FairT: Red Sox trade Devers to Giants, Ohtani returns to the mound

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Speaker 1: Red Sox fans are really upset this morning, and understandably so. Another star player is gone. A lynchpin of their organization is gone. Welcome everyone to the Monday edition of Fair Territory. We are live. This is the first day of the Rafael Devers Era in San Francisco and the first day of the post Rafael Devers Era in Boston. We're gonna get into the trade. We're going to get into the angles from both sides. We're gonna get into Shoheo Tani making his first start of twenty twenty five as well first starts in surgery. But let's start with something I wrote back on May twelfth. It actually proved somewhat prophetic. Shock of shocks. Here's what it was, and it concerned Raphael Devers. The idea of a trade at some point isn't all that far fetched. Even with Devers owed more than two hundred and fifty million, including a portion deferred for a hitter of his quality, the contract soon might look like something of a bargain a lease compared to Juan Soto's seven hundred and sixty five million in Vladimir Guerrero Junior's five hundred million Okay, that was just over a month ago. Now, when I said the idea of a trade isn't all that far fetched, I didn't think it was gonna happen as quickly. No one did. It is one of the most shocking trades I can remember in baseball. It certainly rivals some others that have happened in recent years. But when you look get back at Juan Soto and Mookie Bets, those were kind of in the works, Gary Crochet, in the works, we sort of knew this was coming, or those deals were common. This one, to me is the most surprising since Zach Grenk in twenty nineteen, from the Diamondbacks to the Astros at the deadline, That too came out of nowhere. The out of nowhere trades are the best trades, the most fun to analyze, and this one has so many layers. I don't even know if we can get through the wall today. But let's go. Let's start, and let's start with the details of the trade. Exactly what happened between the San Francisco Giants and Austin Red Sox on Sunday. Devers, of course, goes to the Giants. He has owed about two hundred and fifty five million more on his contract. The Giants are taking all the money. In return, the Red Sox get Jordan Hicks, currently on the injured list with a tow issue and a six point four to seven ERA. Kyle Harrison wants one of the Giants' top pitching prospects, outfielder James Tibbs, third guy who was the fourteenth pick overall in last year's draft, and right hander Jose Beayo. So that's the return. It's a meager return. But some would say, hey, wait a second, the Giants are taking all that money and they still gave up players. The Red Sox, from that perspective, did well. I don't know that many Red Sox fans believe that the Red Sox did well, and they should not believe that the Red Sox did well because for this season, and this is what I wrote about today in my column for this season twenty twenty five, when you ask yourself the question, o the Red Sox are better team without Raphaeld Devers, it's difficult to imagine that the answer to that question is yes. Without Devs, you're losing one of the top ten to fifteen hitters in the game. You're losing a veteran player who can provide cover for the young position players that they've brought up. And there's a bunch of them, and they're all doing their thing as rookies or second year players. Ups and downs. That's what you're going to experience with young guys. And as I wrote, well, yes, Alex Bregman is coming back, and that's a great thing. Problem is, Alex Bregman can opt out after this year. I expect that he will opt out after this year, as long as he stays healthy the rest of the season. And as I also wrote, there are unconfirmed reports of Alex Bregman's agent, Scott Boris, rolling on the floor hysterical knowing that he now has the Red Sox in his little hands. So again, a lot to unwrap here, but the Red Sox, Yes, they gain flexibility going forward. They gain flexibility from that sheer technical standpoint. It's a good thing, right. They have money, all that two hundred and fifty five million they can direct to other places. But their chief baseball officer, Craig Breslow, has had kind of a mixed record so far, and they're gonna need to add at the deadline. They're gonna need to add pitching in my opinion, even with the guys that they're getting. Kyle Harrison was optioned to the Miners, and of course Jordan Hicks is not ready. They're gonna need pitching, and yes, they're gonna need another bat. Ralpfhaeld Devers is a monstrous force in a lineup. You don't simply say, hey, we're good now that we don't have Ralphield Devers. So they get rid of the contract. That's a good thing for them. Okay, Yes, in a sheer, distant, remote, non emotional level, getting rid of that contract is good. But you gave Ralfhaeld Givers that contract. And why did you give him that contract. He gave him that contract because you traded Mookie Betts because lost Andre Bogartz. Betts was of course an awful move. Bogarts turned out to be okay because you didn't want to pay him all that money. But that contract was a reaction to some of the other issues that arose with the Red Sox. They give it to Raphael Devers and then two years later he's gone. This is the second year of that deal, second year of a ten year, three hundred and thirteen point five million dollar deal. And when you trace the evolution of this and there are sorry, there is plenty of blame to go around. But when you go back to the beginning here, how did this all start? It all started when the Red Sox failed to include or apprize Raphaeld Devers of what was going on with Alex Bregman. Now you can question Dever's reaction after that, his initial resistance to being a DH, his of course, refusal to play first base. I wrote about that a month ago in that column that we had the trade prediction of sorts, And in that column I said, moving a first base in the middle of the season is not so easy, and it would not have been easy for devs, And that was the thing that got lost here. But the problem I have with the Red Sox, the biggest problem I have with the Red Sox, is that this is a pattern, the Red Sox parting with a star an ugly divorce, not the first time this goes back. I don't know in the John Henry ownership to Terry Francona to John Lester to Mookie Betts that wasn't necessarily acrimonious They just didn't want to pay him what he thought he was worth. Bad decision on their part and Xander Bogartz to a certain extent too, but again that was a contractual thing. They just didn't want to go to the lens that San Diego did, and as it's turned out, Xander Bogarts doesn't look like he's going to be worth that money. Okay, but the pattern is clear here. And Ralphael Devers when he came up in his first years with the team, was never a guy that was considered a problem, a guy that was a malcontent. Now he made some questionable decisions of his own here when you criticize your head of baseball operations as he did with Craig Breslow, when he said, I don't know what he has for me, what issues he has for me or with me. Yeah, that's a problem when you don't take leadership as a three hundred and thirteen point five million dollar player, when you duck the media, when you don't necessarily assume the responsibilities you would normally as the associate with the player of that caliber, Yeah, that's a problem. But again it goes back to the Red Sox not having a good conversation with him and not sitting him down in saying, Rafael, we're talking to Alex Bregman. You have come out publicly and said you want us to make this a better team, and he did do that. Well, okay, Raphael, here's what we're going to do. We're gonna try to sign Bregman. If not Bregman, maybe somebody else, and it might entail you becoming a DH, it might entail you playing first space. Let's get going with that. So that conversation apparently did not happen. And when that conversation did not happen, and then when the Red Sox signed Bregman, here's where the issue arose. And that's the problem here, that there was no communication. Now, again, Devers is not blameless, and the Red Sox ultimately in this particular case, might come out looking good because maybe the contract doesn't age well. In fact, it's probably not likely to age well. Right, he's twenty eight. Now, by the time the sucker is over, he's probably not going to be the player he is. Although DHS guys who are just pure hitters, they normally do age well. Actually, now, what he's going to do in the field, I have no idea. But it's going to be really interesting to see what the San Francisco Giants do with Ralphaeld Devers because Ralphaeld Devers now goes to the team that definitely has a need for him. They don't know though, where they're going to play him just yet. Now we're going to get into that in our next segment. But again, this is a Red Sox thing, and from what I've gathered, Red Sox fans are really upset this morning, and understandably so, because another star player is gone. A lynchpin of their organization is gone, a guy who is homegrown, guy who came up through their organization, won a World Series with them, did remarkable things with them in the postseason, and of course in the regular season. Two well, he's no longer a member of the Boston Red Sox. And there was another article today in The Athletic by Brendan Cuddy, I believe and Chris Kirshner are Yankees writers, and they said the Yankees are overjoyed by this, And yes, absolutely, the Yankees are overjoyed by this. Get Devers out of the division and out of the league, great thing. And when you satisfy your rival. When you make your rival happy, ordinarily that's a questionable move. This is a questionable move again. Francona Lester bets Bogarts and nowdevors Boston Red Sox. The pattern continues all right now, whether you're feeling doom or gloom or walking on sunshine, check out last night's Monster Territory reaction to this huge trade. Robbie Hyde lends his thoughts about how the Red Sox move forward. Subscribe to Monster Territory and the entire Foul Territory network on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back with the Inside Dish after this.

00:10:32
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00:11:35
Speaker 3: Well well, well.

00:11:41
Speaker 1: All right, time now for the inside dish, the part of the show where I talk maybe about a story I've written, maybe about a trend in the game, or maybe we just continue on with the biggest news of the day, the Raphael Devers trade. And now I want to look at it from the San Francisco Giants angle and from the National League West angle, because there's another huge development in the NL West and it's happening tonight. When shoey Otani returns to the mound. But first, the Giants and their perspective on this trade. Why they did it. Now, if you're a baseball executive or even an analytically driven fan, and you're looking at the money and you're saying, well, the Giants are taking on all this money and Red Sox are saving it, they're in great position here. If you're just looking at it from that perspective, yeah, okay, I get it. But here's the thing with the Giants. They have spent years, years trying to get a slugger into their uniform, a guy who is a big time bat. It goes back to gian Carlos stan rejecting a trade to the Giants, and then in free agency it was one miss after another. It was Harper, it was Korea Kara of course for the physical reason, it was Otani, and it was Aaron Judge. All of those players rejected the Giants. They could not get that guy. And look at them this year. What are they They're third in the majors in era, tremendous pitching staff and they haven't even had Verlander. We'll see what he is once he gets back. Third in the era situation. But their offense is again questionable. They've run a lot of run run games that can go either way. Of course, they've had a really good start to their season. They're much more competitive than any of us thought in the first year under President of Baseball Operations Buster Posey, But they haven't had that bat. To get that bat, to pay what was necessary to pay for that bat, they made this trade. They made this trade because other outlets, as we've seen, were closed to them, So from that angle, from that perspective, this is a brilliant move for the Giants. Raphael Devers did not have a no trade clause. They acquired him cleanly, and he is theirs. He is going to transform them. Bob Melvin, their manager, quoted as saying, he's the kind of left handed hitter who can go the other way, who will fit well at Oracle Park Rafield Devers, we all know this. He's going to hit wherever he is now. The Giants gave up some things, most notably Kyle Harrison, who again was their top pitching prospect, and the kid James Tibbs, big time draft pick. He's a prospect too, and some might argue, well, they were taking on all that money. They shouldn't have given up really anything, but it's not the way this went down. And the Giants here they are. They're in a position where we never thought they would be at the start of the season. They're in competition with the Dodgers in the NLST played the Dodgers tough this weekend. They look like a real threat in that division, a division where so many of us, including myself, thought the Dodgers were simply going to run away. Now the Giants clearly needed the left handed bat. The question is going to be, now, where are they going to play Devers. Matt Chapman is hurt right now, but he is their third baseman. You have Wilmer Flores, he's been their regular DH. And here's Susan Slusser tweeting last night for all of you asking Posey, zach Manijen, Bob Melvin will discuss how where they'll use Devers once they've had a chance to talk to him in person. That's to be announced decision, Posey said. Now, the obvious spot for Devers is first base. What have the Giants done at first base this year? They've been one of the five worst teams in the Major leagues. In terms of ops. They released Lamontway junior. They've brought in Dominic Smith as a stop gap. That is where their need is. So they might be thinking, well, wait, Devers won play first base for the Red Sox, why would he play first base for the Giants? Different situation, fresh start. He doesn't feel betrayed rightly or wrongly by the Giants. So I imagine that conversation is going to take place with Devers and if they give him enough of a ramp up, allow him to kind of along slowly as he learns the position, which is a nuanced position. It is not simply as easy as going over there and catching throws from the other infielders. People who think that are sadly mistaken. It would take him time to do this, and he's not the most athletic guy to begin with. That was part of the reason he didn't want to do this in the middle of a season. He knows who he is defensively, in my opinion, and he knows this would not have been easy for him, and he would have risked embarrassment and he would have risked hurting the team. Those risks would still exist if he does this with the Giants. But that is a spot where they need him, and that is where this is likely to at least be a conversation. Now, for Buster Posey, this is the biggest move obviously since he became the head of baseball operations for the Giants. Signed Willia Domas, that was a big one. They gave Chapman the extension, that was a big one. But this dwarf's all of that. This gets them the guy who is not going to be Barry Bonds, no one ever will be, of course, but someone who will be that kind of presence they hope in their lineup for years to come. Now, yeah, you talk about the contract and it's likely to age poorly, and you could even say, you know what, the Red Sox didn't need to jump here. I wrote this. They could have waited until the offseason, surveyed the industry used Devers as a hedge against Alex Bregman, and if Alex Bregman opted out, you still got Devors to play third base, or you could trade devs. You have multiple options. What the Red Sox found in the Giants was a willing taker and a willing taker immediately, and they probably thought this opportunity might not arise again, we're getting rid of all the money. We're getting these players. We're good, okay, And I would imagine you're gonna see quotes in the next day or two, maybe even in things I write from rival executives saying the Giants got ripped off here. They took on all that money, they gave up the talent. They shouldn't have done all that well. At the same time, hey, they got the guy they needed. All right. Now the larger question the NL West, how that's all going to play out? Now? Otani comes back tonight, very surprising that he's back this early. The Red Sox. I mean that the Dodgers we're slow playing this the entire season, and he will be the starting pitcher, as they announced last night tonight against the Padres. It's only going to be for one inning, but Otani as a starting pitcher gives the Dodgers a huge edge. He enables them to carry effectively a fourteenth pitcher. There's a maximum of thirteen, but because Otani is designated as a two way player, he is a guy that can pitch and be a position player and be the fourteenth pitcher in essence. Now, one inning tonight he's going to have to build up over time. He will continue to DH even after he is removed from the game. That's the Otani rule that was introduced a few years ago. And you might ask, why is this happening so soon when the Dodgers kept saying all Star Breaker beyond, it's Otani's call. And I would like to sit here and say reflects the urgency because the division's heating up. I don't believe that's the case at all. The Dodgers have acted with urgency this season. Got rid of Chris Taylor, got rid of Austin Barnes, brought up Dalton Rushing, brought up heights on Kim because they were feeling the heat a little bit, and they're still feeling the heat and they still have all these other pitching injuries and that they're going to have to deal with. But at the same time, they are a team that obviously is going to treat shoey Otani right. They're paying them all that money. Granted they're paying him that in twenty ninety whatever, but they're paying it to him and they want him healthy and they want this to be right. So very obviously the Dodgers here are going to try to build up Otani, make him as regular a part of the rotation as he can be by October. That's been the plan all along. But if you're asking me if this is the Dodgers making this call and rushing him because of the division race, know this is pretty clearly Otani's call. So we have the nl West. We have the Diamondbacks, who, even after losing Corbyn Burns, even after losing Justin Martinez, refused to go away. They are a team where on MLB Network Radio yesterday, their general manager Mike Haysen said, we are not intending to sell, We are intending to buy. We are trying. Hazen has been adamant in his entire tenure about not going backwards. He hates the idea of rebuilding, hates the idea of punting a season. So I don't expect the Diamondbacks to do that unless they collapse. Then there are the Padres. The Padres, remember they had that amazing start, they went fourteen and three, but then twenty five and twenty eight. Since then, questions about whether Michael King will return, questions about you, Darvish. They're teetering a little bit here, but they've got Aj Preller, their general manager, waiting to do something at the deadline. He's going to be challenged, but I expect the Padres to be active. So in reflection, final reflection, the NL West over the last twenty four hours got a whole lot more interesting and it's going to be a lot of fun to watch this division the rest of the season.

00:21:12
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00:21:32
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00:21:51
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00:22:19
Speaker 1: All. Right, time now for Grill and Ken the part of the show, I take your questions, and like last week, we are also taking questions from chat BCC. That's a free chat app. Go to foul Territory dot chat. It's totally free and join the conversation. All right, let's get to the first question from Martha Brennan, who asked, is this Devers trade another? No more Garcia Para oh four trade? Ie? Exactly what the socks need to excel this season? Martha, that's a really good question, and you've got a good memory. A trade of course was twenty one years ago, but it's not quite the same. Garcia Para was disgruntled he hadn't gotten a contract extension. They had tried to trade him previously. If you were they were trying to trade Manny for a Rod, and then Garcia Power was going to go to the White Sox for Magli Ordoniez, but it fell apart because a Rod was given up too much money, the Union didn't approve it. We all know what happened after that. Yes he was disgruntled, and yes they did trade him. It was a four team shocking trade at the deadline, maybe a little after the deadline, We'll never know. But the difference is the Red Sox in that trade got two players that they needed, dougman Kavich first baseman and shortstop Orlando Cabrera theo Epstein. Then the GM had said this was the Red Sox fatal flaw their defense. That's why he acquired those two guys. And of course what happened. The Red Sox went on to break the curse and win the World Series for the first time since nineteen eighteen. Thank you Martha for that question. The next one comes from Shane, who asks, is Dave Martinez on the hot seat in Washington? Okay, fair question too. Nationals have lost eight straight games, only one game ahead of the Marlins at this point, and David Martinez is in the last guaranteed year of his contract, So it's kind of natural to wonder what's up with this team since twenty nineteen when they won the World Series. Since then, from twenty twenty two now, only one team in baseball has lost more game than the Nationals. Only one team, the Colorado Rockies, only team with more losses than the Nationals. So David Martinez, you would think might be in trouble, and maybe he is, but Mike Rizzo, their president Baseball Operations, has pretty staunchly supported Martinez throughout. I remember I did a story of managers on the hot seat story a little bit earlier in the season, maybe April, and at that point Rizzo vocally said, yeah, he's my guy. He's a good person and good manager. So I don't know that I expect to change. But there's a column I wrote a couple of weeks ago Nationals remained among MLB's bottom feeders despite lengthy rebuild. At that point, Rizzo came out and went on the radio in Washington and said, I questioned the timing of this article. We're playing better, and they were at the time they were playing better. Well, maybe I should have waited until now because the article still applies, and yes, Davey Martinez might be in trouble, if not right away down the line, but the Nationals have far greater issues issues in player development, international and amateur scouting. So from all of those angles and those perspectives, that's where the greater problem is. It's been a team that has been rebuilding for a while now and they still haven't gotten it right. Thanks everyone, we'll be back on Thursday.

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