Inside the Shohei Ohtani Collectibles Market w/Brooks Peck + Jonathan Lucroy claps back at Kelce bros

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Brooks Peck is joining us right now. He writes for The Athletic and covers a topic that I think is super fascinating and we've been looking forward to chatting here. Senior editor for Sports Memorabilia and Collectibles at The Athletic, Brooks. Great to chat with you, and of course we're having you on to talk baseball and specifically starting with sho Hey Otani and the Dodgers graze with anything related to him out there. So how you doing and what are you seeing from your perspective in terms of anything that he touches or anything that has his nil turning into gold.

00:00:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty incredible. Thanks for having me, guys. But you know, usually in the collectibles world, it's in season is when things go crazy for a player, when they're active, when they're doing amazing things on the field or the court, and that's when you see their collectibles values go up or down if they're not doing as well. Otani had an unusual off season in that his all of his collectibles are men of his collectibles skyrocketed even when he was not playing. You know, yes, he had another World Series win, another MVP win last season, but it's really unusual to see a player's collectibles values go up so much in an off season for them, But that's what happened for show, and you know it continued into the WBC and now and to the start of the regular season. But it's really kind of anything and everything with his name on it is going crazy. One of his jerseys from the WBC, from the game that Japan versus Chinese type a game when he hit the Grand Slam. That jersey's sold on MLB auctions for one point five million dollars. It's not even you know, that wouldn't be in the top ten most important show. Hey Italian jerseys, you would list off, But you know everything's commenting in big prizes, even his collectible souvenir cups at Dodgers games.

00:01:55
Speaker 3: We're going to get to those souvenir cups. But when you talk about collectibles, I need to talk about the fact that these collectibles. You said, this is when the price is the highest, but people collect them. When's the next price jump? Like do people need to collect all this show? Hey stuff? Wait for him to become an envy I mean, wait for him to become a Hall of Famer, or is it the day he retires, when does it become when does it take the next jump for all these people right now who just have jump.

00:02:27
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I mean, you know, if it's kind of untired waters again to have a player go through an off season and have their values climbed so much during that downtime. So now at the start of a period where we should be seeing a rise for show, hey, we're kind of wondering what happens next. You know, It's it seems like his values can't get much higher than what they are at right now. But if he goes out and wins a cy Young this year, if he wins another MVP, another World Series, you never know. People are so excited about him, and his market is so huge. He's so unique in so many ways. But just the fact that his collectibles market is global, it's not just us obviously, it's not just Japan, it's it's all over the world. That helps so much. That puts him in such a different category from any other active baseball player. He's really kind of reached, starting to reach even like the Michael Jordan type level of just global superstardom and worldwide value that few ever reached.

00:03:30
Speaker 4: That was my question, is there have we ever seen anybody like this? Is there any I mean, listen, as somebody that knows that Michael Jordan's golf course. They used to sell the bags from the pro shop on eBay for like fifty bucks seventy five just for a bag that said the name of MJ's golf course. Have we ever seen anything like this in sport as far as collectibles go at that second, right, like now you know Griffy Rookie Carve the upper deck one, right, or the Mantal card or the Honus Wager. Now those are just relics from for a long time ago. But have we've ever seen somebody in the height of their career just explode on the memorabilia scene? And is it because show Hay doesn't sign a lot of stuff and there's not a lot of stuff out there with him.

00:04:11
Speaker 2: I mean, he does sign a lot. He's a deal with fanatics where he's signing a good number of cards and baseballs and jerseys and everything. So there is a decent supply of his stuff out there. It's just that, you know, the demand is so huge and so global that it's even bigger than what that considerable supply is But yeah, I mean, like I said, Jordan is really the closest comp at this point. And still Jordan is his own level, even above what show Hay has reached recently. The most searched athlete on eBay even today, every single month, the biggest collectible's marketplace in the world is Michael Jordan, every single month without fail, even twenty five years after he last played played basketball. So show he isn't quite at that level yet, but the fact that he's even as close as he is at this point, it's pretty remarkable because you know, he's far from done. He still has a lot more to do in the game and you know, a long way to go.

00:05:09
Speaker 4: A Brooks. You mentioned Michael Jordan, Well, then that would be my next question. Is it because he didn't sign anything for Cille Remember he would only sign Wilson basketballs, and he'd only sign certain things. So I have a Michael Jordan jersey hanging in my house. Should I sell that it's done up a gun or what?

00:05:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's another one. All of his stuff has gone up in value at an incredible rate last couple of years in particular, and you're right, he doesn't sign a ton He's an exclusive deal with Upper Deck, and upper Deck doesn't have the right to maket licensed NBA cars anymore. So his autographs are limited to basketballs and jerseys and you know, more more higher end things, so you don't see them as often and they're super valuable. As a result, you might want to sell it. Yeah, I would never.

00:05:54
Speaker 4: I would never.

00:05:55
Speaker 3: All right. When I first read the headline to your article that you wrote for the F it said Otani's cup is what I saw, I clearly just glanced over. I'm like, oh lord, that. But we're talking about a souvenir cup, not a protective cup that Otani wears to play. So the souvenir cup. Has there ever been I mean, this much of a story over a baseball souvenir cup.

00:06:24
Speaker 2: No, And you know, any any type of cup from Otani would be worth a ton of money, but this, this is definitely I think a first. You know you. Of course, souvenir soda cups have been around forever. You can go to any game in the country and find a souvenir souvenir soda cup. But what made this one unique beyond just being Otani was the price tag attached to it. It's cost originally cost seventy five dollars at Dodger Stadium. They just put it on sale for this season, and it got a lot of notice for that price tag because it's it sounds ridiculous on on on the surface. Now it came with free Refit refills the day of the game, so there was that element to it. But that's not worth seventy five dollars. But make it worth seventy five dollars is that it's Otani. Is the special limited edition cup. They're not making a ton of them apparently, and and and so it caught people's attention. You know, initially it was a lot of outrage because of that high price point. But then the team came back, i think on Saturday it was, and lowered the price by about six dollars and said you can get free refills for the entire season if you bring it back for each game. So that's kind of changed the value proposition at at the games. But what really made it valuable was it was Tani. So people started selling them on eBay and on the secondary market since it was an item that you could only get at games. People, you know, Otani fans from around the world couldn't get it. So it's been commanding huge prices on the secondary market people who just want that Otani cup, and it's now selling for north of tars apiece.

00:08:04
Speaker 3: For free sodas. I mean, that's that's legit. If you keep going to the Dodgers game, you're just gonna keep getting free sodas. But we talked earlier to Maximonci about the bobbleheads. Are the Dodgers missing a chance for even more money? If I would ever even utter those words, the fact that they give away these bobbleheads, the fact that they're doing this as a to me, it's still promotion. I get it. It's seventy dollars now for an Otani cup, but it's refillable, and it's like you could You're never gonna make your money back, but you could. If you're a regular Dodger, a tender, you could drink a lot of sodas with that for free. So is this something that the Dodgers are possibly like gonna change the game in the sense that they would start charging for these bobbleheads that are going on the market for fifteen hundred dollars in two hours after somebody gets it.

00:08:57
Speaker 2: I mean they could, but I think in the grand scheme of things, that wouldn't be enough of a revenue generator for them to make it worthwhile and to ruin that good will that those bobble giveaways bring them. I mean, they do more bobblehead giveaways per season than any other team in the majors. Dodgers fans in particular love bobbleheads, so they do a ton of those. They get a lot of people in the door for those. You know, last night they had the Yoshi bobblehead, the Nintendo character has a time to the new movie, and people were lined up for hours before the game to get a hold of one of them. Those are selling for more than tw hundred bucks apiece on secondary market now, so they generate a lot of a lot of interest. They get a lot of fans in the stadium. Not that they need any help with that these days, but it's just it generates a lot of good will. So I don't think they would they would mess with that, all.

00:09:47
Speaker 3: Right, Well, that is a perfect segue to my last question. Is the goodwill everybody goes whoa game used uniforms, all this stuff on MLB options. You know who's getting all that money? Uh?

00:10:02
Speaker 2: MLB. Sometimes it goes to charities. For the WBC auction you know, the team Italy auctioned off their espresso machine that was in the dugout and the funds from that went to a charity the team picked. So sometimes it's charity. But yeah, usually it goes to either the Players Association or or MLB itself. The teams.

00:10:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not the player not the Players Association. The game used, Game used memorabilia is almost a billion dollar game used. Major League Baseball memorabilia is almost a billion dollar industry. That team that fans think, oh well, it's probably goes to players and everything that is one Major League Baseball owned and they keep all of that. That is not when when they talk about revenue sharing and all this stuff and being open with the players, that is something that the team's pockets are getting lined. And it has become a major revenue stream four teams.

00:11:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's become such a big industry that I wouldn't be surprised if that becomes a bigger negotiation point in the future for the Plays Association. In the League. Like you said, it's just so much money generated by it now that it's it's huge. Yeah.

00:11:21
Speaker 4: And by the way, one time, I remember on Jackie Rumson Day when I was I took off my jersey and I handed it to a buddy of mine that was in the stands and the team I was playing for at the time, you would have thought I gave away the Holy Grail. I mean, it was unbelievable how mad they were. They're like, well, now we can't sell it. I'm like, sorry, I don't know where you're doing it. I don't know where it is, but they were so mad. But what I want to know, Brooks, is what's next. You're talking bobbleheads, souvenir cups, this that people were. Every team is trying figurines, every team is trying the Little Ducks, right, the Little Ducks were popular for a while. What's the next thing that's coming down the line for collectibles that people are just gonna have to get their hands on.

00:12:02
Speaker 2: I mean, the main thing will always be trading cards. That's the biggest piece of the pie in the collectibles world. You know, sports, even non sports, trading cards have become huge with Pokemon and all that stuff, But uh yeah, baseball cards will always be king in the sports, in the sports card world and in the sports collectibles world. So I think we'll probably see more and more tie ins with with baseball cards at at game days and and uh maybe even giveaways. But it begins with baseball cards.

00:12:35
Speaker 4: Well before I know, we gotta let you go. But I don't have my next question because you keep bringing up, so are we pricing kids out of baseball cards? With with sites that charge three hundred, four hundred, five hundred, one thousand dollars for one or two cards? Yeah, and listen, I I've been in on it. I bought some stuff. But you talk to some of the players. Bobby win is huge into collecting all his cards, right, Matt Strom is another guy. They want to all their cards. But even they're like, gosh, people want so much for one card. Are we pricing kids out of cards?

00:13:05
Speaker 3: Sorry?

00:13:06
Speaker 4: I know we're kind of off off here.

00:13:07
Speaker 2: No, it's a great question, and and you know, I think it's a big dilemma for the hobby as it grows, for the market as it grows, because there is a lot of demand for the high end cards. Everybody wants those one of ones, autographs, piece of the Jersey, kind of crazy cards, but they're really expensive, and if you include those in products, it makes the product more expensive because everybody wants to to buy it up and resell it and make a profit off it. You know, a lot of these companies do a good job of putting out products at different price points. And yes, the cheaper products don't have those super high end cards or the crazy valuable ones that everybody wants, but they're a good entry point for for kids and for new collectors. So I think they do a decent job of giving that variety and you know, both ends of the spectrum kind of thing. But yeah, I think going forward to that to do be a little bit more careful about not pricing peace pull out as more and more people get into it. Yeah.

00:14:02
Speaker 1: My only take on that part, though, is from someone who really loved collecting cards. When I was a kid, I wasn't doing it just being like, oh, I wonder how much money I can make. You know, sometimes I'd look and be like, cool, I picked this rookie, and now he's better and his card is tripled or quadrupled. But I almost look at it like a car, right your first car for most people should be something that you can just throw together and get you on the road and drive. But as you build up over time, maybe you save up and then you can drive something nicer. So if you're a collector, eventually later on you can go for that box or that pack that caused four x the more common ones. How's that analogy?

00:14:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's exactly right. You know, I think collecting is kind of a lost art. Everybody wants to make the quick box, the quick flip, but you know, having having cards, collectibles, just to have them and enjoy them is is kind of a lost art these days.

00:14:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:14:50
Speaker 4: No for me, Oh bro, you can't touch the cards because we have cards in our studio. It's got don't touch it. You're gonna they're gonna make it go from a ten to a nine point five, so don't. So you got have to put gloves on. That thing's got to go in the pouch and know, like, what are we doing here? You because I was in Target the other day and shut out and they had all these cars. I mean there was a row of cards. Every kind of cards you ever had, from you know, Pokemon to NFL to NBA, to MLB, to wrestling, to golf, to you name it, to the writers at the Athletic pack of cards, I think, but you know, I was like going down there and then I thought about it. I was like, man, I hope people still buy these in According to you, they do, so that's good for the longevity of the collecting world.

00:15:36
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's kind of more popular than ever in a lot of ways. You know, it picked back up during the pandemic, and it had a little lull a couple of years after that, but it's it's really back where where it was at that time and even higher now. And Oany's leading the way. You know, his stuff is really kind of help you and drive that.

00:15:53
Speaker 1: Brooks, thank you so much for the extended time. It's great to have you on. You can check out many many articles just like the common station we're having in the Athletic from Brooks, so please do that. Thanks for joining us.

00:16:05
Speaker 2: Thanks guys.

00:16:08
Speaker 1: Baseball the way it should be covered, perhaps battling football the way it should be covered. The Kelsey Bros On their New Heights podcasts talked about baseball and they don't really understand the conditioning. So this is Jerry de Philippo taking from their show, quote it makes no sense. Quote you should be running sprints or doing base running, not running foul pole to foul pole, saying stop treating baseball players like marathoners. And then we had a long, long reply.

00:16:38
Speaker 3: Was this from last year? Cretz did? We just thought I thought he talked about this. I thought he talked about this last year and that's why he quit baseball. He's like, we're going to run that much. But Donald Luke Broyce retweet was was good or quote tweet was good. It was a good response to what it was. Right.

00:16:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know when this was, but the topic, you know, happen anytime. I think it was from a recent show. And then Luke roy replied, but it's a long reply, but basically he was saying to the Kelsey Rose, you guys play every week. We play almost every day. Pitchers run polls to endure longer outings. Nolan Ryan did them every day he played twenty years, still throwing ninety five at forty. Position players run bases for conditioning in spring training during the season, we don't do much conditioning as an everyday player. Why because we play almost every day. He was talking about. Then you know, in this way, you guys can chime in too, hoo. Many squats he did over the course of a season, twenty four thousand plus from squatting and then warm ups during the game, the whole deal. So he just explained how much of a difference there is and said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Aha, your thoughts.

00:17:42
Speaker 4: I don't question football players conditioning, So I don't know why two football players are questioning baseball players conditioning. And the reason pitchers run polls is because they need endurance in order to go into the sixth and seventh inning. That's why. And as far as running sprints as a position player, and a lot of sprints as a position player, I'm sure you did too, Eric. We also ran bases in spring training. Now during the season, do we run sprints? No, because we're running during the game. And if you're playing every day, you can't afford to run a million sprints a game. If I played once a week, and Eric, you can speak on this plane, you know not every day. You might run more than I do. But as a guy that played six, five, six, seven days a week, I didn't run a lot of sprints. I ran a couple to get loose and that was it. But I still worked out. I still did my stuff. And the reason starting starting pitchers, by the way run poles is for the endurance factor of being able to go six seven ins. Because when you talk to starters, you know what they say, Oh man, my legs go first. How do I get my aerobics and my legs to stay strong by running right? Adam wayn Wright, who I work with on Fox all the time, you know what he did once he ran poles for conditioning. He ran long for a flush after they pitched that one day a week, that once every fifth day they did a wrong run for flush to get the blood different blood in their body. You know what he started doing once he got a little bit older. He called him old Man Walks and he'd walk all around the stadium and walk for miles right to get the blood flowing to flush. It's a different sport. I don't tell I don't tell football players how to lift and why they do bench presses, and why they do this and they do that, and they do the seven cone drill and all the stuff you see at the combine. It's a different sport. Listen, Kelsey Rills. You guys have a great podcast. Do you guys have your own thing, but stay out of things you don't know about, which is baseball. Baseball is a different conditioning than basketball, different than hockey, different than football, different than tennis, different than soccer. It's a different thing.

00:19:36
Speaker 3: And there's so much we know. We know so much about conditioning. To me, conditioning for baseball you have to look to guys who stayed healthy and played every single day. So whatever Aj Prazinski did, you need to ask him. Yes, I get it. There's science, there's different things. He you know, he came up through the time when shoot, early two thousands, not even every team, Aj said, But not every team had a weight room. Now every team has a visiting weight room that has to be held to a certain standard. So we learn new things about recovery, about what it takes to get ready for an entire season. But there's no better advice that you can follow than somebody that has done it. And if somebody like Nolan Ryan lasted throw a mid nineties till he was forty whatever seven years old, to me, there's some value in what he did. There's value in all that stuff. But it's really just based on what it takes for you to get out there and play healthy for an entire one hundred and sixty two games. For me, I was a bench player, and so I had to play once. I would say I played once every six days in my career. So those other five days were actually harder days than the days that I would play in the game, because I would catch two two ish bullpens a starter and maybe just a little touch and feel by a reliever just so that I could stay catching the guys that are on my team. Then I had to run six to eight sprints because probably in the game, I'm gonna run about six to eight sprints, whether it's backing up first base, whether it's I actually got a hit which didn't happen a lot, so I saved my legs. But there's a lot of things that you have to do to get ready for this season, just like football players have to be their biggest, strongest, fastest, and then they have to spend six days to recover from all the car wrecks that happened on every single one of their plays. So it is totally different, but we are learning so much more that it's not just old school. It's not just new school, asked the guys that stayed healthy and played for a long time.

00:21:41
Speaker 1: Booming.

00:21:42
Speaker 4: And everybody's different. Everybody, not everybody, well everybody, and everybody is different. I also want to say that every everybody did I worked out every day, Okay, I worked out of some some facet some sort of way every day. And then there were guys that didn't work out of you, they worked out once or twice a week. That's fine, needed to work out every day. It's everybody is different. Everybody is different, and everybody is different.