Taylor Higgins: Best Kept Stranger and the Scars of Toxic Love

[SPEAKER_01]: Today, on misunderstood with Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: It starts off as a, what I thought was a love story, and then he became several, and I didn't think he ever could be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Will you tell our listeners basically the arc of the book and of your life?
[SPEAKER_01]: Young girl meets baseball player kind of taken by the lifestyle.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a new book out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us about the story and how this unfolded for you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Between the stitching ends, I meet a great guy and I told myself I could never track somebody like that first book ever again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: The mother's character is Claire.
[SPEAKER_01]: This story really talks about her obsession with loving you.
[SPEAKER_00]: My mother and I have a very uniquely intimate relationship and it caused a lot of I think issues when it came to my romantic partnerships.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are your plans now?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have an idea for a third book, actually, again, based on true events, so we're just gonna keep writing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to misunderstood.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a certain kind of love we don't like to talk about, the love that hurts.
[SPEAKER_01]: The love that shapes us in ways we don't even realize until years later.
[SPEAKER_01]: And often, that kind of love starts at home.
[SPEAKER_01]: A toxic relationship with a parent can follow you like a shadow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Showing up in the partners you choose, the patterns you repeat, and the way you see yourself long after you've grown up.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what makes Taylor Higgins' work so powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her first book between the stitching was a raw and unforgettable memoir, and now she's back with best kept stranger out this week, which is a brand new novel.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fiction, but it's drawn from the truth so many of us know too well.
[SPEAKER_01]: The messiness of love, the damage of family secrets, and the patterns we don't even realize were trapped in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Taylor doesn't write for escapism, she writes to make you feel seen even in the parts of your story you'd rather not admit out loud.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this conversation we go deeper into why these toxic bonds are so hard to break and how telling these stories even through fiction can be the first step through breaking free.
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't just an episode about a book, it's about the courage to face where we come from and the freedom that comes when we finally choose a different path.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please enjoy my conversation with author, Taylor Higgins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Taylor, it is so awesome to have you here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for joining me today on misunderstood.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I first heard about you when I watched my friend Heather interview you for juicy scoop and I was listening all about your life and the memoir you had just written and I was fascinated because there was a lot of themes in there that resonated with me and obviously with readers because it became an immediate bestseller, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what a phenomenal book between the stitching was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really didn't expect it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I self-published it and within two weeks, as we said, international bestseller because it was relatable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to get into that because there are so many people that feel like they have a story.
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to tell, but before we talk about your writing and all that, can you tell people who don't know you like who are you, where you came from, who is Taylor Higgins?
[SPEAKER_00]: I, small town girl born and raised just north of Boston.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, people are like, how did you get into writing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why write books?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's truly just been my, my vice.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been how I deal with things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just started putting pen to paper and found that that was my biggest passion through that.
[SPEAKER_00]: In my spare time though, I'm a, I should say, by a day of a matchmaker and a dog mom, just a normal girl.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So many questions about that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what caught you into writing your first book?
[SPEAKER_00]: pain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like, so I went through this devastating relationship and I'm like, there's no way anybody can relate to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who wouldn't even talk to?
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried, you know, you feel like you kind of exhaust your friendships and your resources and the people closest to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, where do I go from here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Started writing things down.
[SPEAKER_00]: The more I spoke about it, the more I actually realized this crazy story that I thought nobody could relate to, more people could.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I think I might be on to something here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for God, no, a story is born from that.
[SPEAKER_01]: between the stitch and can you kind of describe so it was a memoir and by the way it's very much felt like a beach read though it did not even seem like a memoir because some of the stories in there were so incredibly crazy so will you tell our listeners basically the arc of the book and of your life
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, so I wrote it actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: It started when I was in my early twenties.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, young girl meets baseball player kind of taken by the lifestyle.
[SPEAKER_00]: He played minor league baseball.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was just really interested.
[SPEAKER_00]: It starts off as a what I thought was a love story.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it just became he became someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think he ever could be, you know, lies, manipulation, cheating, all of the things, but to the most excessive level possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I kind of document, in like almost like a diary format, like it should feel super personal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I take you through what I experienced in real time and how I was feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's so interesting because so many of the stories I feel like we have all gone through in one way or another, maybe not to that extent.
[SPEAKER_01]: But can you share some of the stories?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know it's like, listen, we meet this guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: We follow the love.
[SPEAKER_01]: They seem amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't see any of the red flags.
[SPEAKER_01]: We meet their parents.
[SPEAKER_01]: They meet ours.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then things start to crumble.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know there was a very weird relationship that he had with his mother, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I knew that from the start.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they were kind of not ancestral, but very close.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they, you know, she clipped his toenails, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just bank account.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they were just like little things like, huh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, nothing at first.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can look best at first because we have a great connection, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's, he's the one.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's telling me that I'm the one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm hearing all the things we're building a life together.
[SPEAKER_00]: He loved bomb due at the beginning, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was, and you know, like, he was the kindest person if you met him, you'd be like, I don't, I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, soft spoke and really quiet reserved guy says all of the right things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then as time went on, he just behind who he was behind closed doors became so much more scary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And can you talk about, I mean, I mean, I know you share a lot of this in the book, but some of how he would react like you would question him on things or you would bring up some stuff with the mom and he would like throw himself on the floor and have a temper tantrum, which didn't fit who this original personality was, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like the slow unfolding of it too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was just a little explosive.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the next thing, you know, he's, you know, there was a, if you can't win confronting him about any type of, you know, why you're your phones face down or, you know, your mom is asking about why your bank account is at this number and it should be at this number or why you spent money on me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd ask him certain things and it just would become the problem was like, you know, just attacking you, jumping on you when you were trying to ask a simple question.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just grew from there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's interesting is you talk about how that was a time where I guess you ruined a wedding or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was like a big scenario with your cousin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it my cousin's wedding?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your cousin's wedding and there's like this whole blow up when you end up with blood all over your dress and
[SPEAKER_01]: and the whole family and I mean I could see it and this is why I guess they're contacting you to make this into the screen but you know as everyone's kind of coming out of the wedding to see what's going on with you and the parking lot including the bride and groom and it's just insanity and I would assume a lot of people would think okay that's the end of this relationship but you stay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I stay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do not leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's this crazy and I don't know if you've experienced it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just when you're in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot see through and everyone around you is telling you you have to leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know it's not right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you're moving yourself almost feels impossible and what it takes to actually get to the final moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that final moment that actually makes you leave, nothing like what you'd expected.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not those grand moments.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in the smallest, most private moments I feel like that we experience, like, I have to leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't do this anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you talk about him having a bunch of different personalities that kind of unfolded later.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you find this laptop as you're in a closet, I think cleaning up stuff for him or something while he's way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you find that he's been having these chats
[SPEAKER_01]: with women and men, and sexually explicit chats.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, so what I was curious about with that is was he kinky and like like that with you?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, like our sexual life was very vanilla.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was pretty cut and dry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing crazy, nothing experimental, like nothing what you would think.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can understand why it seemed all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, who is this person?
[SPEAKER_01]: and he denied it and he said it was his brother and also said, by the way, did he ever eventually come clean and admit to you why he was behaving in all these crazy ways?
[SPEAKER_00]: Never.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think he read the book?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: People asked me that all the time and they say I've heard that his him and his family just can't be bothered to pick it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, I'm sure they read every word and we're just like, oh my God, I hate this girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, but you don't run into him ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, so he actually lives in Georgia.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm up north here in Massachusetts.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, no run into each other at the grocery store.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, so now I heard that that book was being optioned into a television film, something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the latest with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's still currently option for film.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a team of really amazing producers and writers on it, but Hollywood is Hollywood.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't even have as much information as I'd like to share with you on that, but stay tuned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, anyways, for people that have not read between the stitching, you should read it because it's phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, as a memoir, it reads like a B-tree, so it's something that it's not gonna be like a typical boring memoir.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Kudos to you for that, for, you know, figuring out your writing style.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you have a new book out, best kept stranger.
[SPEAKER_01]: This new book is more fiction.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's based on some true events, but still very emotionally rich.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us about the story and how this unfolded for you?
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a bit of a follow-up to between the stitching.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first book, people wanted to know what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you begin dating after that?
[SPEAKER_00]: What was life like after such a debilitating relationship?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to write a sequel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now while this is fictional, it is still answering, you know, who was I going to accept that between the stitching ends?
[SPEAKER_00]: I made a great guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I told myself, I could never track somebody like that first book ever again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could spot a red flag from mile away at my radar spot on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I attracted that relationship tenfold.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to think that like I could spot all those flags and I've been through and I've healed and all of that stuff, it didn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually did it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I document the second relationship and how
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you can go through something really hard and it can still happen again.
[SPEAKER_00]: No matter how sharp you think your tools are, you can still do it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I also talk about who's around me.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, my upbringing, why was I okay with these types of relationships?
[SPEAKER_00]: What happened?
[SPEAKER_00]: So my mother and I have a very uniquely intimate relationship, we always have.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it caused a lot of, I think, issues when it came to my romantic partnerships.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you start this book off the mother, the mother's character is Claire.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: The, the, your character is still Taylor.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it starts off very much talking about Claire and where she came from and her upbringing and how then she, who she is as a person and why.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the story really talks about her obsession with loving you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's very clear she loves you even more so than the brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you really have a brother?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she talks about how she's really obsessed with you and you could do no wrong and you are the chosen one and how that ends up affecting relationships because relationships end up almost triggering her or threatening her.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's almost like she wants to keep you in bad relationships because then you keep running back to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, did I get that kind of right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Spot on, Craig.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so and it's interesting because I think and I told you, I have a terrible relationship with my mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I ever was to say, listen, this is a classic, you know, classic narcissistic abuse from a parent.
[SPEAKER_01]: She would say, I don't have any of those qualities.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have spent since I was a little, I'm fifty.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then since I was a little girl, I've had this back and forth with my mother, where me as an only child, I've always wanted that relationship, always forgiven anything she did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I cannot, it's not my episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I will tell you some of the things quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: that she did were beyond what anyone could ever imagine a mother doing with a child so much so that even today, she still treats me like I'm fourteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm engaged to be married, getting married New Year's Eve.
[SPEAKER_01]: My fiance actually disinvited her from the wedding last week.
[SPEAKER_01]: because of her own behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was the first time somebody actually stood up for me because most of the time she tries to develop a relationship with the man to then say something's wrong with me, you know, and this is the first time that someone stood up for me instead of took her side.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, enough about me, but I totally understood that and for me that stood out in the book and that weaving of that relationship was something that I was like, oh, I get this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyone that has experienced that relationship with a parent that is overbearing and loves them so much, but it almost seems like hatred.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what resonated with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is why exactly why I was so excited for this conversation because I knew you could relate to some of the content and share that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So will you tell your readers what they can expect?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because again, I mean, it is a beech read kind of like this is something you can get through and like get into it and want to, you know, turn on the lights early before you go to work to finish reading.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it really flows really well and is good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fascinating what you've done here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're writing style.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love writing Psycho Thriller, so that's kind of my theme, but I really like to just pull on the real relatable day-to-day stuff, the little moments.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's why people enjoy my writing overall.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I would say.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what to expect?
[SPEAKER_00]: So twisted family dynamics, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mother-daughter dynamic relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's a strange mother-daughter or parental figure, a string relationship with a parental figure, this is a huge story for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then toxic and abusive relationships there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like a cliche.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even like to use word narcissism anymore because it's so overused, but it's still such a big issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, walking ourselves through painful relationships and how we heal from trauma is always going to be a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so talk to me about writing, though, because so many people at the stage, first of all, use AI now, but also have a ghost writer and your voice is very much your own.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you talk about what the process is for writing for people who really feel like they have a story to tell and they don't know if they should do it in a fiction way, nonfiction, like how do you get started?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great question.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of my most frequently asked questions because everyone has a story to share that it's it's big for me my process is very simple.
[SPEAKER_00]: I enjoy writing to my core so I just sit down open up a Microsoft Word document and start letting it flow.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do do a little bit of I'm a very linear storyteller so I need to go through each chapter.
[SPEAKER_00]: before starting anything I will sit down with a notebook and just kind of plot out the expectations of like Paul Park how many chapters I'll have and what I'd like to achieve in those chapters.
[SPEAKER_00]: But overall it's like it's almost like a surprise.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this story I began it in the ending has transformed probably three different times.
[SPEAKER_00]: I almost find my way through the story as I go through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I was gonna ask.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like do you know the ending when you started it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I did and it changed, like I said, three different times.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think you think you have a great beginning and you think you have a great ending and it does, you get into the story and magic happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just hits you sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you're writing, do you follow an arc of the story and kind of plan out when it's going to be or you're actually writing dialogue as you go through it?
[SPEAKER_00]: As I go through it, I really don't plot too much before.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like when there's much structure, you've almost box yourself in and you feel like you're, if you're not achieving your goals that you've set yourself, you can get a little hairy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now everyone, their process is different, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's such a personal thing, right, process.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are looking to tell a story, figure out what works for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of trial and error too, but start by plotting it and then arrange your thoughts to make sure you get it out on paper, but just begin.
[SPEAKER_01]: What would your suggestion be for people about character development?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that I think is very hard for people to really separate different characters and have specific traits to each one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you have to think of people in your day-to-day life to and can't make, you know, everyone, my whole, the whole point of best kept stranger is that title alone speaks so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we all have parts of ourselves that we don't want the world to know about.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always parts of ourselves that we'd like to keep hidden.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to expose all angles of a character.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want really true character development, we have to hate you at one point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to love you at one point.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to disappoint me.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to go through all of the feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every character must make you feel all of those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So while they're doing horrible things, you should almost feel bad for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And vice versa.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's take us through the journey of the emotional state that a human would go through in a daily basis.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Claire is such a layered unsettling character.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know she came from your relationship with your mother, but how much of it is true?
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you talk about your relationship with your mother a little bit?
[SPEAKER_00]: Today, this is actually the first time I'm talking about it, which is it's so exciting to share.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our relationship is really strong today.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really proud of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a period of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't speak for years because of the events that unfolded in this story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Many of them are true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Plenty of them are not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will leave that to the readers imagination to figure out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's, I'm just really glad that we were able to overcome because this, this book is dark.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope anyone that is experiencing a strain relationship with a parental figure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think at one point I was okay with saying, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a good life to my mother.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt very defective because I'm like, what's wrong with me?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's my mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: She gave me life and I heard it from everybody too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to be able to come out on the other side and and say, no, no, this is
[SPEAKER_00]: We made it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing that you're at that stage.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I can't tell you how many times throughout my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: People would be like, why don't you just forgive her?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you try and I would always try and then within minutes of being around her, I just knew that a lot of this, you know, you just, there are things that you cannot get over or behaviors that just do not change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at many points in my life, people would be like, but she seems so sweet and she's so great and she's so normal and I feel like I'd be lucky to have her as a mom and people just do not get what you see in those moments when no one's looking.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, it was almost like that gaslighting of where someone would whisper something in your ear to make you flip out and people would be like, what's wrong with you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you flipping out for no reason?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the kind of relationship that I had with my mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I'm so happy to hear that you guys are in a better place, so has she read the book?
[SPEAKER_00]: She has and it was incredibly painful and I am glad that she was able to get through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I commend her for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she has read it and it was difficult for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as long as I'm assuming it's not like she called you every two minutes being like that didn't happen that way and this didn't happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she thinks that I have a wonderful imagination.
[SPEAKER_00]: But honestly, some version of the truth is hidden in every page.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, and we all are open to our versions of the truth and perspective is everything, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she has her story and I'll always have mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yes, it's difficult to read.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even looking back, I'll open a random page and I'm like, oh, and it brings you right back to a moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just so crazy to think, like, I was truly okay with not forgiving her in this lifetime for the events that happened in this story.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here we are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you want your readers to walk away feeling or thinking after reading this book?
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them to feel seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever, I hope this pulls on some corner of your life, the darkest corner, something that you're experiencing that no one's talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've exhausted your resources with friends, family members, and you feel like you have nobody to talk to or walk you through the events that you're dealing with, let the story be an outlet for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, now what's exciting to me is that you are, first of all, how long did this take to write?
[SPEAKER_00]: of five years on and off, the better half of five years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so now you're on the other side of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This book is coming out this month, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so excited for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, what do you tell people what you do on a daily basis?
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your dating life been like since you've been writing these stories?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, people are always like, am I going to be the next book or am I going to be your husband?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's scary.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my dating life has been quiet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I broke up, I ended an engagement.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll learn the book that I did ended an engagement few years back and it's been quiet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I took some time off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really wanted a traditional publishing deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my first book was self-published and anyone can do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to go to the traditional route.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was able to lucky enough to get a publishing deal last summer.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the meantime, I was just writing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But by day, I am a matchmaker, which is a very interesting job because being single and being a matchmaker is a strange thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also being a writer and having a bird's eye view to the most vulnerable state that people are in is when they're searching for love.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been just an honor and a privilege to as a creator.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's interesting that you're a matchmaker because it's clear that for a while there you like many women had a bad picker, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You said you got into similar situations over and over again, which makes you an expert now.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, for other people for sure for you, maybe not so much, but I'm sure you have that experience now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you really know and can be aware.
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you say in the matchmaking industry is like why are people coming to matchmakers most likely?
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of reasons mainly for, I think, privacy.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people are also just exhausted from the apps.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's time consuming, swiping.
[SPEAKER_00]: People aren't who they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Usually they don't, they, you know, we present ourselves online a different way than we do in real life.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're just looking for a more dignified approach to meeting people, but also want the added perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we follow.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the middle man here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to make sure that if a second date needs to happen, it will.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to coaching you through every step of your membership and how you dress, how you talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you, we're going to be talking about red flags.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the things that we see on on dates, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have right in your back pocket.
[SPEAKER_01]: The people that come to you, are they a total mess?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like do you have to be like, dude, you can't wear that those pants.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can't talk like that or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Plenty of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So after every date, we call you the next morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll go through the feedback.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want you to, I want to know what you wore.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what you said, what the conversation was like, and there's been times people shrub on dates with flops and you know, you are close that they look like they just work doing yard work all day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's been all things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just, it's
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a thing, but then there's plenty of, you know, we work with all walks of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: But of course, we're doing a lot of coaching as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your success rate?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to measure success because our youngest client is twenty eight in our oldest is like seventy five.
[SPEAKER_00]: So everyone's goals are quite different.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, we want everyone in the long-term relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we measure that at about, you know, eighty-ish percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's interesting because on dating apps,
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have that middleman.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have that reference to be like, this is a normal human being.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, one of the first questions I started asked people is, what would your ex say about you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I need to know everything right now so we can just figure it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't need to waste six months realizing this, this, this, and this one, you could just tell me right off the bat.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's a great question.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's nice because as we get to know people, we get to know their patterns and how what people say about them on a date.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're making these matches and we have this like, it's kind of like, oh, there's a lot of voices that go into it, which is nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now you are in a long-term relationship, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you've actually moved for this gentleman.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So do we think that this is going to be the one or like, what are your standards now for what the one is going to be?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's the one.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is everything that I have never experienced before, and to me, that's a green light.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, calm, and he has been the same person since day one, and he has pursued me consistently and relentlessly since day one, but not in a love-bombie way, just a very consistent, masculine way, which is nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: How I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: My soul is at peace, and that's all I need to know.
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you tell people that are single and looking for love about love bombing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there are so many people that just get so swept away with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels good in the moment, but when it feels hot and heavy, it first, those things crash and burn very quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if it feels a little, maybe I'll see him again, or, you know, it was okay, yeah, feed into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something there.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're willing to see somebody again, give it a second chance.
[SPEAKER_00]: The ones that are like electricity is causing through your veins, crash and burn.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Taylor, don't you feel like there are so many people that get swept away with that that line of like, oh my god, I feel like I've known them forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: They told me that they feel like they've known me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is the scariest thing ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't know that person.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've met them for four hours or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that feeling feels really good when someone's like, oh, I know you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I know you.
[SPEAKER_01]: They completely dunk and you actually want the time to let them know you so that they see all the good and the bad and the stuff that they feel like they know is almost like the toxic stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's like the scariest thing and I have
[SPEAKER_01]: a ton of girlfriends that'll go out on a date and be like, oh my god, this is the one, this is it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, okay, run.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you, you have to flow the hell down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so many people don't get that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But everyone's in a rush because none of us want to die alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're all getting older very quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there are clocks we are looking at them but I always say like if somebody is a great data like if someone is good at dating they're usually not good in a long term relationship so if that guy is like amazing on the date and he just is like your soul mate and he's giving you that energy he's been he does that every week he's a serial data
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's, you know, I always wish that people were friends first because then you really see the person, the guy I'm now marrying, you know, friends with him first.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my daughter got to know him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to see him around other people and, you know, it was, then you really know the person.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like you're just figuring it out as you're going through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I loved obviously my, my daughter said to me, oh, he's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't give me the egg.
[SPEAKER_01]: with you so funny and it was just about a friend, you know, so and she wasn't threatened by him.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's harder to when you have children because they hate anyone you date.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I love that you're a matchmaker.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so so what are your plans now?
[SPEAKER_01]: What now that this book?
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's just coming out, but are you are you officially a writer?
[SPEAKER_01]: Does this make you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this going to be your job?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want another book to come out?
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see a life without writing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I would feel empty if it fills me in some way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have an idea for a third book and it's actually again based on true events.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're just going to keep writing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think matchmaking almost fuels my passion for writing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just being around people is good for anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And will it be like a dark story?
[SPEAKER_01]: Will it be a love story?
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: What can I be another?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I like writing dark.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: My mind just automatically goes there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, um, it's about a murder.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, and it's about, it's a true story.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it actually involves the world of matchmaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: My day to day in the matchmaking world will get really into the, you know, what matchmaking looks like, but also what can happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So any last minute tips and tricks for people who, again, want to start writing and just do not know how to put pen to paper.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are so many options.
[SPEAKER_00]: One, if you can't just begin, that's the first step.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like just begin, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't edit something that doesn't exist and you can't sell something that does not exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just begin, put your thoughts to paper.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also like ghost writing options.
[SPEAKER_00]: So work with somebody collaborates.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's so much creativity that is born in collaboration.
[SPEAKER_00]: So find a way.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have a story to tell, and if it's kind of like burning a hole in the back of your head, like I really need to get this story out there, that is your indication that you might be a writer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that you've learned anything about yourself as a woman, as someone in relationships while you've been writing these books?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm alone with my own thoughts and pages for a really long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've just learned that you can get your way through anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: You really just understand how strong you are when you're putting your own experiences to paper and you're like, well, not bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: You did all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and also I think it's very evident that and again because it's so relatable that so many people pick the wrong type and it's a pattern that they do over and over.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think as a writer you've probably been able to see that in yourself and be able to move forward and try to stop that pattern going forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I've realized mostly is because when you meet someone that has also been through trauma and you're speaking about your own, you become enmeshed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So people mistake that like soul-made connection, you become the fixer, you become almost like one person, you become obsessed with the fact that you've both been through hard things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a real relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why it falls apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've learned that through myself, instead of approaching it as the fixer or, you know, somebody with this big story that's held just go in, just take a step back and approach us as who you are today and you'll be surprised what can happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great advice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do a little lightning round just three questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: What book are you obsessed with right now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, the secret, Donna's heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, dream actor to play Taylor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my goodness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, Cindy Sweeney, I mean, come on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who would the actor be to play Claire?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think about this all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who is that woman?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, I don't even remember her name.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's her place charades, what was she in?
[SPEAKER_00]: She was in, she's done a ton with like American horror story.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was nurse ratchet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hold on, let me look it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: She is the most incredible actress for like crazy things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, oh, I know she is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sarah Paulson.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I know what you mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, you know, well, drenched when we see her on screen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, that's a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your writing feel?
[SPEAKER_01]: Coffee, wine, chaos, coffee, always.
[SPEAKER_00]: A little bit of music and I pre-game by reading my favorite book.
[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever I'm like, or I should say, whatever I'm reading at the time, well, coffee, little pre-game with the book, and then I get into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you watch Netflix, do you watch documentaries or do you watch regular series?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mostly documentaries, mostly I love anything like murder, investigation, something dark.
[SPEAKER_01]: Favorite, I guess true crime story or following right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, I watched like this is kind of nerdy, but just like YouTube videos of random.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just random.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just can't remember Rubas, so I'm like this deep Natalie Holloway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, it's like, still crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a crazy story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all all start to good things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that ID network like true crime stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could play day line on, you know, replay all day long.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Taylor, it was such a pleasure getting to meet you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Best kept stranger is out now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell people where they can get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amazon, Barnes and Noble, any major retailer, but it's out August, twelve.
[SPEAKER_00]: So go get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also between the stitching, same places you can get it anywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Both amazing books, everybody should read it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If people want to reach out to you, do you read your DM?
[SPEAKER_01]: How can they find you?
[SPEAKER_00]: I read every single Instagram message that comes my way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and tell people they're listening what your Instagram is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the Taylor Higgins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Taylor, thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good luck with the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to have you on to talk about the third one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for listening to Ms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five-star rating and review.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can support the show by joining our Patreon at Patreon.com slash Ms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood with Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out email us at info, Ms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood podcast at gmail.com that's spelled MISS.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much and I'll see you next time.