that point was early in the second set, but on match point, on set point at the first set, Lisa and I were winning comfortably. At that point, I tried to I had an over sort of semi high ball and I tried it was an overhead, and I tried to hit Elaine with it. That was my own goal, My own goal, only goal was to hit her. And of course I had the whole line in my head. I was like, did that hit you? Did that one hit you? Right? It was all set in my mind. Instead of hitting her, I actually missed the overhead. I shanked it and hit it out. I almost kip con Cheta in the head, which Cheta was a really good friend of mine and still is. And I missed it. We lost the game, and then we ended up losing the set. See but it's so he stuck in your head. This whole thing.

00:28:26
Speaker 1: Did lose the set because of you were going for blood, because you felt like you needed to punsure. And who says tennis isn't mental, It is metal?

00:28:35
Speaker 2: But I do think like if you are. It was the biggest lesson on a tennis court.

00:28:39
Speaker 1: Don't lay a rage blind your st I.

00:28:42
Speaker 2: Only had one thought. I didn't. My thought wasn't yeah, we're going to win this set. Let's put it to bed and win this match and be in the final. It was I was like, Oh, I'm going to hit you and I'm going to teach you a lesson. No, I taught myself a lesson, which I guess I did teach someone a lesson, just wasn't the right yourself. Let's talk with the men a little bit.

00:29:00
Speaker 1: A couple of since this episode is all about sportsmanship, I'm calling it sportsmanship Awards. Some notable jawing at umpires happening from Jack Sock Jack sock Man. I mean, I guess I'm glad he's back in main draws.

00:29:13
Speaker 2: Just people know, I just took another drink after that story. You just needed to take it easy money grandson on everyone.

00:29:20
Speaker 1: You have some great commemorative towels, though I can say having partakenation them just just kissing, I'll burn them all.

00:29:27
Speaker 2: Jacksack is back.

00:29:28
Speaker 1: He's got lots to say to umpires all the time about basically the hawkeye or lack thereof on Clay is a real contentious thing. Everyone says hawkey is not very accurate on clay, and so don't yearn for this technology that can't.

00:29:43
Speaker 2: Actually call balls on clay. Do you have an opinion about this? What do you think? My opinion is if you listen to anything that came out of my mouth at the US Open, you know exactly what I think of this. I mean, get hawkeye on every single court. Yeah. And here's the reason, Cablin, because on clay, as you know, when you clean the lines, sometimes the line doesn't get clean perfectly. A little bit of the the little bit of the brush makes a little bit of the line not look so is there clay?

00:30:09
Speaker 1: There?

00:30:10
Speaker 2: Is there not? And then when you get a balance that's really close to the line, is it touching the line? Is it not touching the line? Well, I'm not sure because that's the brush line. You know, there's too much ambiguity in that in itself. And I can tell you you can there can be ballmarks where you can get five players come over and be like, what do you think and two of them will say it's in three of them will say so terribly. That is that is, in my opinion, too ambiguous, and it is to subject to a human mistake, raor whatever you want. Now there's going to be arguments to that because the player is going to be like, but look, but see this, but what about that? But the angle And it's happened to me so many times that I've had so many arguments with umpires and you know, the ball can hit the clay, and the clay can you know, push up a bit of clay against the line, so therefore it looks like it's out, but it really anyway, My point is you can't argue with the fucking machine. Okay. So if you are a player at the strength one hundred and fifteen in the world or number one in the world, that machine is calling the same.

00:31:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's you're okay for it, right, It's calibrated the same way. So there's a market for the same margin for no arguments, everybody.

00:31:21
Speaker 2: And listen, there has been a couple of arguments where players like I remember John Is in the last year when there was like, there's no way that balls in or out or whatever it was, and everyone was like, we agree with you. And I've actually had it to me. Happened to me in a mixed doubles.

00:31:33
Speaker 1: Matching all the humans agree, but the machine is saying something else is exactly literally.

00:31:39
Speaker 2: I'll never forget I was playing mixed doubles or so hit it was a double fault. I could see it right off the racket. Oh, it's going to be a double the angle of the ball hit. Linesman calls it out, unpire, It doesn't say word. I turn around, walk back. One of the one of the oppontents not both said oh, challenge, and then the machine said it was in. I was like, there's no way there. But I was standing on the line and I can see that boll. There is Michel prayer. But it's going to be the same for everybody. And that's the point. No one needs to have this ambiguous bullshit on tennis anymore. When we have the technology, just use.

00:32:13
Speaker 1: It, and we wouldn't have lines people as Novaktovitch seems to want.

00:32:18
Speaker 2: The amount of flights I had on Twitter during the US Open about people like you don't care about the linesmen. I'm like, listen, I'm sorry for the linesmen. They're going to lose their jobs like at the Grand Slams and the big tournaments, but I'm sorry when it comes to the difference between a player being in the possible in second round of a tournament that could change their careers and their lives. I don't give a shit about the linesmen at that point. I care about let's get these these match. These players are working their asses off to get it right. And I saw so many instances at the US Open where you were leading up to the players match on the main courts to get the call right on the biggest of circumstances. For example, just one that popped into my head, Jen Brady caught semi finals of the US Open break point hits the ball back of the line, doesn't query it. That's a whole different story.

00:33:06
Speaker 1: One.

00:33:06
Speaker 2: She didn't do that, but that ball was in. It was break points, one of the best servers in the game, she'd just come back from being down forty in the previous service game. What's to say she couldn't have gone out of that service game. But it said she didn't even query it, and the game was over, and then the.

00:33:18
Speaker 1: Match was over.

00:33:20
Speaker 2: Seriously, You've got the technology telling us that ball is in, and you're saying, because she didn't challenge, we're not going to get it right. It's just it's yeah.

00:33:29
Speaker 1: I know, I remember vividly the Lena Agger red Banska semi final at Wimbledon. Remember that niece, you know, called out she doubles. Yeah, set over, Yeah, that's the match lean I could have been in a final, probably would have won.

00:33:42
Speaker 2: It and had And she just said to us, she has said to me, it's the biggest mistake of her career, was not challenging that ball, right, And the reason she didn't want to do shouldn't have. The reason she didn't want to do it is because she didn't want to interrupt her second serve. And any player would understand that full process, because like if I challenge and then it's out, and then I could have like wait thirty seconds to and you know, go away from my normal cadence of serving my second serve, and I still have a second serve and it's still set point. No, it was set Yeah, it was over over. Yeah.

00:34:10
Speaker 1: But you're right, it's impossible to wait for a call in between.

00:34:13
Speaker 2: You cannot leave it up to players to make those decisions on balls that are that close to the line, to make a split second decision when we already have the technology. Well that's the thing.

00:34:22
Speaker 1: One of the things that's really frustrating about a lot of sports. And I think I watched a lot of baseball, and I you do.

00:34:29
Speaker 2: I really liked baseball. I married a Yankees fan, so we watched a lot of beeseball.

00:34:32
Speaker 1: In our house. And also I was a Montreal Expos fan up until we didn't have a team anymore, which don't gonna be started. We should have because it should have won the ninety six.

00:34:41
Speaker 2: They should have gone the World.

00:34:42
Speaker 1: Series and said there were a player strike it ruined the team.

00:34:45
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, Andre's Galabraga. We had a great team that year. Rowlie Bard, Mois Salu Seeth the one of those cubs that had that that that catch out in the outfield and it didn't get when the bartman caught it.

00:34:59
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, is that yeah, like you took the catch away because it was like it should have been interference.

00:35:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. What a right documentary.

00:35:07
Speaker 1: By the way, what I hate about baseball and I love baseball.

00:35:09
Speaker 2: What I hate about baseball.

00:35:11
Speaker 1: Is the strike zone is completely arbitrary, and the ump is making up to players how well you jaw the umpire.

00:35:19
Speaker 2: All of that affects the calls. Right. There should be no room for interpretation.

00:35:24
Speaker 1: If the viewers at home have a more accurate view on whether a ball is a strike or a ball, or whether a tennis ball is in or out, then the players playing on the court that is a failing. So I don't have anything against lines people, nor do I feels and the most accurate calls. If you can sell at home that something is happening and it's more right than what's happening on the court or the baseball field.

00:35:48
Speaker 2: As a work, that's a problem. It's like, you know, I don't want to take I'm sorry for the old linesmen out there. I know that you know some it's an unpaid I think I get it all. I'm really sorry. We do have to have linesmen to learn like the because all that gold badge umpires have come through being linesman, so we need that system to be able to get linesman to become umpires. But there has to be a better way. And as far as I'm concerned that the big tournaments get it right period.

00:36:18
Speaker 1: Let's talk about something else involving sportsmanship, which doesn't have anything to do with lines or umpires or calls, but rather coaching from the stands. In one player's case, specifically the ongoing dialogue that Stefano sizzypas who I Love has with his father, which clearly seems well beyond what is considered acceptable from interaction from a coach to a player standpoint. Other players complain about it. If anybody's watched any of his matches this year at the French Open, you will it's unmistakable because now there's no crowds, so all you hear is squeaking of their feet or in his matches, squeaking of feet and his dad.

00:36:57
Speaker 2: It's nuts. Yeah, it is nuts. Well, I do know I have heard from a reliable source that some of the stuff out of his mouth is not super positive. So I don't know if it's necessarily a positive or a negative. Actually think it hurts it. Well. I was going to play Devil's advocate there by saying I don't know if it's a positive or negative, because he does win a lot of matches, but in my opinion, it is without question a negative for him. I think a little bit of encouragement every now and again, maybe a little bit of something here and there. We all do it. I coach from the sideline, I mean, any coach that says they don't coach is full of shit. I actually think one of probably the only people that doesn't coach at all from the stands is literally Patrick Moretugwood. That's hilarious, which is a lot of use, and like Serena barely looks at him for that reason. So I think it's hilarious that really, this rule has been scrutinized so much since we happened, and it's clear she didn't even see him during that. Oh no, that's not. The interpretation of the rule is if you're coaching, and same coaching at players looking, but Devil's advocate for that match, it wasn't look at him. Yeah, so just have a little bit of common sense on that one. But don't even get me started on that one. But but yeah, look at the bottom line is you should allow coaching from the stands because as a coach, I can tell you can only tell your players so much, because if you tell them too much, it's paralysis by analysis and they're just like shut the fuck up, Like, let me think for myself. Once in a blue moon, you want to tell them, maybe watch the serve out wide, keep hitting that back and cross court. Okay, that's the way to play. That's the perfect point. Keep that going, same, same, same, or you know, there are little things that you can say to a player that kind of makes sense to them where it's not overloading them. Same pattern, great job, keep hitting that serve. You know, Oh that's a good serve. Keep that one going. They're all little just nudges in the bludges in the in the right direction. But like coaching like he does, that is not helpful to him in tough moments.

00:39:05
Speaker 1: Literally not no. I mean the Hamburg final that you lost was largely the dad left, screamed at the dad to leave, the dad comes back, he starts losing again. It's like, I don't speak Greek, but whatever this dude is telling is Stephanos is not helpful. And also it brings up one of my least favorite tropes, which is the parent coach. If you're a professional athlete, at a certain point, don't you just want to say, like, hey, thanks usually dad, but also potentially mom, thank you so much for getting me here. I hope you also enjoy the fruits of me being a successful athlete, which means I've now bought you a house and you're partaking of the upside of this, But now it's time for me to go my own way and get a professional coach.

00:39:46
Speaker 2: When it's not healthy, it's pretty obvious, and I think that, you know, I think that there's a point where every one of these players needs to find a professional coach to help him through these moments. But look, there's also been some great play a coach relationships. I think Caroline wasn't the aki, you know, has stated on many times that she didn't think that anyone could sort of understand her like her dad, and obviously they had a great relationship and she did incredibly well throughout her career. So there are there are certainly some coach player parent relationships that have done pretty well. But at some point, yeah, I do think it's much healthier for everybody that they step away and they get it, they get somebody that's not their parent, because it starts to affect their relationships, and it starts to affect in my opinion, and more than anything, I think that it really stops the player becoming socially more just more mature, you know. And some of them, I mean, I think Maria Bartoli like is a perfect example. Look, she did great with her dad, she won Wimbledon, but I think it took her a long time when she was finished playing to finally get socially sort of like ground fitting as it exactly, and things like that, because you know, your father's around her the time. He was around all the time. And there's plenty like that that I don't want to name over and over and over because well.

00:41:06
Speaker 1: Some of them are really well known. Some of them was named after them. Like one of them that I was really happy that he wasn't around was Caroline Garcia. I don't think it's an accident that she's had a pretty good European clacewing.

00:41:16
Speaker 2: Well, he was back at the French Lift, so was he.

00:41:20
Speaker 1: She did live there, but she had a very good tournament, and I didn't see him in New York either.

00:41:23
Speaker 2: I do think that that would be that's a perfect example of somebody that I think is she had a really great I think she always had great results at fed Cup, and one of the reasons was that she was she had a different coach, Maresmo and culture. Yeah, totally. So for me, I think that that's a good example of somebody who could benefit by having someone just a little bit more. I don't want to say wiser, just a little bit more understanding of what it takes to be a great player.

00:41:45
Speaker 1: Well, I also think, having sat through a couple of Caroline Garcia matches with her agent who have become friendly with, she looks over at the dad after every point, winner, lose, and you have to start wondering, she's got top five ground.

00:41:59
Speaker 2: Strokes to coach.

00:42:01
Speaker 1: She's a great talent, sir is great hands are amazing. She's an accomplished doubles player. I mean the whole game she's got. Yeah, Like, you can't deny the fact that her game.

00:42:11
Speaker 2: Is just so spectacular. She's very UPTI but I think that's why.

00:42:14
Speaker 1: I think that's why she's so upset. I think she's used to being scrutinized after every single point, looking to her father first.

00:42:19
Speaker 2: Well, I know because I've also been around her in the practice court quite a bit, because I've had my place that have that I've coached, that have practiced with her, and it's he's NonStop. Yeah, like every single point, he's NonStop. And I'm you know, look, he's gotten to where she's gotten, which is, you know, formally in the top ten in the world. But it's time to let go and let somebody take those rights anyway.

00:42:41
Speaker 1: All right, let's end by giving out some sportsmanship awards. Oh okay now, and then men's side, women's side. We can go into a wheelchair, we can go into legends, we can go into doubles, specialists, anything you want, juniors, best sports, worst sports.

00:42:55
Speaker 2: We can call out specifics.

00:42:56
Speaker 1: I want to give a shout out to know vak Djokovic, who a lot of stuff aside, is always good about conceding points. We were talking about conceding points. He's really good about that. If a call is missed, he'll give it to his opponent. I think that's really really excellent. Yeah, and I think it speaks well of his respect, at least for other players.

00:43:15
Speaker 2: Oh listen, when it comes to things like that on the tennis court, there's no doubt the Novak is up top of the list, like he all the I think the great champions are very aware of that. They also know that they're going to win every fucking match period. Go, buddy, here's your one point. That was it? How do you feel that you Yeah, now, I'm joking, but we kind of but but no, no, he's always been great like that. There's no question worst on the men's side. God, I don't even know, you know, there's been some classic situations that double bounces or the old hit the hair on match point of the year so Open?

00:43:54
Speaker 1: Was it.

00:43:56
Speaker 2: Ken Flack that that happened? Oh, going way back, I remember Daniel Nesta, I think hit the net on a follow through in a volley and he it was like match point. It is like a huge point at the US Open, and I think he ended up losing the point and you're losing the match. The women's side best sport well, personally, I have to talk about Sam Stow's the last year in Guangzhou when a ball hit her on the foot and it was going out and it went and hit her on the foot, and I mean, that's still not her point, but the way she handled it, she just kind of walked together chis. It was three hour match was six or five and the third she hit her opponent Para hit a ball that was going out and hit Sam in the foot and she just like walked it the side like no big deal. I'm like, oh my god, to kill myself if that happened to me, you know, And she thankfully ended up winning the match. But like Sam's always been such a great sport, great sport, you know, Ash buddy, like all the Aussies. Let's well, I mean, let's talk about neck. Do you say Nick is a bad smart I think Nick gives respect. No, I think Nick's a great sport. When it comes to like giving points on things like that, like anything like that, he would rather give the point away than That's where he his locker room reputation is good with the guys, which is why the guys. A lot of the guys like him.

00:45:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe Murray certainly his friendship.

00:45:12
Speaker 2: Really, I mean I don't know bad. I mean liesel Hubert takes the cake on probably a couple of things. She had a double bounce at this strain open speaking of not calling it on herself like that was all time against Visnina and Mirza. I mean, people in the locker room are losing their minds.

00:45:26
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the one that traveled around the internet, Ladeevitch, that classic Weazel Huber double bound. It was a totally safer Rova just slams the ball down. Sandy Marza is like losing her by Oh I've heard stories about her.

00:45:38
Speaker 2: Also the French Open where a ball was out and she like totally shot a different mark, and you know it was a huge point. I mean, she will never definitely not go down as a good spot, There's no question about that. Like just the bullshit she does. You know one player that has to be a little bit careful about what I've seen over the last little year. And I really like her as a play and I think she got such a big, bright fruit future. Katie McNally. Like in doubles, she stands in the service line, like in the middle of the court.

00:46:06
Speaker 1: And so.

00:46:09
Speaker 2: There's got your body in the receipt as long as you don't move when the player goes to serve. But then she moves away. But she's still doing these junior things. And you know that's Katie. If you're listening, you don't need to do that stuff. You're a great player. You're a very very good doubles player. Like you're going to win tournaments and Grand Slams in doubles, especially with Coco, the way you are as a team, you don't need to do that stuff. And it's just it's bullshit. She actually Nicole Mellickart hit her with a serf this year or I don't know if it hit her or she went for her on a serve during the Cincinnati tournament. So went for her because she was like, you know, that sort of stuff is just that's that's stuff that you do in juniors, which you shouldn't do in juniors. But yeah, you're got to cut that stuff out. That's the stuff that is not okay. And you in your your reputation is going to precede you, and it's not good.

00:46:58
Speaker 1: I want to end this by saying, as somebody who wants way more sportsman ship awards than I won trophies of tournament, it's.

00:47:03
Speaker 2: Good for you.

00:47:03
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's something, but I do think like I enjoy playing tennis, and I thankfully play with a bunch of people who are like me, twenty years past their prime at best, and their prime wasn't even that good. But everybody's playing for the same reason, which is like, hey, I've just stolen an hour out of my day. I'm somewhere beautiful, I'm on the river yesterday playing at the ninety six Street clay courts, and like, why would I spend the time using it to like lose my mind and cheat somebody?

00:47:29
Speaker 2: You know what? I mean, like that's sort of for me. I would hope that the people out there that listen to our podcasts that play casual tennis don't cheat, Emma, because if you do, you really need to go to a psychologist if you're cheating and a million dollars. Now, if you get yourself in the you can understand how players will cheat if it's going to affect the rest of their lives. I can see that to a certain degree. You know, we've all sort of had those moments. But all the pros out there, all the three that listen to our podcast, if you don't cheat, like it's just your reputation that it will follow you everywhere. I mean, look at me. I'm still talking about players that I played against that have been retired for a number of years, and one of the things that I remember about them is how much they cheated. So don't be that person.

00:48:12
Speaker 3: Ope, Okay, and that's it for this episode of the Racket Magazine podcast.

00:48:20
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. Our host is Renee Stubbs.

00:48:23
Speaker 1: Our co host and producer is me Caitlin Thompson.

00:48:25
Speaker 3: Music by internationally renowned DJ Stretch Armstrong, thanks to tim Or Jerry and then the team at acast, find us at racketmag dot com, slash podcast, and subscribe to us at any of your favorite podcatchers.