Justin Volpe : How Peer Support Changes Lives

Welcome to Why Not Me The World? Podcast hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
Humanity over Handcuffs the Silent Crisis Special event. Joining us
US today is Justin Volpi. He's a certified recovery peer
specialist and a shining example of how individuals living with
mental illness can play a vital role in collaborating with
law enforcement, service providers and anyone in need of support.
Justin has trained over twenty five hundred police officers through
a crisis Intervention Team program and continues to make a
national impact by helping others. He's here to share his
inspiring story and wealth of knowledge. It's an honor to
have him with us today. Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Oh, it's my pleasure. You're a mental health advocate. Can
you tell us what led you down this path?
You know, my own diagnosis when I was twenty two
or twenty three years old really shaped that journey to
want to get back to the community and help other people.
Yeah, it's always great to help others. Can you give
the listeners a little of your background so they can
understand what led to this path that you're doing.
Yeah, absolutely, Tony. I live in Miami, Florida, and at
twenty two or twenty three years old, I was struggling
with substance use and alcohol issues. I was put into
a rehab and I thought that that was my problem,
But when I stayed clean off the drugs and alcohol,
those problems persisted, and it ended up being a diagnosis
of what is now considered schizoeffective disorder. I was hearing voices,
I was seeing things that weren't there all in all,
while working and trying to maintain my daily life. This
disorder led to a lot of turbulent times in my
life and ended up being incarcerated at twenty three years
old in two thousand and seven in the Miami Dade
County Jail.
During your time of incarceration, was there a pivotal event
or experience that occurred which fundamentally altered your life, compelling
you to recognize the necessity of personal improvement and inspiring
you to leverage the insights and knowledge you acquired to
positively impact the lives of others.
Well, you know something about some mental health diagnosis is
everybody else seems to know that there's an issue, but
to know inside that something's not adding up takes a
level of awareness that I did not have at the time.
But it wasn't until I went into the judicial system.
I was released from court from jail through a court
program to help people with mental health and co occurring
disorders called the Jail Diversion Program. That's where I got
introduced to Judge Lifeman's program. After I got released into
this outpatient treatment program, I was giving the support I
needed to get back on my feet, given education, a
lot of different types of therapy, and access to resources
I didn't have before. After I started to take this
recovery journey, I started to feel better, and then within
eight months of being incarcerated, I was given an opportunity
to become a peer specialist. A peer specialist is somebody
with lived experience in the jail of diversion program. So
as soon as I got it and understood what I
had to do to maintain, I was given the opportunity
to give service to others being released from the justice system,
and I did that for fourteen years. Tony and I
got thousands of people out of incarceration to help them
get back on their feet and stay out of places
like the streets and the hospitals and the jails by
trying things a different way.
Everyone has their own unique style when it comes to
helping others. Some lean towards a more aggressive approach, others
take a jungle a little more passive tack, and then
there's everything in between. What was your style, like, how
did you go about so putting those who needed your
help and how does your help affect them well?
A peer specialist and a peer role is really a
mutual understanding that you have with the people that you're
working with. So the unique style that I really had
to do was become a bridger in the community. So
many different people don't talk to each other. The jails
and the courts, don't talk to the treatment providers, they
don't talk to the housing providers, they don't talk to
transportation and a peer specialist. My role was to really
get everybody on the same page and hustle out there
on the street every day because I didn't work in
the office. I was on the street hustling for people
to keep them out of these systems. And some of
that was having open lines of communication, showing up for
people to doctor's appointments, bringing them to court, getting them closed,
getting them food, getting them transportation, all in their wellness
journey to actually avoid a justice system where that would
not help get them better.
Well, that's a great description of what you do. I
think that's going to help a lot of people understand it. Now,
what about CIT training? Do you do anything like that
to help police navigate situations?
Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. I do see it training.
I've trained over thirty five hundred police officers in Miami
Dade County, and that training would help keep somebody out
of the justice system all together at first. So if
a police officer received that training, they should if they
spot somebody in crisis, be able to de escalate them
and not arrest them and get them to the proper
resources if needed. That's not a jail cell.
Yeah, that's really really good. Now, what about the communications centers.
When we think of first responders, we always think about police.
Yet before the police get there, you've got nine to
one one. Do you do any work with them so
they can get the information needed to hopefully send a
CIIT trained officer to the scene. Have you worked with
the nine to one one operators a little bit?
I've done some training with the mobile crisis teams that
would actually respond other than police if a call comes
into a crisis line, and we've done some training with
nine to one one operators so they can help distinguish
a call that may be someone in crisis, so they
know the kind of vibe of what that feels like,
because without that training, they may not understand the difference
between if an actual crime is happening or if somebody
is experiencing a crisis.
Okay, have you ever been involved in a crisis situation
where you've witnessed and assisted both a police in managing
the scene and the individual in need.
I have been involved in a lot of crisis situations
in the community like you just explained, and my biggest
thing is communication, making sure the person being served are
met and that they're understood completely, as well as the
police is so kind of like a bridger in between
in that relationship to make sure everything's good and working
smoothly to help that person in need.
Okay, suppose you arrive at a scene where someone is
experienced psychosis and facing serious challenges. The responding police officer
hasn't received CI training yet you're there to assist. What
would your approach be. Police officers often have only seconds
to direct to a situation and the goal is to
prevent it from escalating into something harmful for anyone involved.
How would you de escalate the situation, help the officer
understand what you're doing, yet supporting the person in crisis
so that ideally things resolve peacefully and don't take a
turn for the worse.
You know, life's all about relationships, right, So even if
somebody was not trained properly and they were a participant
in the jail diversion program at the time, I was
able to stand up for them and vouch for them,
to say, hey, I'm a core employee, this person is
working with us, kind of like they're okay, you know
what's the problem, let's talk about this and even you know,
make an excuse for the person if they're not doing well, like, oh,
you know, something happened. But it's all about education and relationships.
Having at the time a county or court badge when
speaking to somebody else that may work for the same department,
and the police goes a long way on the street
than just somebody else that they may not recognize or
be able to relate to in that situation.
Dealing with situations like psychosis or major meltdown and autism
can be challenging. These conditions often present complex symptoms that
are difficult to diagnose, especially when you only have a
few minutes or seconds to assess a situation and determine
the best way to manage it so to prevent it
from escalating to a situation that gets completely out of control.
The biggest thing, which is kind of the opposite of
the way officers are taught to respond immediately to things
and they have that triggered stress of responding to calls
all day and they're ready to go, is really to
take a step back and helping have clear communications like
if the officers trained have that call come in through
the right path to let people know, let them know
that you know this person may be experiencing crisis or
a difficult time right now to really approach them differently.
And I've seen officers really strive with this. We know
so much is going wrong and so many of these
encounters nationally and it's just not right. And there's good
police officers caught on the other side of that too
that I've worked with that are more effective than some
social workers that I've worked with. So it really depends
on the person responding to these calls and their education
and don't want to serve. You know, I worked with
this one officer. They were doing people's laundry on the street.
They were helping them with their laundry, helping them get
to the appointments. You know, incredible stuff that you don't
hear about. Then, unfortunately, you'll see somebody that's not trained
well or at all and respond to somebody in crisis,
and they're the ones that make the news.
Yes, there are definitely a lot of good people out
there doing their jobs and they deserve recognition as well.
How does the training you provide to police officers intersect
with the role of the specialist who supports individuals navigating
the ongoing court process, particularly given that not all individuals
involved have consistent police encounters, and considering the officers you
may train may not directly correlate with those responding to
specific calls.
Well, let me just clarify a few things. So my
job as a peer specialist was to support people in
the ongoing court proper. Not everybody had a police encounter
all the time, but it did happen from time to time.
The training I do with police is off hours, right
to do the training separately, so that may not be
a direct correlation between the officers I'm able to work
with on the training to some of these calls.
Okay, that makes sense. Now do you help them when
they get into the legal system, or do you help
them before they get into legal system? Or do you
try to do both both?
Because it's really about education. And I don't work there anymore.
I work for a national mental health agency that's in Arlington,
Virginia now, but I continue to do CIT training as
a volunteer with officers. But when I worked for the
court for fourteen years, everybody had agreed voluntarily to be
a part of this jail diversion program, So even though
they had criminal charges pending, they were given a chance
to go on an alternate route to get some help
to get the state attorney to drop the charges. So
if they successfully completed this program, which involved community treatment
and help, peer support, getting jobs, getting housing, if they
were able to navigate that, the state would drop their charges.
Okay, did you ever have a situation where you was
trying to assist someone yet in spite of all your efforts,
it didn't seem to click for you. The more you
both tried, the more you felt it wasn't going to work.
And then after some time, whatever that was, it came together.
Have you ever experienced something like that?
Absolutely? You see, you have to meet people where they're at,
and with peer support, you're not forcing this approach on
them because it's really up to the person to want
to make that change. And unfortunately, as we know, some
people don't get to make that change. Right Because what
I've seen in my experience of getting thousands of people
out of jail for almost fifteen years, is that people
do get incarcerated, they do live on the streets, and
sometimes they do die. And that is a harsh reality
that I have to tell you that just because they
were involved in this program, it wasn't a miracle either,
but there were people that did come back multiple times,
and I saw people get help multiple times, So that
means they were arrested multiple times, given multiple chance at
this program, and then finally be able to receive some help.
One gentleman was able to close out multiple felonies, go
back to school, get sober in a recovery program, and
work again and not be involved with the justice system
for I think it's been at least ten years now,
so that that's an accomplishment. You know, you look at recidivism,
you know, you can't expect people to maybe like become
doctors and lawyers. They should, and they can. But what
I look at as a win is staying off the street,
stay out of incarceration, living some sort of meaningful life
that matters to the person.
Can you tell us about the company that you're working
with now?
I work for an organization dubbed the acronym NASHVID, which
is the National Association of State Mental Health Program Directors
long acronym. So say that three times fast.
Yeah, that's a tongue twister for sure. So are you
in Virginia now?
I'm in Miami, Florida. I work remotely and I work
with states now I use all that experience that I
learned from working in Miami on the streets and my
own personal experience of recovery, which, by the way, you know,
I live a fully functional life for somebody that's been
diagnosed with the illness like schizophrenia and schis of effective disorder.
I have a family, I have a home, I have
two cars. You know, I live a life that before
in this country, if you got a diagnosis, it was
a death sentence basically to have or a life of institutions.
But my job out is really to work with states
and territories and their behavioral health teams and to really
advocate for people with lived experience like myself and other
people in different aspects of their community that they're a
part of their states and their programming, and that they
continue that when they build systems out that people like
us are included and at the table.
I think that's awesome. Now, when you first started, you
was just in Miami and Dade County.
Is that correct, Yes, So when.
You started out, you was working within the legal system,
people on the street, trying to help them in that way.
Now you're working with state legislators and people of that nature.
Is that correct?
Really state behavioral health teams, So it did go from
a local to a national level, and that is different.
It's not necessarily like within legislation and policy, but it
does touch that sometimes with the people that we work
with at the States. Through my time at the Jail
Diverse Program, Judge Lifeman and I starred in a documentary
called The Definition of Insanity, which is amazing if you
want to talk about it a little bit later. And
I was in a ken Burns documentary on youth mental health,
Hiding in Plane Sight, which also aired on PBS three
years ago.
That's awesome. Documentaries are just so good. Can you expand
on those documentaries a little?
So? The Definition of Insanity was based on my time
at the Jail Diversion Program, which I explained to you,
and it kind of encompasses that peer specialists, cit officers
and participants of the court going through the different stages
of the program. And it highlights three clients going through
the process and seeing their ups and downs and what
it kind of entailed. And that was just a snapshot
of kind of what our daily life was like. And
then Hiding in Plane Site was a ken Burns film
on youth mental health because the youth mental health is
experiencing crisis too. And it followed about twenty to twenty
five people, a lot of young adults, some youth. I
was thirty five when they made the film. I made
the cut, Thank god. I don't know how I got
in a youth film at thirty five, But they followed
their stories and how they came across the system, and
it is a very powerful film. They're both very powerful films.
So have you seen being in both these documentaries have
had an impact on your life? Have you noticed other
people looking at you giving you more credibility because of this?
Yeah? Absolutely, it adds credibility. It adds credibility to just
stay above ground and just to live a life that
as somebody with my lived experience live a better life
than some people that are more educated than me. They
may make more money than me, but you know, I
live a good life and that shows and shines through
of what this works about, about doing the next right
thing and showing up every day.
Absolutely, and it's amazing how you've made your mark in Miami.
Now that you've expanded to the national stage to help people.
What do you envision for yourself. Over the next let's say,
three to five years, how do you see your role
evolving and what change do you hope to inspire with
your work.
Yeah, my lens is really just an you know, I'd
love to see more expansion on police training people with
live experience as part of those trainings. So you think
about people in crisis experiencing different things, even autism, you know,
they need to be a part of these trainings so
police and first responders can really understand what it's like
firsthand to experience something like that. Right. The other thing
I want to see is better access to care for people,
different alternatives instead of traditional healthcare. This is just my
wish list. You know, it's not saying it's going to happen,
but there should be other pathways and chances for people
to recover. Not every everybody like myself will get help
through the justice system, and we need avenues preventively that
people can walk in the open doors before they end
up in a police car or a jail cell.
Those are great points. As you said, some of those
can be implemented, Unfortunately some won't. How do we elevate
this to a level where there's a stronger presence addressing
the needs of not just autistic individuals or those with
mental health challenges, but the entire spectrum. Mental health is
a broad umbrella. It covers many different conditions. So how
do we get all these entities to collaborate effectively and
work with people like you who can share real, lived experiences.
How do we help those sitting behind desks understand what
you're trying to convey about the realities faced by people
living on the streets.
It really, really advocacy is involved in all of it,
and that we really need to advocate for these systems
to be better, and that you know, just because we're
gonna throw money out of situation, we keep getting funding, funding, funding,
but it seems like these problems are worse every year.
So how can we get our best bang for our book?
How can we make sure, I think you know, instead
of putting out like a national initiative for everybody, it
really starts, like you said, at the local community level.
And every community looks different, every state looks different, every
community within the state looks different, and there should be
some things that are common sense for all but unique
and specific to those populations being served.
It's amazing that you just brought up what you did.
I was speaking with a judge from Texas just last week.
He took a minute, thought a little bit, and then
his answer was common sense. It just shows how important
common sense is to so many different people, at so
many different levels. So how do we bridge the gap
and connect with people who only see the stigma? How
do we reach those who haven't had the lived experiences
like you have. If we can meet them on their
level and show them we're all just regular people, maybe
we can break through those misconceptions. So how do we
get past the barriers and help them see a different,
better perspective?
You know? Sometimes you know they say a consultant or
a subject matter expert is somebody that lives, you know,
in another state, because there's people in your local community
or state that you're hearing. They may be annoying, right,
you hear the same thing. We need change, we need change.
But if somebody over here says, hey, we did this,
it is wow, what a great idea, and the people
in the states say, well, we've been talking about that
for years, you know. So really having these people at
the table and when you look at community healing, when
you look at these practices, having open forums where discussions
can be had and tensions don't have to be high
to really break down those barriers. And that looks different
in a lot of places. And you know I am generalizing.
If you really want to reach the population you're serving,
they need to be at the table no matter what
it is. And we need to really remember and get
like you said, get back to fundamentals, common sense. We
need to just sit down and talk with each other
and listen to each other, look at the data that
backs all of it, look at the facts. Is this
working or not? And if it's not, let's do something
together because we're supposed to be in this together and
live in a country where we should all strive.
Absolutely. I think that's the most important message that we
can put out there, is that we need to learn
and we need to adapt to each other in all
our differences. We need to find a way to share
your story with people so they'll listen and learn from it.
Hopefully that can help break down the stigma. Once someone
hears what you've been through, the challenges you've faced, how
you've overcome them, and where you are now, they should
be inspired. They should be standing in awe welcome you,
rather than casting judgment or turning away.
I think there's a lot of old myths about people
that are unstable and violent. People with serious mental illness
like schizophrenia and bipolar are actually more likely to be
victims of crimes than actually commit them, And there's a
lot of old kind of thinking around that, or that
people they have seen on the subway maybe talking to themselves,
not smelling well, and they just think that that's all
of them, that's what that looks like, and that's all
they are, when that's just what can happen, but it's
not the only pathway to healing. Yeah.
Absolutely, And to kind of further what you just said,
I think one of the biggest challenges after speaking with
doctors and lawyers and judges and all the legislators, is
the big unknown for people that's never dealt with anyone
that autistic or has mental illness, they just get scared
by it, and unfortunately, because that, they can be very judgmental.
I think you earlier said getting everybody at the table.
I think that's a great idea. Unfortunately, some of those
people that will be at that table are some of
the people that I just talked about that could be
very judgmental. How do we get them to be less judgmental?
Because if they see what you've done and people that
you've helped have done, it just shows that it can
be so much better than what they think it is.
We should have those family member voices at the table, too, Tony,
because who could speak more than a mother's love or
a family's love for somebody that has experienced some of
these difficulties. But you're right, their stigma is a real thing,
and I still encounter it. I think you know, I'm
on a stage in my life where people don't know
that I live with some of these illnesses or disorders,
and when I come and approach that I do, it
shocks people. And my message can go a long way.
But it's still a struggle, and we need to do
better to educate these people that may have biases and
stigmas towards people with mental health conditions and autism. We
still got more work to do. That's why we do this,
That's why we keep coming back because we're not there yet.
Yes, I totally agree with you. So in closing, what
would you like to tell the listeners that you think
is very important that they just need to know on
what you're trying to do.
I want the listener to hear that anybody can recover.
You know, I was written off and said to leave
to dead on the street. Here I have a fully functional,
great life, written off by doctors, family members, you name it.
And I kept coming back And just know that you
can never count somebody out and that there's always still hope.
And if you have that glimeral hope and you put
in the work, that you can recover and you can
live a great life. And you deserve it and everybody
deserves it.
Yeah, I totally agree. Well, this has been great, great conversation,
great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to
come on.
Thanks, Tony. I really appreciate you having me on the show.
It's been my pleasure. Thanks again, thanks for taking the
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