Howard Priestley: Illuminating the Autistic Spectrum through the Lens of Music and Radio

Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
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Real life people who will inspire and show that you
are not alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness,
acceptance and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World.
Today's guest is Howard Priestley. He's music director of Phoenix Radio,
located in northern England.
Welcome Howard.
It's a pleasure.
Well, it's a pleasure to have you and I really
appreciate you coming on today. If you would tell our
listeners a little bit about Phoenix Radio, where you're located
and what it is that you do there.
Sure, yeah, Well we're Bates in the north of England,
so Halifax is midway between Leeds and Manchester, which are
probably two more well known cities, although Halifax is quite
a well known small town which has got a history
of creating things on a worldwide scale. Historically, we or
I run Phoenix as a community radio station.
Well radio is a great thing to do. I understand
that that's not all you do. You have other things
that you enjoy as well.
My background's art, and it's also kind of featuring in
further education and the work I was doing mostly was
with people with learning disabilities. Part of what I also
did was I were qualified youth work and I was
determined to try and make the youth service more inclusive.
So part of my artwork is cartoons and things, so
I tried to create things that were of interest to
young people generally to try and put messages across about
working together.
And that's kind.
Of continued with the teaching that I did and also
part time work I've done in local at the end schools,
and quite often it's meant working with people who were
diagnosed as having autism. It's only when you know people
that talk to people you know how things can.
Affect you, not just with.
Having that one thing that you've been told you have,
but it was only with talking people with parkings, how
you feel, how we find out.
How depression sets in.
They can't do the things that the body you've been
able to things and equally ails this thing, you know,
like bipolar you know how again, it affects people going forward.
They may have an episode, but the episode doesn't leave them.
You can feel how ye how the people look at them.
Now.
I understand that the radio station that you work with
is a local station and you get to use several
people within the autistic community to work within the radio station,
and I think that's just awesome that you have that
ability to do that. Now, one thing that you was
telling me, which I think is very important for our
listeners to hear, is you had a couple of guys
that was kind of upset with each other and they
both were autistic, and you had to explain to them
the differences and just the various things that you would
and they said, or one of them said, well, he's
autistic too, And because of that, he thought that just
because he was autistic, that he should understand everything that
he's going through because he's autistic, which just lends everyone
body to understand that just because someone is autistic or
not autistic, we all go through the same thought process
on certain issues that we might have that upset us.
So how did you handle that particular situation.
I left it really for him to take what I
said away and to think about it, which is what
I would do to anyone really, you know. I mean,
I think you were friends. As far as I know,
they are still friends. But it was something that happened
once had started a relationship with a new girlfriend, and
the other guy couldn't understand why he was trying to
be sidelined, which again is what happened. Was as you
grow up, you know these things. But it just could
not understand why this was happening. And then he broke in.
The the guy who felt he did he said he
wasn't aware of what he's done and it felt bad
about And that's why I explained that the other guy
was autistic, because they were all so am I I said, yeah,
but you're both different, I said, which we all are?
I said, I have a brother, and if I was
the same as my brother Abybory, if we all have.
The same similarities, I said, we're all different, whether it's
to do with autism or whether it isn't. So I
try and treat them as you would with anyone.
And that's how I've always kind of worked with people,
you know, And I think the worst thing is to
put people in a category. And then and then I
think that's an easy, lazy way of assuming that, oh
they're autistic, so.
They do that.
Yeah, that's so right, and I commend you for handling
it that way, because we as people are different and
that's the beauty of it. We have different likes, we
have different dislikes we have, we have things that we
do that just other people wouldn't understand, but people in
our group would.
I remember someone was saying, because I was saying that
I was having a good laugh with one of the guys.
I said, oh, look at together. I said, what do
you mean, Well, so many with autism.
A joke and laugh, but I do. I work with it,
you know.
I mean we just find each other up as a
would with anyone, and they make jokes about things and
it's you know, sometimes it made up for something that
you find for them, but they do. But the fact
that if you do, Yeah, I think we live in
sorry where I think it's a human thing.
I think we've always had this.
Whereas it's easier to be lazy and not meet people,
it's easier to actually make things up about them because
they're fitting the record that you want them to fade,
and it's not necessarily one that they are in.
But we make it.
You know, it's Chinese whispers. It's easy to make something
up rather than look at the truth. I have to
look at the truth. You have to meet people and
talk to people and understand people. And that's that's the
way I've actually tried to be through the radio, because
the radio is a our communication and it's act communities
to communicating, and it's people who make up a community
who may not necessarily have an opportunity, and I like
to feel that where we can, we will give people
that opportunity.
And I think it caused problems at first because people
were used.
To a certain voice on the radio, as you will
you will have in the sense you know there are
radio jobs. You know there are people who you know, Hi,
this is I don't want that. I want people to
talk like we do around here. I'm not going a
lot of people will come and live here with different accents.
But equally there are people who live here who wouldn't
get that chance. And at first people would say what's this?
What are you playing?
Oh's that?
Whereas now we've get very few people condemning, criticizing. I
think people now understand where we are, what we do
what would stand for that means so much more.
And that's the beauty of radio.
You brought up a good you know adjective in accepting
and radio being in about communicator, and that's really truly
what radio is. It's about people behind that might doing
what they do, whether it's bringing music, whether it's bringing
talk radio, no matter what the format may be, is
putting it across so that the listeners can can understand.
And enjoy it.
And the more the radio station replicates its own community,
then all of a sudden they're listening to their own people.
Then they find they're more accepting about it, and then
they might even just understand a little bit better because
because you're letting autistic people be behind that might and
talk and tell their stories and do what they do,
and that just helps, you know, unite the community.
I think, yes, definitely, definitely.
I mean I think I have to say there are
certain young people come, more autistic, who will not go
behind the radio because that's all they want to do. Well,
there will come be part of our small community, you know,
whether it's again because they do our work. So some
may come and want to do some drawings, some may
want to just have a conversation, you know, and that's
to me enough, you.
Know, because again.
We'll working together rather than keeping a power and being separate,
you know, So I think, yeah, I mean that's always been.
A policy that I try to encourage with people.
I think that's just really awesome because at radio, especially
being a community radio station, you have people that donate
their time and come in. I think that gives an
opportunity for people to, like you said, communicate and get
to know each other. And I think that breaks down
a lot of areas as well.
And interestingly, there are volunteers who themselves would not have
actually met people with autism. Have they not been barer
what we do. And they've become friends. Yeah, they're going
things and things, you know. Yeah, so it's not just
yeah coming to expending a couple while I was going
home and forgetting it. They're actually becoming friends and taking
them to know like the groups and stuff. But it's
all about making sure that it's it's safe and secure.
So you know, we will talk to parents and they
will be then say yes or no or we need
to be there or explain some of the istues that
may occur. You know, it could be that being in
an environment and a concept. Yeah, the one particular guy,
he has to sit close to where the emergency does
are in case he has an anxiety attack.
These are all.
Things that are kind of talked to people who want
to offer that support so that they're not putting a
tricky situation either.
And they give that what I always call an.
Invisible safety net to a person because it can be
the friend, but equally, you know, for that moment, you
are also care for that person if they need that,
you know. So, So these are all things that actually
grow from being a proper community radio station.
You know.
And the great thing about that is you've got people
interacting with other people that they normally wouldn't be seeing.
And that's going to not only help you at the
radio station, but when they leave, they get a chance
to tell their friends, their family, you know, what they
did at the station and who they interacted with. Once
that starts spreading around not only their friends and family,
but around the community. That teaches people and it breaks
down these barriers and gives a better understanding of what's
going on, and it's a win win for everyone.
Yeah, and I think it's a different kind of skill
set which can be shared. You know, there are things
that fascinate me, and you know, I think there are
things where you can get tripped too. And I understand
that because there are times. But again it's not because
it's a general trait, but there are times when I've said, oh,
let's do this instead, let's let's try this instead. I
don't know what you mean, don't worry, and so well,
what I'm thinking it and I'll try and explain. Well,
then if I can see that they're struggling with a
new idea, so let's just carry on as normal. But
what I will try and do is I might introduce
that new idea by me doing it and them observing
me doing it, and then they have.
A choice whether to try that in the next week
or two. And quite sometimes it will. But sometimes they't
want to say what they're doing. But then we do.
Well, we're creatures of habit, we.
Are exactly so there's quite often times when we don't
want to change a thing because we're happy with what
we're doing.
You know, that doesn't make it autistic changing it slightly.
I watched the YouTube.
Interviewers Someone the other day, and it wasn't about Augin
but it was about ADHD, but it was linking it
to jazz. And the lady who was talking about was
a I think she's a musician and a journalist in jazz,
but she was explaining how once you got into jazz,
the actual the concepts, the the perhaps the confrontations within
the music, the way that sometimes there's so many things
going on.
And it almost gave her.
That release because I think you said the ADHD is
thought it is caused by the slow release of dopamine.
Is it in the brain? I think that's what she said.
And listening to jazz and all these kind of jazz
grades because of the interesting because of the way that
the music was put together after gave her that rush.
And so I thought that was quite interesting. You look
at David Byrne, who was recently diagnosed as being.
Autistic, if it would he have created the music with
talking heads.
I did not been.
Diagnosed with autism, but it was doing it before it
was diagnosed.
So that was that was how he's always mind functioned
to create a completely unique type of music, you know.
So so there are so many positives, yeah, to to
to look at rather than well, let's say, bracket things.
Yeah, absolutely, and plus you just brought up music. Music
is one of those things in the world that can
bring great feelings, can bring feelings that you remember that
weren't so good. It can put you in a place
that you want to be, where you have your comfort zone.
Music is is worldwide and it breaks down all be
areas in all languages. I think that's just another thing
that it shows just because someone is labeled something, it
does not mean that they can't contribute and can't create
great stuff. You can just look at so many people
around the world that has done it and you've just
brought up one. So yeah, I think great point to
bring up.
Well.
I was brought up listening to Funkadelic Parliament, George Clinton's music,
and nobody in my friendship circle ever knew what I
was listening to. We couldn't get any of it. And
you know, when I went to our college I had
just gone on with, I had a friend that were
suddenly discovered it and can't believe.
What it was listening to.
But it was like something nobody had really heard and
it's still to the same the great You know a
lot of people, I mean George Clinton made his joke
on one of his albums, which one's George Clinton, because
nobody heard of him, nobody knew why I was doing
and yet it was now I know a lot of
it was probably drugging, duced but because I liked it,
and because I was drawing kind of comic books which
were considered a bit weird, everybody thought I was on drugs,
which I wasn't it.
It was just I loved something totally different.
And I think you could actually almost change the spelling
around and make it artistic rather than autistic, because though
there are I mean, I know it's professor probably said before,
but throw that one in there.
But but but it's true, you know, and as you
just said, you know, we've just said David.
But yeah, a lot of these six people go, wow,
that's amazing, you know, talking edge Joe.
Yeah. Great. Now, if if.
Somebody was say, you know, it's autistic, would they go, oh,
I don't know, bather listening to it now, they wouldn't.
They would accept it. They'd accept it because they like
what they're hearing. They like what it's like on stage,
you know, they they recognize a.
Unique individual and that's what it is. Unique and individual.
That's two words that would think about.
You know, absolutely, individuals can just do so many things
that others think that they can't do. And the bottom line,
when we're listening to music that they're creating, and it
doesn't matter who's making it, what they're doing, it only
matters it.
It's just good.
Yeah. Yeah.
The fact that you brought up unique is another thing
that I think comes under the term understanding, because those
that aren't in the autistic world need to understand that
just like people that aren't autistic individuals, we're unique to ourselves,
that the autistic community is just the same and they're
able to contribute and really elevate and do a lot
of great things.
Yeah. No, I mean, I've I'm I might be going
off for another tangent now.
But but it's interesting when we're i mean, we're using
David Byrne as a musical inspiration and other people have
kind of topped in to Tom Jones spurning down the house.
I mean, Bootsy Collins even play its noting, I mean,
even it's what some of the musicians with Funkadelic went
and joined talking for a while, won't burning out particularly,
it was depo genius, so they're tapping into somebody's you know, mind,
and there's things that they do without considering the autism.
They're seeing somebody who is who is a musical inspiration
and they're going to be polved.
Yeah, and that's just something that just goes way beyond
just music. You stop and think about people that, no
matter what they do, they figure things out and they
find ways to help out and they just become a
leader in a sense. So it's part of just expanding
their mind and showing others that they they're capable of it,
and just anything can happen from there.
No.
Well, I mean it might sound like strange example, but
one of the guys that I've been talking about who
come choos was autistic. It comes to every Friday, and
because I run the station and I had to take
over somebody's show on a Friday temporarily, which was about
nine months ago, so I'm still doing it temporarily. We
had a new presenter that came in, but she travels
from Leeds. Now I know maybe in your terms it's
not a long way, but she travels fifteen miles and
it was to do an hour's show and I was
having to put on a pre record store because somebody
else let me down. So from ten o'clock it was
a one hour pre record.
I did two.
Hours, and then this young lady did this extra hour
then went back come and it was the artistic presenter
who said to me, why don't you move your show
an hour earlier tally prerecorded show out and then she
can have a two hours no, And I'm not really
even considered that as a possibility because the primley didn't
have to be.
There, you know, he don't wad before. And I went,
that's good idea.
Actually, so so I sat an hour earlier, but it
allows her because she travels and then goes home straight away,
it made more sense that she did a two hours show.
He's more used for her. But it came from him
advising me, aren't there, and I went thought.
About that, you know, So so I like says, yeah, so,
I mean I didn't hear the last of it for.
About a month ago, you remember I told him that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
But it's just simple things that I hadn't thought, you know.
So so we we'd like to say I like to
work together with with people, and then sometimes it's not
just they don't just come in to do a show
and then that's it. He supports other people whoever, the
guy who comes into as a physical visibility it comes
to a wheelchair, and the guy was autistic, supports him,
advises him, gives him help on how to do each.
Show and everything, you know.
So say, it's it's things that I couldn't do without
those people helping me, you know, and and they appreciate
being part of what we do, you know.
So it's good. It's all around. It's good.
Yeah, absolutely, And it just proves another point that just
because your artistic doesn't mean they go into their shell
and just just be by themselves. They help others, they're
they're giving, they're just they're they're people that you can
look up.
To because they're contributing to the world.
As far as I'm concerned.
The people who I work with the elements of what
we probably consider human traits, which can be not very
nice human traits, and.
None of that shows, you know.
They they that's do a job that that so I
enjoy being there, and that's the big ele mental you know.
There's no kind of connivy, no kind of disrespect, you know,
and I think those are things that, yeah, I I
can learn.
So I think that when you look around the world
and you see different things that go on, there's people
in certain areas and places that do outstanding things, and
we don't look at labels. We just look at the
outstanding things they do. And I think that it wouldn't
hurt us all to look at them and maybe say,
you know, maybe I'm going to learn something from them today.
Well, I've always felt for well, I felt for a
long long time that as been something which we all have,
if you are to kind of for our category to it,
I think there are certain things that we all do.
And going back to what I was saying about the
Oca Dave, which I'm not bo, I sometimes have thought, oh,
it's my artistic training.
But yeah, I'm walking to a room and if there's
a picture on the wall.
That slightly ticked to one side, I'll do everything I
count to stress it up. If you go into a
restaurant and you get your cutlery thrown on the table,
you know, I'll move them around. So yeah, we have
forked to the left, nice to the right sport in
front of them.
Yeah, And I don't know whether that's just me.
Wanted to be more orderly or is it just something
that is built into us?
But some people because it's it's a spectrum.
Well maybe we're at the very lowest part of that spectrum,
but it is still something which we have in our genes,
you know. But some people it's it's it's kind of more,
you know. I don't know, it's just I'm not a doctor.
I can't I can't say I've done any research on it.
But there are just times when I see people like
myself or will move things around or shift thing. Oh
that's not quite right, you know, and you know that
need to have something balanced, you know.
I don't know. I don't know.
Well, we're all human, we all make mistakes, we all
do things differently, we all have our issues. It's just
kind of too bad that we have to put a
label on things and we just can't accept them for
what they are. But you said it earlier. If we
were all the same in this world, it would be
pretty darn boring.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh no, I mean I'm glad.
I mean I'm glad that people think that I'm different. Yeah,
with what the joints that do the stuff I talk about,
I don't mate off to be Yeah, catching your eyes
does anything. I'm just like saying some new approach his
life different than the person next door or whatever, you know,
and like say you you don't want to be the same.
I don't want to be same. Yeah.
The biggest thing is that is that we're a community,
whether it be a local community or worldwide community, that's
what we are. The commercial radio stations sometimes forget that
they're still delivering product to the community. Absolutely, if if
I had an artistic child that was working at a
radio station, I mean I would just feel so good
that they have the possibility of doing that and the
options of doing that, Whereas if you go to a
commercial radio station because they haven't got this or that
they're not going to let them even try. So there's
a lot to be said for community, you know, because
communities are what support each other and what help each other.
You know.
Just the fact that you're doing that and you know,
part of that autistic community helping people, I think that's
a great thing.
Yeah.
Thanks, And it's about I mean the parents have often
said it's the personal development and the interaction that they
need to work on, you know, by coming towards that's
that's helping them, you know.
And that's a huge part of being a community radio station,
helping others and really showing people that they can elevate
to do what they want to do, that nothing's impossible,
thank you.
I mean, it's interesting that somebody from another community radio
station did make a comment that today, oh, yeah, we
we have people come in, but you.
Put them on air. Why not that, you know?
Is this something which I've never considered being a problem,
but you know, you actually yeah, yeah, we we have
people come in on placements, but you put them on
you actually put them on air as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.
I mean we're we're visually impaired students who have done
broadcasting with us because they brought some well the two
students came in who didn't know each other, but paired
them up so they went into the studio and one
operated the equipment while the other one did the microphone work,
you know.
And and it's.
It's finding ways around things rather than say no, not possible.
I think that's just tremendous.
If we all thought that we couldn't do something just
because we have a roadblock, that just happens to pop up,
This would be a pretty pathetic world to live in.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll we're still wondered at our record.
We yeah, you got a point there.
I think it's just really great that you find ways
to make things happen rather than find ways not to
make them happen.
Yeah yeah, yeah, thank you for that. Thanks.
Well, I want to thank you for coming on because
this has been great conversation, great stories. I love what
you're doing at your radio station, and I'm sure that
the listeners are going to really appreciate and hopefully they
can follow you and find out more about what you're
doing over there.
So thanks for coming on.
Excellent, right right, Well, all the best, joy the rest
of your day.
Thanks and you too.
Okay, all the by said, yes, thanks, I really appreciate
you coming on. Thanks for taking the time out of
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