The Wizard of Oz with Ever Mainard

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Speaker 1: On the Doe Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy ze in best start changing it with the bel Cast. Hello and welcome to the Beckdel Cast. My name is Caitlin, my name is Jamie, and we're here to talk about movies. But what about the portrayal of women characters? Yeah, that's like that interesting angle, very interesting angle. I pitched it one time to someone. They're like, here's a million dollars. I've never heard such a great idea. It was me. Thank you again for that. I had dollar dollars. Yes, I've been spending it wisely. You'll be happy to know. Yeah, we give it all the Aristotle. What are you doing with an Aristotle? He's buying bottles of smear knof ice to ice us with. Oh that's what he's doing. Do you think we've consumed a million dollars? Do you think anyone's ever consumed a million dollars worth of smear knot ice? No, but I think you're well on your way to consuming a million dollars with a Mike's Hard lemonade, you know, what that's uh, kind of mean to say, but also maybe you're not wrong. Well judgment on my part. Well, if we're breaking it down financially, that's five hundred thousand mics. Aren't lemonades. They only cost two dollars. Well, it's a cost effective road to ruin. Sure, there's time, there's time yet. Yes, So anyway, we're talking about the portrayal of women in movies. Sometimes it's okay, Sometimes it's not. Often it's not. It's inspired by the Bechdel Test, which requires that a movie has two female characters. They have to have names, they have to talk to each other, and their conversation has to be about something other than Is that so much to ask? Apparently it is sometimes because a lot of movies don't pass the Bechdel tests. Because we're talking about an older movie today, Yeah, what what I'm saying about. You watched an older movie that I asked you to watch, called The wom and you did not like it, right you? You referenced it several times on the podcast. I was like, I should watch this movie. I don't like it for a number of reasons. First of all, I'm sorry they do spend the entire movie talking about men and how they're all very distraught, but they're talking about it like this, right, that's it's so much fun. Another reason I don't like I struggle with a lot of movies from that era because the acting style drives me nuts. That's what it sounds like. But we're talking about a movie that I like much better than that. But before we jump in, let's introduce our guests. That sounds wonderful. She's a comedian. She's done a one woman show at the Fringe Festival called let Me Be Your Main Man, and she's in a movie coming out called The Fields. Ever Maynard, Hello, Hi, thank you so much for being here, Thank you for having me. Also, the Fields would pass the bichel Tesk. What about the female orgasm? Oh my god, there should be a version of the back to test where there has to be a conversation about women coming there's it's like a subtest. I bet almost no movie would pass. I can't even I'm trying to think of movies that like, you see a woman like come on screen, and I'm thinking Pleasantville. Do you remember when her mom in the bath master bates in the bathtub and then a tree catches on fire, and then that prevented me from coming forest fire. Only you can cause forest fires by orgasm. What an incredible notion to place in people's heads. For a women, You'll burn down our florends. What's the what's what's the movie today? Oh? My god, the movie today is The Wizard of Oz. This is a special episode because it's not only your favorite movie ever, but also Jamie, it's your favorite movie. I mean, I love it. I I've seen it dozens of times, you know, I first saw it as a Kid's probably one of the first movies I ever saw. My mom made it a point to be like, Caitlin, you're a personnel with consciousness, Like your infantile amnesia is over. You can watch movies. Now watch this movie. So I probably first saw it when I was like four or five years old. Uh, and I've been watching it on a regular basis ever since. What about you? Ever when it was the first time you saw it pretty young as well? Yeah, but it used to come on we would watch it every Thanksgiving. Yeah, it's a weird thing. And then it would come on TV um around Christmas. So it was this weird thing. And then my aunt had a hs so and then my mom had a h it's brag. It sounds like, holy shit, I don't even know what the letters and for it it. Oh wow, video yeah, video something system. Yeah, that's what's We'll never know what that age stand for. Okay, I'm not going to google it. I'm trying to be better at not googling things when I don't know what they are, and to just exist in not knowing things. Oh, I could never do that. I have to know. I want to get as dumb as possible. When to do first the Wizard of Oz. I don't remember the first time, but I went through, Like I saw it a bunch when I was a kid, and then for some reason, when I was in middle school, I saw it again and that time got really really really into it for like a couple of years. Right where like and I had like a huge like my mom gave me her old jewelry box at some point, I think because it was broken there was no jewelry or jewelry, but I used it to house my Wizard of Oz collection. You have a collection bracelets, nicklass, t shirts, posters, the bake underwear. Come on, Yeah, I and I like had five different VHS editions of like and my I think my family for a couple of years would just go to like Good Wills to search for Wizard of Oz ship to how it is. Yeah, that's so crazy. It was so like I and and by extension, I like was obsessed with Judy Garland in middle school of a tape all of her Like they would have a birthday marathon for her on Turner Classic Movies every year, and I would tape them onto my little VHS tapes, And man, what a year for Judy Garland. Both of my favorite Judy Garland movies came out that year. Well, I'm also a big old Mickey Rooney head. And my favorite Andy Hardy movie she did came out that year. To mean ed Hardy, You're right, You're right on your podcast, it seems like somebody drinking hard lemonade, wouldn't it's actually Mr Ard Mickey Rooney Man. Unfortunately he's not in this movie. But if you ever get a chance to read or borrow my very large biography I owned of making Rooney he's fascinating. He went through I mean, he was like notoriously bad with money. He was also so he was like fourteen inches tall or something. Also, he could not stop sucking, like he's so interesting. Yeah, he's a horny little guy. But he went through a series of like really bad business decisions, like in his forties when he was down on his luck, and off the top of my head, soda for dogs. That business, Soda for Dogs is one of my favorites. Uh. The other one was round hot Dogs making already opened a restaurant. Wait, this is familiar. You talked about this episode, dude. I remember I remember so don't no, no, no, it's fine, but I remember you saying so for dogs because it reminded me of Dip, a pet from Arrested Development. And then oh yeah, you said round hot Dogs. I was like, isn't that just malogney? No, because it's like a hot dog doughnut that he was and it was called it was called like this isn't right, but it was in like rural Connecticut, and he opened like a business called like Mickey Rooney's Weenie Palace or something like that where they were they were on his little weenie palace and he would put the round doughnut hot dogs just on hamburger buns. So you're just getting less food. And amazingly it didn't work out. Okay, wait on, I know I treated about it four hundred times. Mickey Rooney had a field business called Mickey Rooney's Weeny World that sold circular hot dogs. Thanks Jammie two years ago. Well, this podcast is now about Mickey Rooney. Sorry, we're not talking about about rooney Heads for yet. Mickey Rooney and Rooney Mare. Here's another excerpt from the Mickey Rooney biography. Mickey told us quote, I bet Howard's going to offer to sign us me to a million dollar contract. Then a minute later, maybe he wants to invest in Mickey Rooney Macaroni. That's my best idea. I love Mickey Rooney. That was another plan of his Mickey Rooney Macaroni. I mean that at least sounds good like that has a good ring to it. I would buy based on the name alone. Hey, should I do the recap? Yeah? Yeah, what Mickey Rooney or just figure in his business car Liza Oz is about a character named Dorothy Gale. She lives in Kansas with her Auntie m and uncle Henry. There's this character named Miss Gulch. She wants to kill her dog. Yeah, so she's like, no, don't do that. I'm going to run away from home so you can't kill my dog. And then there's a tornado and she can't find her family. They've already gone down to the tornado seller, and she goes in the house and bam. She gets hit in the head is knocked unconscious. When she wakes up, well, she's in the middle of the cyclone. The cyclone transports her to the wonderful world of Oz. She wakes up, she comes out, she's in munch Gamble and she's like, what the fuck is happening. There's a good which she comes She's like, lady, you're in sucking Oz now and you can't get back home until you go to the Wizard of Oz who lives in the Emerald City Frank Morgan. She sets out on this journey to go visit the Wizard of Oz because he's going to be able to help her return to Kansas, And on the way she meets some friends. Scarecrow he needs a brain, he's stupid, he doesn't have any brains right, And then they meet the Tin Man. He doesn't have a heart, he doesn't know how to have emotions. Jamie could fix. Then they meet the cowardly lion. No interest in fixing that one. Yeah, me, I don't blame you. And then meanwhile, you could, but you don't want to if I wanted to, but I'm busy right now. Meanwhile, the witch is like, you get no, I need these. Oh I forgot about the fucking ruby slippers. I do a very good recap. I just leave out important details, that's all. So she killed the witch's sister. That's right to mention that we go to the east, which to the east, and then the wicked Witch of the West is now after Dorothy because Dorothy has the ruby slippers given her by Glinda. Okay, so I know this is just okay skipping a lot of important things. That a tree just burned down somewhere because because I'm in the middle of an orgasm so upset. That's about the sound of an orgasm and a tree falling to the count Oh, I know. I was about to make a joke where it's like, if a tree falls down in the woods and no one's there to hear, it doesn't happen. But can the same be applied to a woman's orgasm, Like if no one's around to hear the woman orgasm. Does it actually happen? Sometimes? I hope not roommates home and I'm like, I wish I could back was allowed all, you know what I mean? So the witches after Dorothy because she wants Dorothy's rubies. She wants Dorothy though she like wants to burn down a tree, which she kind of. She throws a lot of fireballs at Dorothy, so she's like, that's flour play for her. Okay, let's get back on path because you mean the yellow brick row. Look, I'm getting defensive over this movie. I know, I'm sorry to have Butcher. They finally reach Emerald City and the the Great and Powerful Odds. It's like, fuck you guys, go bring me in the Wicked Witches broomstick so like I thought you were just gonna give us the things we wanted. He's like, no, I want something in return. So then they have to go to the Witch's castle, but there's always flying monkeys. They capture her, They take Dorothy, she locks her in a tower. None what happens, I've forgotten. I don't know, are you being for real? Okay? It was like we just we all just watched I know, Slash. It's one of those movies that I'm convinced if I close my eyes and really focused, I go watch the whole movie inside of my head, like one of those I used to be able to do that. Yo. See, everybody knows, right. So the tin Man and the Scarecrow in Lion have to save her, and they're being chased by all the bad guys who live in the Witch's castle. Finally they confront the Witch and she's like, I'm going to burn down the straw Man and she takes Dorothy takes a bucket of water to put out the fire. It splashes on the witch Boom, She's melted. She liquidates. So then they bring back the broomstick to the Wizard and he's like, oh, I don't know, this is not good enough, come back tomorrow, and Dorothy's like, fuck you, you promised us. What are you doing? And then it's revealed that this great magnificent Oz is actually just a man behind the curtain. He's like, I'm sorry, I'm a fraud. I'm a piece of ship. But here here's the things you already had all along, Scarecrow. You already had a brain, you were already the smartest one. Tin Man you were already the most sensitive one. You just need a little clockhart to feel better about yourself. Right, and then and then he's like, cowardly lion, You're not a coward, You're a brave you have been this whole time. Can we take a time out right here? This is something that bothered me. So he pins a metal on the cowardly Lion. But he was wearing fur, so clearly has to pierced through the fur and the skin doesn't. Yeah, he doesn't go out. He's like, yeah, you can wear this. Yeah, Well he's he's a brave boy. Now he can't show any sort of cant pay anymore. He's just like, no, he does, but he has to pretend like he's like, I'm fine with this. So now he's just like everything. He's brave, he's strong. If he bleeds, he will not call attention. Do it right, and then the story. So the story ends. But now Dorothy still hasn't gotten home to Kansas, and he so the wizards like, let me take you there in my hot air balloon. Has a hot air balloon, right, never getting a stranger's hot air balloon every one, but he accidentally leaves without her, so then Glenda the Goodwin shows up and she's like, you had the power to leave all along, but you still had to go on this journey to realize you had this a lot of burying the lead in this movie, right, Yeah, So she tapped her heels together three times. She returns home to Kansas a k she wakes up from a dream. It was all a dream? Or was it? We don't know. I think it was a parallel metaphysical universe. I like that theory. Yeah. I mean, if we're going Cannon, we're going to l Frank bomb Cannon. Get ready, I'm gonna talk about some political allegories. Okay, great. Then we got a party Vive going, Yeah, party vun. Let's sorry about all the music that If you guys can hear this music, it's uh, there's a show downstairs in the nerdmult showroom. Do I work there? Yeah? I do, But I don't have any power for making them turn the music down. Please all right, this part out, Let's be completely clear. Party Vive episode party. I like it's very Mary Kay Nashley, You're invited to the party Vive episode of course. Yeah, we're we're in the Party Vive. We're talking about some political party ship. This isn't really like by the time the movie came out in thirty nine, this was no longer relevant. But the L. Frank Bomb, like Original Kids story, was supposed to be this political allegory that was about America in the eighteen nineties, where we've got Dorothy She's the every and very naive every woman. Scarecrow represents the farmers, tin Man represents industrial workers. Cowardly Lion is a metaphor for William Jennings Bryan, which I'm sure was hard hitting stuff at the time, but I do not know who that is. Uh. And then there it gets a little bit racist. Uh So the Wicked Which of the West was supposed to actually represent the American West because this is around some gold rush ship people are out in California looking for gold. And then the flying Monkeys are supposed to represent the indigenous people out in the West that people were you know, uh, actively massaccurring so as to access the gold. Unclear where L. Frank Baum stood on this, but he did make them evil which monkeys, So chances are he was not a fan and he wanted the gold, but I don't know. But anyways, just some fun context. I appreciate it as my question. But at the end, when Dorothy melts the witch, all the guards and everyone was like, oh, thank god, we've been under that spell. That's true. That's true. So maybe maybe the you know, indigenous people were under the spell of the West of the Gold. They're under the gold spell. They got a gold fever. I gotta get it there, I gotta get I gotta heaven, right, and then oh yeah, and then okay that every man is like, hey, there's no gold. And then the person who's like hey, there's gold melts and then everyone's like, wait a second, We've been duped, We've been dooped. It's almost intertaining. There's more to life than gold in money, not in consumer is. But well, I mean in munchkin Land you have all the different guilds, the Lollipop guild, that's the hood union things, because that's not a friend of the book. Yeah, I would. I mean maybe the guards who work at the witches Castle, they have their own union, but they like they're having trouble, Like the guards are actually saying something too, and I always forget what it is. But there s all we own. We oh, like any wealth that they own like they actually owe to continue to speculate as it's always all we own, we owe her. Oh that's the winky chant because the guards are called the Winkies, and it's like more cannon ship. There's the land of the Winkies. That's pretty deep though, right right? I wonder whose idea was to chant that doink? The witch was like, you know what we should make clear? You owe me around the castle. How powerful that it's a woman. This is a very female centric movie. All the females are in charge in this movie, and um, yes, my regult in charge a bit for sure, totally. I don't know if I wanted to say that on this gast, but for sure a cred terrible woman. And she owns a lot of land, which was I imagine was kind of uncommon for that era. But now I'm a strong Christian woman. I can't tell you what was she gonna tell what? She was going to call her a country? I would have loved to hear that in like the Newsy's accent that everyone's spoken at that time. Do you know what I really liked though about this movie is when Dorothy was like, and am I am? They're gonna take Toto and she's like, not now, Doroth. They were counting chickens and they're just counting these chickens and they're like, if she just goes, that's seventy and over seventy chicks. It's like what your chicks might die, That's what they're saying. It's like this incubator's gone bad, and now we got to count all the chick How many chickens? Do they need a lot of chicks? No, but they also have hogs. They must be wealthy. They got hogs if they were wealthy. Moment, everyone take your hogs out. Hogs out? How did I not write that down? Is a thing to say and this episode that we should be saying hogs out in every episode. And I think we've gotten close. Yeah, not quite. You heard it first on the Boogie Nights episode, and since then I think we've mentioned it. It's true. So if you're listening to podcast right now, about that hug and continue to listen to the discourse. Okay, here's a curious thought I had before we get into some really cool and like intelligent discussion. I want to know where does the red brick road go? Where? Oh, you know, in the the spiral, So in one direction it takes the yellow brick road. But then inside that spiral, there's a red brick road that goes elsewhere. Why don't we ever find out about that? Probably just goes to a suburb, Yeah, goes to Cleveland Road. Maybe she should have just gone that way and then she wouldn't have had to meet all those dumb guys. Is is what the Wizard of Oz in public domain? Because I want to like readapt this and find out where the red brick Road goes the Wizard of like the book, I don't think so did they address it like in Return to Oz or anything like that. That's a good question. I don't know. I don't really remember that much about this movie. I didn't. I mean I had three versions of it, but I didn't enjoy it. I've never seen no It's it's one of those like, oh it's a dark reimagine. I don't know. Just let me have my fun two eighties. If you ask me, it's extremely eighties. I did, but I enjoy The Whiz. I you know what, I've never seen The Wiz either. I really want to watch it. But if you ever get a chance, watch the Muppet Wizard of Oz. That's a fun one. Wait, who's Dorothy? And that one shop? I know Queen Latifa's Auntie m And then is it Ashanti? I think you might be right. I remember there's the one with Zoe Deschanelle and that was that was tin Man. That was like a original like mini series or something. Yeah, I watched the whole thing. I didn't care for. Ashanti is Dorothy. Also, Jeffrey Tambor is the Wizard in that movie, which I did not remember. Well, now you know know, oh, Wizard of Oz is public domain. Aristotle just looked it up. Thank you. Okay, So I'm gonna write a new I'm gonna I'm gonna write a script about the Red Brick Road. I wasn't I didn't think of this. But can can I say something very embarrassing that I did when I was thirteen? Okay? So I was a precocious young child. I were back brace had a lot of free time, uh, not a lot of friends. So what I decided to do in junior high when I was getting really really into the Wizard of Oz, I was like, I'm gonna right a sequel to the Wizard of Oz, And I wrote a like a really long I guess it was like a book that I wrote and I was like twelve, and then I registered it with the I Bray of Congress. So somewhere there is a copy of Wizard of Oz sequel I wrote, non Cannon, perhaps a fun read. I have no way of knowing there's exactly one copy of it in the entire world. But I was very proud of it, and it was away for me to not have friends for an entire year and feel fine. How many pages was it? I don't know. I know that I remember googling on you know, my parents dial up internet, how long is a novel? Finding out that number of words, clearing that number of words, and being like, all right, how do we wrap this up? We did it, We did it. We got there. WHOA, so you wrote like a full yes ship man. She said she had no friends. I had no friends for a year. That's plenty of time to write. Just impressed that someone of that age. Yeah, I didn't and I couldn't. I couldn't. Yeah, I was trapped in prison. I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh at that. All I did was take algebra tests and think about the Wizard of Oz. Did you enjoy? No, I didn't. I wanted. I don't. I was bad. I was bad. I was very bad mass and I wanted to be good at it, but it wasn't. If you remember from the Mean Girls episode, I was a mathlete. I know you were. I was. I was a woman. I was a woman. Hey, let's talk about the female characters in this movie. Sure, we've got as you already mentioned, basically, any woman on screen is probably in charge and if something, she's uh, you know, strong and powerful. We got Anti m, who we don't see on screen that much, only really in the beginning and then right at the very end. I love Anti M. I love when she screams for Dorothy in the middle of the like Dorothy, like that they barely look for her, like there. Yeah, I wonder if that happens after the right after the movie ends, like, wait a second, did you try to find me? We had just closed the doors too. Yeah, the storms sound like it's too it's too damn. They're clothed. Uncle Henry. He came down hard. She was like, let's look for our niece, and we're just like, no, get in here. Then she's like, all right, you're right she's not our biological daughter, she's just our sister's daughter, which we don't know what happened, We don't know, So that's pecked up my sequel for speculation, right, and then Doro think it's knocked unconscious by what when clearly a plastic window hitting her in the arm. It was a glass window pane with wood. Hard to watch, the back of the head, hard to watch, hard to watch. I do remember being like very startled by it as a kid, like when I'd have to close my eyes when I knew that part was about to happen, because it would always startle me when the window comes out of the bam. Hey speaking startling. As a kid, we used to look for the guy who hung himself. Did you guys do that? Yes, yeah, yes, But then once they was pumped it up to high, they took it out. It's a bird, yeah, or that's what they'll tell you, Wizard. But even in the old VHS tapes they had the hanging man. Oh yeah, for sure. Hey, you're going to Culver City later Culver City hotel, and they had like a Wizard of Oz diorama like in the front of their hotel, and so I stopped because I'm like, hey, this is relevant to my interests. Apparently, the Munchkins were staying at the Culver City Hotel and the Culver City Hotel to their discredit, they tout in the diorama that they had the Munchkin sleep for to a bed during the production of the movie. It says it in the diorama. I don't know a lot about this, but like, I mean, were they being exploited? Was there like exploitation happening? Like technically yes, but I don't think you could find like someone who participated in that movie as a Munchkin that felt that way. Not that I It used to be two of my favorite early YouTube searches were like Munchkin interviews now and Titanic Survivor interviews now. I just like to watch withered old people talk about the good old days. Yeah, but I think most of the Munchkins seemed they were proud to be a part of it. I don't know if you're okay with it. I can't speak for them, so that's true. We can't speak for them. I can't, But well, I was I wasn't sure if there's any sort of like, um, if they had anyone of them had come forth and been like they were exploiting us or I think a lot of the studios back in the day like exploited all their actors like twelve dollars a day or like thirty dollars, you know, like it wasn't like it was Nelly. They were just like, we know you're gonna work for this amount of money, and if you don't, we're gonna make somebody else's star. So what are you gonna do? You know? Yeah, so if you're thinking yeah, like if we're if we're getting into the nitty gritty, you know, Judy Garland is actively being turned into a drug addict during the production of this exactly uppers down or uppers down Nickey at night saying are you up or you down? And he's like, I don't know. I'm busy thinking ideas. Man, I'm an idea is gonna now come over, try some soda for dogs. They was married, I have a gardener crazy, Okay, I'm not in Chicago, They're sorry. One last thing before we're talking. Most of us is a frank Elbaum park and there's a Wizard of Loss Park. I used to write my bike there and like take walks all the time. When Chicago it was really nice. Oh my god, the first time I visited Chicago, that was like my first stop. Oh yeah, I gotta go Warning for Park for sure. Every tree in that park is since fired the whole park person into flames the second I got there. Yeah, I don't even know where just I mean, this is such an iconic movie, Like everyone knows the story. Everyone knows Dorothy. She's such an iconic character. Is she a good character? Let's talk about it. I mean, I don't think Dorothy is the strongest female character in this movie per se, but I think that she is. She's sort of the avatar that we're supposed to plug ourselves into, and she sort of guides us through Oz And she's also a kid. So it's kind of hard to this hard to make the argument that it's like, why isn't she in charge of it? Like she's a kid, right, How old is she supposed to be? Like a teenager in the book, she's supposed to be like I think eleven or twelve. But also, Shirley Temple was almost Dorothy this movie. It was almost a very I don't think that the movie would have been that I don't know, Rememberable, Yeah, like it would have been another memorable Rememberable y'all got a starry n O. But I think, yeah, I think if Shirley Temple had been in it, it would have been another Shirley Temple movie as opposed to what it is. But Dorothy is supposed to be younger than Judy Garland is in this movie because they like strapped her breasts down for this movie. Like she's supposed to see me younger, even though I think she's fifteen or sixteen and kind of looks it, she's supposed to be like I think twelve, got it? But also like think like she's from a small town in Kansas. Her only friend is Toto. Like she's right or die for this dog, like a woman's going to kill her dog and she's like, we gotta run away. Like so she's in the first of all. Now there's color everywhere, she's seeing all these crazy things. Yeah, like that's insane. It wasn't this the first movie and technicolor. I think it was one of the first wildly released ones. Ok yeah, yeah yeah, and they had the best can you is there a better technicolor gimmick in the world? Then starting and not technicolor than the Big Old Room. It's so good. It's still so good. It rules not unlike Pleasantville that movie starts. That movie came out. Yeah they have the technology, and yeah, so I don't. I wasn't jagged about it. Trying to draw a lot of parallels as many as I can to pleasant Bill grow Up. I think they. I think Dorothy for who she is, is a great female lead. You know, like she does the best she can. She's kind of weirdly leading this ragtag group. Yeah, she doesn't make a lot of I mean, she's the vehicle of this story. She's the driving force. She's like the moral center to which I mean, I guess he's like kind of a traditionally feminine role, but like she helps everyone she can. She doesn't operate against her own moral code at any point. Really, it's no sex, no sexual tension, does not fuck. She does not have She doesn't even have a crush. A crush though, you know at the end where you're like, did she have a crush in the Scarecrow, She's like, I'm gonna maybe most of all, and you're like, all right, I see it, I get it. If you gotta go for one. That's the one you go for. His name is hunk. That guy's kids name is literally he's a hunk. He you know, I really like Ray Bulinger. He was also if you're if you if you like Ray Bulger, you gotta check him out in those follies movies of the late twenties and early thirties. He's great tap dancer. Check out his check out that guy's tapping alright. He did have a lot of Yeah. I mean I would say that yeah, she is, especially for the era. I mean, I think the patrol of women has both gotten like it's gone in different directions, where like sometimes women are portrayed really horribly in mainstream cinema, but we've also like progressed a bit since then. So considering the era of the late thirties when this movie was just I think it's pretty impressive for sure. And then if we get into all the secondary female characters, they're pretty much all for better or worse in charge of something. Because if we start with Annie m she you know, Uncle Henry, he's a he's a du fist, like the best indicator of who he is is just like after Annie um flips out at Miss Gulch and leaves and then Uncle Henry just sit through, like sorry about that. He's like just another day. Like he's just a sweet little simpleton, which which is great and good for him. But you know he's a beta man, a beta male. Yeah, I love a good beta. You know, you gotta love a beta. Uncle Henry is not ashamed. He loves it, except when it comes to hey, get yeah, I'm scared of this tornado typical beta. And then yeah, I mean the other male characters in relation to the female just like they all have some sort of shortcoming where they need to go to the Wizard to like fix this problem, and they're all they're kind of cooks. And these are all things that Dorothy already has. She already has brains, she already has a heart. She didn't ask courage. She just didn't know it, I think, and I don't know. I think she didn't. She was just like, I've got this stuff. I just need to get home. I'm a complete person as is. I'll take all you half men with me so that we can. I think they were full men. They just have been through a lot. Yeah, they had there, and I do appreciate that every single men. You don't have men my men. I got three men. I got three whole men here. No, there's three half men, A one and one and a half man. Hated that television show There's No There. Well, I I I when I was watching it earlier today because I hadn't seen it in three or four months. Baby, But the Scarecrow, tin Man and the Cowardly Lion all at some point do specifically ask her can I come with which is like such a sweet bait of thing to do, like hey, and you're in your way somewhere, but like I promise it won't be too much trouble, and she's like get over here, you dumb like that, or like they're like I have this problem and she's like I'm scared. Okay, it's you can come with us. She's face That's why I love Dorothy. She's like I can fix you, and like this is how I go through life. Get on, I can face you, and then eventually, you know, if I can't, I'm gonna get in this hot air balloon. Gotta go, you know. There's also several different scenes where they're confronted with an obstacle of some sort and like all the other characters are like, oh God, how do we handle this? What do we do? And she's just like, no, this about it. Yeah. For example, whenever the Cowardly Lion is intimidating the tin Man and the Scarecrow, before we know he is, in fact how wardly and he's like chasing around Toto, She's like, Bam, slaps him in the face. Slap. Ever a downward slap, not a slap across the face that horizontal. It's it's a vertical slap. She volleyballs him spike, you know, hot take. I don't like the Cowardly Lion. I find him very abeous. I hate all this forward your King of the Forest every time. I don't like it. I don't like his his other song either, when he's first introduced, because he goes from falling like a baby. Yeah. But even so here the forest, I say, cut it, put back in the deleted number. The Jitterbug. Oh. I have the soundtrack and they good. It's so good that when does that supposed to happen? When they're in the forest, when they're about to get to oz Um and they're hearing like the monkeys and then there it would have dated the movie in a way that it's not dated otherwise. But it's a very catchy little tune where they all do the jitter bug in the forest, and the jitterbug is supposed to be like an actual bug. Catch a little tune. Though I like the cowardly Lion. He's really I feel guilty for not liking him more. I don't know what it is. You could see him being annoying though, Like, yeah, he's annoying. I also like don't like the like aesthetic of him, like the makeup and the costume. He's a little scary. I mean, the suit is like pretty intense, like it's cool. I like the suit. I don't know, maybe maybe maybe I don't like Burt Lar for some can I also say something, just one more thing. She yells at them to get Dorothy out of that hog pen. I wrote this down because I kept cracking up about it. Get Doroth the out of that pin before they worry themselves into anemia. Oh yeah, and then she's like, hickory, I saw you messing with that contraption. She's like, she's like she throws to fly yea she is. He's like, okay, nasty gal basically girl Boss Girl blesses Meryl Streep and double wares. That's anti M. I like any M a lot and I but I really do want to know if Dorothy ever asked her like, hey, did you look for me? Didn't you? And you know, any of them could be like, well barely I call you did run away? To be in my defense, you didn't seem to want to be with me. But there that's another that I would put on what's the name Professor Marvel where Professor Marvel in the in that great scene because I love Frank Morgan where you know, he's pretending to be a psychic and all this stuff, and then he's like your aunt is dying, like go away, and then he sees the storm coming and it's like see you later, like doesn't have her anyhow, He's like, put a girl, hope she makes it drops His weird British accent is like, damn, hope she lives, like just it's why. But he's at the end too and offers no, right, yeah, and sent her out into the twister. Pretty amazing that she didn't fucking gets snuffed by this storm. You know, she just has a severe concussion now, is all. Yeah, But also when you see hunk at the end. I'm like, I get it. Hunk is a hunk. K is a hunk. Also, I know he can tap, So that's just like all right now, I know Subliminally you're like, I'm like, yes, why aren't you that's his last name, Balger. It's like, yeah, you make my pants to you did it. You did it in a mad one. Thing that I noticed that I didn't quite realize before is that Dorothy effectively dreams in three act structure. She has a dream and the story that unfolds is like a perfect movie. Why can't I dream like that? I hear, I am waste to my time getting a master's degree in screenwriting. If I could just get hit on the head and fall asleep and have a dream about like have a movie in a dream, and then I can wake up and be like, I'll just write this down, but like, tell us more about your master's degree. Yeah, okay. She dreams in three acts structure. She also has a dream. We're basically she is like the queen in the world. She like kills a witch and then the munchkins are like, we're gonna make a bust about you. You're going to go down in the Hall of Fame. What delusions of granderees Dorothy have where she's like, you're she's confident in community? Is like she's confident. I like that better? Yeah, I said, yeah. And then well, and let's talk about the witches too, would be remiss to not talk about the witches. Glinda the good witch. She's also in charge of sort of everything. Everyone's always stoked to see her. She's never particularly helpful, sort of just like a wisdom dispense. I will say with Glinda, she is a bit of an antagonist because she when the house dropped on to the east, she had the ruby slippers and the wig, just like what we will get my sister, And she was like, aren't you forgetting something the slippers And she has this look in her eye like you can't do anything. And then when she goes to get the slippers, they go and they're now they're on Dorothy, and she's like, don't worry, Dorothy, those shoes on, don't take them off. She must be very powerful, she wouldn't want them so badly. She knows jus the other question, yeah, she knows the whole time. And then the other thing is like, you know we can wait to the west. I get it, she's a bad guy. We don't like her. However, she just lost her sister. But did she really want those slippers because she knew what those slippers could be? She knew she knew that the infinite? And also, how much power are we putting into accessory? Is that a commentary on something never thought about? It? True? But it doesn't have to be. You know, women be shopping hot access women be love and shoes. I don't know, but I love buying red shoes. There's a little secret with myself. Sorry, I mean, what's the altern I suppose like a medallion, a necklace of some kind. It's always it's always like a piece of yeah, and that he's strolling, or a trinket or the ring, the ring. Do you think that there's a symbolism of Adam and Eve when she goes to pick the apples from the apple trees? Interesting? I just thought about that, and they're like, oh apples. Maybe it's not that's a deep sexual allegoria. It was just like, I did not consent to you touching my apples, and she's like, aut not a word in there, just like, hey, this would be funny, right, I was interested like rewatching at this time. I'm like, damn, those tree costumes are really good. Those you know, because you're watching it and like high deaf, You're like, those tree costumes are still dope and they're a little bit scary. And I think the scarecrow in the tune man are really great too. I'm the lion too, But everything, like the movie is very well done. Shout out to Victor Fleming. What a year for him, truly, because he also directs Gone with the Wind in the same year. Yeah, so this is like, this is his fucking year. And was he a good guy? No? Did he enjoy directing these movies? No, he said that. He said he didn't like it. Well, like every I'm a big old Gone with the Wind head as well. Oh yeah, when she made that dress out of those curtains. Uh, that's the part that we all love as fans well, because he was kind of like, sorry he raped his wife wild Anyways, it's a different episode in the Wizard of Oz. We've got to hand it to them. All one gets right. Congrats? Yeah, I mean okay, Victor Fleming directs both of these movies. He's not the first chosen director for either of these movies, and arguably is kind of like a figurehead for both of them. But great year for him, great year for Victor Fleming, great year for Technicolor. Yeah, I want to go back to Dorothy. Uh. Dorothy, as I was sort of mentioning before, she is like the driving force of the story. Most of her actions influenced the direction of the story takes in some way, so she's like very clearly the protagonist. She does have to be saved at one point whenever the which captures her and locks her in the tower, and she flips over an hourglass and she's like, you have this much time to live, which mocks her. That's good. She always threatening to kill is she like put the dog in the river and drown it. Just man, she is. I mean, I love her. Are like they do have to come in and save her, which is a trope that we are always finding. But I would argue, unlike most got to save the girl in tower tropes, they probably wouldn't have been able to do that had she not infused them with a little bit of self worth and self confidence beforehand. Would the cowardly lion have gone for it if he hadn't met Dorothy and all his new pals first, I would say probably, would say probably not that's true something, but also Okay, she's a lady going on at her own path to get to the wizard, but the witches on her own path to get those shoes. So really the Witch is kind of the powerful one that doesn't need to be saved. I mean, you can look a different way. And as if unless I'm forgetting something, everyone who works for the Witch is a very large man. Yea. The flying monkeys and the winkies. Yeah. Yeah, she has an all male workforce who like are contractually obligated to shout her praises at all times. They're like little worker bees and she's like the queen Bee. Yeah, they all secretly wanted to die, but like, hey, that's part of being the boss sometimes. Yeah. And then, although it happens sort of accidentally, Dorothy does defeat the villain, she throws water on the Witch. Yeah yeah, it's like not she didn't like like a deliberate effort to be like I'm going to defeat you now. She just throws it and it accidentally lands on the Witch. But I mean they get what they she she sets out to do a thing, and then she does it, and the all male workforce are more than willing to embrace her as their new leader. You're like, well, we're used to women in charge over here, you know, you step up now, I think, And she's like, I'm busy, I gotta bust going up in munchkin Land. I'm in their hall of fame, right, Why can't you guys like, how long have you been here? Surely someone knows what's going on. Can we talk about the makeover sequence of the Yeah, they get to the Emerald Frank Morgan plays a great series of characters before we get to the Wizard, and you know, he's like, go away there, no one wants to see you. And then they're like yeah, which is weird. But then even that, like you know, if that was like an all, that's really the only other time we see women in OZ. Besides, you know, there's female Munchkins. They're the witches. And then there are the people in the Emerald City who do the makeover sequence, which I as weird and like, arguably I guess needless as it is, I love the makeover sequence? Can you even dye my eyes to match my probally good tents. It's great, it's great. Yeah, and then they're like, take out those pigtails, let's do an up do and then go meet the Wizard who sucks. He sucks, Yeah, but they look great when they Yeah, the Wizard is like, he's like the biggest cuck of them all. He like, does this whole look fire and Brimstone, I got a huge wizard head and I'm this great and all powerful oz. It's been there before Power Rangers if they even check Hello. And then he turns out to be a total fraud, a phony. And then that's a lot of the guys in this movie. There's not really a female character who's exposed to be a fraud. There are some female characters who are very motivated for evil, unless you're like, but what if you saw the musical Wicked, which shut up? Not the same, it's not the same, Good goodbye. I enjoyed it, but like, go away for now. I'll see the movie when it comes out. Go Away for now? Though, Hey, can I say something really dumb that everyone's gonna hate? Huh? I couldn't help but notice some similarities to Harry Potter, specifically the houses because here's the thing. The line is all about bravery and courage. That's Griffin door tin Man's like, I want a heart. That's kind of a huffle puffy Scarecrow. He wants a brain brains brainiac raven claw, and then I guess the witches Slytherin and then Dorothy for the time, fuck Harry Potter. I checked out because I'm not a big Harry Potter for like ever, Yeah, that was a good time. Well for the family at home who love Harry Potterry Potter is ripped off of something great. Well. When I was at the Fringe, I walked through the graveyard and I did have coffee where J. K. Rowling sat cool. But I didn't know that until people were like, oh rowning, Like yeah, also, to be fair, just making sure my grandma was okay. It's a pure motivation. So I took my text and I was like, no, we'll get that. Harry part is bad, Caitlyn, It's blot is bad, objectively bad. It's it's so I'm sick. I'm all right, let's uh. Does anyone have many final thoughts about the movie? How women are portrayed in the movie. I do have a Harry powder Fall. And it's not mean. It's not mean because I know that we argue about that all the time. But um, I do think that if we're if we're pulling the parallels of like Dorothy and Harry Potter, those are both central characters who are the moral core of the story, and if you look closely, there's not much there. But that's intentional because it's supposed to be like, oh, this is the person that the audience is like, this is me, I'm the star, you know. So it's like just sort of one of those characters where everyone around Dorothy is very interesting and very active and very flawed and all this stuff, and then Dorothy is like she's great, um, and which I think is kind of the same for Harry Potter. And that's I don't know, with the winning formula, Yeah, Harry Potter. Don't argue that Harry Potter is an interesting character. I'll flip this table. No, I wasn't going to. I was gonna say that he is probably the least interesting character of all the characters. And but I think it's kind of on purpose so that, you know, the least you give this person to do besides move through this world of more interesting characters. The more little kids were like, Hey, that's me, right, because if there's nothing interesting about me either. I identify most with the tin Man because I don't heard about I don't know how to feel emotions. Man, this dude gave everything up for his wife, for his for his lover. Yeah, she need the man, that's the story. That's why he got so arrested. He needed an arm, so he chopped off his arm. He needed to live, so he worked and he worked and finally got rusted and then his wife passed away. That's and that's not like you learned that in the book. In the movie too, I think right now the movie boils that part down by quite a bit. But yeah, the tin Man does basically cut off all of his extremities. Exactly why I identify with him. I have no limb. She's literally a chicken nugget, but we love her. I'm just the head. I'm actually the great and powerful oz. I'm just a floating head. But I think in the book they also say that the Tin Man made a deal with the Wicked Witch of the West. Did they, I don't remember. I think I remember that like um for the consciousness or for the brains. There's something there. What is what do the ruby Slippers do besides able you to get back to Kansas? The what if that's the only thing they can do though, take you specifically back to Kansas. I don't know. I mean, I guess in the in the movie version, I can't. I haven't read the book in so long at this point, but I'm sure it's And also in the book they're silver slippers, and then the movie they turned it to ruby because they're like, we've got this book primary, but it is silver slippers throughout the books. I don't really know. I mean, we're I guess we assumed that there they can do. It's like whatever you deeply want the most. The elder one from Harry Potter, Sorry, what are you talking about? I honestly don't know anything. He's he gives it am okay. I know there's fans out there who are like Harry Potter, tweet at me and we'll join a club. We'll join a Harry Potter. Oh. I don't think there's enough Harry Potter fans out there. I think that's the real problem. That's the problem. There's just aren't a worldwide phenomenon or anything. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess we're to believe it would fulfill your deepest desire because that's what Dorothy wants more than anything, is to go home. So that's all powerful. Yeah, all right, I'll believe it, and then Total the most power that like probably the least problematic male in the entire movie. He's a whole man. He's antona. I mean, there are times where totally, like genuinely I forget the specific part, but there are times where totally literally like leads the scarecrow and the line and the tin man in the right direction and they're like, oh wait, let's follow the dog. He's the one who um is like playing with the curtain that the action. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's behind and he pulls it across and he's like, no, don't expose me. Yeah exactly. So Total is the protagonist of this story, is what we're saying. A smart little guy. He's a smart little guy. He's smart dude. Yeah, hey, does the movie past the Bechtel test? It sure does, it does. There's a bunch of different scenes, starting with the Chicks scene. That was the right way I noticed was when Dorothy comes in and it's like, hey, this lady is trying to take my dog and she's like, shut up, I'm trying to count chicks seventy. I hope that that was a hot improvised line, and she was like, what's a depressive number of her chicks? And then a few scenes later, Dorothy Antim and Miss Cultural talking. Miss Culture has come to their house. She's like, give me the dog. I'm taking him away. I have an order from the sheriff. That's when like Auntie M's like, I want to tell you what I think you but I'm a Christian woman, so I can't call you. She also signed twenty three years is as like any three years? That is great improvisation though, right then prophecy and that's depth, that's starting from the middle, that's giving a little background. We're like, wait, tell us more about twenty did you move from WANs a lot of land? You're setting up The scene is as Miss calls to their landlord, we don't know, well, I don't think so, because she's like, just because you own half the county doesn't give you the power the rest of us, Oh, the rest of us. She's like, I'm not owned by you. Also miss calls what year is it get a car? If you're a landowner or you're riding a bike, maybe he wants the exercise. But then where is our She's wearing like a dress that could get caught in the bicycle chains. But wait, even though this was filmed the nineteen nine may not have been set in nineteen because it's a horse in a carriage. He's fixing a cart. True, and they live the horse free when the tornadoes there, Oh yeah they do, and then and then and then even the horse comes back and an emerald in the Emerald city. That used to be my favorite part of the movie is the horse that changes colors, holds of a different color. Talk about dip a pet. Yeah, that pet hard. Yeah, they had to die those like probably several different horses. I remember one time I was watching that movie with all my cousins, and my cousin Chloe was like, the horses like a mood ring. And we were like, whoa, the horses like a mood ring. Just some food for thought for all you intellectuals out there. Uh. There's a few other scenes where it passes the Bechdel test. Whenever Dorothy meets Glinda. She's like, are you a good witch or a bad witch? And she's like, witches are old and ugly, and she's like, that can't beat rue because I'm beautiful. I'm banking hunt her, love her dress. And then the Wicked Witch of the West shows up and then they I'll talk and she's like, who killed my sister her? Was it you? They talk about the ruby slippers. In fact, I think when women are talking to each other in this movie, it's almost never about a man, unless it's about the Wizard or Toto. Toto. Yeah, for viewing Toto as a man, he's male, he's at identifying right they are. They do talk about the Wizard. So let me retract that stupid thing that I said. No, no, no, I mean, but I think that it's ever like a romantic interest, which so you know, this is an unless we're to read in maybe Dorothy has a little crush on Hunk, which I think in this movie world she probably does. If you're dreaming at the end, you're given a nice long hug to the hunk. Figure, who would it? But I mean she's twelve. Towards the end, it passes the beck to test again, Dorothy is in the Witch's castle. She's like, give me back my dog, and she's like give me my fucking slippers and she's like no, all conversations the past, the back to test. So yeah, I mean I think, yeah, I think you're right that almost every exchange between women in this movie, which there are a fair amount of passive actel test and it was nice to like watch it with that in mind and be like, oh, you know, it passes as well as I would hope it would. It passes better than The Women, which does not pass the factel test amazingly. Wait did does it? There are very small exchanges where they're not talking about high but there You're right. There wasn't a single man on screen the entire movie, which is amazing. Yeah, but also they're never not talking about, ever not talking about It's crazy. I'll give it another shot, but I don't think i'll ever like it anyway. Um let's write a Wizard of Oz on our nipple scale. We uh write the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women. I'm going to give it five nipples. Dorothy, I think is a strong character, especially considering the time, very iconic female protagonist then in this movie is like the test of time, and she's in our logo for crying out like she is in our logo. Yeah, illustrated by our very own Jamie Loftus. I just picked the ones I liked. She drives the story. She's making a lot of decisions. She does have to be saved, but as you pointed out, would the people who saved her have the tools to even do so if she had not empowered them in the first place. That's a great example of setting yourself up on the back end so that when you're in a fucking spot, you're like, well, at least I trained these people to rescue me. Yeah. And then the other female characters, they're you know, they're distinct, they're in charge of stuff, they're making that they're doing their own stuff. They can count to seventy at least least, but she kept counting put them in a half. Uncle Henry meanwhile, I was like, I didn't graduate past the sixth grade. I don't. He's just like, yeah, I mean, especially compared to the men in the story, a lot of them are beta males. A lot of them have like get a beta male counter on this how many time betas on the brain. A lot of them are like, you know, subordinates of a woman who's in power, Give me your subordinates. This is I think pretty sure what's written on the statue of so Yeah, I'm gonna say it's five five nipples, and they all belong to the cowardly lion because he is a feline with I think cats have I like it. Yeah, cat, that's a They might even have eight, like even the boys. All boys have nipples. All embryos start out but six as female, and then as we learn in Jurassic Park, there's but six. I think six for boys too. I'm gonna look it up. NTO, I say it's a five nipple cast around. I feel like I've argued my points, and even when she needed to be rescued, it was still being rescued from a woman who wanted the shoes back for infinite power. True. Okay, here we go, eight eight nips. I like that. The picture is a cat with a banana nipples. Google how many nipples does a cat have? And then in like a very large fun eight nipples, and then a photo with a cat someone holding a banana to the cat to entice it and all eight of its nipples. I give this movie eight nipples. No, I give it. I give it five nipples too. I mean, I think especially for I mean, if you're going on the yardstick of nine, if we're going on the yardstick of Mickey Rooney's Sir Killer, which would not pass the factial test because it is Mickey Rooney's Weeney World. But I think, yeah, this whole story does a great job of empowering its female characters, almost as a bonus. It's like, and all the men are flawed in one way or another, and that's that's fun, but all the female characters are great. And give it five nips. And give two nips to the Wicked Witch of the East, because we don't get to see her nips. We get to see everyone has a nips, just her feet. We get to see so many nips in I'll give two of those nips to Judy Garland's bound down nips. So she looked a little more twelve, but she didn't look twelve, so it's almost just like, let her nips go free. And then I'll give one nip to the line even though apparently he had seven others. Great Hey, ever, This has been a delight so much. Thank you so much here and talking about this movie with us. Do you have anything you'd like to plug? Where can people find you online? You can find me online at ever Maynard, emmy I and a r D dot com. You can find me on Twitter at ever Maynard, Instagram at ever Maynard Facebook at a Remaynard Snapchat. Butthole Snapper sixty nine that we almost had full synchronicity and then we had snapchat. Um, when does this go up? This will go up mid June. Okay, you can catch me and Caitlyn will be there too for Maynard Town the next edition and and um, hell yes, if you live in Los Angeles, come to the nerd Mount show room. Ever Maynard puts on a show called Maynard to improvised town hall meeting. I play the safety patrol officer, self appointed, self appointed, talk about an empowered female care No one's gonna put me in charge. I'll put myself, put Caitlan in a corner. It's dangerous there. Cool. Well, we're off to see the Wizard. Well, anyways, thank you for having me, because thank you so much. It's been a real my card Limonde that we own we are good night, bye bye,