#236 - I Talk To My Friend Lionel Richie About Kenny Rogers + I Talk About Kenny Rogers Legacy

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Speaker 1: M HM episode two thirty six, it's remembering Kenny Rogers and we'll talk to Matt Ramsey of Old Dominion, lead singer of That Grew. Kenny Rodgers died over the weekend. I guess I saw a Saturday morning um and crazy because I just looked at Kenny Rodgers and in newest songs and obviously was a fan like everybody else. My grandma was a fan, so made me a fan. And then later on in his life and early on in my career in Nashville, we got to be I wouldn't say friends, but definitely friendly acquaintances where we would make a point to see each other or talk to each other. And so yeah, woke up Saturday and saw the day passed away was eighty one years old, and so I kind of wanted to talk about that for a minute, which, by the way, I did talk to Lionel Ritchie today and the next couple of days will have him he's gonna do the radio show, I'll talk about Kenny. But he was like, hey, man, I'll do whatever, and so it's just weird that I can just call line. I was kind of well, because I never want to hit up my friend ends to do my work stuff. It's why I think Luke Brian comes on the show far less now than he ever did before, because again, I don't ask my friends to do much. You know. I'd love to have Darius on the podcast. And last night Darius and I were texting for like fifteen minutes. He was sending me demos because he's he's recording songs and he's like, man, I'm trapped in the house. I'm doing all this quarantining, so I'm just writing and he's like, what do you think about this song? And I normally don't listen to demos, but I'm listening to this, going, well, first of all, what weird life is this that you're sending me demos and going what does this make you think about? You know, what do you think about this? But then I would never be like, hey, dude, come on the Bobby. I don't know. It's just a weird line to walk. So it's gonna be cool to have Lion alone. That's awesome because he Lna. Richie really is the greatest guy. And we'll talk about him coming up in a second, because he wrote one of Keny Rogers the biggest songs, so Kenny Rogers died at at eighty one years old. By the numbers, he had twenty four number one hits, sold over fifty million albums in the US alone, six C M A S, three Grammys. The Gambler, which I've mentioned on the show, I think is one of the biggest songs of all time because massive song many charts, multiple movies. He played the character in a bunch of the movies. And this song isn't just about gambling. I mean it really is a kind of a metaphor for life. Like think about that. You gotta no one to hold them, like stay in, stay in the fight, no one to fold him when to go all right, I'm not gonna win this, so I'll put energy somewhere else, no one to walk away going on, and then no where to run would just get get the crab out of there. Like sure, it's about gambling, but that's like a metaphor for life. You never count your money when you're sitting at the table. You never count your chickens before they hatch. So the Gambler comes out massive song, And I talked to him about this in the interview of the show. He was in the original record of we all the world where they're all alright, Michael Jackson, did Michael look this stuff for me? Did the Lionel Richie right, we are the world? Good question because maybe Michael and Steve, I don't know. You tell me. If you were going to ask me in trivia, I would say, Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie, you're correct. Written by Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie, produced by Quincy Jones. Abody got that right, and I wouldn't know where it comes from because sometimes I'll just recall, well, I'll recall thinks and start questioning myself. You always do that, so it's always easily right in trivia. I just I just jump at it and I missed quick, but also get right quick. But yeah, Lionel Richie wrote, we have the world crazy? Huh. He co chaired Kenny Hands Across America, a campaign which thought to raise awareness about homeless and hungary in the U S. But if you it was that logo of all those hands holding a bit before you, a bit before me, Like I fucking vaguely remember it. I think I remember the pop culture references to it, but not its actually happening. And in the horror movie. Yeah, and Kenny Rodgers announce his retirement. So this is by the numbers. He did, you know, retired to spend time with his family. Here's a quote. There are a lot of things that I wanted you together, and I want to create some special memories. Have a bucket list of my own. I have a bucket list I want to do with them. And when he was on the show in two thousand and thirteen, he talked about his his young kids because he had kids again. Later. His name is Kenneth Rogers, and we'll talk about why he changed from Kenneth to Kenny, because he was going by Kenneth for a long time as a stage name. He was born eight He's a Texan. While his name was Kenneth Donald on his birth certificate, his family always called him Kenneth Ray. He grew up super poor. He lived with his parents. He had six siblings. They lived in the projects, and it took him a while to figure out what he wanted to do because he was a star athlete too. But by high school he thought, I think I'm gonna doom music. So he bought himself a guitar and he started a group called the Scholars and what you're gonna hear about Kenny. What is interesting is the country was later on for him. He was in jazz and rock. He did all this stuff and then moved to country. Or if that happened today, which it does happen today, people would go eating the country, and he's one of the most country. It's kind of a rockabilly band called the Scholars. Then he moved over to a kind of folk style and he joined New Christie Minstrels in nineteen sixty six. Let me know if you have any clips of this stuff. I know where so are. Some of this stuff is so right now because I look for some of the early stuff to when I couldn't find any of the music except really bad versions. So he left and did a group called First Edition, and it was kind of folk and rock and a little bit of country. Now I know this song. I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in on a jagged sky. I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in gray that's a that's a that's Kenny Rogers condition, condition, wasn't it. I would hear this on the oldie station, and I never knew that that was Kenny Rogers. I knew the song, but they were for um first edition and then they ended up being Kenny Roder Kenny. I don't know if it's Kenny or Kenneth at this point, but it was. They put his name on the front of it too. Uh So, in nineteen seventy four, before We were born, he left the group, went solo and decided to focus his energy on country music. So at this point it's been psychedelic rock. He did folk rock. He was he played bass, stand up bass in a jazz band, and he goes solo and Love Lifted Me became his first solo Top twenty. Come on. A couple of years later, h Kenny hit the top of the charts. Here you go. You may know this one. This is Loocilli to Leave Me, Lucy Mans and my Grandma all over it. It's about a guy being left by his wife. And this song did well in the pop charts too. It was a top five pop song, got him a Grammy Best Country Vocal. I mean he was basically Dan and Jay before Dan and Jay existed, and I mean that in the most loving, like complimentary way. So Lucille was really the first song to pop him and you know, he was super poor still before lo still, but this hit him and actually made him a little bit of money. And when the song started to hit, he went from broke to being able to buy his own jet pretty quick. Like it was like poor, poor, poor, poor, well bam in like two or three months. I mean buying a jet. That's money money. That's not a little bit of money, that's money money. So then we go up to seventy eight and he released The Gambler, got a Grammy for that, No Win the Fold No Win obviously one of his biggest hits. And again, if you ask me which one is bigger between The Gambler and Islands and the Stream, I don't know. They're both ubiquitous in music. So what would you say, Mike, I would probably say I was in the Stream. I think that's the song. Given my mom would know. You don't think she would know they gamble or just from not even music. I think more so Islands in the show. I'm not arguing, I like, maybe it depends on who you talk to, because Islands and Stream and have five movies made about it. It's true. By the way, this song was written by the Begs one of the Bejes, and the Bejes was supposed to they were gonna They did cut a version of it, but it was after right later on, like almost in two tribute. So it was written by the Begs. Um Dolly and Kenny cut it. It's massive. Those are the two biggest songs, you know. He also it was a photographer. You know, what I find is a lot of these guys are just out on the road a lot, seeing a lot of stuff, and like, what do I do to fill the time? While I can do drugs or drink or run or photography, A lot of them will do photographer Ronni Dundust photography. And so he went all around the country and he did a book called Kenny Rogers America, and it was a bunch of a bunch of stuff that he had seen. They did another book called Your Friends of Mine, which was a picture book. He did a bunch of movies, a bunch of TV movies because back in the day those were bigger than they are now. You don't see those much now. Now you see Netflix movies, which I guess would kind of be the new the reinvention of that. He had his own record label. He did the deal Man in which is why I got to meet him and spent time with him. Was when he kind of started coming back around again because he released the album you Can't Make Old Friends, and that song I thought was great they performed that. I think it's a c m as seven dollar since way back you Can Free. He pulled out of a performance in North Carolina in the casino and they say, hey, we're gonna canceled the final dates of the tour because of a series of health challenges. He said, I've thoroughly enjoyed this opportunity to say farewell to the fans over the course of the last two years on the Gambler's Last Deal Tour. I could never properly thank them for the encouragement and support they've given me throughout my career and the happiness that I've experienced as a result of that. You know, a lot of celebrities have reacted. Lionel Ritchie wrote, today I lost one of my closest friends. So much laughter, so many adventures to remember. My heart is broken. He wrote this break Anny Lady, and by the way, we play a lot of Kenny's other songs. He has a ton of number one we'll be here all day on this wall. Dolly Parton remembered our partner quote, you never know how much you love somebody until they're gone. I've had so many wonderful years and wonderful times with my friend Kenny. But about all the music and success, I loved him as a wonderful man and a true friend. Here's the clip of Dolly talking about Kenny from her Twitter. I loved Kenny with all my heart. My heart's broken, and a legal chunk of it has gone with him today. And I think that I can speak for all his family, his friends, and fans when I say that I will always love you. God bless Kenny. Fly straight to your own from God. Here's Kenny Rodgers talking about how he found his own niche after he knew he couldn't with the younger artists. Basically, I'm a guy who's had enough experience, enough age to tell stories, and a lot of the young kids can't do that because they don't have the age and the history. So I think that's my niche is finding songs like the greatest Buy Me a Rose, I Can't I Love You, songs that maybe some of these young guys can't do, because I certainly can't compete with them in what they do, and I would or try that. I learned a long time ago that you find your own niche and stay there, and then you try. Once you get in, you try to expand that envelope. He was inducted in the country was a Call of Fame in This is him on getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. He said, you know, I have good news and bad news. And the good news is we're inducting you into the Hall of Fame. The bad news is you can't tell anybody. I said, Can I tell my wife? He said, if she's like any wife I've ever known, don't tell her. So we started with that biography. Kenny Rodgers is premiering Monday, April, and this is a chronicle of Kenny Rogers life from childhood through the first edition when they blew up and they fell the gambler, pop Eye got pardon me my icon and because of coronavirus, they're not doing a big service quite yet, they say at a later date he was married five times. A lot of money going out, that's who you think of. Yeah, he was married five times over the course of his life. With his first wedding taking place in nineteen fifty eight. In June, married first, fifth and final time to Wander Miller when he died in a couple of the married for twenty three years, Kenny had five children. He had wanted to share identical twin boys, which were born in two thousand and four. The odd thing is, you know, despite his most popular song being about gambling, he really wasn't a gambler. I mean he told me on the radio show that he couldn't win enough to excite him, but he could lose enough to piss him off, or something like that. And so he lived with Don Henley for a while from the Eagles in nineteen seventy Kenney Rogers produced record for Don Henley before he was in the Eagles, and uh, Don Heley was in a band called Shiloh I think right, and so Kenny Rogers lived with him. He was a really good tennis player, and that says he was a professional tennis player. I'm not sure what that means, because it would be professional you have to go and play for money. Because he would play with professionals at that level. He said that for a period of tenures he was playing tennis for about eight hours a day, and he was even on the road with Wimbledon champions. If you're doing anything, I bet he was ripped. If you're doing anything athletic for eight hours a day, Holy crap. He's a talented interior designer and he had a mantra. He said to have coined the phrase success is no reason to quit, and he truly believed it. Kenny Rodgers was one years old. Rest in peace, Kenny Rogers. Holy moly, you gave us a bunch of good music and we appreciate that. Hey. So, I was just talking about Lionel Richie in the last segment and how he wrote Lady for Kenny Rodgers, and so I wanted to get him on the phone later in the week, but he just so happened to text me and go, Hey, what's up. And I was like, we're in the studio right now. So it's not every day you get a call from Lionel Richie. So I talked to him. And you'll hear it right here about Kenny Rodgers, who he was great friends with. You're gonna hear that. The story behind Lady a low American idol, so a real treat a guy that I love being around and has been so cool to me. Here is Lionel Richie. Hello, Hello, Lionel. Yeah, hey, it's Bobby. Well. How you doing, man? How are you holding up? Oh? You know, health wise? Like I'm good? How what are you doing right now? And are you just locked in the house? Listen? Man, I am Listen. I have boulders against the gate, I have I have a mask on my cell phone. What are you talking about? I don't trust me. Yeah, it's wild, especially where you are. Oh please, I'm in ground zero of it on the west coast. What are you talking about? Luke and I? I mean, we're in Nashville and it's here, but it's not like it is out there. No, no, no, let's see. But the trick is is that anything coastal, you know, like East coast, West coast, that's where it comes in. Well, I'm thinking about you. I miss you. Hey man. Listen. All I told Bruce is you know you don't think that God's gonna make all this happen for us and then all of a sudden, you know, they take us out. That's not what I want to do. Well, I'm glad to hear you. Healthy, and you're good. You know I was, And I want to talk to you about Kenny a little bit because I got to know Kenny later, and Kenny and I became really friendly in the later part of his life, and I know you and him were close for years. Well, you know, let me, let me, let me be very honest with you. I just lost one of my heroes. That is the best way I can describe Kenny because of the fact that, you know, I met him at a time in my life when I was trying to figure out, like, you know, transitioning from the Commodores into my solo career. And you know, God said me an angel, because this guy was probably one of the nicest guys I've ever met in my life, and full of knowledge, full of life knowledge, and he was able to you know, he was in a group called the First Edition, and everything I was about to experience as a young kid, he had already been through it. And so it was just a beautiful relationship that blossomed into something called the friendship forever. We have lived a lot of life together. So when you write, lady, how long did you have that? Or use was that meant to get to him? It was that for you. Like, what was the story between you writing it and him recording it? Well, it's all about I think it's about God's plan because it was actually designed, the melody of it was supposed to be for the Commodores. And at particular time I had written you know, three Times a Lady and all these other songs, and so the guy said, you know what mineld. Do you have anything else besides another love song? I said, well, I wrote a religious song that Jesus is love. He said, we'll take that. We like that. That's a good that's a good transition from what we're doing. So now I went from having another ballad to now having this thing sitting around. Well, I got a call from Kenny rogers Is saying do you have a song for me? And I said, Kenny, I quite honest with you. I I have a song, but I don't have time to do it because we're the Commodorees are going on tour in about two weeks and I'm not going to be able to do it. But I'll do it when I come back. I hung up with the phone. About three days later, the drummer for the Commodore's fell off his motorcycle, and I had two months free time because he was the bree And I called Kenny back and said, are you interested in that song? He said absolutely. Well, the funny part about this story is my mumbles. I don't write the words because if you know anything about writing a song with the commodos, for God's sakes, you don't finish the song because in two seconds they will say, we don't like it? What else do you have? So I always would have basically the first verse of it all and nothing else. Well, the song was called Baby just Baby Bay bah bah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Right, and I now go to meet Kenny and he had never heard a song pitched like this before because I've never pitched the song to anyone. So I walked in his in his backstage area of his show, and he said, okay, what's the song? And I said what he was telling me about? He had just got married and he's never in his life ever, he's never married. He married a lady, a real lady like Lionel. I mean, what am I doing with a lady me of all people? You know? So he said, oh yeah, By the way, what's the name of the song? I said, lady, I'm no fool. And then from there, of course, I said, lady, I'm your night, ain't shining armor and I love you bah bah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. He said, well, I said, do you like it? He said, well, where is the rest of the song? I said, well, no, I'll finish it if you like it, so he trusted me. Of course, he tells that story. You'll hear this story. He'll repeat the story back. He said. I couldn't believe that's all he played for me, And of course we went in the studio and a massive hit. But he always teases me because while we were recording that song, I wrote two songs for him. The first song was called Going Back to Alabama and the second song was Lady Well. I thought, just to warm up with Kenny, I will do I'll do Going back to Our Bama first, just to get used to recording with him, and then we'll knock out Lady Well. We get halfway through Going back to Alabama, he said, I don't I don't really want to sing the song, but let's just sing lady. Well, I didn't want to tell him I had only written the first verse, so so he sang the first verse, and then I said, you know, I'll be right back. I have to go to the bathroom. And so I'm now in the bathroom writing the second verse, two lady. And of course the joke with Kenny was, if you want to get a great hit record from Lionel Richie, make sure he writes the second verse in the bathroom. But of course that was the story. But I mean, it's it's all true, as crazy as it sounds, but it was just a massive, massive record for both of us, you know, until I was kind of looking back at some old old Kenney stuff. Um, you know he's sang on a weird the world which you wrote, Yeah, you know that was you what that. I was very fortunate too at the particular time when I went into my solo career, I also had Kenny there as my advisor. And the joke was I was hanging out with Kenny's manager, Ken Craigan, and so when I was looking for a manager, Ken said, well, Kenny said, well I got Ken right here. What do you think about that? And I just segued right to we had the same manager. So of course when I did We Are the World naturally with Michael, naturally, Kenny is going to be a part of that no matter what, because I just had to have him in there. And by that time, we were just we were just two peas in a pot by that time. And of course We Are the World was just one of those um you know, I think every once in a while, God kind of possesses you and says, this is what you're really here to do, and the world needs to hear this song, and you need to deliver this message. And of course, you know, even to this day, someone asked me of the day, am I going to write another Wee of the World? And I said, no, I'm just going to play We Are the World again, because every time I try to write a new we of the World, I keep writing the same lyrics that I wrote for We Are the World. The message is the same. Right now, we are challenged, but we are our brother's keeper right now, and we have to make sure that we are taking care of each other because that's what God planned and not to be, you know, a tribe and a tribe and a tribe. But we keep being forced to do something together. And right now, this is that time in life to hear those words again. And I must admit that that song resonates today like it did, you know with thirty some five years ago, thirty five years ago. Well, I know that you and Kenny were dear friends, and I appreciate your sharing the stories about them, and I appreciate you being oh friendly and so kind to me like I love you too. You just have been You just have been the best to me. You haven't you didn't need to be, but you just have been the best to me. Well, you know what I have to tell you something. I've been trained by some very famous people. And when I say that, you know, when I met Kenny Rogers, you couldn't get any bigger than Kenny Rogers. You know that was the gambler I walked in on, and I must tell you, in less than fifteen seconds, he made me feel like we grew up together back in Houston, Texas. You'd follow him on saying, and I learned a big trick, and that is, if you're famous, if you're really famous, you don't have to scare anybody to death. You just have to be as nice as you possibly can, because that's they're already uncomfortable when they first meet you. And I must admit, you were so quiet when I first met you. I figured I gotta cheer you up around you didn't that much noise at all. But you know, I kind of thought, maybe maybe he doesn't want to talk to me. But but you are the sweetest guy. And I'm telling you now that we were with the show together, I mean, this is just a too much fun and we were meant to be together. But don't worry. I think we've got a lot of more life to go. Bobby, I think so too. And and you know I love you. You're you're so good on American Idol, and you still like doing the show. You still love doing the show. Can I tell you something? I am having, truthfully, the best time ever in my life. I when I first started, I kept thinking, Okay, now what am I doing? Because I've got Luke at the other end of the table, and I'm not quite sure what Luke's gonna say, And and Luke scares me, but he's so funny, and we've become the best of friends. I'm actually, you know, I feel like Lucan and Lionel like Kenny and in line on you know it's so crazy, and then of course Katie, when Katie scares the two of us, you know we're in trouble. But you know what I must say, I think about your job. You have the tough job because after we deal with them in front of us, we hand them back to you and they're a nervous wreck. They're nervous going in, nervous coming out. Oh my god. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if I could do your job. Your job is you have to put them together to face us and then pull them back together. But we I must tell you, I'm enjoying the show. It is a delight and the most part, I think that the world needs a little compassion when they see us on that show. Those kids are very brave and uh and I just love kind of being the mentor for them. I'm gonna play us out here. What's your one line? You have one song? The crowd you it's a it's a stadium. They say you only get to play one song line? What are you gonna play? Um? If I had to play one song, it would be my my theme song, which is easy, like Sunday Morning I just I think that's just the way I feel. Man, listen, I love you, I'll see you soon. Be safe, my friend. All right, my friend, And tell everyone all the listeners out there hanging there. This is going to be a rough ride, but but God will get us through this. All right, line, I'll see letter friend alright. Brother,