Hellraiser (1987)

<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to the All Eighties Movies Podcast, the
<v Speaker 1>podcast where we talk about the blockbusters, stuff loops, and
<v Speaker 1>everything in between. One of the freshest decades for movies,
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen eighties. I'm your host Bill Bant Long with
<v Speaker 1>me on this journey revisiting eighties movies is by co
<v Speaker 1>host Jason Massek.
<v Speaker 2>Hello, Jason, I want to hear him confess himself. Then
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe, But if you cheat us, we'll tear your
<v Speaker 2>soul apart.
<v Speaker 1>That's right, listeners, we're discussing with spoilers of plenty the
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty seven supernatural horror movie hell Raiser, who was
<v Speaker 1>produced by Film Futures and distributed by Entertainment Film distribut
<v Speaker 1>The movie stars Andrew Robinson, Claire Higgins, Ashley Lawrence, and
<v Speaker 1>Doug Bradley. Written directed by Clive Barker, this movie is
<v Speaker 1>rated R with the running time of one hour and
<v Speaker 1>thirty four minutes. It is based on Barker's nineteen eighty
<v Speaker 1>six novella The hell Bound Heart. So what is this
<v Speaker 1>movie about? What's on the box if you grew up
<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen eighties, and what's your local video store
<v Speaker 1>to rent this movie? You would find this description on
<v Speaker 1>the back of the VHS box. It is what's on
<v Speaker 1>the box. Take it away, Jason.
<v Speaker 2>From beyond the outer darkness, from the blackest corners of
<v Speaker 2>a family's past, from the nightmarish realm of the imagination,
<v Speaker 2>comes Hell Raiser. An old family home holds untold mysteries
<v Speaker 2>and horrors for Larry Cotton and his wife Julia. Floorboards
<v Speaker 2>that rattle, rooms that absorb blood, the heavy and haunting
<v Speaker 2>air of things long past and better left forgotten, all
<v Speaker 2>fueled by the fugitive spirit of Larry's brother Frank, who
<v Speaker 2>hovers halfway between this world and the next, between extreme
<v Speaker 2>pleasure and excres cruciating pain, and between family devotion and
<v Speaker 2>a deadly instinct for survival. Slowly, the old family home
<v Speaker 2>begins to swallow the Cottons, and there is no escape
<v Speaker 2>for Secret alliances and murderous deductions have been made which
<v Speaker 2>will propel the Cotton family into the horrifying and shocking
<v Speaker 2>conclusion of.
<v Speaker 1>Hell razor Hell Raiser. So that was what's on the box.
<v Speaker 2>Sorry to cut you off, I just wanted to have
<v Speaker 2>a little commentary on that. I thought that was a
<v Speaker 2>pretty awful synopsis, to be honest, makes it sound like
<v Speaker 2>this is a haunted house movie does and it really
<v Speaker 2>doesn't tap into the actual story whatever it might be.
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's it was a really weird one. Like,
<v Speaker 2>it sounds good, it's not poorly written, it's hard to read,
<v Speaker 2>but doesn't do this movie service. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, quick,
<v Speaker 2>what's on the box commentary?
<v Speaker 1>Let's move on to our eighty snapshot as we highlight
<v Speaker 1>some of the creative forces from this movie. Jason, who
<v Speaker 1>do you have?
<v Speaker 2>I have our writer director klaw Wife Barker Mister Barker
<v Speaker 2>was born in Liverpool, England. He is an English writer, director,
<v Speaker 2>and visual artists, best known for his works in the
<v Speaker 2>genres of horror and dark fantasy. In the early days
<v Speaker 2>of his artistic career, he supported himself by working as
<v Speaker 2>a male prostitute. In nineteen seventy eight, he co founded
<v Speaker 2>a theater group called The Dog Company, among whose members
<v Speaker 2>was Doug Bradley, who later went on to star in
<v Speaker 2>Barker's hell Raiser movie series. As we Know. He came
<v Speaker 2>to prominence in the nineteen eighties, this being Clyde Barker
<v Speaker 2>with a series of short stories collectively named The Books
<v Speaker 2>of Blood which established him as a leading horror author.
<v Speaker 2>So here's his eighties snapshot. In nineteen eighty five, he
<v Speaker 2>published his debut novel, The Damnation Game, and the same
<v Speaker 2>year he wrote his first feature movie scripts Underworld from
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty five and Rawhead Rex from nineteen eighty six.
<v Speaker 2>The end effect of these two movies disappointed Barker so
<v Speaker 2>much that he decided to adapt his prose into a
<v Speaker 2>movie he would direct himself, leading to the creation of
<v Speaker 2>hell Raiser in nineteen eighty seven, which is based on
<v Speaker 2>his novella, as Bill mentioned, The hell Bound Heart. Then
<v Speaker 2>he moves on to the sequel, hell Bound hell Raiser two,
<v Speaker 2>where he gets a based on a story by credit,
<v Speaker 2>And that's in nineteen eighty eight, and that's pretty much
<v Speaker 2>his eighties highlights. Of course, all the hell Raiser sequels
<v Speaker 2>that would follow, he would also get the quote unquote
<v Speaker 2>based on characters by credit. Moving on, in nineteen ninety
<v Speaker 2>he directs and writes the screenplay for one of my
<v Speaker 2>cult favorites, Night Breed, which was based on his novel Cabal.
<v Speaker 2>Then in ninety two, Candyman Comes Out, and that was
<v Speaker 2>based on The Forbidden which was one of the books
<v Speaker 2>of Blood short stories written by Barker. In ninety five,
<v Speaker 2>Lord of Illusions comes out, which he directed and wrote
<v Speaker 2>the screenplay for, and that was also based on one
<v Speaker 2>of his stories, The Last Illusion He Gets that based
<v Speaker 2>on characters by credit for some of the Candyman sequels.
<v Speaker 2>Beyond that, he's done some writing for various video games,
<v Speaker 2>TV episodes, and at one point he actually lost control
<v Speaker 2>of the Hell Raiser franchise, but regained it in twenty
<v Speaker 2>twenty and then there was a remake of Hell Razer
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty two, for which he has an executive
<v Speaker 2>producer credit. Clive Barker primarily known as an author for
<v Speaker 2>the Books of Blood short story series, also those works
<v Speaker 2>such as the Damnation game, We've World Cabal, the Hell
<v Speaker 2>Raiser series, Books of the Art series, and the Books
<v Speaker 2>of Abarat series. Clive Barker man of many talents.
<v Speaker 1>All Right, so I went with Ashley Lawrence. So. Ashley
<v Speaker 1>Lawrence is an American actress best known for her role
<v Speaker 1>as Kirsty Cotton in Hell Raser. She began her career
<v Speaker 1>on television with her curring role on the CBS soap
<v Speaker 1>opera Capitol. In guest appearances on shows like Highway to
<v Speaker 1>Heaven and Hunter. Her breakout role came with hell Raiser,
<v Speaker 1>a role she reprised in hell Bound hell Raser two,
<v Speaker 1>earning her a lasting play and horror history. Throughout the
<v Speaker 1>late eighties and nineties, Lawrence continued to take on genre roles,
<v Speaker 1>appearing in the horror anthology Monsters, the Lovecraft inspired Lurking Fear,
<v Speaker 1>and the supernatural thriller Warlock three The End of Innocence.
<v Speaker 1>She also took on dramatic and genre bending roles in
<v Speaker 1>projects like Er Hercules, The Legendary Journeys Beyond Belief, Fact
<v Speaker 1>or Fiction, and the indie film Lightning Bug. In addition
<v Speaker 1>to her live action work, Lawrence expanded into voice acting
<v Speaker 1>with her debut as Missy Carter in the atmospheric video
<v Speaker 1>game The Vanishing of Ethan Carter. She returned to voice
<v Speaker 1>work in twenty twenty for adult swims twisted animated comedy
<v Speaker 1>JJ Villard's Fairy Tales at California Native Ashley Lawrence continues
<v Speaker 1>to be a cult favorite in the horror community and
<v Speaker 1>a versatile painter and artist. So actress Ashley Lawrence.
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad you picked her, Bill Bantt, because she's good.
<v Speaker 2>She's good in this and I immediate is when you
<v Speaker 2>chose her? I had to go of course, and just
<v Speaker 2>doing general research look at her filmography and what and
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad she continues to work because I thought she
<v Speaker 2>was quick. Goodness.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, she's definitely highlighted this one. So this leads us
<v Speaker 1>to our earliest memories of the movie, Jason, why don't
<v Speaker 1>you start us off?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Absolutely. For me, the earliest memories are, well, my
<v Speaker 2>fascination with the mind and or worlds created by Clive
<v Speaker 2>Barker and this just strange, weird, wild darkness of the
<v Speaker 2>images provided by this film, Hell Raiser. I don't recall
<v Speaker 2>when or where with whom I saw this film, but
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see it in the theater, but it had
<v Speaker 2>some pull or allure for me, so I saw it
<v Speaker 2>on cable, probably a few years after it came out,
<v Speaker 2>so I know I saw it, but I couldn't recollect
<v Speaker 2>much of the story beats. All I could remember was
<v Speaker 2>the quote what's your pleasure, mister Cotton, and we'll tell
<v Speaker 2>your soul. The pollards, of course, the puzzle box itself.
<v Speaker 2>I remembered the lead Cenobite, which is just a character
<v Speaker 2>that's indelible, you can never forget. And he would, of
<v Speaker 2>course then in the sequels come to be known as Pinhead.
<v Speaker 2>That's the great Doug Bradley portraying the lead cenobite in this,
<v Speaker 2>and I mean his voice, his presence, all the paraphernalia
<v Speaker 2>in this. There's just the hooks, the chains, the bodies
<v Speaker 2>being tortured and torn apart. Those are early memories, just
<v Speaker 2>these images, right. I just recall that the tone of
<v Speaker 2>this was so different from other horror films of the time,
<v Speaker 2>this supernatural blend that was rooted in sato masochism and
<v Speaker 2>sex and torture, and this vision of hell or some
<v Speaker 2>sort of hellish in between underworld. I found it all
<v Speaker 2>very intriguing and disturbing. So it was the look, the field,
<v Speaker 2>the gore, the gross out factor and who is this
<v Speaker 2>Clive Barker guy that thought this up? This is just
<v Speaker 2>what grabbed me as a kid, I remember a teenager.
<v Speaker 2>After this. I would then watch hell Bound hell Raiser
<v Speaker 2>too often on cable. That was a big cable watch
<v Speaker 2>for me. I watched that repeatedly, and now I think
<v Speaker 2>back and I'm like, wait, did I see the sequel first?
<v Speaker 2>Before the original I would soon then thereafter become a
<v Speaker 2>fan of Night Breed, as I mentioned, and it's just
<v Speaker 2>these dark worlds or other worlds that Barker creates that
<v Speaker 2>contain these creatures of wonderfully disturbed designs, and I immediately
<v Speaker 2>want to know their origins and their backstories, and the
<v Speaker 2>worlds have such a visceral connection to a human's like
<v Speaker 2>base instincts of pain and pleasure and violence. I recall
<v Speaker 2>being at the library and finding a copy of Cabal,
<v Speaker 2>which Night Breed is based on, and reading some passages
<v Speaker 2>and just got a feel for Barker's writing, which is wonderful.
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned doing the same when we were doing our
<v Speaker 2>Dead Zone podcast with the Stephen King novel. I just
<v Speaker 2>had this morbid curiosity. These stories sparked my imagination because
<v Speaker 2>of that supernatural, fantastical aspect, but they made me feel
<v Speaker 2>something on a primal level. So this is just different
<v Speaker 2>from a Friday the thirteenth or typical eighty slasher that
<v Speaker 2>I was always too scared to watch, or a summer
<v Speaker 2>camp teen murder movie. This was just a different type
<v Speaker 2>of creative that appealed to me. That these ideas just
<v Speaker 2>had a certain type of ingenuity, and I'll never forget
<v Speaker 2>later on in the mid nineties reading Barker's The Thief
<v Speaker 2>of Always, which I think is from ninety two, which
<v Speaker 2>I still reference to this day, especially the holiday House
<v Speaker 2>aspect of that book and the character of Rictus. It's wild,
<v Speaker 2>creepy stuff and it feels original and it's very seductive
<v Speaker 2>in a strange way. And anyway, that's my memories of
<v Speaker 2>connection to the Clyde Barker universe in specific regard to
<v Speaker 2>hell Raiser. One other early memory connection to this Hell
<v Speaker 2>Raiser universe is that I was a fan of Christopher
<v Speaker 2>Young's score for hell Raiser two specifically, and used some
<v Speaker 2>of that for my um that is University in Miami
<v Speaker 2>Student film the Audition. Love me some Hell Raiser, great stuff.
<v Speaker 2>Those are some of my early memories. Bill Bant, what
<v Speaker 2>say you yeah? For me?
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure if I saw these in order either,
<v Speaker 1>because I do remember seeing Hell Raiser available to rent,
<v Speaker 1>and I was just always passing that one because I'd
<v Speaker 1>find something else. And then I started watching them on
<v Speaker 1>late night cable, and I'll be honest, probably the one
<v Speaker 1>I would watch the most was hell Razer three, just
<v Speaker 1>because it had Terry Ferrell in it, and Paula Marshall,
<v Speaker 1>who had the hugest crush on and people are like,
<v Speaker 1>who the Hell's Paula Marshall. She really wasn't in a lot,
<v Speaker 1>but I was a big fan, so I think finally,
<v Speaker 1>when I was living in Florida and I was a
<v Speaker 1>member of the Dolphins, I had two roommates who happened
<v Speaker 1>to be Dolphins cheerleaders, so they knew I was the
<v Speaker 1>movie guy, and they're like, hey, Bill, go rent some
<v Speaker 1>horror movies. We'll do like a horror movie night. And
<v Speaker 1>I rented Hell Razer and Evil Dead, and according to them,
<v Speaker 1>I went over too. They didn't care for either, but
<v Speaker 1>I think I was arguing more with my roommates over
<v Speaker 1>Evil Dead. I was like, how can you not like
<v Speaker 1>Evil Dead? Then with Hell Razer they didn't like either
<v Speaker 1>of those. I think they wanted more jump scary stuff.
<v Speaker 1>That was really the first time I watched Hell Razor
<v Speaker 1>all the way from beginning to end. I think I
<v Speaker 1>was always watching bits and pieces, and I don't think
<v Speaker 1>I ever got beyond Hell Raiser three. And it was
<v Speaker 1>kind of funny because watching it for this episode, I
<v Speaker 1>was watching it on two b and then it would
<v Speaker 1>just jump into another film in the series, and I
<v Speaker 1>think I would watch like ten minutes and go yeah, no, thanks.
<v Speaker 1>So this is definitely the one of the ones that
<v Speaker 1>I did like that I've seen all the way through.
<v Speaker 1>That's great, So shout out to Laurie and Nicole.
<v Speaker 2>Good stuff, man, I that's funny that you chose those two.
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's get into initial thoughts. What are initial
<v Speaker 1>thoughts of Hell Raiser all this time later?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, indeed, Well we get a nice running time here,
<v Speaker 2>Bill band of an hour and thirty three minutes. Not
<v Speaker 2>too bad.
<v Speaker 1>Best thing about horror movies.
<v Speaker 2>They're short and sweet, absolutely so no problem sitting through
<v Speaker 2>the opening credits of this one for me because of
<v Speaker 2>that score by Christopher Young. I love the music for this, agreed.
<v Speaker 2>It's haunting awesome. It is awesome, and it's got a
<v Speaker 2>triumphant sort of reoccurring theme loud horns and such and
<v Speaker 2>very big and bombastic. So and it captures that sort
<v Speaker 2>of fantastical quality of the well done Christopher Young and
<v Speaker 2>Bill Bann, I'm gonna want your thoughts on this because
<v Speaker 2>it's just a real interesting introduction of these characters in
<v Speaker 2>this film. We just really don't know anything about them.
<v Speaker 2>But the question is does it matter? So I'm going
<v Speaker 2>to go into this introduction here for those that either
<v Speaker 2>have or haven't seen this movie, or you haven't seen
<v Speaker 2>the movie in a long time. We only know and
<v Speaker 2>understand the relationships here in this beginning of the movie.
<v Speaker 2>So Frank Cotton, we see him in the beginning of
<v Speaker 2>this movie in some foreign country, at least it feels
<v Speaker 2>that way. We don't know where he is, but he's
<v Speaker 2>buying some sort of mysterious puzzle box and he seems
<v Speaker 2>actually somewhat desperate to have it. He pays a lot
<v Speaker 2>of money for it. We know nothing about who he is,
<v Speaker 2>or what he does, or where he's from. We just
<v Speaker 2>know here's a dude, he wants a box. Then all
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden cuts to him in a different room,
<v Speaker 2>which it feels like an attic or something with just
<v Speaker 2>floorboards and paneled walls, and he opens the box and
<v Speaker 2>the sparks fly. It's a puzzle box he manages to open,
<v Speaker 2>and that all of a sudden, these chains start flying
<v Speaker 2>out of the box with hooks on the end, and
<v Speaker 2>they come out and it pierced his skin and they're
<v Speaker 2>starting to tear them apart, and then it's another hard cut,
<v Speaker 2>basically to the house. I skipped one part with the
<v Speaker 2>centobites appearing, and they're putting Frank back together again. This
<v Speaker 2>moves very quickly in the beginning, and it cuts to
<v Speaker 2>then the house, which now we has no Frank in it,
<v Speaker 2>but we can see that he may have been squatting
<v Speaker 2>there for some time. And we were introduced to the
<v Speaker 2>characters of Larry and Julia Cotton, and they have now
<v Speaker 2>entered the house, and we learned that apparently this house
<v Speaker 2>belonged to Larry's mother, it was in their family, and
<v Speaker 2>now they're going to move into this house, but we
<v Speaker 2>don't know where it's located. I don't know bill is
<v Speaker 2>it in the suburbs of New York State. There's a
<v Speaker 2>mention of Brooklyn. Julia says, well, at least it's not Brooklyn.
<v Speaker 2>We don't know who these people are outside the fact
<v Speaker 2>that Larry says he's making a lot of money and
<v Speaker 2>supposedly this is Julia's old stomping ground or something there's
<v Speaker 2>an allusion to. But we know they're married and Julia
<v Speaker 2>isn't too keen on the condition of this house. They're
<v Speaker 2>about to move into. And then we get introduced to
<v Speaker 2>Christy played by Ashley Lawrence, who is Larry's daughter. She
<v Speaker 2>comes into town and she's rented a room. I don't
<v Speaker 2>know where this room is or whatnot, but it's nearby
<v Speaker 2>this house where we don't know where that is, and
<v Speaker 2>we know she doesn't want to stay at the house
<v Speaker 2>because she has some weird relationship with Julia. But anyway,
<v Speaker 2>we don't know where Christy came from, or where the
<v Speaker 2>room is she's staying in now, or where she's why
<v Speaker 2>she's decided to visit at this time. But she's in
<v Speaker 2>town to visit her dad, so is she there to
<v Speaker 2>help them move in or I don't know. We learn
<v Speaker 2>that Christy's birth mother actually had died, and obviously now
<v Speaker 2>we know that Larry remarried to Julia, So okay, maybe
<v Speaker 2>a bit of a difficult relationship between Christy and Julia.
<v Speaker 2>We get that. And now we find out that Frank,
<v Speaker 2>the guy with the box from the beginning, has been
<v Speaker 2>squatting in the house and that he's actually Larry's brother,
<v Speaker 2>And through flashbacks, we learned that Julia had an affair
<v Speaker 2>with Frank just before she wed Larry, and she had
<v Speaker 2>an intense sexual obsession with Frank. It was one that
<v Speaker 2>was filled with either S and M or some violent aspects,
<v Speaker 2>and Frank flamed out in this affair he was having
<v Speaker 2>with Julia before she married Larry, and Frank goes off
<v Speaker 2>in a pursuit to discover some further source of intense
<v Speaker 2>and heightened form of pleasure, which we can assume led
<v Speaker 2>him to hearing about the puzzle box. So that's it.
<v Speaker 2>We don't know anything about these people really at all.
<v Speaker 2>It's just wild shit starts to happen in this house
<v Speaker 2>and we kind of just have to go with it.
<v Speaker 2>We accept it. My question is then, to you, Bill,
<v Speaker 2>does that work for you? The way the beginning kind
<v Speaker 2>of just rolls along and these people show up. We
<v Speaker 2>understand their relationship to one another, but we don't know
<v Speaker 2>anything else about them at all.
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's funny. I was gonna mention that this time.
<v Speaker 1>I actually like that it does, and we need to
<v Speaker 1>find out, along with everybody else, what is going on.
<v Speaker 1>It's literally he gets a box the table. It's like
<v Speaker 1>a thirty second scene and then boom, next thing you know,
<v Speaker 1>he's on the floor in some room surrounded by candles,
<v Speaker 1>so you just go, okay, this is kind of a
<v Speaker 1>cult thing. He opens a box and he gets tripped apart,
<v Speaker 1>and you're like, whoa, what the hell's going on? And
<v Speaker 1>all these crazy creatures show up. Well, I guess we'll
<v Speaker 1>just figure this out as the movie goes along. And
<v Speaker 1>I was okay with it. Yeah, Yeah, And sometimes I
<v Speaker 1>would say, no, I don't like that. I don't know
<v Speaker 1>what the hell's going on, what any of this means.
<v Speaker 1>But for this movie, it did work for me, okay,
<v Speaker 1>because there is just so bizarre that I wanted to
<v Speaker 1>find out over the course of the movie. I don't
<v Speaker 1>think I want it spelled out for me from the beginning.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think it's a good writing lesson too.
<v Speaker 2>When you're watching it, we really don't need all that information,
<v Speaker 2>And we don't need to know what Larry Cotton's job
<v Speaker 2>is specifically, or what Julia's job is, or what there
<v Speaker 2>pass is, where did Frank come from, why did he
<v Speaker 2>end up in Morocco or China wherever he was to
<v Speaker 2>purchase the box. We don't need to know all that.
<v Speaker 2>We just need to know that it happened, and then
<v Speaker 2>we're on with our story.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I like that the Asia man didn't give him
<v Speaker 1>any kind of warning, just kind of that oh it
<v Speaker 1>was always yours right. Normally that would happen, you know,
<v Speaker 1>there'd be some kind of warning like are you sure
<v Speaker 1>you want to delve into this world? And nope, we
<v Speaker 1>don't get that. He gets the box and next thing
<v Speaker 1>you know, he's trying to open.
<v Speaker 2>It and all hell breaks loose. Cool cool, all right. Well,
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was thinking back to our previous horror film,
<v Speaker 2>Child's Play, and again with this one. For me, the
<v Speaker 2>star of the movie really is the makeup and costume
<v Speaker 2>design and a lot of the visual effects here. I
<v Speaker 2>know you'll have something to say about this, Bill Bant.
<v Speaker 2>The effects here are pretty awesome in spots. There are
<v Speaker 2>some weaker spots as well, where it looks a little cheaper,
<v Speaker 2>and we may get into the trivia as far as
<v Speaker 2>there were some budgetary restraints on this film, but overall,
<v Speaker 2>there's some crazy crasy effects and some disturbing costume designs,
<v Speaker 2>and it is very very sato masochistic. There's just a
<v Speaker 2>lot of close ups of hooks piercing the flesh. There's
<v Speaker 2>huge creature which we'd later find out in Trivia. I
<v Speaker 2>heard was called the Engineer that's chasing Christy down the hallway,
<v Speaker 2>which is a monster I felt wasn't even necessary in
<v Speaker 2>this film. I don't know, what did you think of
<v Speaker 2>the effects and the makeup and costume design of this
<v Speaker 2>crazy movie.
<v Speaker 1>I thought they were amazing. This movie and I'll get
<v Speaker 1>into it later, only had a budget of a million
<v Speaker 1>dollars and what they were able to put on screen.
<v Speaker 1>Granted its eighties million dollars might go a little bit
<v Speaker 1>further than today, but still what they were able to
<v Speaker 1>do was really impressive. Yeah, the Engineer was probably the
<v Speaker 1>weakest thing outside of when Kirsty banishes all the centabytes
<v Speaker 1>at the end. That's explained because they literally at that
<v Speaker 1>point had zero money and they were kind of doing
<v Speaker 1>that on their own.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's, I mean, so much to talk about when
<v Speaker 2>it comes to the costumes. Eye I'm not going to
<v Speaker 2>get into it here. We will talk about it in
<v Speaker 2>Trivia somewhat. But the Cenobites themselves, they're costuming the where
<v Speaker 2>their look are extremely memorable. We've got Frank Cotton himself,
<v Speaker 2>which is he goes through quite a transformation, and I'm
<v Speaker 2>going to let Bill talk about that I'll talk about
<v Speaker 2>it a little bit too, probably in our favorite scenes.
<v Speaker 2>I think I'll step on my own complaint here. There
<v Speaker 2>was just sometimes when the hooks were they would do
<v Speaker 2>these close ups of the hooks piercing the flesh, like
<v Speaker 2>the cheeks and the body part that is clearly like latex.
<v Speaker 2>You could really see it didn't look like actual flesh.
<v Speaker 2>But I forgive that because of the budgetary restraints, but
<v Speaker 2>also because it's more of the idea it puts in
<v Speaker 2>your head because it just looks so awful. I mean,
<v Speaker 2>it's this body horror, it's this mutilation that's happening to
<v Speaker 2>these characters. Like that idea and that sort of that
<v Speaker 2>pain kind of grabs you in your mind, so you
<v Speaker 2>kind of gloss over the effect that the effect isn't
<v Speaker 2>totally effective. So moving along with more initial thoughts. Besides
<v Speaker 2>the standout of the effects and the makeup and costume design,
<v Speaker 2>I felt the actresses actually in this film where the
<v Speaker 2>standouts for me upon this rewatch as an adult. So
<v Speaker 2>shout out to both Claire Higgins, who portrays Julia Cotton,
<v Speaker 2>Larry's wife, and Ashley Lawrence who Bill mentioned, who plays
<v Speaker 2>Kirsty Cotton. It is Kirsty, not Christy, Kirsty Cotton. Claire
<v Speaker 2>Higgins as Julie, I thought she just really plays the
<v Speaker 2>sexuality and obsession with Frank Cotton extremely well. We have
<v Speaker 2>to believe she'll commit murder for this ghoulish character, and
<v Speaker 2>she does, although she is hesitant at first, but she
<v Speaker 2>plays the levels. I was only a little thrown off
<v Speaker 2>by her British accent, which seemed to kind of come
<v Speaker 2>and go, because there's a whole thing about that with
<v Speaker 2>using versus American actors in this film. But I thought
<v Speaker 2>she was quite good. I thought Ashley Lawrence really strong
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote final girl, if you will in this and
<v Speaker 2>I was yeah, like I said earlier, immediately asking did
<v Speaker 2>she go on to do anything else bigger and better?
<v Speaker 2>But she continually worked so good for Ashley Lawrence. The
<v Speaker 2>other actors in this bill banp for me were just fine.
<v Speaker 2>We have Andrew Robinson as Larry Cotton. He's pretty good.
<v Speaker 2>A shout out, of course, to Doug Bradley, who plays
<v Speaker 2>the iconic pinhead or he's only known as the lead
<v Speaker 2>Cenobite in this original film because Doug Bradley man, he's
<v Speaker 2>just got that low voice that dark, commanding, resounding quality,
<v Speaker 2>So he's impressive. Didn't know if you have any comments
<v Speaker 2>on the actors in this film.
<v Speaker 1>It's funny. My big complaint is Claire Higgins. I thought
<v Speaker 1>she was miscast. Really, yes, My issue was your point
<v Speaker 1>is right where you have to be convinced that she'll
<v Speaker 1>do this for Frank, and that part I do believe.
<v Speaker 1>But what I don't believe is that her and Larry
<v Speaker 1>would ever be a couple. To me, she seems like
<v Speaker 1>the poor woman's Meg Foster. I kept looking at her.
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, Wow, I'd rather have Meg Foster in this,
<v Speaker 1>because you know how much I not hate Meg Foster,
<v Speaker 1>but I hate the role she always plays because she
<v Speaker 1>always plays someone so mean. And I'm like, oh, she'd
<v Speaker 1>be perfect for this.
<v Speaker 2>That's a good call, and that's a great call. I
<v Speaker 2>hate to go.
<v Speaker 1>The looks were oute, but I didn't find clear that attractive.
<v Speaker 1>I understand why Frank would have an affair with Julia,
<v Speaker 1>because Frank would sleep with anything, didn't matter that he
<v Speaker 1>just had an obsession for that kind of behavior. But
<v Speaker 1>if I saw Julia sitting alone at a bar, I'm
<v Speaker 1>not going up to her.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Hey, you're just being honest and she just doesn't
<v Speaker 2>specific taste. Okay, I found her. I'm on the opposite
<v Speaker 2>end with this.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I just think she's so cold. I don't
<v Speaker 1>see what Larry sees in her at all. I don't
<v Speaker 1>see it. And I still understand how Larry so oblivious
<v Speaker 1>to it too.
<v Speaker 2>Hmm, Okay, fair enough, we accept your opinion here. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I'm on the opposite end. I thought thought it worked
<v Speaker 2>because she was so kind of cold toward Larry and
<v Speaker 2>the fact that then when you see the flashbacks with
<v Speaker 2>her and Frank, you see how completely taken she is
<v Speaker 2>with him being the sort of right sexually aggressive bad
<v Speaker 2>book don't get married. Yeah, they it's a good point.
<v Speaker 2>There's no she should definitely the married Frank's brother right
<v Speaker 2>after their affair. Yeah, okay, Well, moving along in regards
<v Speaker 2>to this budgetary restant, It's interesting that this film, which
<v Speaker 2>feels so huge on a fantastical level, the fantasy and
<v Speaker 2>the dark world aspect of it, the film's really contained.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we barely go outside of the house, and
<v Speaker 2>when we do, it's really weird the choice of shots
<v Speaker 2>and sequences they choose to show us. But we barely
<v Speaker 2>go outside the house. There's really only two or three locations,
<v Speaker 2>like the hospital, the house.
<v Speaker 1>The pet store.
<v Speaker 2>The pet store. Right, But here's one thought I had,
<v Speaker 2>Bill ban. One would think that the hell Raiser House
<v Speaker 2>might have become iconic after this, but this it's not
<v Speaker 2>really known as one of those classic houses from horror movies,
<v Speaker 2>is it not?
<v Speaker 1>To my knowledge? But again, they shot this over seas, right,
<v Speaker 1>That was going to be in my next comment. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>so maybe that's why we don't see a lot of
<v Speaker 1>people posting about it. I don't even know where they
<v Speaker 1>shot it.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't come across that either. It's in England though somewhere.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I have no idea even what part.
<v Speaker 2>So that adds to the creepiness for me, Bill Bank,
<v Speaker 2>This film just feels strange overall. It's very off putting
<v Speaker 2>and upsetting, but in a good weird way for horror film,
<v Speaker 2>because there's just an overall strangers it just it doesn't
<v Speaker 2>have any big name actors in it. It's shot in England.
<v Speaker 2>It feels like a foreign horror film a little bit.
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, just kind of added into that whole creep
<v Speaker 2>factor for me, and even adding more and more to
<v Speaker 2>the creep factors that they wanted to have the actors
<v Speaker 2>be American for some reason, and so there's some really
<v Speaker 2>strange adr like overdubbing for Frank Cotton's character because it
<v Speaker 2>was an English actor. And I know I'm stepping on
<v Speaker 2>some trivia here, but that was just an initial thought.
<v Speaker 2>I'm watching this, this is weird. This one character is
<v Speaker 2>clearly being dubbed, and so when he was talking, that
<v Speaker 2>just threw me off. So this whole movie just gave
<v Speaker 2>me some creepy feelings. So I'll say right now, this
<v Speaker 2>film still works for me on that dark fantasy level.
<v Speaker 2>It still manages to creep into the dark corners of
<v Speaker 2>my mind and make me intrigue just to want to
<v Speaker 2>know what this world is, what the fuck is happening
<v Speaker 2>within it. But watching it as an adult, you can
<v Speaker 2>see some limitations because of the budget. But there's just
<v Speaker 2>a couple of sequences in here that are outstanding and
<v Speaker 2>you're like, how the hell did they do it? We'll
<v Speaker 2>get into it. I won't get into too much detail
<v Speaker 2>right now, but the design of the puzzle box itself
<v Speaker 2>the deeper I just want to go into this whole
<v Speaker 2>world and go into all the fandom wiki stuff and
<v Speaker 2>if you wanted to do a deep dive into the
<v Speaker 2>puzzle box, that's a lot of fun because that's got
<v Speaker 2>a whole history that they came up with a fiction
<v Speaker 2>behind it. I did have some issues with the fiction
<v Speaker 2>of this film story because it was the case of weight,
<v Speaker 2>did I miss something, there's some or there's some deleted
<v Speaker 2>scenes scenes. It was kind of the reminder we have
<v Speaker 2>Child's Play, which we just did Bill Bandt. There's some
<v Speaker 2>questions and holes in this and character choices that are
<v Speaker 2>confounding are questionable, and then we get to the end
<v Speaker 2>and the shit hits the fan, but it feels like
<v Speaker 2>it's just chaos for the sake of chaos, and that
<v Speaker 2>didn't quite work for me, and we'll talk about it.
<v Speaker 2>So it was a mixed bag for me on the
<v Speaker 2>first rewatch. However, ultimately, when I was watching it again
<v Speaker 2>to do notes and find our favorite scenes and moms,
<v Speaker 2>I come out in favor of this big time. It's imagination.
<v Speaker 2>It's singular, it's separate from the rest of the pack
<v Speaker 2>and the eighties horror films. For me, it may not
<v Speaker 2>hold together completely, but these ideas still get under my skin.
<v Speaker 2>I'm still captured by this concept. Those are just some
<v Speaker 2>of my initial thoughts. Did you want to add on
<v Speaker 2>to that, Yeah, if you have a.
<v Speaker 1>Weak stomach, I would not recommend Hell Razor if you've
<v Speaker 1>not seen it before. I don't know why. The first
<v Speaker 1>time I tried to watch it, I had made some nachos.
<v Speaker 1>I was like, Eh, this is not a good choice
<v Speaker 1>right now. But this movie is definitely gory. The special
<v Speaker 1>effects are impressive, and I agree with you to all
<v Speaker 1>the skin stuff. Yeah, that didn't work too great either.
<v Speaker 2>I like that it is.
<v Speaker 1>An original mythology, and you know, we meet all these
<v Speaker 1>Cinnabite characters and they're interdimensional beings obsessed with pain and pleasure,
<v Speaker 1>and you don't know where they're really from. Are they
<v Speaker 1>from one of the levels of hell? Where they come from?
<v Speaker 1>Are are they their own thing? I don't know. The
<v Speaker 1>Cinnabytes themselves are cool. You have Pinhead, the lead Lady Cinnabyte,
<v Speaker 1>the chatterbox guy, the bet Sky with the cool glasses,
<v Speaker 1>butter Ball. Yes. I was really a fan of Ashley
<v Speaker 1>Lawrence in this. I feel like she does kind of
<v Speaker 1>ground the film. She is the one character to me
<v Speaker 1>that that really works, and because of her, that's why
<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed the movie. There's just a lot of weird stuff.
<v Speaker 1>There's just so many things about this that are different
<v Speaker 1>from typical horror movies that we cover. It's usually just
<v Speaker 1>hack and slash, and this really gets into the exploration
<v Speaker 1>of obsession, the power of compulsion, temptation, what the cost
<v Speaker 1>is of seeking a forbidden experience. And I found this
<v Speaker 1>one line that I thought was great. It goes curiosity
<v Speaker 1>doesn't always lead to answers, Sometimes it opens doors. You
<v Speaker 1>can't close this this movie to a t right. It's
<v Speaker 1>definitely something unique and the fact that it just kind
<v Speaker 1>of scratches to the surface of the mythology makes you
<v Speaker 1>want to know more. And unfortunately, I know the other
<v Speaker 1>movies went in such weird directions that didn't capture what
<v Speaker 1>this base. The foundation that this movie sets, you were
<v Speaker 1>to only to watch this one and know of none
<v Speaker 1>of the others. I think it does what it needs
<v Speaker 1>to do overall as a horror movie. Mm hm, So
<v Speaker 1>that's my initial thoughts. All right, let's get in two
<v Speaker 1>favorite scenes or moments. What are some of our favorite
<v Speaker 1>scenes of moments from Hell Raiser.
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about it, Bill Bandon, I should tell our
<v Speaker 2>audience I've wanted to do this film for a long time.
<v Speaker 2>I think I've always brought it up on our lists
<v Speaker 2>when we're figuring out our schedules. So I thank you
<v Speaker 2>Bill for coming around too. And it's not that you
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to do this, but I'm glad we are
<v Speaker 2>finally doing it. I finally relent it because I have
<v Speaker 2>my own obsession with this film. But yeah, it's interesting
<v Speaker 2>because I was just thinking upon our initial thoughts combined,
<v Speaker 2>and I'm glad you brought up the Centabites a little bit,
<v Speaker 2>because if there's people listening to this I haven't seen
<v Speaker 2>this film for any reason, they'd be like, I still
<v Speaker 2>have no idea what this movie is about. What are
<v Speaker 2>they talking about? There's no concrete foundation, like real thing
<v Speaker 2>to hold on to. What are cenobites? What is this
<v Speaker 2>puzzle box? What is happening in this movie? Well we'll
<v Speaker 2>get into it a little bit here with our favorite
<v Speaker 2>scenes and moments, But my first favorite scene is the
<v Speaker 2>reincarnation of Frank Cotton, or in the research, I believe
<v Speaker 2>they call it the birthing scene. So up to this point,
<v Speaker 2>we do know that Frank Cotton went to a foreign
<v Speaker 2>country to seek the ultimate forms of pleasure and in
<v Speaker 2>any way he could find it, and somehow his search
<v Speaker 2>or research led him to this merchant who sold him
<v Speaker 2>this puzzle box. So when we see in the open
<v Speaker 2>that Frank Cotton plays with this puzzle box a little
<v Speaker 2>bit manages to open it and unleashes an basically other
<v Speaker 2>world which could be described as hell. We're not sure,
<v Speaker 2>but what has happened is he had gone to his
<v Speaker 2>home or I should say his mother's home where he
<v Speaker 2>was squatting, went into a room, opened the box and
<v Speaker 2>opened up this whole other world of sato masochistic pain
<v Speaker 2>and pleasure, and he gets torn apart literally And what
<v Speaker 2>ends up happening is that his guts are actually basically
<v Speaker 2>attached underneath the floorboards of this room because when his
<v Speaker 2>destruction occurred, one of the cenobytes that had appeared and
<v Speaker 2>we do get to see the cenobytes near the beginning
<v Speaker 2>of the film. They don't speak, but we have the
<v Speaker 2>lead cenobite, we have the female cetabite, we have the chatterer,
<v Speaker 2>and we have Butterball. And these are four very specific looking,
<v Speaker 2>crazy looking cenobites that are basically the protectors or guardians
<v Speaker 2>of this realm, and they enforce this pain and pleasure
<v Speaker 2>upon the victims that decide to enter this world. And
<v Speaker 2>they are putting together the pieces of Frank Cotton after
<v Speaker 2>they just him, and we see the lead cenobite put
<v Speaker 2>the puzzle box like back together, and then all of
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, this otherworldly, hellish landscape disappears, and now the
<v Speaker 2>room which Frank Cotton was in in his mother's house
<v Speaker 2>returns to normal, is just a bare room. It's completely empty.
<v Speaker 2>Now cut to Larry Cotton, Frank's brother, and Larry's wife,
<v Speaker 2>Julia Cotton, are going to move into this house. And
<v Speaker 2>when they're moving in, Larry manages to cut his hand
<v Speaker 2>on a rusty nail that's protruding from a column somewhere,
<v Speaker 2>and he goes up to Julia into this room where
<v Speaker 2>Frank had performed as ritual with the box previous, and
<v Speaker 2>he shows his hand to Julia, and at this point
<v Speaker 2>Julia is just standing there and it's like, I'll help you,
<v Speaker 2>which she does, but it doesn't prevent the fact that
<v Speaker 2>his blood is dripping all over these floorboards in this room.
<v Speaker 2>And after Larry and Julia exit, we see that the
<v Speaker 2>floorboards in this room start to absorb the blood, and
<v Speaker 2>the camera lores beneath the floorboards and we see what
<v Speaker 2>we can assume are again these literal guts of Frank
<v Speaker 2>sticking to the boards underneath. And when these guts, particularly
<v Speaker 2>that the heart I assume is what we're looking at,
<v Speaker 2>absorbs this blood from Larry, it begins to inflate and deflate. Now, meanwhile,
<v Speaker 2>Larry's daughter Kirsty played by Ashley Lawrence, takes her dad
<v Speaker 2>to the hospital for stitches in his hand that he
<v Speaker 2>tore apart with that nail. And it cuts back to
<v Speaker 2>this what I'm just calling the hell room. And now
<v Speaker 2>the floorboards are starting to shake. Bubbles of goo are forming,
<v Speaker 2>and suddenly two separate bones shoot upward through this goo,
<v Speaker 2>through the floorboards, and we soon see that they are arms.
<v Speaker 2>They're arms of a bone, and they bend at the elbows,
<v Speaker 2>and what we're watching is a human skeletal form emerging
<v Speaker 2>from the floor. This is an insane sequence. The effects
<v Speaker 2>in the makeup are wonderful. We see the formation of
<v Speaker 2>this person's hands. There's some flesh forming, it's blood mixed
<v Speaker 2>with the goo. We see a human brain taking formation,
<v Speaker 2>the brain stem connects to the brain. It's all intercut
<v Speaker 2>with these rats up in this room, cowering and climbing
<v Speaker 2>over one another, and we finally see this human skeleton
<v Speaker 2>covered in goo push itself upward and it emits this
<v Speaker 2>horrible scream, And because we know what had happened previous,
<v Speaker 2>we can assume that this is Frank Cotton's body coming
<v Speaker 2>back to life. And this all happens backed by the
<v Speaker 2>great score of Christopher Young. The music is outstanding as
<v Speaker 2>this is happening, and it's not a long sequence, and
<v Speaker 2>I've watched it several times now. It's like watching a
<v Speaker 2>train wreck. You can't keep your eyes off of it
<v Speaker 2>because of how it's shot. A lot of it and
<v Speaker 2>I won't step on too much trivia here, but how
<v Speaker 2>this particular skeleton, in the flesh and the goo we'll
<v Speaker 2>come together literally out of the floor, is pretty wild.
<v Speaker 2>What do you think about this whole sequence? Bill Oh?
<v Speaker 1>I had this down as one of my favorites also,
<v Speaker 1>and I like how it's set up where Larry cuts
<v Speaker 1>himself and he's screamings about blood, so of course he's
<v Speaker 1>got to find Julia and he's bleeding out and dripping
<v Speaker 1>all over the floor and they're inner cutting with the
<v Speaker 1>blood literally being seaked into the wood m h. And
<v Speaker 1>then all of a sudden, like you said, the scoo
<v Speaker 1>starts pulling out and you're like, what the hell is
<v Speaker 1>going on? And it takes a while for you to
<v Speaker 1>figure out, Oh, this is Frank being brought back from
<v Speaker 1>wherever he was right and watching it some of the stuff,
<v Speaker 1>I could figure out how they could do it, you know,
<v Speaker 1>some of it has stopped motion, some of it's puppetry,
<v Speaker 1>but there is a couple of those shots. I'm like,
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how they figured this out with eighties
<v Speaker 1>special effects. It's a wild sequence. You can't keep your
<v Speaker 1>eyes off that. If you're a horror fan, you just
<v Speaker 1>keep watching over and over because I'm like, all right,
<v Speaker 1>how did they do this? It's really disgusting. I need
<v Speaker 1>to put my nachos down and just see what happens next.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it'll turn your stomach for sure. It made me
<v Speaker 2>think of the wonderful transformation sequence from American were Wolf
<v Speaker 2>in London, because that's just one of the classic all
<v Speaker 2>time transformation sequences. But this is not even a transformation.
<v Speaker 2>This is more of a reincarnation, Like this is a berth.
<v Speaker 2>So it's good. From nothing to everything. We just watch
<v Speaker 2>and it appears that it's a lot of it was
<v Speaker 2>shot in reverse, but you're watching flesh come to life
<v Speaker 2>and cover parts of the body, or the brain forming
<v Speaker 2>and the bones starting to come together, and you see
<v Speaker 2>his rib cage and then there's sort of like guts
<v Speaker 2>inside of it and covered in goo and he's dripping,
<v Speaker 2>and then all of a sudden, the final shot is
<v Speaker 2>just like the upper half of his torso rib cage,
<v Speaker 2>his bony arms and skull just screaming out in anguish
<v Speaker 2>or pain, and it's a horrific sequence, and the music
<v Speaker 2>is building and you're just like, what the fuck is
<v Speaker 2>happening this week?
<v Speaker 1>Because at first you think it's a creature, Yeah, exactly,
<v Speaker 1>And then it takes you a while like, oh wait,
<v Speaker 1>that's a person, and oh that's probably Frank so I
<v Speaker 1>like that too. That not sure what is happening at first,
<v Speaker 1>and then oh, okay, all right, I think I got it. Now.
<v Speaker 2>It's a lot of fun to watch. If you have
<v Speaker 2>a strong stomach, Yes, if.
<v Speaker 1>You have a strong sum you and I have the
<v Speaker 1>same three scenes.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was gonna let you take this next one.
<v Speaker 2>Or whatever you like.
<v Speaker 1>I would even say in scenes just monster Frank in general.
<v Speaker 1>So after that initial I called the Frank's Resurrection scene
<v Speaker 1>just the Frank effects makeup effects itself. I love every
<v Speaker 1>phase of it. So Julie comes back up to the
<v Speaker 1>attic at some point because you're having a dinner party,
<v Speaker 1>and she kind of excused herself. She goes upstairs and
<v Speaker 1>she goes into the attic, and then that's when she
<v Speaker 1>sees Frank for the first time since the affair, thinking
<v Speaker 1>he's somewhere else, and we see a there's enough of
<v Speaker 1>Frank where he has the full body, but he doesn't
<v Speaker 1>have enough use of his legs, and he surprises Julia,
<v Speaker 1>and Julia tries to run, and he gets to the
<v Speaker 1>door before her and reveals himself and says, hey, I
<v Speaker 1>need some help. You promised me back when we're having
<v Speaker 1>to the fair that you would do anything for me,
<v Speaker 1>and he basically says he needs blood in order to
<v Speaker 1>finish this transformation and back to normal Frank. And of
<v Speaker 1>course he isn't shocked, but just that look they have
<v Speaker 1>him at that point, maybe he's sixty percent finished. So
<v Speaker 1>the more blood he gets, the more he's transforming. Close
<v Speaker 1>to his regular self. But every incarnation of Frank, I
<v Speaker 1>loved it because then there's the next one where he's
<v Speaker 1>basically skinless, and then it's just funny because then he
<v Speaker 1>starts wearing clothes, but he's bleeding all over his clothes,
<v Speaker 1>like sometimes clothes are literally soaked in his blood. So
<v Speaker 1>just every incarnation of what they referred to as monster Frank,
<v Speaker 1>he looks awesome.
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't agree with you more. Regarding the transformation, I'm
<v Speaker 2>glad you called the birthing scene the resurrection. I think
<v Speaker 2>I said reincarnation. Resurrection is the correct word to describe
<v Speaker 2>that initial scene when Frank comes back to life. So
<v Speaker 2>if people are wondering what the hell this movie is about,
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of the major through line through the
<v Speaker 2>bulk of the movie. Frank had opened the puzzle box
<v Speaker 2>and went to this hellish other world ruled by these cenobites,
<v Speaker 2>and we think, well, he's trapped there forever. But what
<v Speaker 2>ended up happening was some remainder of his guts were
<v Speaker 2>still under the floorboards. Larry's blood triggered this resurrection. Now
<v Speaker 2>Frank's coming back to life and he needs more blood
<v Speaker 2>to become fully formed. As a human being again, and
<v Speaker 2>he is recruiting his ex lover Julia to help him
<v Speaker 2>with this, and Julia throughout the film then has to
<v Speaker 2>bring him sacrifice these sacrificial men, which then she will
<v Speaker 2>kill for him, or at least knock unconscious, and Frank
<v Speaker 2>will then take their life force, their blood and continue
<v Speaker 2>to grow and become more human. And that's kind of
<v Speaker 2>the through line through this, just to explain for the
<v Speaker 2>listeners in case.
<v Speaker 1>Frank is obsessed with sensual pleasure, that's what it is,
<v Speaker 1>to the point where sex is not enough for him,
<v Speaker 1>and that's why he seeks out this box because opening
<v Speaker 1>the box is supposed to take him to this realm
<v Speaker 1>of extreme pleasure, but that's not really what it is.
<v Speaker 1>It's pleasure and pain, interdimensional pleasure and pain. So he
<v Speaker 1>gets trapped in this dimension and the blood is almost
<v Speaker 1>like a key to get him out.
<v Speaker 2>Correct he does say, yeah, pain and pleasure indivisible is
<v Speaker 2>what he discovered in this other realm. So what the
<v Speaker 2>scene I was going to go over briefly was what
<v Speaker 2>I just called the first kill because what he said
<v Speaker 2>when he first reveals himself to Julia, the blood on
<v Speaker 2>the floor, it brought me back, and she's like, back
<v Speaker 2>from where And he's like, you can't leave me like this.
<v Speaker 2>The blood brought me this far. I need more. You
<v Speaker 2>have to heal me. So she agrees to help him,
<v Speaker 2>and Julia goes to a bar she pretends to be single.
<v Speaker 2>We assume this is during the day when Larry's off
<v Speaker 2>to work. While she's at the bar being her single
<v Speaker 2>version of herself. A gentleman notices she brings him back
<v Speaker 2>to the house. She has some trepidation because she's never
<v Speaker 2>done this before. She's about to sacrifice this guy to
<v Speaker 2>this monster Frank, and so she eventually takes him upstairs
<v Speaker 2>to the attic room. This is confusing to me, Bill,
<v Speaker 2>Is it an attic or is it just a room?
<v Speaker 2>It's one of the rooms on the upstairs level, right,
<v Speaker 2>but it looks like an attic. It's hard to describe.
<v Speaker 1>It's almost like an attic that's separated into three different rooms,
<v Speaker 1>which I've never seen before.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a strange configuration. Regardless, she's she's taken this
<v Speaker 2>poor sap who's really drunk, up to this room and
<v Speaker 2>she's going to have sex with him on the floor.
<v Speaker 2>But he says he's got to use the bathroom first,
<v Speaker 2>and then she goes for a hammer that she has
<v Speaker 2>prepared hanging off on the wall to the side hidden,
<v Speaker 2>and she decides to basically beat him to near death.
<v Speaker 2>And she goes to town on this guy and smacks him,
<v Speaker 2>and there's some great bloody effects. This guy's face is
<v Speaker 2>all messed up. And now this is the first victim.
<v Speaker 2>This will be the first the feeding for Frank. And
<v Speaker 2>there's a great shot. Actually, the shots of Monster Frank
<v Speaker 2>before he's formed his legs, when he's just slithering across
<v Speaker 2>the floor is really creepy. And before Frank's about to
<v Speaker 2>go to town on this victim, you hear him say
<v Speaker 2>to Julia, don't look at me, because it's going to
<v Speaker 2>be awful what he's about to do to this guy.
<v Speaker 2>So she goes to exit the attic room and you
<v Speaker 2>just see this quick shot of the slithering half body
<v Speaker 2>of Frank going to the injured victim to suck his
<v Speaker 2>life force out, and you just hear these gross some
<v Speaker 2>good sound as in this too, these gross like sound
<v Speaker 2>effects of him just eating this guy. So I thought
<v Speaker 2>Claire Higgins as Julia was really good in this scene.
<v Speaker 2>She's freaking out she's had to commit murder here basically
<v Speaker 2>for Frank, and she leaves this attic room. She goes
<v Speaker 2>to clean herself up. She's got blood all over herself.
<v Speaker 2>Larry comes home in the middle of all this, but
<v Speaker 2>afterward she goes back into the attic room and she
<v Speaker 2>has to take the guy's body out and she puts
<v Speaker 2>it in a different room. Frank is standing before her.
<v Speaker 2>Now his legs are formed, and he says, see, it's
<v Speaker 2>making me whole again. Every drop of blood puts more
<v Speaker 2>flesh on my bones. And we both want that, don't
<v Speaker 2>we come here? I want to touch you. Come to
<v Speaker 2>daddy so creepy, but he looks fantastic. Just to say,
<v Speaker 2>I'm just agreeing what Bill is saying. The makeup effects
<v Speaker 2>on skinless Frank look fantastic. He takes her hand. There's
<v Speaker 2>goo dripping everywhere this whole time. You see partial bones
<v Speaker 2>on his head. It just looks so cool because there's
<v Speaker 2>just a dude standing here. It's like, have you ever
<v Speaker 2>been to the body exhibit? It's like that. I mean,
<v Speaker 2>he's just got no skin, but it looks real. I
<v Speaker 2>don't know if there's anything, but it's just that that
<v Speaker 2>first kill sequence is pretty impactful, and I thought Claire
<v Speaker 2>Higgins acting was great.
<v Speaker 1>Now I think I would have to agree with you
<v Speaker 1>also with her acting in that scene, because at first,
<v Speaker 1>here's Frank asking her to kill and she doesn't want
<v Speaker 1>to do it, but at the same time, she's obsessed
<v Speaker 1>with him, and this is what obsessions, calling her to
<v Speaker 1>kill someone. And then in the middle of the kill
<v Speaker 1>you can see she's getting pleasure out of it. So
<v Speaker 1>she's done a one to eighty. Yep. I think how
<v Speaker 1>those themes come about in that scene are great. And
<v Speaker 1>there's that one shot when the guy falls and his
<v Speaker 1>mouth open and you can see that she knocked out
<v Speaker 1>like three of his teeth with the hammer on the
<v Speaker 1>second hit, that's what hits him in the back of
<v Speaker 1>the head and then smacks him across the face. It's
<v Speaker 1>some gory shit, man, it's really violent. It's super violent,
<v Speaker 1>and it's just scary of the fact that she can
<v Speaker 1>bring herself to do that almost so easily, because then
<v Speaker 1>she keeps doving it over and over again. So yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I do like her in that scene.
<v Speaker 2>You're absolutely right, she's playing a lot of levels here
<v Speaker 2>because she's going back and forth as to there's obviously
<v Speaker 2>dealing with some morality of the situation. But when then
<v Speaker 2>after she murders that guy, you can see she's taking
<v Speaker 2>some pleasure in it. Then when she goes into the
<v Speaker 2>bathroom and she's wiping blood off of her face, she
<v Speaker 2>is in shock, and it's great. But then when she
<v Speaker 2>goes back to see Frank, and Frank is getting better
<v Speaker 2>and more fully formed, and he's standing on two legs now,
<v Speaker 2>and they have this conversation and Frank is just a
<v Speaker 2>dirty bastard and he's saying these things like come to daddy.
<v Speaker 2>He's touching her with his sinewy, goopy like hands and
<v Speaker 2>she takes his hand and this is a callback to
<v Speaker 2>one of the flashbacks early in the film, and puts
<v Speaker 2>his finger on her lips. She caresses her lips with
<v Speaker 2>his gross, skinless finger, and basically that sums up this movie.
<v Speaker 2>That's like, what are we doing here? What is this?
<v Speaker 2>Because there's these sexual overtones and it's real horror, it's
<v Speaker 2>body horror, it's all of it combined, and she's playing
<v Speaker 2>the levels and anyway, that's what I'm talking about. That's
<v Speaker 2>why the scene is I think.
<v Speaker 1>Very effective, agreed, And last, what do we conclude with
<v Speaker 1>that we both like.
<v Speaker 2>What are we talking about here? I believe Bill and
<v Speaker 2>I share our last favorite scene, which would be Kirsty
<v Speaker 2>makes a deal with the cenobites at the hospital.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So Kirsty is following Julia and sees that Julia
<v Speaker 1>is bringing the man to the house and she goes
<v Speaker 1>upstairs to see what's going on and finds this man
<v Speaker 1>partially dead because Julia's tried to kill him. Frank's been
<v Speaker 1>sucking the essence out and then what monster. Frank reveals
<v Speaker 1>himself to Kirsty as her uncle, and then he almost
<v Speaker 1>tries to you know, I'm just gonna say rape. He
<v Speaker 1>just tries to rape her, and she tries to escape.
<v Speaker 1>She finds the puzzle box. She sees Frank's very upset
<v Speaker 1>that she picked it up, and she throws it out
<v Speaker 1>the window and then runs out of the house and
<v Speaker 1>picks it up and passes out. Wakes up in the hospital,
<v Speaker 1>no idea what's going on. The nurse or the doctor
<v Speaker 1>comes in and leaves her.
<v Speaker 2>The box, which is a wild thing.
<v Speaker 1>It's such a weird So she's in the room but
<v Speaker 1>nothing else to do, so she starts playing with the
<v Speaker 1>puzzle box. And whoops. She accidentally figures it out and
<v Speaker 1>opens it, and strange things start happening. Wall opens into
<v Speaker 1>her room and she goes through this hallway and that's
<v Speaker 1>when we see the engineer, and the engineer chases her
<v Speaker 1>out of the hallway and she runs back into the
<v Speaker 1>hospital room and she turns around and the wall is closed,
<v Speaker 1>but she can hear that creature on the other side
<v Speaker 1>of the wall. And then one of my favorite shots
<v Speaker 1>is we see one of the walls of the hospital
<v Speaker 1>room and it turns black with this yellow glow behind it,
<v Speaker 1>and then we got the fog rolling in and then
<v Speaker 1>all this crazy symbolism with the TV going on and
<v Speaker 1>off with a blooming flower and Ivy is reverse flowing
<v Speaker 1>with blood and all of a sudden, I think, is
<v Speaker 1>it the chatter Cinnabyte Yes basically backs her into her
<v Speaker 1>corner and sticks its fingers in our mouth, and then
<v Speaker 1>we meet the rest of the Cinnabytes and they basically
<v Speaker 1>told her, well, you open the box, you're coming with us,
<v Speaker 1>and she's like, uh no, I had no intention to
<v Speaker 1>open this box, and they're like, well, you open it,
<v Speaker 1>you got to come with us, and that's when she
<v Speaker 1>puts one on one together and realizes Frank had opened
<v Speaker 1>this box and she says, I can take it to
<v Speaker 1>Frank because Frank's escaped her world, and they don't believe
<v Speaker 1>her at first, but they decide to make a deal.
<v Speaker 1>If you can prove to us that Frank has escaped,
<v Speaker 1>we will take him instead of you maybe, and at
<v Speaker 1>that point they let her go. But yeah, this is
<v Speaker 1>the first time we really get to see all the
<v Speaker 1>cinnabytes and they get the talk. Just the scene when
<v Speaker 1>she's in the hospital and all these weird things start happening.
<v Speaker 1>I just thought that was really cool. But you can
<v Speaker 1>do a little budget sometimes impresses me, and that's definitely
<v Speaker 1>one of these moments.
<v Speaker 2>For sure, it's really cool. I'm a little hot and
<v Speaker 2>cold on the engineer that we'd monster chasing her down
<v Speaker 2>the hallway in the sequence. It's still kind of cool,
<v Speaker 2>like it looks cool, but you're watching it by today's
<v Speaker 2>standards too, So as an adult, I'm watching and go, Okay,
<v Speaker 2>that's a little cheesy, but cool design of the creature. Regardless,
<v Speaker 2>it's for me. When after that first sequence and she's
<v Speaker 2>back in the hospital room and the walls then turn
<v Speaker 2>to black and you have the glow emitting from behind
<v Speaker 2>is really cool. It's when the cenobytes appear and that
<v Speaker 2>chatterer is really cool. But like, you nailed it, you
<v Speaker 2>said it. This is really the meaty scene for the cenobytes,
<v Speaker 2>when we get to see them in all their glory.
<v Speaker 2>We see them clearer and we get dialogue between them
<v Speaker 2>and Kirsty and we understand a little bit more what
<v Speaker 2>they're about because the lead cenobyte says, the box you
<v Speaker 2>opened it, we came, and she says, who are you?
<v Speaker 2>And he responds explorers in the further regions of experience,
<v Speaker 2>demons to some angels, to others, and she's like, go
<v Speaker 2>to hell, and the female cenobite says, we can't not alone,
<v Speaker 2>and then lead cenebite replies, you solved the box. We came.
<v Speaker 2>Now you must come with us taste our pleasures. And
<v Speaker 2>it's just like these lines and the way that Doug
<v Speaker 2>Bradley delivers them, And of course at the end, Kirsty says, hey,
<v Speaker 2>Frank Cotton escaped you guys, and they're like, well, so,
<v Speaker 2>what what does it have to do with you? And
<v Speaker 2>she says, I can lead you to him and you
<v Speaker 2>can take him back instead of me. So she's making
<v Speaker 2>that deal and that's when that big quote comes in
<v Speaker 2>from the top, when we'll tear your soul apart right there.
<v Speaker 2>So it's amazing if you don't. It's like I'm trying
<v Speaker 2>to describe some of these cenebytes for the audience a
<v Speaker 2>little bit like there severely goth. They're wrapped tightly with
<v Speaker 2>these black leather costumes. The lead cenobite has what looks
<v Speaker 2>like a priest's skirt. They're all bald with very pale makeup.
<v Speaker 2>Lead cenobite of course has the pins or are they
<v Speaker 2>thin nails sticking out of his face all over the place,
<v Speaker 2>with like a grid of nails on his face and
<v Speaker 2>his head, black eye contacts. They have bloody open gashes,
<v Speaker 2>wounds on their chests, their bodies. The chatterer's lips are
<v Speaker 2>pulled way back almost over his head to expose his
<v Speaker 2>jaws that are clattering and chattering the whole time. It's
<v Speaker 2>pretty awesome, and it's like who thought this up?
<v Speaker 1>Seriously, It's like Tim Burton designs when r X ray
<v Speaker 1>it actually, hmm, good call. There's some freaky stuff. Okay.
<v Speaker 1>Trying to move on to Swiss cheese and complaint department,
<v Speaker 1>And why don't we call Swiss cheese.
<v Speaker 2>Because although this movie is delicious, it does have hook
<v Speaker 2>piercing skin holes.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, it doesn't have those hook piercing skin hooles. We
<v Speaker 1>just file with the complaints apartment. So, Jason, would you
<v Speaker 1>have four cheese or complaints?
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm kind of I think cutting to that first
<v Speaker 2>kill sequence actually, because I just have some logistical questions.
<v Speaker 2>I guess here, when Julia is killing these men, she
<v Speaker 2>where she's bringing these sacrificial men to Frank so he
<v Speaker 2>can suck their blood or eat their flat, whatever it
<v Speaker 2>is he needs to do to reform. Where's she putting
<v Speaker 2>these dead bodies? We see her pick up one and
<v Speaker 2>like stash the body in one of the side rooms
<v Speaker 2>of the attic, and I'm like, she's just gonna put
<v Speaker 2>the body in there. They just moved into this house
<v Speaker 2>and they're still unpacking and going through things. I wouldn't
<v Speaker 2>think that's a great place to stash a dead body
<v Speaker 2>that's been mutilated.
<v Speaker 1>I'm with you one hundred percent. That's what I had too. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>when they eventually start smelling, when you wonder why you
<v Speaker 1>had like eight thousand flies in your house.
<v Speaker 2>M I didn't get that either. Yeah, it's weird because
<v Speaker 2>we then have to assume she eventually, I mean, there's
<v Speaker 2>events three bodies in that room. But so yeah, I
<v Speaker 2>had that, and that also when Kirsty you were talking
<v Speaker 2>about this, when Kirsty comes home in the middle of
<v Speaker 2>Julia taking one of the guys, luring one of the
<v Speaker 2>guys up to the room to have Frank kill eat
<v Speaker 2>this guy whatever it is. Eventually Kirsty goes up to
<v Speaker 2>the room, Frank reveals himself to her, tries to rape her.
<v Speaker 2>She gets the box throws out all of that the
<v Speaker 2>first time Kirsty sees Frank, because what happens in the
<v Speaker 2>sequence is Kirsty goes upstairs to the attic area and
<v Speaker 2>Julia has gone and hidden in another room. I don't
<v Speaker 2>know why Julia is hiding at this point, but the
<v Speaker 2>not the that we think the one guy that she
<v Speaker 2>Julia just lured into the room for Frank, he's not
<v Speaker 2>totally dead. He kind of leans out of the attic
<v Speaker 2>room all gray faced and bloody, and he's reaching towards Kirsty,
<v Speaker 2>who's freaking out like what the hell's happening, saying help
<v Speaker 2>me help me, and eventually Frank has to expose himself
<v Speaker 2>to Kirsty. He comes out and grabs the dead guy
<v Speaker 2>and kills him off. And if you are Kirsty and
<v Speaker 2>you see the skinless person in front of you, because
<v Speaker 2>it's Frank, He's just colored in blood without any skin,
<v Speaker 2>I would freak the f out. She just simply goes no, no,
<v Speaker 2>And then Frank starts talking to her and says, I'm Frank,
<v Speaker 2>and oh, you've grown up, Kirsty, You're beautiful. But her
<v Speaker 2>reaction was confounding to me. To seeing Frank for the
<v Speaker 2>first time, you would lose your mind and run the
<v Speaker 2>hell out of the house, right, Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I would never hear him saying that he was uncle Frank,
<v Speaker 1>or might have caught that while I was running out
<v Speaker 1>the front door going to the police.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it's a weird reaction she has to seeing
<v Speaker 2>him for the first time, because it's as if she
<v Speaker 2>recognizes him as Frank, because she just looks at him
<v Speaker 2>and goes no, no. And I was like, what are
<v Speaker 2>you talking? You don't even know who that is.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, got to move the story, I guess.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, so I have another I got some other
<v Speaker 2>things to say. Go ahead, man, what do you got here?
<v Speaker 1>All right? This house is disgusting. And we have where
<v Speaker 1>Larry and Julie are downstairs and they're watching boxing match
<v Speaker 1>and Larry hears something. He's like, oh, let me go
<v Speaker 1>upstairs and investigate, and of course Julia is all worried
<v Speaker 1>about it. Goes up to the attic, wow, and he
<v Speaker 1>sees rats, rats in his attic, and he doesn't seem
<v Speaker 1>at all worried about that. I'm like, rats, they can
<v Speaker 1>spread disease. I'd be sending up an exterminator and then
<v Speaker 1>we'd have the exterminator scene where he gets killed by Frank.
<v Speaker 1>But how you not at all phased that you have
<v Speaker 1>rats in your house?
<v Speaker 2>It's gross.
<v Speaker 1>Let alone just the house itself is in disrepair and
<v Speaker 1>they don't seem to be doing anything about it. Everything
<v Speaker 1>in this movie is disgusting. Even there's that makeout scene
<v Speaker 1>with Kirstine and our boyfriend in the front of this
<v Speaker 1>wall that looks like it's like fece smeared on it,
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, oh, I would not be kissing there.
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure police.
<v Speaker 2>Kiss Yeah, all valid complaints and uh, it's very curious,
<v Speaker 2>but I agree. You see rats in the house that's
<v Speaker 2>a real problem. There has to be some reaction there. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>you just don't say, oh, you know, that's normal just
<v Speaker 2>to have rats in Yeah, probably not good. But you're
<v Speaker 2>right this whole like you when you point out these details,
<v Speaker 2>the whole movie is really gross. It's very unsettling.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, maggots, cockroaches, disgusting.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's almost like you can smell it through the
<v Speaker 2>TV screen. Yes, you know, this ties into the scene
<v Speaker 2>I was just complaining about where I was like, why
<v Speaker 2>isn't Kirsty reacting in a different way to seeing Frank
<v Speaker 2>for the first time as this skinless person, because that's horrific.
<v Speaker 2>But after that sequence, because they then Bill described they
<v Speaker 2>go into the room and they tussle a little bit
<v Speaker 2>over the box, and basically Frank all that Frank says
<v Speaker 2>is give me the box, and she says you want it,
<v Speaker 2>well you can have it, and throws it out the
<v Speaker 2>window and that's it. Then she goes out, she run
<v Speaker 2>finally runs out, grabs the box, and then she ends
<v Speaker 2>up in the hospital. So later on, when she unlocks
<v Speaker 2>the box, the puzzle box in the hospital room and
<v Speaker 2>the center, the cenobytes are summoned. She makes this deal
<v Speaker 2>with him. But I'm like, how would you even have
<v Speaker 2>any knowledge of the fact that Frank had escaped them?
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't know any of that, right, she doesn't have
<v Speaker 2>any knowledge. So we quickly put that together. So all
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, now she's making a deal with the cenobytes, going,
<v Speaker 2>do you know Frank Cotton? Frank Cotton got away from you.
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't know who the Cenobytes are, who, what this
<v Speaker 2>world is? That Frank Cotton had been there and was
<v Speaker 2>destroyed by them initially and then was resurrected. She doesn't
<v Speaker 2>have any of that knowledge. But now she's making a
<v Speaker 2>deal saying, Frank Cotton escaped you. I'll give you Frank
<v Speaker 2>and you let me go. How would you even know
<v Speaker 2>any of that? There's a hole there.
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah. It was kind of funny, like does Senatebites
<v Speaker 1>even know he's Frank Cotton? Yeah, let me check my rolodex,
<v Speaker 1>right right, right, that's that could be a problem.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, uh for me.
<v Speaker 1>When Ashley does come back to the house after her
<v Speaker 1>stay at the hospital, cannot figure out there's something off
<v Speaker 1>with her father, That's what I had. Next, That's exactly
<v Speaker 1>what I had, Because we find out that Larry is
<v Speaker 1>a little queasy when it comes to blood, and you
<v Speaker 1>could tell he's got blood in his collar, you could
<v Speaker 1>tell that he's got blood on his forehead and he's
<v Speaker 1>acting normal. No way in hell, how do you not
<v Speaker 1>see that? It's so obvious. I get you're in a
<v Speaker 1>frantic state, but you would still know something is off
<v Speaker 1>with your dad if he looked like that, like why,
<v Speaker 1>you know, why? Why is their blood? And then if
<v Speaker 1>you looked down on it and didn't seem at all
<v Speaker 1>phased by it, then you're like, oh, wait, you're not
<v Speaker 1>my dad. I gotta get the hell out of here.
<v Speaker 2>Thousand percent. So here at this point in the story,
<v Speaker 2>Kirsty has now come back to the house with the
<v Speaker 2>puzzle box, which is another complaint I have because it
<v Speaker 2>actually disappears it's in her possession, and then it disappears
<v Speaker 2>halfway through this whole sequence. This whole ending has a
<v Speaker 2>lot of problems, but the one being obviously she would
<v Speaker 2>know something's up with her dad since he's got blood
<v Speaker 2>all surrounding the outside of his face, because we know
<v Speaker 2>as an audience that that's not her dad, that's actually Frank.
<v Speaker 2>Frank had killed a father, which they skip, we don't
<v Speaker 2>get to see that. I understand kind of why they
<v Speaker 2>did that because we're supposed to think that Larry is Larry,
<v Speaker 2>but then find the reveal is Larry actually is Frank.
<v Speaker 2>Frank just took Larry's skin. Frank is actually wearing Larry's skin.
<v Speaker 2>So Kirsty thinks Larry's Larry that she's talking, but no,
<v Speaker 2>it's obvious he's got blood everywhere. So I agree with
<v Speaker 2>you on that. Do you want to get into this
<v Speaker 2>ending sequence? Did you have any other complaints because I
<v Speaker 2>had just commented ending. Yeah. So now Kirsty, she had
<v Speaker 2>the box and then the Box of the Spirit, well
<v Speaker 2>it ended up in the death grip of Julie at
<v Speaker 2>one point. To get the puzzle box back, and now
<v Speaker 2>what she's going to do is vanquish each cenobyte throughout
<v Speaker 2>because the cenobytes, although they made this deal with Kirsty
<v Speaker 2>that if they got Frank Cotton back, she would be
<v Speaker 2>allowed to live, well, they go back on their deal
<v Speaker 2>and they're coming after her for some reason. So she
<v Speaker 2>gets ahold of the puzzle box once again starts reconfiguring
<v Speaker 2>it to basically send each cenebyte one at a time
<v Speaker 2>back to this hellish realm, and so we watch this
<v Speaker 2>happen as the whole house is falling apart around Kersey.
<v Speaker 2>So she's going through the house as the cenobytes are
<v Speaker 2>chasing her, and you get to see her like tweak
<v Speaker 2>the box and all of a sudden, lead cenebite disappears
<v Speaker 2>and tweak it now female cenobite disappears, and at one
<v Speaker 2>point she goes up against Butterball, but instead of making
<v Speaker 2>him disappear, the house falls down on him. The structure,
<v Speaker 2>the falling debris falls on top of him, and I'm like,
<v Speaker 2>that's it. She never actually vanquishes him and sends him
<v Speaker 2>back to the hellish realm. So I was like, does
<v Speaker 2>that correct Bill? Did I see that correctly? Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that would really affect him. But I
<v Speaker 1>think if they had more of a budget, we would
<v Speaker 1>have saw that happen. I think they're like, all right,
<v Speaker 1>he's indisposed, and probably when all the other ones disappeared,
<v Speaker 1>he disappeared too.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yeah, the ending is just a little rough because
<v Speaker 2>then they find it's basically Kirsty and her boyfriend Steve too.
<v Speaker 2>We haven't talked about at all here that's.
<v Speaker 1>A known reason too. Yeah, if he wasn't in the movie,
<v Speaker 1>what it made a difference? Not it does nothing, But
<v Speaker 1>they escaped the house. As it's a very like Poltergeist
<v Speaker 1>ending where we are to assume I guess the house
<v Speaker 1>just burns to the ground. Then there's another character, this vagrant,
<v Speaker 1>this homeless guy that appears throughout the movie that doesn't
<v Speaker 1>make any sense either, appears at the end. Basically, Kirsty's
<v Speaker 1>gonna let go of this Box's done with the puzzle box.
<v Speaker 1>But this vagrant we saw earlier in the film shows
<v Speaker 1>up at the end after the house is burnt to
<v Speaker 1>the ground and is going to now take the puzzle
<v Speaker 1>box for himself, when all of a sudden, he transforms
<v Speaker 1>into this winged, skeletal creature and flies away with the
<v Speaker 1>puzzle box. And I'm like, what the hell just happened?
<v Speaker 1>But then I have to admit, there's like a good bookend.
<v Speaker 1>We're back in Morocco with this merchant selling the box
<v Speaker 1>once again, but to someone new. So I like that bookend,
<v Speaker 1>But everything that led up to that and this ending
<v Speaker 1>of this film was nonsense. Yeah. I love how Steve
<v Speaker 1>wasn't fazed by the wiggle demon either just kind of like, oh,
<v Speaker 1>there it goes just flying off.
<v Speaker 2>That's a running thing. You nailed it, Bill, That's a
<v Speaker 2>running through throughout the film. There's just some wild reactions
<v Speaker 2>from characters like going, what, Yeah, how are you not
<v Speaker 2>reacting to this? Or that just doesn't make any logical
<v Speaker 2>sense you wouldn't react, or you overreact. I don't know.
<v Speaker 2>It's very confusing. So those are some complaints.
<v Speaker 1>I forgot how the movie and it because I'm thinking
<v Speaker 1>to myself, you got to destroy the box, and then
<v Speaker 1>when they're at the beach and they're burning it, I'm like, oh, okay,
<v Speaker 1>she's trying to destroy it, so what the hell happens?
<v Speaker 1>And then I forgot about the vagrant turning into a
<v Speaker 1>winged demon flying off and like totally, oh all right,
<v Speaker 1>that was kind of neat, but that was also really
<v Speaker 1>fucking weird.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just out of the blue. So is that where
<v Speaker 2>they were at the beach with the box then with
<v Speaker 2>those that's what I'm guessing. Okay, so the house didn't
<v Speaker 2>well I mean the house.
<v Speaker 1>Was destroyed though, right, I think so, yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Because it was falling apart the whole time, So it's
<v Speaker 2>just yeah, okay, all right, weird ending, but they didn't
<v Speaker 2>have a lot of money to work with, so it
<v Speaker 2>just kind of literally winged it.
<v Speaker 1>Try to be forgiving.
<v Speaker 2>What that's you're right? Right?
<v Speaker 1>All right? I tried to go on to hey, it's
<v Speaker 1>that actor.
<v Speaker 2>Oh right.
<v Speaker 1>So this segment we spotlight a character actor you have
<v Speaker 1>seen in many other films, an actor making their big
<v Speaker 1>screen debut, or an actor that makes an uncredited cameo.
<v Speaker 1>Is that actor? Who do we choose this week? Jason?
<v Speaker 1>Because I think there's like ten people in this movie.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this was a little bit of a tough one.
<v Speaker 2>So we'd like to choose an actor that we deem familiar,
<v Speaker 2>but we just can't quite play them, or we don't
<v Speaker 2>they're not a household name. So I decided to go
<v Speaker 2>with one of our lead actors, Andrew Robinson, who portrays
<v Speaker 2>Larry Cotton, Kirsty's father, Frank Cotton's brother, Julia's husband, Andrew Robinson.
<v Speaker 2>He is an American actor from New York City. Throughout
<v Speaker 2>the sixties and seventies, Robinson performed a wide variety of theater,
<v Speaker 2>movie and television roles. These included the infamous scorpio killer
<v Speaker 2>in Dirty Harry Way, back in seventy one. And then
<v Speaker 2>this is funny on IMDb it says he did a
<v Speaker 2>stint on Ryan's Hope, the soap opera show from nineteen
<v Speaker 2>seventy five, but he actually did one hundred and sixty
<v Speaker 2>nine episodes. I think that's a little more than a stint,
<v Speaker 2>but that actually earned him an Emmy nomination. So there
<v Speaker 2>you go. Moving on to his eighties snapshot if you will,
<v Speaker 2>he does a bunch of TV episodes, everything from The
<v Speaker 2>Dukes of Hazard to The eighteen to Cagney and Lacy
<v Speaker 2>to Moonlighting. Between all of that, he was in the
<v Speaker 2>film Mask from eighty five. He plays a detective named
<v Speaker 2>Detective Monty from Cobra in eighty six. He's in This
<v Speaker 2>hell Raiser in eighty seven. He's also in Shoot to
<v Speaker 2>Kill in nineteen eighty eight, which we covered on this
<v Speaker 2>very podcast, and I was like, ah, of course, that's
<v Speaker 2>definitely something I recognize him from, because isn't he one
<v Speaker 2>of the group of like hikers that goes with that
<v Speaker 2>Clancy Brown joins up with and yeah. He also then
<v Speaker 2>goes on to play Liberachi in the TV movie Liberachi
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty eight. After that, he was in Child's Play, three,
<v Speaker 2>does a bunch more TV, and then he lands the
<v Speaker 2>role of Elim Garak for thirty seven episodes of Star
<v Speaker 2>Trek Deep Space nine, a show that you've become familiar
<v Speaker 2>with just recently, Bill Bant.
<v Speaker 1>I'm going back and watching that show. I missed it
<v Speaker 1>the first time out, and he's been on it once
<v Speaker 1>so far. Okay, so I still got what twenty twenty
<v Speaker 1>nine more times to see him? Thirty six apparently, I guess.
<v Speaker 2>Ok, I still have to see him thirty five.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so he's gonna pop up thirty five more times
<v Speaker 1>a million season one right now.
<v Speaker 2>But I do recall him from the show. I was
<v Speaker 2>a fan of Deep Space nine. He's great, and he
<v Speaker 2>yes portrays Elan Garic, an exiled spy from the Cardassian
<v Speaker 2>Union that was from nineteen ninety three to nineteen ninety nine.
<v Speaker 2>He goes on to do more TV, primarily, and in
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four loaned his voice to play Garak once
<v Speaker 2>again in an episode of the animated series Star Trek.
<v Speaker 2>Lower decks a little trivia. We know that you know?
<v Speaker 2>He portrayed the Scorpio killer in Dirty Harry, which led
<v Speaker 2>to him receiving serious death threats via telephone after the
<v Speaker 2>film's release, which is crazy. He wrote a novel about
<v Speaker 2>the star Trek Deep Space nine character he played, which
<v Speaker 2>is entitled A Stitch in Time. You know, he almost
<v Speaker 2>got the part of Odo on Deep Space nine after
<v Speaker 2>reading for the part, but was chosen for the recurring
<v Speaker 2>role of Garic instead. Pretty cool, Andrew Robinson or hey
<v Speaker 2>it's that actor this week?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would say I probably know most from Jerdi Harry.
<v Speaker 2>For sure, as soon as I saw those photos. Oh well, yep, yep,
<v Speaker 2>of course. Yeah, he's the he's the main battie.
<v Speaker 1>Time to move on to facts and trivia. What are
<v Speaker 1>some facts in trivia we have about hell.
<v Speaker 2>Raiser, the Chatterer, and Butterball. Cenobites had dialogue in the
<v Speaker 2>original script, However, when their makeup made coherent speech impossible,
<v Speaker 2>their lines were given to the female cenobyte and especially
<v Speaker 2>the lead cenebite, Pinhead, which helped to cement his reputation
<v Speaker 2>as the film's trademark character.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I think in the book Pinhead is not
<v Speaker 1>the lead character. He's also known as Priests. He's not
<v Speaker 1>known as Pitthead. That was something the crew came up with,
<v Speaker 1>so I didn't know this. So there was a sequel
<v Speaker 1>to the book, and it was called The Scarlet Gospels,
<v Speaker 1>and in that book, Clivee Barker kills off the Pinhead character,
<v Speaker 1>which obviously does not happen in the movies because he's
<v Speaker 1>in I think there's eleven movies, so he's in all those.
<v Speaker 1>So surprised about that. I think Clyte Barker didn't like
<v Speaker 1>the fact that Pinhead was called Pinhead and decided, you
<v Speaker 1>know what, off of my books.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, this film takes a lot of liberties with
<v Speaker 2>the actual novel.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Clivee Barker insisted that quote unquote, Pinhead's personality be more
<v Speaker 2>evocative of Christopher Lee's portrayal of Count Dracula. Quote. Part
<v Speaker 2>of the chill of Dracula surely lies in the fact
<v Speaker 2>that he's very clearly and articulately aware of what he
<v Speaker 2>is doing. You feel that this is a penetrating intelligence.
<v Speaker 2>And I don't find dumb things terribly scary. I find
<v Speaker 2>intelligence scary, particularly twisted intelligence. It's one of the reasons
<v Speaker 2>why Hannibal Lecter is scary, isn't it. It's because you
<v Speaker 2>always feel that he's going to be three jumps ahead
<v Speaker 2>of you.
<v Speaker 1>So, as we mentioned a bunch of times, the production
<v Speaker 1>basically had no budget and director Clive Barker had to
<v Speaker 1>find creative methods of dealing with issues. Shooting in a
<v Speaker 1>house with only a single camera to spare, Barker was
<v Speaker 1>forced to rely on overhead and zoom shots due to
<v Speaker 1>shooting and straints in limited areas to move in. So
<v Speaker 1>the house was an actual house that they were shooting inside.
<v Speaker 1>The only time I think they were on stage was
<v Speaker 1>for the attic room. So several of the effects, including
<v Speaker 1>Larry's blood being sucked into the floor in Frank's rebirth,
<v Speaker 1>were either reshot due to looking unconvincing, or required additional
<v Speaker 1>funding from New World Pictures to complete because of cost overruns.
<v Speaker 1>Barker himself has said that the dodgy nature of the
<v Speaker 1>FX can be traced to him completing the majority of
<v Speaker 1>the work over a single weekend while getting drunk with
<v Speaker 1>a Greek animator after filming rafts. So at the end,
<v Speaker 1>when all the citabites are disappearing with that yellow, that's
<v Speaker 1>Clive Barker and I guess animator were literally drawing on
<v Speaker 1>the cells to make that happen.
<v Speaker 2>That's great, and that just led into my I have
<v Speaker 2>the same trivia here, and it was just Barker had
<v Speaker 2>commented that he thinks the FX turned out pretty well
<v Speaker 2>considering the amount of alcohol the too consumed that weekend
<v Speaker 2>while working. YEP, I love this little bit. When Clive
<v Speaker 2>Barker first showed the film to his mother, she cried
<v Speaker 2>tears of joy upon seeing her son's name in the
<v Speaker 2>opening credits. He leaned over and whispered that that would
<v Speaker 2>be the happiest she would be for the next two hours.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it'd be interesting to hear what her take was.
<v Speaker 1>Actor was all said and done. I mean, no matter what,
<v Speaker 1>she's proud that her son made the movie. But what
<v Speaker 1>the hell is this?
<v Speaker 2>So? The concept of a cube being used as a
<v Speaker 2>portal to hell has its basis in the urban legend
<v Speaker 2>of the Devil's Toy Box, which concerns a six sided
<v Speaker 2>cube constructed of inward facing mirrors. According to legend, individuals
<v Speaker 2>who enter the structure and then close it will undergo surreal,
<v Speaker 2>disturbing phenomenon that will simultaneously grant them a revelatory experience
<v Speaker 2>and permanently warp their mind. This is crazy built the
<v Speaker 2>Devil's Toy Box most commonly refers to an urban legend
<v Speaker 2>about a room with mirrored walls, floors, and ceiling that
<v Speaker 2>is said to drive people to madness and is sometimes
<v Speaker 2>linked to the Hell Raiser movies. It is also the
<v Speaker 2>title of a twenty seventeen horror movie in a nonfiction
<v Speaker 2>book about Prometheus technology threats, and has appeared in other media.
<v Speaker 2>But the urban legend originated in northern Louisiana, where a
<v Speaker 2>real life Halloween attraction with this name, The Devil's Toy Box,
<v Speaker 2>was reportedly shut down after only a week due to
<v Speaker 2>the severe reactions of people who entered. Here's the incident.
<v Speaker 2>The attraction was shut down by the city council after
<v Speaker 2>just one week because visitors experienced extreme reactions, including one
<v Speaker 2>man who lasted four minutes and thirty seven seconds before
<v Speaker 2>becoming mute and wide eyed, and another woman who had
<v Speaker 2>a heart attack. Jesus, I just had to conclude that
<v Speaker 2>it's a little bit of a tangent, but that's wild man,
<v Speaker 2>because just this is all in free where this idea
<v Speaker 2>of like a box that unleash's hell comes from and
<v Speaker 2>has now been associated with Hell Raiser. The Devil's Toy Box.
<v Speaker 1>And if we mentioned that the puzzle box itself is
<v Speaker 1>known as the Lament configuration. I never knew that going
<v Speaker 1>into this. I just always thought it was a puzzle box.
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know if they mentioned that in any
<v Speaker 1>of the other movies.
<v Speaker 2>That's how I came about the Devil's Toy Box. Information
<v Speaker 2>was looking up the box and you go to the
<v Speaker 2>hell Raiser fandom wiki and it starts giving you all
<v Speaker 2>this background lore and stuff, and I'm like, whoa, this
<v Speaker 2>is some crazy stuff.
<v Speaker 1>This I found funny. So Pinhead, who was played by
<v Speaker 1>Doug Bradley, he was actually given a choice when filming
<v Speaker 1>to either play the Cinnabyte or a mover, and Bradley
<v Speaker 1>considered doing the mover part because he wouldn't have makeup
<v Speaker 1>and people would actually see him. I think he made
<v Speaker 1>the right choice. YEP.
<v Speaker 2>I had mentioned it was off putting in the beginning
<v Speaker 2>of this film when we see the actor portraying Frank
<v Speaker 2>Cotton because his dialogue was dubbed. It was entirely dubbed
<v Speaker 2>by actor Bob Sessions, and Sessions would later appear in
<v Speaker 2>Barker's Night Breed in a supporting role. But one last
<v Speaker 2>little bit too, which I thought was interesting character actor
<v Speaker 2>one of our favorites, Bill Bank. Lance Hendrickson was offered
<v Speaker 2>the role of Frank Cotton by New World Pictures, but
<v Speaker 2>he turned it down, fearing that if successful, he would
<v Speaker 2>have to appear in a series of sequels, which he
<v Speaker 2>wasn't keen on. But Lance Henrickson would later go on
<v Speaker 2>to appear in one of the Hell Raiser sequels, Hell
<v Speaker 2>Raiser Hell World in two thousand and five.
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen that one.
<v Speaker 2>No, I missed that one.
<v Speaker 1>All right, Jason, we got some additional titles, Yes, diginal
<v Speaker 1>titles for Hell Raiser. All right, here we go. Croatia
<v Speaker 1>Lords of Hell, France and Uruguay the Pact in India
<v Speaker 1>Son of the Devil, Mexico Door to Hell, Portugal is
<v Speaker 1>Cursed Fire, Serbia was Lord of Hell. Taiwan is raised
<v Speaker 1>Ghosts and eat People. Argentina was Hell Raiser, the Pact.
<v Speaker 1>Brazil was Hell Raiser, Reborn from Hell. Germany was Hell Raiser,
<v Speaker 1>The Gate to Hell, Italy Hell Raiser. There are no
<v Speaker 1>limits Netherlands. Hell Raiser won the original. Okay, I guess
<v Speaker 1>they knew there was going to be a sequel, right
<v Speaker 1>Poland Hell Raiser Hell's Messenger and Spain Hell Raiser, those
<v Speaker 1>who bring hell.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's a lot.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I appreciate.
<v Speaker 2>I always appreciate these, But yeah I have I think
<v Speaker 2>I still gotta go with what is it raise ghosts
<v Speaker 2>and Eat People.
<v Speaker 1>Eat People from Taiwan?
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I just like the ones that are so random
<v Speaker 2>and have nothing to like. What was the there was
<v Speaker 2>something like create fire something? What was the cursed fire?
<v Speaker 2>Cursed fire?
<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay fire.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, I'm going to add on a little bit
<v Speaker 2>because you're talking about alternate titles. The film was originally
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be called The hell Bound Heart, after the
<v Speaker 2>novels upon which it was based, but the studio decided
<v Speaker 2>the title sounded too much like a romance and asked
<v Speaker 2>Clive Barker to change it. Barker offered the title Sato
<v Speaker 2>Masochists from Beyond the Grave, which was rejected for the
<v Speaker 2>overtly as sexual content. He ultimately opened the floor to
<v Speaker 2>the production team to offer up their own suggestions, prompting
<v Speaker 2>a sixty year old female crew member to offer up
<v Speaker 2>the title what a Woman Will Do for a good fuck.
<v Speaker 1>She's not lying, right, I mean that.
<v Speaker 2>Would be a more appropriate title for this film than
<v Speaker 2>Cursed Fire.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I would agree with that also, Okay,
<v Speaker 1>move it on to box office. So Hell Razor was
<v Speaker 1>released on September eighteenth, nineteen eighty seven, and one ninety
<v Speaker 1>seven theaters, with an estimated buzzet of just one million dollars.
<v Speaker 1>Hell Raiser pulled in fourteen point six million dollars domestically
<v Speaker 1>and added another thirty million dollars internationally. The film debuted
<v Speaker 1>number four in its opening weekend, behind the debuts of
<v Speaker 1>Fatal Attraction, The Principal, and The Pickup Artist, but the
<v Speaker 1>next week it would move up to number three and
<v Speaker 1>would stay in the top ten for just another week,
<v Speaker 1>and by the end of its run, Hellraiser ranked as
<v Speaker 1>the sixty seventh highest grossing film of the year in
<v Speaker 1>the US, just ahead of Superman four The Quest for Peace.
<v Speaker 1>So moving on to reviews. When growing up in the eighties,
<v Speaker 1>we would watch at the Movies with Gene Cisco and
<v Speaker 1>Roger Ebert to hear their reviews and watch clips of
<v Speaker 1>upcoming movies. Unfortunately, the movie was not reviewed on the show,
<v Speaker 1>but I did find Roger Ebert review and was not kind.
<v Speaker 1>He gave it half a star, stating there are no
<v Speaker 1>surprises in Hell Raiser, only a dreary series of scenes
<v Speaker 1>that repeat each other. What fun is it watching the
<v Speaker 1>movie mark time until the characters discover the obvious? This
<v Speaker 1>is a movie without wit, style or reason. Leonard Moulton
<v Speaker 1>was a little bit kinder, giving it two and a
<v Speaker 1>half out of four stars, stating grizzly but stylist directorial
<v Speaker 1>debut by famed horror novelist Clive Barker ugly fun all
<v Speaker 1>the way. Rotten Tomatoes gives it a Tomatometer score of
<v Speaker 1>seventy one percent, with a Popcorn Meter score of seventy
<v Speaker 1>three percent, and also has an IMDb rating of six
<v Speaker 1>point seven. So it takes us to additional thoughts or questions,
<v Speaker 1>or some additional thoughts or questions you have about Hell Raiser?
<v Speaker 2>Well, an additional thought is that Ebert but a little
<v Speaker 2>rough on the review there? Yeah, didn't think I thought
<v Speaker 2>it was. Yeah, maybe this movie didn't have much reason,
<v Speaker 2>but it certainly had style. What was he talking about?
<v Speaker 2>I don't know anyway? Why did Kirsty exactly why did
<v Speaker 2>she end up in the hospital after she ran out
<v Speaker 2>of the house. Was it just exhaustion?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I think so? Okay, but why the police have
<v Speaker 1>to you know, I don't understand that. You know, I
<v Speaker 1>found interesting watching this, like who really is the villain
<v Speaker 1>in this movie?
<v Speaker 2>Hmmm?
<v Speaker 1>And Kingdom realize it really is Frank Cotton. Like the cinebytes,
<v Speaker 1>they're bad, but they're not bad, if that makes sense.
<v Speaker 1>That's yeah, you open the realm. We figure if you
<v Speaker 1>want to come in, so right, you asked for it,
<v Speaker 1>come on in.
<v Speaker 2>I like that observation, just to think about that, because
<v Speaker 2>it's just a cursory glance and you look at the
<v Speaker 2>VHS box, you would just think, yeah, oh god, Centobyites bad.
<v Speaker 2>They're they're the villains, and I mean that's just not
<v Speaker 2>really the case. Like you said, they're just the wardens
<v Speaker 2>for the Prison of Hell as described in the research.
<v Speaker 2>That's all. They're just doing their job. So it's your choice.
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to you want to enter? Do you
<v Speaker 2>want to summon this world? As Pinhead would say, then
<v Speaker 2>that's on you. And that is I mean there's a
<v Speaker 2>real gross grosso factor with Frank Cotton in this. I
<v Speaker 2>mean every time he says come to Daddy in this
<v Speaker 2>you're just like, yeah, he's definitely the villain. So I
<v Speaker 2>think it's a good call, Bill Sleeves. The only thing
<v Speaker 2>I was just gonna ask, is hell Raiser to a
<v Speaker 2>better movie? But you said your favorites hell Raiser three.
<v Speaker 2>And I've caught bits and pieces of other sequels just
<v Speaker 2>out of you know, my morbid curiosity, I suppose, or
<v Speaker 2>just to see because I think the Centa bites are
<v Speaker 2>really cool. I'm like, well, what are these storylines going
<v Speaker 2>to be? And is there going to be any real
<v Speaker 2>resolution to what happens with the puzzle box and or
<v Speaker 2>this other realm. I didn't know if you had any
<v Speaker 2>more thoughts on the sequels.
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think last night when I was watching it again,
<v Speaker 1>like I said, to be just kicks into another movie
<v Speaker 1>and they went into Yeah it was hell Raiser judgment.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what number it is in the Spanish sequels,
<v Speaker 1>and I'm watching the first ten minutes going wait did
<v Speaker 1>this cut into the middle of the movie? Is this
<v Speaker 1>really how the movie begins? I had no idea what
<v Speaker 1>the hell was going on. It was bizarre.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I was like, you know what, I don't need to
<v Speaker 1>watch this any further. I'm just gonna shut.
<v Speaker 2>Off right now. There you go.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm not even saying three is the best one.
<v Speaker 1>I just watched it over and over against because of
<v Speaker 1>who was Okay, not necessarily because it was a good movie.
<v Speaker 1>That's how much my obsession was of Paula Marshall at
<v Speaker 1>the time and understood Yeah, yeah, I uh now who
<v Speaker 1>just happens to be in DS nine, So I watch
<v Speaker 1>every that's Terry Ferrell man for an episode. Yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious to go back to visit Hell Raiser two
<v Speaker 1>Hell Bounds, just to wonder how much will come back
<v Speaker 1>to me and if it is a little bit.
<v Speaker 2>More polished or feels that it had, you know, a
<v Speaker 2>little better a little bigger budget to work with on
<v Speaker 2>that one, and the effects are maybe even better. I
<v Speaker 2>don't see.
<v Speaker 1>They turn it around really fast, so we'll see. So yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I think I need to go at least back and
<v Speaker 1>watch that.
<v Speaker 2>One, and then the twenty twenty two remake I was
<v Speaker 2>curious to see. I still haven't seen it though.
<v Speaker 1>But I mean, anytime you read stuff online, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>people crush all these they're just so disappointed that they
<v Speaker 1>really screwed up this whole franchise.
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm.
<v Speaker 1>But the fact they were still able to churn out
<v Speaker 1>eleven now and I think that includes the remake That's nuts.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a lot. I mean, that's wild, It's this
<v Speaker 2>is a huge franchise.
<v Speaker 1>But I think half of them were direct a video.
<v Speaker 2>I think the question I really should ask you is,
<v Speaker 2>if you were a cenobite, which one would you be?
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I gotta be Pinhead. Chatter is pretty cool,
<v Speaker 1>Cheddar is pretty cool, can't be Butterball.
<v Speaker 2>But I heard for the.
<v Speaker 1>First one they had the poor actor I'm not sure
<v Speaker 1>if the same one for was having a drooling problem
<v Speaker 1>with that chatter thing in his mouth all the time.
<v Speaker 1>So I'm like, ah, yeah, I don't think i'd want
<v Speaker 1>to I want to be doing that.
<v Speaker 2>Did they have to attend to him with one of
<v Speaker 2>those dentists like suction things the whole time? Probably they
<v Speaker 2>said they fix it. For the second one.
<v Speaker 1>If I'm just standing on set and you're just like
<v Speaker 1>seeing drool like pouring, now, no thing.
<v Speaker 2>They probably were like, oh no, that's just part of
<v Speaker 2>the effects. It looks great. Yeah, a lot of drooling.
<v Speaker 1>Trying to move on to our ratings. So, on a
<v Speaker 1>scale of one to five puzzle boxes, what would you
<v Speaker 1>give hell Racer?
<v Speaker 2>I'm given this three and a half puzzle Boxes, A
<v Speaker 2>confident three and a half puzzle boxes, Bill ban because
<v Speaker 2>considering that this was Barker's directorial debut, that it was
<v Speaker 2>on a limited budget, that it spawned a lasting franchise,
<v Speaker 2>pretty damn good. Thought. The performances were solid. Got we
<v Speaker 2>should have done this probably in trivia, But shout out
<v Speaker 2>to Bob Keene who was in charge of the makeup,
<v Speaker 2>effects and such, because the makeup, the effects, costume design.
<v Speaker 2>Predit to all of those that put work into that,
<v Speaker 2>because they're all great. Some of those effects and sequences
<v Speaker 2>are just really wild and disturbing stuff I just had
<v Speaker 2>never seen before in my life, especially now when I
<v Speaker 2>was a kid. The cenobytes hold up for me. But yeah, overall,
<v Speaker 2>the selling point is the mind of Clive Barker. It's
<v Speaker 2>this freaky world. It only asks questions and sparks curiosity
<v Speaker 2>into the cult or like you said, obsession. This sato masochism,
<v Speaker 2>the sexual aspect of it. There's a real abyss to
<v Speaker 2>this that you can kind of fall into. And what
<v Speaker 2>is hell? What our taps into our deepest, darkest, most
<v Speaker 2>visceral desires and secrets of the flesh. Barker's got a
<v Speaker 2>hell of an imagination and an ingenuity behind his ideas
<v Speaker 2>that can take hold of your mind and take you
<v Speaker 2>to some dark places. So it's impressed and impactful for me.
<v Speaker 2>So this one still has an effect for sure. So
<v Speaker 2>I give it three and a half puzzle boxes.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm giving it three myself. The effects would be
<v Speaker 1>number one. The mythology number two. Music number three, that'd
<v Speaker 1>be my pros. My big con is Claire Higgins as
<v Speaker 1>Julia Cotton. I just don't find her believable as Larry's wife,
<v Speaker 1>and that causes some issues. And then just the ending itself,
<v Speaker 1>it just kind of just becomes like a monster chase.
<v Speaker 1>It kind of gets away from the whole mythology. So
<v Speaker 1>a little bit disappointing, and the fact that, like I said, overall,
<v Speaker 1>it's just disgusting. Like I said, you do not want
<v Speaker 1>to eat anything while you're watching this movie. And shout
<v Speaker 1>out to Ashley Lawrence for her film debut. She did
<v Speaker 1>a pretty good job with this also. And of course
<v Speaker 1>Douc Bradley is Pinhead or leads Cinnabite or in the
<v Speaker 1>book it's priest agreed. Yeah, I would, yeah, I would
<v Speaker 1>certainly recommend it. And if you look at it online,
<v Speaker 1>maybe watch the second one and then after that just
<v Speaker 1>pretend the other ones never happened. Maybe I don't know.
<v Speaker 1>I think I've heard some decent things about the remake,
<v Speaker 1>but I'll have to check that one out myself. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>So that about wraps it up for this week's episode.
<v Speaker 1>As always, we appreciate you tuning in. Don't forget the
<v Speaker 1>balls on your favorite streaming platform, leave it rating, and
<v Speaker 1>drop us a review, hopefully a positive one. Want to
<v Speaker 1>know more about the show, of course you do. Head
<v Speaker 1>over to All Insmovies podcast dot com.
<v Speaker 2>All the latest details.
<v Speaker 1>We help join us next time as we dive into
<v Speaker 1>another classic from the greatest movie decade ever teen eighties.
<v Speaker 1>Until then, stay cool, stay retro, and have an excellent
<v Speaker 1>day everyone.
<v Speaker 2>Oh no tears please, it's a waste of good suffering.
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for staying up with us. Good night world, for
<v Speaker 2>secret alliances and murderous seductions have been made, which will
<v Speaker 2>permit My god, I hate the way this is written.