Styles and Reese Shine at Combine, Latest Trade Rumors, and Dan Morgan and Dave Canales Join the Show

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we've got a perfect relative athletics score. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm in my garage back in Los Angeles, in front of a live studio audience of one my son across the country, free and fresh from Lucas Oil Stadium. It is Nick Shook, back in his hotel room at the end of a long day watching prospects. I am happy to see you again, Nick.

00:00:31
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, it's funny. I think it's the last three or four years we both go to the combine. We fail to see each other at the combine like two ships passing in the night. So it is good, indeed to see you again as well.

00:00:42
Speaker 1: And look, the NFL Daily fans, the Shook ones out there have been saying where's Nick. Last time we talked to him was on the Super Bowl show, and so only big time shows for Nick. We're going to go through the front seven and the defense worked out on Thursday in Indianapolis, the defensive lineman, the edge players, of course, the linebackers. Great day for a lot of them, especially those linebackers. Will also do a little bit of news. We had a trade. It's already starting to happen, some other releases, some other little bits and bobs, and then at the end of the show, we're going to listen to a couple of interviews I did before I left town with the Panthers brain trust. Definitely a rising team until we talked to GM Dan Morgan and the coach Dave Canalis. But just give me a little big picture of your overall day before we start breaking down the different positions. You're in the stadium watching it. How did you think day one went here at the twenty six combine.

00:01:40
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the overall day, it always begins with with your player interviews. And I listened to Caleb Downs so we'll be working out tomorrow, talk about how he believes that when he steps in the field, he knows he's the best player. If he told if you claimed that he thought somebody else was, it would be a lie, is what he said. And then he continued with the workouts and we had some really really intriguing guys in the defensive line that I'm very curious to see where they'll all fall in the draft. You didn't have a couple of guys that were big names participating with the edge rushers you had Sunny Styles blow up the combine and the deepest linebacker like class that I believe I've seen in my basically a decade covering this combine.

00:02:20
Speaker 3: I think this is the deepest group yet.

00:02:22
Speaker 1: And I love that you mentioned Caleb down to what we'll hear from tomorrow. We'll watch Jeremiah Love, the running back from Notre Dame later in the week. And it is really interesting because I think if you go around and just ask people in Indianapolis, who's the best player in the draft, kind of take away the position. So you know, Mendoza's Fernando Mendoz is going to be the number one pick. Who's just the best player in the draft. There's a lot of different players who could you could make the case for in maybe Sunny Styles. The Ohio State linebacker put himself in that mix with a huge combine performance. I think he saw three of them today. We just mentioned two more of them, and it's just one of those wide open drafts. So let's start there. Sunny Styles blew up the combine and and look, his teammate Rvel Reese was not far behind. These are two guys that were already in the top five of a lot of people's boards, even if they weren't. In mock drafts. Daniel Jeremiah had them both in his top five rvel Reese number two overall. But Styles was an absolute tank just in the measurements. If you're someone that was online all day, it was just watching this dude's case build and build throughout the day because his just body is an absolute tank. And then he performed. I don't think it's exaggerating, like one of the best linebackers slash, just pure player performances maybe we've ever seen at the combine.

00:03:43
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:03:43
Speaker 2: Absolutely, It's funny because you're right, it did start with the measurements. Then it started with the testing that happens on the side, and I remember hearing like an audible pop when he hit his vertical jumps as they're you know, doing their testing before the linebackers come out and do their job, and I'm thinking, oh, somebody just jumped, you know, put a big number up. And then we have the broadcast playing in the suite. Moments later they cut to it. It's Sunny Styles, and I'm thinking, all right, this is the athletic player that I've known as an Ohio State fan. Was always there, the guy that was good enough to earn the block O jersey aka Number zero with Ohio State this past season, finally kind of showing off his athleticism to the rest of the pro football world. And then he goes out and he runs the fastest forty if any guy in the linebacker group, which also includes rvel Reeves as the only edge rusher in that group, and he's the heaviest of all the linebackers, did it at the highest weight, put the fastest forty time down, cementing the triple crown with the broad jump eleven foot two inch broad jump, the crazy vertical jump, the forty time, and then he crushes all the drills.

00:04:42
Speaker 3: He just dominated the combine.

00:04:43
Speaker 2: It's one of those performances that we're going to look back on years from now and that's going to be the new standard that all these other guys are going to aspire to try to reach.

00:04:52
Speaker 1: So they still have the agility of drills. I guess they separated those by days. So technically the route the testing is in die and the relative athletics score which is put together isn't exactly complete, but right now he would be ranked first out of thirty two hundred and fifteen linebackers.

00:05:11
Speaker 2: When the NFL sat again to set it again, see it again, thirty two hundred and fifteen three thou two hundred and fifteen linebackers.

00:05:18
Speaker 1: Well, literally the best vertical leap ever, I think from the position the fourth best I think in terms of the broad jump. I might be mixing up those two, but either way, they were right there. Like the comps in terms of his heightweight speed were DK Metcalf, Nick M and Worry. And to do that as a linebacker six foot four, two hundred and forty four pounds, like huge arms, wingspan at like bigger than almost anyone else, and a guy that the tape backs it up that it's just these two different styles. Now, I think among maybe people who aren't, you know, among the average Draftnick he was ranked a little lower, like he's twelfth on the consensus, But for instance, DJ had him fifth, and I think the league maybe already viewed him higher. And I think this crazy day that he had Jeremiah said it on the broadcast, is now going to maybe put him at least in that discussion where you're thinking about is this guy a top five pick? Is five even gonna be like the floor for him if you think about the Giants who would need him, and could the Jets be thinking, hmm, are we now deciding between Sonny Styles, Rvel Reeves, David Bailey like among those three guys for the number two overall pick.

00:06:34
Speaker 2: It's a good problem to have, and I think it kind of gives you a good example of what can happen to a player's reputation from their junior year to their senior year or whatever, their their penultimate year to their final year in college if they are lined up next to somebody who absolutely blossoms in the following year.

00:06:51
Speaker 3: Because that's what's happened to Sony Styles.

00:06:53
Speaker 2: He's always been this linebacker, like, for example, he was always my dad's favorite linebacker at Ohio State. He loves was how he said his name right. But Arvilla Reese explodes this year and becomes this dominant player and ends up being the more prominent defender in this nation's best defense, this Ohio State defense that had ballers at every level. At Caleb Downs back there, you had Rees, and you had Styles, you had McDonald at the defensive line. That they had guys at every level, And so people kind of forgot about styles. Even the draftnicks kind of forgot about styles because when you thought about that defense, you thought about Reese and his production, and again it just overshadowed what he did. But this is how you can rescue your draft stock by coming out here and being an athletic freak on the biggest stage in the pre draft process and taking back your narrative and shooting back up the draft board. And it opens up this debate that's like threefold, which is you go between Reese and Bailey. It's kind of like the Aiden Hutchinson versus Trayvon Walker debate of a few years ago. Which one do you take at number one or versus number two, the more polished producer who ended up being Hutchinson or the guy with the higher upside who was Walker. That's essentially what people view Reese as well. And I can throw Styles into the mix, not as a one to one comparison, but also another candidate for these teams like the Jets, who have a lot to determine.

00:08:05
Speaker 3: And it's a good problem to have if.

00:08:06
Speaker 4: You're the Jets.

00:08:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I want to focus on the combine tonight because we're going to dive into these players deeper throughout the process. But it is funny to me because I saw someone write about sunny styles. This might be one of the best like inside linebacker prospects we've seen in a long time. And I'm thinking, what about RL Reese because sees him as an edge and at least the guy who split his time pretty equally at edge and off ball linebacker. But he goes out tonight and he runs a four to four six. The official times actually were the exact same. He is an absolute tank. During both of the position drills, they looked incredible. Their ten yards splits were incredible, and there are there's reasonable minds can disagree, but you know, we we're going to talk to Ali Connelly on the show throughout the draft process, and he really thinks recently is going to be better as an off ball linebacker. He thinks he's he's a linebacker guy, and he thinks Reese is the best linebacker prospect potentially since Luke Keigley. And so that's two guys on one team. You're in the building before we move on from these two kind of what what did you see out of their position drills?

00:09:16
Speaker 2: In Ree specifically, it's so funny that you mentioned that, because I was going through this in my head as we're watching all of this happen and listened to DJ on the broadcast talk about how he sees Reese who's gonna, you know, his but his bread's gonna be buttered at edge in the NFL, and I'm thinking, Okay, I get that, I understand that, But that's actually the biggest question mark on his resume as of now is how you know developed of a pass rusher?

00:09:36
Speaker 3: Are you?

00:09:37
Speaker 2: He was a very good edgesetter when he played up on the ball at Ohio State, but he was a really dynamic linebacker off the ball no matter who they played, whether it was Texas in their first game of the season, Michigan in their last game of this regular season, he was always the guys making plays from the second level, shooting the run gaps, doing whatever was necessary to really make a huge difference. No matter what game you put on, he was always there as their best defensive player. And I think that it would kind of sell him short to just force him into the edge rusher role when we've seen significant amounts of tape at least over one season in which he can thrive at that position and was a difference making player on the best defense in college football. And the comparison I came to in my head was kind of the arc of Micah Parsons, because when Parsons came out of Penn State, he did a little bit of both as well. And when he started with the Cowboys, he was off ball as much as he was on ball, and he was a sideline to the sideline player, and eventually he was kind of forced into the edge rushing role. Now, of course, you can do what the Packers did with him this year, which is line him up in the a gap from time to time to show you some weird pressure looking freak out the offensive lineman and produce pressures.

00:10:40
Speaker 3: And you could do that with Reese too.

00:10:41
Speaker 2: I just think that if you're going to maximize his talent pinning him into the sand or into the edge rushing position and just asking him to hunt the quarterback, I think you're selling yourself short on what you could potentially get, especially the guy who's going to get drafted as highly as he's going to be.

00:10:55
Speaker 1: Right, I think Parsons it became clear at the that he was just better. He was better as an addresser. I think I am excited to go through the tape more. But in terms of instincts and just having a natural feel for the position, I think it might be a different conversation for NFL teams of just Okay, let's see what it can do. And obviously having that ability as a blitzer is always going to be a huge, huge plus. You kind of need that at the NFL level. That's where the best linebackers are anyways. So it's fascinating since you were there, though, like what did you see just from those two guys and at in terms of the position drills in the stadium? Like what did you like?

00:11:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, That's why I kind of mentioned the whole strength of the class as a whole, because there's been many years where I've sat there and there's maybe one or two guys that you're like, Okay, this guy's a stud. The rest of them forgettable. We'll see how long they last in the NFL. This group this year had a ton of talented guys, and if it wasn't for recent styles at the top of the class, there were multiple other guys who would have been the best linebacker in their class in previous years. And they get overshadowed by the two buck eyes. But when you watched Reese, you watch Styles. First off, they're polished. Their explosive just fluidity is off the charts. They are natural athletes. I thought watching Reese finish a play where like you know, you're running through the cone at the end and then watching the next guy do it, and I'm like, there is a noticeable gap in how quickly they get from point A to point B, and the same was true with Styles. Now he stumbled a couple of times, but to kind of paint the picture of how explosive he is as as an athlete.

00:12:25
Speaker 3: They're doing this pass rushing drill.

00:12:27
Speaker 2: They're going around the bag and he wipes out, but he wiped out like incredibly violently before getting up and trying to finish the drill. Like that's how explosive of a player he is. And you could just see the difference between those two and the rest, although the difference wasn't as wise as it would be in a typical year because there is so much other talent. I think about the Texas tech Jacob btt Rodriguez, Kid Betcher from Oregon, I thought I did really well and the drills, didn't test quite as well. There's a number of other guys, as a kid from Cincinnati that is also a very good linebacker. So there's a lot of depth in this group, more than I've seen over the last decade. But it's very clear who the top two guys are.

00:13:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jacob Brodriguez from Texas Tech didn't know how he would test and ran really well, looked really good for his size. A guy maybe believed to be kind of a late too, he might have pushed himself up before we move on from the linebackers to the lineman. If if you've got any other shout outs at linebacker, go for it. If not, tell me what you stuck out to you most at defensive line.

00:13:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, the kid from Cincinnat's name is Jake's Jake Goldey. I think he was a guy that most people expected to test pretty well, and then he lived up to that and then also did really well in the drills, and I think he earned himself some money tonight. Wesley Saint, I think that's how you say it from Miami. He didn't test really well, but I love the way he looked in the drills. He made a super athletic grab running down the line in one of the early change of direction drills and kind of made a lot of plays like that throughout his workout on the field.

00:13:54
Speaker 3: I thought he was good.

00:13:55
Speaker 2: There's this under six foot linebacker from pitt his name's Kyle Lewis, and I think he's basically a box safety, but he was really quick because I think he's a box safety. Jack Kelly from BYU had a strong showing, and then you had the kid from Duke and then Anthony Hill Junior from Texas as well. That was like my honorable mentions group from this overall linebacking group. But I mean, there's this is the first time where I put together three linebackers for the All Combine team and felt really good about all.

00:14:20
Speaker 1: Right, like your All Combined team, we're gonna be hitting the rest of the positions. On a Sunday night recap show, Nick Shook is working long hours there in Indianapolis, and yeah, it is crazy how many linebackers, for instance, Rodriguez, Kyle Lewis you mentioned, who are kind of projected to be in that day to range. So just like a really deep year at the position. Let's go to the edge spot where you know, the headline was definitely David Bailey, very slight favorite right now to be the number two overall pick in terms of the if you wanted to get into the wagering of it all in Vegas, tell me about his day as as kind of edge one.

00:15:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, here's the thing so I had.

00:15:05
Speaker 2: I was kind of confused about how to organize these because of the Reese discussion that we just had right because they.

00:15:11
Speaker 1: Could be anywhere whatever you want to put him Bailey.

00:15:13
Speaker 2: Bailey is the most polished edge out there. But we also didn't see ruben Bain perform. We didn't see Masidor perform. Both of the Miami edge rushers, they did not participate in the on field workout. There was also the talk about ruben Bain's arm length that we've heard all week, and that was another topic today when he came in under thirty one inches, which was a mild surprise to even those who thought they had him, you know, projected best. But for the guys that were on the field, Bailey right now has the most complete package for somebody that's pro ready as an edge rusher.

00:15:43
Speaker 4: He did.

00:15:43
Speaker 2: He posts a four five forty twelve nine broad jump, you know, crushed it and actually I think it was ten nine on the broad ject at twelve nine and huge vert.

00:15:53
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:15:55
Speaker 2: His athleticism score was eighty from next Gen and he was solid throughout the drills. He's a natural athlete, like he's just he has that burst. He just looks like like the fit of an edge rusher. The way he moves, you can just tell it's a pro level guy. But there was an interesting detail I found in his workout that I didn't notice before, and I don't really think it's gonna matter all that much. He fired his feet at a higher rate than I've seen anybody else do on the field in quite a while at that position group and among the guys that he was on the field with tonight.

00:16:24
Speaker 3: But there was an interesting way that he went around.

00:16:26
Speaker 2: Some of the turns and these like agility drills where you're changing direction, whereas like some guys might take three steps to get around a corner and they might cut really sharply, and Bailey's feet are so fast that like he like pedals them down and like rotates around the turn. And I'm like, that's unique, and I wonder how that's going to translate. But you can't deny the production at Texas Tech. He was a huge difference maker and he's it's totally justified for him to be considered a top five pick.

00:16:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. Then, and they showed him on one of those drills kind of matching him up with another one of the players. Now I forget which one was. I don't think goes cash as hell and and they and they looked almost too similar in a way. The DJ kind of hinted just that like just like a hint of stiffness, which is is crazy and it's probably nitpicking, but when you went with his measurements and his size, like the closest comp was von Miller, which is just but he doesn't seem to necessarily have that sort of same bend. I mean, who does that?

00:17:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the bend.

00:17:25
Speaker 1: The bend is not there, right, but that's the all time bend guy I did. Like next Gen stats has a production score of just like total production over the last five years. And here's your top five players over the last five years. Number one was Will Anderson. Now I forget what the order was. Bailey is in the mix there. Then it's Abdull Carter, Aiden Hutchinson is in the mix as well, and Reuben Bain was also in that top five, So that's a good list to be on. I mean, you can't you can't mess with that production. And going back to yeah, you talked about the short arms, There's never been a top one hundred pick at that position with sub thirty one inch arms. A lot of people, though, say the way that he wins with his powers and the counters that he's actually come up with and leverage, like the short arms are almost an advantage for him, and he's kind of shown he can overcome it at a high level. Also, Adam Schefter had a very funny tweet that said, actually two teams measured him at thirty two inches and these combine measurements have been really small over the years. So yeah, you definitely wonder where Adam Schefter is getting that information. I'm sure it was coming from the Ruben Bain camp. But I don't know where you're at in terms of concerns, because remember the whole Aiden Hutchinson deal, like a couple of years ago. Of his short arms obviously hasn't been a problem for him, but Bains was like another inch inch and a half I think shorter.

00:18:55
Speaker 2: I really only care about if you have short arms as if you're a speed guy, because if you're gonna win the speed, the best way to do is to keep offensive lineman's hands off of you, and usually need the length as well to prevent them from It's like boxing, like the longer reach you can find on the outside with a longer reach, right, So the same thing kind of applies for ed rushers who win the speed.

00:19:14
Speaker 3: Speed is not Bain's game. Bains game's power.

00:19:17
Speaker 2: He's not gonna care if you get your hands on him and his arms are short, because he's got the power to overcome that. So I don't really care about the arm length thing.

00:19:24
Speaker 3: I think.

00:19:24
Speaker 2: I think I've seen enough from his production at Miami to know that he is a stud, and he's going to be a stud at the next level. Take him, don't worry about the length, and if he slides because the length a little bit, then good for the team that's there to scoop him up. And it also kind of points to like we talked about hand size with quarterbacks. I only care about hand size if you're catching or holding the football as a running back, not as a quarterback. It really doesn't matter to me. We think about Kenny Pickett in his small hands, and you can continue to go down the list with different guys. I think about Ricky Williams had small hands that mattered, he had a fumbling issue early in his career.

00:19:53
Speaker 1: I'm a little worried about Drake May's hand size after seeing him play in the cold in the playoffs.

00:19:58
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, but it's just like, I don't care as much about those measurements unless there's another player in this group, for example, that I think the arm length does matter because while Bain's arms are short, cash Is hal from Texas A and M had even shorter arms, and he is a speed winner, and I think that he lost a good amount of stock today because of his short arms, And it just the athleticism score doesn't match up when you consider those measurements. And then you watch his workout on the field and you're like, Okay, I see the fluidity and the speed there, but something's lacking that I don't think he's the first round pick that a lot of people think that he is. And so that's a case where measurement kind of does matter because of the style that he plays with it doesn't apply to Baine, though.

00:20:38
Speaker 1: Interesting he was a guy who, according to NGS, was the fastest in terms of the pass rush drill where it's like rounding the corner that he was moving the fastest, and that apparently matches up with his game tracking. He's from A and M more of a speed rusher, a guy projected for maybe the middle ish, maybe middle late of the first round. So it's interesting. It's it's maybe what you like because you could see that and say he's he's moving the fastest around the corner, and you get excited. I saw some other guys who just like, did not look at smooth Keldric Falk. I believe it was yes who just did not look as smooth to me in the drills. Give me some of your favorites and I guess least favorites too out of the edges.

00:21:25
Speaker 2: Well with Hal, he also ran a four five nine forty, which was not fast enough given you know his archetype that he's a speed player. So I honestly think that he may have fallen out of the first round entirely after Wow, which is unfortunate, but that could be the reality. When it comes to Falk, I'm glad you said that, because I felt like, you know, he came in, He's a kid from Auburn, and he came in with a lot of promise, expected to be a first round pick, and a lot of his drill was just the half hazard in a way like it was just it wasn't clean. A lot of his reps were not clean. There were good moments. I thought he got stronger as the workout progress once he gets to running the hoop, that sort of thing that usually separates some of your premier players from the rest of the pack, and I thought that he was very good in that.

00:22:04
Speaker 3: But earlier drills, you know.

00:22:07
Speaker 2: Slips, stumbles, that sort of thing, not the quickest in change of direction.

00:22:10
Speaker 3: I was a bit surprised by that.

00:22:13
Speaker 2: So he did not end up making it onto the top of my group, but he did end up in the houniable mentions because of the way that he finished. Other guys that I liked at edge rusher George Gums, which sounds like a fictional name, but he comes from Florida and I thought he had a very impressive workout. Romelo Height from Texas Tech, very explosive, good burst on him as well.

00:22:34
Speaker 3: Max Lowland. I think that's how you say from Iowa.

00:22:38
Speaker 2: He's a classic Iowa edge rusher, kind of not really in the mold of Lucas van Ness, but similar just because you see kids from Iowa and they usually fit these certain archetypes, and he definitely fits it. But he was very polished. You could tell he'd play a lot of football with the Hawkeyes. Vincent Anthony Junior from Duke, that's actually the Duke kid that I referenced earlier. I had him in the wrong position group. And then Mason Rieger from wiscond much like kids from Iowa, Wisconsin edge rusher, who is very polished, very controlled, and a little more explosive than I thought he was. When he got into some of those the short zone drop drills, he had more burst than I thought. So I'm very intrigued by him because a lot of his reps were when he came to fundamentals, they were they were done very well.

00:23:18
Speaker 1: Are you saying that Iowa has a type, you know, like Iowa definitely has a type Kurcha type.

00:23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's exactly what I was thinking, except he's faster Thanesa was.

00:23:28
Speaker 1: Hey, they're the only ones that saw pass color and gave Riley Moss a chance to play cornerback. Or maybe they didn't see pass color, but either way, they took advantage about to get a great second contract here, so someone else should have should have snapped him up. Let's fly through the defensive tackles before we take a break. I'm fascinated by Caleb Banks, the Florida Prospect. You know, in general, this was an interesting group because you know, DJ has four guys kind of in that like late first early second group, and they're all close. Lee Hunter of Texas Tech, Caden McDonald of Ohio State looked like had a fun day. Caleb Banks is also in that mix and in Caleb Banks is a big dude six six three twenty seven the longest wingspan of any defensive lineman since nineteen ninety nine, that's just when they started building it, so basically he has the longest wingspan in the history of the combine. He kind of looks like the Forrest Buckner out there, except he's like broad jumping and athletically testing even better than that. Do you think he's a he's a player and who stood out to you?

00:24:37
Speaker 5: Yeah?

00:24:37
Speaker 1: He did.

00:24:37
Speaker 2: He actually doesn't end up making my all Combine team. But it's not really not against him. He just didn't jump out as much as a couple of the other guys in the drills, so they did, but all the things that you just meant went over, you know, puts him up there in that group. I actually think it's a very deep defensive tackle class this year because let's think about like Peter Woods from Clemson, like doesn't get out there and participate in the drills, doesn't run a forty, but his measurable stack up he's usually at the top of this group. And some of the other guys that you just mentioned are also in there. But I also some of the guys that jumped out to me on the field that are not in this group that most consider. Zane Durant from Penn State puts down the fastest forty time as a defensive tackle, which how much do you care about that? Think about Jordan Davis for me for a few years back, and you're like, well, does that really matter that much?

00:25:22
Speaker 1: It doesn't accept tend though too. Zane Durant look crazy exactly. His explosion was different from the rest.

00:25:28
Speaker 2: Sometimes when you sit up in the suite at the combine and you see these guys perform, there's one or two that just move differently than the rest. I think about. Tristan Wurfs was that way. Bjon Robinson was that way. Zane Durant was that way. He was clearly of the guys that were doing the drills today, the best one out there. Explosive, very refined in his technique, very pro ready. I'm really excited to see where he lands, because I'm not sure if he makes it into that top five group or if he's a great value pick for a team that's picking outside of those top five defensive tackles in Day two somewhere and makes some team really happy. He was one of my guys in that group. I was also very torn with my other inclusion on this all combined team between two guys, Demante k Hard from Clemson, who is just a violent defensive tackle, very athletic, long, and then Caleb Proctor who spent his college career in anonymity at Southeastern Louisiana. And I'm watching him move through these drills and I'm like, he moves like an NFL player. He moves as well as a lot of these other guys do. How is he at Southeastern Louisiana the whole time, and I think it's a size thing. I think that when he finds his match with an NFL team, it's got to be with a team that relies on a lot of movement and stunts, because man on man, I think he'll get buried.

00:26:37
Speaker 3: But if you move him around and rely on.

00:26:39
Speaker 2: His athleticism to get the an edge on a blocker, he can make a difference.

00:26:43
Speaker 4: He was.

00:26:44
Speaker 2: I thought he cruised through a lot of these drills today. He had great body control, super smooth and athletic. I had just had a bunch of notes like that and so fluid and things like that. So as the drills went on, I was like, God, I think I got to include this kid just because I'm very impressed with how he moves now. Defensive line is kind of hard to judge because what's at the core of a defensive lineman is being able to be stout in the interior and win shed blocks, fill gaps, that sort of thing, and you're not getting that at the combine, So you kind of have to judge how strong is their base, how light are they on their feet, are they shifty?

00:27:13
Speaker 3: Can they move back and forth? That sort of thing, and he definitely did it.

00:27:16
Speaker 2: But k Part, I think kind of projects as a guy who put together a good athleticism showing he had an eighty five athleticism score according to the next Gen Stats, that was the third best among all defensive tackles.

00:27:27
Speaker 3: Durant had the best at eighty nine.

00:27:29
Speaker 2: The violence with which he plays and the fact that you know he's a bigger guy, a longer guy, I think that he projects to be somebody who could make a difference there.

00:27:37
Speaker 3: He was the first amount honorable mentions. I was very impressed by him as well.

00:27:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, and those are two guys Zeene Durant Caleb Proctor who were not in the consensus top one hundred going into today. Now, the consensus boards there, it's maybe not that accurate at this time of year. It's more about what the draft knicks think than what the league thinks. But it's just a collection of all the different big boards out there, and it gives someone like me just a general feeling of like where these guys are at. So I think they help themselves today, just like Nick Schuok is helping us out today. I love this time of year going to school on these guys. I also liked that Matt Ryan was there in the crowd. He's not phoning this job in like Tom Brady, you know what I mean. He's like really making it happen.

00:28:22
Speaker 2: That makes me feel so special to be in the same building as somebody who thought he could sit among everybody else as the president of football for the Atlanta Falcons. Almost as special as being in the sweet next to Ian Rappaport made me feel today.

00:28:33
Speaker 1: Ooh, that's great, and yeah, I like, you know, there's this the Falcons right now, there's this whole debate whether the Bears will get credit for Ian Cunningham going to be the GM of the Falcons because you're supposed to get draft picks if a minority candidate leaves from your program and gets the highest ranking you know, football decision maker job at another program, you actually get mid on draft picks, and they're not right now because Matt Ryan is above him on the totem pole, and him showing up for the combine actually kind of supports the fact that it probably is going to be Matt Ryan in charge over There also bad moment for Aaron Glenn, who was caught a sleep on NFL network. I'm not sure because I know you're actually there watching what's happening. I'm just looking at Twitter and Aaron Glenn was asleep. Someone very clearly like said you know, yelled at him and was like, you're asleep on camera right now, like Aaron. And then he suddenly wakes up and he looks at the camera, and because of there's a tape delay, I think he looked up to see himself asleep on NFL network, which is has to be like the worst way you can possibly wake up. And unfortunately, I feel like it's gonna be as it is moving forward.

00:29:52
Speaker 2: It is when the Jets struggle, that's the first clip that we're going to see popularized and just spread across social media. But it's still not as bad as the couple at the Cold Blake concert. So at least he's got that.

00:30:02
Speaker 1: He's got that. But I mean, I think Jets fans at this point are like, can we just get through a combine day without?

00:30:07
Speaker 3: Hey man, long days?

00:30:10
Speaker 1: Our organization just not embarrass us for a day. All right, let's take a break. We're gonna come back and we're gonna fly some through some news because I feel bad right now, like Shuck's been working for fifteen hours straight. We got to let him go get a steak or something in Indianapolis. Back in a minute, back on NFL Daily, I can recognize the west in room. I was just in it. But I gotta say I'm not complaining about being back in sunny southern California mid seventies. Today, Shook, you still got a waste to go and get ready. It is time for charging into the offseason, presented by Apple Card for all your game day purchases. Welcome up to some trade news today. Shook got a trade. The Jets made a trade Jermaine Johnson, former first round pick I think has had a solid career tours Achilles hasn't quite been the same since is going to his former coach, Robert Salah in Tennessee for defensive tackle Tovandre Sweat, a second round pick who we talked a lot about a couple of years ago at the Combine because there was off field concerns. Is this guy take the game seriously enough? Now? These two defensive linemen getting swapped. Just as a little bit of a recap, I think Sweats probably performed two expectations in his career. Good expectation. He's played pretty well as a nose tackle through two seasons. What did you make of this move? The Jets, you know, getting Jermaine Johnson, I mean, the Jets getting to Andandre Sweat.

00:31:52
Speaker 2: Sweat's also been the inspiration for some of the more hilarious calls that we've gotten in the last couple of years when he makes an occasional play on the ball, like a turn up riggins the ball in his hands, because a big men move with the football is always entertaining.

00:32:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

00:32:04
Speaker 2: I think he's lived up the expectation and the way that you summarize Johnson as accurate as well.

00:32:08
Speaker 3: I just I think it's a matter of fit.

00:32:09
Speaker 2: Robert Sala comes into Tennessee and he probably accepts that Sweat does not fit in the way that he wants to play defense, because Sweat is a big bodied, you know, gap plugging nose. And you got to think about who were the feature players in Sala's defense in New York. It was guys like Quinn Williams who were the future players in Salas defense. In San Francisco this year was rookie CJ. West and other players like that. Is they tried to rebuild their defensive line. Sweat does not fit the mold of any of those guys, so it makes sense to do this deal and also get one of Sala's old guys that he likes from the Jets to plug in their at edge rusher because they need help in that front seven, and so it makes a ton of sense in a one for one.

00:32:44
Speaker 3: It works out for me.

00:32:45
Speaker 2: It's a nice, little, solid, explainable, understandable trade in late February.

00:32:50
Speaker 1: Yes, and since they both have top four picks, you know, people wonder will that impact anything. No, this trade should not impact anything. Even if let's say the Jets the Titans like signed another defensive end in free agency, I don't think that really gives away what they're gonna do. I think you just have to take the best player, and Jermaine Johnson has one year left on his contract. I also think finances, you know, were a fact here. The Titans have a lot of cap space and so they can take on a big fifth year option contract, whereas Tvandre Sweat has two years for pretty cheap. Just on the football merits of it all, I think it's a pretty good trade for the Jets. It does make you wonder. There's been like little whispers of like, you know, how much does Sweat love the game? All that sort of stuff, like it is you see the type of guy you want to build around, and so maybe that factors into it too, But just the football. You get a cheaper player for an extra year who's played pretty well, not bad for the Jets. The Titans also cut Lloyd cushion Berry, who two years ago was one of the highest paid players. I mean, the Titans cut Lloyd cushion Berry who two years ago were was one of the highest paid players in free agency. He was a center, suffered a really serious injury, never quite looked the same, and he is now free and the Titans have a lot of cap space and a lot of needs, and now they have a new need at center. Another possible trade. Cameron Wolf of the NFL Network reports there's mutual interest in an Anthony Richardson trade to the Vikings. That would be spicy going to Kevin O'Connell and the Vikings, you know, need a quarterback and Anthony Richardson. It was officially you know, announced, you know, by reporters that they gave him permission to seek a trade. We kind of knew that he would be available.

00:34:39
Speaker 6: Yeah, have we talked about this on this show, because I know I've had these discussions with a number of different people about how Anthony Richardson has no futures in Indianapolis and that this was probably going to happen at some point, and so for it to come to fruition at least in the form of a rumor a report from Camp Wolf, which is hilarious by the way, because I saw Cam last night and we had a nice conversation.

00:34:58
Speaker 2: Then you wake up this morning and and Cam's just pounding the pavement getting the story. He's out there because this is how the combine works. Yeah, it makes all the sense in the world. The Vikings not so much, because I know that they need to bring in competition. They feel like they need to push JJ McCarthy and they also need to have better options behind him. But do you want to invite what would inevitably be become a distraction because you have two young quarterbacks to both former first round picks, and what happens when McCarthy struggles and then oh go to Richardson And do you really want that instability?

00:35:32
Speaker 3: I'm not so certain.

00:35:33
Speaker 2: But then again, This is a team that happily added Daniel Jones, and you know he didn't obviously take the field for them during that season, but they're not unfamiliar with taking a swing at a former first round prospect at the quarterback position and seeing what they could potentially get out of them.

00:35:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, the problem is he's too close to what they have in JJ McCarthy. Yes, like a guy who is a total question mark and is young and needs.

00:35:59
Speaker 2: To does it doesn't It doesn't shit what they need, which is they need somebody reliable behind JJ.

00:36:04
Speaker 1: I can actually only imagine him being there if they brought in another player too, that they have three players and it's a veteran because I frankly expect them to bring in someone who has a better chance to unseat JJ McCarthy. In fact, I kind of expect them to bring in someone who will be the favorite to start this year. But they have to find that guy. It's easier said than done. So maybe there's interest, but I don't know if I don't know if that would be it for quarterback, but we'll see that. That would be fascinating. I also heard a Cardinals I read a Cardinals source who said that they heard that Gino Smith could be in the mix as well as Anthony Richardson in Arizona, which is fascinating.

00:36:49
Speaker 3: They don't, they don't seem.

00:36:50
Speaker 2: To be very on top of Kyler, so like they be very on board with that, So that makes no sense.

00:36:54
Speaker 1: I don't think the Kyler thing is happening. One thing we we failed to mention on the last show that I meant to it was it was hilarious that Kyler's camp came out after the Cardinals said that they've spoken with Kyler Murray and they've kind of been letting it be known, like, hey, maybe we'll keep Kyler. There was a source that told ESPN, actually, they haven't talked to us at all. He hasn't spoken with Antiausen for once. So it's like you can try to pretend like you're keeping me potentially just to raise leverage when you have no interest yet. I'm not. We're not going to play that game.

00:37:26
Speaker 2: We're not going to help you out, Cardinals, the leverage game. It's always fun this time of year. It produces lies, fibbs, you know, whatever you want.

00:37:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kyler, I do not think his stay in there. Pro Football Talk reported that the Raiders want two first round picks plus a player for Max Crosby. That's the exact price, and the player was Kenny Clark of Michael Parsons. I think for Max Crosby, I think that tells me, Yeah, the Raiders would do that, and they probably I think, know that that they won't get it, and that they're okay with that.

00:38:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's think about the art of negotiation. You start with a high price, they come in with a low price, and you work your way towards the middle. I guess this is just the starting point for them to see at least get the wheels turning on a potential move, which it kind of just feels inevitable at this point. I don't think they'll fetch that offer. I think you're right, it's too high. That made sense for Michael Parsons, it does not make quite as much sense for Max Crosby. No matter how good of a player he is, he's not the same player as Parsons.

00:38:29
Speaker 1: And Ian Rapaport pointed out on our show. He's coming off an injury and that really could mess things up. I actually don't think Max Crosby's going to get traded because I think the injury plus what they'll want. But you raise a really good point, setting the bar high. It's true if they're a leak, if that's getting leaked to Pro Football Talk, then a first then a third in a player would probably do it, So maybe that could happen. I also thought it was interesting Clint Kubiak came out and told the local media he is looking for a quote two man show at running back in that Ashton Genty quote needs a wingman and that's how he likes to run backfields.

00:39:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just saw that.

00:39:14
Speaker 1: It makes sense. But that's a top ten pick at running back. So if you drafted him in dynasty fantasy football leagues, maybe not the best news.

00:39:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a good pick for dynasty owners, not a good pick for fantasy owners going into twenty twenty six. But it's also not a good pick because they had the worst offensive line in the NFL. So like, I don't care who you put back there. You could put like the reincarnation of Jim Brown behind Ashton Genty and they're still probably not going to be very effective because they can't block. So until they can block, it doesn't really matter.

00:39:43
Speaker 1: Landon Dickerson like his teammate Lane Johnson indicated on Instagram that he will be returning to the twenty twenty six Philadelphia Eagles. We noted a couple of weeks ago that both offensive linemen were reportedly considering not coming back. I think think everyone was a little upset about Jeff Stoutlin, their offensive line coach, leaving the building. In the end, these are two of the best at what they do, huge competitors, and they want to come back and they will be back. So great news for the Eagles. There more offensive line news in the NFC East. The Commanders have released Tyler Biattish. Look, this is a story maybe most podcasts wouldn't hit. I was very surprised by this though. He was a guy who, you know, I know, Pro Bowls don't mean that much, but made a Pro Bowl a couple of years ago and started virtually every game for the Commanders since he took over. As I dug into it, it's maybe a little less surprising. He had what's in an injury in late last season, a leg ankle injury that I'm not really sure how serious it was, and this release maybe indicates to me it's a little more serious. If he was healthy. You know, he's not even thirty yet. He's put up a lot of good starts in the NFL. He'd be top fifty in my Top one one free agents. But the uncertainty about the injury makes me just want to like find out a little more. But another hole for the commanders to fill. They have a lot of holes to fill.

00:41:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it wasn't like money really motivated all that much of it when they have a lot of cap space to work with anyway, and they have holes to fill, like you said.

00:41:18
Speaker 1: And they only saved two point six million dollars, but they do save a lot of Ultimately, you are paying the guy a lot of money, and I think he was doing like eight million dollars. So although the fact that they released him makes me worry about possibly getting.

00:41:31
Speaker 2: Him, yes, because maybe you know, for lack of a better phrase, but he's he may be considered like damaged goods as a free agent now and maybe they were looking at that and trying to get ahead of it, and so it makes sense. But you know what else, Greg, I'm sitting in the suite tonight and I'm watching the ticker go by, and Greg's Top one oh one free agents are scrolling by, yes, and I think on a separate podcast, you and I are going to have to have some chats because I got some gripes, oh like put like putting Kate out in.

00:41:58
Speaker 3: The head of Isaiah. Likely I got some grip so we need to discuss.

00:42:02
Speaker 1: I wish I wish I had you on more for those gripes, like before I put it out, because what is it going to do me now? But no, I do. I do want to explore that space another time. But yeah, a lot of people, a lot of people got on me about the Kida and rank.

00:42:19
Speaker 3: It's very high.

00:42:21
Speaker 1: Will Anderson is going to be a priority for the Houston, texans Ian Rappaport reported today that he thinks like long term extension will happen sooner than later. Not a shock, but just interesting how they're kind of prioritizing things. Shoulder Sanders hopes to one day get a long term contract extension somewhere in the neighborhood of Will Anderson. That that's going to be a tall order, but you never know. But what he did do was somehow make this show by a completely surprising choice of gift for Todd Monkin. Let's listen to Todd Monkin with CBS this week.

00:42:58
Speaker 7: In fact, for my birthday, I got this package. I thought it was from my wife. It's like this package and opens it up, it's like this porcelain like horsehead and it's from Shador. He sent me a gift on my birthday and I asked him, I said, what was the meaning? He said, well, I just really liked it. Should I got myself one. I said, well, great, Okay.

00:43:20
Speaker 2: Off, first off, this is why you make the big bucks, because I was a hell of a segue to get to Shador Sanders there, thank you. And secondly, this is a godfather asked gift that usually is ominous and means bad things for your coach, and I think that went completely over Shador's head.

00:43:36
Speaker 3: But also there's so many things here.

00:43:40
Speaker 2: Who like sees a porcelain horsehead and is like, wow, I really like that. I want one, and I'm gonna send one to my head coach for his birthday. He has the best team around him to be aware of these things and make them happen, even if they look really strange to the rest of us.

00:43:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was That was with my friends at Jonathan Jones and Pete Prisco, over at CBS. They were not expecting any of that to come out. I have a lot of thoughts on this. Number one. I wish I had the confidence and the generosity, not just in terms of money, but actually just of spirit too, because he had to think to do that. I don't think that's a team of people sending the porcelain horset. Now he has to tell them, hey can you send this to coach? But he has to think of it. So that's that's a generous spirit. But I think you got to have a certain sort of self confidence. I don't know what the right word would be, just that like, hey, I like this porcelain horse, said so much. I'm buying this thing and my coach would love it. And I have the confidence to send my coach like presence in the in the mail and it's a bizarre present. I love it all. I want. I want to see it.

00:44:50
Speaker 2: I think I want to see it too. And you know what I think I need to start doing. I need to start sending you gifts on your birthday that are strange.

00:44:59
Speaker 1: No, I actually think it raises the chance of the sure starting this year by like five a gift well, just because it just shows a level of connectedness. We saw that they saw each other, that they liked each other, I think from the pre draft process, and when they saw each other again in Cleveland, they it's just a it's just a fun bromance.

00:45:19
Speaker 2: It's preseason week three and Todd Monkin has to decide between Shador Sanders, Deshaun Watson, and whoever else they bring in a quarterback for week one. And it's late at night and it's a hot summer evening in Beria and the sun is set and Todd's in his office all by himself, and he's lit by one overhead light like it's an interrogation room. And in that moment, he'll look across the room to the porcelain horse head he decreatively placed in the corner, and he'll say, I know who's my guy.

00:45:49
Speaker 1: That's absolutely right. That was beautiful. I'm really glad I put that in the show. Now everything feels like an anti climax after that. Finally, the the NFLPA scores, the grades that they have for all the organizations came out today, not officially because it was ruled that they weren't officially allowed to do this this year, but they were allowed to do the surveys and create the grades, they just weren't allowed to release them publicly, So of course it ends up getting out. Kayln Kaylor, who's one of the very best in the business, does it for ESPN. It was her Super Bowl today. I saw someone say that and she retweeted it. Getting all these NFLPA grades out and the Steelers come in dead last. Thought that was interesting in terms of their facilities, in terms of how they take care of their players and the families. That was interesting. Joe Shane was the lowest ranked general manager. And they're not like evaluating moves. It's more like they're evaluating I think the players, their relationship with the front office, how they feel about their front office. So that was very interesting to me. The Dolphins were the best ranked team for the third straight year. The Vikings were second. They were always near the top. So the Dolphins take care of their players like it is a well run like ownership had like an a there, Everything had an a there. And the Commanders since Josh Harris took over, has zoomed from the very bottom of the league to up to third. Seattle and Jacksonville were also in the top five. Bottom five I mentioned Steelers were dead last, Cardinals were second to last. They're always near the bottom. Michael Bidwell ranked as the worst owner in the league. The Browns, the Bucks, and the Bengals were also near the bottom. And one thing that really struck me shook this year, you know, they also ranked the coaches. The lowest ranked coach period was Kevin Stefanski. That's interesting by his players, okay, and the lowest graded coach in the entire league that didn't get fired. I think he was fourth or fifth lowest overall, but the other four had gotten fired. Of course the fans got the job immediately. Was Jim Harbaugh with a C.

00:48:04
Speaker 2: I could see that actually, this is the Harball thing is something that I wondered about when he jumped from Michigan back to the NFL. I wondered if his style, or you could describe it as shtick, may not wear well on his players after a while at the NFL level, just because it's a new generation who knows if it's going to work out or not. They have been successful, and I would love to see these grades correlate more to success on the field, like the Dolphins, for example, but not super surprised about Harbaugh not getting a very high grade.

00:48:34
Speaker 3: His demeanor in the way he does things are just a little different.

00:48:38
Speaker 1: And not like the Steelers. Being last is a tough look. Three of the bottom five were kind of the old family owned teams Bengals, Cardinals, Steelers, you know that don't have that huge amount of cash that maybe some other organizations do that we're in there.

00:49:00
Speaker 3: All the Browns do, and they're low down.

00:49:01
Speaker 1: The Browns do, and they they spend their money on players. So I don't know what's going on.

00:49:06
Speaker 2: Must be how they treat families. And maybe like the food, oh the food got better.

00:49:10
Speaker 3: I don't know. I always enjoyed breakfast and lunch there.

00:49:13
Speaker 1: That was charging into the off season, presented by Apple Card. Apply for Apple Cart in the Wild app today. Start earning daily cash back on all your game day purchases, from tickets to tailgate munchies to merch subject to credit approval. All right, let's take a break. It shook hang out for one second. What we're gonna do. We're gonna take a break. On the other side, We're gonna listen to a couple interviews that Jordan and I did before I left town. With the Panthers general manager and head coach. And on the back end of that, we're gonna say goodbye and we're gonna tell you the trend that officially ended as of Thursday night during the NFL combine. Yes, NFL has killed an entire youth trend, and we'll tell you what it is. At the very end, we are here with the general manager of the Carolina Panthers, Dan Morgan, coming off a season where frankly, we just loved watching the Carolina Panthers play at the end of the year, and you kind of are completing the triumvirate. We've had Brent Tillis on the show we had, so.

00:50:25
Speaker 5: You know, we talked about it. You vouched for him, and I was like, I don't know Brandt super well, so you know, would he be good to have on one of our Capsules series. He killed it, He did great. You called the shop though, you totally he said he would.

00:50:38
Speaker 4: He's a great dude and super valuable to me.

00:50:41
Speaker 5: And we had Dave Canalis last year sitting in the very seat that you're sitting in now, So it's like it felt only right, you know, because you three are are quite the triangle of friendship. Also, you hear stories about how well you get along despite very different backgrounds and and sort of like very different philosophies that all sort of mesh together because they compliment each other. Yeah, what's it been like sort of building that decision making I want to say circle, but it's a triangle.

00:51:11
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's been fun.

00:51:12
Speaker 8: I mean it always helps when the people you work with they're not just your workmates, they're your friends. They are people you enjoy coming to work every day and working with. And we all at the end of the day, we just want to win. You know, we want to win. We want to be happy and come in after wins. So you know, we work our butts off and you know we put we put the work in every single day, but we enjoy every single day and we don't take it for granted.

00:51:42
Speaker 1: What was the feeling like after the playoff loss, which you know is always a really difficult day, and it yeah, it seems yeah season, but on the other hand, it was like, you guys played really well against this team that a lot of us thought you had a really good chance to win the Super Bowl, and you're right there. So I guess take us through with that that day that the emotions were like.

00:52:03
Speaker 8: Coming off of that game, disappointed. I think everybody was disappointed. You know, we felt like we could have won that game. Obviously we didn't, so I could have, would have, should have, you know, but I think it gives us.

00:52:16
Speaker 4: Something to build on.

00:52:18
Speaker 8: I think that we're headed in the right direction as a franchise. I think the players in the building and the building in general, you know, we have that belief the cultures shifting to a winning mindset and you have to have that. If you don't have the winning mindset, you don't.

00:52:34
Speaker 4: Have a chance.

00:52:34
Speaker 8: So do everybody's pulling in the same direction, excited about the future, and you know.

00:52:40
Speaker 4: We got to go earn it now.

00:52:42
Speaker 8: We got to put the work in, you know, from a front office perspective, coaches, players, we got to work and we got to go earn it.

00:52:50
Speaker 5: When I think a lot about what the Panthers, what you guys did this season, and it was like a joy ride for a lot of it, right, I.

00:52:57
Speaker 1: Mean they were like a roller coaster for yeah, like.

00:53:00
Speaker 5: Maybe the safety bar is not on either at this point, because sometimes you just felt, how are this how is this team doing this? They're still in a rebuild, you know, yet you know, yes, you have some veteran guys, and I think the floor was lifted, especially by some of the great coaching on both sides of the ball in certain positions. We loved the outside corners tandem and and just how they were getting the most out of everyone on the interior with the safeties, and and just like because of how well they were playing. We loved watching just the floor lift and pockets all over this roster. But now you've got to keep tweaking and adjusting despite the fact that that was such an adrenaline roller coaster.

00:53:37
Speaker 4: As you said, how do you.

00:53:38
Speaker 5: How do you like sift through the spikes essentially and gets really what is needed to keep filling.

00:53:45
Speaker 8: You know, I think the biggest thing for us in the roster building is we gotta we got to stick to our standards. Yeah, we gotta be disciplined in our approach, you know, and we got to bring our type of guys and we you know, we can't be competing against the internet. You know, people want you to sign this guy and there, Actually.

00:54:07
Speaker 5: We can't be competing against the internet. Yeah, so sirs, I'm looking at the content team right now, Like.

00:54:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, from an in house film crew, like we are a reality star right now.

00:54:18
Speaker 4: I guess so that's not my style, but.

00:54:22
Speaker 5: You were giving a great answer forgive us. We interrupt each other a lot on this show, so.

00:54:25
Speaker 4: It's fine, it's fine. I'm the same way. My add kicks in as well.

00:54:30
Speaker 8: But yeah, we yeah, we just you know, it's about bringing the right players in, you know, to fit our culture, bringing the right type of human being into into our locker room. Because your culture really starts with the players. You know, they are the culture. So as many players we can bring in that not only have great personal character, but they have a love for the game. They love everything about the process. That's the type of guys we want to bring in our building.

00:55:00
Speaker 1: Do you think you need more firepower around Bryce Young in terms of the offensive weapons.

00:55:06
Speaker 8: I think we're I'm always going to feel like that. You know, no matter how good we ever get, like, we're never going to be satisfied here. We're always going to be finding ways to get better, to grow and evolve and just find ways to give us an edge. You know, whether it's from a front office perspective, scouting, coaching, you know, we're always going to be looking for those edges. We're never going to feel like we've arrived. But that's the type of mindset we need to have to get to where we want to go, and not only get there once, but to sustain it.

00:55:39
Speaker 5: Dan, I love when you can watch a coach build something like right out loud in front of everybody. Yeah, And a lot of times that happens when a team is figuring out how to maximize what it has as.

00:55:51
Speaker 4: It goes through the course of the season.

00:55:52
Speaker 5: It's not just game planning, it's also how do we align pieces on the chess board essentially. Yeah, and like your receips group and then the tight ends group together, I'm just lump them all into a one big pool.

00:56:04
Speaker 4: Here of pass catchers. Yeah.

00:56:06
Speaker 5: You could see, especially when Jalen Koker came back, you could see the layers or the intent of the layers start to develop in this past game around Tedoro McMillan, but then with Jalen as a really complimentary kind of all over the field, trustworthy like weapon. And I guess what's the next step of that, Like, what's the next layer that we wish we could have gotten a chance to see if maybe you guys kept going. But what we want to see and what you want to see this coming season?

00:56:35
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think to answer your question, I think, you know, develop guys still developing, you know, I think nowadays I think, you know, the outside, you know, not us on the inside, but on the outside, we're so quick to just throw players under the bus. And like, I'm looking forward to seeing Xavior Leged develop. You know, he's he's not a finished product. You know, he's still developing and he's getting better. So we're here to support him. The coaches are here to support him, and you know, just keep developing our guys. And we believed in these guys. We drafted them for a reason. We know they have it in them. But we're not giving up on them. They're they're are guys, They're We're gonna win with these guys, and I have full confidence that that they're gonna you know, they're gonna turn the corner and they're gonna be what we thought.

00:57:27
Speaker 1: How do you feel about your center kid May's potentially coming back.

00:57:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's a possibility.

00:57:34
Speaker 8: You know, we've been talking to his agent and staying in contact with him, and you know, from my seat, you know, we these guys earned the right to go out and and you know, figure out what their market looks like, and you know, maybe somebody's gonna pay him a boatload of money, and you know, they earn that right, and you know we're going to stay in contact with them and at the end of the day, we'll see where the chips fall.

00:57:57
Speaker 1: Is it a bit of a two pronged attack too, with the injury to Ikya khanmu at the at the end of last season in his offensive line, you know, because of that focus for you.

00:58:07
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean that's that's the NFL, that's life like. Things are going to happen, and you know we have to plan accordingly. And you know that's why I always talk about drafting the best player available, because you never know what position you're going to get an injury at at any given moment in the season. So you know, we're about drafting the best football players and not so so much drafting for need. You know, unless it's equal, then yeah, I'll go with the need. But yeah, that's that's kind of what our philosophy is.

00:58:37
Speaker 5: How do you balance on I'm thinking about the defensive line too, and obviously I know you guys want to boke up the pass, rush Nicks court and really came alive. Was fun to watch. Oh yeah, such explosiveness. It just jumped off the screen. But obviously you want to build out that group and and you have some veterans on that you've had on the interior, you added free agents on the interior around Derek Brown. How do you continue to understand that was a very real part of your team building model last year year before continue to.

00:59:03
Speaker 4: Draft and develop there.

00:59:05
Speaker 5: How do you balance that line that you're walking because you definitely are going to want to get some new people eventually to.

00:59:11
Speaker 4: Take over it.

00:59:12
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think you know when I took over and just talking to my team, like about what we want it to be about. It's about winning the offensive line of scrimmage and the defensive line of scrimmage. Like we want to dominate both sides of the ball. And you know, in order to do that, you have to infuse talent into that and you know, young talent guys that we can grow with. And you saw last year we drafted Nick Nick Gordon, we drafted Princely. You know, both those guys were excited about their future and we're just going to keep adding, keep building brick by brick, and you know, I think at the end of the day then you know it'll be where we want it to be.

00:59:50
Speaker 1: Do you think you'll be talking contract extension with Bryce Young before the fifth year option comes up?

00:59:59
Speaker 8: You know, something that we have to talk about internally and figure out.

01:00:03
Speaker 4: You know.

01:00:04
Speaker 8: Right now, you know, we're just happy Bryce as our quarterback. We're we're so excited that, you know, the way he's developing, not only as a player, but as a as a man. You know, he's he's growing up right in front of our eyes, and he's getting better every single day, every single every single game. So we're excited he's our quarterback and you know, contractually that'll figure itself out.

01:00:28
Speaker 1: Appreciate all the time, Dan and another.

01:00:32
Speaker 5: Gracious your time sitting down with you for a while.

01:00:36
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me one of my favorites to watch on the field back in the day as well, So you know, keep an eye out that the linebackers appreciate that. Picking up Dan Morgan GM of the Panthers, we are here with head coach of the Carolina Panthers, head coach of the NFC South champion Carolina Panthers for the second straight year, right in this spot at the Indianapolis Convention Center. Congratulations on the division ampionship. We were talking about the atmosphere on that day that that Jordan was there in the playoffs. How did it feel to kind of bring that type of football energy back to Carolina.

01:01:11
Speaker 9: We're super proud we came in. You know.

01:01:14
Speaker 10: Our goal was, you know, Dan and I talking is like, let's build a Let's build a team that this that this fan base can be proud of, you know, and it's it's the Carolinas, you know, it's South Carolina, North Carolina. I was in Myrtle Beach last weekend at a seven on seven tournament with my son, and you know, just the outpouring of excitement, you know, especially in your football environment, you know, from parents. That's what I think is unique about what's happening in our community is I'm forty four, and so most of the people that are around my age were like prime time like original Panthers fans, nineteen ninety five PSL owners, you know, I remember nineteen ninety five. I'm I'm just starting high school. So people my age were like right around that time where it's important to them, you know, and so now their kids, our kids are all growing up in this and so it's a it's a really special time for us.

01:02:02
Speaker 1: Were you more nervous during the fourth quarter of that playoff game or watching the seven and seven your son?

01:02:10
Speaker 5: Uh?

01:02:10
Speaker 9: Definitely the playoff game.

01:02:12
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I don't know.

01:02:13
Speaker 5: I don't know what kind of a coach parent or involved parent are you with the football? I mean, I would feel like the coach would want to try to get you involved a little bit, like you.

01:02:23
Speaker 1: Got you got control a little bit when you're coaching if you just watch, well.

01:02:27
Speaker 10: I just appreciate the people that all these people, this is what they do for fun, you know, and they have jobs and they you know, haul themselves and a bunch of equipment all around the Carolinas, you know, playing these tournaments, and so I just I just appreciate them for the time that they spend with our kids. And uh, however they coach and whatever plays they're calling, it's just like this is a good thing. This is time while spent and they're investing in our kids.

01:02:52
Speaker 5: But it's okay if you also make mental notes too, just saying but you know, so that the atmosphere was so powerful as you guys as a team like and and the community everyone met the moment really well, coming in as percepted, underdog and all of that, and then and then really taking it right to the to the end there. But that's sort of like a roller coaster all season with you guys, and and some of those really high highs emotionally and then some of the frustrating losses and and we you know, we've had several of your of your friends and co workers on the show. We talked to Brent Tillis, We've we talked to Dan Morgan as well about like, how do you find what's stable and sustainable through all of that joy ride of a feeling all around everything.

01:03:36
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, it's about belief and starts internally and as we continue to prove to our players that if we play a certain style of football, we can play with anybody. And that holds true for any of us in the NFL, and we all care about the same thing. We all care about taking care of the ball, creating explosive plays or minimizing them, and those critical moments at the end of half are into games and and we're all sick about it, But it's the teams that pay attention to it and believe that you can get it done. And that's what I saw happen with our group is throughout the season, I could feel the belief coming from our players and expecting to win on a weekly basis. And you know, now it's time to look at the inconsistencies of what happened, you know, and to see if we can really capture that.

01:04:18
Speaker 9: And it happens in practice.

01:04:20
Speaker 10: It starts when these players come back in April, and we have to take every single day. This is the day that could win us that game, this is a day that could lose us that game. And can we be that urgent about their work with that we do?

01:04:32
Speaker 5: You kind of made a little news today you mentioned that when you're in your press conference at Brad and Sick, is it going to be calling plays this year? You know, there's been whispers around the league that he was really working at this, like working at maybe one day becoming someone who could take that mantle on in such a significant way. And it's a personal thing to call plays and it's a powerful thing to be the person that does that. So what like, what is it about him that you said, Okay, this is the year that you're gonna do it. What is about you that you said this is the year I'm gonna let this go? And what does a Brad Ezach offense look like?

01:05:08
Speaker 1: Uh?

01:05:08
Speaker 10: Two things came to mind really with the decision. Is is our ability to continue to push our processes forward offensively. And Brad's been my primary architect for what we do from an offensive standpoint, tying the run game and the past game in together. And we've been doing that for three years and and he works at it. You know, he's he's such a hard worker, He's dedicated to it. He's principled, and he knows the philosophy of what I want, what we want for our Panthers offense. So felt really confident to give him that opportunity to do it. As far as readiness goes, you know, I was asked this when I first became a coordinator in Tampa. It's like, how do you know that you're ready? It's like, well, I'm as ready as I'm going to be. And I feel that about Brad. You know, this is this is a time to do that. And he's he's the he's been the sounding board for me. He's been in my ear, you know, has been calling plays for the last couple of years, and and as we've laid this foundation, I believe Brad will take us the next step and we'll be able to continue to build off of it because of his report with the players as well. The other side of it was an opportunity for me to continue to affect the culture of what we're doing, the play style in general, from offense, defense and special teams, how we do things in the building, a strength and conditioning, athletic training, all of these things, how we treat each other, and what we're after, the possibilities of what we could become. I know that I can affect our culture in a more powerful way by being available that way, whereas you can imagine coming into it all hands on deck. Let's get this offense to a place where we have a foundation. And I believe we have that foundation and now it's time to continue to build off of it.

01:06:39
Speaker 1: So we talked to Dan Morgan, your GM, and we know that Bryce is going to be your quarterback. Of course in the contract, will you all will figure that out, But I'm curious what you want him to improve on like specifically and in terms of his game, because I feel like he was almost a symbol of your team sometimes at times like the great week were great, And one thing I think gets misunderstood with him is like, man, if you put just a reel together, like, he is not afraid to put that ball in a tough spot. And his high level throws are as high levels as almost anyone. But there were down weeks for him too, And so what do you think he needs to get better onto it to improve those down weeks.

01:07:17
Speaker 10: Yeah, just what I'm proud of what he did this year is just mastering the operations of what we're doing and getting us to the line of scrimmage so he can make great decisions for us. He did an excellent job of that this year, and I want him to be able to continue to build off of that, so he can make decisions at the line of scrimmage and take advantage of things that he's done throughout the season by whether it's coverage, blitzes, fronts, things to take advantage of. So let's keep building on that part of it. The consistency piece, which is his mantra, that's what he's after, will continue to allow him to find that success. We want to replicate those special games. While there's different degrees of defenses that you face that create different channallenges. I know that's what's out there for us, and so I want to continue to grow that way. What he's done a great job of as a leader is, you know, as you can imagine, he is the cagey vet. You know, he is the elderly statesman in a room of rookies and second year players, you know, and and he embraces that. He embraces that role to come to work with consistency, to grind, to do all those things. So I'm excited for us to get back together in April at some point and to just continue to push that forward.

01:08:29
Speaker 5: Do you know one of the most fun things about watching what you guys did this year. It wasn't for me like the highs and then how you recovered from the lows and all of those things, but you guys like really worked out loud, like you problem solved and you could see it on the field what problems you were trying to solve from week to week. And specifically want to talk about your passing game and your skill guys, because especially when Jalen came back. Ted McMillan had a great season, as we know, and as when Jalen Koger came back. You could start to see you and I suppose because you guys are working together on this start to build in like some really interesting layers into your passing game where there was depth to it, there was math because we're creating more math, I think than previously with.

01:09:13
Speaker 1: Some of those matchups.

01:09:15
Speaker 5: What's the next step. Who becomes the third puzzle piece here, whether he's on the roster or maybe you don't know yet, And how does that take another step forward to continue to build.

01:09:27
Speaker 9: Depth to it. Yeah, well, first it's it's time on task.

01:09:30
Speaker 10: And you know, Jalen Coker had an injury right at the end of training camp and that set him out for a little bit of time. So so thankful that David Moore, a guy that I've been with the long time, was able to step into the role for a while for a couple of games. But there was a little bit of a rotating, you know, just a rotation in the wide receiver room because of who was and wasn't available. We traded Adam Thielen, another guy that I loved and so finding that chemistry took all of most of the season to get to a place where we were really operating. They were anticipating each other.

01:10:03
Speaker 4: You know.

01:10:04
Speaker 10: I'm excited for Xavier Lyget. I'm excited for the jump and the leap that he's going to take this year. Why do I say that it's because of the work he puts into it. I've been a receivers coach. I watch guys work on their craft. The ones who worked the hardest, it happens for them. And he happens to be six two and a half two thirty and runs four three eight. And all of these things are going to come in the chemistry and the trust that Bryce has in him to continue to go to him in critical downs, you know, and with the ups and downs and the inconsistency that's all of us as a whole, like we have to find consistency. But I'm really excited for this group. I'm excited for Jimmy Horn to see what he can do to add an explosive element to what we're doing. And Bryce and Tremaine, a guy that played on special teams, did the dirty work, made some critical catches for us in different games this is a really good group. Now, it's Dan in mind, it's our job to find players we can add, whether that's free agency or through the raft draft, to challenge that room and to make it a really competitive position.

01:11:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, another position that could be in transition. Rico Daddle is a is a free agent for you, do you expect that he would be back? And what are you kind of looking for in that room specific?

01:11:14
Speaker 10: Those are all things that we're talking about right now. But it goes to that same room. You know, you think about Jonathan Brooks coming back, Trevor Youten and what an amazing player he was in college and did a couple of things for us in the run game, and I'm excited to see where he goes with it. But that's definitely a position that we can also challenge. And uh, we're going to give the ball to the angriest, most explosive guy, and uh, that person could be on our roster, it could be out there, and we're going to take all those things considering.

01:11:40
Speaker 1: Your anger, you know, like, if it's going to be the angriest, how are you calculating anger?

01:11:45
Speaker 10: It's just there's a violence to it. There's a there's a way that the ball is supposed to be run and that's what we're looking for.

01:11:49
Speaker 5: Or take like an average Wednesday interacting with me, Greg, and that's how you measure anger.

01:11:54
Speaker 3: Sometimes as well.

01:11:55
Speaker 1: I'd like I'd like to go through the whole how about one. You know, you went through all the offensive players before we let you go one one maybe defensive younger player on the roster that you know, we have an audience that, let's watches the whole league, so maybe maybe someone that they're not as familiar with that you're excited to maybe see grow in your defense in the coming years.

01:12:15
Speaker 9: Well, Nick s.

01:12:16
Speaker 10: Gorton did a great job this year and was our second round pick. Consistent, hard working, talented, huge, just a really powerful player and I'm excited to see him continue to expand his his tool belt. Trevin Wallace. We got to get Trevin healthy. He's big and he's fast, and you know he's been a stud just playing through different things and managing that part of it. But I'm excited to see Trevin get back out there. A guy that probably doesn't get mentioned is Corey Thornton. He was he played, he actually moved into the starting lineup and was injured pretty quickly after that. But a guy that can play multiple positions. He can play outside corner, he can play nickel, and he's also played safety for US. A really versatile player long and a really savvy football player. I'm excited to see where he goes. And uh, probably the last one I'll mention is Ben Martin Scott. Uh, you know, contributed to special teams, but he's a rocket. He plays with the right play style and you know, really excited to see his development as an inside linebacker. If you can, you know, give something to us.

01:13:18
Speaker 1: I love this. You're doing homeworks for me for our season previews.

01:13:21
Speaker 5: Well, I'll tell you too. That's cool that you bring up Corey because one of the top things I heard out of any camp was how excited your defensive guys were out of training camp this last year about Corey.

01:13:31
Speaker 1: So that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Appreciate Dave Canalis joining us for a second straight year. You know, I'm not saying we were the cause of it, but a nice bump up last year. And so this is what my Wednesdays are. It can happen again that we talked again next year and we're talking.

01:13:47
Speaker 4: About even more wins.

01:13:48
Speaker 10: Absolutely. I'm not superstitious, but I'm a little stitious. So you know, this is a good this is a good return. Let's do it again next year.

01:13:54
Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you, Dave Canal. Thanks great to talk to Dave Canalis and Dan Morgan was watching the combine coverage and Canalis gave a very similar answer to Rich Eisen and Daniel Jeremiah about the responsibility that Bryce Young has taken at the line of scrimmage. How that's how he's gonna win. It's kind of from the neck up. So you know, I was gonna say, get your information first from us, because we got it literally first, but the show wasn't up, so that's a bad job by us, I guess great interviews. Appreciate that. Nick, thank you for hanging out. And I did want to note that as of Thursday night, if it wasn't already over, you're not allowed to say frame mogged ever again, not that you were in the first place. Frame mogged is done?

01:14:41
Speaker 3: What about maxing? Can I still use maxing with looks maxine?

01:14:44
Speaker 1: Now? Nothing at that's gone?

01:14:47
Speaker 2: Okay, good because I didn't use any of that and I thought it was just unnecessary. But we can all thank Kyle Hamilton for that, because he got frame mogged during the NFL Combine by none other than Sunny Styles and a comparison on the screen.

01:15:00
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it's just because I'm sensitive. I'm I'm like a walking and getting frame mogged. I mean, anytime I've ever been on the show with you shook, certainly. But yes, for for those who you know, weren't watching the program, Kyle Hamilton noted when they did the side by side, you know, heightweight, speed, and they compared Kyle Hamilton, who you would you would think would be, you know, even faster than these these built behemoth at linebacker Sonny Styles. No, even though Sunny Styles was so much bigger and stronger, he was even faster than than Kyle Hamilton, who's who's plenty of speedy. And yeah, he sent he sent a tweet out to NFL Network and Rich Eisen that he was getting frame mogged, and then the NFL social used the word frame mogged. And actually I was really happy because when that happened, that's when I knew it was over.

01:15:48
Speaker 2: Yes, as soon as corporate America adopts any term, it all ends very quickly.

01:15:55
Speaker 3: It's like when it's like when.

01:15:56
Speaker 2: Swag became like a very big thing or yolo, like back ten to fifteen years ago and everyone was getting their swag bags and everyone was saying yolo, and it was dead from then too.

01:16:05
Speaker 3: It went the way of vine unfortunately.

01:16:08
Speaker 1: So we'll see. I mean, I yeah, it wasn't a fan anyways. I am a fan of all the work that you're going to be doing. Check out Nick Chuck's All Combine Team. Now it comes out throughout the weekend.

01:16:21
Speaker 3: Right now, it comes out after the weekend.

01:16:23
Speaker 1: It'll be like, okay, because you were writing, you were writing today, you're getting that work done. You're going to do that as well throughout the weekend, and then the big All Combine piece will come out at the very end of it all and you're going to join the show. Our next show will be on Sunday evening, so keep an eye out for that. Thank you to Eric Roberts for hanging out at what's probably a quiet Inglewood right now. In terms of NFL media, it's going to be busy though in Indianapolis. Have fun, Nick, and we'll be watching the quarterbacks, the offensive lineman, running backs, all of it. Over the weekend. We'll see a Sunday out

01:17:06
Speaker 7: MHM