David Hayter (Metal Gear Solid, X-Men)

<v Speaker 1>How you doing out there? It's me Tigger. I am
<v Speaker 1>Duc Wing Duck. It's me Bunkers keep bobcat. All right, y'all?
<v Speaker 2>Did it great?
<v Speaker 1>Your favorite firefly you desire? Hold old knock guy. My
<v Speaker 1>name is Jim Cummings and welcome to tuned In. Hey, everybody,
<v Speaker 1>welcome back. Are you kidding me? This is a world
<v Speaker 1>famous episode of Tuned In with Jim Cummings because we
<v Speaker 1>have none other than David Hayter. Ladies and gentlemen, let's
<v Speaker 1>hear it. Well, I'm on down.
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for having me.
<v Speaker 1>Jim.
<v Speaker 3>It's nice to see you again.
<v Speaker 1>It's very nice to see you again.
<v Speaker 4>Here.
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna just keep clicking. I'm gonna play catch with
<v Speaker 1>this microphone here obviously. But we know each other from conventions,
<v Speaker 1>from comic cons and the occasional panel there. But the
<v Speaker 1>world knows you and in a very entirely different, completely
<v Speaker 1>different realm. No funny voices involved, necessarily, but a lot
<v Speaker 1>of on a writing involved. Yes, And would you say
<v Speaker 1>that is what is your first passion?
<v Speaker 4>Oh?
<v Speaker 3>What's my first passion? My first passion was acting. That's
<v Speaker 3>that's what got me into this whole thing. I started
<v Speaker 3>writing when I was about twelve years old. Started acting
<v Speaker 3>when I was nine. Wow, I started writing when I
<v Speaker 3>was twelve. But I never I never had any concept
<v Speaker 3>of how you get writing work. Acting made sense to me,
<v Speaker 3>just you go and do you read your things whatever.
<v Speaker 3>But to me, you know, the scripts can come down
<v Speaker 3>from the gods, and I was like, I don't know
<v Speaker 3>how who's creating this, how they get this work or whatever.
<v Speaker 3>So I never really pursued it, and then I just
<v Speaker 3>sort of fell into it. But I kept writing, and yes,
<v Speaker 3>you did fell into the business professionally in nineteen ninety nine.
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, so it was ninety nine and the first
<v Speaker 1>thing out of the gate was it? It was X Men.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was my first paid writing job.
<v Speaker 4>Okay, how does that come about? How do you go
<v Speaker 4>from nothing to unrotting? The X Men film the super Bowl?
<v Speaker 1>It's it's you went from the sandlot to the super Bowl,
<v Speaker 1>that's right, with no practice.
<v Speaker 3>It's a very strange, wild Hollywood story. I had produced
<v Speaker 3>and starred in a little quarter million dollar film in
<v Speaker 3>nineteen ninety seven, and that was executive produced by Brian Singer,
<v Speaker 3>who eventually went on to direct X Men. He wro
<v Speaker 3>directed Usual Suspect.
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, and which.
<v Speaker 3>Won a couple of Academy Awards, and I had known
<v Speaker 3>him before all of that occurred. And then and then
<v Speaker 3>the deal for my little film fell apart, and I
<v Speaker 3>was broke, and so I called Brian and asked if
<v Speaker 3>I could have a job on his next movie, you know,
<v Speaker 3>answering the Phones or something. So I got hired to
<v Speaker 3>dance of the Phones on X Men and Brian complaining
<v Speaker 3>to me because we you know, we had made a
<v Speaker 3>film together, so he knew I was a filmmaker. And
<v Speaker 3>he kept saying, bye, you know the script is, you know,
<v Speaker 3>it's not good, and people don't nobody knows the x Men,
<v Speaker 3>and I don't know how to achieve what I want
<v Speaker 3>to achieve. And I said, well, I know the x Men.
<v Speaker 3>I grew up with the comic books and all that,
<v Speaker 3>and you know these you know, I knew those characters
<v Speaker 3>like they were family. And so I said, well, why
<v Speaker 3>do you have a scene where Cyclops runs into Wolverine
<v Speaker 3>on the Mansion grounds and he says this, and he
<v Speaker 3>says this, and he says this, and that'll solve your
<v Speaker 3>problem for you. And Brian said, good, go write that
<v Speaker 3>for me, and I thought he was kidding because it
<v Speaker 3>wasn't legal. I wasn't in the writers Guild, you know,
<v Speaker 3>I certainly wasn't getting paid. So I wrote the scene.
<v Speaker 3>He put it in the movie, and then he started
<v Speaker 3>having and then he would he'd be at the end
<v Speaker 3>of the day. I'd answer the phones all day. At
<v Speaker 3>the end of the day, he'd say, all right, take
<v Speaker 3>a look at this scene and make this better.
<v Speaker 1>Wow.
<v Speaker 3>So, by the time the studio found out I had
<v Speaker 3>written rewritten about fifty some odd percent of the script,
<v Speaker 3>they were in a legal bind and they had to
<v Speaker 3>make a deal with me. So they paid me thirty
<v Speaker 3>five thousand dollars, which is the guild minimum rewrite fee.
<v Speaker 3>And basically I worked on the film for thirteen months,
<v Speaker 3>went up to Canada, I was on set. I was
<v Speaker 3>there for all the casting, I was there for all
<v Speaker 3>the shooting.
<v Speaker 1>Wow.
<v Speaker 3>Wrote about one hundred and fifty drafts of the script,
<v Speaker 3>and Yeah, got sole credit. And then my friend Chris mccuori,
<v Speaker 3>who had been the writer on the film before me,
<v Speaker 3>the Academy Award winner for Usual Suspects, called me up
<v Speaker 3>and he said, do you realize you are the most
<v Speaker 3>successful first time screenwriter in film history, and that I
<v Speaker 3>don't know if that's still okay. All by chance, I
<v Speaker 3>literally fell ass backwards into it and here we are.
<v Speaker 1>It worked, yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah in the movie, you know, and people didn't didn't
<v Speaker 3>think it was going.
<v Speaker 4>To be good. This is pre MCU so oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Nobody thought that any thing that wasn't Batman or Superman
<v Speaker 3>or spider Man could work.
<v Speaker 4>That's the thing.
<v Speaker 3>And we had eleven superpowered main characters.
<v Speaker 1>And and yeah, uh so I didn't even think of it.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah, it's and so while they had different
<v Speaker 3>powers and different names and this and that and and
<v Speaker 3>just setting up this weird world and so nobody really
<v Speaker 3>had a lot of confidence in it. But I, being
<v Speaker 3>a fan of the comics, yeah, I was like, no,
<v Speaker 3>this is this is a great world. It's it's an
<v Speaker 3>amazing place to be and and uh stan Lee, yeah yeah,
<v Speaker 3>So that love of the comic books came through in
<v Speaker 3>the movies and they did pretty well.
<v Speaker 4>And then I, well, it's a credit to you because
<v Speaker 4>with Avengers, we had all these films setting up building
<v Speaker 4>to that one. With them all in the same one,
<v Speaker 4>you had nothing. You were just you were making Avenges
<v Speaker 4>from the beginning.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, yeah, and if you look at the first movie,
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it really is all set up. It's just
<v Speaker 3>all describing what this world is. They are, It's a
<v Speaker 3>very simple story.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know how they got to be what they are? Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>all that stuff for a while.
<v Speaker 3>But that's how it happened. It was it was crazy.
<v Speaker 4>You have said that the eleven main characters all had
<v Speaker 4>to have their own journey, as you were talking about
<v Speaker 4>before their own story. Which journey did you struggle the
<v Speaker 4>most to incorporate into that world?
<v Speaker 3>Well, I don't know that they all had their own journey.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, Toad is just a Toad guy. And Sabretooth
<v Speaker 3>I didn't even know that Sabretooth had eventually been revealed
<v Speaker 3>to be Logan's brother, Wolverine's brother. I didn't know that
<v Speaker 3>at all, So we didn't incorporate any of that. You didn't, no,
<v Speaker 3>I know, I know. I'm sure the younger, younger X
<v Speaker 3>Men friends are probably outraged. But for the X Men, well,
<v Speaker 3>basically what I did was I just want to make
<v Speaker 3>sure each character had, you know, and Magneto, that each
<v Speaker 3>character had a beginning, in the middle and an end
<v Speaker 3>no matter what. You know, how big or small, those
<v Speaker 3>things were. So what I did was I did a
<v Speaker 3>global search through the script for just the character's name
<v Speaker 3>saying dialogue, and I went through all of Cyclopsis dialogue,
<v Speaker 3>all of Storm's dialogue, all the Jeenes dialogue, to make
<v Speaker 3>sure that they at least had you know, some sort
<v Speaker 3>of growth, some sort of movement through the story. And
<v Speaker 3>you know, apart from it all being difficult, I don't
<v Speaker 3>remember anything being specifically harder than others. The hardest thing
<v Speaker 3>was we want a Beast in the movie, but we
<v Speaker 3>couldn't afford to have him do any action because he's
<v Speaker 3>a big blue creature. So we kept writing that he
<v Speaker 3>would break his leg before the third act action and
<v Speaker 3>then eventually we're like, this is stupid. If we can't
<v Speaker 3>use him, then yeah, then you know what's the point.
<v Speaker 3>And so poor Beast got cut from the movie.
<v Speaker 1>And that was based on just his inability to you
<v Speaker 1>couldn't write for the or didn't want to or no, no, no,
<v Speaker 1>no no.
<v Speaker 3>I wrote a big sequence where they you know, they
<v Speaker 3>go to the Statue of Liberty, and so I had
<v Speaker 3>a whole sequence where he had a big battle inside
<v Speaker 3>the statue where the where the staircases are and all
<v Speaker 3>that stuff that he'd be swinging around and fighting with
<v Speaker 3>evil mutants and whatnot. But that was so expensive to
<v Speaker 3>to Oh you know, we didn't even create that set,
<v Speaker 3>so it would have been just for him.
<v Speaker 4>You know.
<v Speaker 3>CG was not in a place at that time where
<v Speaker 3>you could do like a big monkey type guy swinging around,
<v Speaker 3>So so it just went away. At one point we
<v Speaker 3>had Jim Hansen, Jim Henson's company bidding to build a
<v Speaker 3>beast for us, which would have been really cool. Wow,
<v Speaker 3>but again, you know, putting him up on wires and
<v Speaker 3>making him do acrobatics was just not within our budget range.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and CG. I wasn't really quiet there yet, was it.
<v Speaker 1>No? I mean no, it was.
<v Speaker 3>It was okay for doing like hard surfaces, airplanes and
<v Speaker 3>rocks and stuff like that, but you couldn't do, you know,
<v Speaker 3>any living creature look like crap at that point.
<v Speaker 4>I have seen an interview where you said that a
<v Speaker 4>lot of the actors and it didn't know who you were.
<v Speaker 4>Some people from the studio didn't necessarily once you around that.
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, what what was that like?
<v Speaker 4>And do you ever call the moment where you sort
<v Speaker 4>of felt like you'd earned the trust of the people
<v Speaker 4>working there.
<v Speaker 3>I felt I did. I don't think they ever felt
<v Speaker 3>I did. You know, yeah, they were I was just
<v Speaker 3>the phone answer guy to to them. You know, I
<v Speaker 3>had I had been in a few movies and that
<v Speaker 3>they'd never heard of, and I had produced and starred
<v Speaker 3>in a movie that they'd never heard of. So, you know,
<v Speaker 3>there's they call it breaking into Hollywood because you know,
<v Speaker 3>there comes a point where your name goes on the
<v Speaker 3>A list. There's literal lists that get given out for writers,
<v Speaker 3>for actors, whatever, and breaking in means you end up
<v Speaker 3>on these lists, and it's very you know, there's a
<v Speaker 3>there's a sense of ownership over Hollywood by studio executives
<v Speaker 3>and whatnot, and if they don't feel you deserve to
<v Speaker 3>be there, they're very resentful about that. I thought once
<v Speaker 3>the movie opened and made you know, four hundred million
<v Speaker 3>dollars or whatever, that I'd be like, Oh, now they'll
<v Speaker 3>really respect me, you would think, But that that wasn't
<v Speaker 3>the case. I Mean, they still the hired me to
<v Speaker 3>write X Men too, but they were still just as
<v Speaker 3>vicious and just as mistrustful as they had been.
<v Speaker 4>Before in what way, So you would pitch something and
<v Speaker 4>they wouldn't agree with you. What was in what way
<v Speaker 4>would they know?
<v Speaker 3>No, it wasn't that if I pitched something and it
<v Speaker 3>was good, they would recognize it and they would they
<v Speaker 3>would back it. It was really more a matter of
<v Speaker 3>just how insulting the deals were and their business affairs people,
<v Speaker 3>the people that make your deal were just so dismissive
<v Speaker 3>and rude.
<v Speaker 1>And I think I know those guys.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean it was just they were just hostile
<v Speaker 3>for no reason. And I, you know, I just sort
<v Speaker 3>of took that as well. This is what it's like
<v Speaker 3>working on the big movies. Now, I've since worked on
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of big movies and it's not always like that,
<v Speaker 3>but it is always stressful, and it is always, you know,
<v Speaker 3>you have to prove yourself again and again and again.
<v Speaker 3>And the fact that I came out of nowhere it
<v Speaker 3>made them all very nervous. I mean, look, you know,
<v Speaker 3>from their respective they have to justify to their shareholders. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>why the phone answer guy is writing their eighty million
<v Speaker 3>dollar film, right, you know, as opposed to Josh Whedon
<v Speaker 3>or Chris McCrory or these writers. So I understood it
<v Speaker 3>to a certain extent, but it was it was pretty unpleasant.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you know, was a case of maybe just toll
<v Speaker 4>poppy scene drum as well as how dad this guy does.
<v Speaker 4>He hasn't sort of had to go through the hot
<v Speaker 4>yahs and prove himself from a roting perspective. He's just
<v Speaker 4>been given this massive opportunity.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, that's exactly right, that's exactly right. They want
<v Speaker 3>you to they want you to have paid your dues,
<v Speaker 3>and they want other studios to have hired you first.
<v Speaker 3>So nobody wants to be the first person to hire
<v Speaker 3>an unknown writer and I and I totally get that. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>but I thought, you know, they'd be like, oh my god,
<v Speaker 3>we love this this scene, you know, and they'd say, well,
<v Speaker 3>you know who wrote this?
<v Speaker 1>Once it worked? It worked I did, and you would think, yeah.
<v Speaker 3>They'd be like, oh okay, well fue. Yeah, they grudgingly
<v Speaker 3>put it in the movie and grudgingly spend all the
<v Speaker 3>money that they made off of my scenes, right right right, Well,
<v Speaker 3>not that I'm complaining, I mean I am a little bit,
<v Speaker 3>but but it all worked out.
<v Speaker 1>Well, it worked out and came out in the wash.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I and I just said, look, don't get
<v Speaker 3>your ego involved. Just you know, this is the opportunity
<v Speaker 3>of a lifetime. Put your head down, work as hard
<v Speaker 3>as you can, take all the abuse, and don't you know,
<v Speaker 3>just let it roll off.
<v Speaker 1>And let it roll off your back and then roll
<v Speaker 1>into the next one. Yeah, yeah, that's perfect.
<v Speaker 3>That was it, you know, because getting your ego involved,
<v Speaker 3>especially when you're starting out, will kill you. You know,
<v Speaker 3>people will be like, who do you think you are?
<v Speaker 3>And they won't hire you and there you know, there
<v Speaker 3>are certain gatekeepers to the business in acting and right,
<v Speaker 3>oh yeah, that you have to appease, whether your ego
<v Speaker 3>likes it or not. So you know, best to just
<v Speaker 3>sort of look at it all as a as a game,
<v Speaker 3>and you know, try to be smart, try not to
<v Speaker 3>take it personally, try not to let it, you know,
<v Speaker 3>break you down inside.
<v Speaker 1>Mm hm right, wow, well good for you.
<v Speaker 4>Do you think the MCU exists if you didn't rock
<v Speaker 4>this film the way you didn't has such a success?
<v Speaker 3>Do I think that?
<v Speaker 1>Well?
<v Speaker 3>I mean, obviously the X Men films led the way
<v Speaker 3>towards the MCU as it is, but I also feel
<v Speaker 3>like there were so many amazing untapped stories in there.
<v Speaker 3>I think all of it, you know, me, Kevin Faigi,
<v Speaker 3>Tom DeSanto. You know, the people that were real comic
<v Speaker 3>book fans knew that there were you know, sixty seventy
<v Speaker 3>years worth of storieselievable that were amazing that weren't being
<v Speaker 3>exploited for movies. And with CG coming into its own,
<v Speaker 3>we were getting to a point where we could make
<v Speaker 3>Iron Man or the Hulk or whatever, which I worked
<v Speaker 3>with both of those, and so I think there would
<v Speaker 3>have been an MCU eventually, you know, if the stars
<v Speaker 3>had come together differently, But certainly we opened the doors
<v Speaker 3>for that and made the studios very confident that other
<v Speaker 3>comic book characters could could be successful in the movies.
<v Speaker 4>All in the one film.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, well yeah, I mean, and you know, I
<v Speaker 3>said to Tom Rothman, who was the president of Fox.
<v Speaker 3>I was like, look, there's there's fifty x men imprint
<v Speaker 3>comic books out there every month, like all over the world.
<v Speaker 3>Like we should have a built in you know, enormous
<v Speaker 3>built in audience.
<v Speaker 1>Built in audience.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, And he said, he said, David, the comic
<v Speaker 3>book fans will be done by ten pm Friday night,
<v Speaker 3>and we have to get everybody else. So that kind
<v Speaker 3>of put it in perspective for me.
<v Speaker 1>Well that's interesting.
<v Speaker 4>Do you agree with that perspective?
<v Speaker 3>Well, he's the president's studio. I figured you had to
<v Speaker 3>have done some restart. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know,
<v Speaker 3>when you really think about it, the number of people
<v Speaker 3>who see movies versus the number of people who read
<v Speaker 3>anything is far greater numbers. So yeah, it made sense
<v Speaker 3>to me. But I did feel like there was a big,
<v Speaker 3>you know, an underground base of fans that that would
<v Speaker 3>turn out for the movie and would bring, you know,
<v Speaker 3>friends and girlfriends. Well they wouldn't have girlfriends, but you know,
<v Speaker 3>friends and relatives and whatnot to their comic book movies
<v Speaker 3>to see the characters they've always loved.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, and girls aren't going anyway with themselves.
<v Speaker 3>Well well you know, but the thing is we had
<v Speaker 3>we had really kick ass women characters which came from
<v Speaker 3>the comic book.
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's true.
<v Speaker 3>And so it was really, you know, I mean a
<v Speaker 3>personal goal of mine to make sure that the girls
<v Speaker 3>would go and go, oh my god, I could be
<v Speaker 3>an X man.
<v Speaker 1>I could you know, that could be pretty pretty bodacious.
<v Speaker 3>She was pretty awesome and Jeane and Mystique is amazing,
<v Speaker 3>Like Mystique.
<v Speaker 4>Mistake was the big one for me.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and she had people forget she had one line
<v Speaker 3>in the first film and then became like a lynchpin
<v Speaker 3>of the whole series.
<v Speaker 1>So wow, yeah, I didn't.
<v Speaker 4>As you said earlier, you know, we had Batman and
<v Speaker 4>Spider Man and Superman. It was always Men Men Wonder Woman,
<v Speaker 4>but Wonder Woman had had her own film at that point.
<v Speaker 3>You know, no, just the TV show in the seventies.
<v Speaker 3>And in fact, you know, after X Men, I was
<v Speaker 3>hatched to direct, write, and direct the Black Widow movie
<v Speaker 3>and that's right, yeah, after her. Yeah, I named my
<v Speaker 3>daughter after forced them to make the movie, but they didn't,
<v Speaker 3>and that one we were ready to shoot. And then
<v Speaker 3>in one weekend, Eon Flux and Blood Rain and Ultra
<v Speaker 3>Violet came out in the same weekend and they all failed.
<v Speaker 3>And so the Lionsgate was like, oh, you know, female
<v Speaker 3>action movies don't work, Female superhero movies don't work, and
<v Speaker 3>so you know, that knocked us back another decade or so,
<v Speaker 3>which was a shame.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that is a shame.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well, Jim, you're a big comic book guy, aren't you.
<v Speaker 4>Love You love collecting comics, don't you, Jim?
<v Speaker 1>Oh, god. Yeah, yep. Still I still go over to
<v Speaker 1>Burbank and hit up the comics, you know, every couple
<v Speaker 1>of weeks.
<v Speaker 3>What are your favorites?
<v Speaker 1>Well, spider Man, yeah, Punisher, yeah, x Men yeap. X
<v Speaker 1>Men are way up there. Always love Wolverine, Deadpool, he's working,
<v Speaker 1>you know, gosh, and some Batman.
<v Speaker 3>Oh I was Yeah, it was a huge Batman.
<v Speaker 1>Huge Batman. Yeah. There's like eight Batman titles out there now, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>right now.
<v Speaker 2>Did you guys get a chance to see Deadpool and Wolverine?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, have you seen it?
<v Speaker 1>Ye?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and they do. They do this really amazing tribute
<v Speaker 3>to the Fox X Men era, and so all of
<v Speaker 3>those behind the scenes clips from X Men one. I
<v Speaker 3>am standing, like literally right off camera watching all that happens.
<v Speaker 3>So it was really emotional watching.
<v Speaker 1>That's nice.
<v Speaker 3>It was really cool.
<v Speaker 1>Well that's good to know.
<v Speaker 3>Yeaheah, I loved it.
<v Speaker 1>Good. Now I'm gonna look for it, look for your shadow. Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>I might be in the footage.
<v Speaker 1>I didn't.
<v Speaker 3>I didn't spot myself, but yeah, I am there for.
<v Speaker 2>The entire It was emotional, wasn't. I wasn't even involved
<v Speaker 2>with the project, but I felt the same way because
<v Speaker 2>to me, like the X Men. To me, it was
<v Speaker 2>like x Men x two, Iron Man. That was kind
<v Speaker 2>of like the impetus of like the new aneration of Superheroes.
<v Speaker 2>You know, it changed like the Batman forevers and like
<v Speaker 2>you know, that was kind of like a different it
<v Speaker 2>was just a different feel to those movies.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well we decided and I think that this really
<v Speaker 3>did help kick off the MCU that.
<v Speaker 4>We didn't.
<v Speaker 1>Well.
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to make a com book movie because I
<v Speaker 3>knew how cool comic books were, but Brian Singer didn't
<v Speaker 3>read comic books, and he was like, no, we're just
<v Speaker 3>making a real movie and an actual action movie with
<v Speaker 3>real characters, and if it doesn't feel real, we're not
<v Speaker 3>doing it. And so that really, you know, taking it
<v Speaker 3>seriously like that said, you know, spoke to the fans
<v Speaker 3>and also spoke to people who had not yet been fans.
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, so it worked out, and to your point
<v Speaker 2>of like how far CGI has come as well, I
<v Speaker 2>remember there was one scene and it's when Deadpool and
<v Speaker 2>Wolverine are fighting like all the multiverse of Deadpools, and
<v Speaker 2>I swear there was like an entire animated fight scene.
<v Speaker 2>Like I swear there was no stunt people or anything.
<v Speaker 2>It was just like it looked like a video game.
<v Speaker 2>It was just like I looked at my girlfriend, I
<v Speaker 2>was like, that was all animated, Like that was one
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent animated.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's pretty amazing with what they can do now,
<v Speaker 3>but they could not do that back in.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just about magic. Indeed, you know, it's it is
<v Speaker 1>to me. I'm still I'm still impressed with that. Just
<v Speaker 1>sketches and oh yeah, you know, no, it's bath easily please. Yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>it's so true.
<v Speaker 4>How different do you think your X Men scripts would
<v Speaker 4>have been had you had that technology at your fingertips
<v Speaker 4>to work with at the time.
<v Speaker 3>Well, the first one wouldn't have been too different because
<v Speaker 3>they were you know, they said, it's the budget is
<v Speaker 3>seventy five million, which which was pretty tight even then
<v Speaker 3>for the size of movie we were trying to make.
<v Speaker 3>And our first budget came in at eighty two and
<v Speaker 3>I was like, oh, they're going to be thrilled, but
<v Speaker 3>they were not thrilled.
<v Speaker 1>Wow.
<v Speaker 3>I was like, yeah, we're so close. But they were
<v Speaker 3>not thrilled. They said, you know, seventy five million, not
<v Speaker 3>a penny more. Can you make it for that amount?
<v Speaker 3>And we were like, if that's what you're giving us,
<v Speaker 3>that's what we can do. So it was really I mean,
<v Speaker 3>there were limitations to the technology, but it wasn't about that.
<v Speaker 3>It was about they didn't want to spend a dime
<v Speaker 3>more than they had to to try to make a
<v Speaker 3>dent with this movie. So it was really it was
<v Speaker 3>it was almost like making you know, it's weird to
<v Speaker 3>say it was seventy five million dollars, but it was
<v Speaker 3>like making an indie superhero film.
<v Speaker 4>Twenty twenty four perspective, of course.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, now now that's that
<v Speaker 3>budget is so minuscule. But but yeah, so we were
<v Speaker 3>we were definitely limited by and the first cut of
<v Speaker 3>the movie, uh, it was over two hours long, and
<v Speaker 3>we called it Woody Allen's X Men because it was
<v Speaker 3>there wasn't enough action to fill the movie. People talking
<v Speaker 3>the time.
<v Speaker 4>That may need movies now they go for two hours
<v Speaker 4>as an average. Now, I feel because they want to
<v Speaker 4>get people their money's worth, were actually forking out and
<v Speaker 4>going to the to the films.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, when maybe they should not do that.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, what's what's your ideal length for a film like that?
<v Speaker 4>Between I need one hundred minutes.
<v Speaker 3>It depends on how much story you have. So I
<v Speaker 3>also worked on Watchmen, but that's adapted from an extremely
<v Speaker 3>complex book. It's like a seven act movie. Yeah, and
<v Speaker 3>the characters, Yeah, all the characters have massive, intertwined backstories
<v Speaker 3>and all that stuff. So that movie's over three hours long,
<v Speaker 3>and I think it if it's not, it's not Watchmen.
<v Speaker 3>But X Men should have been an hour and a half.
<v Speaker 3>I love a good ninety minute movie. I think x
<v Speaker 3>Men was ninety eight actually, but in x Men two
<v Speaker 3>we had more story and so that one was two
<v Speaker 3>hours long. It just depends on how much story you have.
<v Speaker 3>But if you make a two hour movie and you
<v Speaker 3>only have eighty minutes worth of story, then it gets tiresome,
<v Speaker 3>you know.
<v Speaker 1>Stretching.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, just like just saying, well, throw everything in just
<v Speaker 3>to because we have it is not a reason to yeah,
<v Speaker 3>to make a movie long that long?
<v Speaker 4>You know.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, I think it has to be. Isn't it
<v Speaker 1>sixty minutes?
<v Speaker 3>It has to be for a quote quote for a
<v Speaker 3>future film. I think it's just like seventy two is
<v Speaker 3>sev under that it's not doesn't qualify as a movie.
<v Speaker 1>I remember the when when died Poo was made into
<v Speaker 1>a movie in the sixties. We're talking about this earlier.
<v Speaker 1>I think they they put together I think three twenty
<v Speaker 1>two minute shorts and called it a movie and it
<v Speaker 1>was great, you know, and then they released it. It
<v Speaker 1>want an Academy Award, and thank god they didn't do
<v Speaker 1>anything for the next twenty years because it gave me
<v Speaker 1>a chance to grow up and become Winny the Poop. So,
<v Speaker 1>you know, back then, weird the way things work. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I'll take it right. Indeed, Well that's amazing. So I
<v Speaker 1>feel like I'm being redundant here. But do you is
<v Speaker 1>it do you like the writing more or is it
<v Speaker 1>on camera or off camera?
<v Speaker 2>For you?
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I mean, what's more rewarding or.
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's a good way to put it. The writing
<v Speaker 3>is more rewarding.
<v Speaker 1>Financially, gotta be Oh, okay, you know.
<v Speaker 3>That that pays for my cushy lifestyle.
<v Speaker 1>There you go.
<v Speaker 4>And I do like that, you likeushy?
<v Speaker 1>Cush is good?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, very comfortable and can't beat a good cush Indeed,
<v Speaker 3>I I think voiceover is the most pure fun job.
<v Speaker 3>Like I just absolutely love that. I love doing on camera.
<v Speaker 3>But you know, it's it's boring. You're in your trailer
<v Speaker 3>the whole time. It's either super hot or super cold,
<v Speaker 3>or you're covered in bugs or toxic goog or whatnot.
<v Speaker 1>So it's good to me.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that was that was all I wanted to
<v Speaker 3>do when I was a kid. Now, you know, now
<v Speaker 3>I'm used to a more comfortable lifestyle. I was doing
<v Speaker 3>a Canadian horror movie about ten years back, and I
<v Speaker 3>was just covered in prosthetics and like toxic blood stuff,
<v Speaker 3>and I was like, what am I doing this for?
<v Speaker 1>It?
<v Speaker 3>Like I don't need to be doing this and and
<v Speaker 3>but it was still fun so and and the writing
<v Speaker 3>can be very rewarding and and fun, but it's it's harder,
<v Speaker 3>it's more frustrating. It's it's less about fun because you're
<v Speaker 3>working with major studios who're very concerned about budgets and
<v Speaker 3>you know, their business y things, you know, whereas you know,
<v Speaker 3>you get into a booth with you know, Chris Zimmerman
<v Speaker 3>directing or something, and it's just you're just having a blast.
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, the idea is to come in and have fun.
<v Speaker 1>And to play and yeah, create absolutely.
<v Speaker 3>So they all have different with you. Yeah, they all
<v Speaker 3>have different charms for me.
<v Speaker 4>You know, can you tell us about the first day
<v Speaker 4>you went in to do Solid Snake, because I think
<v Speaker 4>you said it's about ten day recording sessions, right for
<v Speaker 4>that first game. What was the vibe like did you
<v Speaker 4>did you know at that time could you get a
<v Speaker 4>sense there's something special here or was it just sort
<v Speaker 4>of well, I think it's good, but let's just see
<v Speaker 4>how it goes. Could you just could you just sense
<v Speaker 4>at the time this is going to be a hit.
<v Speaker 3>I when I went into audition, the Yoji shin Kawa
<v Speaker 3>artwork was up on the walls and I saw that,
<v Speaker 3>and so if anybody, if you haven't seen it, you
<v Speaker 3>can google Yoji shin Kawa, And.
<v Speaker 1>I think that's always helpful. Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's just the artwork so badass and so ahead
<v Speaker 3>of its time. I mean, it was just it was
<v Speaker 3>just so visionary. So and then I went in to
<v Speaker 3>record and we were recording in this weird house that
<v Speaker 3>wasn't a recording studio, was a living room with like
<v Speaker 3>five five microphones set up, and then the engineer was
<v Speaker 3>just in the room with us with so they had
<v Speaker 3>to be super quiet.
<v Speaker 1>A couple of yeah, yeah, they take you by surprise.
<v Speaker 1>You're going, wait, this is it? Yeah, well fine, yeah.
<v Speaker 3>So so we were in there and then I was
<v Speaker 3>already thinking that this was going to be a pretty
<v Speaker 3>epic game, because I was gamer and I knew the
<v Speaker 3>state of the art. And then in the middle of
<v Speaker 3>the day, I think it was Jeremy Blaustein, the producer
<v Speaker 3>and translator, the guy wrote the English language lines, translated them,
<v Speaker 3>played us the cut scene where Snake shoots down the
<v Speaker 3>hind D helicopter, and when we saw that, I was like, Okay,
<v Speaker 3>this is an entirely new thing. It's clearly very expensive,
<v Speaker 3>and they're making a big swing at it. So so
<v Speaker 3>I expected from that moment on that it would be big.
<v Speaker 3>I didn't expect to be talking about it twenty five
<v Speaker 3>years later, but I figured it would be a big
<v Speaker 3>game and maybe have some sequels and stuff. So yeah,
<v Speaker 3>it was very exciting.
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and now they're doing what is it, a remaster
<v Speaker 2>Metal Gear Solid Delta.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so Meddle Gears Solid Meddle Gear three is you know,
<v Speaker 3>pretty much recognized as the most beloved of the titles,
<v Speaker 3>and so Snake Eater Snake Eater, Yeah, and it's just
<v Speaker 3>a favor. It goes back to the sixties and it's
<v Speaker 3>sort of like a James Bond spot thing. I mean
<v Speaker 3>it's really amazing and so yeah, so they're doing a remaster.
<v Speaker 3>I get to play it the other day. I mean
<v Speaker 3>it's spectacularly beautiful.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so people are going to be blown away.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're reprising the role obviously sort of.
<v Speaker 3>They're just they're using the original tracks.
<v Speaker 1>Oh they are.
<v Speaker 3>I'll do some I'll do some some clean up tracks
<v Speaker 3>and things like that and clarify any controls that have
<v Speaker 3>been changed and stuff like that. But it's really it's
<v Speaker 3>the original performance, right.
<v Speaker 1>Well that's great, yes, yeah, no kidding, We'll take it. Good. Ching.
<v Speaker 4>How did you approach the voice, because going in obviously
<v Speaker 4>you didn't really have much to work with. By the
<v Speaker 4>time you made the second or third you knew who
<v Speaker 4>Solid Snake was. How did you create the Solid Snake?
<v Speaker 3>Unlike all the other games or any other thing. They
<v Speaker 3>sent me the script before, like a month or two
<v Speaker 3>before we recorded, and it was you know, it was
<v Speaker 3>a stack of pages like this. So I had auditioned
<v Speaker 3>with my voice, which at the time, you know, kind
<v Speaker 3>of sounded like this. I sounded like, you know, a
<v Speaker 3>cocky fighter pilot type of guy. And I auditioned, and
<v Speaker 3>I think I'm not sure about this. I think I
<v Speaker 3>got the role because I had starred in a movie
<v Speaker 3>called Guyver, Dark, Hero and Hideokojima was a fan of
<v Speaker 3>that movie, so I think he just said, oh, David Hayter,
<v Speaker 3>we'll hire that guy. But I read the script and
<v Speaker 3>he in the opening, his snake is already retired and
<v Speaker 3>he's a legend and he doesn't want to come back,
<v Speaker 3>and they basically go and they hijack him from his
<v Speaker 3>ranch in Alaska and you can pull him back in.
<v Speaker 3>And I was just like, I feel like this guy
<v Speaker 3>needs to sound older than I do, and I feel
<v Speaker 3>like he needs, you know, needs to sound like he's
<v Speaker 3>been dragged across a bunch of bad road and you know,
<v Speaker 3>there's got to be waight to it. There's got to
<v Speaker 3>be this heavy kind of I don't want to come
<v Speaker 3>back kind of feel to it. And so that's uh
<v Speaker 3>so it just came out of the script and so
<v Speaker 3>I didn't perform the voice I auditioned with, which typically
<v Speaker 3>isn't a good idea.
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, but Chris, but where's the other guy? Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>In the middle. In the middle of recording, Chris goes, hey,
<v Speaker 3>can I play the voice you auditioned with?
<v Speaker 1>Oh?
<v Speaker 3>I know, it's like you should we go back, and
<v Speaker 3>she goes, no, this is working. And I felt good
<v Speaker 3>about it, too cool. I felt like, you know, it's
<v Speaker 3>not really a real voice, it's it's sort of a
<v Speaker 3>larger than life version of a badass. And I kind
<v Speaker 3>of felt like people would get into it, well and yeah,
<v Speaker 3>that's what's up. And they did, and it was you know,
<v Speaker 3>and again it because of my love of what I
<v Speaker 3>was doing that comes through and hopefully that does you know,
<v Speaker 3>you know what it is you love and fire into it.
<v Speaker 1>People respond yeah, absolutely, yeah, well it shows yeah, well,
<v Speaker 1>you know, it shows people get it, no doubt about it.
<v Speaker 3>Well, I appreciate that.
<v Speaker 1>Do you do any.
<v Speaker 3>Are you strictly an actor or do you right? And
<v Speaker 3>I should know this because it's just.
<v Speaker 1>You know, just veo. You know, used to be in
<v Speaker 1>places as a kid, obviously, but I think everybody was
<v Speaker 1>but that and.
<v Speaker 3>Singing, you know, and have you had any success with those?
<v Speaker 1>So far? So good? Yeah, so far.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>I've been all over the world with Jim and just
<v Speaker 3>children's eyes Explode with excitement when they hear them, and
<v Speaker 3>it's it's a cool thing.
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's fun because people think I'm not even sure
<v Speaker 1>how why they think this, but for some reason, Winnie
<v Speaker 1>the Pooh, you know, they'll say, well, can you sign
<v Speaker 1>this for me? And you be signing something and it
<v Speaker 1>will be Pooh and Tigger, and then I'll give them
<v Speaker 1>a little Winnie the Pooh and have a smack wrel
<v Speaker 1>of honey on me and they go, I thought you
<v Speaker 1>had to go somewhere and do something and do it
<v Speaker 1>like there's a spit.
<v Speaker 3>Oh.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I's good. I didn't have that diode in
<v Speaker 1>my head today. That's so I won't be able to
<v Speaker 1>do it. But yeah, they think that there's something going
<v Speaker 1>on there.
<v Speaker 3>I get that a lot too. Yeah, people like, could
<v Speaker 3>you possibly do this in the snake voice? And I'm like, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>that's why I'm here. Yeah, I can do it anytime.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, see.
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, that's very funny.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>But I mean it's you know, it's it's alchemy, it's magic,
<v Speaker 3>you know. I mean, like, you know, I've I've done
<v Speaker 3>pretty well. But I look at Jim and I look
<v Speaker 3>at Maurice LaMarsh And and Billy West and there's just
<v Speaker 3>the stuff you guys do is just it's just still
<v Speaker 3>magically annoying.
<v Speaker 1>Oh oh that too, Yeah that's personality.
<v Speaker 3>That's different.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's different. Yeah you're annoying, but we don't mind
<v Speaker 1>dark wing duck.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah that's right.
<v Speaker 1>Oh man, So heroes are villains? What do you think?
<v Speaker 1>What do you like?
<v Speaker 3>I always my whole, my whole acting career. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>with with very few exceptions, I always got cast as
<v Speaker 3>heroes my whole life until I turned forty, and then
<v Speaker 3>they started turning me into a villain. It's like it's
<v Speaker 3>like it's like that scene in Once upon a Time
<v Speaker 3>in Hollywood where where Leo meets with Paccino and he's
<v Speaker 3>telling them, oh, it's an old Hollywood trick.
<v Speaker 1>You know.
<v Speaker 3>They take an old action star and they put him
<v Speaker 3>up against a young guy, and young guy kicks the
<v Speaker 3>shit out of you and excuse me, uh and uh
<v Speaker 3>he you know, but he's really, you know, kicking the
<v Speaker 3>crap out of J. K. Hill or whatever, and you know,
<v Speaker 3>and so now that's me. So now now I play
<v Speaker 3>like insane soldiers that other people.
<v Speaker 1>Have to come after.
<v Speaker 3>But villains are there more fun to play? Yeah, you know,
<v Speaker 3>I always love being the hero and I always love,
<v Speaker 3>you know, doing the right thing, getting the girl and whatnot.
<v Speaker 3>Playing playing a psychopath is is more fun than anything.
<v Speaker 1>It's gotta be.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's great.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I've had a few of those, but not many,
<v Speaker 1>not many psychopaths. But but one of them would be
<v Speaker 1>Splatterhouse I think, you know, right, But I'm not going
<v Speaker 1>to bring that up because he he's got a potty mouth.
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, so do I apparently I apologize, Yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>of course.
<v Speaker 1>You like him.
<v Speaker 4>Well, no, it's just it's the one that Jim just
<v Speaker 4>won't talk about anymore. Suck the Holy Grail. The people
<v Speaker 4>want to him do terror masking you guys, I'm not
<v Speaker 4>doing it anymore.
<v Speaker 1>It's been done.
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry. I don't know that one though.
<v Speaker 1>Not that's okay. No, it's a video game. Okay, if
<v Speaker 1>you play it, you know, if you didn't, you don't, right,
<v Speaker 1>So you're fine.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 4>I want to touch on you mentioned numerous times you
<v Speaker 4>fan fiction when you're twelve, the Style Wars, Indiana Giant stuff,
<v Speaker 4>that's right. I want to know the stories did you
<v Speaker 4>have Indiana mate Han Sol what were the stories there?
<v Speaker 1>No?
<v Speaker 3>I had I had Indiana Jones. I remember one sequel. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>so I started. For anybody who doesn't know, that's how
<v Speaker 3>I started writing. I saw I was obsessed with Star Wars.
<v Speaker 3>Then I saw Raiders Lost Arc, and then I started
<v Speaker 3>writing fan fiction. I'd like to think I invented it,
<v Speaker 3>but probably not. But I was twelve years old and
<v Speaker 3>I remember there was like one scene on like a
<v Speaker 3>super sci fi train. It was on the roof of it,
<v Speaker 3>and he had a laser whip. So I came up
<v Speaker 3>with this idea for Indiana Jones. But he's got like
<v Speaker 3>a Han Solo type laser whip and sort of thing,
<v Speaker 3>which they actually just used in Acolyte. I don't think
<v Speaker 3>they stole it from my work.
<v Speaker 4>But Climate Climate, Yeah, yeah, but I did come up
<v Speaker 4>with it.
<v Speaker 3>You know, forty years earlier.
<v Speaker 1>Ye. Yes, Well, I'm pretty sure that I invented the
<v Speaker 1>Power Rangers, me and my best friend Kenny, is that right.
<v Speaker 1>We pitched it. We pitched something like that to Fox,
<v Speaker 1>and then five years later the Power Rangers were there,
<v Speaker 1>and I often wondered worth it is it? You know?
<v Speaker 1>And I don't. I don't know how I could have
<v Speaker 1>proved it, but it was teenage kids who banded together
<v Speaker 1>and blah blah, and then the next thing you know,
<v Speaker 1>that poof they appear and there one is Super this,
<v Speaker 1>and one Super that and one and it was kind
<v Speaker 1>of like, hmmm, you know, it may just scratch your head,
<v Speaker 1>but what are you gonna do?
<v Speaker 3>I mean, yeah, those are very difficult situations. I've been
<v Speaker 3>in those situations and I've been in uh legal discussions
<v Speaker 3>with studios or whatnot. I mean, it's to cost you
<v Speaker 3>one hundred thousand dollars to go up against them. They
<v Speaker 3>have the best lawyers in the world. It's you know,
<v Speaker 3>you and you never want to do that unless you
<v Speaker 3>have a lot of money to put into it, and
<v Speaker 3>unless you've got them if you've delivered a if you
<v Speaker 3>delivered a copyright a piece of material that's called the
<v Speaker 3>Power Rangers and they've got the white, yellow, red, black Man,
<v Speaker 3>if you've done all that, Actually, the Writers Guild at
<v Speaker 3>that point will put up their own lawyers to help
<v Speaker 3>you go after them. But yeah, specific you better be
<v Speaker 3>air tight. Yeah, it which all destroy it.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we figured they just got the inkling and a
<v Speaker 1>you know what we could do, we could do, you know,
<v Speaker 1>And it was like.
<v Speaker 3>I had a friend who wrote, wrote a movie, sent
<v Speaker 3>it to the woman who eventually starred in the movie,
<v Speaker 3>sent it to the producer who ultimately made the movie,
<v Speaker 3>and it was exactly the same. And he sued, and
<v Speaker 3>he had all the documentation and everything. He sued, got
<v Speaker 3>a judge who didn't really understand how the business works,
<v Speaker 3>got the judgment put against him, and then was was
<v Speaker 3>charged two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to pay for
<v Speaker 3>the studios legal fees. What that stole his film? And
<v Speaker 3>eventually that got thrown out, But he could have been
<v Speaker 3>stuck for a quarter million dollars defending his own film,
<v Speaker 3>which was clearly stolen. So anyway, this is all inside baseball.
<v Speaker 3>But it's like, you really, you really have to be
<v Speaker 3>careful going up against these these entities.
<v Speaker 1>Well you know, that's why they're the big guys.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they got all the money in the world and
<v Speaker 3>you gotta you're got to take that into account and
<v Speaker 3>nothing but time, nothing but time and lawyers, and they
<v Speaker 3>don't care. That's what their lawyers are there for.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's right, ouch lesson learned.
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, there's probably more fun stuff we could talk about.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, what did you watch growing up? You said,
<v Speaker 4>he's a big fan of Style Wars. Indiana Jones, what
<v Speaker 4>did you watch TV show?
<v Speaker 1>Was?
<v Speaker 3>Well, they're only there only three stations, so I mean
<v Speaker 3>I also grew up in Canada, so you know I
<v Speaker 3>watched the same show as everybody else did. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>you know, through the eighties I loved you know, I
<v Speaker 3>don't know Cheers.
<v Speaker 4>And you a ha Man fan or anything.
<v Speaker 3>I was not a he Man fan.
<v Speaker 1>I was.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, he Man came out when I was twelve,
<v Speaker 3>so I guess I was in the denverrak, but I
<v Speaker 3>never really bought it. I was thought he Man was
<v Speaker 3>super lazy. I'm like, oh, yeah, we need a strong guy.
<v Speaker 3>We'll call him he Man. And then we got a
<v Speaker 3>skeleton faced guy. What what can we call him? What's
<v Speaker 3>the most I know? How about skeleton? No, that st
<v Speaker 3>how about skeletor all right, fine whatever?
<v Speaker 1>Want to go. What are we going to call the
<v Speaker 1>he Man? Yeah? He Man?
<v Speaker 3>Well let's call him he Man and his friend, his
<v Speaker 3>friend who's got the big fist. How about fisto, Yes
<v Speaker 3>that's a real guy, but fist oh yeah he so.
<v Speaker 3>So even at twelve, I was like, this is lazy writing.
<v Speaker 1>That's not Yeah, she Rah come on, she row exactly.
<v Speaker 4>Even at twelve, You're like, it's beneath me. Get back
<v Speaker 4>to my fan fiction, totally, totally.
<v Speaker 3>Well, by then, I was already into the X Men
<v Speaker 3>comics and you know if I mean Chris Claremont and
<v Speaker 3>John Byrne and yeah, yeah, I mean the stories were
<v Speaker 3>so deep and so adult and so psychologic. I was
<v Speaker 3>I was past all that, but I loved uh, you know,
<v Speaker 3>I loved the original Star Trek. I love Star Trek
<v Speaker 3>the next generation. Uh, I don't know, uh, yeah, just
<v Speaker 3>I was watching everything everybody else was. But also growing
<v Speaker 3>up in Canada, we had a lot of British shows,
<v Speaker 3>so I love Monty Python and Dave Allen and you
<v Speaker 3>know all these BBC shows that that really spoke to
<v Speaker 3>me as well.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I got Mighty Pathon they were the Holy Grail.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was the best, most inspired. I mean the
<v Speaker 3>writing of it, the brilliance of it, the comedy that
<v Speaker 3>was so sharp.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I just saw John Place's Faulty Towers.
<v Speaker 3>Oh first time, Uh huh, first time.
<v Speaker 1>Amazing, you know, No, I mean they still doing I
<v Speaker 1>meant the play, I meant the broad what was it
<v Speaker 1>Broadway or no, it.
<v Speaker 2>Was off Broadway in London.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh yeah, I didn't know they had done Broadway.
<v Speaker 1>Really. Yeah, it's really cool.
<v Speaker 2>Oh cool, just premiered just a couple of months ago.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>I just met John Cleese at one of the comic
<v Speaker 3>cons recently, and I was like, what can I say
<v Speaker 3>that won't make me sound like an idiot? And then
<v Speaker 3>so I introduced. I didn't succeed, but I I introduced
<v Speaker 3>myself as a screenwriter, and I said, look, I just
<v Speaker 3>want to say the screenplay for A Fish called Wanda
<v Speaker 3>is so sharp, and it's so smart and perfectly constructed.
<v Speaker 1>And he just lit up and so we started, you know, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>oh that's good.
<v Speaker 3>It was great. I was, you know, just over the moon.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, that was that was That's one of
<v Speaker 1>my favorite films.
<v Speaker 3>Actually, it's so perfect, it's so unique.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it is.
<v Speaker 3>Kevin Klein is just astounding in that movie.
<v Speaker 4>He is.
<v Speaker 3>If you haven't seen it, check out A Fish Called Wanda.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, well I think he's underrated anyway, Kevin Klein. Yeah, well, he.
<v Speaker 3>Certainly doesn't work as much as he should. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>for you know, for for a while in the eighties
<v Speaker 3>and nineties, he was over Yeah, I mean he I
<v Speaker 3>think that was the first Oscar One for comedic role.
<v Speaker 3>I might be wrong, but I mean maybe you know,
<v Speaker 3>some like it hot or something, but but I remember,
<v Speaker 3>like it was unheard of that a comedian, like a
<v Speaker 3>comic role would win the Academy Award. But yeah, he
<v Speaker 3>earned it, man.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah he sure did. He sure did. Wow. Yeah, I
<v Speaker 1>love that guy. Yeah, but we'll have to get him
<v Speaker 1>on should do.
<v Speaker 4>When it comes to writing, David, would you say video
<v Speaker 4>games storytelling it's more like a television show in a sense.
<v Speaker 4>It's more episodic mission put by mission as opposed to
<v Speaker 4>a movie.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Well that's a good question. You know, it's sort of
<v Speaker 3>like it's sort of like Japanese storytelling in a way
<v Speaker 3>in that in that like Japanese movies, not all of them,
<v Speaker 3>but but but you know, a good portion of them
<v Speaker 3>are not necessarily fully linear, like they're like we're experiencing
<v Speaker 3>this portion of the movie now, and now we're we're
<v Speaker 3>experiencing this portion of the movie. Like I mean, I
<v Speaker 3>like there's an extreme example, but like a cure of course,
<v Speaker 3>I was dreams. It just goes from this to that
<v Speaker 3>to this to that, And I feel like a lot
<v Speaker 3>of Japanese storytelling is like that. So when you're writing
<v Speaker 3>a game that's going to take sixty to one hundred
<v Speaker 3>hours to play, it can't be in movie structure because
<v Speaker 3>you'll have, you know, huge stretches where it's super depressing
<v Speaker 3>and not things happening. Like you can't just stretch out
<v Speaker 3>a two hour movie structure into sixty one hundred hours
<v Speaker 3>like Grand Theft Auto five, I feel like is the
<v Speaker 3>best written video game to date.
<v Speaker 4>It's tuck you in a movie.
<v Speaker 3>You're living a movie, but each adventure is its own movie,
<v Speaker 3>and you're you know, and all three of those guys,
<v Speaker 3>those characters are developing, but really the same dynamics are
<v Speaker 3>happening to them again and again and again in this story,
<v Speaker 3>then this story, then this story. So it's a it's
<v Speaker 3>a when it's done right. It's a pretty unique form
<v Speaker 3>of storytelling. I mean, it's more like more like a
<v Speaker 3>novel really, uh where where you can sort of meander around,
<v Speaker 3>take side trips and side missions and and things like that,
<v Speaker 3>but you still have to develop character. You still have
<v Speaker 3>to bring them ideally to a to a resolution. I
<v Speaker 3>think Grand Theft Auto five did that in a in
<v Speaker 3>a spectacular way. You know by the end, if you
<v Speaker 3>you know, have the one ending where they all survive.
<v Speaker 3>There are various endings. It's really satisfying. It's like they've
<v Speaker 3>they're they're standing on the edge of the cliff and
<v Speaker 3>they're like, you know, we feel like we've been through
<v Speaker 3>something and the sun is setting. I mean, it's just
<v Speaker 3>it's a it's a it's it's a really unique application
<v Speaker 3>of writing, I think, and people are getting better at it.
<v Speaker 3>Like it took a long time for video games to
<v Speaker 3>to develop really effective storytelling, and I think Metal Gear
<v Speaker 3>helped usher that in.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 4>I feel like in the last fifteen to twenty years
<v Speaker 4>video games have taken seriously.
<v Speaker 1>Now.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, people are willing to invest in it.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally. Well yeah, I mean well, I mean the
<v Speaker 3>money they make is equal to, if not greater than,
<v Speaker 3>the movies now, so yeah, I think it's better. It's
<v Speaker 3>worth it. And if you're going to spend sixty to
<v Speaker 3>one hundred hours with these characters, you want good story.
<v Speaker 3>Good story sells more games and thanks for a better experience.
<v Speaker 1>You know.
<v Speaker 2>Do you still play games?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what's your What are you playing right now?
<v Speaker 3>What am I playing? I just went back and I
<v Speaker 3>replayed the Mad Max game on the PS four. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>because there was there was some sort of controversy about it,
<v Speaker 3>like George Miller said, you know, oh h he wanted
<v Speaker 3>Hideo Kojima to come in andto a Mad Max game,
<v Speaker 3>and because he said he was disappointed in the in
<v Speaker 3>the one that came out, and it's so good like
<v Speaker 3>that game is, so you know, I was so obsessive
<v Speaker 3>about that game. You're building up the car, like you
<v Speaker 3>really feel like Mad Max, and you're, you know, you
<v Speaker 3>your car gets better and better, and you're going into
<v Speaker 3>these these amazing underground post apocalyptic things and you're just
<v Speaker 3>punching the hell out of people and you got your
<v Speaker 3>dog with you to sniff out mine loves.
<v Speaker 1>You have your dog.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and the leather jack You can get the leather
<v Speaker 3>jacket at a certain point. So yeah, I just replayed that.
<v Speaker 3>And I just want to shout out to the Mad
<v Speaker 3>Max team creative team, because I know they were hurt
<v Speaker 3>by those comments and that game kicked ass. So I
<v Speaker 3>highly recommend picking that one up again.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there you go.
<v Speaker 4>Do you have a dude live streams let's plays?
<v Speaker 1>No.
<v Speaker 3>I did with Vanessa Marshall because she's my friend, and
<v Speaker 3>she asked me to do it. No, I don't like
<v Speaker 3>I don't like playing games with other people.
<v Speaker 1>I don't.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I don't get it.
<v Speaker 3>I play games to be away from other people, and
<v Speaker 3>so I don't do you know, massive multiplayer online or anything.
<v Speaker 3>I just you know, it's like being attacked by ants,
<v Speaker 3>you know. Okay, So no, so I don't do that.
<v Speaker 3>And I also don't want to be, you know, to
<v Speaker 3>have the pressure of people going he saw its snakes,
<v Speaker 3>so he must be the greatest gamer in the world.
<v Speaker 3>And I'm like, no, I'm just enjoying myself. Leave me
<v Speaker 3>the hell alone.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, do you consider yourself a good gamer?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean there's some things I can play. I
<v Speaker 3>mean there's some games I was obsessed with about that
<v Speaker 3>I'm I'm amazing at trying to think.
<v Speaker 1>Of what they are.
<v Speaker 3>Well, like, you know, like Assassin's Creed or whatever. I
<v Speaker 3>play that so much that that I would be really good.
<v Speaker 3>But some games I'm not great at, but I don't care.
<v Speaker 3>I just enjoy the story, you know, I just enjoy
<v Speaker 3>sort of bumbling through, and I don't have any any
<v Speaker 3>need to master every game that I get into, you know.
<v Speaker 1>Well, you'd be busy.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's too much, too little.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not enough howers in the day for that.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. And I also like playing just to know what
<v Speaker 3>the state of the art is, to say, oh, there's
<v Speaker 3>a big game. I want to see what it's like.
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes I'll play, you know, through the first third of it,
<v Speaker 3>and then put it away and not worry about it.
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes I get obsessed and I'll play it again and again.
<v Speaker 4>You know reason I brought the passion of tav before
<v Speaker 4>is because very when you watch a TV show, you
<v Speaker 4>have your favorite episodes. Do you have favorite missions in
<v Speaker 4>any various games that you've played.
<v Speaker 1>Oh?
<v Speaker 3>Sure, Yeah, Well, like there's an underground bank heist in
<v Speaker 3>or jewelry heist in Grand Theft Auto five that I loved.
<v Speaker 3>There's all the airplanes smuggling games in GTA five. In
<v Speaker 3>Meddle Gear three, there's the sniper fight against the End,
<v Speaker 3>which is just across this massive space of lay. This
<v Speaker 3>guy somewhere in the mountains coming for you, and you've
<v Speaker 3>you've got a directional mic so you can hear him
<v Speaker 3>because he's old, he's like one hundred years old, and
<v Speaker 3>he'll fall asleep and you can hear him snoring, and
<v Speaker 3>then you have to like find your way up the
<v Speaker 3>mountain without waking him up to take him out, and
<v Speaker 3>it can take you know, days to figure it out.
<v Speaker 3>And oh so that I just it feels so real
<v Speaker 3>and so I love that, and.
<v Speaker 2>I love how many clever aspects to the Metal Gear
<v Speaker 2>franchise there are like that, Like that was a great mission,
<v Speaker 2>and like another one that comes to mind is like,
<v Speaker 2>I forget which one you're fighting. I want to say
<v Speaker 2>it's Vamp and he no psychomantish. Yeah, and you have
<v Speaker 2>to literally had to take out the controller out of
<v Speaker 2>your socket and put it into another socket. Yeah, that
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't control your character, and like, yeah, I thought
<v Speaker 2>that was so creative.
<v Speaker 3>Well, he is this guy, he's psychic, so every time
<v Speaker 3>you fire your boss, he knows it's coming, so he
<v Speaker 3>just SIPs out of the way and you cannot hit him.
<v Speaker 3>And then in the original game, you had to unplug
<v Speaker 3>your controller from port one put it into port too,
<v Speaker 3>and suddenly he's like, I can't read your mind like this,
<v Speaker 3>and he oh, no, that's pretty cool.
<v Speaker 2>It was really cool, and he would like read your
<v Speaker 2>memory card. I remember playing that as a kid, and
<v Speaker 2>you would be like, I see you're playing Super Smash Brothers.
<v Speaker 4>And how did he know that?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, any Konami games that were on your memory card.
<v Speaker 3>He'd be like, I see you're a fan of Castlevania.
<v Speaker 3>Oh man, who is this guy?
<v Speaker 1>Oh?
<v Speaker 4>The other thing.
<v Speaker 3>The other thing they did was he goes, I will
<v Speaker 3>show you my psychic power. Put your controller down on
<v Speaker 3>a hard surface. So you put it down on your table,
<v Speaker 3>and then you'd activate the vibration and it would start
<v Speaker 3>to move across the table by itself, Like I mean
<v Speaker 3>it was so brilliant.
<v Speaker 1>Wow.
<v Speaker 3>Uh yeah, so that yeah, Wow, that's one of the
<v Speaker 3>great ones.
<v Speaker 2>Really clever. Would you ever write a video game?
<v Speaker 3>I've talked to people about it. Their feeling is they
<v Speaker 3>would love to have me write it, but they're not
<v Speaker 3>used to paying people as much as I get paid
<v Speaker 3>to write movies and stuff, because in the movies you
<v Speaker 3>build up quotes and then it's like, well, I'm not
<v Speaker 3>going to work for less than this, and typically if
<v Speaker 3>it's a big event, you make a little bit more
<v Speaker 3>than your quote. You build up your quote. So I've
<v Speaker 3>been doing it twenty five years, so they don't want
<v Speaker 3>to pay me. What what you what a big writer?
<v Speaker 3>Deserves on a big game usually, but I don't know,
<v Speaker 3>you know, hopefully in the future, maybe some don't come along.
<v Speaker 2>That is that something like you aspire to do, would
<v Speaker 2>you want to do it?
<v Speaker 3>Or is it kind of just saying I feel like, well,
<v Speaker 3>TV movies, video games, I don't care. As long as
<v Speaker 3>the story is good and as long as it gets made.
<v Speaker 3>You know, those are my those are my two favorite things.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I would think, but you know, because because
<v Speaker 3>you write, yeah, well, because you write, I get I
<v Speaker 3>get hired to write a lot of movies that don't
<v Speaker 3>get made because I you know, I come in to
<v Speaker 3>sort of break big, expensive movies that they're afraid to
<v Speaker 3>green light, and so most of them they just they're
<v Speaker 3>too nervous about it, and they the movies just disappear,
<v Speaker 3>or they hire sixteen more writers or whatnot. So so
<v Speaker 3>a lot of things you write, you know, and put
<v Speaker 3>your heart and soul into just get thrown out. And
<v Speaker 3>that's really heartbreaking. But no, I'd love to write a
<v Speaker 3>great video game and just create a whole world. And yeah,
<v Speaker 3>because I you know, like comic books, I love that world.
<v Speaker 3>Same thing with comic But you know, people have been like,
<v Speaker 3>you know, would you ever write a comic book? I'm like, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>but it would take me forever to do it, and
<v Speaker 3>and it would you know, they pay them nothing not
<v Speaker 3>it's not right. Yeah, unfortunately.
<v Speaker 1>Ouch that that's depressing to me because I love comics
<v Speaker 1>so much.
<v Speaker 3>It's super depressing.
<v Speaker 1>It's it's shouldn't be that way.
<v Speaker 3>No, it's it's you know, there's there should be profit
<v Speaker 3>sharing and and if a comic book becomes huge it
<v Speaker 3>makes a lot of money, the artists and the writers
<v Speaker 3>should be compensated. But you know, it's a it's a
<v Speaker 3>very harsh business.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love that.
<v Speaker 4>You once is a treaty. Once gave up half of
<v Speaker 4>your salary so that you could bring back the visional
<v Speaker 4>voice cast for a game.
<v Speaker 3>It's almost true. I they when we did the remake
<v Speaker 3>of Metal Gear Solid for the Nintendo System, Uh, they
<v Speaker 3>didn't want to bring back the original cast because everybody
<v Speaker 3>wanted more money. And I was asking for a lot
<v Speaker 3>more money because I was already now a screenwriter. I
<v Speaker 3>had lawyers, and you know, I was negotiating other deals
<v Speaker 3>and yeah, so I said, but I wanted the original
<v Speaker 3>cast back, So I said, so I wanted like this
<v Speaker 3>much money. So I said, well, you pay me this
<v Speaker 3>much money, and they said yeah. So I said, okay, great,
<v Speaker 3>take take this much off and split that up and
<v Speaker 3>give it to the rest of the cast so we
<v Speaker 3>can bring back the main people. So it wasn't half,
<v Speaker 3>but it was. But it was a good chunk.
<v Speaker 1>You know.
<v Speaker 4>I think, just Any's credit, that's incredible that you would
<v Speaker 4>do that.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, yeah, well, you know, it's just well, I mean,
<v Speaker 3>you know, it was people like Jennifer Hale and Christopher Randolph,
<v Speaker 3>Paul Hiding. Not only were these my friends, but Jennifer Hale.
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't have a voiceover career if it weren't for
<v Speaker 3>Jennifer Ale. She she got me into it, and she
<v Speaker 3>even claims that she convinced Chris to bring me in
<v Speaker 3>for Metal Gears. So so I owe everything to Jennifer Ale,
<v Speaker 3>So you know, I'll do I'll do anything for her
<v Speaker 3>and and for the others. We're all we're all very close.
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, you can't replace autocon, you can't
<v Speaker 3>replace the colonel, Like that's insane, you know. And it
<v Speaker 3>wasn't that much money.
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't you know.
<v Speaker 3>I didn't go broke off off with my large ass
<v Speaker 3>I just, you know, a little nod towards the success
<v Speaker 3>of the first game.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Chris, would we played this voice Chris.
<v Speaker 2>On yeah voice swap. Each of you will do a
<v Speaker 2>character a voice character line. So say you'll do a
<v Speaker 2>voice a line of snake, and then Jim will repeat
<v Speaker 2>that line in say Winnie the Pooh, and then vice
<v Speaker 2>versa will switch back and forth. It's just sure a
<v Speaker 2>little game we play with each of the guests that
<v Speaker 2>are on the game.
<v Speaker 3>A little game, or let's play it. Then let's do
<v Speaker 3>not go.
<v Speaker 1>Ahead, you want to give me one of your snaky
<v Speaker 1>yeah lines and I'll have Pooh say it.
<v Speaker 3>A strong man doesn't need to read the future. He
<v Speaker 3>makes his own.
<v Speaker 1>A strong bear doesn't need to read the future. He
<v Speaker 1>steals his own.
<v Speaker 2>Wait, could you do that line as Hondo as well?
<v Speaker 2>I feel like Honda would say that the.
<v Speaker 1>Wrong men does not need to read read the future.
<v Speaker 1>He makes his own. Nice Hondo. You gotta love Honda.
<v Speaker 3>I loved Hondo. I think I even prefer.
<v Speaker 1>You don't actually have to love Hondo, but I do. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>that's all right. Well let's see then let's.
<v Speaker 4>Do tika only snakes syed Tika.
<v Speaker 1>Oh there we go. The wonderful thing about Tiggers, it's
<v Speaker 1>tiggers are wonderful things.
<v Speaker 3>The wonderful thing about tiggers is the tiggers are wonderful things.
<v Speaker 1>You've got a point there. They are pretty wonderful.
<v Speaker 3>Their bodies are made out of rubber, and their tails
<v Speaker 3>are made out of springs. Their bouncy, flouncy, jouncy, bouncy
<v Speaker 3>fun fun, fun, fun fun. But the most wonderful thing
<v Speaker 3>about tiggers is that I'm the only one. I'm the
<v Speaker 3>only one.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, David Ladies, and I love I love hearing that.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, obviously, we've met each other at a couple
<v Speaker 2>conventions now, and I still can't get over that. Like
<v Speaker 2>when I hear snake, Like, I've played those games for
<v Speaker 2>so many hours and it's just like it sends me.
<v Speaker 1>It sends me every time. Yeah, that's great.
<v Speaker 3>It's a weird thing because you know, many grown men
<v Speaker 3>will burst into tears at my table.
<v Speaker 1>And isn't that something?
<v Speaker 3>But you you spend I mean some people spend years
<v Speaker 3>playing these games, and it's not it's not like watching
<v Speaker 3>a movie where you're watching Harrison Ford or or you know,
<v Speaker 3>whomever up on the screen. Doing their thing. It's you you,
<v Speaker 3>you are the character, you're the player character, but it's
<v Speaker 3>my voice in your head the whole time. So it's
<v Speaker 3>a really intimate experience. And like we go through so
<v Speaker 3>much over the course of the nine games. I did
<v Speaker 3>you know, there's just so many moments andtional thing and
<v Speaker 3>it really you know, and people bond with their dads
<v Speaker 3>or their uncles or brothers whomever over it, and and
<v Speaker 3>so it really gets woven into their heads. So it's, uh,
<v Speaker 3>it's a cool kind of fame to have because you know,
<v Speaker 3>if you don't know metal Gear, you won't know who
<v Speaker 3>I am. You'll be like, what do you have laryngitis?
<v Speaker 3>What's your problem?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>But if you do know metal Gear and you and
<v Speaker 3>you find out, like people just flip out, it's really
<v Speaker 3>it's very cool.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it is. Yeah, Yeah, it's really something. Yeah. I
<v Speaker 1>remember when the video games were first coming up and
<v Speaker 1>they were saying, Wow, they're not gonna last, They're not
<v Speaker 1>gonna last. And I was like, nothing comes yeah, like
<v Speaker 1>like video itself didn't have videotape, no, no.
<v Speaker 3>No, monkey yeah yeah, and I gonna catch on.
<v Speaker 1>It was that it was like nothing comes out changes
<v Speaker 1>the world then just goes away.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>You know.
<v Speaker 3>Now, first time I saw Pong, I was like, it
<v Speaker 3>just exploded in my brain. I was like, oh yeah,
<v Speaker 3>that's I can control my TV like that's yeah. Oh god,
<v Speaker 3>the whole new thing, you know.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean yep, Well, what's what's what's up next
<v Speaker 2>for you? Do you have anything to plug or anything
<v Speaker 2>to talk about?
<v Speaker 1>Were you?
<v Speaker 3>I mean, everything I do is secret until it comes out.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you know, I hope people are still enjoyed.
<v Speaker 3>I was the executive producer and executive producer on Warrior
<v Speaker 3>None on Netflix.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>So if you haven't seen that show, there's two pretty
<v Speaker 3>awesome seasons. In fact, best reviewed seasons of television Netflix history.
<v Speaker 4>Wow.
<v Speaker 3>Wow, we had one hundred percent audience score ninety nine
<v Speaker 3>one hundred percent Rotten Tomatoes ninety nine percent audience score,
<v Speaker 3>which is yet to be taught.
<v Speaker 1>Wow. I have.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean I've got I've got a couple of
<v Speaker 3>television shows that I'm developing right now with different studios.
<v Speaker 3>But I but I can't talk about them yet. Okay,
<v Speaker 3>but things are coming down the road. Just keep an
<v Speaker 3>eye out for my name and hopefully I'll I'll have
<v Speaker 3>something for you sooner rather than later.
<v Speaker 1>Sounds good right on, very very cool. Well, thank you again, brother,
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it.
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for having me. Gentlemen, this is
<v Speaker 3>a great conversation. Always great to see you all and
<v Speaker 3>nice to meet you and and yeah, this is just
<v Speaker 3>super fun. I'd love to be back sometimes.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thanks for being here. Thank you, my pleasure. Sneak out,
<v Speaker 1>sneak out.
<v Speaker 4>All right, guys, thanks to check out the last episode
<v Speaker 4>of Tuned In with Jim Cummings with David Hayter. If
<v Speaker 4>you're watching this on YouTube, do not forget to hit
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<v Speaker 4>dot com, slash Jim Comings Podcast Things Again. David's been
<v Speaker 4>absolute pleasure.
<v Speaker 3>Pleasure was on mine thank you for having me.
<v Speaker 4>What was that, Jim Chris just kidding than you and
<v Speaker 4>joined the next episode of Tuned In with Jim Cummings.
<v Speaker 3>That was that was a first called wonder joke.
<v Speaker 1>Uh that was the middle thing again. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I was it. I'm sure I stole it. I think
<v Speaker 1>we subliminally said I