#286: Core Values

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Emma

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You're listening to the Beautiful Mess podcast, your cozy comfort listen. And this week, we are

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discussing core values. We'll share our results from the values bridge quiz, as well as our thoughts on

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how defining core values can improve your life. And in our hot take debate, we're discussing separating

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art from the artist and rounding it out with whether or not we refrigerate our butter, all the important

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things that you need to know.

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Elsie

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But before we jump in, Emma bought us matching Verity hats from from Colleenhoover.com, I believe is

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this true. I've been researching best gift I've gotten author websites.

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Emma

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I mean, I like to visit author websites anyway, just to, like, check out news or things that they do, yeah.

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But I'm also trying to make my own author website. It's probably gonna be up by the time you're

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listening to this. Anyway, though I was on Colleen Hoover's website, and I was like, she has merch,

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click, click, click. And I was like, Oh, I have to get Elsie. And I these matching Verity hats because she

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read Verity first. And she was like, you have to read it. It's crazy. And now we're both, like, anticipating

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the movie coming out. We cannot wait. When you told me it was Anne Hathaway, I was like, oh my god.

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Elsie

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I love Anne Hathaway. I love Josh Hartnett. I love Dakota Johns. Yeah, I think they've made I'm just

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gonna call it that. It's going to be a millennial masterpiece. So excited. I am 10 out of 10 excited. And

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also, we have low key tricked our husbands into not really knowing what kind of movie it's gonna be in.

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They're gonna go watch it with us.

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Emma

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Yeah, so it's perfect. My husband thinks it's gonna be like, Gone Girl. And I'm like, Yeah, sort of, I don't

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know. Oh, my god, yeah, that's fine. Just let him think that. Yeah, no, he likes thrillers. I think you'll like

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it. I don't know it's gonna be wild and fun, and I like that. We have matching hats.

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Elsie

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Yeah, it brings me a lot of joy. I'm gonna wear it all summer at the pool.

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Emma

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I can't wait to hear everyone will talk to me, because that's what my life is like. And so I will know every

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old lady who's read Verity, because she will talk to me when she sees my hat. So, yeah, hello. Yes, me

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too. We're in the same club.

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Elsie

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Yeah, I don't know. I hope the movie's fun. The book was so unhinged in all the right places, I thought it

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was like days of our lives in a good way, like I grew up watching Days of Our Lives in my grandfather's

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furniture store and just all of that kind of vibe they I just don't see that guy. I don't read a lot of thrillers at

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all. So I, I was charmed by Verity. I thought it was funny. And I think it's also funny. How many people

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hate it, like, I just think it's all around a fun novelty experience, and I'm gonna wear the hat a lot.

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Emma

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Well you were like, you won't be able to put this book down, and also it's just insane. And I was like,

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okay, and you were correct. So whether you love it or hate it, it is a page turner. Oh yeah.

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Elsie

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Okay. So this week we're talking about core values. I love this subject. So someone on Instagram sent

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me the I think, no, I use my newsletter. It was either the newsletter or Instagram, but someone sent me

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this values bridge quiz. So it's called the values bridge.com right? I believe so. So I did link it in my last

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newsletter. But if you have not taken the quiz, I highly recommend it. And I will say, because with

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quizzes like these, sometimes they try to make you pay at the end and all of that this quiz, you do have

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to enter your email to get the result. Just do it. It's worth it, and you can unsubscribe later if you don't

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want it. I actually haven't gotten, I don't think I've gotten any emails from them. I think I got one initial

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one, okay, and then I haven't seen another one since then. So it's worth it. Yeah, I don't really, um, I

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thought it was a very interesting quiz. I did it on a Saturday morning, and then I immediately made my

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husband do it, and it turned out that he had the same top two values as I had, and then so it gives you

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your four top four values. So our lower two of each of us were different, but our top two were the same.

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And I thought that said a lot about why we're compatible. Yeah, like it made it all make sense to me in a

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way that I hadn't, hadn't expected before. And we're also both Scorpios, and we're also both INFJs, but

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we're actually not very alike, like, personality wise.

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Emma

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Yeah, it's interesting. It's weird, right? Yeah, you guys are kind of weird. Yeah, I've always said that.

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Elsie

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No. Anyway, what did you think your values would be like before you took the quiz? When you just

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know, because I had tried to do this before. My friend had been like, just look up a list of values and

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then just pick out which ones are your top values. And I had kind of listened to other people talk about

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it, and I kind of tried to do it, but I had a hard time picking the top ones, because it just felt like there

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were so many important things on the list.

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Emma

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Yeah, I think just looking at a list of values that's difficult, because it's almost like it forces you to say no

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to things that are good, yeah, but they might not be your values, and saying no to them doesn't mean

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that you think they're bad, but you can't value everything that would be impossible, so some things are

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going to rise to rise to the list. So, yeah, I think a quiz is more helpful rather than looking but I don't

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know you do whatever you want, but what were your top ones? Okay? Because I actually don't even

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know. We haven't really talked about this.

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Elsie

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Yeah, I'm excited to read it. I have them written in my notes app. So what I thought mine would be is

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career and, like, beauty and esthetics. I knew it would be something like that. And then I thought maybe

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something was like propulsion and goals, like, something about, like, sort of like motivation. And, you

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know, because I don't, I don't really like to be bored. So that was my predictions. And I was kind of

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nailing it. So here are my Oh, and I knew, I also knew what mine wouldn't be. And this is a little weird.

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This is a little weird talk about, but I think this is kind of what's interesting about it is that when you have

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things that are lower on the list, it doesn't mean they're unimportant to you. It just means it's not one of

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your core values. Yeah? You know what I mean? Like, there are many things in life. So I knew that my

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romantic partner would not be the center of my universe, yeah. And the reason I knew that is because

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when I was in my 20s, I dated a couple of people who I felt like, wanted to make me the center of their

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universe, and I hated it, yeah, like, I was I just, like, had this, like, immediately, no reaction to it. And I,

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like, I didn't know that about myself until I experienced it, but then it was, like, very strong. And it was

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like, I actually don't like that, and I also don't want that kind of pressure on me to make my partner the

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center of my universe. And the same thing with parenting, I knew that. I knew that being a mom was not

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a big is not a big part of my identity, and it never has been, even in the years when we first adopted,

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when I I did feel like it was like a my Social Media identity for a little while, because I was like posting

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about adoption and the kids, and for a little while that felt like it was important or worth it to me, and

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then I changed my mind, but, yeah, but I never felt like in my soul, like being a mom was like, I don't

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know. I guess it feels wrong to say that, because being a mom is so important to me, but I knew that it

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wasn't. I knew that I wasn't going to be one of those people who, when my kids moved out, I didn't

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know what to do. Yeah? Like, I knew I was always going to know what to do.

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Emma

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I mean, it's similar to saying, you know, your romantic partner isn't the center of your universe. I don't

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feel like you saying that makes me feel like you don't like Jeremy, yeah, and you're not happy in your

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marriage. Like, no, I just think you're like, Oh, that's not the thing that I like making a ton of goals

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around, and that I think about constantly, and that I shape my life around. It's like, he's my family, he's

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my partner. But, you know, there you go. Like, I don't know, that's fine. I think a lot of people feel that

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way about their kids, and then the world kind of sometimes, especially women, makes them feel like,

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no, they should be the whole thing. That's it. You're a mom. That's your whole identity now. And it's like,

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well, you might not feel that way, and that is fine, yeah? Because we don't usually say that to men, so I

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don't know why we do to women. So you know, yeah, bit of a double standard.

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Elsie

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Yeah. Okay, so here is what the quiz gave me, number one, and it gives you like this authenticity gap,

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which means like, how close. So there's a part of the quiz where you're putting like your ideal life, and

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there's a part of the quiz where you're answering questions about your real everyday life right now and

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so on. These first two, the difference between my ideal life and my real life are exactly the same.

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They're like the there is no gap, which is cool. So my first one is work centrism, which means it says it's

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deeper than I love work. It is more like working makes me feel like myself and working shapes my life.

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And I do identify that as true. I think when I was growing up, I did not expect to be that kind of person.

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It's not how I was, like taught to be. It's it is how I was born. It's like something inside of me that, no, we

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were not taught to be workaholics. Definitely not. It wasn't a big, yeah, in our family, I don't even

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consider myself a workaholic. I feel like, because I feel like that's like a negative thing of like, saying you

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have, like, an addiction. I don't think I have an addiction. I think I have, like, a deep love for it. You know

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what I mean? Like, I can take the day off. Yeah? You know what I mean? Mean, like, I do take

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Christmas week off, like, it's, yeah, okay, my second one was achievement, and it means you're fueled

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by the pursuit of excellence, or the pursuit of, like, a specific, you know, financial or recognition

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achievement. So it can be like, I want this job. It can be like, I want this award. I want people to see me

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in this way, you know, something like that, or it can just be I want to know that I'm the best I can be at

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what I'm doing, which is something that I feel very deeply. I want to be the best at what I'm trying to do.

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And then my third one is called beholderism, which I thought was kind of a fun word, and it's basically

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an is it asks as the esthete esthete esthetic, as it's like a person who is an esthetic has an esthetic

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mind, yeah. Okay, so it's a yearning to be immersed in sensor experiences art and beauty, I knew I was

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going to have something like that because the idea of my physical surroundings reflecting my inner

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world has been important to me since childhood, and even like in childhood, in high school, I

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redecorated my room constantly. So I knew that there was going to be something there to do with that.

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And there's no surprise there, like and, and I think it's good that in this test it try it like, specifically tries

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to say like, it doesn't mean you're like, shallow it, you know what I mean? Because I feel like there is,

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there's definitely judgment around like people who want everything to be beautiful, like that can be seen

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as a shallow quality.

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Emma

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Unless you're staying at their house and you're just like, so happy while you're there, then all of a

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sudden, you're like, Wait a second. Yeah. I like this. Yeah.

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Elsie

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I think if you would hold judgment and you just let it be something that is important internally. Then it

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makes it makes perfect sense, like I just I love beautiful things. And then my fourth one is called scope,

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which is basically the same thing as being the Enneagram seven, which is what I am. It means I want a

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big life. I want to try everything, if I see some, if I see a hobby or a book or I will just start reading it that

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day. Like always, I'm just a grabber of life. I'm grabber of experiences. And that's always been true, too.

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Do you think those like seem right?

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Emma

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Yeah, yeah.

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Elsie

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Okay, so I want to hear yours.

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Emma

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That makes sense to me. Mine were. I just took screenshots. My number one is the same as yours,

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which was work centrism, which was not surprising at all, because if you had asked me, What's your

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number one, I'd be like, it's gonna be something about career. Or, I think for me, though, because you

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had one, what was your third one? Or second one had to do with kind of achievement? Yeah,

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achieving. I don't have that one on my list because I actually don't think mine has to do. I'm just an

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extremely insular person, so I kind of, like, I could be on a desert island there's no other human being

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around, and I would still be working quote on I would still be, like, making stuff that means something to

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me, like, and there's really no chance of recognition or achievement that others see, and I would still do

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something, because that's, yeah, it's just something built in me. So she has a little factory inside that

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brain, yeah, and it just is gonna keep going till I die. And then my second one was place. Oh,

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interesting. Tell me about that. Yeah. So I didn't like, I feel like you have, like, the description of each

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one, but for me, especially as I was taking the quiz, it was very much like, Oh, I'm living exactly where I

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want to be living, and I don't want to move. I would have thought to put this on my list of values. But

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anytime my husband has brought up moving, or even, like, doing an extended time in another area. I'm

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always kind of like, I don't want to do that. Like, my immediate reaction on the inside is, I don't want to

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do that. I want to be right here. So I'll also say I know that my values have changed over the course of

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my life. Yeah, and they'll probably change again, and I'm super open to that too, because, like, I loved

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moving to LA when I did, and I think that was the perfect thing for me to do at that age, and I have no

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regrets about it. You were so brave. It was so much fun. And I kind of could see me moving again

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someday. But I think right now, for what I'm doing in my life, it feels really important to me to live in

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Springfield, Missouri, where I live. My whole family's here, the cost of living is very low. So that gives

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me a lot of flexibility in a bunch of ways. And I think, too, I just feel a lot of comfort feeling like I can

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navigate my area very easily. Like, you know, whenever you move to like a foreign country, you don't

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speak the language as well, or maybe at all. That's a whole thing. Like, I don't want to do any of that.

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I'm again. An era where I'm like, No, I really want to be exactly where I am. And I really, like, I don't

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even want to move out of my house. I really want to live in my house until it feels like we can't navigate

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stairs as easily anymore, like, so probably, like, mid to late 16 time. Yeah. Anyway, so place is my

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second one. My third one is family centrism. I think in some ways, I was born to, like, want to be a

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mom, and I have that thing in me. So there you go.

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Elsie

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I can see that, like, for example, yesterday Emma, or the day before yesterday, the day before Emma

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took lunch to both my kids at school. She does that kind of thing all the time. She really is, like, the

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ultimate aunt. And she does, like, put her family at the tippy top of her priority list.

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Emma

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Yeah, our grandma Norma is like that too, who we always talk about. And I get it like, I feel like there's

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some things about her that I don't get Yeah, and but that one, I'm like, yep, same Grandma, I see you. I

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feel exactly like you. There's just something in me that's like, this is a part of my life. I see my family. I

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hang out with my family. I do things with my family. It's not even that important to me what we're doing.

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I'm more interested in, like, what are you want to play checkers or grandma? You want to go tier that

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you know, like, I just family's definitely always been big on my list, but I think in this era, it's like, even

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bigger, in part because my I have kids now, so anyway, and then my fourth one was also beholderism,

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which that one actually was the one that surprised me, because I do love beautiful things, but I think

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growing up being your sister like you really love beautiful things, and you do. It's not a competition, but

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you do a better job curating a beautiful life. I'm crazy. You have an amazing closet. Your house is like,

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wild, like, if I compare myself to other friends of mine, I have, like, a very esthetic life, but I've always

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compared myself to you a little bit because you're my sister and I know you and you're my best friend.

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So I think I don't think of myself as very esthetic. I actually think of myself as, like, not that into things

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because I'm not on your level.

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Elsie

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It can mean different things. It can mean that you're because you're a person who buys a lot of coffee

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table books, you're a person who loves museums. Like, I think it includes all those things too. Like, if

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you want to watch films because they're beautiful and not just because of the story, you know, it

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includes all those things.

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Emma

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I've always had a closet that I was interested in, and I've always, you know, decorated my house like,

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I've always been like that, just not at the same rate as you. And I think also, like, you're a bit of a

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maximalist and I'm more of a minimalist, but just because you're a minimalist doesn't mean you don't

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care about esthetics. Yeah, it's just a different thing. So anyway, so, yeah, that was probably the one on

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my list that surprised me. But I was like, Yeah, I do feel that, and I think that's accurate, yeah, so, and

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mine kind of is. It gives you this almost like diagnosis, I would describe this, and it was like, bad news,

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work, centrism and family centrism are really tough when you have little kids. And based on your

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survey, we feel like you might have little kids, like, it was like, Ah, yes, you picked up on that. Yeah, the

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survey got me because yeah, I was like, yeah, probably the most challenging time in an era, yeah, of

00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:29.000
my life. It's kind of challenging for those two values and yeah, and I actually think Beholder ism there is

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like, a piece of like, like I was talking about, if you guys remember, at Halloween and Christmas this

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year, I didn't decorate on the level that I normally would, because my kid gets into everything. He's just

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at an age where it's not really safe. It's a lot of choking hazards. Yeah. So, you know, I think that there's

00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:33.000
a little bit there that's also like, oh, some of my values are a little like, squirrely right now, but it's just a

00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:34.000
little era. It's not really like a big deal. It's just how it is, like, this year.

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Elsie

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Yeah, you just have some things on hold for one to two years, yeah, and they'll be right back.

00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:37.000
Emma

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Yeah. And I'm so tired of bringing it up to be honest. Yeah, here I am. This is it so.

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Elsie

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Oh, okay, so when you did the results, so it sounds like you agreed with them, did it change anything

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about how you see yourself or how you would prioritize your life?

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Emma

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It made me feel like better about leaning into the beholderism stuff, not because I've really ever thought

00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:44.000
of it as shallow to care about your house or your clothes or just beautiful things. I don't really feel that

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way. I think in part, because we grew up like with such creativity being a value from our parents, that I

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just view art as like, important, yeah, but I did. It made me feel like, okay, you should decorate more as

00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:47.000
you can safely for your kid. That sounds great. You should you like that, you value it. You should do

00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:48.000
that. You don't need to feel any kind of weirdness about it. And then I also that, just as odd as it sounds,

00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:49.000
just the test being like, hey, you have these two values, work, centrism and family centrism. And it

00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:50.000
sounds like they're at a little bit at odds right now. I. Just felt very seen, and just like, oh, Thanks for

00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:51.000
seeing me. Yeah, it, yeah, that's it, and doing my best with it.

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Elsie

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Yeah, you'll get through it. It's like a tunnel.

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Emma

00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:55.000
Yeah. Did anything about yours make you change?

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Elsie

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I felt very validated by it, and I, I like the idea, I've always had kind of a defensive view of 90s movies,

00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:58.000
the portrayal of, like, the workaholic, you know, and like, yeah, the missing the baseball games and the,

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you know, that sort of thing. Since I've been an adult, I've always been kind of, like, really, like, really,

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you know what I mean? Because I think that you can love being a parent and also love your work, yes,

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kind of more than anything in the world, and that that's how I feel. So it made me feel like the way that I

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am isn't wrong, it's just true, and that it's okay, you know, to like, like, caring about my paint colors,

00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:03.000
yeah, like, if I get a wrong paint color on the wall, I'm I'm gonna change it. I'm not gonna just accept it

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and leave it. I'm going to change it. And if I have, like, you know, we talked about in the previous

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episode, if I have like, a year when I'm not feeling fulfilled in my career, then that probably means I'm

00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:06.000
going to be not feeling fulfilled in my whole life during that season, and that I'm going to have to make

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adjustments and that so that it just kind of made everything make a little bit more sense. And I felt like I

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can sort of like, accept these things and build off of them. So when you do your values for all our

00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.000
listeners, try to do that. Try to, like, just accept, you know what I mean? Like, accept some parts of

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yourself that maybe you know it wasn't like how you were taught as a child, or, like, I was always taught

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like you, like your family, family over everything. You know what I mean, which I still think is true to an

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extent. But like, this is just a different way of looking at it that I also think is valid. So, yeah, I really liked

00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:13.000
it, and it made me feel like, moving forward, okay, would you do any, like, would you tweak anything

00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:14.000
moving forward? I feel like I would kind of feel more confident about the fact that I do just, just love

00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:15.000
working it is like a major priority in my life, I feel like I can just like, own it a little bit more.

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Emma

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Yeah, no, I think that's good. Yeah, no, I don't have any I'm just kind of like, well, my kid will go back to

00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:18.000
daycare, pre K at some point, and that'll help with some of my things being at odds. Yeah. And also,

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he'll get bigger, and choking hazards won't be as big of an issue, and that'll be cool, yeah, really

00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:20.000
decorating for, you know, just things that I'd like to do in our home that I just have. I even, like, want to

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get some, like, built in Shelves, like, I have a couple spots, but I'm not going to right now, he takes a

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nap every day, and he takes a long nap, and I'm just not, I'm not comfortable with someone being

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hammering, you know, and so I really just can't have anyone do work in our house right now. It doesn't.

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It wouldn't make sense. It would be impossible for them to keep a proper schedule. It wouldn't be fair to

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anyone involved. So I'm not doing that right now, but I know I will in the future, and I really don't mind

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waiting, because in the meantime, I'm like, really killing it on my family centrism, yeah, value, so it's

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great.

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Elsie

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I love it.

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Emma

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All right. Well, should we do a hot take debate?

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Elsie

00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:33.000
Yeah, I like this. I like this one. I think it is pretty hot, pretty burning hot. Okay, so the hot take of the

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week is, I can't separate art from the artist. Example, Michael Jackson, so I think separating art from the

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artist is like such an interesting subject. There's so many sides to it. It's something that I often hear

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people fighting online about, and I have my own little mental roundabouts going going around and

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around in my mind. I just think it's such a fascinating subject. So yeah, I have like a three point sermon

00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:38.000
prepared. What about you?

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Emma

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Yeah, I'm also just, like, not super online anymore in social media ways, as people know. So sometimes

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I'm like, disconnected from how people feel about it. Now, you know, anyway, but have you ever had

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like, a someone whose personal life, like, or an action they did or something gave you the ick, so much

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that sort of like ruined their art for you. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I think, yeah. Because that's sort of what I

00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:44.000
think about with this hot take, is I'm like, I've never felt like, Oh, I've got to boycott this art because this

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person turned out to be a dirt bag or, you know, a criminal. I've never really felt on that level, but I have

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felt like, Oh, now when I watch this movie and I see this person, all I think about is this thing that they

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did, and it makes it this movie is not that fun to watch anymore for me, you know, like I have. That

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feeling, and it's a bummer if it's like a movie you really like, or a song you really loved, or whatever,

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because it's like, oh, now I am thinking about this thing they did that makes me very sad or kind of

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angry, or, you know, whatever, yeah, so, yeah, yeah. But as far as the boycotting, I've never really felt

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that. Personally, I kind of think art can exist, and people can exist. And if people commit crimes, they

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should, you know, justice should happen. And their art can still be out there, and people can look at it or

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listen to it or whatever. Like, I have no problem with people still enjoying, like, Michael Jackson's music.

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Doesn't bother me. If you turn it on, I'm not going to be like, did you know, though? Yeah, I don't care on

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that level. But obviously I think artists are people, and they should be held to account for their actions if

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we're able to. Sometimes people pass away, whatever.

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Elsie

00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:58.000
Yeah, that's also another interesting point, is that I do think it makes a difference if they're living or

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dead. And anyway, okay, so first of all, my main caveat is, I just want to say that's fair. However you feel

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is fair. If someone's art has been ruined for you because they did a terrible thing, that's fine. I think that

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that's fair. I think it does suck. I have compassion for it. I think it makes sense, and I wish it didn't

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happen, but as a history enthusiast, I know that it does. It's yeah, it's common. Okay, my little three

00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:03.000
pointers. So first of all, if you think you can't separate the art from the artist, I promise you, you already

00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:04.000
do. You just don't know it, because all the history are good things and good inventions, useful things,

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innovations, beautiful art made by terrible people like that is a tale as old as time, like it just is, and I

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think that it only occasionally gets brought up or remembered when it comes to dead people. You know,

00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:07.000
yeah. And another thing that one of my friends brought up that I don't know I think about it all the time,

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is that I do, I do think that sometimes women are more apt to try to, like, cancel other women that, but

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we sort of, like, accept other like, I think that, well, maybe not women, but I think people in general are

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sometimes accepting, like, men doing terrible things a little bit more than women doing terrible things.

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Emma

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I think women generally try to cancel more than men try to cancel. Yeah, we try to cancel men and

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women are not soft on our canceling. That's us women. We like to cancel. And I feel like men just don't

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do it as much generally, or at least they don't talk about it on the internet.

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Elsie

00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:16.000
Yeah, that's actually a good point. But also I'm mostly following women, but, yeah, but I still think it's

00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.000
true.

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Emma

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Well, I just, I don't know if it can be true in part, because, I think, and this is including history, there's so

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much more art and things made by men, because for a long time, that's the only people who are

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allowed to do it anyway, and, you know, so there's just a lot more men to cancel, just just numbers wise,

00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:22.000
you know, quantity wise stats like this. You know, I'm not trying to be like men are worse than women.

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That's not my point. It's just sheer numbers. As far as who's made the most art leading up to now,

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because who is able to who had rights, who had time, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, I kind of feel like

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there's just more men to cancel. So I don't necessarily think it is directed more at women. I think it's, it

00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:26.000
seems to me, it's directed more men. But it might just be a numbers thing.

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Elsie

00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:28.000
So I'm gonna take that back. I just think that, yeah, like, maybe women are pressuring ourselves, slash

00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:29.000
each other, to be able to correct everything that's wrong in the world. And, you know, other people,

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mostly men, are, like, just not worried about it. And that makes me sad. Also, I think there's like, a this,

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Michael Jackson is a good is a good one for this. But I also think JK Rowling kind of comes into it, but

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like the idea of, like, are we canceling the artist, or are we canceling the art, or and are we also

00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:33.000
canceling the fans? Are we also mad at the fans? You know what I mean? It's like, there's lots of layers

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to it. And I think that deciding within yourself, like, what, you know, what the real problem is, I think is

00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:35.000
good for those things, and I think is helpful because it's not clean and it's not perfect, and like, yeah,

00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:36.000
people can do terrible things that ruin beautiful things for you in your heart, and then you feel like it

00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.000
should ruin it in everyone's heart, and maybe it doesn't.

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Emma

00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:39.000
But you're not in charge of other people, right? You're in charge of your own heart. Yeah, I feel like, if

00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:40.000
you're like, if you're at Halloween and you see someone doing the thriller dance. And you're like, you

00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:41.000
support child molestation. It's like, Whoa, dude. That's too much. But if you hear about an artist who's

00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:42.000
like, done something like that, and you're like, they don't need to stay on trial because I like their music.

00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:43.000
Whoa, dude. That's not okay either. It's just like, yeah, who needs to go on trial? The artist, the person

00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:44.000
who broke a law or did a thing that we don't agree with as a society, the art just exists, though, and

00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:45.000
people can like it, people can also not like it. Whatever you're in charge of how you feel, yeah, and if for

00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:46.000
you, it's ruined. That sucks, and I'm sorry, and I have things like that, and it's a bummer. But other

00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:47.000
people might not feel that way, and they're in charge of their own heart, so you don't need to try to

00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:48.000
change them. That's just kind of silly. It's a little controlling, I think.

00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.000
Elsie

00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:50.000
It can be okay. And then this is the one that I've thought about the most, because when it comes to my

00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:51.000
kids, one of the best pieces of advice that my therapist ever gave me, we have, like, a close family

00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:52.000
member who has a couple times, like, crossed a line of teaching things to my kids that were offensive to

00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:53.000
me and that we had to, like, sort of, like, sort that out together with, you know, me and the adult, and

00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.000
then also with the talking to the kids and making sure everything was cool and it, yeah, my therapist

00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:55.000
advice was that letting them hear opinions that are offensive does prepare them for life, yeah, and that,

00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:56.000
like, even though it's like, you wish it didn't happen and you wish it wasn't true, it's not inherently bad for

00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:57.000
them to, like, hear us explain why we don't agree with something. And in some ways, it can be, like, a

00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.000
good education for them. So yeah, for us personally, when our daughter read the Harry Potter books,

00:05:58.000 --> 00:05:59.000
we did talk about the tweets, and it was a good conversation, and she understood, and she I think she

00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:00.000
holds both things in her mind now, and I think it's still her favorite books that she loved reading. But also

00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.000
I do she's not gonna go to school and say that JK, Rowling's her favorite celebrity or a great role model.

00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.000
Emma

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.000
Or dress up like her for Halloween and not expect someone to say something.

00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:04.000
Elsie

00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:05.000
Yeah I think it's okay that, that there's both things in there, and yeah, for us, for our decision, I felt like,

00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.000
I'm glad that she still read the books, because they're books, and I think that books are good for

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:07.000
children, and I don't think the art is harming her, but I do understand when people are like, I don't want

00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.000
to give my money so I get the whole spectrum of it.

00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.000
Emma

00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:10.000
Your money is like your heart, you get to decide how to spend your own you don't necessarily get to

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:11.000
decide how other people spend theirs.

00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.000
Elsie

00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.000
So, yeah, yeah, but yeah, the last thing I'll say about it is, when I was studying art history for my novel,

00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:14.000
a lot of the artists that are in the novel and that I studied about are still, like, very famous today, like

00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:15.000
Picasso and Salvador Dali and some other people, but those are like the main word, like, super famous

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:16.000
today. And I don't know, I just think it's like, so interesting and also strange how, like, even just 50 years

00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:17.000
in the future, people end up knowing one thing about these famous people, big name, like most famous

00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:18.000
artists in the world, and most people can name one fact about them. So I think, just like no one is really

00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:19.000
to blame for, like, not canceling. Yeah, my personal opinion is that you don't have to cancel art. I just

00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:20.000
think that shouldn't be on us. But I think that if something gives you the ick and changes how you feel

00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:21.000
about it, that's, that's, that can be true too. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, let us know what you think. I think

00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:22.000
it's, I think this is one of the most interesting subjects that I like hearing people debate it. I think there

00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:23.000
are a lot of sides to it.

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Emma

00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:25.000
Oh, yeah. And I think too, like our hot take here has included a very kind of clear cut artist, Michael

00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:26.000
Jackson, as far as what offense. But there's also a lot of other times where you're like, oh, this famous

00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:27.000
actor said something kind of insensitive. That wasn't that, you know, maybe they're not a bad words,

00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:28.000
but they said something kind of insensitive, and now I really don't like their movies, and it's like, okay,

00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:29.000
yeah, that's up to you, but maybe someone else just wants to watch their movies and be like, Wow,

00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:30.000
they're a great action hero, and I don't want to hear what they have to say politically. And I'm separating

00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.000
the two, you know, like, I think that's totally fine. Like, whatever.

00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:32.000
Elsie

00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:33.000
Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think that we do, we do separate art from artists all the time. We just don't

00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:34.000
realize it, because I don't know. I think it's like a modern idea that we have to have a moral judgment on

00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:35.000
every single artist. I don't personally think that's our responsibility. I. I just think it's like too much to

00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:36.000
carry. And I don't know, I kind of just want to let art be art. And honestly, historical art gets it, gets that

00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:37.000
free pass because no one knows. So, yeah, anyway, fun topic. But yeah, I love the hot takes. Please

00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:38.000
keep sending them a podcast at a beautiful mess, calm anytime you want. Okay, so we have a listener

00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:39.000
question, and is, do you keep your butter on the fridge or in the counter? And I just, I just had to include

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this, because I think that is worth talking about. It is, what do you think?

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Emma

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So we do keep bars in the fridge all the time, yeah, all the time, always. And it's kind of silly, really,

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because I should get a butter dish that you where you can have it sitting out on the counter and have it

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covered, because it is annoying when you're trying to make toast and you want to spread some butter

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and it's completely hard, and it's like, you have to remember to get the toast out of the toaster right

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away, put the hard butter on it, let it melt a little bit, then spread it out. And it's like, this is kind of

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ridiculous, but I think just, I don't know, my little brain is, like, it's dairy. It goes in the fridge.

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Elsie

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It's how we were raised. But I will say now I have both. So I have the compartment in the fridge with all

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the butter for when we make cookies full of butter. Well, when I make cookies, I'll set it out, yeah, but

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just having it out all the time is kind of smart. So I have this little covered dish that's meant for butter,

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and there's always butter in it. So we always have soft butter, and I just put in half a stick at a time when

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it gets kind of low. So there's always soft butter. Get you should get one. You should try it. I should, I

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recommend it. If anyone's just you weren't raised that way. I wasn't either, or you just haven't tried it.

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Like, there is nothing wrong with leaving butter on your counter for weeks. It doesn't go bad. Nothing

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happens, and it's fine. And for us, we eat enough of it that it it's just fine.

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Emma

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It's not gonna be out that long anyway. Yeah, totally, I'm gonna see it. I'll be like, Oh yeah, that butter is

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out. It better make some toast.

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Elsie

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It's really nice. Like, yeah, you don't want to have cold butter.

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Emma

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Let me ask you this, though, in the summer, do you feel like it ever gets too melty? Does it start to get

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liquidy ever?

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Elsie

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No. Our house doesn't get hot to that extent, air conditioning.

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Emma

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I don't feel like mine does. But I just wondered. Okay, well, that was a pretty pressing question. So let

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us know when you write us where you're at with the butter situation, and now it's time for a joke or a fact

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or a meditation with Nova.

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Elsie

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Hey, Nova, what do you have for us this week?

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Nova

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I have a good fact.

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Elsie

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A good fact. Okay, I'm so excited.

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Nova

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Did you know that Abraham Lincoln was known for his wrestling because out of the 300 times he did it,

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he only lost once.

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Elsie

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Whoa, that is pretty cool. So he was really good at wrestling.

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Nova

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Yeah.

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Elsie

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Wow. Okay, well, that changes everything I know about Abraham Lincoln, thank you for sharing.

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Nova

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You're welcome.

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Elsie

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Have a good week.

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Nova

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Have a good week. Bye.

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Elsie

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Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back next week with our comfort re watch episode of the

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1995 classic Empire Records. Email us anytime at podcast@beautifulmess.com.