Episode 234

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised. We just got done talking with your husband,
and I will tell you exactly what I told him. You are throwing
him under the bus. He's throwing you under the bus. One of you
is one of the world's worst people. Hello, lovers of true crime.
This is season ten, episode two hundred and thirty four of Sword and Scale,
a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. Well, Happy
Valentine's Day. We have a very very special love themed episode for you.
How exciting a wonderful episode? Do you snuggle up with your boo and listen
to were you've already threatened with violence if they don't, listen to your favorite
podcast with you and enjoy some chocolate treats. You know hopefully he got you
some Otherwise there may be someone other than the protagonist in this story getting murdered
tonight. All right, that's enough for a play. Let's get down to
business, shall we. The worst prison in the world is a home without
peace, So be careful who you marry. This quote has been recently attributed
to actor Johnny Depp, even though he's not really the first person to say
it. You may have heard of mister Depp. He is or was kind
of famous, and in May and June of twenty twenty two he was in
the news quite a bit, something about defamation and a shitty marriage. Anyway,
regardless of who first warned others to be careful about who they chose to
marry, it's good advice. In some cases, a bad marriage can absolutely
feel like a prison sentence, and when this happens, walking away from one's
spouse is usually much easier said than done. A husband or wife might feel
trapped and decide to stay in what has become an unhealthy and unbearable relationship.
Maybe their reasons involve finance. Maybe it's for the children. Maybe it's just
an overwhelming sense of obligation to live up to some family traditions or your own
promises. Whatever the reason, many unhappy spouses have chosen to remain in their
self made prison. But in other, more extreme cases, a marriage can
be so bad and so lacking in all the things that make up a strong
relationship that it can lead to a very real and very long stay in an
actual prison, where the only thing a person is committed to for life.
Is their prisons sell walls. July eighteenth, twenty eighteen, was a hot
and muggy day in the city of Orlando, Florida. That morning, a
young woman stepped out of her apartment to do what she did most mornings,
walk her dog. But before she would even make it out of her apartment
complex, her day became anything but typical. Just a few steps from her
front door, this young lady ended up making a phone call to nine one
one, so didn't he corn it? Hey, how are you doing?
Makes so thankful? She was like squid over. My dog was sitting around,
so around. She was running over to the door. So I said,
I'm not probably her bella and I've seen them the next naples see her
nose as gweed and she aren't response to I said, you're sitting on the
count and her doors wide over okay, And he said that is it the
house apartment? Apartment? Okay, So it's just her in the apartment,
yes, okay. Does it look like she was maybe injured by someone or
does it look like she was maybe sick or I really don't know. I
just want to make and she she is not moving them and she looked purple.
Not long after this nine one one call was placed, Orlando Police responded
to the scene, and their investigation ultimately led them to question a different young
woman named Amelia Bassoon. All right, Amelia, so how long have you
lived at that house over there? And either June or July? You just
purchased a home. Okay, it's a big home. Yeah, we just
moves here from New York. Really, we're in New York. I'm from
Queen's Queens and you're you said your husbands name was Joshua. Were you working
right now for Chase in high house? How we work for Chase for um?
December will be three years. I believe any issues? What you working
to Chase? Um? No, I got to write up recently he did.
Yeah, what happened? Um, I issued two checks for a customer
and I want to write it for that because they weren't in the branch.
Twenty five year old Amelia worked as a personal banker at Chase Bank in Orlando,
and she had recently been given a written warning for issuing two twenty five
thousand dollars cash years checks for a client that was not present in the bank
when she issued them. This was of course, against the bank's policy,
as the client always needs to be present when money is taken out of their
account. What was the name of the customer? Gerald? You know?
His last name Stuck? I think I mean had you been a banker for
him for a while? I mean, yeah, I think his banker since
they moved here. How do you appear to you? Is he young guy?
Old guy? How did he appear to you when you talked to him?
Okay? He was okay, Do you ever have any issues when when
you talked to him about remembering things or anything like that? He told me
had brain like I know, like a little about himself, like he had
brain surgery. So what happened with these checksum? I think we just that
I should she call them? Have slove record over Leobal security. They wanted
to make sure that I wasn't like, I guess stealing. Seventy three year
old Gerald Stack was a military veteran that suffered from dementia, and he trusted
Amelia as she had been a banker for a few years. Despite his mental
issues, Gerald was aware that his health was in decline and that he might
be on borrowed time should the worst happen. Gerald wanted to set aside some
money for his grandson. So Amelia convinced Gerald to put fifty thousand dollars into
a very special account. When he came in to get to Kisher's checks,
who were they made out to his grandson? No, they were made out
to my son, Julian Hewick. Really yeah, why is that? So?
He didn't want his son grandson to have her funds right away, so
he said that if we can keep the funds and just keep it safe for
him, why why did you write it in your son's name? I put
it in my son's name. So he didn't ask you to do that.
No, I'm make sure I summed itself right. So you convinced a seventy
three year old man with a lot of money. Did he talk to you
about giving his grandson fifty thousand? He did, guess, okay, And
so we're talking about giving this fifty thousand ousters grandson. You convinced him to
take that money and put it in your grand in your son's name, and
put it into account and hold on to him. Yes. Essentially, Amelia
persuaded this elderly, trusting, and disabled man to issue two twenty five thousand
dollars checks to her son, and the agreement was that Amelia would hold onto
those checks for safe keeping. Shockingly, Amelia didn't keep those checks safe.
Instead, she gave them to her husband. Where did you put them?
My husband took them? Would he do with them? I guess he happened
an account with them? Where I don't know? And what were you supposed
to do with the checks? Keep them until his grant? He told me
grants and hedn't know him. So did he tell you that? Yet?
She get the money back? Ready? Where's the money? My husband know
what happened? Amelia and her husband, twenty eight year old Josh Ramsawmi,
were newly weds. They had been married for less than a year. When
Amelia gave Gerald's checks to Josh. He opened a new account at Bank of
America and deposited them. Then the two of them quickly began spending that money.
They bought home appliances, they paid off some credit car hard bills,
covered their mortgage payments, and even purchased a shiny new laptop. So we
trust to do this money? You were supposed to give it back to him
at some point in time, Yes, sir, yeah, would you spend
it. Is that a good thing to do? No, sir, how
are you going to pay him back? Over time? I guess one money
was for his grandson in a sense. What do you mean in the sense?
I mean in a sense. Yeah, but you didn't give me permission
but the check in license. But he didn't give you permission sense to spend
it? I guess not. We talked to Gerald, all right. Gerald
can't barely tell you what day it is, okay, so and anybody who
talks him should know that he has mental issues. Right now, you looked
like somebody wanted to steal from a confused old man. Amelia didn't just look
like someone that wanted to steal money from a confused old man. She was
someone that did steal money from a confused old man, and the way she
went about it was pretty clever. In an attempt to cover her tracks,
Amelia had added a computerized note to Gerald's bank account, and this note explained
that Gerald had mental issues and would frequently forget about purchases he made and money
he withdrew. Of course, anyone taking a close look at the account would
see that Amelia was the one who added this note to avoid that Amelia convinced
a coworker to let her use their login. Were you at the tellerlan or
were you at your desk at my desk, at your desk? Okay.
So Amelia came over to you at your desk, and she said she wanted
to be horror my computer to put notes in the system because her system went
down. So I was busy with that customer. She typed the notes in
the system. Do you know? I don't know what she typed in the
system. Obviously, the theft of mister Stack's money wasn't something that just happened.
It was a well planned and premeditated operation. Interestingly, despite that,
Amelia's boss notified the bank security, and even though Amelia had been investigated,
she did not lose her job. Chase didn't fire her, and they didn't
report any of their findings to the police, which reminds me I need to
change bank accounts immediately. So when you were made aware that Amelia had done
these two transactions for twenty five thousand dollars each and that and you had told
her not to, what did you do next? I went into the account
and I reviewed it myself. So you reviewed the account as well. Okay.
Into that indicate anything to you? Well, it indicated that she when
avoided, you know, getting someone else involved? Sure, okay? Which
was you know suspicious? Okay? So what step did you take next to
it? I submitted a global security investigation? Okay? She did she get
suspended or had the investigation turned out? She was placed on our written warning,
written warning? Okay. The reason that Amelia didn't get fired was because
the savvy security at Chase Bank didn't put it together that the two checks were
written out to Amelia's son. She wasn't fired for stealing her clients money because
nobody knew that she stole it. Amelia only received a written warning for issuing
two checks without a customer being present in the bank, and that was it.
She had seemingly gotten away with it, that is until one of Gerald's
family members noticed that the money was missing from Gerald's account. Do you know
any of Gerald's family members name his grandson? He can tell a new account.
And I know he has a daughter, his daughter named She hadn't called
me. She called you, okay, And what did she say to you?
She asked about the checks? Really? How many times she called me
that day? Coming? The day after. I think she's being Yes,
it's my cell phone. In case you didn't know, it is not common
practice for a personal banker to give out their cell phone number to family members
of their clients for obvious reasons. Amelia didn't want Gerald's daughter calling the bank,
so she convinced Cynthia to call her cell phone instead. You want to
say that I'm not this person. If I can pay him back the money,
I can give him everything. Vow. Well. I think that's kind
of what happened with Cindy, wasn't it. She was pushing for that money
in return, wasn't she? Is she going to call it police? No,
she was just like last time. She was supposed to call me back
last week Friday. I'm do you think it's unusual that Cyndey hasn't called you
since then? She just stopped. Oh, she had told me that she
who was going to reach my thought to me Friday. Today's Thursday. It's
been almost a week. She hasn't reached out to you. I've reached out
to her. Fifty two year old Cynthia Stack lived in a small apartment with
her twenty two year old son, Sean Stack, and the two of them
were the only people caring for elderly and disabled Gerald. But on the morning
of July eighteenth, one of Cynthia's neighbors saw that the apartment door was left
wide open. When this neighbor peered into the apartment, she saw Cynthia on
her living room couch and I've seen the next old neighbors. Her nose is
bleeding. She all responses, you're sitting on the couch and her doors wild
over. Is this the household apartment? Apartment? Okay, so it's just
her in the apartment, dear old. Okay, does it look like she
was maybe injured by someone or does it look like she was maybe sick or
I really don't know. I just want to make and she she is not
moving them, but she looked carful. Okay, sorry, hang on one
second. I'm going to transfer over to the paramedics so they can give you
instructions. Okay. After this nine call was placed, Orlando police arrived on
the scene, and they quickly determined that Cynthia's Stack was dead. She'd been
shot in the head, and the police also found something else, or rather
some one else, so she didn't go all the way and we didn't know
there was a second one in there. Yeah, well, artist haven't moved
or anything. They're just still chatting her. One of the back is totally
covered in blood mail in the bathroom. After walking further into the home,
the police found Gerald's twenty two year old son, Sean Stack dead on the
bathroom floor. He was covered in blood and he'd also been shot to death.
As the police continued processing the scene, they questioned many of the apartment
complex residents. Before long, the events surrounding this double murder started to become
a little more clear. I heard it was really like slow, like les,
I was like shooting, trying to aim what I could hear it.
Then after that you can get it tired, screechs and off. Didn't look
bestie, seeing go still open. You know, I w nobody out here.
Okay, we didn't. We didn't actually see the car. In the
early morning hours of July eighteen, twenty eighteen, someone had gunned down Gerald
Stack's daughter Cynthia and his grandson Sean. The killer or killers apparently left in
a hurry, leaving the apartment door wide open and screeching their car tires as
they fled. Police say a man and woman found dead in an Orlando apartment
complex. Yesterday morning, are a mother and her son, Cynthia Stack and
her son Sean Stack were found in their home on West Jefferson Street. The
cause of their death has not been released, but police say it is being
investigated as a double homicide. Following the discovery of Cynthia and Sean's bodies,
the Orlando Police Department quickly learned that Gerald Stack was Cynthia's father. From there,
all they had to do was follow the money, and it led all
the way back to twenty five year old personal banker Amelia Bassoon and her husband
Josh. On July eighteenth, twenty eighteen, the dead bodies of fifty two
year old Cynthia Stack and her twenty two year old son, Sean Stack were
found in their Orlando, Florida apartment. Both Cynthia and Sean had been ruthlessly
gunned down in their own home, and the killer or killers had left in
a hurry. Aside from Cynthia's seventy three year old father, the only other
surviving family member was Cynthia's daughter Emily. It's never anything Emily Rivera ever imagined
having to deal with her brother, Shan Stack. And mom Cynthia Stack,
killed on July eighteenth inside their paramour apartment, always trying to spread her loves
to other people, always trying to help other people on the Sweetest Wolen After
the cold blooded murders of her mother and older brother, nineteen year old Emily
was left to fend for herself. The gofund me that was set up for
her reads as follows. Friend. Emily, a nineteen year old college student,
needs your support. Earlier this year, she dealt with the tragic loss
of her father, and on July eighteenth, her beautiful, selfless, loving
mother and brother were taken from us in a cold blooded act of violence,
leaving Emily completely alone in the world. She must now find out how to
survive with the challenge of balancing school and her traumas her world has been completely
turned around and she's now trapped in a void of uncertainty surrounding the loss of
her family. As Emily was dealing with the trauma of unexpectedly losing two members
of her family in a brutal double homicide, the police continued investigating the crime.
They eventually learned that Cynthia Stack had recently been asking questions about the fifty
thousand dollars that was missing from her father's bank account, and that she had
been directing those questions at her father's banker, twenty five year old Amelia Bassoon.
Before long, homicide detectives brought Amelia in for questioning, and after playing
coy, she eventually admitted that she had stolen mister Stack's money and given it
to her husband. Interestingly, at the start of this interview, Amelia seemed
unaware that mister Stack's daughter and grandson had been murdered. I think you need
to start understanding that how this interview goes and what you know, what decisions
you make here are going to affect your life for a long, long,
long time. There's a lot more going on here, all right. And
you know whose name is all over this right now. You didn't just hand
Josh with two twenty five thousand dollar checks, she said, Oh, okay,
it went open a back of America account, didn't happen? Well,
I don't listen. We came in here and you're like, oh, it's
Josh, uh huh, all right, you're spending money like it's going out
of style. All right, his money. You're the one to figure this
whole thing out. You're the one who put this together. You understand what
I'm saying. This isn't Josh's idea. This is your idea. So not
Josh is not the mastermind of this. You are. When it came to
the stolen money, Amelia was more than willing to throw her husband Josh under
the bus. But the cops that were questioning her didn't usually investigate financial crimes.
They were two homicide detectives. They investigated murders, and they wanted to
know exactly how involved Amelia's husband became. When Cynthia started asking questions about the
stolen money, Okay, so he knew that there was they were asking about
it. No, he knew, he knew about it. He knew about
the situation in general. What was his response to it? What was he
saying when he told him, Hey, cynd he's asking questions about this?
He was just like, why racial he was? He's normally there when I
talked to her sometimes, But I would imagine, like, for two people
like you that have never been drolling your lives, that's going to cause you
some stress because it's like, hey, we got a family member. When
you and you guys knew that you would spend money. Yeah, of course,
I know. We're never said the fact that she kept calling us,
But it's just we didn't think anything of it. Just what could she do
because it's not her account, like, it's not her money, it's not
her anything. Amelia continued to play coy, and detectives kept pressing her if
her husband, Josh was somehow involved in the murders. Amelia must have known
something about it. If Josh screwed up, he screwed up, that's not
you. You know about that we need to know about. I don't want
to go to jail. I don't want to. You have to trust us.
I don't want to get in trouble for an I don't want to get
in trouble for any of this nothing to do with me. It's possible Josh
went over there and you didn't know, and how would he know where they
live? Though, I'm just not the question I was asked, Is it
possible that he went over there? Nothing I know? You know, so
you don't You can't say for sure he didn't do I can say no,
because he doesn't know where that he doesn't know them. Repeat after me.
Women do not receive favorable treatment in the criminal justice system. Did Josh do
something that he wasn't supposed to do? Not that I know of. Is
it possible? No? How many guns is Josh? Amelia's husband owned at
least two handguns, one of which had been fired a few months before this
interview, when Josh accidentally shot himself in the leg. Yes, we are
dealing with a real criminal mastermind here. The other gun, the one that
police were more interested in, Josh had purchased from a pawn shop just days
before Cynthia and Sean Stack were killed. And you don't know where his gun
is now. No, I don't even know where it was to be us,
But he showed it to you. I saw it. That's how I
find out about it. I saw it. Where was it when you saw
it? It was in a holster. Eventually, after poking at Amelia for
some time, the detectives finally revealed the real reason that they were questioning her,
a reason that Amelia was likely already aware of. What did you do?
I don't know what he did. What do you think? Okay,
what do you think he did? I don't think he did anything. They're
both dead. What? Yeah, they're dead. So now we really need
to call how did they die? Is there anything that you know, anything
you know about It's okay, how's the time? Okay, because let's let's
listen to me, see me, you're you're all over their stuff talking to
them. You took money from their fathers. This was not unamicable. Let's
talk about this, of course. Yeah, I don't someone go get this
girl an oscar. And maybe we can also invite Will Smith back to slapper
across the face. This is how you get in trouble for him for murder.
Yeah, if we find out, in any stretch of the imagination,
any ship way, shape or form, that you were providing some type of
alibi that you're wanting to us about where he was, what you know,
what you don't know about the gun, about any of it. If we
find that out, I guess what you've become, I don't know, become
a principal principle to homicide in the first degree. My biggest thing right now
is I need to know that I'm going home. I need to know that
I'm going to see my son. I need to know that I have no
part of this whatsoever. If you listen, if you didn't know he was
going to go over there and do that. I have no Okay, So
me and Josh and we don't communicate. And I can say that it is
a bad thing that we don't, but we don't. We don't communicate with
one another. If he's going somewhere, he's going somewhere. If I'm going
somewhere, I'm going somewhere. Now, remember, Amelia and Josh had only
been married for less than a year. They were newly wets for police.
If Josh had killed two people, two people whom Amelia had recently been in
contact with about fifty thousand dollars that she stole, it didn't seem likely that
Amelia wouldn't know anything about the murders. Naturally, the police kept pressing her,
and they wanted to know where Josh was on the day that Cynthia and
Sean were killed. That day, he told me that I saw him at
lunch when I got home. He was home when I left to go back
to work. He was still at home getting ready to leave work. But
he told me he was going out. I didn't see where. He just
told me on going out. I didn't talked to him for the rest of
that day because we were fighting Dante age night. According to Amelia, on
the night that the murders took place, Josh wasn't home and he didn't show
up until the following morning. If he wasn't nervous when he got home,
he was really nervous. Do you think Josh killed these people? Do I
think so? Yeah, I would know. I don't hope not. I
mean, so it's just a coincidence that they ended up dad that day and
he wasn't home. Is he capable of killing people over this? He's capable
of killing someone? Yes, I mean he was in the Navy. Even
as as disconnected as YouTube are, I find it hard to believe that something
like that happened. And you have absolutely no knowledgeable whatsoever you know more about
what he did. So I don't think there's a loyalty to him. I
don't think you're worried about tell us what he did. I don't think that's
am I writing that. I mean, you're not worried about tell us what
he did. I don't care about him, and he knows how I am
with my job. I don't want to lose my job. I don't want
to get fired like I have a great job, by have an easy job.
I'm really young, like this is my career. I don't want to
mess anything up. He forced me to. But with through all the funds
out of the guy's killing, I did it, and he took the two
checks and he did whatever he wanted to do with it. Amelia claimed that
her husband forced her to steal Gerald's money. You know that same husband she
never communicated with. Amelia also explained that she had no clue where Josh was
on the night that Gerald's family members were killed. I know he did buy
a gun. I don't know if he had intention to do something to her.
I didn't know that Josh was going to do what he was going to
do, or if he did whatever it is that happened, or if he's
the one that did this. Okay, what do you think your responsibility?
Isn't all this just I was the one that initiated the trans I did the
transaction. That's what I did. Do you feel like a burden of having
it looks like these two people got killed over this too. I mean,
I don't know what, like like the whole extent to me, but I
mean I don't know how to react to that. I like, that's a
thing. I've covered a lot of stories about a lot of terrible people,
but I have to say this woman might be the most insufferable bitch I've ever
heard of. Not only was Amelia clearly holding back and not telling detectives everything
she knew, but she was also playing dumb unconvincingly. Amelia pretended that she
couldn't put two and two together and was unable to recognize her role in getting
two innocent people killed. That poor guy right now, he lost his daughter
and his grandson. I said, he would gladly let you keep the fifty
grand if he could have them back. In the end, these two people
lost their lives because of it. It doesn't happen unless you take that money
out of that account. So I mean in the ending of leads back to
me. There are moments throughout this interview where it can be hard to tell
if Amelia is an awful person trying to lie her way out of trouble,
or if she's just stupid. But let's not forget that this is the same
woman that was able to outsmart the security at her bank. The detectives were
well aware of this, but even so, they played along and spelled everything
out for Amelia, that you and your husband stole fifty thousand dollars from an
elderly man, and then a couple of days after a family member inquires about
these withdraws, her and her son are murdered in their apartment. And I
know you did some things to cover your tracks. You did, you got
away with it, and tell Cynthia started asking questions about it. Let me
just tell you right now, just so you know, Okay, if we
find out that you knew about this murder, contributed to it anyway, knew
about it before after it happened, you're going to be charged with first degree
murder and that is life in prison, even if you didn't pull the trigger.
As the detectives wrapped up this interview, they also placed Amelia under arrest
and at a minimum, she was going to be charged with the crimes associated
with stealing mister Stacks money. As for the potential murder charges, there was
still some investigating that needed to be done. I'm getting fired, aren't time?
Oh yeah, that's that's definitely gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, So
I'm going to jail basically, Yeah, for the financial stuff. What kind
of crime is that. Can I know anything about that. It's a lot
of different charges actually, but like I said, the big ones that you
need to be concerned about. Of the felonies a felon, the biggest charge
in this is the exploitation of the elderly. When it comes to exploiting the
elderly, the state of Florida doesn't fuck around. In fact, if the
funds are property involved in that kind of crime meet or exceed fifty thousand dollars,
as it did in this case, it is considered a first degree felony
and carries a possible sentence of thirty years in prison. After Amelia was made
aware of her charges, the detectives left the interview room and let her stew
in the potential consequences she was facing. Then, when a different detective checked
in on her, Amelia decided to reveal a little more about what she knew.
Well, we're not talking about the check situation, talking about the hobside
so far. What do you know? My husband called these people, pretended
he was somebody else. He got their address. The next day he went
he bought a gun and he went over there. I didn't know what did
he tell you all? He kept saying to me, is I'll take care
of it. What did he tell you afterwards? When he got home,
he took the gun apart. He was shaking. He took all his clothes
off. He put it in a garbage bag. He told me that he
was He didn't tell me what he was going to do, because I don't
know the severity of the situation, Like I didn't know it was. He
never described how, he never physically said, like, did he tell you
that he shot him? Yes, he said he shot him, so he
knew he killed him. Oh, you knew he killed him? Okay.
I just don't want anyone to think that I, like, I didn't know
that it was gonna like, I didn't know that this was gonna hack.
And to absolutely no one's surprised. Amelia knew that Cynthia and Sean Stack were
dead long before the police questioned her, and she also knew that her husband
had killed them. After this admission, the original detectives returned to the interview
room. I was told, you wanted to talk to us a little bit
more. Okay, um, what's going on. I just know the severity
of the situation, and I don't want to be like held like that I'm
a part of any of this or that, like so I know, I
know what Josh dion, and I know what he wanted to do. And
he told me if I were to get involved, and if I were to
say anything, that he would kill me. Come I wanted that and he
would kill myself. There it is. You were waiting for it, weren't
you. Of course you were, because you're a sass hole that's heard one
or two of these tales before. You already knew. And I don't have
to remind you that every single time a woman gets in trouble for doing something
reprehensible, they end up saying that a man forced them to do it.
Well, that's exactly what happened. Amelia's story had changed. Now not only
was she aware of what her husband had done, but allegedly he threatened her,
warning her that he would murder her entire family if she talked about it.
Sure, Amelia, Sure, of course. After hearing this the detectives,
I had some more questions. An hour ago, he said, you
didn't know anything about it, And now all of a sudden, you know,
how do you know that Josh did this? Besides, how do you
know when he came home, he told me that he handled the situation.
He told me that she was sitting down and that the kid was like I
was trying to run away or something. What made you decide I don't want
to go to prison. I don't want to go to prison. Well,
we told you before that they were both dead. That was a complete act.
No, Well, I didn't know that they like, I didn't know
the severity of like if this was true. I didn't know that this,
Like, these people were gone. Did you did they were alive after a
shot? I mean, I don't. I don't know the severity of the
situation. And you did nothing to try to find this out. Look on
the internet, watch the news. Did he show you any articles? No,
he didn't. I didn't google anything. I didn't luck anything out.
That kind of defies logic. Don't you think that your husband would come home
and can as to killing two people and you would be like, would you
even try to find out if it was true? But it's just I don't
want any piece of this. This is why I don't. I don't want
my meeting on anything. I don't want to look up anything. I don't
want any part of any of this, Well, it's a little late for
that. Needless to say, the police weren't entirely convinced that Amelia was telling
them everything that she knew, and at the very least they needed to verify
or discredit what she was saying. The detectives wrapped up this interview and prepared
to question someone else that was very important to their investigation, Amelia's husband,
Josh. Now clearly, Amelia had no issue with throwing her husband under the
bus, and when detectives questioned him, they quickly realized that Josh wasn't much
different than his wife. Much like Amelia, Josh was more than willing to
give police information that might send their spouse to prison for the rest of their
life. In July of twenty eighteen, twenty five year old personal banker Amelia
Bassoon confessed to Orlando, Florida homicide detectives that her husband, Josh, had
murdered the daughter and grandson of one of her banking clients. The murder victims
were fifty two year old Cynthia and her son, twenty two year old Sean
Stack. The presumed motive for the murders involved fifty thousand dollars that Amelia had
stolen from her dementia she had written elderly client Gerald Stack. After Gerald's daughter
started asking questions about that money, both she and her son were found shot
to death in their home. After Emilia was questioned by police, it was
time for her husband, twenty eight year old Josh Ramsamy to answer some questions
as well. Are you married yes to Ameliaia? Right? Okay, we
actually just got married in September last year. Thank congratulations, thank you all
right? So um, you were to Chase, Yes, Hollie, you
were to Chase May seventh. Kind of a new job, yeah, Chase.
Oh I love it. Yeah, the best, one of the best
jobs I've ever had. What do you do to Chase Elections? Critically?
Oh boy? Yeah. Like his wife, Josh also worked at Chase Bank,
but he hadn't been there nearly as long as she had Before he was
hired a Chase. Josh was out of work for several months because he had
accident shot himself in the leg. Since Josh was recovering from this injury and
not bringing in any income, times were tight, hence the likely reason why
he and Amelia decided to steal mister Stack's money. Now When the police sat
down to question Josh, they didn't outright tell him why he was there.
Instead, they wanted to hear it from him. Why do you think you're
sitting here right now? I honestly have no idea, no idea. Who
was less bank account that you opened? Bank of America. Okay, tell
me about that. My wife came home. She gave me two checks.
I think there were twenty five thousand alls of each, and she told me,
hey, you know, she met a customer. He basically gave her
the money for I guess safe keeping or something like that. That was it.
We started to use the money, you know, to pay for mortgage
credit card bills. Just like Amelia, Josh played coy with the detectives,
and if it meant saving his own ass, he was more than willing to
direct blame elsewhere, specifically at his wife. I'm really getting in kind of
trouble or anything like that that you know of, or what happened anything happened,
not that I know, not that you know of. Oh no,
she said. At the branch. Corporate security I think came and questioned her
about it. Nothing else came up recently, not that I know of.
Somebody who was questioned, you knew Joel? No, I don't know him.
Do you know Joel's grandson? No? You know anybody in Jerald's family.
According to Josh, he didn't know anyone in the Stack family. The
only problem with that is that eyewitnesses had placed Josh, or at least someone
that looked a hell of a lot like him, at Cynthia's Stack's apartment.
How is it that you wound up at Cynthia's house Cynthia's apartment, Brount Jefferson,
Because I have I have my witnesses. I put you there was a
guy that's your high hair, a parted, two earrings, everything, You're
there, Okay, I have no question about that. All right? So
what we're trying to understand why you were there? Why are you Cynthia's place?
And and again, who was never her place? Initially, Josh denied
ever being at Cynthia's apartment, but it didn't take long for the police to
break through this denial. Eventually, Josh did admit he was at the apartment
on the day of the murders. Did you go inside? Yeah? I
actually sat down and talked to her. Who's herd to the lady Cynthia was
anybody else in the house, I think the same pitch on and had the
conversation go. I told her, you know, I was there on Amilia's
behalf because she fucked up for one I understand, because apparently the money was
not given to Amelia correctly, and I told her I found out about it.
I talked to her, and then I guess I left. Josh explained
that he and Cynthia reached an agreement Amelia would return mister Stack's money and that
would be the end of it. After this conversation, Josh simply left the
apartment, or so he claimed. Of course, that didn't explain how Cynthia
and her son ended up shot to death, but Josh was ready with a
possible explanation. But after I got done talking to them, I got my
car sat down. I was vaping in my car. After that. That's
when the guy approached me and you were in your car. I was sitting
in my car and he told you he put a gun to your head.
Put a gun to my head. I had my gun sitting next to my
next to my shifter in my car. So he let you get the gun
out of the He let you get the gun out of the console it was
sitting. He got a gun to my head. He said, give me
the piece. We've been watching you, we know why you are here.
And I said, okay, I put my vape down, grabbed my gun,
and I gave it to him. According to Josh, after he left
Cynthia's apartment, a tall black man wearing a dow rag approached him, put
a gun to Josh's head and demanded that Josh hand over his weapon. Josh
complied and then left the apartment complex. Josh explained that he didn't know the
man's name, but he did recognize the gunman from an earlier encounter. Josh
claimed that when Amelia came to him and explained that the money was stolen and
that Cynthia Stack was asking questions about it, Amelia had decided that their best
course of action would be to hire someone to handle the situation. If I'm
understanding you're you're saying, Amelia is the one that talked to somebody to taking
care of them. Yeah, And I don't why, I have no idea.
Well, I mean, how do you know that. Well, they're
really kid that came to our house and I know she gave him some money
or something like that, and he texted me about money and I'm like,
what are you talking as? I think she gives only tempt on him.
She gave him ten thousand dollars to one I have no idea, and from
my understanding, thank you gave him ten thousand dollars for him to kill him
or something. I don't know. You know, you're making this hole that
much bigger. You know that doesn't make any sense to anybody. Josh I
realized that Josh's story might be a little hard to follow, but Josh told
police that Amelia had hired two hitmen to kill Cynthia's Stack and he knew about
it. Josh also admitted that he went with Amelia to pay these two men,
and one of them was the same mysterious tall black man that would later
hold Josh at gunpoint. We gave him like a thousand dollars that night.
Did you know what you were going to do when you went there? You
were going to give him money for what to fix the whole issue. I
don't know what they were going to do. I don't know if they were
going to get money back for drugs. He said, we'll make things right.
Well effort. The first conversation was we'll get her to shut up.
Josh claimed that he didn't know the tall black man that they gave money to,
but he did know the second hit man, and Josh provided detectives with
a name twenty three year old Jay Pursad. How do you know Amelia went
to high school with her. I've known her for alms like over ten years.
She's like a big sister of mine. Momen's last time we talked to
me, that would be last week. That's when she further explains to me.
She's like, you know, I'm going to go to jail on Monday,
so I need to, you know, like send her a message,
you know, scare her or something. And why did she say she was
going to jail on Monday, Because the lady's going to report her on Monday,
so she needs to stop the lady from reporting her. And what exactly
did she want you to find a person to do scare the lady? How
did she say that? Like, what does she want you to do?
She just said, just scare the lady so she doesn't come in on Monday.
Make sure she doesn't come in on Monday to report. Man, what
information did she give you about this lady specifically, She said that she has
all the information on her. We know when I'm ready to give the people
that I find, so she can give them the address and all that stuff.
It turned out that Amelia and Josh had met and hired Jay Persad.
Together. They gave Jay one thousand dollars, and the agreement was that he
would find someone to scare Cynthia's stack into keeping quiet about the stolen money.
This meeting took place at a Walgreen's parking lot, of all places, which
happened to have plenty of surveillance cameras. To no one's surprise, there was
no tall, black second hit man like Josh had claimed. It was just
Amelia, Josh and Jay. The fact of the matter is these two people
that she wanted you to go hire somebody to go scare they're dead. Yeah,
hey, do you understand how important we are now? Right? That
is dead. They were murdered. After the police made Jay aware of the
seriousness of this situation, he was ready to tell all and he explained that
he did take money from Amelia and Josh, but he never intended to hire
anyone, nor did he It's Amelia gave herself up and said that she's going
to jail on Monday. It's sunk in on me. On Friday, I
said, fuck her. She did some old people wrong like this, she
has some money, Let me get a little something out of it. Okay,
let me. I'm paying bills. It's hard out here, right.
I can't even I can't. I can't even pay my phone bill. Man.
Yeah, so you're it's it's tough times, yep. So I said,
I gotta show, you know, if I do talk to someone,
I gotta have, you know, from my past experience, I gotta have
show good you know, faith, you know, I gotta at least have
some kind of money when I'm talking to him, like hey, like show
that I'm serious or something maybe before I go find someone. So I did
meet up with Josh, and he did give me a thousand dollars and I
never versusful effects of them. Jay took Josh and Amelia's money and ran.
The scammers had been scammed, of course, When the detectives questioned Amelia about
this, she played innocent and once again pointed the finger and her husband mens
this question. Who's Jay? Jay? He's like a friend from high school
was less talk Um, Josh called him from my phone? My Josh called
him from your phone? What he took my phone? He called him and
he said for him, because I saw the text messages. He said for
him to come to my house. Like, hey, Sam, if you
called him a texted him, we need to know. I mean again,
we're sending this little convenience thing. This is like a marriagement in hell.
I gotta be honest with you guys, because you're eating Are each other than
a bus? Are you taking this phone? And you are if you talked
to him, we need to know that. No, I didn't see a
needless to say, the detectives had had enough of Amelia's storytelling, and they
had pretty much figured out what had happened. Josh and Emilia tried to hire
someone to scare Cynthia's stack. When that didn't work, Josh likely took matters
into his own hands. We just got done talking with your husband, and
I will tell you exactly what I told him. You were throwing him under
the bus. He's throwing you under the bus. One of you is one
of the world's worst people. Okay, I'm not sure which, but he
this is what you know he's bringing this Jay Prasad into it. Did you
and him on Friday and Saturday go to a Walgreens in Metro West and meet
with Jay? Yes, Josh is giving him money for I don't know.
Do you think Josh is that mad? Or I don't know what is to
just to make this up to say that instead of taking responsibility and say,
yeah, I didn't want my wife to go to prison, so I went
over there child. Instead he's saying nothing to do with this. She paid
Jay Prasad to go do this. Why would I want to kill these two
people if I'm in contact with them? Because Ali, realistically you're the one
that you're the one. Again, how many I don't know how many times
we can say this without you sink it in. If it weren't for you,
Okay, I'm flat. I'll say, if it wasn't for you,
those two people will be alive. Both Amelia and Josh were culpable, and
both of them were more than willing to let their spouse take the fall.
There is no honor among thieves, but in this case it appears there's also
no honor in marriage. Yeah, here's here's the thing. We've talked to
Emilia already. She's spelling it because she's looking at the prospect of never seeing
her son again except for through bars. She's over there saying that you killed
these people. I didn't. I don't have a bone name me to kill
anybody? Is that I I'll tell you right now straight up. I was
there. My gun was taken from me by some black guy. Amelia gave
him ten thousand dollars. Josh maintained his story, but detectives seemed pretty confident
that Josh was the one that pulled the trigger, and they were clearly as
fed up with him as they were with Amelia, if not more so.
I feel like Amelia paid him the money to go kill him. That's how
you can paid him the money. We both did, Yeah, we both
did sometimes. So why would you go behind your back and talk again?
I get lost. Why would you go behind your back and tell him to
go take care of business? I don't know. She's not that kind of
person. Hey, let me explain something to you. You know it was
all over that account. You know it's all over that account. You are,
okay, So don't say you know this whole thing of Oh, she
came home and she just gave me these two twenty five thousand dollars checks and
I just did this. That's bullshit. At this point, Josh had lied
himself into a corner. Since he admitted to paying a hit man, he
only had two options, and neither of them were good. Either fess up
and admit that he murdered two people or maintained that he paid someone else to
do it. Because you're basically saying that she paid this guy Jay to go
kill her. If that's the way you want to go, then guess what
when she gets in trouble for her, she's going away. Then Julian grows
off without a mother. Okay. Now I don't know about that, but
to me, if that's not the case, that's a really shitty thing to
do. If that's what it has to be, it has to do because
for me, all I know is she gave Jay the money for me.
You gave him the money too, exactly, And you don't see see what
you're doing? You keep doing that, Stop doing that. You gave him
the money, called you both of us. So guess what if she's yeah,
exactly, so one way or another year in trouble. Okay, So
let's figure that out up to that. But oh, you're owing up to
the fact that you give this that money and go kill these two people.
I did not know, Yes, no, not owning. Well, it
doesn't work all the way, Josh, it doesn't work much ways. You
can't sit there and say she didn't when you're there with her. You're there
with her, right, you're right. So don't say she went outside and
had a conversation. That's bullshit. You can it's not just you. Can
you listen for a second. Now you can ask her parents, Josh,
I don't want to ask her parents. I'm talking to you. You're a
grown man. I do understay it right. You can't say that she's responsible
for You can't say that we both are. That's right. So now these
two people are dead. You gave somebody money, and you're saying these two
people are dead because of it. No matter how hard detectives pressed him,
Josh would not admit to committing the murders, but he did admit to hiring
someone else to do it, and Josh wasn't willing to assume that blame alone.
If he was going down for conspiring to commit double murder, he seemed
intent on taking Amelia down with him. That Thursday night, she told me
she's going to call Jake and have him take care of it. And I'm
guilty for that. I paid Jake to go ahead, and Josh, I
think he shot and killed these people. I mean, that's I mean,
and that's what happened. And you're lying to us, then you absolutely or
from an art of the bus, she could have sent motion something and she
didn't know what you were going to do, and that's what she's claiming.
If your objective is to not get her in trouble and what both of us
truly believe happened, that you would over there and killed both those people,
then you need to tell us the truth about that. No, I didn't,
okay, but you conspire to have them kill correct, we won't.
Despite this admission, Josh's story still didn't make any sense. If he and
Amelia had hired someone or multiple people to murder Cynthia Stack, why then would
Josh go talk to her in an attempt to amicably resolve the stolen money situation.
It didn't make any sense. This is after you paid these people to
take care of her. Correct, Why would you be worrying about paying her
back the money when you repay these people ten thousand dollars to kill her,
why would you go over there trying to talk to her? Why would you
talk to Himlily about paying her back? Because there are two innocent people like
Okay, did you make any efforts to call James elim not to do it?
And we want the money back. I'm going to go pay her?
Why not? I don't know. You don't know, that's the best answer
you. I don't know all I knows. I went there. No,
it's not all you know. Stop saying that. I gotta tell you,
Josh, I think both of us are totally baffled. After talking with both
you and your wife for the whole day, how two people like you end
up in a situation like this, And it's compounded by the fact that one
of you is trying to send the other one to prison for the rest of
their lives because you're telling totally different stories. After several hours of questioning,
the detectives had had enough of both Josh and Amelia. Both of them had
tried to implicate the other in this weird, deranged plot, but in the
end it didn't matter rightfully, So this married couple was booked and both of
them faced murder charges. And you know what I mean, here's the thing
you could you've painted because I said at this point, I really I don't
believe either of you. You've done nothing but lie to us since we've walked
in this door. I'm not trying to lie. I'm not trying. I'm
just I'm still happening by accident. My question really is, how is this?
How is this tying to me? I would ask back, how is
it not? But how your husband you've stole money from a from a guy
a woman and makes inquiries about it, and your husband murders both of them.
That's what you're telling us. How are you not? Neither one of
you were very nice people. I'll be honest with you, because both of
you stole from an elderly disabled veteran, which is a real crappy thing to
do, and then some people, two people get killed, and then neither
one of you were taking responsibility and pointing the finger at each other. I
mean, that is just awful. After Josh and Emilia were taken to jail,
Josh made several phone calls to his family. During these calls, he
seemed more than willing to cut all ties with his wife. I guess some
people don't take that hole till death do us part thing very seriously. It
seemed to be until my wife accuses me of murder. Yeah, I'm not
staying with her. This is it. I just got married with this divorce.
That's fine for her to find me and they do something like that to
me and try to throw me under the bus for something she did. Yeah,
they have me on uttering, forgery, forgery, fraud and personal fraud
use without consent victim of sixty like. I didn't do any of this.
All I did was deposit two checks for Amelia. Strangely, when josh talked
to his family, he only talked about the financial crimes. He never mentioned
the murder charges, perhaps due to shame he couldn't bring himself to tell them,
But his family eventually did learn about it by simply watching the news.
I see the charge has been uplifted to pledgury mort of it a firearm.
But it's all over the news and everything. Really, yeah, it's the
news. Twenty eight year old Joshua Ramsami and twenty five year old Amelia Bassoon
each a long list of charges at the top of that list is two counts
of first degree murder and also face charges in another case. Those charges include
theft, fraud, forgery, and exploitation of the elderly. Needless to say,
when Josh's family found out about the murder charges, they didn't take it
very well, and it was clear that the collateral damage and emotional pain that
he and his wife had caused was immense. Okay, don't hurt free,
yes, just look has to be. I don't want you to cry.
Just be strong. Just pray for me, okay, just pray for your
brothers. In listening to Josh's jailhouse phone calls, it's difficult to make sense
of the fact that Josh clearly came from a very loving and supportive family as
a young man. Is character and the way he treated others certainly needed a
lot of work, But Josh never comes across as a murder for money kind
of guy. At the very least, we know that he didn't come from
an environment or family that would encourage or excuse that kind of behavior. We're
all starting with you. Just hold on your face light all right, all
right, all right, thank you. We allowed being aware here for you.
Given that Josh had never been in any kind of trouble with the law
before. This was likely the case of terrible decision making caused by very bad
circumstances, namely Josh's marriage to Amelia. Of course, add marriage doesn't excuse
what Josh did. He's a grown ass man and responsible for the choices that
he makes, but it's probably safe to say that none of this would have
happened if Josh hadn't met and married Amelia. Unfortunately for him, Josh's circumstances
didn't matter. All that mattered was that two innocent people were gunned down in
their own home over a measly fifty grand and because of that, Josh was
on the hook for two counts of first degree murder. As for Amelia,
she was charged as a principal to first degree murder and amazingly was able to
bond out of jail while she awaited trial. But surprise, surprise, she
wasn't out for very long before she got arrested again. In April of twenty
twenty one, While out un bond, Amelia was picked up on the side
of a freeway and charged with assault after getting into a fight with a new
boyfriend. I was kidnap. Like, that's the problem that I'm having right
now that I'm so upset things you guys, you're arresting me. I ask
you multiple times if you ever did anything to him in every single time you
said you didn't. Well, I told you when we're in the cart,
you never said you started hitting him. I asked you multiple times, yeah,
and you said you didn't. I can I go talk to him.
He has bruising and scratches and everything all right here on the side of his
head, and hold on. He also has extensive bruising and stuff like that
on his chest, which makes no sense. You're going to jail. What
a prize? Never put your male genitalia in crazy fellas. Okay, now,
let's all just collectively take a deep breath for a second. Okay,
I'm gonna account to three. Just breathe in one two three, exhale one
two three. Why did we do that? Well, it's because you're about
to get pissed off and your blood pressure is gonna rise. You're ready,
you're ready to get mad? All right, here we go. Florida prosecutors
did not pursue murder charges against Amelia. But no, yeah, yeah,
yeah. The criminal justice system totally treats women and men the same. Amelia
agreed to work with prosecutors and testify against her now act's husband, Josh,
but she was still on the hook at least for the fraud and exploitation of
the elderly charges. So at least there's, you know, a silver lining
of sorts. Right, Should we do another breath? No? All right,
here we go. In July of twenty twenty one, Amelia was sentenced
to a grand total of three years in prison and is scheduled to be released
in twenty twenty four. Okay, all right, guys, check your blood
pressure. You don't want to get it out of control. Uh fuck this
place. I don't even want to be here anymore. As for Josh,
he was convicted of two counts of first degree murder and given thirty years in
prison. Total fairness, right, completely fair. Just go ahead and type
your comments in the show notes. Let us know what you think of this
whole debacle. It girls set me up for failure. Here broke, and
I should have knew it from the get go. Listen to my parents jail.
There is no denying that Josh and Amilia are terrible people at least they
were when they were arrested. The flaws in their characters and selfish natures are
a big part of why this all happened. Even if they had never met
and gotten married, they very well might have found themselves in some kind of
trouble. But maybe, and perhaps more than likely, had they not tied
the knot Cynthia's stack and her son Sean would still be alive. Marriage is
a complicated venture, and getting married is not something that should be taken lightly.
Yet oftentimes people getting married for reasons that don't always produce the best results.
Maybe it's to overcome loneliness, maybe it's to have kids, or maybe
it's to live up to some societal or religious expectation. Whatever, there are
reasons. Josh and Amilia were obviously lacking in many important qualities that are required
to make a marriage work. The two qualities that really stand out are devotion
and loyalty. In less than a year of being hitched, Josh and Amilia
had no loyalty or devotion for each other. If it meant saving their own
selfish ass, both of them were willing to send the other spouse to prison
for the rest of their life. Notably, This also meant that they were
both willing and actually hoping to pursue their own lives without the person they agreed
to stay with forever. The modern day institution of marriage is the result of
historical religious and cultural norms. Every day, more and more people are seeing
this institution as a bit outdated. But for those considering the traditional route,
and for those that might soon be saying those two powerful words I do,
it's probably best not to see them to someone simply because they can live with
you. Instead, if you decide to take the plunge, make sure it's
to someone that can't live without you. Otherwise you might find yourself in a
figurative prison, and if you're anything like Josh or Amelia, you might even
find yourself in an actual prison. Well that's going to do it. Hey.
By the way, we have an Instagram Premium which shows extra pictures of
crime scenes. Go to instagram dot com slash short scale to join for ninety
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starting in Over eighteen. I'm on Plus episode ninety heeds the clocket right,
my dude through the mad helping us with all that other stuff I literally stopped
let become all my own podcast against went correctly here for the a parent,
I fucking hate everybody else right here, and that's because of dude. So
think for has to be because a much under parent money. Sure true in
the world's service because nat damn every week, every day week. It's all
human, all right, they see my dude. But m m m m l