Geoff Ogilvy on the Australian Open, Worldwide Golf, & 2026 Presidents Cup

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a brid egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday fridagg brid Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the Welcome back to another Friday Golf podcast. I am your host, Sandy Johnson. Where we are hurdling towards the holidays. I was really excited to be joined by Jeff Ogilvie. Jeff just wrapped up a three week stint playing professional golf in Australia. It was really fun to debrief with him on his experience. Uh kind of zeroed in on the Australian Open at Royal Melbourne. That talked about his experience playing golf all around the world, and then wrapped it up a little bit with some President's Cup chatter with him being the captain for next year's competition for the international team. So, as always, big thanks to Jeff for giving us some time and talking golf. He's one of my favorite people to chat about with golf and this was a fun one. So let's get to Jeff. But before we get to Jeff, let's talk about our friends over a Best Day brewing. This is a beverage that's made near me as a company that started really close to where I am. So when I moved out to California, I started seeing this pop up all over and you're probably wondering what's Best Day Brewing? It is, in my opinion, the gold standard of non alcoholic beer. This beer is so tasty. I enjoy it what I find it. You know, it's obviously stocked all over here. What I find is like if I'm out to lunch with my kid and I see Best Day, It's like, well, I could have a coke or I could have a Best Day brewing beer, and it's like the same thing. And I find myself opting for Best Day a lot because it tastes. It tastes great. It is an awesome beer. It's a great beer to have after, you know, you go skiing, a bike, ride, a run, a hike. You know. You know, the beauty of this is that you don't have to It doesn't have to be a certain time to enjoy a best day. You know. The Another phenomenon I've kind of experienced is what people call zebra striping where you where you go with like a full beer and that a full normal beer and then you have a an a beer and Best Day is perfect for that. This is the premiere craft brew non alcoholic beer. And they've got a great code for you. If you use the promo code fried egg twenty, you get twenty percent off your first order at Best Daybrewing dot com. That's b E, S T d A Y Brewing dot com. Use the promo code fried egg twenty and that gets you twenty percent off. All right, let's get to Jeff Ogilvy. All right, we welcome Jeff Ogilvy. Back on, Jeff. You're we just wrapped up a couple weeks on the on the Australian scene. You've been playing a lot of competitive golf. What's it you know? Your life now, you're not in it every day like you used to be. What's it like to go through these spurts of busyness and competitive golf.

00:03:52
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I still think of myself as only a golfer, you know, obviously I do lots of other things now with the golf courses and the President's Cup, captaincy sort of take has taken a bit of time, but it felt like I was going back to work, you know, like I've been. I practiced a fair bit before I went to Australia. I've been thinking about the tournament since. I sort of walk out on the range on Tuesday morning and hits the balls and look for a practice round, pairing and play practice around, then a pro am, then the tournament. It like it felt like, oh, I know what I'm doing, Like it felt like going back to doing what I know what to do. So it was nice. Nice to do what I do again for a couple of weeks.

00:04:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's got to be a nice student at home too. It's it's I think like the Australian Open this year at Royal Melbourne. I think for pure golf fans was a you know, as good as it gets, I you know, for me on the West Coast, the time that it was on, you know, Friday, Saturday night and getting to watch you know, we you know, two of the most memorable events of my time covering the sport were the President's Cup at Royal Melbourne and the Australian Open this year at Royal Melbourne. What's it like for you playing the Australian Open at Royal Melbourne versus you know, let's just say a regular PGA Tour event. What type of difference do you feel.

00:05:33
Speaker 2: Well For me, it's interesting because I grew up right next door to Roll Melbourne, well roight next door, maybe eight hundred yards, you know, and I used to in the eighties. We had an Australian Open in eighty four, eighty five, eighty seven at Roll Melbourne. Ninety one. There was a big tournament in nineteen ninety eight called by a Centennial Classic that I mean Peter Thompson played and Jack Nicholas, Fred Couples, Greg Norman, like it was the Who's Who. It was five hundred thousand first place for the bi Centennial Classic in nineteen eighty eight, which was triple what the PGA two was playing for at the time. So that was a mega tournament. So I grew up watching golf tournaments at Roll Melbourne and I just figured that professional golf in Royal Melbourne to me was synonymous. I mean, it was the same thing that Roll Melbourne was meant for professional golf. And then when I turned pro in the late nineties, the tournaments disappeared from Roll Melbourne I'd played. There was one we played a Heineke. There was a couple of tournaments early two thousands, the one where Ernie El shot sixty. Was it like two thousand and two thousand and one, two thousand and two, something like that. You can find that out, Yeah, but they basically disappeared. So I'd sort of forgotten about Roal Melbourne as a tournament course because base I turned pro a long time ago. I turned pround the nineties and I hadn't really played a professional tournament. I played one I think in my whole career, and it's now twenty twenty five. So getting back there anyway, it brought back walking around the putting green in the range. I mean, not much has changed there that rod Melbourne. I'm in the clubhouse is nicer and we used the range across the road. But walking around there reminded me of my youth because I used to like ditch school and sneak up during the practice rounds and go watch Greg Norman play practice rounds and watch them all hit balls in the range and on the pudding green and stuff. And it brought back a lot of memories from my childhood. And it's I mean, in some ways I'm a professional golfer because of all those tournaments. I used to watch it Rod Melbourne, so there was a lot of nostalgia vibes, which was great. And look me straight over when I first late nineties was a huge tournament. You know, Greg was massive, he played all the way through the eighties and the nineties. He was always a big draw, and all the supporting cars so there was always three or four sort of big players from overseas would come down. Foaldo played a lot when he was number one in the world, Sandy Lyle when he was number one in the world. Tom Watson won in nineteen eighty four. We had unbelievable fields and so the Australian Open always felt special and early when I first started playing, it did too. Like in the mid nineties, late nineties that the Australian felt special and there was a few pretty good ones, but it had sort of sort of eroded away. I guess the shine over the last twenty years just for whatever reason, probably the No one reason, lots of different reasons, it had just sort of eroded away. And then this year they sort of tried their experiment with the mixed fields the last two or three years, which was a good experiment. I think it was probably worth try, and it was really interesting tournaments, but it just didn't for whatever reason. There was some reasons it didn't work. So they sort of went back to the drawing board and said, what do we got. Well, we've got Royal Melbourne, let's get some good players, let's put it at Roll Melbourne and let's sort of bring the austrain Open back. And that's really what it felt like. It was arguably the best Austrain Open I've ever played, from a tournament that had been eroding away since the late nineties to something that didn't really even resemble all the Australian Open that I grew up watching, to all of a sudden, go bang, they got Rory McElroy, Adam Scott, camp Smith, Mark Leishman at Royal Melbourne, which is definitely in the conversation for best to go, one of the best golf tournament course, professional golf tournament courses in the world. I would say Roll Melbourne to bring it all back. The fans came out, the infrastructure of the stands and all the corporate hospitality and the amount of people. It was. It was an amazing tournament. It was fun to be a part of and it was fun to see because Australia deserves a great tournament.

00:09:56
Speaker 1: Well you know, being a you know spectator from AFAR on TV and then reading the quotes from players, it seemed like it was like a major championship atmosphere from the jump on Thursday, the fan support was out of this world.

00:10:17
Speaker 2: That was incredible. I mean I teed off. I played group in front of Rory. It was Rory, Adam and minwhoo Lee. I think first two rounds I played group in front of them. At six fifty five on Thursday morning, I ted off, so they teed off at seven o five and it was like last group ten deep. The whole fairway like it was nuts at six fifty five in the morning. That's pretty dedicated. The traffic was crazy out the front. The people, like the people lining up to get coffees in the morning, and how many people were on the range, I mean people were getting sort of ovations walking under the range like it was huge. I mean, there's clearly a thirst four high level golf in Australia. I mean Live sort of filled that gap a little bit, but this is Melbourne. Melbourne's the sporting event, sort of capital of Australia. Really it holds all the big stuff and Melbourne people will go, will turn out in droves. If you put something good on and they turned out, it was crazy. I mean, Rory is clearly a very powerful sort of drawing golf and Roal Melbourne is too, I think because it's sort of an exclusive club and it's got all the sort of notoriety as being one of the best golf courses in the world. Melbourne people know that finally the gates get open and the Australian Open people get to go have a look too, So I think Roal melbourn'sould be part of it. But yeah, it felt it felt like a big tournament from the very first tee on Thursday morning.

00:11:47
Speaker 1: The with Royal Belburn. Everybody talks about, you know, it's greatness, especially the composite course which was in play. When you look at at Royal Melbourne versus the other pantheon of great golf courses in in in the world of championship golf courses. When you're talking Augusta National, Shitta kak wing Foot, what are the superpower traits of Royal Melbourne, and how do they differ from from some of the you know, kind of great other great venues.

00:12:26
Speaker 2: Well, firstly, I mean, i'll it's not I'll put a disclaimery. I'll put the only negative first is it's probably if you want professional golfers to hit driver, it's not. It's not very good at that. There's not many drivers out there. It's quite short in modern day terms. I think we played it as the past seventy two part fives, and the two part fives are great. There's a couple of PuF holes at the members players part fives that we play as part four's, and they're really not even that long. So it's not long. I would say if you measure it against sort of the Oakmonts and the Shinnecocks and the Pinehursts and the Augustas, it doesn't have the room to create situations where prosit drivers. So I mean, I'll say that that's probably a slight sort of mark against it. But apart from that, it's it's got one of the best sets of greens in the world. I mean, the greens are equal to Augusta, arguably more interesting because they're firmer. I would say they're quite similar to Augusta. I mean, Oakmont greens are probably a bit more penal, But I think the Magic it's got amazing hazards. It's very wide, it's you have to you have to think about your next shot, probably more than anywhere else when you're hitting a golf shot. So when you mean you're hitting it off the tea, you really have to think about where you want to be coming in from, and when you're hitting into the greens, you really have to think about where you want to leave your ball. And it asks at least second shot onwards, it asks probably more interesting questions than any golf course of the world that I've played. I mean the Masters does a very good job at that, the one we played regularly. But you have to have every shot. I mean, you have to be able to spin the ball. You have to be able to land the ball short, roll it up. You have to be able to move the ball both ways if you want to have success. There are lots of holes that if you cannot move the ball left to right, you're going to have a lot of trouble getting it within thirty or forty feet. There's a bunch of holes that if you can't move it right to left, you're going to have trouble getting it within thirty forty feet and you're everything gets compounded. So if you hit a really high quality shot into a green, it goes towards the hole and you get sort of compounding rewards for an easier part order part and everything's better. If you hit the wrong shot, it's compounding troubles. You know, you get a longer part or a harder bunker shot, which will make your next your part part even harder. So it's the pressure you feel going into the greens is very high, and that's a hallmark of the great tournament coll I mean, you feel a lot of pressure going in the greens at Oakmond, a lot of pressure going in the greens at Partners number two or Augusta. It's that shot into the green is it's quite nuanced, and it's very it has to be a shot of the highest quality. Like everything matters, not just where it lands matters, The flight matters, the spin, the strike that you've put on the ball, and the very regularly hitting away from the pin is the correct way to play the whole. And that's sort of counter to modern professional golf. I mean, the right way to play professional golf these days is just aim at the pin and go for it, you know, and if you miss then you just get up your short little one up and down. Whereas it roy well, you really have to. It makes you nervous coming into the greens because you're constantly thinking, right, right, where can I make par from, you know, which is amazing considering it's very wide. The rough really isn't that relevant. The bunkers are deep, but they're not They're not unplayable bunkers if you're in the If you're in a bunker on the correct side of the green, it's an easy bunk shot. But if you're in the wrong side of the green, you've it's like, how do I get this bunk shot on the green? So it's it's a it's a golf course that really makes you think about your next shot when you're hitting your current shot, which I think is very prevalent on all the best championship causes.

00:16:42
Speaker 1: Yes, something stood out that stood out to be in you know. Obviously we talk a ton about firmness and how important it is for the monern game, but there's just seemingly a different level out there and you know, you get you watch it up pro golf and you're just grow so accustomed to if a wedge is in the hand, it doesn't really matter where you are but there because of the level of firmness it and particularly when you get the tuck pins, even with short wedges. You know, you're talking full lob wedges, and you see you saw guys like trying to really step on wedges to you know, produce the most trajectory and spin to do to mitigate the firmness. You're seeing sides of the fairway rewarded with wedges, which is just something you don't see in normal you know, pro golf at this point where you know anywhere you are, if you get a wedge in your hand, if you're in the short grass, like you're gonna be able to stop it somewhere. That was kind of one of the big revelations that I had, and I think what what you were talking about. You know that that tournament, it was a great finish with camp Smith and renierguard Peterson coming down the the stretch. Cam Smith was a perfect example of what you're talking about. His t shot was on the right side of that fairway trying to get to that right pin on eighteen, and he at this point knows, you know, for the you know, Pars probably gonna win him the tournament, and he kind of plays safer, and you see from the poor angle, he plays a little safer and the ball repels further away while still on the green, and it left him just a near impossible two putt. And I think that was you know, golf, when you play it at that level of a golf course, feels a lot more like a you know what you were describing. Oh, I always think about tennis in the sense of like these tennis players are hitting up shots to their opponent to set up their next shot.

00:18:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of nuance. And that last hole, that pin on Sunday is really hard. I mean you really can't get You can kind of get close to it from the less other fairway, but you really can't. But the depth of the challenge is that if you have a club that can carry the sort of the bunker that the pin is over, which is sort of halfway up the green, if you have a club that can get all the way to the hole, if you hit it, where cam did you leave yourself an impossible part. But if he hit a club right, if you take the pin out of play, you hit a shorter club, you leave it thirty feet short and left. It's a dead straight part. So I don't know if you remember that his second part, his first part, it breaks twelve feet. You can't get that part next to the hole. It's really fast. But his second part almost goes left like it's a dead straight part. It didn't break. He wanted it to break. If he leaves his second show, if he takes the pin totally out of it and says, you know what I'm going to play for, par leaves it short of pin high left, which brings the right bunker into play, so you have to take If you take the pin out of play, you can then hit it to a part where it's a pretty easy two part. But if you feel like I'm trying to get this shot sort of close to the hole, you hit it past, beIN high, and now you can't two putt it. Like that's the depth of the challenges that you really have to decide. If I want to make Bertie, you are risking not being able to two put it if you pull it. But if he only if he'd given up Bertie and just wanted to make par, then you've got a chance to make it. You'll never make Bertie, but you've got a chance to make par. So I think it's interesting because we don't get that anymore. I mean, I'm sure in like the Mike Clayton's and the Peter Thompson's and the older golfers that I talked to, they suggested that golf was more like that, used to always be more like that, but professional golf isn't like that. Like we won to the pin, I'll get my one ninety five club aimed at the pin and hit it and I'll then I'll work it out what happens when I get there. Whereas Royal, when it's that firm, it's it brings in a whole lot more depth. I would say to the challenge, like you you really have to make good decisions, hit good shots, and very be very decisive because you have to. You know, if you if you're willing to give up Bertie, you can make pretty easy pass. But if you start wanting to make Bertie's, then you bring in all sorts of problems. And when you get to a last hole of a tournament that when they're all tied up, it gets very interesting. You know. Erasmus, he really got He hit it in the worst spot possible and got it up and down like that was a career up and down. So Cam got a bit unlucky on that front. And see where it was funny too. They were playing in a three ball and see who needed to make Bertie or he felt like he needed to make Bertie. In the end, he didn't need to make Bertie. He couldn't help himself. He just tried to hit a big guy cut five. I straighted a pin that you can't hit a cut five onto you, like, there's no chance he hits the green doing that. You just couldn't help himself, which is why we love Seawood. But you get three people playing the last hole completely differently, you know, and you get three different results, and that's fun to watch. I mean so often we watch these tournaments come down the line, two players at the fifteen feet and they either make it or they don't. You know this, we had three completely different scenarios with three guys in the group all in the tournament. It was just it's a it's a fun it's a fun golf course to watch in that respect, because every player in every group is doing something different. You know, it doesn't dictate the way to play the course. You kind of got to work it out for yourself.

00:22:34
Speaker 1: I think what you hit on two is three people coming down the stretch with a chance to win playing a golf hale. And you know, I don't want to make this about the mediocrity of so many courses, but I've one of the things in pro golf that you find I watch every single week, So I feel like I could say this is at most golf courses, you're kind of watching somebody come down the stretch and it's like, well, if they avoid the pond on eighteen, they're going to make a par. And what I find so appealing about Royal Melbourne and what you were just talking about with the eighteenth hole, there was a way that you could you could screw that hole up off the tee away, you could screw it up with your second shot, a way you could screw it up with your with your with your putt, and that the there's a wide range of outcomes on every every shot, which you know, that is what I think for me, my favorite golf courses do is that there are ways that you can really screw yourself up everywhere you turn, and that you know, that's that that stress level, and you know that golf course, particularly with how firm it is, becomes you know that I imagine being you made the cut, you're inside the ropes. Was the most important number that you guys were talking about, the front edge number on mosils for.

00:24:04
Speaker 2: The most part, Yeah, I mean there's a lot of holes that you want to land the ball short of the green. There's a lot of holes you can't land the ball short of the green because there's quite a steep slope at the front. It's different in every hole, I mean, and it's different from where the pin is. I mean, I know the US golf course sort of golf course snobs sort of go on and on about stuff like this, but you just the first hole is a very basic, simple hole, pretty flat green, and anywhere anytime the pin is on the right, you want to land the ball sort of front edge or just short and bounces up and you've got a simple partner. It gets the field away. But on Sunday they just there's this nice little hollow and mound at the front left of the green. They just move the pin to the left all of a sudden. You have to you have to land it like on top of a mound, within about a square yard to get it close to the hole, and if you get it wrong, it bounces over the back or it stays short in a hollow, and just by moving a pin fifteen feet all of a sudden, that hole becomes really hard and it's easy to have a forty foot of it, but it's very hard to have a ten foot of there. And every hole is a bit like that, where the third hole is this driveable hole. The whole field could hit driver on the green. But there's two pins on the left where you really want to sort of be short and straight, like just short of the green straight. But then there's two pins on the right where one of them you want to be left of the green, and then the other one you actually kin'd of want to be right of the green. Pin high. So you've got it's two hundred and seventy five yard hole, but there's at least three distinct places you want to be that are fifty yards apart three days in a row, which I just think is fascinating. Where you can't just decide on Tuesday, right, I hit it down the left on this hole and that's the right way to play this hole, because the on where the pin is sometimes the total other side of the fairway is the right play. And I think that's really interesting and I think that's why Roal Melbourne. At first glance, when you come to Melbourne, people are going to look at p K and Kickson Heath and Victoria and all these courses and go, ah, they're all They're all just as good as each other. But the more you play Royal Melbourne, the more you scratch below the surface and you play it in conditions like that, the more you find things like that, you find nuance and sort of it keeps you scratching your head and you learn something every single time you play. And I think you the more you play Roll Melbourne in a tournament setting like that, the more you realize that you know, this is this is the complete test of a golfer, and this is this is asking me questions. I don't think I've got the answers to, you know, and after thirty years of being a professional golfer, I still don't have the answers to all the questions. I think that to me makes a fascinating golf course.

00:27:07
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00:29:54
Speaker 2: As far as dates and stuff. You're talking about.

00:29:56
Speaker 1: Dates and conflicting tournaments.

00:29:59
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I think there's two sides of this argument. I think I think a couple of weeks in the Australian Open last week proved that if you put on a great tournament at a great course in Australia, people are going to come and it matters. So I think having such a dense golf professional golf in calendar, there's one argument to say it's great because there's lots of professional golfers in the world, all worthy of playing golf for money. There was a tournament the Bahamas, a tournament in Melbourne and the tournament in South Africa that same week, and look, they were probably all great tournaments and people loved watching them and it entertained three different sets of people, and there's an aspect to that that's great. But it would be nice to have a bit of sort of space in the calendar to highlight things like the Australian Open and have the whole golf world wide and have it be the option, the option for the week of the first week in December or whatever. Everyone in the world. If you want to play a great tournament, there's one on in Australia and that's your choice. Like that would be great too. I don't know where I sit. I mean, like, as I said, I think it was a great tournament. I think, and it competed against two other tournaments and it was still a great tournament. I feel like the viewership in the US was pretty strong. It feels like it was getting a lot of banter from outside. People were watching these train Open So I think if you put on a great tournament, people are going to watch, even if there's other tournaments the same week. But it would be nice if, yeah, like when the Austrain Open tennis is on, the whole tennis world is watching the Austrain Open Tennis. That's the only thing that's on. It's the only game in town and if you want to play a big tournament, you've got to come to Australia. That would be nice if it was the strawin Open golf as well, but golf's a bit different from that. Yeah, I'm not sure I've got I could argue both sides of that. I think.

00:31:55
Speaker 1: I think that's what's you know interesting about talking with with you is know you've someone that made most of his career and you know you played in this Tiger generation where the worldwide opportunities all kind of moved stateside and the tour. You you know, your early part of your career was where you had, you know, the best players of the world were all spread out, and then you played through the consolidation onto the PGA Tour and the tours at a fascinating inflection point. Right now, they have a new CEO, Brian Rolapp, who's talked about this idea of scarcity and a real big makeover to the schedule. You know, one idea that's been kicked around for decades at this point is is a world tour. And you know, I don't I don't really have a lot of conceived notions that that world tour is going to formulate anytime soon. But I would be curious, as someone who has played all over the world, if you were going to add four tournaments. Let's just say to a you know, a calendar of twenty that are outside the US not currently in that in that PGA tour type calendar, what would be the four ternaments you'd want to see the best players of the world showing up at worldwide.

00:33:21
Speaker 2: Well, look, yeah, I think the global tour is important. I mean, I think the world is bigger than the US, and the golf is a megasport everywhere or on a megasport, but it's a big sport around the world. I think traveling around the world is sort of part of why I signed up for the job, you know, like it's sort of I chased a little white ball and I got to go. I've got I mean, I got a lot of stamps in my passport over the last thirty years from cool places that golf has taken me. And I think that's an aspect of it's been forgotten that that's one of the benefits to being professional golfer is that you get to go everywhere, you know, and I think you get to get so.

00:34:05
Speaker 1: Round of the pitch is so different from thirty years ago.

00:34:10
Speaker 2: It is so different. I mean, it's so much easier than it was thirty years ago, and I did and thirty years before me, you know, like the play sixties and seventies trailing around there, Gary and Jam I mean Gary players. He'll tell you stories for hours about one hundred and twenty hour trips from London to Australia and stuff to play in this train open and like that's a proper adventure. I mean, it might be tough at the time, but you remember that, you know, that's a cool sort of adventure. But yeah, travels a lot easier. And I think when you play the PGA Tour it and I got sucked into this as well. It's so good and it's so easy that you begin to sort of lean away from that because it's like, oh, well, I can just if I can just play here for six million dollars next week, why would I travel twenty four hours to go play for less money? You know, But when you take a high level look at it, that's sort of taking the fun out of it. You know. The fun is getting around the world and playing in front of different people and playing different courses and different conditions. And I think that's a you lean away from that after a while when you're playing the PGA Tour a lot. But it's a shame because that's I if I sit down now and sort of reminisce in my career, the travel, the big travel trips were the most enjoyable parts of it. But I don't know, I mean, to go back to your original question. I mean, the Australian open I think clearly should be a part of any sort of global tour. I think golf is such a great sport in Australia. We've got such great talk, such great golf courses that everybody seems to enjoy playing, and they're so different. You know, it's still golf, you're still hitting the ball, but they're so firm and it's not really a driver test anymore. It's more of a test of irons and short game and sort of strategy, which I think is refreshing. You know, the UK, clearly we have to have a stretch in the UK because that's as good as the golf is in australia's probably better in the UK if you actually really look around that place. I mean, they invented the game. And everybody obviously loves the Open. The opens great and that roads is brilliant. But I mean the courses west of London are amazing. The whole islanders of both Islands Island and the UK and Britain is just they're dotted with just outrageously good golf courses. So I think Britain has to be a big part of it. There's some good courses on the continent, believe it or not. I think you need some courses in the continent. I love the Canadian Open. I think that's great. I mean, if it's a pguter event, it still feels like it's a it's a global situation and I'd love for some golf. Asia is a big part of it. Japan's a pretty deep golf culture, career is developing pretty strong, so Asia clearly has to be part of it. Africa is an adventure. There's always great to go down there. In South America, we never seem to play too much profession golf down there, and we've had so many great players from sort of South America, especially the presidents, our presidents, cup Angle, Argentina, Argentina and Chile and Columbia, And like, I think a true global swing, you know, I think would be one. It would be an amazing journey to play it, like to just travel around and to go to all these places. But too, I think taking the best golfers in the world to these places you can just see, like it takes Rory. Rory McElroy comes out to Melbourne and Melbourne's used to seeing big stars. We have a Grand Slam tennis tournament, there's an F one race here. There's a lot of big stuff in Australia, so we're not completely sort of left alone on that front. But Rory turns up with a sort of supporting cast of minwoo Lee and Adam Scott and Campsmith and like the people came out, it was a sellout, it was huge, it was a big deal. It was all anyone was talking about in Melbourne for a whole week. And that's cool, But lots of other places in the world, I mean, don't ever get to see that that caliber of golfer. And I think it's an overused saying, but if you like, and it's not really something that I would say every day, they're growing the game thing. But if you really want to sort of amplify the game and take it around the world just to sort of show people how good it can be, you've got to take the best players around the world to put it on their best courses and get them to compete, because it's just a great spectacle for people to see.

00:38:37
Speaker 1: You know. The one of the things you hit on the idea of South America, Australia, Africa. Those are three areas that are in the southern hemisphere and like one of the tourists biggest problems right now is like early venues that are to host from let's just say January to March, and the time constraints that are placed in those times because of short days that time of year. You know, they can't get these fields through. They can't do that. And what ends up happening is we use these these dates in California and the worst time to host golf events in California and from the work, you know, you all of a sudden move those to different time a year and you get this primetime golf in peak conditioning in California that alleviates like people don't watch as much golf, I don't think in the summer because they have other activities, you know, and you're playing these events in the middle of the summer, and it's like people are like, well, do I want to go outside if I live in one of these you know, northern climates, or do I want to watch golf inside? And sometimes they do. But then you put them at night and you get this primetime product. If you are able to create that world tour, you know, where you go to these little coals. One of the benefits is that you get the flip daylight scenario with some of these you talked about collecting passports. Is there a place that you went, maybe it was into your younger years that you think about a lot from goth.

00:40:21
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the continental Europe is a fun place to travel around because you drive three hours in a car and you're a completely different place, you know, like Germany to Spain is like totally different, right, but they're so close. Really, it's like going from California, I mean Arizona to California, Like they're really not that far away, but it's like a totally different place. You drive one hundred yards and the accents different, the language is different, the food is different. The building I mean a new building in Europe is two hundred years old, you know, so you're in these old historic hotels and cobblestone streets and the food is and so I loved traveling around. There lots of places in Asia. I think Japan's an amazing country to go visit. I loved going to Japan. Africa. I mean played sun City early and early in my time, and like you play golf in the morning and then you go on safari that night, or you go out early in the morning and you go in safari and then you're tearing it up in three or four hours. I mean, that's just very memorable. Staff never been to South America actually, as why I kind of would love golf to go down there. I don't know. It's yeah, Continental Europe. If you've really if you told me one place to just tour around, I think that's my place. It's not the most golf rich area, but as far as it's so old, it's so sort of such a mature cultures there that they've been there for thousands of years, and they're very they're all so interested. Like I said, you go Germany to France is totally different. Then you go to Italy and you go to Spain, and then you go up north to Scandinavia. It like it's like totally different, but they're all really so close together. I just think it's fascinating, Like I've just enjoyed and every place is different when you play the PGA two forever. I mean, Texas and Arizona are different, But are they you know what I mean? It's the same franchises on the same side. You're staying in the same franchise hotel and next to the same franchise restaurants and like everything's kind of similar, whereas when you go around the world like this, everything is so different. And I think that's what's so so interesting about it. You know, the Middle East. I always enjoyed Dubai and Abu Dhabi. I mean, what they're doing there, all of it. I mean, I think everywhere like that. Variety is the spice, right. That's the best thing about traveling around the world is you get something totally different everywhere. You're still playing golf and that's your sort of constant, that's your north star, if you like. You're still trying to hit the ball down the fairway and make puts. But when you leave the golf course at night, you adding an adventure and you try to find a restaurant. And I just think that's the best part of the job.

00:43:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm looking at your nineteen ninety nine OWGR page and it's it's amazing. You start with the Victorian Open, you go to Spain, you go to Malaysia, France, England, Germany, Morocco, you know, Ireland, you play the Dutch Open, the Scandinavian Masters, and then you know, it seems like you really really came on at the end of that year, ninety nine third of the Scandinavian Masters, second at the Johnny Walker. I mean, you talk about a great tournament of yesteryear and then a seventh of the Australian PGA to finish it, and it's just you look at that type of year versus you know, somebody who's aspiring to be at the top of the game. You know, and obviously the DP World Tour still goes all over the place, but you go to the you compare that to somebody that might go straight to the corn Ferry Tour and it's just a completely different experience. Like that had to be, you know, a crazy time being a young you know, young tour pro traveling the world, figuring it out late, right.

00:44:09
Speaker 2: I think so too, And I think it's underestimated. There's so much. I mean, we're so good at teaching golf now that these kids and we see them come out all the time. I mean they're ready in a golf sense when they get on tour. You know, Luke Clanton, Gordon Sergeant, these guys, Ludwig, they're so good when they're young. But if you go straight to the PGA Tour and you just play in the US. There's a lot of skills that we picked up along the way that you don't learn, you know, like I think, and I think they're really important skills. And I think, yeah, there's a lot of kids who who come out of school and they play great, like Ludwig, and they're off to the races, you know, but there's a lot who are amazing for the first year, but they sort of get found out, not because they can't play, but because all the other skills they didn't learn along the way. I mean, we learned how to travel, We learned how to eat in different places, to survive in a place with a different language every week and different current we were changing was pretty euro When I was in Europe, we were changing currencies every week. And I think there's so much more to professional golf than just being a good golfer, you know, there's being a good traveler and being able to adapt to different circumstances. I mean, and I don't think it's a It's not a surprise that the one US kid who went away and learned how to be a professional golfer was brooks Kepka. You know, he went straight to the challenge to it, played challenge to her for a few years, played Europe for four or five years, and when he came back, he was by far and away the best player in the world and the most accomplished kid that had come out of the US for a while. And I'm not picking on US kids. Australian kids do the same. Like everybody just goes to the corn ferry to it, plays a con ferry to it, tries to get on the PGA Tour and then they play. I think learning those skills of it's cold one week and I'm playing on power grass this week, and next week it's Cocua grass and the next week's Bermuda grass. And the language is different, and the food is different, and the hotel the pillow is a bit flat or it's a bit high, or you know, there's no gym here. How do I work that out? You know, there's only a I mean some of those early European tour tournaments you can only fit seven or eight players on the range, so you'd have to learn how to fight for a spot on the range, you know. And then it's dark when you tee off sometimes or you're finishing in the dark, or you yeah, it's just all those little things that you pick up along the way, and I think that makes you a more complete golfer. And I and when you get to like regular pgat tour events, you sort of see a big variety of names pop up. On the weekend of like every week, it's a different group of guys. But when you get to those majors or the really challenging golf courses, it's usually it's the creamal rise to the top because there's more tests than just golf in those weeks. And I think traveling around the world, playing in a variety of conditions creates a more complete golfer, you know, and it's a more interesting It's just a more interesting journey. Like I just think it's there's more to golf than just one hundred and twenty five mile an hour swing speed and in a nice eye draw. It's like there's more to it than that. I mean, that's part, that's a big part of it. It's the biggest part of it. But the picking up life skills along the way, I think just it just makes it just makes it more enjoyable.

00:47:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, something that resonates with me, you know, And I think you pick this up as you age a little bit, but golf in so many cases as microcosms of your of life. Right You're you're dealing with adversity, and you're having to overcome bad breaks, and you know, situations that don't have good like necessarily you're trying to decide between two things you don't want to do. You know, often on a golf course when you hit it in a wrong spot and you know it t you know, there's a lot of patience and all that, and like some of the things that have helped by golf game the most is just like when you just get thrown a whole pile of crap in your real life and then you go to the golf course and you're like, this isn't a big deal, Like, I this doesn't really matter that much because you're experiencing all this other stuff in life. And I think about like how it feels like when when you know every pro golfer is trying to get to this point, you know, of where a major championship is just another tournament or a pro tournament. You know, playing a tournament feels like another round. And maybe the best way to prepare that for that is having a lot going on in your life at a young age to the point where you have a lot of responsibility. Besides just like is my swing on plane? Am I? You know? Am I rolling? Putts true? And you know the way and this is just the way society has gone. Right. We see kids that just don't play other sports anymore growing up. It's like we you know, I talk to these parents now that I've got a kid in kindergarten, and I talk to these parents with older kids. They're telling me about like they're driving three hours for a baseball game and my kid only plays baseball And I'm like, what, he's eight, you know, like what are we what are we talking about? But like this specialization is running rampant in the sports. But also, you know, you think about the young tour pro now, the responsibility they have. You know, if you're promising pro, you have agents that book all your travel, you have they book your hotels, like you have player dining for all your food, and really all you're doing is like did I bring my track man to the ring? Is like the only thing they think about. And in a way, I do think that actually hinders the player in the long term.

00:50:17
Speaker 2: I think's for sure. I mean, look if you we all know a player who the best player at the club, you know, the club champion or whatever, who only ever plays his home club, who should sixty six every single day at his home club, and we all think he is as soon as he goes to another golf course though he should seventy five. Like every club everywhere, those players are around, and too players are a bit the same. I mean, it's just it's more evolved. It's like there's players who are great on their home tour, but they're no good when they leave, you know. And the most complete golfers and the best golfers are the ones wherever they go in the world, they get better. And the more the more you do that, the better golfer you become at home, I think. The more I think, the more you play in a variety of circumstances and situations, the better you're going to be when you get home. You know, Like it's golf is. If there's any hallmark of golf that we really never acknowledge enough, is that every shot and every day is different. You know, you wake up different, your lie is different, the temperature is different, Like you never have the same two rounds. You never have the same two shots. Really, yet all we do is practice the same shot all the time on the range. But the hallmark of the game is the best players are the ones who can adapt the most, and I think the best way to do that is to play and different circumstances all the time. And the living thing, I mean, professional golf is like you said, it's dealing with adversity. I mean, life is dealing with adversity. Professional golf is a great way of practicing dealing with adversity and just putting more variety into your schedule and playing in more different sorts of courses, more different countries, and more different climates with different sand and different grass and different diets. I mean, try playing in Asia when it's ninety degrees humid, when you ate their wrong food the night before, when the tournament organizers didn't put enough portable restrooms out on the golf course. You said to learn a lot about yourself when you're traveling around like that. You know, these are situations that come along, you know, and they're awful at the time, but then when you look back at it's like, you know what, when when you three parup the fifth hole of the Masters, it's less it's less scary, then it's not as it doesn't affect you as much because you know, at that time in Thailand, I had a bit of trouble that day. This is a lot better than that. Yeah, And I think these are all things that I think. One, I just think it's a more interesting way to take the journey. But too it'll make you better and a more complete golfer. And to follow on your sort of analogy of connecting golf and life, I mean it teaches you life, you know. I like playing down in Melbourne. Australia is a very civilized country and Royal Melbourne's a very civilized golf course. But it's still different. If you don't do it. You know, you're most professional golfers who grew up in the US or anywhere anywhere who's never been in Australia has never played golf. That firm, you know, it really is. We think firm is a big bounce and then it stops on the PGA to it, But roll Melbourne, it'tle bounce over your head like it'll. You can hear it from the middle of the fairway when it lands, you.

00:53:30
Speaker 1: Know, especially if you catch it a little on the toe and you get just a little hook spin on it, and.

00:53:35
Speaker 2: A little hook spin you hit it on the toe. Strike all of a sudden is really important. It's it's a different experience. It's not the only experience. I mean, I don't think all golf should be like that. You know, it's but to do it every now and then, it's just like, this is a different test, and it engages you. Again if you have the same there's a lot of sameness when you play PGA Tour and it's good. Same, everything is great, but one seventy five it's an eight on you know, it's one eighty two. I'll hit a little six one, and like it's the same. Every single week pretty much is a similar test, and you don't notice that it's a similar test until all of a sudden you come to a place like austrailer. It's like, wow, I've got one eighty two, but I want to land this one fifty four because it's going to take a big bounce. So I'm hitting nine one from white eighty two and that's hard to get into your head and it's good for you, you know, And again it's you get more engaged. You start looking in your yardage book a little more. You don't just take the number from your caddy and pull the club out of the bag. It's like you actually have a real conversation, like where do I want to land this? Does it have to be fading? Just have to Can I land this short of the green? Or should I land it on the green? Does this need to be spinning or not spinning? And I think that is a challenge at first when you haven't done it for a while, but when you start doing it, and by the end of the week I was disappointed we didn't get to play around on Monday, you know, like I wanted to go out again to be a five round tournament. I'm sure after five I would want it to be a six round tournament. Like that, I can't say that's true about most tournaments that I play. It would be true with the Old Course, it be true with the Masters, It would be true a lot of places. But it would be a rarity for sure.

00:55:28
Speaker 1: All right, real quick, You know, one of the things that makes pro golf easier is staying stainkful, not getting hungry on the golf course. You know. One of the best ways this year that I've figured out how to stay more nourished on the golf course is with Maui Nui. Maui Nui creates. It provides really the best and the cleanest, most nutrients dense red meat on the planet. It is their venison that comes straight from the mouth island of Maui. So they have a couple great holiday gift sets that are ready to gift, beautifully packaged and same great meat. They have the Stick Starter a six pack. These sticks are awesome to throw in your golf bag. They also have the Always Summer Sausage which is a small batch fermented and smoked, and they clock in with twenty grams of protein at only one hundred and ten calories. So this is like super low calorie, high protein food. Proteins all the rage right now. I think protein's here to stay. That's that's a little hot tip I have right now. And this year, if you buy any four gifts you get a fifth free. So if you buy those gift sets, if you buy four, you get a fifth free, and you can mix a match however you like. All of this is available at Maui Nui Venison. That's m a u I and you I Venison V e n I s o n dot com slash egg. That's Maui Nui Venison dot com slash egg and they ship nationwide directly to your door. Uh go on there and see those uh those gift sets in all their products. Thanks to Mali nuy for the great year. And let's get back to Jeff Ogilvie. Well, we were going to talk about Moore stuff. You know, we've we've eaten it all up talking about golf and Australia and across the world. And I'd be remiss. Your your nine months or yeah, nine months from the President's Cup. You're l cappy Tan, You're the you're the the captain of the international team. What's the next nine months look like for you? Are you you know, are you going to be out on tour more often? What? What are you? What are you? What's kind of your plan for for for the deck signed months and getting prepared to hopefully lead the Internationals to a win for the first time in a long time.

00:58:09
Speaker 2: Are you're gonna You're going to annoy your US listeners with that You're supposed to be Team USA.

00:58:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got my I should I should have put this hat on for this.

00:58:19
Speaker 2: You know, there we go. Now, that's good.

00:58:25
Speaker 1: Love it, get my get my hat in. You know, I'm fine being being being an international you know here.

00:58:35
Speaker 2: Brilliant, I love it. Yeah, Well, look at some there's one of two aspects of the job. I guess is there's the logistics of the week, you know, like getting getting the apparel down and getting the golf bags worked out, and getting the getting the sort of our team is all different cultures, so getting the food like balanced out for everybody and making sure we've we've got all the right people there. And then the other aspect of the job is winning the tournament and you know, and getting the team together and getting them motivated and picking the right players and pairing them up right and diving into the diving into the analytics and the personalities and the sort of teaming it all up. So it's quite a big job. It's interesting. I mean, I've been talking to a lot of people who've been involved with Ryder cups. I'm going to try to sit with Luke. I don't think anyone from tim USA is going to try to help us, so I'll probably I'll probably farm some information from the European side of things. I've talked to some previous captains. I've talked to Ernie and Trevor, and just trying to put all the pieces together. Yeah, I'm going to try to spend a lot of time on tour, hopefully playing a few if I can get a few invitations, just being with sort of the group of players more regularly, get them thinking about President's Cup more. I think a hallmark out of if you look at the European clearly have are in a good spot with how they approach the Righter Cup and how they perform at the Righter Cup. They it feels like the Righter Cup to them is a constant. It's not just a once every two years thing. They're always thinking about it, They're always talking about it, They're always sort of making plans for the Righter Cup, Whereas I think we and the Team USA sometimes get to it a bit late, you know, And like I think, if I can get with my players more often, get them motivated, We'll have lots of dinners and I'll try to bump into them in the locker room and get out on tour and talk to them all on the phone and get us together and motivated and fully ready to go. By the time we get to Chicago, I think that will be a part of it. But I'm learning along the way. We'll find out at the end of September how I do. But I'm pretty excited about it.

01:00:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys, and you know, another topic for another day that was planned on here. You are obviously very involved in your architecture career at this point, Ogilvie Cocking, Mead o CM. You guys are the the renovation architects at Madina three, the host the host site of the President's Cup. It's honestly, it's a very unique situation where you are the away captain but played a big part in redesigning the course that everybody will for the most part be playing for the first time. I'm really excited as a Chicagoan for everybody to see the work you guys did at Madina three. I think it's really fantastic. What do you think the if there is any edge that that provides you guys, you know, in terms of Madina three and the redesign.

01:01:56
Speaker 2: Well, I mean also I think clearly there's an age going into the tournament because I know the course pretty intimately. I mean, I sort of I know what's under the turf there, you know. And I know our intent as far as how we thought sort of this level of golfer would play the course and maybe have some pretty good ideas about the best way to navigate, you know, a lot of the golf holes. But I've thought about this. I mean, look, and I think my team might feel like a little bit of ownership over the course because they're like, oh, ow, captain, he's part of this, you know, like he helped build this sort of golf course. So I think there's a there's sort of an inbuilt advantage there. But if if professional golfers are anything, there very very good at learning golf courses quickly, you know. I mean part of the job is you turn up on Tuesday morning, you learn a golf course, and by Thursday you know the golf course, and and pros are very good at doing that. But I think whatever advantage we turn up with on Monday of the week, by Thursday, it'll be nullified. I would think. I think one of our advantages, and like a big part of these tournaments now is that the data. There's no shot link data for Madonna Number three because it's brand new, so they won't be able to pour through numbers and sort of assess what's going to have success and what's not going to have success. It's going to learn along the way. But I think look Brandt and his team, they'll learn that course pretty quick. They might take a scouting trip there early, but by Thursday, I think that'll be a bit nullified. But I think on Monday we would have an advantage. I think by Thursday, like it'll be pretty neutral. But it's nice. It's a cool side effect, and I think the membership seems to really like us, so I think a bunch of the Madonna members will be on our team, which will be kine of nice.

01:03:54
Speaker 1: I felt like this happened with the Royal Melbourne Writer or President's Cup, where you guys had like a distinct advantage on Thursday into Friday, and then it was like clear that they had started to pick up how to play, you know, and obviously, as we talked about on this pod, it's a different golf, like you're not prepared for it until you played it, And it was the first time a lot of those guys had played on the Sam Belton and Madonna. It's Chicago Parkland golf, you know, it is definitely way way different than the last time they saw it in twenty nineteen. But it is Chicago Parkland Golf still, it's an American golf course. Is there a particular hole that or you know, feature of the course that you're keen to see play out?

01:04:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, quite a few. I mean I think so we're tearing off number Madonna number five. The Madonna's fifth hol is gonna be the first hole in the President's Cup, and then it's going to go all the way around to the fourth. It just fits better think with all the infrastructure, and I think that's going to be a fascinating first T shot. That's where we put the We put the out of bounds fans, the old post and rail fence up the left. It's right on the edge of the fairway. The hole is going to ask a question, you really want to hit it up close up the left, take the fence on a little bit to get a nice angle into the green. But I think it's gonna be a fascinating match play first hole because the guy who hits, who has the honor, has a decision to make. Well, if I take this on and hit a good T shirt, well I'm make I sort of forcing forcing the second guy to hit driver. But if you take it on and hit out of bounds, you're giving the hole away. And we know how hard those first t shots are in those tournaments. I mean, that's the most nervous these golfers ever are. So the first t is going to be a really fun thing to watch because there's such a prevalent out of bounds hasard off the first tee. And it's going to look great. It's a good looking hole. I think from where all the big stand amphitheater is going to be built. I think Madonna's eighth hole, which will play as the fourth, that's going to be really interesting. I mean it's kind of driveable. It's like three twenty three thirty from the back tee. If they move the tea up a little bit, the whole field will be able to get there. But I'm not convinced yet that that's the right play. I think you could hit anything from a six iron to a driver. Anyone who misses the green right's going to have problems. And again in match play, the guy in front of you hits driver and he misses it right of the green. Well, now the guy who was following he might have been going for the green, but now he hits a six onn because the guy he knows the guy's missed it in a bad spot. That's going to be a cool match playhole. And Madonna's sixteen, which is going to play as twelve, I think. I mean it's that the brand new hole across the water Kpe hole sort of bite off as much as you can chew. I hope the tour moves the te forward a little bit so the green is on so people can go for the green. That again, is going to be a really the guy. I feel like on a lot of these whole the cool holes. I think in match player, the holes where the guy who's hitting first is actually at a disadvantage, which is not always true. But if you've got holes like without a bounds of water, where there's big decisions to make, the guy who hits first, he kind of has to sort of play the middle ground, you know, like if he gets super aggressive and gets it wrong, then he loses the hole instantly, just gives the hole away, And you don't really want to do that, but if you go really conservative, it's like you kind of you're putting yourself in a big disadvantage. So I think it's going to be fascinating. The strategy. I'd say one President's Cup, ordering one, four, and twelve. I think you're going to be really interesting holes to watch the whole field come through, to see how all that unfolds.

01:07:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with all those selections. The outer bounds of the first t I think it's I think the right field lines, you know, to use a baseball expression, the right field is gonna be a popular place for foul balls that day especially. Yeah, it's it's gonna be really fun. I'm excited to see kind of how the international team develops this year. I think you've you've put up some good fights, and I think there's more talent than than ever internationally available. Is there is there a player you're keen for their year this year?

01:08:36
Speaker 2: Lots of them? Look, I mean, we'd love Handeki to get to Hedekie's best, you know, he was he seems to sort of like everybody like have great years and so last year wasn't. He's probably strongest year. He started really well.

01:08:48
Speaker 1: We'd love to see got the hero too. Yeah he did, he get the Hero.

01:08:53
Speaker 2: That's a song for next year. Highfully, I mean he's a start and he we'd love to see a deckie at his best. I mean, clearly we'd love to have Adam Scott in the team. I mean, he's all class. If he gets to the team, he'll be playing his twelfth President's Cup, which is unbelievable. This year he might be playing his hundredth for major in a row or something, I mean, which is kind of nuts. Yeah.

01:09:16
Speaker 1: So he qualified for was it the Open with the Australian Open finish?

01:09:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's definitely in the Masters obviously, he's he got in the Open at the austrain Open. I assure he'll get in the PGA because he's well ranked. So if he can get the US Open, he'll get another four in a row, which will be astonishing. Yeah, all of them. Look seaweek Kim. We love seawek Kim. We're excited. It seems like he's definitely a PGA to a player going forward. That was a pretty exciting development. He came down to Australia, he texted me and said, hey, can I get in the Australia Open. He texted me really late and I'm like, yeah, we can. I reckon I can work that out. He came down, he played really well. I think he locked up his master spot and he got an open spot. So see what was obviously a great part of our team. Look all of them like all the like. I love to see Jason Day continue. He played great the last couple of years. Love to see him play really well. Corey Connors, love to see him win a couple of tournaments. You know, he is such a class player. He's up there every week. So a lot of them. I mean, I'm gonna be watching them all.

01:10:23
Speaker 1: Last question, uh, do you are you are you gonna see are you gonna go out at all for the you know, the world's greatest food scene in Chicago for any dinners? Is that gonna you mentioned food is a big part of planning for all these people. Are you gonna pease them with you know, the maybe the world's best food city.

01:10:44
Speaker 2: Well, wow, that's a that's a good, big statement.

01:10:47
Speaker 1: Everybody's gonna call me out on I'm a homer.

01:10:53
Speaker 2: You've got no more friends in New York? Now, yeah, we will try look at these this. Look, these events are a bit of a I mean, pulling twelve players and wives and taking thirty people into a restaurant. It's not the easiest thing to do, but will certainly be trying our best to to share the Chicago's great food. One thing is, though, the Chicago hot dog confuses me a little bit. It seems to be different from everyone else's hot dog. You're not allowed to put ketchup on it, but you put everything else in the kitchen on it.

01:11:26
Speaker 1: That it was it. It became really popular in the Great Depression because it had all the nutrients you needed for a meal, like with the pickles, the peppers, the onion, you got your veggies, you got everything in the meal. That's kind of the origins of the Chicago heart dog.

01:11:44
Speaker 2: But no ketchup. A proper Chicago person doesn't put ketchup on right.

01:11:47
Speaker 1: No ketchup. You know, it's hard for me. I'm not a big mustard fan. I think you'll find there's a lot of Chicagoans that make changes to their Chicago hot dogs, and I don't really likes so I'm kind of more of like, I like onions peppers on my dog.

01:12:06
Speaker 2: So that sounds like a New York I'll talk to me, Well, you.

01:12:09
Speaker 1: Gotta do Italian beef, you know. That's that's something you got to do one day. Even though that's that wouldn't fit in a lot of these the modern about nutrition plants. You gotta get pizza, you know, these these are easy things, you know, getting pizza too. The team room, that's easy. So and who knows, maybe maybe one of our friends of the restaurant in industry will be able to help you out with like a private room at one of the places.

01:12:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're definitely gonna We're excited for the wake. It's great too. It's strangely enough, like we were talking about travel earlier, it's like we very rarely get to stay in a place like downtown Chicago when you play golf, and one of the great cities of the world. So I'm sure we're gonna have a great wake. It's gonna be it's gonna be pretty cool, awesome.

01:12:55
Speaker 1: Well, we'll talk, we'll talk in the new year. Have a great holidays, and as always, thanks for coming on the pod a couple of times this year. We'll look forward to talking more in the future in a big year for you, and really looking forward to the President's Cup in Chicago.

01:13:11
Speaker 2: So absolutely yeah, And he saw on the spin fun.

01:13:26
Speaker 1: Big day for our our producer PJA not only had to produce this podcast, but our year review series over at Shotgun Start if you're into pro golf and like some laughs. We dived through that. We had a surprise call in over there with Rory McElroy who called in joined us for I don't know, probably about thirty minutes, right peach plus or minus thirty, you know. So anyways, check that out if you're looking for more stuff to listen to. Year Review is really fun there and big thanks to PJ for editing and producing all of this audio uh late late into the year. We me and him are are looking forward to our our holiday break here, so we will be back next week, last podcast of the year. We're excited we've got to return guest, and I hope everybody has a safe and wonderful holiday season. Big thanks to everybody who's uh, who's listening to podcasts from us this year. UH, it makes our world go around, so so thank you and uh and we'll talk to you next week.