Inside the Room with a Killer: Veteran Journalist Susan Hendricks on Bryan Kohberger’s Sentencing

[SPEAKER_01]: today on misunderstood with Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Susan Hendricks outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could see it behind me of the eight of County Courthouse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Getting ready to go inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a day that the family members have been waiting for a chance to address Brian Coburger with the victim impact statements.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because everyone around me is looking over at her, said this sister.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then looking at him and it felt like a tennis match but it was back of work that everyone's on the extra their seat and I promised you he was this close to reacting.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a moment in every crime story where the cameras turn off, the media moves on, and the public forgets.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the people left behind the families, the survivors, the journalists who show up day after day never forget.
[SPEAKER_01]: Today, I'm misunderstood.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm joined by someone who refuses to let us look away, case after case.
[SPEAKER_01]: Susan Hendrick, veteran journalist and host of the new YouTube series, headline crime, waited outside an Idaho courthouse since ten pm last night just to be led in this morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because what happened inside those courtroom walls today will go down as one of the most haunting emotional and unresolved chapters in recent true crime history.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brian Coberger, the man who brutally murdered four university of Idaho students in twenty twenty two was formally sentenced to four consecutive life terms, no death penalty, no chance of appeal and still no explanation as families of the
[SPEAKER_01]: victims, Kaylee, Madison, Zayna and Ethan delivered heartbreaking victim impact statements.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alongside one of the surviving roommates, who is carried trauma, the world can't begin to understand, co-burgers sat there, silent.
[SPEAKER_01]: When asked if he had anything to say he declined, respectfully.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for the rest of us, it was anything but respectful.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was another twist of the knife, because the question that haunts every single person connected to this tragedy still remains unanswered.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why them?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why that house?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why that night?
[SPEAKER_01]: Susan was there to witness it all inside the courtroom where the grief, rage, and unanswered questions collided.
[SPEAKER_01]: And today she's here to share what the cameras didn't catch, what the media had lines missed, and why this story can't just end with a sentence.
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't about giving a murderer the spotlight.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about giving the victims and the truth, a final word.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's hear from Susan Hendrix, who just left the courtroom from Hotel in Idaho.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's joining us a second time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so thankful she's a dear friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually was at her wedding years ago, if you can believe it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm so happy she chose us to give her thoughts after being in the courtroom and being so tired.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's hear our conversation today with my friends, Susan Hendrix.
[SPEAKER_01]: who's in Hendrick's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for joining me again on misunderstood right out from the courthouse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was it like?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so good to be here and I thought of you today as I was covering this and being inside the courtroom it's so different and victim impact statements.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say during Delphi when I covered that the victim impact statements
[SPEAKER_00]: You're at all the time, and when you're on the set, you think, okay, that's what's happening next, and make it to say something or write something down.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I learned, and I got to text from Kelsey today that said, if you're talking to the family members, tell them, I feel for them, because it's something, and you know this, if you don't go through it, you really don't understand what they're growing through, and Kelsey says, you know why I have soft spot for siblings.
[SPEAKER_00]: and she was connecting with Kaley Sister.
[SPEAKER_00]: So while I'm trying this, I expected it to be passionate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew the Kaley's father, but I always thought that, okay, there's four families that are going through this horrific hell.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you align all four families?
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only in how they're going to mourn, but
[SPEAKER_00]: What they're going to think, it's like, I kind of, in passing, I think about my daughter, like if someone did that to her, what I want to attack them or what I want to say, I've nothing to do with you anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't bring my son or my daughter back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been on your own son.
[SPEAKER_00]: What would I do?
[SPEAKER_00]: We never know until maybe different families feel differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Today, Rachel, I felt like everything was aligned because you know how there's been stuff in the news about how one family feels this way and the other family feels that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: what the prosecution wasn't telling the families, but it felt like to me and this stood out to me that everyone had a meeting because the one thing and everyone's victim impact statements, as you could see it, it was live.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're different, but the one continuing thing that I thought was pointy was, we're together.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't represent part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It almost happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: It almost happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even I believe it was Xana's aunt.
[SPEAKER_00]: who said, you know, we had some rough spots, of course, because you know, if you, I try to put myself in their shoes and think like, there'd be anger.
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't do this or you didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why was she there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why was he there?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then so she said there was anger.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt that with Kaylin's father too, like, you tried to rip us apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was the theme.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they all met.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they all, you could tell, had an alliance together, but I feel like recently they may have all met and said, this is about this guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's make him feel as terrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do this together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was your position.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry if you have to believe it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you didn't take us down.
[SPEAKER_01]: right exactly so as an outsider like I got your text and basically I went right on and I was like oh I have to watch this I was in my car listening to the whole thing and as an outsider I will say I thought it was crazy that he just sat there with his arms still and he didn't move I really was like hoping he would move or cry was he actually looking at them all the people that were making this that's that's a great question because
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so the lines started and it's so we're being a news for so many years with CNN and if you're sent to a trial, it was different back then you kind of sent to a trial and you get in and you sit where you sit, but now because every which I like everyone has different channels and and you could appeal there for people and I feel like it's
[SPEAKER_00]: The courts don't know what to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're kind of behind them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we lined up at ten.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you know Joel from surviving the survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been on his show.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I see him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh my gosh, Joel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's this weird juxtaposition.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh my gosh, good to see you.
[SPEAKER_00]: We all wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's hours and hours and hours, but it's to get in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to get in?
[SPEAKER_00]: How much do you want to get in?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then once you get in, it's, it's, oh my gosh, they're the families and there he is.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're very, were you nervous that there wasn't going to be room?
[SPEAKER_00]: I like was everyone was I was, but in the past and it's different everywhere in Delphi Indiana.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was you can be in the pool of media and kind of then you're responsible for all of the notes, but then you don't guarantee spot in or or you can line up, which we did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did for thirty days.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can line up.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to line up around three at two thirty three a.m.
[SPEAKER_00]: every day.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're first in line of first in line, well, this felt like Lord of the flies because the court was saying, you can't line up on our property.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we went across the street and then people were saying, well, why am I across the street?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then journalists like Brian Anthony's amazing and different journalists are coming in as they should because the court is telling people for am is when he showed up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, everyone else, I got a call that says, it's ten p.m.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're people lining up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I go out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's ten p.m.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, one day's into the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm zero split.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm thinking, okay, so and Brian Anton is like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you know, it's somebody deal if I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you're getting in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a weird kind of the Lord of the flies way that kind of has evolved because no one really knows what to do with all of the new media.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think they should do because everyone has a voice and everyone has a voice, but you could have two viewers and you could be filled with vitriol and not all there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it should be on how many viewers, maybe like how
[SPEAKER_00]: Like back in the day, if you're interested, Cooper, you can get in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have the viewer to get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have such a history.
[SPEAKER_01]: You are an icon in this like true crime field.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would think that you could get in anyway.
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And imagine me, I am an icon.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have seen a shift, which is amazing to see, play out before me, of normal TV news.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what people watch,
[SPEAKER_00]: what was consistent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's how you now I look back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, oh my gosh, if you think about it, I follow Billy Bush.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's new on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, remember how like, let's say you look, J. Love, you had to watch at this Hollywood to find that out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we'll get it in a phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like watching to on my Instagram and he has this new show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's so funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he just has a way of being so natural and
[SPEAKER_00]: someone asked him because he does a live show now and someone asked him like, why did you not go back to actually telling?
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's like, oh, I have to be trying to explain.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, my, what I was being paid was going to be cut significantly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, and that's not really it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I didn't have the guts, so to speak, to do what I'm doing now.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, just didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't because when you're crazy, couldn't you have the voice that he has now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's like, I couldn't say shit or I couldn't say this or I couldn't say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was nervous because you, it's, you get so used to being a certain way of keeping news.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's all my friend Lauren, who does hitting true crime, who I love.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, you're so used, because she did local ones and she's like, she's like, she's, and I could tell you're like, you're so like, the graphics and the this and the that, everything has to be perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just have to get used to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is a wall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I just want to ask you a quick question.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many internet sleuths, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Just people behind their computer and Reddit has like come out with, you know, having people just find out information about different people and cases that has helped, you know, like in that Karen Reed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you mentioned this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have turtle boy who was, you know, sort of just a random guy that had a YouTube channel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just interviewed him and he exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you brought this up because
[SPEAKER_00]: They realized the problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, in the courts, I'm like, we don't know what's media anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: They dropped it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they ran for the hills.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I get that because I wrote a book about Delphine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did, I will say, I'm ready whether it was positive or negative.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could find out, like, because I wrote a chapter on internet solutions, it's like, oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I got to know Gabby Petito's parents through the years along their board now for their foundation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Joe Petito is the best guy ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said to me, Susan, you'd be shocked.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said that even though a TikTok was two million people were looking for Gabby, they found the van because of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's no disrespect to anyone who does that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it helps through crime.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, who do you let in the courts?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, do you expand the courts to like stadium seating?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, exactly, we're out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ten PM.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ten PM.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, sidebar, because I want to get back to it, but talking about Gabby Petito for one second.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did they ever find out from his parents?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are his parents saying about the whole thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not, are they remembering?
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember saying to Joe Petito and you have to have
[SPEAKER_00]: him and Tara on the show and Nicole and Jim.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they all are really good friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: They golfed with my husband.
[SPEAKER_00]: Joe and Jim, the best friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're really good friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just for the cameras.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're amazing and they would love you and you would love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they?
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when I first did a sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and this is how the relationship came about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this is worth telling.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm overworked them exhausted at each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's my fault.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm staying up to late.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying no to different shows.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Too much, too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they said, OK, call.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here is Joe Petito's phone number.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gabby's father called him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, OK, I'm leaving.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll call him in the park.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I called him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would allow he answered, hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said hi, this is Susan Hendrack, someone with HLN and how are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: And will you do it?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if we go see, yeah, how are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I go, no good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I start crying.
[SPEAKER_00]: I start crying.
[SPEAKER_00]: The joke, but yes, and he goes, don't worry about what's wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just want, I'm so sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: But seeing Gabby, you know, I think it triggered something in all women who have known that bad relationship and it triggered something in me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so, and I'm about to cry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I'm so sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd be surprised who's in how many?
[SPEAKER_00]: Women applied to me, and I think you should tell your truth, I said, I can't right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel, and ever since then, and his, their family is amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did ask them, so during the, so that carried on to me, getting a sit down interview with them, it is place to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the camera guys are setting up, it's the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, do you think it's the dad?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what he does now?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what would come up?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was way before we got that burn after reading.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not blaming all moms.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying it's mom's fault.
[SPEAKER_00]: But something was off clearly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Gabby and Heinstein was a because they got divorced.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was amicable.
[SPEAKER_00]: They got married, Joe Petito.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to be with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was nineteen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it was that it's everything's very friendly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that she was living with Brian.
[SPEAKER_00]: And probably, I mean, with the parents, clearly they didn't like Gabby.
[SPEAKER_00]: So so she's probably like, okay, Van life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like that happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, and I get asked this question a lot of why certain cases bring people in and others don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember being on a crime con stage with Joe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I've known for like five years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's wonderful.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I said, I'm going to be asked that question.
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes, I'm asked it too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And literally Rachel, what their family's doing, it's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: They said, we don't know why Gabi got that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe because back in the day they didn't have like footage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Matt, she was people connected.
[SPEAKER_00]: Either that's me or that's my daughter that could be me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It connected.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he said, everyone should get the resources.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they literally go from state to state to change laws.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're literally doing something about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I'm asked, oh, is it because she's blonde and pretty?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, but I think control that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the news organizations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but it's if you're a mother and you have a daughter, you know, if it's you've ever been in an abusive relationship, if you've ever had somebody that you don't know what happened to them, you know, it's like you're triggered by all of that and we were all
[SPEAKER_01]: wondering what happened and if there was a chance she could be alive and then if we were ever gonna find him and you know it was so in it Reminded me of the Casey Anthony story because you got access to the parents and you were like How are you allowing this his parents?
[SPEAKER_01]: Brian's and everyone was like where is Brian?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where where the answers he was there is why are you mowing the loan?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, why aren't you upset?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why aren't you looking for this girl?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so there was so much anger to it and it could have been a multitude of reasons for people, but I think obviously Gabby struck a chord and a lot of people for a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you and I feel the same based on experience, but a friend of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I won't name him the same, but he's a good friend of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a producer at CNN and he was like, he saw that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, but it's so differently than I. And he's, he was early thirties.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just going to fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if he, it's almost like based on experience, what you see, and I think that that's what happened with the cops and that's like, he saw something total, I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You have no, I, oh my gosh, not everyone's seeing what women who have gone through that seat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so going back to today, um, whatever you want to hear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but to tie it in this time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, I did look over at his mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I saw his mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we, we got in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brian's mother was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Brian's mother and two sisters.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has a father.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, what happened to the father?
[SPEAKER_00]: He has a father.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: The father, you'll see in that footage from the car when they were pulled over for whatever reason he's not there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I'm with, like, people that I've now gotten to know in the long for fifteen hours, but even people that I know, and they say, that's Brian's mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we, I happen to be sitting behind behind.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's sitting right behind him with a few daughters.
[SPEAKER_00]: What he walks in, I mean Rachel Zero motion through most of it, except that I will tell you through Kaylee Sisters.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big demand, Paxton, many of his father, but besides that, nothing except smiling at the mom and waving and sitting down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the mom and the two sisters cried at, it was the surviving roommate.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was one roommate
[SPEAKER_00]: who had someone speak for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She just couldn't be there at a blame her.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was another one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was Dylan.
[SPEAKER_00]: He spoke for herself and she was just saying clearly going through PTSD and saying I'm wondering why it wasn't me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking what I'm going to be next.
[SPEAKER_00]: People tell me I'm so strong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to live day to day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I looked over and the mom and sisters were all crying.
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes me think for actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and I can't wait for you to tell me about the court, but as the listener, I just want you to know, watching, like, I got your text, I was like, oh, let me turn this on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I put it on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm in the car, I'm listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of looking at my phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I see all the angles and it's the camera there was four angles the camera was just on him the camera was on I guess the prosecution's lawyers or whatever sitting there where you were kind of saw who was standing up but you not really and then there was another angle of him and somewhere else anyway
[SPEAKER_01]: I noticed that he didn't move.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought that was terrible and weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was hoping that he would, because I wanted to see even him brush his hair, move his, you know, like, I just wanted him to be like, oh, there and be like anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so disappointed that he didn't speak.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I know, he's a sociopath and a narcissist and all these things, I thought he would have spoken.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought he wanted me like, let me explain myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I heard it analyzed by someone and I think that that may be true.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that think of someone who's capable of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think based on what I think of my speculation that he went in there with Maddie in mind and he didn't know or didn't think because maybe it doesn't have the friends that he wasn't as clearly he was jealous of what she had, the spirit and what had you in the roommates.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we went in not knowing there'd be three others.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that he, if you're able to do that, if you're a sociopathic psychopath and able to do that, what I've heard and I agree is that maybe he's saving that for when he's in control.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wants to tell a story when he wants to tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I see, which is the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always feel because knock on where I'm not in that position to to I felt even with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kaley sister and I know she was kind of playkating on how he was on Reddit asking people things, but what stood out to me was Zana's aunt and she got up there and she said.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgive you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know how that is you forgive for yourself because you don't want to bring it away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to that and I wrote it down to ask you about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgive you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she, but she also said this, if you want to talk to anyone, I'll listen, which said to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: My number.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she wants, but she wants answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they don't want it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They all want to know because they all think like what are the last words.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember with your inventor slow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And spring break, when she doesn't come home, and you and I both have daughters around the same age, if someone did that, what I wanted over last words.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the mother just wanted answers for all those years and was like, I'll do anything just to get the answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want you in jail.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything to wear and click silver.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I tuned in, it was, and I'm not sure whose family it was still.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was before Kaley.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was family before.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were, we're not going to give him a name.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about, they were thinking all the police and the FBI.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were thinking the court.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were all very calm, cool, and collect, not giving him any attention, not giving him a name.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you get to Kaley's family.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hear the sister, like you're talking about the older sister.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was weeping in the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to make me cry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're being a master class in how you give a master class.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I said to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, here are the questions that scream in my own head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which, by the way, if it was me in that position, I would have turned in and been like, how could you do this?
[SPEAKER_01]: How could you take this person from me too?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody else that I was doing was very, like, calm, cool and collect, not even giving him a name.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, this is about truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to know the truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And here are the questions I have for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully one day he'll answer them.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was so cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think it was the mother's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, the best statement, too, was from the little sister who didn't take, who didn't come up there with the mom spoke for.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she said something about you may have gotten A's in school in class, but you're going to get big D's in prison, which I thought was hysterical.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I will say what, what that her sister did.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that family, they got together, they were like, OK, we have no choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's played out.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to get the death penalty.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's work as a team.
[SPEAKER_00]: The family's different.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to turn our backs because maybe I often think of my son and I think of the shape and they don't want to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got no Stacy the most loved that family.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't want to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't blame them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But different families feel differently, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you never know when people are going to heal.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what if I decide I need to know or I'm
[SPEAKER_00]: Fearous, fear, I need to know, and that's how I felt.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen Steve so many times in interviews, and today was the first time that I met him in person, but it was, I, I finally saw an excellent him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really did a guess when I saw it after the daughter.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the only time I kept looking over to see is there any reactionists or anything, nothing, nothing, still it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm also looking at the mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: How is that your son, Amy?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, anyway, I do not blame them, but so I digress.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when that sister was saying, which every word felt meticulous, I felt like she worked on that for a month, and it was genius, and it was
[SPEAKER_00]: basically saying what we've all heard in the news reports of how we treated his students and how he was self-important and how he felt grandiose and how he felt important and how he nitpacked and treated people and what he was so fearful of being regular, being nothing is what he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It felt like because everyone around me was looking over at her said this sister
[SPEAKER_00]: And then looking at him and it felt like a tennis match for his back of work that everyone's on the extra their seat and I promise you he was this close to reacting it you could use clenching his jaw because someone's calling him stupid and to me clearly he hates a lot of things he hates women
[SPEAKER_00]: When the men got up there and spoke, it was different.
[SPEAKER_00]: He killed what he despised, which was happiness.
[SPEAKER_00]: In my opinion, without being a psychiatrist, but it was clear to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it even may be like a slight move in the jaw or a slight move back because he doesn't move.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then anything that he does, he was affected, it worked.
[SPEAKER_00]: It worked.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then we got a ten minute break.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see Kelly's sister and father, and I went, oh my God.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, that's a master class and they seemed
[SPEAKER_00]: happy, happy, for because you're able to finally think that all the months that you have to fight your tongue.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even though he was just like, we're then, but that seemed like the first moment when people started clapping for people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it was, it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you heard a lot of people clap through out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I'm too, I'm just waiting to sign like, we're clapping.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's he actually looking at the people talking?
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a feeling like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Let, I mean, I looked over him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, my son's a nine.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was nine at one point.
[SPEAKER_00]: He must have played with cars or he must have left or he must have gone to the movies or what?
[SPEAKER_00]: But whatever he is now, whatever he is now, the sociopathic psychopath, he has nailed that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like with Delphine Richard Allen, he was like, even if it was fake, looking back and his wife upset this guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not did he let us lay to head or he ever did he ever to head never looked at the only time he looked over is when his mom walked in and he smiled at her and that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But but Kelly's father
[SPEAKER_00]: the podium at him.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I also found it fascinating.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was during Zana, her, her, her, her, her, her, somebody got up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, I want to change the conversation to Brian and what he's ruined for his life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And his parents and what they were saying is uncle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought that was super powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wondered how that hit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought that changed him.
[SPEAKER_00]: That shifted, because everyone's at the edge of their seat, and we're up all night.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a bunch of, and they shifted the feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh yeah, and you looked over.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did feel sorry for the sisters, because I remember the sisters during the search, or maybe we heard after that someone's like, wait, wait a minute, my brother, maybe the younger sister is like, has that car that they're looking for?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it him?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you think he's capable, there were some major issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: But looking over at them, their lives are over, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those two sisters and the modern they never would think.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the statement that they may not just, they're going to lose their son, their brother, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was that they're now associated.
[SPEAKER_01]: with this murder, with this disgusting loser that they call him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And forever, they will be known as being a family member of this guy and how that's going to affect him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if that seemed to affect the family.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, do you think that they still love him and they're proud of him?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's not family members that would totally cast aside their father wasn't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: because a friend of mine from the line.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I met him at Prime Pond and he's a newspaper guy and he's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just said, that's not the daddy.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's no, I think it's representation either.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was someone who wasn't making a move.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's an older gentleman.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that kind of the dad.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you could tell that they were the sisters and the mother and the mother had a hearing aid in and she was
[SPEAKER_00]: very upset during a lot of the victim impact statements seeing her son just threw out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all he would do is look over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give a smile in a way to his mom, and that, that was it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that people are fascinated, and I am too, and we'll continue to be fascinated by this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's looking at someone like that, even like a Scott Peterson or Chris Watts.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, someone who doesn't look like a monster, they rarely do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he does now, but I think if back then, when this happened, do you just say, oh, he's awkward, he's smart, he's whatever, there are no warning signs.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: How would you ever know that that guy, I think about my college experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: I live with three other girls.
[SPEAKER_00]: We left our door open.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were people in and out all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that could happen to anyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my, what I feel like was so devastating to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can't pick really one over the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: But who I think needs the most help right now is the surviving roommates.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and also, you know, what is confusing me is that I feel like I've been hearing chatter that like people are almost angry with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, they were for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're their survivor guilt has got to be terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: But why would anybody blame them or be mad at them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think in much
[SPEAKER_00]: Me immediately, I understood the name and wake up.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you go to a college, if you go to college and you're out and you're drinking and you're like, I don't know, it's not like you're in your thirties and you're at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone has jobs, we're going to have to get up early.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, they blame them because they wanted answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get that because of what I saw in Delphi.
[SPEAKER_00]: You only release certain things, there's gag orders.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's the speculation and then the conspiracy theories and then the clicks and then not everyone's like that, there were some literature and the questions and speaking of doubt, I want to say this which it just shows today was looking at Twitter and I saw
[SPEAKER_00]: Kim Goldman, Ron Goldman sister, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for airing the victim impact statement that I retweeted it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because it matters to show that the pain never goes away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Kelsey right after said to me, let me sister and Delphi said, if you
[SPEAKER_00]: See any of the families after this tell them I said my love and I said oh my gosh, because we're friends We've known to the wife and I said oh my gosh, Kaley sister and she said I have a soft spot for any sibling because nobody knows what Kelsey's going through nobody know except
[SPEAKER_00]: Lily Cister, except Kim Goldman, except people who are gutted by the loss of their sibling that won't come back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it was important, and it means something.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does, and I saw that in Delphi.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the first victim impact statement court hearing that I've gone to, and it's also called sentencing, but
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw how much that helped.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw Libby's cousin Josh, who was so same age.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, it is twenty's.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I bring it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, there's a special place in hell for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It matters.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like what you would think if it's not that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when heard someone you love, like what we would say to them, what you would feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the canless sister mastered it.
[SPEAKER_01]: master.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, listen, it was it had me in tears.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said all that they got to the second thought that you, you would want it to say, but she did it in such a complex, collect way.
[SPEAKER_01]: had she had mastered it because she had clearly worked on it for a long time, and every word was so well articulated.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, you know, just being in my car, I was crying.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was shocked that a lot of these people had done so much work on this that they were not up there blabbering, a blabbering mess.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one guy I do remember, I think it was at Kaylee's dad, her blood father or biological father would struggled with addiction and that was that was Maddie's body.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, got up there and that made me really sad and made me worried for him because he talked about how she was like the only good thing in his life and he had struggled with addiction and I wouldn't be surprised if
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's not here very long because this has got to be so traumatizing to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he had, you know, worked on his addiction before, this is going to be a good reason to fall back into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what does he have to live for?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this poor guy, it made me really sad for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought about him a lot today.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, how's it?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're absolutely right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like I do feel like the families
[SPEAKER_00]: together because that they will help them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he'll get that support to say, hey, we're all hurting.
[SPEAKER_00]: You men, even men can talk to us and say, they don't want to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're hurting that bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt that I was saying it's father because there's so much love.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's stepfather's situations as there is.
[SPEAKER_00]: My daughter is stepfather.
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband, Jeff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a no sleep too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was I think that his father said it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I always said I almost stopped by that night.
[SPEAKER_00]: I almost went by the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we claimed to end to say lock the door or went there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like if I went there, what would have happened or could I've done this or could I've done that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and I think
[SPEAKER_00]: obviously I would want answers and I wonder if it's that elaborate or that entailed like was he stalking them and would that make a like let's say he was I think he just about clearly disguises women and was stalking maybe Maddie but I don't know for how long and if we knew it was long I don't
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the why fills in some blanks that.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_01]: any platform to this guy to have any answers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope he is just destroyed and prison, but I do hope the family gets an answer of why because even if it doesn't matter, I mean, it doesn't matter at this point because they're gone and it's not going to change anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to hear the last word.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to hear why he did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just brings a little bit of no and even as someone who went through
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my, as you know, I mean, my fiance being murdered by terrorists, if I ever got to find out his last moments, what he went through.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and not eleven for those who don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but those last moments of what he went through.
[SPEAKER_01]: It matters, because for six months, I mean, I knew he was dead, but they didn't actually call me for six months and say, we found his body now.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's officially dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the most important thing for me, I need to know the cause of death.
[SPEAKER_01]: I needed to know if he was burned.
[SPEAKER_01]: I needed to know what it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was blunt force trauma.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that gave me solace to know he fell with the building, something hit him.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like he was burned and he was hurting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just say that that knowing that makes it I just learned something so important for me that I would have never understood without telling that that makes sense that because I always wondered like why
[SPEAKER_00]: with that help, but it would because you want to know.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just love this person.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just love this person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Almost like you were there with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, I could at least, I could beat your witness for that moment and know what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think if I were the family to me, that would be really important.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I mean, I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get why some of them said you're nothing to me and then you hear that aunt says, Anna's aunt, I say, I get my number.
[SPEAKER_01]: Call me if you're ready to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because I want it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be your friend and I've forgiven you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope to God.
[SPEAKER_01]: He takes her up on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think maybe he'll have all the time of the world to do so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope so too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what also stood out to me was the Xana's dad on the flight here.
[SPEAKER_00]: said he heard a little girl say dad dad dad dad he heard them as voice I mean it's just not it's it's a loss he killed four kids at the tip like who are happy think of that age range like you're happy and they loved each other and they were kind kids and they came from different backgrounds and they had different experiences but they all loved each other and this evil
[SPEAKER_00]: person comes in.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do feel like with Kelly's father that he said he must fit the wrong family.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was taking notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is when the moment turned in the courtroom for sure from an outsider.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least that's when I was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: So did some show up because maybe I just wasn't online for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did someone show up from everyone's family was Ethan's family represented?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, Ethan Chapman's family was not.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Stacey Chapman, I met, it happened, it was a little less than a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I reached out to her, we connected on Instagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I invited her to cry out of my heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I thought, this is the only reason I invited her, because it sounds like if you're not familiar with crime, it sounds weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's, I knew, based on my experience, their meeting, the family said, Delphan, that she would heal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know heal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did that, and who might have said, who's healing?
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I thought was, oh, if she could meet Becky, because I saw an interview and I'm going to, if she could meet Becky, this would be good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if she could meet Kelsey, this might help.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, I'm so tired.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got to know her and she said, like, she wasn't able to share, she'd go to the crime.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's like, we love our son and like, we don't want to see you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for her family and it's different than Kaley's family, it's like, we don't want to get burned.
[SPEAKER_00]: We, it will never bring our son back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we want to heal separately and that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that everyone's different and you shouldn't all be tied together with the same process.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and she posted and I put it on Instagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, a picture of her son.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks to be that like six, even with like this doing this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't have anyone even write something and say something.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just well, they did go to the plea.
[SPEAKER_00]: agreement.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the plea deal with hearing which happened recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was that was a Stacey her husband and Ethan was a triplet and so it's mazy and hunter and Ethan and they recently graduated and I remember I reached out to Stacey and I just said how are you thinking about you and she showed me the invitation of her kids graduation party.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't and when I didn't meet her and I got to know her and my husband came with me to that crime phone and really got to know Stacey and it's like I really we texted throughout the years and she just said that
[SPEAKER_00]: She realized, she said, of course, it was devastation for like a few months, but she had to be a mom to her other two kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I never even thought of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: That she couldn't just like give up and you would tell what they remind me of.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I was listening today with Candle's parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I want them on my side for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you get to know them as different families.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with e-consfamily, it's the family we want to go to for Christmas.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: They like the kids love each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: The last text that Ethan wrote his
[SPEAKER_00]: Their triplets hunter is like, and even mazy, like, hey, you're coming over.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was hours before.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, no, I'm gonna stay here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was stood out to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's why I reached out to Stacey.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was an interview that she did with someone local in Indiana.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she told the reporter, she said, me and my husband dropped our kids off, a college.
[SPEAKER_00]: They all went to the same college.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we looked up and we high thought together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're great kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: We did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and that is what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: They got together and, oh, a recent documentary that's out that I watched.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's on Amazon Prime.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was heartbreaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: The father, Ethan's father, says, you know, we were on our way with his ashes to the burial like a grave site.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was cold and it was just raining and he's like, we can't do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't leave him there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's at leave him there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, so he's in his room.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when one of us passes, then he'll be with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like heart, your heart's ripped out of your chest and it's like whatever you guys can do to survive and however you decide as a fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: So because I think they just didn't want to see him again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that hearing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was useless to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and people can't understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you wonder to lose a child and how you would feel and so everybody obviously agrees totally differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I shouldn't be hysterically crying, but it's different being in there and seeing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there was a woman next to me, I will say this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of nice people and she said to me, you know, I've been through a lot of trauma in my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: I see Kelly's sister, and I feel like I can get through what I can get through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, you just explained, everyone's always asked me, but the true crime draw is you just explained it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It gives women, I think, strength.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really do, like, if you can get through this, then I can get through this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I connect with you on this, then you can connect with me through this.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the human condition, but I think with crime, it exists.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, wait a minute, they can get through this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then, oh my gosh, and maybe that's why I connected, if I were to be honest, why I wish I had to stay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, why is around myself?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like why I feel good about doing that?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, they can get through this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I told him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the good part about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, today, Ryan Coberger was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences for the twenty-twenty-two fatal stabings of four young kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel like this ties it up in a bow and it's over and people are moving on and he's getting locked up and the keys are getting thrown away and it's over or do you see that there's going to be a little bit more that happens with this case?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I feel like he's not, and it was weird hearing him talk because he was asked if he would like to say anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, respectfully, no, I really, but no, I don't, I think that the families are still some of the families going to want to know why, and I think
[SPEAKER_00]: He maybe did this for the exact reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to listen again to Kelly's sister statement him because everything she said was right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like exactly what he did and why.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think there's so many questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, why did you do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think it's over, but I feel like they were able to finally, because this happened in November, twenty twenty two.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even that picture we all see of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's Maddie on someone shoulders and so they're all together.
[SPEAKER_00]: They it was twelve hours later that murder's happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious to how, and I think you know the answer, how he's able to survive in prison.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's gonna survive just fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's just cold.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't feel like it's fake.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just nothing there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's odd.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's odd.
[SPEAKER_00]: See.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess we will hear what happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess they said something about how we had four, five days, something like that in case he wanted to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess he waived his right to appeal, but he had four, five days to do something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it is by law, a constitutional right, and they quote a case law.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I can't quote, but it's no matter what you have the right even to appeal a guilty firm.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't seem doing any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I think it daps a well on prison, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like the bunnies who as long as they get to talk about himself, but he's a little odd.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I necessarily believe or maybe I just heard this through the various reports that he was in itself because the latest documentary show he would go up to women and say, like, hey, do you want to go hiking or do you want to go out?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel like he was just like, and I think that's the fascination.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: That's always the question we ask nature and nurture and how is this person made?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's like, what happens?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a lot of guys that get rejected.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, and they don't turn into psychopathic murderers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, what was he jealous of?
[SPEAKER_00]: Were there signs?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I want to know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be interesting to see if a documentary, I mean, obviously someone's going to make a documentary.
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be interesting to see if they get his parents to talk, which, by the way, is the only way that they should make a legitimate documentary to see what he was like as a kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: What the parents think, and then if it'll be interesting to see if he tries to talk from prison and gives the why.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if he ends up speaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there are ones, as you know, with the
[SPEAKER_00]: There are ones from the victims standpoint, and it just tells a story of who they were, but right, from his story, they have to tell more than just what happened that night.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've done, you know, an impact in our heads that he's just the cycling Rachel, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the sister who knows.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'd like you know more about your siblings and your parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like what did you see?
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to know from her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear from her because when they were looking for a hit, make a model of the car, she was saying, could it be him?
[SPEAKER_00]: She said that to her family.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you say that, you know, like tell us what you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know that's what I want to hear from her.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking over at them.
[SPEAKER_00]: and they look normal and they're like, what did you see, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right, amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's amazing that you're always at these fascinating, you know, courthouse hearings that you're following these trials so intimately that you get to know the parents.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when are you heading back and what is your next trial that you or what is your next case?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm heading back tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm heading back tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no set trial that I'm going to
[SPEAKER_00]: As a be up that there are cases so there is crime con and that's happening in September that I'll be at it's in Colorado this year and it's a dealt by panel with me to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was sound guilty and it's more of the Crown and Delphi, I'm sorry, in Colorado that wants to hear from them because they followed and helped, right, even before I knew the families.
[SPEAKER_00]: They went to the point.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, now that that case was closed, do you believe it was handled properly in the person that's in jail is the person?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, a hundred and ten percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if, but I understand, I do understand the questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I absent a hundred percent because there was a gag order.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the perfect storm of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't tell this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I understand how it may have been perceived.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if someone's on the fence about it,
[SPEAKER_00]: they should watch, come to GrandCon.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what other stories are you following that you're fascinated with?
[SPEAKER_00]: It is funny, it's not funny, but it's that I always feel like you can kind of see where this is going, but I feel like there's some cases that all the people will always be fascinated with.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the John B. Ramsey.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the Maddie McKan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the kind of unsolved.
[SPEAKER_00]: What could it have been that person in the house?
[SPEAKER_00]: Could it have been that?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the mystery that keeps people going to the unsolved crimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: The unsolved crimes of where people think some family has it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how could that happen to them?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you hear, like, it looks like that at all or whatever that means.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was, I was so, those are the cases.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Shannon walks case.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know, I'm so glad that finally they figured out it was him, but that it was Chris, I guess this is his name, the husband.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it seems to always be the husband, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or the wife killing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, and I want to say you never get away with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just get divorced.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like bizarre.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always joke with my, I'm engaged now, and I'm always joke with my all the on say that, you know, you know, until I'm in the will, don't think that I'm going to try and kill you, but once I am, you should check for the anti freeze levels, and then right, because that's our world that we're like, it happened and you're thinking just
[SPEAKER_00]: What's happening and it's always the anti-free's in the in the drink at night or you know, whatever or the idea and it's bizarre yeah and it's but and as a society we don't forget any of it but we're almost like okay that's an episode of date line but when and going back to like I don't when it's four college kids for no reason like there's no animal you're just killing joy because he
[SPEAKER_00]: women or you hate happiness.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's something is a society we want to figure out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if we ever do.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I hope we talks just what you said.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope we take serve on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Susan, we always appreciate you being on the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: We always appreciate pretty much listening to your, um, takes on everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can watch and listen to Susan Hendrix on her new show on YouTube called headline grant.
[SPEAKER_00]: New headline grant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, and it's out every week.
[SPEAKER_01]: And where else can people find you if they want to get a hold of you or look at your stuff and tell them about your book?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm more to find my daughter, but I'm a TikTok Instagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: X. You name it on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And your book where name the book and where folk get it down the hill.
[SPEAKER_00]: My descent to the double murder in Delphi.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a mouthful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they can get it anywhere they get books.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: On everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Susan, thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure we all have you come on during the next trial.
[SPEAKER_01]: If the men and his brothers get released.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because I knew them from New Jersey.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's bizarre, but one of them went to high school with my sister in Princeton.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, oh, no way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be there.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll have to have you on for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for listening to Ms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five-star rating and review.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash Ms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood with Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out email us at info, Ms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood podcast at gmail.com that's spelled MISS understood?
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much and I'll see you next time.