Speed with Shereen Lani Younes

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Speaker 1: On the Doodcast, the questions asked if movies have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and Best start changing it with the bec del Cast pop quiz, Jamie, what You're a host on a podcast, but the podcast can't be under ninety minutes per episode? What do you do? I give away a lot of my life to the podcast. I use moments of my precious one human life podcasting. Alright, hot shot sounds good to me. Are you the Dennist Hopper in that situation? Yes, I'm I'm the I'm the villainy and you are Kiana Reeves? Are you the Dunnert? You're not the Dennis Hopper of the show. I don't think our show has a Dennis Hopper. I hope not. No, it's just two busses, yeah, bus number one, Bus number two, yea and yeah, and then sometimes a third bus pulls on up and we just cruise down the one oh five, baby, even though we're calling it the one thin it's the one oh five, which is for some reason not in use. Okay, there's there. We don't even have time to talk about all the like l A infrastructure stuff. I was like, kind of interested in watching this movie. But I guess that's another this isn't a regional podcast, but I was very interested in a lot. I was like, wow, that's what it looked like. Interesting. Welcome to the Beachtel Cast. Wait was at the end of the intro. Yeah, that was that was my brilliant intro. You're welcome. You're an iconic Dennis, Thank you so much. Dennis Hopper is having so much fun in this movie. Oh my gosh. He it's the role of a lifetime for him. He's like a Melina level villain. And that's like compliment, huge compliment, of course. So this is the Bechtel Cast. Today is our speed episode, which is exciting. Yeah oh yeah from from Okay, get ready because this podcast just got above fifty miles per hour and it's not the podcast will explode. I the first time I watched this movie, I was driving back. I was in the back seat. My aunt was driving from Maryland to Massachusetts and she was driving above fifty miles hour. So I felt really actively engaged with the movie. I was like, wow, now if we stopped to pe, you'll explode. Will explode, The super will explode. You know anyways? Incredible? Should I have been talking this whole time? Or you can if you want to? I was like, should I be quiet? So okay, well we will give you a proper introduction. You're returning guests. Do you have open privileges? I was like, I was like, it's been like a couple of minutes. Should I still be quiet? Like? Or am I supposed to be talking? What do other guests talk to? Now? We well, here's what we'll do. This is the backdol as. My name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus, And let's introduce our guests and then we'll tell you what the podcast is. So from from third bus in the room, our guest is a filmmaker. Half of the podcast ethnically ambiguous. It's Sharine Lonnie Units. It's me pulling up in my big bus. Wow, so happy to Busses used to look so cool. Yeah, buses used to look way cooler. They took so many hits like they were they were made of metal like it, there's nothing stopping them. They kind of looked kind of VW bussy. They looked like an old like, they're pretty cute. It looks like an old tour van. I was like, damn, they should have kept those things. They're so they're all big and ugly. Now. I was just so surprised how durable they were. They crashed into everything. Such a sturdy bus, very sturdy, very sturdy. Look, I'm so stuck to be talking about speed. It ultimately is capaganda. However, they're is public transit in movies. I feel like there's there hasn't been a bigger moment for public transit in and as a public transit user and lover, I was like, wow, we never see the bus, never underrepresented in cinema. I agree. I mean yeah, I was really happy to rewatch this. I'm glad that we went with this Kanu movie because I just love him and I will watch anything with him, even if it's copaganda. It's which which in the nineties it really was. He's in quite a few coppaganda films because he was. He was hired for this movie off of the strength of where the perceived strength whatever of Point Break, where he was also in the l apt cop after cop Okay, so real quick. The show we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel Tests simply as a jumping off point. The Bechdel Test, of course, is a medium met created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. Our variation on the test is two people of any marginalized gender I have to have names, have to speak to each other, and that conversation has to be about something other than a man. Ideally it's a meaningful, narratively relevant conversation. But if it's a like two line exchange, you know, we will allow it. I guess depends on the situation. I understand why you're being so specifically because I encounter that say, I was like, okay, there, so I just I think it. I think it does pass between Annie and a woman we later learn as Helen. She said her name did later test, you know, right before moments before Helen's death, where she's like Helen No. I was like, wow, Wow, they did it. And I would argue that that exchange is narratively relevant because we need to find out that Helen is a very anxious person on the road, which is partially why she ultimately meets her demise and that's relevant enough for me. Did we skip ahead? Should we have saved that that reveal? I see, I don't mind if we blow our load earlier in the show. Yeah, okay, yeah, our show is not really despite the name which we came up with five years ago. Our show is not about the beckd Old test, which which this movie does pass, which does pass exactly once, about road anxiety exactly what. I don't think Sandra Bullock talks to another woman the entire movie. I don't believe so well. And I have a huge issue with that too, because there's so many women on that bus, I mostly women of color as well, and it's like it was, yeah, only the men talked, only the men passengers. There were more names other than Helen right, there were like five male passengers that had full arcs like and then the women in the background are like, I like that all you get not fair? Yes? Okay, So, Sharne, what is your relationship history experience with this movie? I just remember watching it as a kid with my parents, and it's been at least two decades since I've seen it since then, and so I was really happy to rewatch it. I didn't remember a lot, so I was still pretty like engaged with the plot because I was like, I knew there was I knew the like the images, right, I just like I didn't know how it ended. I forgot until I saw it, you know, like I remembered like, oh, they're there, but yeah, I really I was a Kianu fan very young, and then I am still a Kianu fan. And I really liked watching Kanu give orders when I was a kid. That's all I remember. He Kianu is incredible. God, he's incredible. He's an incredible person. And he's like Caitlin and I were text me about this earlier. He's like, he's so hot in this movie. It's so he was twenty nine. Isn't that wild? Oh my god? There there? I mean, okay, is the love story shoe who burned in? Yes? Do I want these characters to fuck? Yes? So it's complicated. Kanu Reeves, according to director Jan de bon John, I'm not sure how to say his name. Um Keanu Reeves was cast in the movie Speed because he is quote vulnerable on the screen. He's not threatening to men because he's not that bulky, and he looks great to women, which is obviously an extremely like gender and heteronormative way to describe somebody. But he's right, he's extremely vulnerable and sweet and sensitive and hot beautiful. I was reading about the casting process and he was like the sixth choice for this part. Who are the top choices? So and all of these would be lesser movies except one or two that I would be interested in seeing versions of Kanu ultimately wins, but they wanted Steven Baldwin. That would have been terrible. God. Steven Baldwin said no, too much like die Hard, which isn't the worst point, but I prefer this movie to die Hard because it's on the bus and it's with Kany Reeves. Next they asked, are they considered Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks. No, No, Wesley Snipes. I think that could have been interesting. I would be a fan of that, and Woody Harrelson, which also would have been interesting. It would have been different. It would have been a little goofier or something. I don't know what has Yeah, yeah, I would have been joke here. I think like Wesley Snipes or Woody Harrelson's speed would have been good. But the Tom's and Steven Baldwin, I'm like, no, put it in the trash. Not interesting. I can't imagine watching two hours of them do anything. But it's so interesting that he wasn't the first choice. It is because I feel like his biggest some of his biggest movies that like catapulted him, he was not the first choice. Like he wasn't the first choice in this or in the Matrix. It was I just think that's wild, but like Wild Wild West, yeah, the movie Will Smith did instead of the Matrix. It's like wild that he's like not the first pick, but then he ends up like just going above and beyond it, being like, well, this is what I can do. And then then were like, oh, we see you, Kian. You know what I mean. Yeah, they realized, Wow, we should have gone to you first. I can't believe we didn't. Our mistake, Jamie, what's your relationship with Speed? I have a fun history with this movie. I saw this movie for the first time in college. I did this is all very goofy, but I did a semester abroad brag. But we were allowed to take little weekend trips with just our like friends, and so my friend, my dear friend Kyle, and I shout out, I'll decided we were going to go to Milan, Italy, even though we had no money, and we're like, we'll just figure it out when we get to Milan, which is so dangerous, and so we ended up staying at this hostel that was very unsafe. There were all of these rules. They're like, you can't leave the hostile after seven pm or we'll lock you out. It was I don't think it was actually a hostile. I don't know what it was. We were very scared. We were very scared and very like whatever, Like nineteen had no idea what we were doing. I like whatever. It was a long time ago. But they did have a really good WiFi signal for whatever reason. And we were so nervous, and we didn't have any food because it was after seven pm, and we're just like, oh, we can't leave. We won't be able to get back. So we were like hungry and tired and confused and didn't speak Italian. And I was just like, can we just like watch a movie or something. I'm so nervous, And Kyle was like, you know what, movie always really calms me down. And then he turned on Speed and we watched it together and it's such and I loved it, and it was such a nice memory and I had it. I only thought that one time, and then I returned to that memory and this really fun movie. It's a fun movie. It's so fun it makes me want to text Kyle. I'm gonna text Kyle, text Kyle. But yeah, that's my that's my history with Speed. What's HER's, Caitlin. This was a movie that my family had on VHS in the nineties when I was growing up. It wasn't in my heavy rotation the same way that like Back to the Future or Jurassic Park was, but it was occasionally in the rotation. So I saw it a few times as a kid, but not since then. So there, I shream like you. I had like a twenty year gap or so between screenings of this movie, and I was reminded that it is an extremely fun and watchable piece of coppaganda. It is this movie is I forgot, very much, forgot to the extent that this movie is an L A p D specific copaganda piece. I also forget that they also just made them look way cooler than they did. They do, like, their outfits are cooler there, I don't know, they're hot they're just they're hot, they're they're KIANU reeves, they're smart and capable. They're always yelling about how they have sex and like none of this is true to let like, let's all be could all three of us very firmly. I think we can all agree that the l a p D a cab but like extra for them, it's a it's a special kind of hatred that we saved for the l a p D. And this is very effective copaganda for them, And I think, I mean, we'll talk about this later in the episode, but the like exact moment that this movie came out was a time where the l a p D needed some image rehabilitation, let's say, because this movie was written and produced the year after Rodney King and oh my god, so it's that's a good point. I did not put that together. And it was released the week before the O. J. Simpson Highway Chase. So I think that when this movie came out, I was seeing that a lot of people were like, how did the movie Speed know that we were going to be really interested in highway chases? Because it happened literally the week after Speed came out. What if that inspired O. J. Simpson. What like, like I saw this amazing movie. God, what if speed was the catalyst for that. I mean, movies are influential, so it could be it could be a subconscious choice to you know, he wouldn't even really realize. I think he did. I think, I mean r I pinicle. But it's just yeah, it's so the the exact moment that this came out was such a I don't know, it was just a very bizarre. But also I would guess fairly strategic timing for the l PEG to have a really popular piece of copaganda come out around because this movie was shot in so it would have been like less than a year after RANDI King. That is very intentional for sure. I mean that just goes to show it's like there's no really accidents with what I not usually with like what gets picked up as far as like it's political or not. I think what movies get picked up by means So that's unsettling. Yeah, sure, and yet it's a rob It's God damn it. What I think we can replace, Like I think we can make a universe or like a group of people that aren't cops but are badasses. I can't figure out who they are. But it totally would have worked. It totally would have worked if like Keanu was just like Mr. I don't know, like whatever in that nineties action movie way of like I'm Mr. Action and like he didn't. I don't know. I don't think it was necessary, But the way the movie is written, it's very like and all the cops worked together in cups are amazing heroes and they're like hitting that point over and over and they're so smart and they figure out puzzles. But I'm also thinking back to so many action movies of this decade of decades before and after it that have protagonists who are cops. Like that is so many action movies. So that's what I'm saying. It's like a lot of movies make they need like a group of good guys, you know, a group of heroes you could root for. And this was all before obviously Marvel and like comic book movies. So I feel like people just wanted a good group of guys to root for, and they were happy to be cops. That's why I think there has to be a different group, Like it doesn't happen to know who it should be, who it should be a group of vigilante podcasters. Oh yeah, yeah, but Robert might be listening. Do let's say it? Oh no, oh no, yeah, please don't at least Robert. I'm talking specifically about the three of us. We should be action heroes, We should be the ki of our generation. Yes, there are so many moments in this movie where I'm like, well, that's where I would have jumped out a window, Like, that's where I would have just leapt out the bus. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's we're already kind of having this conversation in anyways. I mean that, Yeah, the the amount of copaganda is so wild, and it sent me back into the amount of times that coppaganda sneaks into genres you wouldn't even expect, because in the action genre at least, it's a pretty expected trope basically where I think that really people's only criticism of this movie at the time was that it was like, oh, I'm seeing the die Hard similarities here, which you definitely do. But I was going back and reading any pieces on like how I mean, Katelie, We've talked about this in the past episode, how like the movie Bridesmaids includes elements of coppaganda with like and just like the extent that like the good like sweet goofy cop is built into I mean specifically, American storytelling is so disturbing, I don't very disturbing. And the way that Kanu's character behaves in this movie, it sometimes feels like a fantasy where it's like, oh an l a p D officer d escalating a situation. Um Like it's interesting because so the director first time directing, but he was a cinematographer of die Hard. I think that's also why there are so many visual similarities. That's why he got brought onto the project. Yeah, that they're like, you're you're an experienced coppaganda filmmaker. Come on, and Keanu Reeves was an experienced coppaganda actor. They're like, Okay, we'll just shave your head this time, and you're you're a new man. Although some of the Kianu line reads in this movie are so iconically confusing, it was Ken's. It was Ken. Yeah, he was like when he said that there is a line that is like very clear in writing copaganda because someone says, are they gonna help us? And then the reply is sure they are there the police. Yes, it was so like, it was so like I don't know, and I was getting like galaxy brainy at the time, where I was like, are they trying to say something? And I'm just not like because moments like that that was like the character who says that is like the out of town er, he like self identifies as a yokel, And I was like, Oh, is this supposed to be like a naive view of the police, But that's definitely not with the movie. Thinks Nope, They're they're like even this man, this man from Minnesota knows that cops are the greatest people to ever be born. Like I don't know if it all it all was very just so frustrating, And then I thought again that I was like, oh, maybe there's some commentary being made when when you find out when it's revealed that Dennis Hopper is a former cop, and I'm like, you will get into something, but it kind of it just goes nowhere. They're just like he was he was he was a cop, which is like, I mean, it's still a piece of copaganda at that point in the movie, no matter what. But I was like, Oh, maybe they're going to try to comment on something. But then they're just but then that just as kind of they're like, he's a cop. Nope, is that interesting. Yeah, they're just sort of like they're like, well, you know, one bad apple, but the rest of them are great. Yeah. It totally ends up buying into that entire bad apple narrative. I mean, and then before this, like like the Golden State Killer and then like a couple of cops did become like these villains in real life, right, So it's it's interesting, they're just like, we're just saying that. It's like there's one bad apple, right, and the rest are good apples versus the opposite where it's like very much true. But there are a few moments in this movie where I think it was like I just kept looking for something because I enjoy watching the movie where I'm like, oh, maybe they're trying to say something and it was really subtle. But um, ultimately that is not true. That's not true. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and recap the movie. And we are back and here comes the recap of speed Beep from Beep Beep, Why the heck is this bus going so fast? Okay, so the movie opens on a long chunk where we are not on a bus. By the way, I forgot that there's like two different action movies at the beginning and end of this movie. Yeah, I totally forgot about that, no recollection at all. I just remember it was Cans and the Bizarrow. You remember the Cans line. Oh, the Cans is unforgettable. Kyle and I had a ball with the Cans line. And then I remember to my credit all the way back and like whatever year, I was being like, they're making out in a train car and people are just taking pictures, Like that's what I was thinking, Like your friend, just a friend died. And then also the way that was. But like when Sandra Bullock is like flirting, but also her friend the bus driver is like bleeding to death behind her, I'm like, yes, there's some total dissance. Love is more important, you know what I mean. Love Trump's everything, even when you're even when your friend is actively dying. I totally forgot about the Cans So just imagine me being like, what the fuck it was? Kens it was? But though the two of the fact that there are two action movies on either side, I mean, it's a great action film for that reason, Like I had they just combined so many different elements of action movies. It's just I don't know. Well. Also, the original script was just having the whole movie be on a bus, but then the studio was like, audiences are going to get bored if we're just on a bus the whole time, so let's do a long sequence before and a long sequence after the bus. Then that's when they green lit it. So originally it was just a bus. I do kind of appreciate that they I mean, also, this movie is like one of those nineties movies that you watch and you're like, this looks so expensive, Oh my good. So many explosions, so many cars getting damaged, airplane exploded. I'm glad that they milked. I mean, that shot was five hundred hours long. But I'm like, I would I guess if I were the director of this movie, I would milk that shot to what a nightmare. I did appreciate the like the added intro in the backstory, because it did make Jeff daniels demise a little bit more like sad, you know, like their backstory of being like good friends and the weird banter they have. Everything's a joke. But yeah, the added intro isn't bad to me or the ending. I liked it. I liked it all. I just forgot that there was I first ever and I was like, oh, at the beginning, Kiana gets then a bus. I forgot he was a cop. I forgot there was a setup. I forgot there was a second climax of the movie. I forgot she got damseled all this stuff. Yeah for sure. Okay, So we do open on Dennis Hopper putting a bomb on an elevator in an office building. He then holds a bunch of people hostage on the elevator and demands a three million dollar ransom from the l A p D. Several officers show up. Among them is Jack Travin played by Kiana Reeves, who he doesn't really play by the rules, but he feels so kind of nice. But like we're introduced to him like chewing gum for the first like fifteen minutes. He's so cool, he's so laid back, so chill, just chewing gum. I just really liked that addition. I feel like they did like take the die hard character and they like Kiana Reeves defied him. They just made him like more fun to be around right for sure. His partner is Harry Temple played by Jeff Daniels and Daniel The name Harry Temple is funny um last name was Temple until he just said it. I didn't catch them. Yeah, okay, So they managed to save the hostages and find Dennis Hopper, but then Dennis Hopper blows himself up. But it turns out that Dennis Hopper is not dead. I still don't fully understand that. I don't understand how they said he was dead, Like they didn't find anything. He just called He's like, guess what, I'm alive, and I was like, oh, I was thinking, like in my mind, I was like, okay, it has to be believable. So maybe he left a tooth there or something like, maybe he like left a body part, but no, he didn't do that. It's really confusing. Hopper is like low key a magician, like he has magical elements to his character, where like his motive seems to be changing a lot of time times. I feel like he's almost like the Joker of Speed, where he's you're You're like, he just wants chaos. It seems like I don't know what he wants and we know his origin story. We know the origin story. It's revealed to us later, so which I wish that they used that origin story more effectively in story. I feel like they could have at least tried to say something with his origin story, because they do provide it, but then it's like then it goes nowhere. Anyways, Dennis Hopper is fun to watch. We talked about this on our episode on the Rock, where the Ed Harris character is like ex military I think the Marines or something like his wife and his wife and he didn't receive the you know, support, whether financial or whatever, that he was expecting after having served in the military, and it was like not that that movie was actively making commentary on like wow, we need like better social programs and support systems for the veterans and stuff like that, but that is like that was his motivation in the movie, and I feel like there's like they're kind of trying to do that or like there was a seed of that and speed, but it doesn't go anywhere. Saying something that if Michael Bay was making stronger commenting, that's interesting. I mean, but what we know they get compensated extremely fairly, like they make more than teachers. So I'm a little confused, like why they're still bitter about it, you know what I mean, Like these like people are writing these characters kind of thing like yeah, I don't know. Yeah, And that's like referenced repeatedly to like that the police officers feel that they're getting a raw deal because they're doing stunts every day, and it's like, well, yeah, most cops are not doing stunts every day. They're just antagonizing people. Maybe we're watching these and people are like, oh, cops need more funding, like they should make more. So the general public is like, let's give cops more money that I feel sorry for them. Well, that was a huge plot issue that I was having, where whatever, we're not rooting for Dennis Hopper obviously, but he's asking for I mean, comparatively to a police station budget, he's asking for a very low amount. He's asking for three point seven million dollars. The l a p D and their last round of funding received over one billion dollars. They have three point seven millions. So the fact that people's lives are and I feel like the tension there is like, well, we don't want to give him what he wants. It's like, well, there's twenty lives of working class people in the balance. You might want to just give this guy what he wants and find him later, you know. Like so the fact that the whole plot of this movie is the l a p D counting their pennies, like, oh, we don't have enough a money is like bullshit, they have a billion dollars. Oh God, I hate the l a p D so much. It's like creeping in your mind. They're trying to influence you subconsciously, and it works because yeah, I totally. And and the fact that like and they're also implying this entire movie that the average cop is Jack Traven Draven Traven. I kept calling him Jack Tavern, which I think is a way better name, especially if his partner's name is Harry Temple. You got a Temple, you got a Tavern? Big miss on the last name Travin, Yeah, Travin was was absolutely miss But they're also like in that the beginning that beginning sequence with Jeff Daniels and Keanu, like Keanus like, remind me why I do this job? Agin He's like, oh for a pinsion in through two years and like cops aren't doing this this doesn't happen. Were they like a special unit, Like were they swat or like I feel like they were like bomb squad or something. But still cops. Okay. So it turns out that Dennis Hopper is not dead. He plants a bomb on a bus in Santa Monica, right where Jack tavern. It's travern. Wait. Before before that happens, Dennis Hopper says, don't funk with daddy, don't work with daddy. I have to mention that. I just have to He's daddy, He's daddy, Daddy. I love when people say daddy in movies. So anyway, that's all I wanted to interject, don't funk with daddy. Oh God, okay. So Jack just happens to be right where this bus is, and then Dennis Hopper calls Jack on a pay phone and tells him that he still wants his money and that he has planted another bomb on a different bus, and once that bus goes fifty miles an hour, it's going to arm the bomb. And after that, if the bus goes below fifty miles an hour, the bomb will detonate. The most amazing concept for a movie of all time. I hate that it's cops, because that's such a good idea. We'll talk about later where that idea is stolen from. Oh okay, not so creative, but I thought it was. It was stolen from like it was like, I mean it was. It wasn't like stolen. It was like a cool like line of influence. But yeah, it's such an amazing concept. Yeah, okay, So the police are not allowed to take any passengers off the bus or Dennis Hopper will blow it up, and they have three hours to get Dennis Hopper his money, which is now three point seven million dollars. I guess he's charging interest for pissing him off. Yeah, exactly. I would have doubled it. I was like if I was Dennis Hopper, which would be interesting. I was like the fact that he only went up seven hundred thousand dollars was like I was literal. I was like I wrote down, like, seems reasonable given the whole elevator chaft thing. Yeah right, And it also makes three point seven million. It's such an arbitrary number, Like why wouldn't he go up to like four million? I would have been like ten million dollars like Dr Evil style. There's a moment where we find out that Jack eats muffins, and I think that just helps us think he's like a nice guy or something. I don't know, I really picked up on that, Like why at that moment, Yeah, this cop doesn't eat donuts, he eats muffins. He's not like the other cops. He's he choose gum and he eats muffins. Ever seen a cop like this before. I guess the cops must be good. He knows the bus driver's name, you know what I mean, good terms on the like the one that in the beginning, Oh the yeah who then immediately die? Oh my god, the one they set up to die? That was I mean. But again I was like, I was like, that was effective storytelling. But what bummer? Yes, So then we cut to the bus with the bomb on it. We see Annie. That's Sandra Bullock. She gets on the bus. Sam the bus driver and the other passengers have no reason to suspect anything is wrong. They have no idea that the bomb is on this bus. They're just loving life on l A metro been there, that's right. They're going from downtown to Venice, which is a long trip. Okay, Keanu rushes to find the bus. He eventually catches up with it, he manages to get on it. He communicates to everyone with the situation is and by that point the bus has gone over fifty miles, so now they have to make sure they never go back below fifty. One of the passengers has a gun and is freaking out because he So this is like very problematic in a lot of ways. I think that he thinks he's being arrested for something else that he's done. He misreads the situation and panics. That was how I was reading that too. Yeah, and that's very whatever. That's a very charged writing choice that we'll talk about. But I also think maybe it was the beginning of being like this is what people do when they're afraid. They like people are irrational situations. Maybe I'm like over analyzing it, but like that's not Now looking back on it, I'm thinking that I totally agree. It's like there's like this was kind of a throw I note, but it was like this movie is an interesting examination of what your average person would do if they were faced with the plot of speed like a lot of different but yeah, like he he's I guess the first bus passenger to the panic before everyone even knows what's going on, right, so he pulls out a gun. The gun ends up going off and hits Sam the driver. Um so then Annie is right there. She takes the wheel. Things are kind of back under control for a moment. Jack finds the bomb but realizes he can't dismantle it. Annie meanwhile is driving the bus speeding through the city. It's it's pretty chaotic. She has to blow through any obstructions, road blockagees, other cars, a baby carriage full of cass. It was what a flimsy, confusing set up because it's like, yeah, it makes no sense. I mean, I feel like the ultimate implication was that one woman was going to go redeem the cans for money, which implies that she doesn't have a lot of money at very least. But but I don't know that. It's just such a bizarro movie set up. I think that Sandra Bullock genuinely does an awesome job in this movie where she's like, she does a good job of being like did I just kill somebody? And then Kiana was like no, no, and she's like okay, and then she keeps driving like iconic duo Sandra Bullock who's also in another compaganda movie, I think a couple of years before this Demolition Man. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I forgot that she had compaganda prior experience. I mean, she goes on to play a lot of cops, you know, congeniality, Miss Congeniality, that is compaganda as well. Yeah, and the heat and the heat, Oh my gosh. I guess having a woman driving and like controlling the bus the whole time is kind of badass. I thought that that was like, I thought that we'll talk about that. Yeah, there's some I didn't hate that choice. But then the more I learned about the production and writing process of the movie, then where I was like, it could have been better, but whatever, I don't I don't hold Sandra Bullock personally accountable. I think she did a great job, right right, right, Okay, So then they get onto a freeway that is not in use and Jack and Annie flirt while Sam is dying. There was a point in the movie where I'm like, did Sam die? And we didn't even find out because I would have been really but but I don't know. I mean, I guess, like we're talking loose, but I'm like if I were writing this movie, I would have no idea when to shift the focus to each character, like, because for a long swath of the movie, I'm like, what happened to Sam? He seemed like he was pretty mortally wounded, and then they just like whenever that whenever the writer is like, oh, Okay, now we're going to bring him back. You know, I would have liked to see this movie in theaters. It sounds like it would have been a fun theater experience. So then the l a p. D Show up alongside the bus and they're figuring out how to get the passengers off, but the news helicopters that are following the bus are like broadcasting what's happening, and Dennis Hopper is watching the news so he knows everything that they're doing. Um, So then Jack negotiates with Dennis Hopper to let Sam the driver off the bus. But then a woman named Helen also tries to get off the bus, and the bomber activates a small bomb that kills her. He has all these mini bombs around just in case the plot of the movie Speed happens and he needs it. He's got a bomb for every occasion and still it has all these little like Tamagotchi style style bombs, just in random locations in case something happens. Right, yes, then up ahead there's a large gap in the freeway, but they managed to jump over it thanks to some good driving. That was like one of the three things I remembered about this movie was that they jump a highway so good they would have been such gonners. This movie, like many action movies, I'm not saying anything new here, but the defying of gravity and other laws of physics is staggering. I kind of like that this movie really goes for it though, where it's like there's just like so many points in this movie where not only would they have died, but they would have died like by a wide margin. But but the movie is like, no, fifty ft it is what it is. Yeah, they're trying to make you convinced like they're not going to make it, Like at the edge of your seat watching they're like, they can't make that jump. You know it works, they do. I do wish I could have seen this moviea theaters for the first time. Like it's uh, there's so many moments where you're like, oh, if you're in a theater, you would have been like like the baby moment, the highway jump moment. Yeah, why is it? Cop agandem man? So they eventually get to the airport because that is restricted airspace where the helicopters can't go, and then Jack directs Annie to drive around the tarmac for a while. He tries to dismantle the bomb but is unsuccessful. Uh, they are leaking gas now um. And then meanwhile, Harry Temple figures out who the bomber is, so they go to his house, but he has rigged it to explode and Harry dies in the explosion. So back at L a X, the cops unload the passengers off the bus to safety, which happens after they figure out that, like, there's also a camera on the bus that the bomber is watching, so they have to create this like fake loop so that he doesn't notice that they're unloading. The passengers love that plot point right. Jack and Annie are the last to get off the bus, which is the first climax of the movie. The empty bus runs into a plane on the tarmac that I guess was empty, and there's a huge explosion, and then Jack and Annie share a horny moment together. I was surprised that that Sandra Bullocks first question wasn't were there people on that plane? Like yeah, because I watched them twice, and I'm like, am I missing something? Like did they estacide that they had evacuated the that they had evacuated L A X. I'm sure that that's what happened, or would have had to have happened. So it was a courier plane, so they wouldn't have passengers, but there would still you would think, be like personnel. There was a worker who was like shit, like yeah, he runs away. The first time that Kanu and Sandra tumbled together, yes, there's there are two tumbles and there are two climaxes, and we just saw the first of both. I supposed to say when they tumbled, I thought that I was like, well, it's not ideal, but it's a charismatic exchange, and Okay, I guess I'll accept this ending a romantic thing like that would happen in a romcom or something. But also I thought it was funny. But the only person that ever got hurt with Sandra Bullock, like Kanu never had a scratch on right strange, I was like having trouble remembering exactly what, like the specifics of the movie. So there's that moment where Kanu is trying to disarm the bomb on the bus and then his little skateboard thing comes out from under him, and I thought his ass, like his ass would have been bleeding scraped off. He would have been bleeding out of his butt cheeks death. And I wondered if that was going to be like I thought. I thought, at least you were going to get a shot to his pants to be like, wow, my pants are gone, but my my cheeks are great or whatever, like I don't know what would have happened, like missed opportunity for a cheesy joke. His ass was dragging on cement at like sixty miles, like his ass would have been damn mint for several minutes for a while, he was still without a scratch. And Sandra Bullock was cut up like she was because she's a delicate lady and Jack is a tough man. But I am glad that Sandy Sandy drives the bus till the fucking finish. Like that's kind of feminism that it's I mean that feminism right there, Maybe spice girls feminism Okay, So the bus explodes, but the bomber doesn't know it exploded, and he is still demanding his money. So they're basically setting up this sting operation to catch him and capture him at the drop off Lokay San. But then Dennis Hopper figures out what's going on, like that video loop was made, you know, he's one step ahead of them. He gets the money and he takes Annie, who for some reason was hanging out at this handoff location. We'll talk about that, but he takes her hostage and brings her onto the l A Metro. So Jack chases after them her. She's got a bomb strap to her. Now she's that's feminism. I totally forgot about this and it I was so frustrated because I was like, okay, you know what. It wasn't perfect, but Sandra Bullock's character was like critical and making the entire plot happen. Okay, there's much worse movies from this era. And then they I totally forgot that she's completely damseled at the end. I was so frustrated. Yes, and it sucks because you could still have that train sequence without damseling her. Yeah, but she is completely in capacitated because she's a Bomba's chap to her and then she's handcuffed to a like pull on the metro, so she's completely immobile. She can't do anything, but just like wait for Jack to you know, find the metro fight Dennis Hopper. They're fighting on the roof. Dennis Hopper gets decapitated. That was incredible though, Like and I I really I must have like rewound that shot like five hundred It's very good. Loved it. I love they It was really well done where you see it coming and then you they I don't know why I'm about to be like, why don't we get a satisfying, like campy decapitation shot, But when you get it with Dennis Hopper, it's so satisfying. I'm so glad you got to see his head gets it falls off. Several jokes are made at the expense of his decapitation. It's beautiful. It took me. Maybe I'm the one brain cell person here, but it took me. It took me a few times. When Kanu kept saying like when he didn't keep saying, I kept rewinding it. Uh he said, he said, like, well, I'm taller than you and I was like, what is he talking about? I was like, oh, I don't understand what that means. Dennis Hopper lost his head, so now Keanu is taller. I think he was implying they were once the same height, but now Dennis doesn't have a head, so ki him. I did not understand that at all. I have all these notes that were like, his comeback is unrelated to the plot. It is nonsensical. Yeah, there are there are a lot of quips, but I don't think that one's the best. I don't like that one. It's possibly the worst. You know. I think it's the word. Kiana's delivery doesn't help either, because it doesn't emphasize a single word. And so you're just like, what is he talking about? Does that mean now I'm taller than you? Or no? He's like, well I'm taller than you. Yeah, there's no like now, just like I guess I thought he was always taller than I. I was just like, right, I was like, I thought Dennis Hopper was like always, But I guess that. I guess that maybe that line was written before anyone was cast, maybe and they didn't know. I also feel Dennis Hopper was four inches shorter than him to begin with. I think so I feel like Dennis Hopper is probably like five ten and Kiana Reeves is like six three. So like, I mean, I'm getting this is a pure guest, but I feel like I could be right about this. He does have six three energy. He does have six three energy. I've seen him in real life. He's very tall. How where did you see him in real life? We've both had personal interactions with Keiana Reeves, Jamie and I have Let's repeat them, let's repeat them, Let's I love them. You go first, Caitlin, Okay, there was a I don't know if it was like special features for something or just like some kind of or if it was like a document to read, but it was some kind of. It was an interview with the two leads of Bill and Ted, Kiana Reeves and that other guy whose name I always forget, Alex Winters. Alex Winters. Yes, So whoever was making whoever was like producing this like video interview needed a place to shoot and I was the program director of Nerd Melt at the time, this comedy venue in l A. And they asked if they could shoot there and I was like absolutely yes, without a moment's hesitation, and so Kiana Reeves and Alex Winters show up, they get interviewed. I have a picture of Kiana Reeves on my phone. He drove up to the interview on his motorcycle. Oh my god, it was the coolest moment of my life, Jamie. What's your story? KIANU Reeves? So, when I first moved to l A, I got a job working at book Soup in West Hollywood, which I didn't realize at the time was the books store to the Stars. So we had a lot of because it's like on the Sunset Strip and so it was like to this day, I still have not had as many celebrity encounters a cumulatively as I did in my first like six months living there, because it was it was a very cool place to work. I liked it a lot. But Kiana Reeves was one of our regulars and like he reads books first of all, he reads books, and he and I was like briefed because I worked in the back most of the time at the back counter, and they were like okay. So Kiana Reeves comes every Wednesday to buy a new like he buy. He would buy one fiction book and one book of Sudoku puzzles and he would do sudoku on set. I guess he didn't tell that to me, but like he he would come on his motorcycle every Wednesday evening, so if you're doing the closing shift, you knew that he was going to come. And he would always call in advance and he'd be like, Hi, this is Mr Reeves, Um are my Are my books ready? And I would be like, yes, they're ready, and then he would like come and he would give him his like his new fiction book and his new Sudoku book, and then he would take off. It was so nice. There were so many celebrities that were very, very not nice at that store, and Kiana Reeves was like a standout icon. Kiana Reeves, Emma Roberts, Amy Adams, the three nicest in Miranda July all very nice, loves, Ellen de generous and Elton John nice. That doesn't surprise me. They made us evacuate the stores so they could show. Of course Ellen is like the worst person. Elton John. I'll give Elton John a pass because I even though he did make us evacuate the store, I'm obsessed with him, so I don't care like I was like, you know what, you deserve it, you deserve the story. Yeah. He and Ellen made us empty out the store for him to come in, and Ring a Star came once. He was nice. Oh I wouldn't know what he looked like, to be honest, I know, he just I was like, this could be any old British man, but he was very nice. Yeah. Wow, that Kiana experience is so beautiful. It's just so beautiful and all it's regular and and he reads most importantly, he reads and sudoku. He's a puzzle boy. He's a puzzle boy. I was a puzzle boy too. I tweeted about that once and I got so many responses from people who had had random encounters with Kiana and they were all, I just want to really quickly list my top two because I forget if I've said this on the show before, but they both made me very happy. The first one someone who had worked at an l A movie theater and Kiana Reeves came in in the late two thousand's with like I believe the anecdote included he was wearing his motorcycle helmet when he walked in, and he like ordered a bunch of food and got one ticket for Vicky Christina Barcelona. He saw it alone. That's a Woody Ellen movie. But I want to move on. The second one is that there was once in like I think the late nineties early two thousand's a struggling actress's car broke down and she didn't know what to do. She's broken down on the side of an l A like a busy l A street and who comes along But Keanu reeves and he knows how to help her, and he like says, get out of the car, don't worry, get yourself a coffee, whatever, I'll help. He knows how to fix stuff. He fixes it. And then the best part of the story at the end is and who was that actress bought Octavia Spencer? It was pre famous Octavia Spencer. Oh my god. Wild is that he's an angel from heaven? That is an angel. He's not real, he can't be real's perfect. He's a perfect person. Also, that's an amazing story. That is so amazing because he didn't know that was going to be a famous person. She just did it for anybody. He's just got a good heart. Yeah, can you imagine like being on the road and someone's needs help and the first thing, the first thought you have is like I'm going to help them, and then you do it. I mean I feel like how I don't know how different a person anyone could be if they knew how to fix cars. I guess if I knew how to fix cars, I would be like, I'll fix any car just to show what I can do. But I don't know. But also like if you see a broken down car, even if you know how to fix cars, the probability that you can you can fix any car with any problem, like, that's PROFI you have a lot of that's a lot of skills to a lot of skills. Yeah, well, thank you for sharing, Thank you for sharing. So that was a lot of Kian. But yeah, he's I mean we've said it multiple times in the show. He's an amazing person. Yes, absolutely. Okay, so just a little bit of the recap left, Um, Dennis Hopper has been to appitated then, But but the train that they're on won't stop and there's a gap in the tracks ahead. The tracks are not finished. There's always a gap, and it seems like he got a speed up. I mean, alas always under construction. They got that right, it's true. That is true, and it seems like Annie might die because he can't get her loose from like being handcuffed to the poll. But he's like, wait a minute, I'm going to speed up, and somehow that makes it so the train goes upward onto street level and crashes up from underground onto the street, and so they're safe. As a red Line user, I could not make heads or tails of this, but also this so maybe I don't know who knows, but they are safely make it onto the street, and then Jack and Annie make out on the street, and then the credits aren't rolling. So that is the story. Let's take another quick break and then we will come back to discuss, and we're back. So we have I think we kind of had the copy Ganda discussion at the beginning of this movie um or episode, but I wanted to touch on really quickly just um some production history notes on this movie. Some of it is just like interesting and then others are more relevant to our discussions. So the I mean top to bottom. This movie is a male production directed by Jean Dabant, who is a Dutch filmmaker who Sharne, as you pointed out, started as a cinematographer, became a director, went on to direct another ROMP that I haven't watched in five hundred years, Twisters. That's another big movie. Was written by Graham Yost, who is uh nepotism, but also is a very accomplished writer. Uh he's Canadian nepotism. Imagine it. He did, he did. Uh. This was his first like major production, but he went on to make I'm pretty sure several beloved coppaganda series such as Justified, which I haven't seen, so correct me if that's not capaganda. I'm pretty sure it is, and The Americans, which is it's complicated, several layers of copaganda, but there are elements of it. There's definitely elements of like serving your country nationalism to a lot of his work. But that said, I've seen the first three seasons of the Americans and I enjoyed it. But anyways, this was his script. He started writing the script when he heard about a movie called Runaway Train by John That started John that song that wait, I wonder if it is because there is an original song for Speed by Billy Idol that's the ending credits song. Really I didn't want lyrics are really amazing. It's speed give me what I need, Blast me to Heaven just for loving you. Okay, that's that's very fun up that I agree. Original Billy Idol song, Yeah it um. I of course was referring to the Soul Asylum song Runaway Train, with such lyrics as runaway Train never going back, wrong way on a long way track that song. I was thinking of the Ozzy Osbourne song and I had the wrong title in my mind. So I have conversation, yes, and he went back to Runaway Train, the movie. So Graham Yost heard from his nepotism daddy about this movie called Runaway Train that started John Voight that has a similar ish premise. The premise of Runaway Train is from You're not going to see this coming Akira Kurosawa. So Speed owes its success to a concept by Akira Kurosawa. So maybe that's fine, it's good. I don't know, but never think you would say that. I would never think that's where that was going, right, So it's like this kind of it's an interesting way that this movie was conceived, Like part of it has to do with the screenwriter's father misremembering the plot to Runaway train and in the process of misremembering it kind of conceiving of a of speed. Um. So that anyways, I thought that that that the way that this movie was conceived of was pretty interesting and was clearly produced because die Hard had been such a success, and so there were there's a whole uh scholarly journal Wikipedia section on the various changes that went on during this movie. The one that I thought was particularly worth mentioning is that Joss Whedon was brought on to write this movie. And we've discussed the paradox of Josh Weeden and male writers who present themselves as feminists and later you learned that they were actually deeply abusive towards women. We've we've had this discussion. It's the absolute worst. We're not vouching for him in any way here. I think that we've had I mean, I guess our deepest discussion was on the Matreon for the Cabin in the Woods episode, but we've had this discussion um in the Avengers episode as well. All that to say, Josh Weeden, I guess, is responsible for the majority of the dialogue in this movie. Is what the credited screenwriter Graham Yost said is that Josh Weeden was brought in a couple of weeks before production, and he basically rewrote the dialogue to fit the actors who had been cast, which makes sense to me, Like he rewrote the villain lines to sound more like Dennis Hopper lines, and rewrote the Jack lines to sound more like Keanu Reeves line, and he rewrote and thee's lines to sound like a love interest, which is I wanted to hit on. There is that, um, the casting and the writing for this movie, it seemed like deeply studio notes and how it ended the way it ended where originally and this is uh scholarly journal Wikipedia, but also um is from an Entertainment Weekly article from for the Speed twentieth anniversary. But the anti character was originally a black woman and a paramedic, Oh my god. Yeah, and which which actually makes a lot more sense because a paramedic would understand how to get somewhere fast in an emergency, which is why she was That character was written that way to like justify why she'd be able to like take control of the right. Yeah. Right, And so so this is like a very frustrating point where yeah, the the original script had Annie as a black paramedic, and then the role was offered to Halle Berry. She said no. I don't know why, but she said no. And then instead of pursuing other black actors, they decided to change the character entirely, and the character was then rewritten to be a driver's ed teacher that was more comic relief, and that role was offered to Ellen Degenerous. Speaking of book soup, customers did not see that twist. Twist, I don't think I would have enjoyed that, but like so, then Ellen was offered the part. Presumably Ellen passed. I don't really have info on that. And then I feel like the final phase of studio notes took hold when they said, well, let's reimagine Annie as a love interest, and then the part was whitewashed and removed of all prof national authority or knowledge and it became a random white woman played by Sandra Bullock named Annie. And so essentially, as far as I can understand, Josh Weeden wrote, basically that entire part based off of Sandra Bullocks existing persona at that time. Also like her, like the drivers and teacher can drive, the paramedic can drive, and Sandra Bullock has gotten a ticket for speed. Her license were both for speeding, and that's why she's good at driving this buss and that's all we know about her too, that's all we know. And then she she misses her car. Yeah, so I found I mean, I'm glad that that. It's I feel like we were talking all the time about how like studio notes potentially influenced scripts, but this one is like pretty well documented. And the way that this character of Vault was is just like so typical and frustrating where it was like for sure, it sounds like the originally written version would have been the most effective and was ditched because here's one of my big issues. Well, I mean, I've got many issues with this otherwise perfect movie. That's amazing, um that her becoming the like de facto bus driver happens almost randomly, where like while it is cool that like we do see a woman driving a bus and like, you know, for the most part, keeping her cool under pressure and like keeping the bus going the speed it needs to be going, and like helping everyone stay alive and stuff like that's cool to see in this like way that you know, it's it's this prolonged part of the movie too, you know, she's necessary to the plot of the movie, but her being the bus driver basically happens randomly, where like Jack is highly skilled or so we are led to believe, and that's why he's that's why it's important. He's an active participant in the story. But Annie wasn't given any special skills or training by the screenwriter, unless you count that she like speeds and then gets pulled over for it, and like, yeah, maybe it was like they were trying to be subtle when she first when Jack first gets on the train, she stands up to him and she's like trying to take charge. So I mean that's I'm I'm reaching. I am reaching, But like I have the same that though, like she was like at least had the confidence to put herself into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I I sort of. I was. I feel like it would have really helped the story, truly only helped the story if she had had more knowledge of driving or just like more character. Like I just like we don't we we knew nothing about her really, and Sandra Bulok is a great actress and that you still kind of like liked watching her and she was like funny and stuff. But yeah, we don't know details, like she's on her way to work, which is why she's catching the bus, but what's her job? We never Also, she is not creditive with the last name. I noticed that immediately. She and three Okay, so she doesn't have a last name, which gave me very Ali from Lady Gaga a star is born vibes where it's like Jackson Maine. That's a part of what everything we know about that character, that's cannon Ali period, Like that's all you know. I mean, I hate that, so complete garbage but heart degree. But anyways, like I mean, the female protagonists not having a last name is pretty glaring. And then on top of that, the only three passengers on the bus that don't have any name at all or even a nickname are women of color on the bus, which is like, that's something that I don't know. I mean, I guess we should we should talk about Annie and then get to the people on the bus. But Annie, I mean, it sucks because it's like I totally agree with you shearine that everything I like about Annie has more to do with Sandra Bullocks performance that how the character is actually because there's really not much there. There's nothing there. And this happens a lot in action movies where the protagonist is a man with action movie skills, like he's good at fighting, he's good at shooting guns, or whatever other like action movie skills you might have, and then the one female character usually is just kind of like along for the ride, or if she does have a special skill, it's not really anything that allows her to participate in the action parts of this movie. This movie doesn't really fall into that category because, like she does end up driving the whole thing. So the fact that she ends up driving the bus and like her actions are very important to this movie. But again it's kind of random. But she, again she's not equipped with any like special training or action movie skills. She ended up needing a lot of like help and guidance from the man who does have these skills. She's constantly like asking Jack what she should do. But if she was given if she was like a paramedic for example, and like had to drive an ambulance for her job, like she would just have more agency, even a driver's at teacher, she would have had a like an authoritative view of the road, Like yeah, multiple elements, Like first, the fact that this character was whitewashed from the first draft, and then that she was also stripped of her agency or authority in the situation. On top of that, I thought it was really interesting and like frustrating that the two additional action movies, in this action movie at the beginning and the end, we're not in that original draft that included a paramedic. And so I think that by the time the character had been whitewashed and stripped of agency, that made it all the easy year for people doing rewrites to damsel her, because theoretically previous versions of the character would have been much more difficult to damsel because you knew more about her, And like, I feel like they almost take advantage of the fact that the audience knows nothing about Annie to make it plausible that she would be easily damseled by the Dennis Hopper character because we don't know is she a very naive person. We have kind of no idea, and so when that happens, it's like, I guess I have I don't really understand whether this is something the character. I didn't think it would be something that character would go for it. But also it's a police authority figure intervening and maybe she would say, Okay, I'll go with you. It just it obscures what she's about so much that it almost that it makes it believable that she would be damseled like that, and that sucks, I know. Yeah, another drawback of not equipping her with any special skills or training or agency, like if she did have some reason that would justify her being at that like money drop off location, like if she was actively helping out with that situation, the story would make more sense because right now there's absolutely no reason why a civilian would have been brought. They're like, she probably I don't know, admittedly, I don't know anything about like police procedure. I don't know yet. It seems like she's like waiting for Jack for like a date to get off work. Like if I received a bullock, I'd be like bring me home. I'll like look up your badge number later or whatever, like if I need to date a cop. Well, because she's in the ambulance and he's like I'll be right back, and then he's not right back, and she's concerned, like where is But that makes no sense. She would have been probably taken to a hospital because she did sustain injuries. They just put like nail polish remover on her. They're like, she's fine. So it makes absolutely no sense that she is there. And literally the only reason the script brings her along is so that she can be kidnapped and damseled. Right, She's just so frustrating and accessory. For sure. It's stinks. It's stinks, especially because up to that point not and this was prior to me knowing about the writing history of the anti character. My general feeling was like, Okay, it's definitely not perfect, but this could have been way worse. And then and then the more you learn, and then the more the movie goes on, you're like, God. But the third act definitely like reeks to me of studio notes, which is like a good and bad thing, because do I dislike the train sequence, Not at all. I think the train sequence is awesome. I love seeing Kioto be like speed it up, like whatever the he said, You're like, oh, he's doing it again. So we never see the dead driver ever, there's there's no remorse for the dead driver or anything, even when they crash, and do we ever find out I say him is like oh no, I mean the driver of the train. Yeah, yeah, I mean Sam is okay, he got help, he was good. We hope that he made it out alive and well, but yeah, a lot of people die and there's not Sometimes a tear is shed, but otherwise it's like, all right, let's move along. Even Harry Temple, no one cried for Harry Temple, not even did have like a breakdown. He went good. I mean, he had an outburst, but like then Annie quickly calmed him down because she does that as a woman, and she's very nurturing, so she fixed him. The romantic couple in this movie do have the superpower to get over extreme trauma very quickly because Sam, like realistically, which obviously it's like, what's even the point of having that discussion for this movie, But like, if you were Annie, and it's clue that she and Sam are friends. They see each other every day. He's shot, it's very unclear, at least me as an audience member, if like if it's something he will survive or not. And then she's kind of up friend like la la am I going fast enough, you're cute and there's like your friend and he's and then and then when you do find out that Sam is going to survive. He's directly behind her, like if she didn't even talk to him once, you know, yeah, she'll we talk about the bus passengers. I mean, I have a whole yes, Do you have anything else? Does anyone have anything else to say about Andy's character? Um, I'll just I mean, like I do think it's so hilarious that flirting is still a thing, even in the face like certain death. And like there's a moment where she takes off her cardigan and Kanu was like looking at her, being like, oh, she's taking off her cardigan like hit and He's like wow. Yeah. And it's also like trauma bodging is real, Like that's there's there's a lot there. It is real. But it but this is like the most wedged in love story for sure. I agree and disagree, like of all of that, like we've we've dealt with so many implausible forest love stories. But Sharie, I agree, trauma bonding could be a strong argument for this. And they they do call attention to yeah yeah twice and but and then again they are just too hot people, you know, they found each other. Hot people near each other will fall in love and kiss in a movie happens every time. I mean the ending. The last thing she says is she wants to base the relationship off sex. I kind of loved that for them. I was like, you know what, iconic have a ton of sex. And then then maybe they stopped talking a week from the end of the movie. We don't know, we have no idea. I mean, speed Too didn't have Kyoto. She is dating someone else and speed To so I mean, yeah, I guess canonically buddies and then they weren't. I kind of love that, So that's Annie whatever. The love story is very, very forced, but that's don't Maybe it's just because that's like far from one of my my more intense criticisms of the movie that the love story like is so corny and sucks. But like, I don't know, it didn't bother me as much as other elements. Well, I think maybe that was on purpose because part of the reason that Cascian it was because he's attractive to the ladies, as they say, and so maybe they added that element also to appeal to their women. They're like what they imagine straight women watchers, you know what I mean. So it's like, maybe that's what they were going for to like everyone's satisfied with this movie. We ticked all the boxes. Yeah, that is a thing in Hollywood where like executives and you know, people who are giving all these studio notes are like, well, this is an action movies and girls hate action. They like love and those are the rules. So we have to put love in the action movie so that women will come to see this. And it's like, you know that all genders will come for both of those themes exactly. Everyone wants to see Kanu and Sandy. Fuck like, that's that desire knows no no bounds. The sequel to Speed is not Speed to Cruise Control. It is actually The lake House. So it is I saw The lake House in theaters same so did I Do you know that Sandra Bullock won the MTV Movie Award for Most Desirable Woman for Speed Most Desirable Woman. That's a category that was where it was the MTV movie words are like so, I mean I covered that briefly in Lolita podcast, where there was an adaptation of Lolita that was nominated for Best Movie. Kiss Like the MTV Movie Awards fucking suck, Like I'm most desirable woman is also the most creepy way to phrase that award. Truly, Yeah, that's the award, that is the award most desirable Women. I hope she uses it as like a toilet paper dispenser. But yeah, it's like every action movie you can think of it. I mean not everyone, but like every James Bond movie, every Mission Impossible, there's some type of like hotness for the guy and also romance for the ladies, like assumed ladies, but you know it's the same um. But yeah, as far as the secondary and tertiary characters who are women, as far as like the opening elevator sequence, there's a woman who is really scared to get off the elevator and she's basically presented as this like woman being quote unquote hysterical and that being treated as an obstacle like it often is in movies. That same woman loses her shoe that that's what I was laughing about my shoe, and it's like it's because women be loving shoes. Also, the way that that sequence is shot, well for I had I had I had written down uh feminist icon ha ha he he lady, where there's a woman in that first sequence where she's like she's got this very like she has a blonde blowout because it and every time we see her, we don't know anything about her, but she's always going ha ha or he or she's whispering to a man like she's flirting. She's just like, we're right. And then when you see her pulled out of the elevator, eventually it's like you see up a woman's skirt. During the elevator scene, you see like a woman's but when she's being pulled out like the way that particularly in that sequence. It doesn't happen quite as much in the bus sequence, but particularly in the elevator sequence, there's a lot of like like very I felt like intentionally shot up the skirt or like skirts riding up of the female characters for sure, like they did not need to position the camera that way. The wardrobe could have been different, like you know, women wear pants sometimes it was very intentional to like to show these like this hot but sexualized this little underwear. Yeah, it reminded me of the office scene in die Hard at the beginning, where you see a woman topless for no reason other than they're like we had to titilate the crowd at the beginning, like I think it was like very similar motivations there for sure. And then as far as the women on the bus, Jamie, you mentioned that many of them are women of color, but they do not speak ever really though, you just see like close up shots of them being afraid. Right, we do not know their names or any information about them. The only thing do be afraid, yes, and they're great. One more like kind of secondary character who is given a name and a small arc I suppose is Helen played by Beth Grant, a notable character actor. She is made to be similarly quote unquote hysterical to the point that it gets her killed because she's trying to get off the bus after being repeatedly told that she can't get off the bus or the bus will explode. But she's just painted as again a very common thing in action movies. This happens in horror movies to where like a woman will just be her again quote unquote hysteria that has been ascribed to this character makes her abandon all like logic and sense of reason. And that's what women do, That's what they're saying. Women put up, We put ourselves in danger, and it's the only no, only not hysterical woman in this movie. Is that one lady cop that I don't think she has a name, maybe it's on her shirt or something. But the one lady cop that's like talking to Jeff Daniels for one, Yeah, I wrote that too, and I was like, well, ultimately it's a compaghetti pizza, Like, well, I guess it's a wash, but yeah, it's like the lady cop does all this investigative work off screen and then to show that and she's like, I figured out who the bad guy is. And then Jeff Daniels is like, that's feminism, and that's feminism. Oh my god. I mean I wanted to could just give another shout out to uh Beth Grant, who is also in another movie we covered recently at Too Wong Foo. Yes she is. She's in that as well. She's also in Little Miss Sunshine. But we had the bench cast love a good character actor, so there's that there. There are a number of good character actors in this movie. But yeah, I mean there's I would say that there's for me, there were like four passengers that had discernible arcs, and it was Helen, who is the only other one when we meet, which isn't another white woman who has killed immediately. Then there is Ortiz, who the most we learned about his background is that he has a wife and he's tough. The first thing he out says to him is he calls him gigant Or, which I did not like. That was like, sir at least or Ties is like, my name is Ortiz, and he's like, okay, or I guess I'll call you that instead of gigant Or. That was so like what gigantic was, like, was that established in anyway? That's a draw sweeded and Ortiz like has at least some sort of like he is like actively involved in the plot from there on. The same goes for the yokel guy, who I will say like that was like one of the first things that I noticed once Sandra Book was on screen is that he's like low key. I feel like it wasn't known as like harassment, like public transit harassment, but he was harassing her at the beginning of that movie. And she's like, um, I'm and honestly like, unfortunately I took note of her strategy because I'm like, that's not the worst thing I've ever heard. She's like, there's gun on my seat, I have to move. I was like, oh, I might use that in the future. So that guy, they gave him so much character though, like he was taking pictures of the of the disaster part and then he was just like he had this weird intense moment. He's like I shouldn't be here, and it's just like they could have spent that time making a woman talk absolutely shit about him. The most hated character to me, Yeah, I didn't give a shit about him when he almost died at the end of like by like whatever, who cares? Sorry? But and then the last character that you learned something about I don't know if you ever learned his name is the guy who mistakenly shoots Sam the bus driver at the beginning of the movie, which I had a lot of like issues with where it's like, Okay, you're putting this movie on a bus, which is going to imply lower income people are going to be on this and I feel like they it's a diverse group of people on the bus, so you're like, Okay, where is this going. And then immediately the first person of color you get to know on the bus pulls a gun is assumed to have committed a crime and that's why he pulls the gun and then shoot somebody. And I was like, this fucking sucks. Like I don't know who is responsible for writing this, but it was. It was just like so where this setting specifically gives you such an interesting opportunity to get to know like working class Angelino's and it just kind of it misses that opportunity and then like reinforces negative stereotypes on top of that. I was just so bummed out by just every writing instinct with the characters on the bus, right because said they spend way more time on the tourist guy from who knows where, but like it's like this white guy played by Alan Ruck doesn't even go here, doesn't even out of town, Like who can no disrespect to Allan Rock whatever, live your life. And clearly Jehan de Borne liked him because he was also a twister. Oh yeah he was. And then even before Kiana gets on the bus, there's that there's a chunk of the movie where like Kanu common Deer's a guy's vehicle to try to catch up with the bus. He is credited as Jaguar owner. He's played by actor Glenn Plummer. Who shows up in Speed to Cruise Control BT. He was great in this movie. I liked watching him, but but his license plate did say Tuned Man. It did stay Tuned Man. And then he also at one point he does identify as Maurice. Okay, he does have name, but he's not credited as that name in the credits. But then I went back and watched that, like I wrote him down as Maurice. But then apparently whoever made the credits wasn't even watching the movie very carefully because they're just like Jaguar on But like, so you've got Kanu who's like waving his badge and gun around, points a gun in this black man's face, being like, I need your car, and just like I was like, how is this going to? Like because I didn't remember exactly what happened during that moment. Well there's a moment because he says, the cop comes up and the Maurice immediately says, this car isn't stolen, like I said, if that's what he's going to with a black man driving a Jaguar, and then Kanu has another quip he said it is now because I'm stealing it, and then he ruins his car. Oh my gosh, it was. It was difficult to watch. Yeah, that scene was really fresh because because it felt again like that was a scene where I was like, Okay, the is being shot in is there going to be some attempt at commentary on how l a p D officers would have very rightfully been perceived at this time, especially, But then it did like you're sancuying. It just like devolves into quips and they take that really charged set up and they just they're like, well and they and they just turn it into like t he ha ha, and well that makes me think about the casting of Joe Morton as Mac, the police captain. He's also a black man. And I'm not saying there weren't any like black police officers on absolutely at this time, but I wonder, because this is like such a capaganda piece and this was happening in the wake of the Rodney King riots, I wonder if that was a very Yeah, I feel like that was a very intentional choice to be like, well, how can the l a p D be racist? You've got a black police captain in the movie Speed, And it's like, yeah, right, I wanna yeah, I want to link to a few resources on that topic in in the notes of this episode as well, because that definitely, like is at this point, like it's been a trope that has been recognized and written about. There are a lot of black police officers police in movies and TV. Yeah, like particularly now too, even in like Brooklyn or even in these funny copaganda sitcoms or whatever. Watchman is a big one. Watchman. Watchman was a big one. I Black Klansman was one that I saw brought up a lot. I just watched Mayra Vise Town. Uh, that's the other show where the chief of police is. There so many Yeah, there there is like a huge trend of casting black actors as influential cops and not and Caitlin Lakers like there. It's not as if that doesn't happen. It absolutely does, But just making that choice in media and like popular media specifically, it's like it comes with a lot of baggage that intentional because it's because you're assuming that they have to climb up the ranks to even get to that position. They have a lot of respect, you know, and then they can't be racist because they're being told to do by black man, you know what I mean? Like it's I don't know bad boys. That's another that's another big yeah. I mean there's there's a really good article I read about it from Black Art in America by a writer named Steve Chambers that I want to link in the description because yeah, I don't feel like I can talk about it with any amount of authority. But it definitely is like a trope that has been kind of on, if not on the rise, definitely continued up to like right as we're recording this episode with no real sign of stopping. Yeah, and yeah, And I feel like that is like that kind of speaks to the limitations that like having strictly a representation conversation can have at times, as like the view of like well, if there is a woman or a person of color or a queer person apart, then I have no more questions. Like we did it, We did it, We did our job. Yeah, like that our asses are covered kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, where it's like, well that there's clearly like context is necessary, as there would be for any actor. And imagine if Wesley Snipes was the lead, Like I wonder like that would be a huge copaganda piece, right, especially after Rodney King. That's sure to think about. And then on the other end, it's like, yeah, I would have liked to see Wesley Snipes in this part. Like it's just he would have been great. I love Wesley Snips. He would have been great, but it's it would be a much different movie. Yeah, And it's like and I feel again, it's like, it would have been cool to see actors in in the part of Jack as like renegade guy versus l APG cop who we love and respect. I do want to shout out Joe Morton, who plays the police captain, because he's another iconic character actor who's been in a bajillion movies. I know he rules. He's an iconic character actor and is I was looking through his UM whatever his IMDb. Yes, yes, and he has played cops and like high ranking cops several times in his career. And he also plays a lot of doctors. So um, but I'm always happy to see Joe Morton. It's this is just the fucking worst. Yeah. Do you think the police chief would still be black if halle Berry was cast? I bet not. I bet they'd be like, well, we filled our quota. They tried with one black woman. The only woman they can think of it popular and then they moved right along. That's what they knew no other black women. They just didn't know any other black women. That's kind of what that says to me, too, is just like, oh, well, Hallie Berry can't do it. Well, I guess we better start asking white women as if there were no extremely talented black actresses working at that time. I bet it was also like a box office draw thing too, which is like literally like, well, you know, there aren't any other black actresses who will pull, like be a box office draw. But Hollywood, that's your fault for never giving black women the opportunity to be in like big budget movies and like develop a box office draw. But also, Sandra Bullock wasn't a big huge deal back then, like she had been Demolition Man. But I think this really catapulted her career in a different way. So it wasn't like she was a huge box office draw, that's true, yeah, but they were willing to They were like more willing to see her potential as a white woman, that's right, And it's very seldom that they would give the same opportunity to a black woman or any woman of color. And that goes back to a conversation that we've been having for years, and I'm sure we will be having for more years of the fact that the entire at least the upper production team in this movie, we're all white guys, and and so it stands to reason that no one was even thinking to ask these questions. And it seems like it was a very cookie cutter nineties. Um, okay, this is our representation quota. We're not going to think about the context of representation whatsoever, and we'll just shift these puzzle pieces around until we've like done whatever the equation for a box office hit is, and it worked. Is The frustrating thing too, is that this movie was wildly successful. It made back it's budget ten times. It made three hundred and fifty million dollars in money on a The numbers are a little unclear. It was budget was like somewhere between thirty and thirties seven million dollars. I do think it's interesting because Kianu is biracial, Like he's not a white guy, but I think Hollywood treats him as a white guy, you know what I mean. Like, I don't think that they don't think they were like we're casting a biracial person. They were just like, we're casting counter Reeves. He's cool, you know what I mean, Like, I don't think they think that critically about anything because he's he has native Hawaiian and Chinese ancestry, but Hollywood codes him white. Yeah, very wide passing. Yeah. God, I love k He Also Kanu was also Morning River Phoenix on the side of this movie. He's had a hard life. I love him so much. That was the reason I wanted to pick this movie. Just I told you in the email. Anything with Kean, I'm honestly, I'm so thrilled that you did pick this movie because there's so much more to talk about than I remembered never was. And um, on that note, we've got to speed up this bus. Yes, yeah, you're going to speed at this bus because I have therapy in six minutes. Oh yeah, Okay, So we established that it does pass the Bechtel tests. Between Annie and Helen, they talk about their commute to work, which is not a man so amazing feminist moment in famous community is genderless incredible. Um, as far as our nipple scale zero to five nipples. Based on how the movie Fair is looking at it from an intersectional feminist lens. I mean, I suppose I would give this like a one point five. It gets a little hot because there are kind of comparable nineties action movies that usually get like a half a nipple or zero nipples. This one gets a little bit more because you do have a woman as a dry ving force of the movie pun intended and is made to be far more important than many other The single woman in an action movie is she's helping to drive the narrative again literally, but she is damseled. She is forced into this like very wedged in love story that didn't need to be there. The few women who get to speak at all are white women. The women of color are relegated to the background, and you know, we learned nothing about them. Other women are made to seem hysterical as an obstacle for the men to deal with. So lots of problems still that are very typical of the genre. Um, so I'll give it one point five. I will give one nipple to Keanu and I will give my half nipple to Joe Morton at the end. Um, I guess, yeah, I guess I'll give this a one nipple because it's which has nothing to do with the movie's watchability, which it's like it pains me to say that, in spite of the fact of the like all these issues we've been talking about this movie, I'll still watch it again. It's so fun to fucking there are very few movies that can like make me feel like I'm watching it for the first time again. I don't know, Like it's just really well they did. They convinced us to like this movie. Like they did their jobs. That's saying something. We're yeah, you're totally right, like we're not prime candidates to really want to watch this movie again. But it's like we're cop haters and they tricked us to loving this movie. It's I love this rude. It's the copaganda hit so hard, Like it's uh, so yeah, I can't this movie much higher because just the more I learned about the production about the movie, the more frustrating it becomes. Of the fact that the female lead was whitewashed and stripped of agency in advance of shooting, the fact that it is such a clear piece of coppaganda, the fact that the bus is half populated by people of color who we never get to know, and yet we're like talking to this guy for this white guy from Wisconsin for large swaths of scenes for some reason, like there's just all this stuff that is so nineties. And also the context of like when it was filmed and came out just strikes me as so such a gross overt piece of specific copaganda for the L A p D specifically, that is just upsetting. It's just it fucking sucks. And then on the other hand, it's so much fun to watch. I do appreciate that, like, and I do think most of the things that I like about Annie are that I like Sandra Bulk and her performance is really fun and Keanu is so funny and good and hot, and I'm gonna give it one nipple, and I'm gonna give the nipple to feminist icon the bus hell. Yeah, Cherine, what about you. I want to give Kanu five nipples, but I won't do that. Um. I will give Keanu a single nipple. And I agree with everything that Jamie said. I will give half a nipple to just the fact that Sandra Bullock is a badass driver, which I appreciated, But that's about it. Yeah, it's just the fact that this happened so quickly after the Rodney King riots just so fucked up to me, like that is another level of capaganda, that is that's fucked up. So I mean, but they still managed to make me have a good time, and that's that is troubling that it worked so well. I know it's only been of Kanu. I really think so if it was like that guy was or whatever. Yeah, like fun, No, like I want to give a shit about this movie. Yeah right again, this movie is basically the same premise as die Hard, and I would not vouch for die Hard for a second, no, but it is Keanu really carries this movie. That's a game changer. Well, Sharine, thank you so much for joining us, Thanks for having me, thanks for having me just fangirl about Kanu. And I love the stories that Jamie said. I'm wanting to think of those for the rest of my life. There's more where that came from. There's I mean, I'm waiting for my interaction. It will happen one day If there is, it's it's Sharne workin. People follow you online, check out any stuff, any plug plug away. Okay, I'm on Twitter at Shiro hero six six six s H E E R. O A g R oh than and I want Instagram at just shiro Hero. My website is in one of those bios, and yeah, if you you can just google me if you want to. I don't. I have a poetry book on Amazon, but I'm trying to make my second one happen because the first one is on Amazon, and uh, it's also like very um it's like from when I was sixteen to so it's kind of like not my best writing. So hoping another one comes out soon. But if you want the first one, you can go get it on Amazon if you want to. Uh, you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. We've also got a Patreon a k A Matreon ever ever heard of it, which has an enormous backlog of bonus episodes triple digits, my goodness. If you subscribe, get two of those bonus episodes a month, plus access to that back catalog. It's five dollars a month and you can access that via patreon dot com, slash backtel Cast and hey, while you're at it, if you're in the mood for a little slice of merch, you can go to our t public store and that's the T public dot com, slash the backtel cast because sometimes you gotta throw the the in there to really funk with people's heads, keep them on their toe. Remember in the social network when justin timber Like is like drop the the it should just be Facebook. It's cleaner, that's what That's what we should have said to T Public. But we did it. Yeah, we did not say drop the We should have gone to T public headquarters wherever the hell that is have been like, drop the it's clean it's cleaner. That's the only redeeming moment of Jeff into her like entire life, which is wild. Um, so that's where you can find us. Uh, if you'll excuse us, We have to go. I think the bus is about to get here, Caitlin, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've got to get on the bus to go to work. I'm sure it'll be fine. Nothing to feed here, Bye bye,