Life Updates + Life Skills (for kids!) Ep 443

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long.

00:00:33
Speaker 1: Term career goals.

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Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.

00:00:41
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.

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Speaker 2: This episode is airing in late January of twenty twenty six, so fun fact, this is actually the first episode that we have recorded.

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Speaker 1: Together in the new year.

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Speaker 2: Sarah and I tend to work ahead a little bit in order to not have disasters strike, so we have to work more ahead before the holidays. So we're going to be talking today about some life updates, and then with that some life skills that we think are important for young people kids to learn, and talking a little bit about when we may have learned some of them ourselves. This was inspired by a Patreon community member's post about little tutorials she was doing with her children.

00:01:25
Speaker 1: We were really excited about that.

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Speaker 2: But speaking of that, Sarah, our Patreon community, it really has lit up over the last month.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it's a combination of people being so excited to do a lot of planning with us with the new year, like, or if it's sort of a pushback to people thinking, Okay, I want connection and I want a community, but I am tired of finding that community on various social media platforms, which then distract me and have me doing things I didn't.

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Speaker 4: Wish to be doing.

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Speaker 3: But whatever it is, it's been really great because there's just been so much like back and forth and support that we're posting, and we just had a really fun live which we do every single month, so Yeah, and then we thought that it might be really fun to come up with a little bit of a more interactive component this year.

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Speaker 4: So we've started.

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Speaker 3: Issuing weekly challenges that are totally optional but just like things for people to try to accomplish and report back on. And like the first week we had people make sure that they had two things that were fun scheduled for themselves within the next month, and then this prior week we were doing like a time tracking challenge that went along with one of Laura's time tracking challenges. So things like that, things that will just be fun and enhance your life. But for some people they want that little extra layer of accountability and we are happy to provide that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, we had about one hundred new members over the last month, which is incredibly exciting to see people bringing new ideas, new energy.

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Speaker 1: We've had a couple of really good threads.

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Speaker 2: I mean, one that got a lot of people weighing in was on selective eating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we had many many talents on that one, right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean these challenges that we have, we feel so alone sometimes and then we realize, oh my gosh, there are so many other people in the same position. I mean, the value of our community is like ten percent us and ninety percent the other people in that community. So when you have a question like selective eating or a struggle that you're going through, it is very common for other people to be like, oh, me too, and this is what helped, and this is what didn't help, and don't beat yourself up and et cetera. So yeah, that's one great example, but probably many many others out there like it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know some members of our community have connected outside of the community, people are forming like accountability partnerships. Sarah had us all posting a quirky goal. That thread got about eighty plus comments. I believe we had some quirky goals in the group.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, people.

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Speaker 3: I mean I feel like I set my own quirky goals, so it was really really fun to see some other people's. I don't know if they're going to out anybody's quirky goal, because that is one thing about our community is we try to keep things. People see it as a safe space, so we're never going to post anything publicly or without anonymity.

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Speaker 4: But for people that again kind of.

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Speaker 3: Want that playground to play around with without the risk of things being more popularly spread like maybe they might be on other platforms, it's great for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, so come join us. It's the best of both worlds.

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Speaker 2: Pod over at Patreon and membership is nine dollars a month, and for that we are doing multiple threads per week in our forum where people are discussing. We do the monthly meetups by Zoom that are a lot of fun and are always recorded afterwards, so hopefully some people will consider joining us there.

00:04:35
Speaker 1: So moving into our life updates portion of this episode.

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Speaker 2: So Sarah the other day texted me I guess randomly on a Friday that she was like, I'm in a different location working, so this was kind of exciting, Sarah, what's changed with your work schedule?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, actually send a picture of the actual office, like the place where I sit and do my notes between patients, because it was really pretty. I mean, to be fair, I'm not sure you have Well, you have seen my office in person once, so you do have a basis for comparison. Fun fact, Laura has walked the halls of my usual patient practice location at least once. But yeah, the opportunity came about because one of my colleagues, I think, is actually possibly moving towards more of a leadership position. And our main location is in Hollywood, and that's where I've been based forever, the only place I've ever seen patients since starting twelve years ago at the hospital system where I work. But we actually have a number of other locations, and so they said, oh, this person wants to come to Hollywood a little more often, anybody want to swap and take her day in this other office.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, you know what.

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Speaker 3: It's equidistance the house, and I've always heard rumors about how quiet it feels and how it's like a little bit calmer, like it's not like the volumes any less. We still see the same number of patients, but there's something about it that just lacks the hustle and bustle of the main site. And I got to say they were totally right. So I've only gone once so far, but it was a lovely day for two reasons. Number One, I really did notice the quietness, and it's funny because I don't think I noticed the buzz that's around until it was gone. But it was very refreshing. But number two, two of our younger members of the team, two of the doctors that have joined in the last couple of years. I don't get to see them very often as they're at that location, and honestly, it felt like a little party and I just think it'll be a great place to spend Fridays.

00:06:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, Sarah has been doing ongoing job crafting over the years. It's always fun to see how she thinks about trying new things and switching things up, even within the same career. So probably other people out there who may have a different location they could work sometimes if you work for an organization that is in multiple locations.

00:06:42
Speaker 1: So something to think about as a way to switch things up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you had a lot more exciting things going on than simply doing the same job that you were doing before in a different office you went on. First of all, I have to say you had some teasers about this trip, like you were like, oh, you know, we're going somewhere and it might be big. Would you like to share with our listeners where you guys did head for Christmas Break twenty five, twenty twenty six.

00:07:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, so my whole family, all seven of us, went to Ecuador and the Galapagos. So this is a trip that had been on my list of one hundred dreams. I wanted to see the Galapagos Islands, of course, famous islands in the Pacific, because Charles Darwin was there in eighteen thirty five and noticed how the different animals were suited to their environment, and over the years this turned into the theory of natural selection that, of course he is well known for, but that all germinated while he was there in the Galapagos touring around.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to go see it.

00:07:41
Speaker 2: The wildlife there is very different than wildlife elsewhere because it is so isolated. So we went, but of course part of it being so isolated, it is in fact isolated. It took quite a bit of effort to get there. We flew through Miami to Quito, Ecuador. Keito is actually a pretty big city. It wasn't really on my radar, but it's like three million people in the Andes, so it's high up. We were there for two nights at the start. During the day, the first day we were there, we went on a tour out to see the cloud forest that is nearby and saw a lot of hummingbirds and butterflies, went on a little hike to it a chocolate factory kind of thing that was a bit touristy, but anyway, saw some really cool things. And then the next day we flew to the Galopagos Islands. We had a tour group there. It was another It was a family tour group, like everyone had to have kids with them in order to go on out, which was good because there's another family that had a six year old. The other family that was on it had three kids who were within a short distance of Alex's age, so that was kind of cool too. But we went to San Cristobal Islands for a few days, did a lot of snorkeling, seeing wildlife. We went to Santa Cruz Island then saw more wildlife around there, the sea lions, the iguanas, sharks, blue footed boobies.

00:09:06
Speaker 4: Yes, you guys.

00:09:07
Speaker 3: She just like texts me casually like, hey, look, I saw a blue footed booby. I mean, like, I don't know, just seeing that just come across a phone screen, like it was just like, you know, wandering around was pretty magical.

00:09:17
Speaker 4: I meaneah, I mean.

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Speaker 1: Their feet really are blue. They are very very blue. I mean I see why they are called that.

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Speaker 2: And then of course the giant tortoises are amazing, and I can see be right by them in a way that you can't with other wildlife. I mean, obviously there are rules about you can't get too close to them, but most other big wildlife is either scared of you or you are scared of it, like there's some reaction between the two of you.

00:09:41
Speaker 1: But turtles are slow, so it doesn't really.

00:09:45
Speaker 2: Happen that you would have any change in the animals necessarily behavior near you. And so you could be so close and observing them in a way that's not possible elsewhere.

00:09:54
Speaker 4: Super cool.

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Speaker 3: The wildlife had to be a highlight. I have a question, just circling back, how did you guys choose this other than it being on your list? Like what made you feel like now we're ready for this trip and remind everybody how old the age span of everybody is.

00:10:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, so my five kids are eighteen to six. We are starting to get somewhat limited of when we can travel because a college spring break is not necessarily the same as the public schools spring break. People like to do stuff like internships or summer programs when they get to be older teenagers, and that means you don't know what dates they're going to be available for trips that are hard to plan if you don't plan far ahead. We had not planned our Christmas break until about September going into October, and we're honestly not finding a whole lot of stuff available. I mean, we had looked into going to Costa Rica, which is another place with unique wildlife and both the rainforest and water kind of wildlife, and I would love to go to Costa Rica sometime, but most of the nice places were booked up and it had been four months. We did some searching, like family travel.

00:11:09
Speaker 1: You see what was coming up.

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Speaker 2: Normally, when a lot of people to do the Galapagos, they go on one of these national geographic cruises, and that is certainly one way to see the islands is circling the islands in a boat. I'm not opposed to that. I don't really like boats all that much. But it was not available either. I mean, you know, you're trying to book in October for seven people in two months, like you just can't get anything.

00:11:29
Speaker 1: But this tour through g Adventures is the company.

00:11:34
Speaker 2: It was open to children ages six and up, and so Henry was turning six in fact, like when we were going on this trip, and since you had to have a kid, I thought that it would be more doable as a group tour because it would be other people with families, like they wouldn't view us as a total freak show. And they had the itineries and the dates worked, and it wasn't terribly pricey.

00:11:55
Speaker 1: So we were like, well, we'll go for it, and so that is what we wound up doing.

00:12:00
Speaker 4: That is amazing.

00:12:01
Speaker 3: Well, we're going to talk a little bit more about your trip. I am not done after this first break, we will be right back. Okay, we are back, and I want to hear more about this trip in terms of maybe what your favorite parts were, and then we'll get into maybe some of your lesser favorite parts or some struggles. So yes, give us the highlights.

00:12:31
Speaker 2: First, well, seeing the Galapagos giant tortoises was definitely a highlight. Or even just kayaking and seeing sharks right under you, I mean, that's pretty exciting. They're docile sharks because we're just swimming with them in the same waters that we were kayaking with. But you know, the wildlife is amazing. A sort of less obvious benefit is that it forced the seven of us to be together a fair amount. So, like every night, the seven of us are having dinner together, which is not something that happens all that frequently except over vacations because again, my older kids have their own lives, they are off doing their oven things, and one doesn't even really live with us full time anymore. So it was really cool to get to spend that time and make memories together.

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Speaker 1: So that's a favorite part. There were obviously challenges.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Ecuador is sort of middle income country, but there's still things with that. It's not you know, like going to London. Certainly in the Galapagos, despite a lot of the water isn't drinkable just because of what it is, and so you have to brush.

00:13:38
Speaker 1: Your teeth with bottled water.

00:13:39
Speaker 2: It just adds a layer of complexity, a living out of a suitcase for nine days, and you need to pack relatively lightly because the flights into the islands have strict baggage limits.

00:13:50
Speaker 1: Not that I don't.

00:13:51
Speaker 2: Check bags anyway, but you know, there was like you had to be prepared for that Spanish speaking. I mean, obviously we had a tour guide for big chunks of it, but then we're off on our own for at least several hours a day, so you're dealing with that.

00:14:03
Speaker 1: My kids don't always get along with each.

00:14:06
Speaker 2: Other, no, no, no, so we're managing that.

00:14:13
Speaker 1: And the selective eating that we were talking about.

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Speaker 2: Like one of the things that has always made international travel feel doable for me is being able to sort of eat whatever shows up in front of you. And I have several children for that is a big problem for them. For one in particular, though, we wound up packing dozens of Quest protein cookies. So the Quest company makes chocolate chip cookies that are very high protein. I assume they are for people who are on like cheto type diets, but whatever, they have a lot of proteins, so they can fill up a kid who will only eat those cookies and French fries and the apple sauce that you brought with you and chicken tenders in the places that have that.

00:14:58
Speaker 4: That does sound like it checks off a lot of.

00:14:59
Speaker 3: New t.

00:15:01
Speaker 2: It does well. And we've also gotten used to this with restaurants. I mean, we have our places here in our normal life that we can go to and we know what people can eat there. But if a restaurant has any sort of pasta dish on the menu, they can make you plain pasta, right like, they can pull that out and serve that to you, So that's something a child can eat. If the restaurant has any dishes where French fries are aside, they can make that for you too. They can just give you a plate of French fries and charge you whatever they decide to do for it. But you know, if they have like steak freaked on the menu, then you can have fries from that.

00:15:34
Speaker 3: So yeah, and I remember you said that you actually did do a taste test prior to this trip so that you could pack the right protein bar, because it would not have done for you to just select one and then that he turned out not to like it, and.

00:15:46
Speaker 2: Then yeah, well, and you had mentioned this, I'm like, oh, I wish he had a protein bar he really liked.

00:15:50
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, well, that's an idea.

00:15:52
Speaker 2: So I took said child to wah Wah, which has a huge selection of various energy bars, protein bars, c And we just purchased a bunch of different kinds and then did it taste test, and the Quest protein cookie is what cleared.

00:16:08
Speaker 4: The bar amazing.

00:16:10
Speaker 3: And this episode is not sponsored by Quest, but maybe a future one could be.

00:16:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:16:16
Speaker 2: Well, and I've picked up on one thing that I'm going to do differently next time, which is I am going to put everyone's name and a little sticky thing on the back of their passports, because with seven passports that all of course look very similar at all United States passports, Who's is who? So when you are doing your boarding pass like, you're hunting through the seven and I would put them in age order, but then our boarding passes wouldn't be an age order, so I'm like trying to pull the fourth one out first and sticking that out there. So I am just going to put everyone's name on the back of it and that will make it easier.

00:16:46
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

00:16:47
Speaker 3: Well that's a good hack, I mean, good thing to think about. It sounds like also just in general, getting through various checkpoints was hard. Any other pro tips there, like any I don't know, global entry or like sneaky ways, not sneaky but official ways to avoid some of the waiting that's inevitable when you're going on a trip like that.

00:17:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that there is. I mean, global entry is fine, but then you have to get it for everyone, like tsa pre check. Your kids can go in on yours, but that's not the case with global entries. So but that actually wasn't that bad. We didn't have terrible in the United States. We did not have issues with clearing customs. It was very quick. But that your global entry like for the US, doesn't help you in Ecuador or the Galapagos. They have their own systems.

00:17:29
Speaker 4: So yeah, got it?

00:17:30
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, good to know, all right, anything else any other wisdom to impart? Do you think you'll do the same thing next year and kind of schedule a few months out, or are you thinking about a longer runway.

00:17:41
Speaker 2: Well, we actually, coming out of this experience, did decide to do a big trip over next Christmas, and I am happy to report that the actual lodging for that is booked.

00:17:55
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to be vague here.

00:17:56
Speaker 2: I'm always superstitious about sharing where we're going before we're going, but it's in another bucket list destination. I knew this particular place would book up ahead of time, so we did book it. Now we can't even book flights yet. Flights open eleven months ahead of time, so we will wait till February to book.

00:18:12
Speaker 1: Those, but then we will.

00:18:13
Speaker 2: And I really love the idea that this is set, like I'm not going to be scrambling in October to figure out what we're doing and feeling like I might miss out on, you know, making some memories with my kids because I can't get a booking places that I want to go one hundred percent.

00:18:28
Speaker 3: And I especially feel like the older I get, the more I'm into refundable, book really really far in advance, and then also try to book refundable as I just have to move a trip that we're big trip that we're planning over the summer. But since I booked everything refundable, thankfully, there's still long enough runway that we can make it all happen.

00:18:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I can't move Christmas, so that is what it is.

00:18:49
Speaker 4: No, you can't move Christmas. You can't. Well you could pull all of your kids out of school, but I don't think that would fly well with the colleges.

00:18:55
Speaker 2: So yeah, we have to go then. So I mean, it doesn't really matter so much that I it's not fully refundable.

00:19:01
Speaker 1: What it is.

00:19:02
Speaker 4: What it is.

00:19:03
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's life updates.

00:19:04
Speaker 2: Now we pivoting to the life skills portion of this episode. So yeah, our Patroon community member mentioned doing many classes like with her sort of middle school aged children on various life skills, and we both loved this idea. We're like, ooh, there's so many things that kids just don't know, and it's life knowledge that you learn. Over one of my children needed to mail something and it occurred to us that like, oh, yes, our children don't mail things, Like this is a whole new universe of like where do you buy stamps? Like what do you do without going Maile, like, where does that go? And this was not something we'd really covered before because we don't use the mail all that often ourselves, so why would the kids ever have used it?

00:19:49
Speaker 1: But it is a life skill.

00:19:52
Speaker 2: So we made a list of sort of the various life skills that we would probably do tutorials with Sarah.

00:19:59
Speaker 1: Cooking.

00:20:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, so cooking, we're going to talk about our own personal experiences and then what we're doing with our kids, right, Yes, that's why we wanted to structure it. So for me, I'm gonna be honest and say that my mother tried to teach me cooking.

00:20:13
Speaker 4: I think she tried.

00:20:14
Speaker 3: She definitely taught me some baking, and I think I absorbed some cooking from biasmosis, but I didn't really do any formal learning until I had to. Necessity took over, and I think all I cooked the first year of cooking was like casadillas and the George Foreman grille.

00:20:29
Speaker 4: But quickly that got old.

00:20:31
Speaker 3: And I basically taught myself by reading magazines and actually during residency, I decided to cook every recipe and a Martha Stewart cookbook, and that actually taught me a ton because what you don't realize is that you will learn certain techniques and then you'll skip every recipe that doesn't use the techniques you don't know. And by forcing yourself to actually do every recipe in a cookbook just because it's there, you're like, actually, all of this is doable, and I don't have to skip steak just because steak was intimidating or something like that.

00:20:59
Speaker 4: So that's how it played out for me.

00:21:03
Speaker 3: With the kids, they've been a little bit more interested, I think than I was growing up. And actually one of my kids did a day didn't know it was like an overnight camp, and they offered a cooking track, and because their friend was doing it, they did it too, so that was awesome, So.

00:21:16
Speaker 4: That was bonus.

00:21:17
Speaker 3: And then I mean, I'll say just Cameron in particular has just kind of enjoyed watching various cooking and he also wants to eat certain things at certain times and has realized like, I may not feel like making pancakes on Sunday morning, but yes, you can learn to make them yourself. So he's actually become kind of like king of breakfast items. So yeah, I think we're doing okay there. I don't know that we have like a formal curriculum. I will say meal kits are a really good way to I don't know, almost gamify cooking for kids because everything's together and the instructions are there, and it's never that advanced techniques because often these meal kits are catering to people who are not real chefs.

00:21:57
Speaker 4: And so I have let my.

00:21:59
Speaker 3: Kids take over a meal kid every once in a while and they really enjoy that. So I think that's been a good learning experience.

00:22:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the impetus for my kids is often making something that they want to eat, and it's clearly not going to fly to ask anyone to make it for you at that particular time of day, Like you want an egg sandwich in the middle of the afternoon, yet you're on your own for that. So they all learned to make the sort of simple things that they want to eat, whether it's mac and cheese or make your own pizza and egg sandwich pasta. Ruth likes to bake, which is wonderful because then we are all the happy recipients of oh, there's fresh chocolate chip cookies that just magically appeared.

00:22:35
Speaker 1: So that is a big win. I love that.

00:22:38
Speaker 2: I got to say My cooking learning experience was this summer after my freshman year of college. I had an internship in Washington, DC, and I shared an apartment with a couple other people. And because of that, you're an apartment, you kind of have to cook, and so I slowly learned how to do things. That's when I first like bought myself a pan and learned how to cook with a salt and go grocery shopping and all that. So, yeah, I was pretty much by necessity, but I think that's what a lot of it is.

00:23:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.

00:23:08
Speaker 1: All right, Well we're going to take one more quick ad break and then we'll be back with a few more life skills. So next up is laundry. Sarah, do you remember when you first started doing laundry for yourself?

00:23:30
Speaker 3: I just know I definitely did my own laundry starting in whatever agreed when I just used to get impatient for certain pieces to come out of the laundry. My mom was more of like a weekly laundry person. She would do a lot of it at once. But you know, maybe on Thursday you were dying to wear that outfit that you were on Sunday or something like that, and so I quickly learned, okay, well, if I want to wear what I want to wear, I better learn to.

00:23:51
Speaker 4: Do it myself.

00:23:52
Speaker 3: So there was a couple of demos done and then you know, I kind of picked it up from there. I don't think I learned a lot of very official techniques, and we weren't precious about it. And that still stands today, and honestly, the same thing has happened with my kids. It's the kids that want to wear certain things that have taken the ownership to do laundry on occasion. They don't do it often, but they do know how to do it because we've demoed it a couple times when it's like, oh, you want that shirt, Okay, here's how to put a load in, here's how to turn the dryer on, and then at least now.

00:24:22
Speaker 4: They have that skill set. Yeah.

00:24:25
Speaker 2: So two of my older kids went to camps that were in academic dorms and for enough time, like three weeks or four weeks, that you were going to have to do laundry in the course of it. And so that's how both of them picked it up. And then save as you if you want clothes not on the household laundry cycle. That is up to you, but I think she likes having her full array of clothing available. Like when we did get back from the Galapagos, she claimed the washer first. Like when we all showed up off the plane, she was in the washer first to get her stuff.

00:24:59
Speaker 1: I was like, I got it. Do Jaspers too, because he's got to leave tomorrow.

00:25:02
Speaker 2: But we managed to get both of them done that night, and then everybody else was a slightly less quick timeline.

00:25:09
Speaker 4: But that's awesome. I love that she just like fully owns it.

00:25:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

00:25:13
Speaker 2: Well, we'll see when the little guys get into it, but probably I think by mid teens is when you know it's a good time to have a tutorial.

00:25:19
Speaker 1: And then usually the kids probably.

00:25:21
Speaker 2: Aren't going to do it on their own unless they have that real need like going away.

00:25:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right.

00:25:27
Speaker 3: Financial this is a tougher category, and I don't know that we're doing that awesome.

00:25:33
Speaker 4: And I don't know that I was trained in many formal ways.

00:25:35
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, I think I could have benefited from a little discussion of how to budget. My parents themselves were not I mean, they had their own systems that were great, but I don't feel like they were super transparent about how they did things, and I might have benefited from learning from what they were doing. And I don't know if we're doing as great a job in having the kids understand what we're doing. I mean, we've talked about allowances, and we do have them in our household, but kind of like for fun and extra money. And I don't actually know how much it's teaching other than to maybe save up short term for something bigger, to save up multiple weeks, and that is a valuable skill. But I do think as the years go by, and as the kids maybe earn more money on their own, et cetera, I will want to hopefully at least demo how to set up like a real budget on a spreadsheet or using an app, and show them kind of what we do both with our short term tracking and our long term tracking, so they can figure out if some of those methods might be helpful for them, because I think especially the concept. I don't think I understood even what a budget was until really old last week. No, like post residency kind of, I don't remember being very thoughtful about allocating.

00:26:48
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it worked out.

00:26:49
Speaker 3: We did a lot of really fun things, and I in particular, Josh was better about like I think even in residency, he had a certain percentage going to long term savings, and I was like, we're not earning very much money, so I think I'll just make sure we don't go negative and that'll be fine.

00:27:03
Speaker 4: And in some ways no.

00:27:05
Speaker 1: Regrets on that.

00:27:07
Speaker 3: You're not earning that much money. So I mean, yeah, you can't get those years back.

00:27:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but that's okay. You had fun, I mean.

00:27:15
Speaker 2: And there are certain cases too, where like your income is artificially low for a few years versus what it will be later, and I think medicine is a prime example of that. And if it's going to be painful to try to save money in the very early years, like the doubling, I think I've done this calculation here before. If you're getting eight percent interest in the stock market, like eight percent returns, the doubling is nine years, So if you know you will be able to put away twice as much in nine years, then you are okay, right.

00:27:47
Speaker 3: And especially you can do the mental math of like, well, twice as much feel like very little to me versus it feeling like a lot to me. Now right, Like it's like what percentage and if it's like such a low, laughably low percentage then and it's like a high significant percentage now that it makes sense. And actually one thing that might be fun to do is for me to somehow look back and figure out, Okay, if Josh was putting away five percent of his residency earnings back then, what is that now? Like what has that earned? And like, looking back, did that make sense? Because I actually might argue that it maybe we should have taken one more really fun trips.

00:28:21
Speaker 2: Before you guys had kids and it becomes harder and more expensive and all that stuff. Yeah, I okay, don't take our budget advice people like unless You're a residence is like the worst financial advice show ever. No, I honestly, I think the budget thing doesn't help really until the kid actually has like living on their own.

00:28:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true.

00:28:43
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's very hard to make it real outside of that. I don't know.

00:28:47
Speaker 3: I think I could have even benefited though if my parents talked about it during college then when I was initially living like on my MDPHD stipend after that, then I would have a framework.

00:28:57
Speaker 4: But I didn't have anywhere to start.

00:28:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, Sarah, I had a very low salary for my year long internship at USA Today coming out of college, it was just intuitive to me, like, this is what I should spend on housing, this is what I should spend on transportation, this is the space I have. I will not go over it. I will freelance on the side to make more money, and I will save that. Like, I don't know it just nobody told me that.

00:29:24
Speaker 4: I don't know.

00:29:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're probably right, there's some instinct that I'm feeling like maybe we just naturally figured it out. And also when you're when you are so limited, maybe you were saving but sort of the object of like I will make the pieces fit together and at least some zero and also let me figure out how to earn extra, which I did in those years. I was like teaching for Kaplin whatever you know, et cetera. Then that might make more sense than really thinking very thoughtfully how much do I want to save, because maybe the answer is we're not in that phase yet.

00:29:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, although if you are in that phase, or you know, even early on with a kid making normalizing it, that one might invest so the kid doesn't have some irrational fear of like putting money in the stock market that like you could talk about, well, this is how people do invest for the future, and the idea that money can grow when it is invested in, and that we haven't done allowances and we haven't done things like that. But all my kids are set up with investment accounts, so they can in fact do that.

00:30:23
Speaker 3: Actually, that used to great discussions about Like one of my kids said something like, oh, is that going to blow up? And we're like, that is not the point, Like they wanted a meme stock and we're like that, No, if they're young.

00:30:34
Speaker 2: They can see that right like that because there's no real consequence. They're not going to lose their retirement over it, and so then they can kind of get a sense of what it's like to invest and to choose what to invest in or to make sort of broad decisions. Their personalities come out. Some of my kids are aggressively invested in potentially high performing but potentially losing individual secks, and others are not.

00:31:02
Speaker 4: Totally get it.

00:31:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe one or two more here, Sarah, how about health, Like, you know, how would you talk especially you know your physician perspective and you have a ton of teenage patients.

00:31:12
Speaker 1: How do people manage this?

00:31:14
Speaker 4: Well?

00:31:15
Speaker 3: Hmm, I mean, I think the one thing you can do that's valuable is to let your kid talk in the appointments. Sometimes, you know, just from a physicists perpective, you get in there and like the parent's the only one saying anything, and it's like, wait a second, this is a fifteen year old, Like let them tell me about what they're doing with their diabetes, Like who's even doing it? Like there's different conditions where the management might kind of hand off at some point. It's better for that handoff not to be like from zero percent to one hundred percent the minute they leave for college. So I think making sure kids know why they're at appointments and encouraging them to be vocal and ask questions and understand what's going on. And then there's a flip side of that, which is that if there's like a medicine your kid must get and it's life or death or it's just very important. I am actually pro the parent continuing to oversee that as long as they possibly can, because I've just seen too many horror stories where it's like, oh, they were supposed to be getting that and like then they built up six months supply and it's like, I don't know.

00:32:09
Speaker 4: In something that is.

00:32:10
Speaker 3: As safety specific as like diabetes. Our analogy we like to use is like, well, would you let a thirteen year old drive on the highway? They probably could, They probably have all the mechanics, they would get the GISTs, but like you still wouldn't.

00:32:23
Speaker 4: Want them doing it. So sometimes there are scenarios where the supervision makes sense.

00:32:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, although you can't write I mean once they're like eighteen, right, I mean, they can sign forms giving you healthcare advisory rights, but it's still like you actually can't do a lot of the medical stuff for them at that point.

00:32:42
Speaker 1: Correct.

00:32:42
Speaker 3: So it's good for them to again, like you're right, gradated independence within reason, and for them to have awareness of what's going on at every stage, even when they're younger.

00:32:52
Speaker 2: Well, here's a life skill, swallowing pills. Yeah, did you teach that at all?

00:32:57
Speaker 1: Or did you?

00:32:58
Speaker 4: Yes?

00:32:59
Speaker 3: I mean we did the thing with the like red hot, I don't know whatever, yeah, with one kid, and then the other kid was just like, oh, I don't want to swallow that gross tasting stuff anymore and just did it. So we have two out of three pill swallowers now, so that's exciting.

00:33:14
Speaker 1: That is exciting.

00:33:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to a life skill for sure, But as the kid goes off on their own, like if they are going to be managing like the health service at college or something like picking up a prescription, right, that is its own life skill that it's not automatic.

00:33:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you do have to talk them through it.

00:33:34
Speaker 3: Although now there's a lot of online solutions for that, so maybe maybe jen Alpha will be like more comfortable with just getting their scripts on Amazon or whatever whatever.

00:33:44
Speaker 4: Other delivery pharmacy that there is just comes to the.

00:33:47
Speaker 2: Door magically, exactly. Well, we'd love to hear your list of life skills. If you are teaching your kids anything in particular or something that you feel you didn't learn until much later than perhaps you should have, we'd love to hear what those are. Not just thinking I was starting to make a list, like putting gas in a car. I mean that's one, getting on a train, taking a subway.

00:34:08
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. There's all sorts of skills in life that I guess you learn them as you go.

00:34:13
Speaker 3: And it's a reminder that like when you are with kids and you're doing these interesting new things, to just make sure you bring to light what is actually happening. If it's your first time on a train with kids and it's a teen or a tween, think to yourself, like they might be on their own next time, let's at least talk through what is happening versus just kind of getting into that oh I've got everything kind of a mode and treating them like a younger kid. So it's a good reminder.

00:34:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, all right, Well, moving on to the question part. So the question is how much sleep do your kids actually get? When do they go to bed and wake up? And do you think it is enough? A discussion of sort of bedtimes and sleeping for non baby children would be helpful. Yeah, So what's yours looking like?

00:34:55
Speaker 1: Sarah?

00:34:55
Speaker 4: And I feel like you're going to have a non traditional rant.

00:34:59
Speaker 3: Maybe see what happens in your execonder brant as we call them. Yeah, we are really like natural about this, Like I don't say, oh, you need ten and a half hours or you know, something terrible will happen, But in reality, I'm usually going to bed at nine thirty, So I'm pretty motivated to make sure Genevieve is like on the pipeline towards bedtime by nine o'clock or so, and we've found that for her sleeping from around that time until the time she has to get up for school, which is around six forty five, means she's not terribly grumpy.

00:35:29
Speaker 4: So I guess we've gauged it.

00:35:31
Speaker 3: More in our family is like, is the child insanely difficult to wake up or cranky in the morning, and if so, do we need to do something about bedtime? I would say my teens and tweens sleep between eight and nine hours a night most nights, less sometimes when like for eighth grade, she might be motivated to stay up working on homework and doesn't get that full amount. And I think she has learned, just like I have, that you can do that every once in a while, but you cannot do that all the time without feeling terrible. So I think the natural consequences model can help also, But we haven't been very micromanagy about it. What about you guys?

00:36:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so the one good thing our high school moved to a later start. It now moves it starts at eight thirty versus seven thirty, which is nice, but of course part of that is that the middle school moved earlier, so now it's at eight, which is better than anything starting at seven thirty, but there's still buses take a long time to get there. We drive the kids sometimes, but if there's only one adult around, it doesn't work really to drive the kids in the morning, so they're.

00:36:35
Speaker 1: On the bus.

00:36:36
Speaker 2: So my kids are supposed to be in their rooms at eight thirty with no devices. We're supposed to be starting Henry's bed process, then with reading and teeth brushies and showering a few nights a week, and ideally he is asleep by nine point fifteen.

00:36:55
Speaker 1: He still generally needs somebody sitting with him.

00:36:57
Speaker 2: Usually he sort of recognizes when he's getting tired and that that's when you come in and sit, because otherwise it could take a long time. But anyway, the other kids, we turn out the lights are supposed to at ten, and then the wake up is either six forty and six fifty for the middle schoolers if they are taking the bus, it is seven and seven ten if they are getting driven, and then the high schooler is seven twenty five. Sort of either way, whether it because the bus and car, we would leave it about the same time Henry. Henry school starts at nine to ten, so the odds that he would not be awake by the time school was starting and he needed to get ready are low. Does this always happen? No, Sarah, this does not always happen, And why not? Well, if I am there and enforcing things and being very much riding hard on everyone, then it will. I sometimes feel like I am the only adult in my household who seems to care that this is the bed time time that we have all agreed upon, which can be frustrating for me. It's even more frustrating if I go out for the evening somewhere and come home.

00:38:08
Speaker 1: Past eight thirty and the process has not necessarily started.

00:38:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is something that I have to do a lot of deep breathing. There's some things that are fine, Like I don't mind if my two middle schoolers chat with each other in one of their rooms instead of reading, Like I think that's probably fine if the two of them are hanging out together as long as they're quiet. I don't make my high schooler turn the lights off because he can manage if he's doing work.

00:38:37
Speaker 1: And he doesn't wait have to wake up as early.

00:38:39
Speaker 2: So Certainly sleeping from ten thirty or eleven to seven thirty is not bad at all for a sixteen year old, so I'm not so worried about that.

00:38:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, And again, like that's one of those things where like micromanaging doesn't totally make sense because they're going to.

00:38:52
Speaker 4: Be doing it entirely on their own pretty soon, and so.

00:38:55
Speaker 3: Better to have sort of a graduated practice and learning how to do that.

00:38:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is something I definitely want to work more on in this year. I really like Henry's bed process to be done by nine fifteen, because then I have forty five minutes to read until I go turn the lights off. And if I'm waking up at six twenty in order to get people up at six forty, like I would like to be asleep by ten fifty, which means I'm getting myself into bed ten thirty, ten forty.

00:39:29
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:39:29
Speaker 2: It just it doesn't work to still be putting people to bed all the way up until ten and then you know, like do I get my fifteen minutes.

00:39:36
Speaker 1: To read here? I don't know.

00:39:38
Speaker 3: And in Henry's case, this is more about like your night than it is about his health, because his school starts so late, but listeners, that's okay.

00:39:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want to spend my whole evening.

00:39:51
Speaker 2: To be like I would like to actually get some leisure time at the end of this, I mean, come on.

00:39:55
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:57
Speaker 2: So I don't know, but everyone is generally sleeping more than eight hours, I believe, which is good.

00:40:02
Speaker 1: So yeah, all right, Love of the Week Sarah.

00:40:06
Speaker 3: Well, I was gonna go meta and just say when the kids take over a big job and do it well, but that's a little vague. So I'm going to actually give a shout out to the Lululemon Scuba hoodie I'm wearing right now because it's the most basic, basic thing. Like I am just outing myself as a basic human being by saying that, but like it took me a really long time to buy one, and I'm like, oh, I get why people love this hoodie.

00:40:24
Speaker 2: So I'm going to actually do a shout out to my phone, which is maybe not the.

00:40:31
Speaker 1: Most common thing people do a Love of the Week.

00:40:34
Speaker 2: But if I am stuck sitting in Henry's room waiting for him to go to bed, the fact that I can scroll or read an ebook is so nice, Like this would be complete wasted time otherwise, I don't know what I would be doing in the era before a screen on my hand, I don't know what would I be doing.

00:40:53
Speaker 1: Maybe I would have made him go to bed light like maybe I would have. It would have been so painful.

00:40:57
Speaker 2: I would have like actually enforced he could scream and learn to go to bed on his own.

00:41:03
Speaker 4: You'd be listening to nineties tunes on your walkman.

00:41:05
Speaker 1: W Walkman. Yeah, We'll I have was sitay there. I'd probably fall asleep. All right.

00:41:11
Speaker 2: Well, this has been best of both worlds. We've done life updates, Life Skills. We will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together.

00:41:20
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.

00:41:22
Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can.

00:41:29
Speaker 1: Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts.

00:41:35
Speaker 2: Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.