A Deep Dive Into Coyote Bush

<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the crime payers a bond he doesn't podcast Today,
<v Speaker 1>I've got a researcher on the podcast who specializes in
<v Speaker 1>the genus back Arrist. That is the genus of coyote bushes,
<v Speaker 1>at least as their colloquially known in California. Or I think, Uh,
<v Speaker 1>the stupid name poverty weed here in Texas, one of
<v Speaker 1>many stupid common names uh from you know that are
<v Speaker 1>that are used in Texas botany and uh, no offense
<v Speaker 1>to anybody who uses them. Just learn the fucking genus
<v Speaker 1>back rist for Christ six and uh and then what
<v Speaker 1>is it? What's the what's the eastern one called back
<v Speaker 1>arris halimafolia. I don't know either way. This is the
<v Speaker 1>genus I've seen all over the world, well all over
<v Speaker 1>the western side of the Atlantic, North and South America.
<v Speaker 1>I've seen it in Dominican Republic, Brazil, Chile, high altitude
<v Speaker 1>Chile up there on the out the planel and he
<v Speaker 1>out the plane all as you might say, if you're
<v Speaker 1>you know, uh, if you never leave the United States. Uh,
<v Speaker 1>fucking they're common in California. Back Ross pillolarius Bacris sarathroides.
<v Speaker 1>Down there in northern Baja Mexico and the deserts of
<v Speaker 1>southern California. This is a very ecologically successful co Mostly
<v Speaker 1>these genus of plants in the sunflower family, almost all
<v Speaker 1>of them are dioecious, just like cannabis. They're either male
<v Speaker 1>or female. We talk about that others. I think the
<v Speaker 1>exception is two or three species. One is monoecious, one's gynodioecious.
<v Speaker 1>I think one might be bisexual aka hermaphroditic and flower.
<v Speaker 1>Either way, this is everywhere. Back Rous neglect is really
<v Speaker 1>common in Texas. I see it, you know, recolonizing places
<v Speaker 1>that have been bulldozed or flattened by people, you know,
<v Speaker 1>by humans. And then the great thing about it, what
<v Speaker 1>makes it so ecologically important, is primarily that it's just
<v Speaker 1>a fucking huge building, a huge green building for pollinators.
<v Speaker 1>It's like a huge green face just lit up in
<v Speaker 1>thousands of tiny flowers and each producing tons of nectar.
<v Speaker 1>You'll see tons of I remember I saw backrist I
<v Speaker 1>think it was neglecta in Fort Worth once, near one
<v Speaker 1>of their the reservoirs they have near the dam, and
<v Speaker 1>there was just like a forest of them, and it
<v Speaker 1>was lit up with americansnout butterflies and cool native wasps.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, they're so they're so rich with life in
<v Speaker 1>late summer and early fall when they're going off, and
<v Speaker 1>that is one of the reasons that I fell in
<v Speaker 1>love with this genus. And then when you see some
<v Speaker 1>of the winged baccarrist species down in South America, like
<v Speaker 1>Trimera et cetera, you know, you kind of it just
<v Speaker 1>blows your mind even more, the many variations on a
<v Speaker 1>theme that you already know, which is part of what
<v Speaker 1>makes biology and botany especially so fucking fun. So anyway,
<v Speaker 1>Gustavoheyden studies bacharrists in Rio grande O Soul, the state
<v Speaker 1>of Real grand Ol Soul in southern Brazil. Brazil, as
<v Speaker 1>some of you may know, is a hot spot of
<v Speaker 1>astor ac diversity. The sunflower family, Okay, we think of
<v Speaker 1>this family in North America. It's a lot of dyc's boring,
<v Speaker 1>not to me, but boring yellow flowers. I could understand.
<v Speaker 1>I can sympathize with people who think they're boring. You
<v Speaker 1>gotta look at those fieries. Don't just look at the
<v Speaker 1>flower head on because they all just look like little
<v Speaker 1>yellow daisies. You gotta look at the sides of the
<v Speaker 1>flower head, look at the morpholegy. Ito's involucral breaks. But
<v Speaker 1>when you get to South America, when you get to
<v Speaker 1>places like South Africa, there's wild shit. There are endless
<v Speaker 1>forms most beautiful on the theme of this family. There's trees,
<v Speaker 1>there's aquatics, I mean, there's some there's plants. There's a
<v Speaker 1>coyote bush that grows directly out of salt. Looks like
<v Speaker 1>a little green carpet of little rosette leaves that grows
<v Speaker 1>out of fucking literally chunks of salt, because you get
<v Speaker 1>a lot of salt in the out of common desert.
<v Speaker 1>So that's what we talk about. And but we're talking
<v Speaker 1>about just the diversity of this genus. I think there's
<v Speaker 1>like five hundred species, four hundred and forty accepted names
<v Speaker 1>on Plants of the World online. Maybe there's probably seventy
<v Speaker 1>or eighty species that have been collected, but now you
<v Speaker 1>have formally described, and there's probably a bunch more that
<v Speaker 1>have not been formally described. So if you don't know
<v Speaker 1>about this genus, you should. They're everywhere if you live
<v Speaker 1>in the United States, unless you're up in like fucking
<v Speaker 1>North Dakota. I don't think there's any There may not
<v Speaker 1>be any back Rists in North Dakota. Back Rists may
<v Speaker 1>have left North Dakota alone, and it can be forgiven
<v Speaker 1>for doing that. Anyway, enjoy and don't think about that
<v Speaker 1>as fucking horrible election going on today. I mean, also,
<v Speaker 1>be your nice escape unless you're listening to it after
<v Speaker 1>and you already got the news, which hopefully isn't too
<v Speaker 1>isn't too painful. Ah Jesus Christ, I'm already looking for
<v Speaker 1>the fire escape figuratively speaking. Okay, enjoyed this, have a
<v Speaker 1>gress your day and go fuck yourself by. There we go.
<v Speaker 1>Now we're recall, Okay, welcome to the crime pays, but
<v Speaker 1>Bodany doesn't podcast. It's here at selection day in the
<v Speaker 1>United States. The companies are very pleased. They're very very
<v Speaker 1>pleased because no matter who you vote for, they're gonna
<v Speaker 1>get their way no matter what. Obviously anyway where that's
<v Speaker 1>All'm gonna fucking say. I don't even tell you anyway.
<v Speaker 1>I'm here with a researcher, GUSTAVO. Heyden. Are you a doctor?
<v Speaker 1>Are you doctor? Or you got PhD? Right? Not that
<v Speaker 1>I give a shit. Some people get offended. If you
<v Speaker 1>don't say doctor, I'll call you doctor Heiden. All right,
<v Speaker 1>doctor Gustavo Heyden, who is a researcher who studies. He's
<v Speaker 1>a botanist and a researcher who studies. The genus backeris,
<v Speaker 1>which anybody who doesn't know. If you don't know what
<v Speaker 1>this genus is, shame on you. Unless you're like in
<v Speaker 1>the higher latitude in the United States, then you can
<v Speaker 1>be forgiven. But if you don't know this genus and
<v Speaker 1>you live in the lower latitudes or anywhere than shame
<v Speaker 1>on you. Shame on you, because this is a fucking
<v Speaker 1>cool genus. It's a very ruteral species. It's a quote
<v Speaker 1>weedy native. You got back ress halimafolia in the East Coast.
<v Speaker 1>I saw growing on the fucking uh salty Uh what
<v Speaker 1>was the what was the Newtown Creek in Queens all
<v Speaker 1>the way up into Massachusetts. I think it goes you
<v Speaker 1>got back rest pilliolaris in California, and you got a
<v Speaker 1>ton of back wrists in the deserts So uh. Anyway, Gristavoheyden,
<v Speaker 1>tell us where you're coming from. Where are you right now.
<v Speaker 2>Joey, I'm from Brazil. I am a biologist with a
<v Speaker 2>master and a PhD degree in botany. Uh, I'm not
<v Speaker 2>offended if someone doesn't call me doctor, they call me
<v Speaker 2>by my name. Yeah. Yeah, and I and I understand
<v Speaker 2>your perplexity about the uvulations. I think every every person
<v Speaker 2>is perfect about it. And it's that kind of the
<v Speaker 2>illusion illusion of choice when you have to choose between
<v Speaker 2>between two oceans, that that both of them maybe are
<v Speaker 2>not the ocean that you would like to have. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>so thinks are exactly the same here the other side
<v Speaker 2>of them.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know, Yeah, man, I've heard. I mean, the
<v Speaker 1>political ship is nuts. I feel like everyone's just being
<v Speaker 1>manipulated by algorithms, algorithms and social media. It's just it's
<v Speaker 1>so turned up in nuts, man. But either way, I
<v Speaker 1>still wish I was in Brazil at this very second,
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to hear I love man. The biology and
<v Speaker 1>diversity you guys have, especially with plants is incredible. So
<v Speaker 1>okay and so sp But we're here to talk about
<v Speaker 1>back Rist, so we'll focus on back Ris. Course. What
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I want to talk about all South American
<v Speaker 1>astorracy that you have any experience with, but back Arrist,
<v Speaker 1>I mean I saw Backris species when I was in
<v Speaker 1>the Atlantic Forest of Rio, or when I was in
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't think I saw it in Minus
<v Speaker 1>too much, but it's certainly in the Atlantic Forest. I
<v Speaker 1>saw some wild stuff down there. Tell me about this genus.
<v Speaker 1>Tell everybody about this genus and how you got so
<v Speaker 1>amped on it? What made you uh so excited about
<v Speaker 1>it that you want to study it.
<v Speaker 2>So I am a biologist with a master and a
<v Speaker 2>pH d in botany. But a long time before I
<v Speaker 2>even knew that bocany or biology or a career to follow,
<v Speaker 2>I was born in love with plants. So I lived
<v Speaker 2>in the countryside, in an area in the Pampus, in
<v Speaker 2>the border of Gradudusud that's my state in Brazil and Uruguay.
<v Speaker 2>And that region has the like the like the southwestern
<v Speaker 2>USA or even some parts of the eastern USA. We
<v Speaker 2>have many grasslands with lots of packeries there, and as
<v Speaker 2>a child, playing with my friends in the grass, I
<v Speaker 2>was always curious about the plant, and especially curious about
<v Speaker 2>a plant that's called here in my region Carcaasia. You
<v Speaker 2>a c A c A r q u e j
<v Speaker 2>a Caucasia. In fact, in fact, the original Carcasia is
<v Speaker 2>from the Iberian Peninsula in Europe. It's a legume from Europe,
<v Speaker 2>from Spain and Portugal, and it's a plant with the
<v Speaker 2>winged stamps. So we have several species of baccaries that
<v Speaker 2>have winged stems too. So when I was a child
<v Speaker 2>play in the in the grasslands with my friends, I
<v Speaker 2>was always curious about that plants that are shrubs leafless
<v Speaker 2>and their stems are winged. They have three, two, three
<v Speaker 2>or even five wings in the stem and most of
<v Speaker 2>their pototo syntactic photo cities occurs in these wings. So
<v Speaker 2>I was I was always curious about them. And some
<v Speaker 2>people that come to South America even say that all
<v Speaker 2>these these are cactili like bacts. I would not say
<v Speaker 2>coct like exactly because they are not sucolant, but if
<v Speaker 2>you if you look from a certain distans, it sometimes
<v Speaker 2>really look like cocta.
<v Speaker 1>Like what was really really quick? Really quick? Was this
<v Speaker 1>back risk Trimera or what species?
<v Speaker 2>Yes? Yes, but baka is Trimera and their relatives. Because
<v Speaker 2>there are about forty species of pakas belonging to two
<v Speaker 2>sections that have winged stamps. Wow, so this oneaka Trimera
<v Speaker 2>is the most common one. And because It's found mostly
<v Speaker 2>everywhere in southern South America. And because it has this
<v Speaker 2>common name Caucasia, because it's a plant, use it for
<v Speaker 2>as a medicine. Yes, or drink it too.
<v Speaker 1>I forgot, sorry, I forgot about that. I want we'll
<v Speaker 1>have to ask that I'm taking notes over here because
<v Speaker 1>I forgot, but really quickly, and pardon, I told you.
<v Speaker 1>I interrupt a lot. It's just my fucking ad d.
<v Speaker 1>I can't you know, forgive me. But this is such
<v Speaker 1>a cool plant for anybody who's who's not familiar with
<v Speaker 1>their back risk trimera. It's got the wing stems. And
<v Speaker 1>I first saw it, I think in a botanic garden here,
<v Speaker 1>and then when I was in Brazil it was everywhere.
<v Speaker 1>But this this wing stem and what is it? What
<v Speaker 1>is the adaptive benefit of that just increases photosynthetic area
<v Speaker 1>while maintaining well, not having to worry about losing moisture
<v Speaker 1>or what do you? What do you think?
<v Speaker 2>So it's a it's a very intriguing question because in
<v Speaker 2>these plants like black Stroma, we found them, we find
<v Speaker 2>them growing on mostly more dry, dryer areas. But when
<v Speaker 2>when I was curios about these plants, I got to
<v Speaker 2>the biology graduate course and decided to and was still
<v Speaker 2>asking myself why these plants have this this look and
<v Speaker 2>start trying to study the psychogenetics of them. I quickly
<v Speaker 2>gave up off the side to genetics because it was
<v Speaker 2>kind of boring. The chromosomes were really, really small. But
<v Speaker 2>I fell in love with taxonomy because I collected examples
<v Speaker 2>of this carcasi at this back astrain era, and quickly
<v Speaker 2>I realized that I was not dealing with one species,
<v Speaker 2>that I was dealing with more than one. And when
<v Speaker 2>I was looking for the available taxonomy reviews, I was
<v Speaker 2>completely surprised that there were more than fifteen species described.
<v Speaker 2>So this yes, So this kept kept me very interested,
<v Speaker 2>very intriggued about it. And as much I was studying
<v Speaker 2>these plants, I was realizing that there were even more
<v Speaker 2>outside Brazil, and some of them were only know by one,
<v Speaker 2>two or three just a felical actions. So I started
<v Speaker 2>doing studying backers based on these plants because I was
<v Speaker 2>trying to answer your last question, why these plants have
<v Speaker 2>this winged stems while all the other backeries have like
<v Speaker 2>to leave in stems most of them, and this uh,
<v Speaker 2>this group of winged backeries, they have these winged stems.
<v Speaker 2>So I did my masters still on taxonomy and study
<v Speaker 2>the backeries from Hugenia State in eastern Brazil. And after that,
<v Speaker 2>when I was planning my pH D, I finally could
<v Speaker 2>get to the molecular data to DNA sicknessing and and
<v Speaker 2>did I hear it something in the genus for the
<v Speaker 2>genus to to reconstruct the phylogenetics of the revolution of
<v Speaker 2>the genus. And I was always really sure that all
<v Speaker 2>carcases or winged backeries belong have a single ancestor single
<v Speaker 2>common ancestor. Uh. Then one day my advisory professor Perni
<v Speaker 2>from the BI Sam Pauli, just a few days before
<v Speaker 2>I run the phylogenetical reconstruction, has had have you he asked?
<v Speaker 2>He asked me, have you ever thought about if the
<v Speaker 2>winged backers are not monophyletic? And I looked at him
<v Speaker 2>to him like, oh, no, it's obvious they are monophyletic.
<v Speaker 2>Then after that, after the results, I realized that they,
<v Speaker 2>in fact they are not monophyletic.
<v Speaker 1>So the wing stems, the wing stems in other words,
<v Speaker 1>quite likely evolved independently numerous times.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, more than more than ones. And and then I
<v Speaker 2>could realize after the phylogenetical results that these winged species
<v Speaker 2>were placed in two distinct clades, and in both clades
<v Speaker 2>it's like the the evolutionary history was quite the same.
<v Speaker 2>In the beginning, I thought that the winged stems were
<v Speaker 2>an adaptation to save water, because the the plants that
<v Speaker 2>are leafless and have wingeds in grow growing dry areas.
<v Speaker 2>They they are very resinos. They they have a thick
<v Speaker 2>covering of like a raisin to avoid wax.
<v Speaker 1>Are they like waxy? Huh?
<v Speaker 2>Yes? What, Yeah, that's right. And but then when I
<v Speaker 2>start knowing the other species, I found that, like the
<v Speaker 2>first the virgin lineages, in both clades, they were from
<v Speaker 2>the edge of cloth forests in eastern Brazil. They were Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>they were like shrubs with leaves well developed and the
<v Speaker 2>wings were really narrow. And then there was like a
<v Speaker 2>tendency to some species to colonize very wet areas like
<v Speaker 2>bogs and swamps. Yeah, and in these species they kept
<v Speaker 2>the winged stem together with the developed leaves. So I
<v Speaker 2>was wondering if they have gone that to increase their
<v Speaker 2>evapple transpiration because they had more surface for water exchange.
<v Speaker 1>So they're trying to increase it's possible that the wing
<v Speaker 1>stems might be a way for them to increase the
<v Speaker 1>amount of water that can get pumped up, and so
<v Speaker 1>they're not just sitting in water, you know.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, that was my my hypothesis. And after after
<v Speaker 2>I could see across the evolutionary three of the both
<v Speaker 2>sections that have winged stems that there were there was
<v Speaker 2>a tendency to them to go out after the swamp
<v Speaker 2>wet areas to conquer open brassy areas that were much dryer.
<v Speaker 2>And if we think of water bodies, a lot of
<v Speaker 2>them they have like a strong seasonality. So these lens
<v Speaker 2>were had some selection to pressure them to live, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>at the same time in wet places, but these places
<v Speaker 2>could get very dry, and these have been like this
<v Speaker 2>was like a driver. They have increased the especiation in
<v Speaker 2>both sections.
<v Speaker 1>Ephemeral like ephemeral like wetlands that dry up and get Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>we get those a lot in Texas too, Like they'll
<v Speaker 1>be inundated with water for a few months, but then
<v Speaker 1>they'll be bone dry for a few months too. So
<v Speaker 1>you've got to be able to deal with both conditions.
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. So after they got these wings develop, it it
<v Speaker 2>was just a few steps to them to get out
<v Speaker 2>of the box and start spreading through the as. And
<v Speaker 2>then after colonizing the grassland bay, they start losing their leaves.
<v Speaker 2>The leaves started to get in and every time more
<v Speaker 2>smaller and reduce it at a point that some species
<v Speaker 2>are when they're completely leafless. And one extreme case is
<v Speaker 2>ba is all from the Sahara domain in Brazil.
<v Speaker 1>Sorry I say it against What is it? How do
<v Speaker 1>you spell it?
<v Speaker 2>Yes?
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yes, yes, it's one of these brooms.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, in the Sahada Amina, San Paolo and other
<v Speaker 2>Brazilian states. It's it's it looks it looks like is
<v Speaker 2>saratroigs bon si version with no leaves and the wings.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, damn that's cool man. This this the back rists
<v Speaker 1>I saw in Brazil were blowing my mind. I just
<v Speaker 1>I mean, going down there. That's what I love about
<v Speaker 1>South America so much, is because you see genera that
<v Speaker 1>you're familiar with in North America, but you just see
<v Speaker 1>the wildest variations on them, like you didn't even know
<v Speaker 1>that this could be done with this genus, you know.
<v Speaker 1>And that's the cool thing about not having a huge
<v Speaker 1>ocean separating the two continents. There's all They've been close
<v Speaker 1>enough that there's always been you know, flow of genera
<v Speaker 1>and families between. But but you know, in Texas, I've
<v Speaker 1>noticed that I've never thought about the duality of growing
<v Speaker 1>in wetlands and then also being able to grow in
<v Speaker 1>shitty dry areas. You know, by shitty, I just mean
<v Speaker 1>stressful for a plant. But that's a lot of what
<v Speaker 1>we get in Texas too, because we'll get you know,
<v Speaker 1>we get back risk neglecta. I mean, that's one of
<v Speaker 1>the first plant species to recolonize an area that's been bulldozed.
<v Speaker 1>And there's been a lot of bulldozing in Texas lately,
<v Speaker 1>especially in like the Austin area. And I remember seeing
<v Speaker 1>fields of back wrists and neglect that which most people
<v Speaker 1>pass by and just don't even realize how ecologically important is.
<v Speaker 1>They just see that it's a weed. But then you know,
<v Speaker 1>when you see it in late summer early fall covered
<v Speaker 1>in butterflies, You're like, man, this thing is feeding so
<v Speaker 1>much life. Are all the back rists? Are they all
<v Speaker 1>insects pollinated? Or are any of them wind pollinated? Or what.
<v Speaker 2>They have? Like they are in buffios, they are pollinated
<v Speaker 2>by wind and by insects, so we can see lots
<v Speaker 2>of insects around them. Every everywhere I have gone to
<v Speaker 2>collecting bakries, even in the higher points of the Andes,
<v Speaker 2>I have seen insects, even flies visiting the flowers of
<v Speaker 2>pockets flies and butterflies.
<v Speaker 1>There's nectar like they're producing sugar in there.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and this is very interesting because at least several
<v Speaker 2>species some species of pokris, they flowers mostly in the spring,
<v Speaker 2>and another group in the autumn, and the ones that
<v Speaker 2>are early spring flowers, they like provide food for many insects,
<v Speaker 2>at least here in south of Brazil when no other
<v Speaker 2>sarce is available, and the same in the autumn in
<v Speaker 2>the fall when a lot of them keeps flowering to
<v Speaker 2>the beginning of winter, and they provide energy to many insects. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>so it's very very it's a very important genus for
<v Speaker 2>ecologically speaking.
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like it sounds like one would gather that
<v Speaker 1>this is something that's worth keeping around and not just
<v Speaker 1>bulldozing because you think it's a weed, which you probably
<v Speaker 1>don't have to worry about too much where you are,
<v Speaker 1>but where I am, it's super common. I'm grateful because
<v Speaker 1>they will establish these many forests like packers neglect, and
<v Speaker 1>I forget what other some of the dominant speed she's
<v Speaker 1>we get in Texas. I think Sarah Throid's Salasina righty eye,
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. But neglect is the biggest one. And it'll
<v Speaker 1>just it'll set up these well, there's even a back
<v Speaker 1>ers taxing, I know, ship it'll just set up these,
<v Speaker 1>you know, it'll set up these these like many forests,
<v Speaker 1>and just and it'll it'll grow so quick, like one
<v Speaker 1>showed up in my yard and I let it ride
<v Speaker 1>for a while. I got eight feet tall, et cetera.
<v Speaker 1>But uh, but that's the other thing too, is the
<v Speaker 1>dispersal of these things. I mean, most are wind dispersed
<v Speaker 1>if you get a female plant, because most are dioecious.
<v Speaker 1>The seeds, like tell me about the seeds, Like the
<v Speaker 1>seeds are just super tiny and one plant will produce
<v Speaker 1>how many seeds.
<v Speaker 2>I have no idea about how many seeds, but I'm
<v Speaker 2>sure that fans of thousands, depending on the species. Most
<v Speaker 2>of most of them are wind dispersed. But there are
<v Speaker 2>a few subgenera where the tops it's the seeds after
<v Speaker 2>the fruit. The Cisela is fully developed the puputly detached
<v Speaker 2>from the fruit and does not fly that longer as
<v Speaker 2>you would expect most of the species of the genus,
<v Speaker 2>But when you consider the majority of them, they are winded,
<v Speaker 2>passed and can fly kilometers far from the source plan
<v Speaker 2>But talking about insects, that are other things really interesting
<v Speaker 2>too about the interaction of the genus. For example, we
<v Speaker 2>always realize what we always that the first impression we
<v Speaker 2>have is about the pollinators that we look around the
<v Speaker 2>capitula the flowers, but there are also the galling insects.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've seen some coyote bus.
<v Speaker 2>If you google backaries and goals, it's like another hidden
<v Speaker 2>universe of research. There are lots of people who work
<v Speaker 2>on the ecology of calls in bakerries and they recently
<v Speaker 2>I have seen some like a butterfly species that feed
<v Speaker 2>and baker is too, specifically some groups of butterflies that
<v Speaker 2>feed on bakries. But there are many many gall insects
<v Speaker 2>that in fact specialized in gallic bakker Is species, and
<v Speaker 2>there are some species specific relationships. Most of the research
<v Speaker 2>on gals in bokers, as far as I remember, are
<v Speaker 2>being gon in California and Minno genies and people people
<v Speaker 2>from the ecology get crazy about the galls of bakers. Look,
<v Speaker 2>they are always getting surprised about that behavior.
<v Speaker 1>I would imagine most of them. I would imagine most
<v Speaker 1>hold that thought sorry once, I would imagine most of
<v Speaker 1>the galls on back risks, like the insects are specifists,
<v Speaker 1>probably because these are really like chemically rich plants. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>they've got a lot of probably toxic chemicals, at least
<v Speaker 1>toxic to insects. So once you evolve an adaptation to
<v Speaker 1>back rist you're probably.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm really I'm sious to find a collaborator partner
<v Speaker 2>to see how how the evolution of the gallic insects
<v Speaker 2>matches or not the evolution and diversification of some plains
<v Speaker 2>of packeties, because we can, as far as I have
<v Speaker 2>my field work conservations. The sub genus Packeries that's the
<v Speaker 2>one where baccar Is alimiphoria is placed, is basically half
<v Speaker 2>the genus and most of the goals are found in
<v Speaker 2>this subgenus too. One more, very one more, very interesting
<v Speaker 2>think about insects and backeres is the properties there, the
<v Speaker 2>green properties. Have you heard about it? Now?
<v Speaker 1>What is this?
<v Speaker 2>So? During during a long time in Brazil people were
<v Speaker 2>relying on a type of properties called green properties, but
<v Speaker 2>no one knew where which which plant was the source
<v Speaker 2>of this properties green.
<v Speaker 1>Tell everybody what propoly is is. This isn't made by
<v Speaker 1>bees or what?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's made by bees. And they use the
<v Speaker 2>properties to in the construction of the combs, is.
<v Speaker 1>It right, the dombs, yeah, the honeycombs.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, honey combs. And they use these properties to because
<v Speaker 2>to like like to to seal some some or if
<v Speaker 2>it is to to cover some areas, to protect against
<v Speaker 2>other insects, to avoid funai too, to keep to keep
<v Speaker 2>the health of the colony. And and after you get
<v Speaker 2>the honey, you get the propolies. So this green properly,
<v Speaker 2>it's as the name say, it's green. And no one
<v Speaker 2>knew from the stars until the beach over that's from
<v Speaker 2>Backer is dragging California. And and a lot of pharmaceutical
<v Speaker 2>research is done on these green propolies. And every every
<v Speaker 2>every week I received a lot of Google alects about
<v Speaker 2>new research and green properlies and their potential to like
<v Speaker 2>antibiotics or antioxidants even to fight cancer. And Brazil impact
<v Speaker 2>export a lot of green pad propolies to Japan, for example,
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of the research on green properties is
<v Speaker 2>doing in Japan too because of this very high potential
<v Speaker 2>they have and the bees. They go to the backeries
<v Speaker 2>rock and qulifoida plants to collect and acted, but also
<v Speaker 2>to collect the walks. And besides the walks, they collect
<v Speaker 2>the tip of the style arms of the family.
<v Speaker 1>They collect the style.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the collective style tipe. And this is used as
<v Speaker 2>one of the main ingredients of the green property.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I see it here, Okay. Green propolist is a
<v Speaker 1>natural product that comes from the back risk the tracuncular
<v Speaker 1>Folia plant native to presil So this is but there's
<v Speaker 1>not I mean, these are European honey bees. These weren't.
<v Speaker 1>No native bees obviously do this, but it was still
<v Speaker 1>something that the European honeybees because they I mean they
<v Speaker 1>just collect propolists. They create propo lists from plants that
<v Speaker 1>they collect. But when they were hitting this one plant,
<v Speaker 1>because of it's phyto chemistry, there was I guess a
<v Speaker 1>lot of benefits. That's that's wild man. So what's what's
<v Speaker 1>up with the chemist the fyto chemistry of of back risk.
<v Speaker 2>Well, the phytochemistry. I have been collaborating with people from
<v Speaker 2>the chemistry area, and and I am not really good
<v Speaker 2>at chemistry, but what I can say about the chemistry
<v Speaker 2>of them is that for carcasia, for example, they have
<v Speaker 2>that's the main compound that has these benefits for health
<v Speaker 2>and for the digestive organs and the fighto chemistry. It's
<v Speaker 2>very interesting because I did a collaboration with another pH
<v Speaker 2>d from the pharmacy faculty of Universialities and Powell, and
<v Speaker 2>she studied the metabolomics of all back species that I
<v Speaker 2>have sample for the phylogenetics, and she could find for
<v Speaker 2>some groups that I did not have clear morphological characteristics
<v Speaker 2>to circumscribe them to recognize them, but that that groups
<v Speaker 2>were really for the work over our plads with one
<v Speaker 2>hundred one hundred percent comfort ability. I could not find
<v Speaker 2>some morphological traits. I still could not find to define them.
<v Speaker 2>But this this other PhD student, she found several chemicals
<v Speaker 2>that are related to some groups and are in other
<v Speaker 2>plades of faculties. So certainly the chemistry is a very
<v Speaker 2>important rule in the diversification of some groups. Like I
<v Speaker 2>would say like key innovations, but that that is something
<v Speaker 2>that should be tested. But yeah, when you see it
<v Speaker 2>in the Phylogenetica tree, it's very very clear.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, phyto chemistry is key innovations. Man, that's the cool
<v Speaker 1>I mean that alone is an ast racy is so
<v Speaker 1>good at that because I mean you could, I mean
<v Speaker 1>you can see it when you see these things thriving,
<v Speaker 1>like like in areas here in Texas where there's there's
<v Speaker 1>tons of deer, but there's back rists everywhere. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>the deer aren't eating it, and you figure there's something
<v Speaker 1>in those leaves that obviously the deer hate bitter compounds.
<v Speaker 1>I mean a lot of astracy of course, uh, you
<v Speaker 1>know produced sessketerpene, lactones and that kind of thing. But
<v Speaker 1>but I've heard, you know, and I've heard a lot
<v Speaker 1>of the South American species of back risk too are
<v Speaker 1>have been used in you know, herbal medicine for you know,
<v Speaker 1>hundreds thousands of years. Going back really quick, when you
<v Speaker 1>recovered fifteen different species out of what you primarily thought
<v Speaker 1>was or what you initially thought was one species, could
<v Speaker 1>you tell, I mean morphologically did they look kind of
<v Speaker 1>off from each other or did the DNA just kind
<v Speaker 1>of recover them as cryptic species or what.
<v Speaker 2>So after starting the taxonomic review of the winged species,
<v Speaker 2>now from about fifteen twenty species, now in fact we
<v Speaker 2>have more than forty species. One reason is that because
<v Speaker 2>the wingless species that I related to them were placed
<v Speaker 2>in other sections because they were missing wings, or because
<v Speaker 2>new species were discovered. So there are some species that
<v Speaker 2>I have described with some collaborators that are really interesting,
<v Speaker 2>like some Caucasias, some wingod species that grows only on
<v Speaker 2>on on swagen for example, that that moss Is spaginum.
<v Speaker 1>There's a species, there's a species of backers that only
<v Speaker 1>grows on Sphagnum.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, there are three species at least that are endemic
<v Speaker 2>two pit bogs in the southern Brazilian highlands. There there
<v Speaker 2>are also Yeah, there are also other data other species
<v Speaker 2>that are endemic to one or other mountain peak. And
<v Speaker 2>and that the group of Bacaristra and era. It's a
<v Speaker 2>difficult one because they are more or less the morphology
<v Speaker 2>look alike to each other. But when you go to
<v Speaker 2>the other species that have like leaves and wings winged
<v Speaker 2>steams at the same time, they look completely different from
<v Speaker 2>each other. There are they are really remarkable and easy
<v Speaker 2>to tell a path from each other.
<v Speaker 1>So I got a question for I mean, this is
<v Speaker 1>kind of getting off topic here, but the where you're at,
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I had no idea that there were peat
<v Speaker 1>bogs in southern Brazil, like highland peat bogs. I think
<v Speaker 1>most Americans, which again this is set in the bar
<v Speaker 1>pretty low, but when most Americans think of Brazil, they
<v Speaker 1>just think of the Amazon. They don't realize how fucking
<v Speaker 1>big the country is, in the diversity of habitats, that
<v Speaker 1>there's like you know, these tropical you know, thorn forests
<v Speaker 1>or tropical deciduous dryland forests, or you know, so much
<v Speaker 1>cactus diversity. Where you're at, tell everybody what I mean,
<v Speaker 1>because you're down like near Argentina, Like what is the uh,
<v Speaker 1>It's it's the pompous Like what is the what is
<v Speaker 1>the what's the pampas? What are these grasslands? There's it's
<v Speaker 1>like arid, it's kind of dry. What is it like?
<v Speaker 2>So so when we're thinking Brazil is like the United States,
<v Speaker 2>we we live in a counter that's among the top
<v Speaker 2>ten largest in the world. And if you look at
<v Speaker 2>the Brazil, I mapp the northernmost point of Brazil is
<v Speaker 2>closer to the US, than to the southern part of Brazil,
<v Speaker 2>the easternmost point of Brazil, exposure to Africa, then to
<v Speaker 2>the western side of Brazil and so on. So when
<v Speaker 2>you think about the Amazon, it's a zero degree latitude,
<v Speaker 2>and down here where I leave, it's about thirty three
<v Speaker 2>degrees south something like Georgia, Texas and other southern US
<v Speaker 2>states same latitude. So the vegetation here it's a transition
<v Speaker 2>between the Atlantic rainforest in the north that gets drier
<v Speaker 2>and drier and coldd when you go south, and when
<v Speaker 2>we go west, there is a connection and transition with
<v Speaker 2>the chocoal domain from mostly found in Paraguay and Chargina. Chacoal, yes, yes,
<v Speaker 2>So if where I am, it's like the we have
<v Speaker 2>four seasons with we like frosts in the winter, very
<v Speaker 2>very cold sometimes that called zero the great temperature, very
<v Speaker 2>similar to Texas to something to some parts of Texas
<v Speaker 2>at least. And when we go to the west, we
<v Speaker 2>have a lot of mostly mostly the southern half of
<v Speaker 2>the states where I live, it's grasslands. So when we
<v Speaker 2>go west we have more spiny plants. We have like
<v Speaker 2>for example Prosops. That's not prozops, it changed the name
<v Speaker 2>we have Vacalia that once was a Cassia and now
<v Speaker 2>was Ralia. Another lagoon. So we have many.
<v Speaker 1>So there's vice. What was the first one you said?
<v Speaker 3>The first genus, uh, prosops I don't know, and now
<v Speaker 3>it's p R O.
<v Speaker 2>S O p I s. But this this genus recently
<v Speaker 2>changed and changed the name. I don't remember now the
<v Speaker 2>new name, yeah, bureau oh p I S.
<v Speaker 1>O prosopis, oh misquits Yeah, oh wow, there's oh now Tuma. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>they changed it to nel tuma And yes, anyway, I
<v Speaker 1>guess I understand that because that was a fucking you know,
<v Speaker 1>there was a big grab bag of lookalike faviords, you know,
<v Speaker 1>or memosoids. But still it's that's cool. Yeah, I bet
<v Speaker 1>you got some pretty cool luggings down there.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so this vegetation is also it also has a
<v Speaker 2>lot of endemic cocti, many of that small round cacti
<v Speaker 2>that people used to grow in their homes everywhere in
<v Speaker 2>the world. A lot of these species, like some of
<v Speaker 2>the genus Calisium. Yeah, found.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you guys. Have you guys have Onathoras down there?
<v Speaker 1>Are there native onatha o E n O th h
<v Speaker 1>E R a the Evening Primrose genius.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, there are. There are about six or seven Na
<v Speaker 2>native here and also some other interesting groups that we
<v Speaker 2>find here are some genera that are South American, like
<v Speaker 2>notic Astrime, but it belongs to a tribe of Asteriation
<v Speaker 2>that's mostly North American. That's the subcribe Chris Obsidiny of
<v Speaker 2>Tribe Asteri. It's a lineage from the north North America
<v Speaker 2>that is there here to the South America and mostly
<v Speaker 2>diversified in this grasslands area. We also have here other
<v Speaker 2>interesting genius of Asteri that's green Alias you know.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, we get some yeah, yeah, I didn't know
<v Speaker 1>they made it down there. Wow.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. Almost half of them are in South American
<v Speaker 2>in the other half in America with a very large
<v Speaker 2>conjunction distribution. So it's very it's very funny to see.
<v Speaker 2>I'm always intrigued about this Florida that has connections to
<v Speaker 2>places that today are far away from here. But the
<v Speaker 2>vegetation here so in the south is mostly grasslands. And
<v Speaker 2>when we start going to the north of my state,
<v Speaker 2>we we have Atlantic grainforest, we have the Arocada and
<v Speaker 2>Nick said forest on the highlands.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's right, and Costa Foia.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, so when when Yeah, it's it's an amazing
<v Speaker 2>landscape because you have you go to the Rocarda forest
<v Speaker 2>and the cloth forests associated with them along the border
<v Speaker 2>of Sejajero. That's a chain of of mountains. And when
<v Speaker 2>once you're there, you you see Fusia, you see Gunera, Rocardia,
<v Speaker 2>A lot of plaints that are related to the jungas
<v Speaker 2>in Bolivia. Go to Therocaria forests in southern Chile. And
<v Speaker 2>then if we still go up north of Brazil, we
<v Speaker 2>get we passed the Catecorn tropic and reach the tropical
<v Speaker 2>area of the country where we have the most rich
<v Speaker 2>area of the Atlantic main forests. That's amazing.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, wetlands, that's my favorite. Really quick, do you get
<v Speaker 1>any There's a genus of prote acy that I kept
<v Speaker 1>seeing in Brazil. It's one of the only ones rue
<v Speaker 1>Pala r o u p A l A. Do you
<v Speaker 1>guys get any of those? In Rio Grande o soul
<v Speaker 1>rue Pala it's protec the family.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, in some highland areas, but just a few species.
<v Speaker 2>It's much more and more diverse in central Brazil.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, okay, cool, Yeah, what if fruits. Uh, it's
<v Speaker 1>a fucking weird one man, kind of like stiff leaves. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>the proteas, it's one of those like cantwan and relic
<v Speaker 1>uh genera. But the racy that's down there, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>every time I go to South America, the members of
<v Speaker 1>the sunflower family I see just fucking blow my mind.
<v Speaker 1>They're so cool, They're so weird compared to what we
<v Speaker 1>get up here, you know.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, when we think about the ast racy floor
<v Speaker 2>of Brazil. Here in the South, we have like a
<v Speaker 2>sklet and Dalia. That's one of the specific genus that
<v Speaker 2>its position in the Phylogenetica three and devolution ary three
<v Speaker 2>of the family is still controversial. Sometimes it's the sister
<v Speaker 2>of the whole family. Sometimes it's not. But it's really
<v Speaker 2>interesting because it's anstion that's grass like, yeah, it's.
<v Speaker 1>In its own there's no these are I'm looking through Okay,
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to look it up an island. It looks like, yes,
<v Speaker 1>Schlecktin Dahlia. Wait, it's thought to be sister to the whole.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, sometimes in some in some evolution aren't sutions it is,
<v Speaker 2>And then it's in the subfamily barnadizoid. That's all the spiny,
<v Speaker 2>but this species is not spiny.
<v Speaker 1>I mean the barnetoids. The Barnet dieseloids are fucking weird too.
<v Speaker 1>For anybody listening. The barnet theeseloids, that whole subfamily is
<v Speaker 1>like the most basal family in racy. They look weird.
<v Speaker 1>A lot of them are really spiny. And Jesus Christ,
<v Speaker 1>you know, I've never heard of this man, I've never
<v Speaker 1>heard of this genus. Maybe I read about it in
<v Speaker 1>Vicky Funk's book, but Schlechtan Dahlia lose lazulifolia and it's
<v Speaker 1>it's just a monotypic genus.
<v Speaker 2>Huh, exactly what.
<v Speaker 1>It looks like. Crash, What the fuck? This family is insane?
<v Speaker 1>So okay, sorry, go.
<v Speaker 2>Ahead, go ahead, No way, we're reading the same each other,
<v Speaker 2>doesn't it's not problen so with this. Here in the South,
<v Speaker 2>we have some some tribes or lineages that are closer
<v Speaker 2>to the Patagonian ones, like Asauvi m It's another beautiful,
<v Speaker 2>beautiful tribe. But when we go to the Athletic forest,
<v Speaker 2>we have a lot of indent groups and a lot
<v Speaker 2>of general or tribes that were formerly considered cheesy that
<v Speaker 2>are bird pollinated and they have really astonishing showy flowers
<v Speaker 2>like with Easia in stiff there. They are completely incredible.
<v Speaker 1>Giant giant grapefruit sized, hummingbird pollinated. Uh tree like small tree. Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>And I don't know if you have seen when you
<v Speaker 2>were in the Sahadrian resume und Lika.
<v Speaker 1>What was it?
<v Speaker 2>W Oh?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I saw two species. I start, a fucking
<v Speaker 1>giant one mirabolis. That's bad. Is that bad pollinated?
<v Speaker 2>And I don't know, but maybe it is. It's a
<v Speaker 2>very odd genus because they are with the seed, the
<v Speaker 2>seed leaves. The capitula looked like our chokes, giant chokes.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>And then some of these suspicies they grow apathet to
<v Speaker 2>rocks along the Atlantic forest or in areas completely crazy.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was when I saw When I saw that,
<v Speaker 1>I mean yeah, and it's like the Wonderlikia mirabolus is
<v Speaker 1>so densely covered in wool that it looks like torches.
<v Speaker 1>I saw it during the dry season, during the dry winter,
<v Speaker 1>and it was, you know, it was fucking twelve to
<v Speaker 1>fifteen feet tall. I found an old capitula. I could
<v Speaker 1>tell it was astrasy just by the look of the leaves.
<v Speaker 1>It just kind of had that, you know, that look
<v Speaker 1>to it that could stop. But when I found a capitula,
<v Speaker 1>it was like an old one. I was like, this
<v Speaker 1>is fucking wild, what you know? And then I finally
<v Speaker 1>figured out what it was. But the leaves are huge.
<v Speaker 1>The leaves are huge, and they're very like leathery and
<v Speaker 1>wooly at the same time.
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. And we're thinking about the other biomes in Brazil,
<v Speaker 2>EUPATAI and n and I are really really diverse. There
<v Speaker 2>are several genera that are endemic to the Atlantic forest
<v Speaker 2>and this Ahada domain with adaptations for like post fire
<v Speaker 2>recovery and flowering after after after fires, with like legnal
<v Speaker 2>tubers in the underground systems. And when we see that
<v Speaker 2>this personalist approach to explain the distribution of a station
<v Speaker 2>around the globe, we have that lineas that maybe came
<v Speaker 2>from untied to our south in South America, developed here
<v Speaker 2>and did all the way around the globe to get
<v Speaker 2>to North America and to North America come back here
<v Speaker 2>to South America mid their or relatives. So we have
<v Speaker 2>a lot of alien Aliante. There is a tribe that
<v Speaker 2>I'm collaborating with another research that's neuralle Any. That's very
<v Speaker 2>intriguing too. We are reconstructing the phylogenetics of this tribe
<v Speaker 2>and it seems that the early origins of the tribe
<v Speaker 2>is linked to the Caribbean, with the Caribbean Islands landemic
<v Speaker 2>to the Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I mean yeah, the Caribbean Islands are just kind of
<v Speaker 1>stepping stones between North America and Northeastern Yeah. I saw
<v Speaker 1>a lot of plants when I was in like Dominican Republic.
<v Speaker 1>I saw a lot of those Vernoni tribes you know,
<v Speaker 1>at that h that I like genera that I later
<v Speaker 1>later saw in Brazil, and it kind of clicked, that
<v Speaker 1>made sense, like, oh, yeah, these have traveled all up
<v Speaker 1>and down the eastern South American.
<v Speaker 2>Another group of Astasia that's very interesting that found here
<v Speaker 2>where I lived, that I was not I was. I
<v Speaker 2>wasn't lucky enough to see them in the field the act,
<v Speaker 2>but I'm trying to find them because they are really rare.
<v Speaker 2>It's the monotypic generals.
<v Speaker 1>Jan hold hold on getting next. I'm getting too excited here.
<v Speaker 1>Let me write this down. What's it called? How do
<v Speaker 1>you spell it?
<v Speaker 2>I A okay, am M D H oh, okay, papse
<v Speaker 2>the a p p U spross.
<v Speaker 1>Wait wait, it's not a camp It's okay, Google, Googles
<v Speaker 1>have given me, give me a campto papist. How do
<v Speaker 1>you spell it?
<v Speaker 2>I A H I A am d h oh I am?
<v Speaker 1>Why is this not okay? You know this? Maybe this
<v Speaker 1>this is I think the Google's messing up here. Now
<v Speaker 1>it's not giving me anything. Damn, it's not load okay anyway.
<v Speaker 2>But but do you know a lot of li Like
<v Speaker 2>in the US, you have the case of Plice.
<v Speaker 1>Oh he Castle Clase. Yeah, that's yeah, that's a fucking
<v Speaker 1>weird one.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, way lost lost lineage that that is difficult
<v Speaker 4>to to explain how.
<v Speaker 2>It's got in North America. It's origion of the plague.
<v Speaker 2>So this Nippis is kind of the same. The tribe
<v Speaker 2>reality of aust race has just a few species, half
<v Speaker 2>of them in Southeastern Asia and three of them here
<v Speaker 2>in South America, and this Nipops is one of these
<v Speaker 2>very intriguing plants.
<v Speaker 1>Can you can you text me text me on WhatsApp
<v Speaker 1>with the name because I'm losing my mind. I can't
<v Speaker 1>findish that. I don't know why it's not loading. I
<v Speaker 1>might just be misunderstanding it. And there's a delay on
<v Speaker 1>the WhatsApp too, so it's hard to if you don't
<v Speaker 1>mind because this, I mean, that's the thing, you know
<v Speaker 1>what drives me nuts about astracy, And I'll go on
<v Speaker 1>a little rant while you're doing this, is it? I
<v Speaker 1>mean because of what we get in North America. A
<v Speaker 1>lot of the native members are just these heli ante
<v Speaker 1>tribes with the you know, the DYCs that the yellow flowers,
<v Speaker 1>and they all kind of look the same unless you
<v Speaker 1>look at the fieries. But I don't think people realize
<v Speaker 1>how fucking weird and and not only have about how
<v Speaker 1>ecologically successful this whole family is, like the sunflower family
<v Speaker 1>is when I when I figured that out, and starting
<v Speaker 1>when Vicky Funk sent me your book, her giant ten
<v Speaker 1>pound tome, and I was able to see all this
<v Speaker 1>weird shit that grows in other continents, I got really
<v Speaker 1>curious about the family. I mean when the stuff I
<v Speaker 1>saw in South Africa, some of those nephalioids, those paper
<v Speaker 1>daisies you get in Australia too, I mean, they don't
<v Speaker 1>they put all our dyc's to shame, not knocking them.
<v Speaker 1>I still like the d y C's, they're very ecologically successful.
<v Speaker 1>But this family has been around for you know, since
<v Speaker 1>the Eocene, maybe earlier fifty five million years, and it's
<v Speaker 1>done everything. And that's part of the reason why it's
<v Speaker 1>the you know, the second largest angiosperm family after orchids.
<v Speaker 1>It's just it's so fucking cool. It's so ecologically important.
<v Speaker 1>Some of them, you know, obviously, are really weedy and
<v Speaker 1>invasive in other comments, you know, if they're transported across
<v Speaker 1>an ocean or something. Because I mean, you see a
<v Speaker 1>plant that's so successful in its home, I can imagine
<v Speaker 1>how how we get out of control somewhere else. But
<v Speaker 1>it's just such a fucking marvelous family. Man. That's why
<v Speaker 1>I was, you know, like backers, they call it coyote
<v Speaker 1>bush in California. I don't know what they call it
<v Speaker 1>in Texas, but uh, you know, it's just a fucking
<v Speaker 1>great genius. And it's yeah, yeah, man. I mean, if
<v Speaker 1>if something that can recolonize disturbed, fucked up areas that
<v Speaker 1>humans have ruined so easily, you got to give it.
<v Speaker 1>You got to give it props, you know, you have to.
<v Speaker 2>You have to do with some respect, even that species
<v Speaker 2>that you were talking about, that's very common in Texas.
<v Speaker 2>A Baccary neglect. I think, I think the common name
<v Speaker 2>in some areas of Texas is over to each yeah yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Before sometimes give us some names that are now really
<v Speaker 2>following the importance of peace plants, and we always think
<v Speaker 2>in the most common ones and forget about or never
<v Speaker 2>have the opportunity to get to know the rare ones.
<v Speaker 2>But when you see as you're just thought about the
<v Speaker 2>whole family estoration, there are that common weeds and the
<v Speaker 2>yellow composites, and there are also a lot of outsiders,
<v Speaker 2>a lot of wet plants. And this happens several times
<v Speaker 2>in many linages, even in Bakries, because we were when
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you have heard about some species
<v Speaker 2>that are and baker is David Sony from the Andes.
<v Speaker 1>No, what are they tell me about them?
<v Speaker 2>So they are most most like backers. They grow apacit
<v Speaker 2>to the ground, and if they're not flowering, one easily
<v Speaker 2>could think that could be any moss. But then when
<v Speaker 2>you go to the ground and look at them closer,
<v Speaker 2>you can realize that there are there is like a
<v Speaker 2>covering of these species, and they only grow in salt flats.
<v Speaker 1>So it's like a madad. It's like a carpet plant.
<v Speaker 1>It's like a matid, like yeah, yes, yes, how high?
<v Speaker 1>How high up are they? High?
<v Speaker 2>Up?
<v Speaker 1>Are they high?
<v Speaker 2>Elevation about four thousand meters?
<v Speaker 1>Oh Jesus, okay, yeah, so that's why that's that they're
<v Speaker 1>taking on that that matted carpet alpine form. And what
<v Speaker 1>is what back risk? What what is this? David Sonya?
<v Speaker 2>You said, david sony and a callis.
<v Speaker 1>And no sense? Yeah, that makes I guess that makes sense? No, no,
<v Speaker 1>no ca Okay.
<v Speaker 2>So so they grow like a carpet and in one
<v Speaker 2>interesting thing is that they grow only in south flats.
<v Speaker 2>They are adapted to the salty soils in south flats.
<v Speaker 2>It's it's incredible, and these these plants are rare. But
<v Speaker 2>there are many other species too that you can find
<v Speaker 2>only like in the semitop Given Mountain. There are many,
<v Speaker 2>my friend inox.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the picture I see, the picture I see of
<v Speaker 1>back risk calls a C A U L I S.
<v Speaker 1>Which any buddy listening, if they're curious, should look up.
<v Speaker 1>Is it's a fucking This is so cool, man. It's
<v Speaker 1>a little rosette. It looks like Azirea. It's a little
<v Speaker 1>rosette and it's growing. I mean it's literally growing with
<v Speaker 1>chunks of salt nearby, like the photo is growing in salt.
<v Speaker 1>It looks like a really fucking stretch. So this is
<v Speaker 1>where we're in Chile? Is this northern Chile or central Chile?
<v Speaker 2>Northern Chili, but mostly Bolivia?
<v Speaker 1>Fuck, I need to see this thing. Oh my god,
<v Speaker 1>why is this? So there's there's so much salt up there,
<v Speaker 1>I mean in your high handies. So it's really high up,
<v Speaker 1>it's really windy, it's cold and there the evaporation race
<v Speaker 1>just got to be through the roof. So that's why
<v Speaker 1>there's all because I saw a misky that What is
<v Speaker 1>a prosopis tamarugo that grows out of u uh or
<v Speaker 1>maybe it was to I forget what species, but it
<v Speaker 1>was growing out of like chunks of salt. It was
<v Speaker 1>a misky growing out of pure salt, which is time blow.
<v Speaker 1>I mean how it tolerates that and prevents water from
<v Speaker 1>being pulled out of its roots by the soil. It
<v Speaker 1>grows and is crazy.
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's crazy. It's it's something that deserves to
<v Speaker 2>be started because there are other other unrelated species that
<v Speaker 2>that you if you go to the coastline of Uruguay
<v Speaker 2>nearby monte Video, you see the growing along the seashore
<v Speaker 2>like salty salty areas that are flooded, so that that
<v Speaker 2>adaptation is amazing.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've seen, I think I've seen that it might
<v Speaker 1>be it's probably a different species because I saw it
<v Speaker 1>in northern Chile. I saw backwards Junia in where do
<v Speaker 1>I see.
<v Speaker 2>It's it's the same found in Chile and along the Andes,
<v Speaker 2>but the same species. It reaches the coastline and in
<v Speaker 2>some areas of Uruguay it grows by the by the coast.
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing. And there are also a bunch of species
<v Speaker 2>that grow on tropical forests that you can find along
<v Speaker 2>the Amazon, for example, that they are climbing species and
<v Speaker 2>they grow leannesssent they grow several meters to reach the
<v Speaker 2>top of the trees. Sometimes people vis identify them think
<v Speaker 2>that they could be in my Kenya, but they have
<v Speaker 2>nothing to do with Mikela.
<v Speaker 1>There's climbing like there's a vining back.
<v Speaker 2>Ers, yes, vining. Yeah, some of them can get even woody.
<v Speaker 2>And we also have some species here in Safa presum
<v Speaker 2>that they are three? Not not sure? Up there are
<v Speaker 2>three species. They are found in some the Cityl's forests
<v Speaker 2>or the Clinux vegetation.
<v Speaker 1>How big did they get if they're an actual tree? Like,
<v Speaker 1>how how tall do they get?
<v Speaker 2>Uh? For for far backers are consider it three up
<v Speaker 2>above five meters five seven meters they can reach.
<v Speaker 1>That's insane, that's crazy. What species are? What are some
<v Speaker 1>of the tree species that you get? How do you
<v Speaker 1>spell that?
<v Speaker 2>L O N G, I A T T E and
<v Speaker 2>U A A long?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, let me look this see let me look
<v Speaker 1>this one up. I mean it just it just kind
<v Speaker 1>of goes to show you that no, no genus is
<v Speaker 1>restricted and what it can do given enough time and
<v Speaker 1>natural selection and you know, selection pressures for different environments.
<v Speaker 1>But uh, what are some what are some of the
<v Speaker 1>I've got a bunch of unidentified species on my naturess.
<v Speaker 1>I'll send you the link after if you can identify
<v Speaker 1>some of them. But uh, of course I think, Uh,
<v Speaker 1>what were some of the cool ones I saw down there?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>I saw Platypoda. I saw only three have been identified
<v Speaker 1>dracuncular folia. I saw that one Trimerius in the restaurant
<v Speaker 1>unidentified one's one has a flower with an extremely long peduncle. Damn,
<v Speaker 1>it's yes, it's crazy. Man. Are any humming bird pound
<v Speaker 1>you know?
<v Speaker 2>As far as I know, there is no mm hmm
<v Speaker 2>having bird pernet. I don't know any any species, but
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe this one that you told before the people
<v Speaker 2>that this this one is really interesting too. It's found
<v Speaker 2>with this junk distribution in some areas of north Bolivia
<v Speaker 2>and southern Peru, and then it's found again in the
<v Speaker 2>eastern Brazil in Sahadu and the rock out crops of
<v Speaker 2>that land green forest and I am Maurice Bonifacino throne.
<v Speaker 2>While we have nick name it as the cauliflower backeries.
<v Speaker 1>The color which one? Which one?
<v Speaker 2>The people because it has secondary heads and it's a
<v Speaker 2>lot of heads all together that looks like a coldiflower.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, it's fucking Let me. Are you on a
<v Speaker 1>computer right now? Maybe I can send you this now
<v Speaker 1>and you can tell me what some of these are.
<v Speaker 1>If not, but uh, let me see if I can. Uh.
<v Speaker 1>I think I've got your email on there. If not,
<v Speaker 1>I'll just send it to you to your What's app.
<v Speaker 1>But let me see this.
<v Speaker 2>Feel free to send me back speakers anytime, because it's
<v Speaker 2>always a pleasure to see.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, there we go. So uh yeah, god,
<v Speaker 1>so how many? How many different species? You just all right,
<v Speaker 1>thanks for doing that. By the way, Gustavo just went
<v Speaker 1>through all my back risks observations in Brazil and uh
<v Speaker 1>identified all of them. Laterals Sarah Latta kel Vessen's Oh
<v Speaker 1>what is this one? This one was someone was calling dracuncula.
<v Speaker 1>Let me see what it. Oh, that's cal Vessons too.
<v Speaker 1>You were saying Dracuncula folia is like the trash bag
<v Speaker 1>like catch all, uh, species description for a lot of
<v Speaker 1>probably what it is a lot of species then down
<v Speaker 1>there mm hmmm.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's a widespread species found. It's like Baka
<v Speaker 2>is neglected for Texas, Baker is dragging Palifarida in South America?
<v Speaker 2>Is that species that grows in the most stubed site?
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm yeah, yeah, yeah. What is some of these
<v Speaker 1>are just some of these were so waxy, man, it's crazy,
<v Speaker 1>like they had so much resin and and epicarticular wax
<v Speaker 1>on their Like, what is this one? What is it?
<v Speaker 1>Back it tatii? How do you pronounce it? What is Itatia.
<v Speaker 1>What is that? Like? What is.
<v Speaker 2>So iya Itachiaya is the name of the highest mountain
<v Speaker 2>in huge and I State. That's two thousand, eight hundred
<v Speaker 2>and eighty eight meters above Silavu, And this is an
<v Speaker 2>area of a lot of Baka is endemic to this
<v Speaker 2>chain of mountains, but it is not endemic to that.
<v Speaker 2>It was found there at the first time. And it's
<v Speaker 2>also distributed in compus who passes rocky grass from state.
<v Speaker 2>It's it's a species that's half the way to become
<v Speaker 2>like a plato because if they also have second bary heads,
<v Speaker 2>but they are not as developed as in they are
<v Speaker 2>with much less capitular.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so so the second the secondary the secondary
<v Speaker 1>head thing is weird too, because I think most people
<v Speaker 1>don't get what I mean. Astracly morphowers is so weird
<v Speaker 1>to begin with them, most like the secondary head. It's
<v Speaker 1>it takes a while for people to understand. So, you know,
<v Speaker 1>like a for anybody listening, like a sunflower is ahead
<v Speaker 1>of tiny flowers, right, So then imagine a sunflower itself
<v Speaker 1>being you know, that flower head that is a sunflower
<v Speaker 1>then being ensconced in another in volocar like a little
<v Speaker 1>vase that holds the flowers with another with another flower
<v Speaker 1>like so it's like doubling up. It's it's it's packing
<v Speaker 1>way more flowers floor. It's into a flower head like
<v Speaker 1>you know, you see it in a lot of Vernonia tribe.
<v Speaker 1>It's weird. What is the aramandas? Is that the genus
<v Speaker 1>of tree? Yes, composite yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm. It's like a trend in many distinct images
<v Speaker 2>growing on the aard domain. And it also happens in
<v Speaker 2>just a few species of packers too, these secondary heads.
<v Speaker 2>But I add something that's really cool about the capital
<v Speaker 2>and morphology too is when you find a single flowered
<v Speaker 2>apul there's species. Yeah, there is two species that I
<v Speaker 2>discovered the sept that's the rich. When people thought think
<v Speaker 2>about Brazil as the most rich country concerning its flora,
<v Speaker 2>that's true. Then if we think in a Brazilian state
<v Speaker 2>that's the richest. One is minis your eyes And when
<v Speaker 2>you go to Minios your eyes is uh uh highland
<v Speaker 2>area mountain area that has the riches biodiversity square meter
<v Speaker 2>in Brazil. And there once I was doing food work
<v Speaker 2>with my my supervisor and some colleagues, and I was
<v Speaker 2>looking triggered to some plants that looked like backeries, but
<v Speaker 2>they were all the way along sterio with no florids.
<v Speaker 2>Then I decided to oh, let's take a look closer
<v Speaker 2>to them, because if it's not flowering now, maybe it
<v Speaker 2>could flower later, or maybe I can struct the na
<v Speaker 2>and gas and having an idea where it could fall
<v Speaker 2>within the philogy of the gyms. And then when I
<v Speaker 2>grabbed that branch of the plant, I was shocked because
<v Speaker 2>there was there were really tiny heads hidden between each
<v Speaker 2>leaves of the stem. She was almost like like the
<v Speaker 2>size of a hair. And then I walked I said
<v Speaker 2>that that moment when you see a plant in the
<v Speaker 2>field that say, oh no, this one is a new one.
<v Speaker 2>And then I collected found the staminates the male plant
<v Speaker 2>two and took them to the lab to the barn
<v Speaker 2>to investigate more. But since the beginning I was sure
<v Speaker 2>that it was something new. And after that I found
<v Speaker 2>the second one in the same area that they have.
<v Speaker 2>This the female capitoli has just one flower.
<v Speaker 1>It's like and they're tiny. They're tiny flowers.
<v Speaker 2>In ven time time, tiny really tiny, a few millimeters long,
<v Speaker 2>the the width of hair, and then surrounded by a
<v Speaker 2>really narrow infolok of hilaris and hidden by the axis
<v Speaker 2>of the leaves.
<v Speaker 1>Because grows in a dry environment or what.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, because when you go to the Sajad, the
<v Speaker 2>sun radiation, the sun exposure is very high. Yeah, so
<v Speaker 2>a lot of plants, plants that are waxy, and they
<v Speaker 2>also have very odd leaf patterns along this stem because
<v Speaker 2>they try to the plants. They they have really congested
<v Speaker 2>leaves because this way one leaves provides shadow to the
<v Speaker 2>next one. And and then you have these really rose
<v Speaker 2>late plants. And the capital of these two species were
<v Speaker 2>hidden in between the leaves and we're really small.
<v Speaker 1>That was something I meant when I was down there
<v Speaker 1>because Saharo, I mean it'll be it'll be dry for
<v Speaker 1>like six months, right, you got dry winter periods, but
<v Speaker 1>it's still really hot. But then during the summer it
<v Speaker 1>gets a lot of rain. Right like it greens up.
<v Speaker 1>It looks night, it's night and day. I mean, it's
<v Speaker 1>totally different, but it's that long dry Read why a
<v Speaker 1>lot of these things have to evolve adaptations to dry
<v Speaker 1>you know, like building a tuberous storage route or having
<v Speaker 1>stem succulents, or going drought decision. There's a lot of
<v Speaker 1>cacti grow on those areas. But what I noticed that
<v Speaker 1>thing among the leaves that kind of imbricate, almost like
<v Speaker 1>snake scales. Everything converges on that, like all these unrelated
<v Speaker 1>plants are doing it. Members of the coffee family, members
<v Speaker 1>of the of sunflower family, members of the pea family,
<v Speaker 1>the cama cristas. What's what's up with that? That that like?
<v Speaker 1>And you've got a lot of only have one or
<v Speaker 1>two stems and they'll be totally leafless for the But like,
<v Speaker 1>if you look at Lichnopera, you know Lichnofa, the vernonia relative,
<v Speaker 1>looks like a fucking it looks it looks like a spruce.
<v Speaker 1>It's an it's a sunflower. It's related to iron weeds,
<v Speaker 1>which people in North America would know it's related iron
<v Speaker 1>weeds to vernonia. But it looks like a spruce. And
<v Speaker 1>it's got like plastic feeling leaves with felt any underside,
<v Speaker 1>like tiny hairs on the underside. Why what do you
<v Speaker 1>if there is anyone written papers on that that trade
<v Speaker 1>among all these unrelated lineages of plants.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, that that are if you see the sajado,
<v Speaker 2>that are two two main types of vegetation the seja
<v Speaker 2>to itself, that's like more like a savannah. And when
<v Speaker 2>you go higher in the Saha, do you have the
<v Speaker 2>compus pasts that are rock grasslands with the soil it's
<v Speaker 2>all sandy soil. The mountains are made made of quartz
<v Speaker 2>and the soil is quartside in the in a lot
<v Speaker 2>of sand. And then do you see a lot of
<v Speaker 2>plants that are adapted to reflect the excessive sunlight because
<v Speaker 2>sunlight in excess could in a bit photosynthesis and also
<v Speaker 2>the U V radiation and to avoid losing water. So
<v Speaker 2>they have this very encompass passages. It's very a different
<v Speaker 2>way of presenting beliefs in this imbricate abbit. And by
<v Speaker 2>the way I have to describe a new backer is
<v Speaker 2>that from the air that I'm considering may be called it,
<v Speaker 2>but this lecopodioids because it looks like a lecopody lives
<v Speaker 2>are really undicates, yes, and so it's a trient. And
<v Speaker 2>in their plants from campus passes. There are some papers
<v Speaker 2>on the evolution of that vegetation that talk about this,
<v Speaker 2>and it's incredible when you see the anatomy of the
<v Speaker 2>plants from campus pasts. Professora Professor Manusa from Universologic Santaldo.
<v Speaker 2>She has some amazing papers on the morphological morphun atomic
<v Speaker 2>adaptations of these lands to save water or to decrease
<v Speaker 2>the amount of light they receive, even with tri combs
<v Speaker 2>or even with some other types of covering. It's it's
<v Speaker 2>really amazing. It's the most diverse area in Resum.
<v Speaker 1>It's not I went there. I was just intoxicated with
<v Speaker 1>how crazy it was. What were you saying before I
<v Speaker 1>interrupted you? If you go what? What what were you
<v Speaker 1>saying before I interrupted you? You were you were going
<v Speaker 1>to say it's the most diverse area in Brazil if
<v Speaker 1>you go and then.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, so so well, I was talking about this
<v Speaker 2>area because we were talking about a single flowered capitla
<v Speaker 2>that that's the reason. And before that we were we
<v Speaker 2>were talking about you told something about how waxy are
<v Speaker 2>the leaves of Pocontis And this is a very interesting
<v Speaker 2>command because do you know why?
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean, I would imagine it's something that it's
<v Speaker 1>a drought adaptation mixed with you know, response to their
<v Speaker 1>bavery pressure or what mm.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it's related to this. But taxonomically is very
<v Speaker 2>important because where before the phylogenetics the construction of the genus.
<v Speaker 2>It was considered that this type of what that not
<v Speaker 2>the wax, but the type of tricom that exudates that
<v Speaker 2>secrete this wax is unique to back. So it was
<v Speaker 2>some some earlier the researchers proposed that this was a cinapomorphy,
<v Speaker 2>a characteristic that was uh that appeared in the genus
<v Speaker 2>from a common ancestor. Yeah. And this this type of
<v Speaker 2>tracon is very odd because it's it's called the tifted indomentum.
<v Speaker 1>It's a tricomb. It's it's not just a wax, it's
<v Speaker 1>a trichomb. It's a tough.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's a the tifted indumental. It released this wax
<v Speaker 2>that covers the entire leaves or wings. So it's a
<v Speaker 2>it's a very bizarre recon because it has a single
<v Speaker 2>bazzal cell and a lot of projections like former trichombs
<v Speaker 2>in evolution, an air past that all joined together in
<v Speaker 2>a single basal cell, and the toothed indmentum. When you
<v Speaker 2>look in the with the naked eye, it really it
<v Speaker 2>reminds of that the dots finding found in mutation. You
<v Speaker 2>know that glendola dots founding mutation.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, myrt taste myrtle family.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, that is one. So when you when you
<v Speaker 2>look to some Bacca species that are really waxy, you know,
<v Speaker 2>sometimes can see with the naked eyes and dots in
<v Speaker 2>these dots, they they release all the wax that covers
<v Speaker 2>empire the leaves and the stems of a lot of species.
<v Speaker 2>So some researchers proposed that this was a synapomorphy of
<v Speaker 2>the genus, but after the phylogenetic reconstruction. In fact, the
<v Speaker 2>first the Virgin lineage does not have this type of racon,
<v Speaker 2>but all the following ones they have this very specific
<v Speaker 2>type of crac as far as I know, only found
<v Speaker 2>in bacries.
<v Speaker 1>What is so it's a tough that indumentum, But what
<v Speaker 1>is the what's the actual is that the name for
<v Speaker 1>the tricone type or what it's it's Oh yeah, I say, okay, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at this paper. I'm looking at that I
<v Speaker 1>think it was in I mean, it's one of your papers.
<v Speaker 1>But there's a good up close view of it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And there is also the fact the original paper
<v Speaker 2>that have that have described this type of precom that's
<v Speaker 2>from eighteen seven something. And remember exactly from a German
<v Speaker 2>researcher that was the first one that have looked at
<v Speaker 2>this type of disaster. I come and have drawn it
<v Speaker 2>perfectly the way it is. It's really really intriguing.
<v Speaker 1>So does this does this tricom secrete wax too?
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it secretes the wax that covers the that gives
<v Speaker 2>that that appearance. That chine appears several species of battles
<v Speaker 2>after the other along the evolution of the gyms. Some
<v Speaker 2>other men just have lost the trichones, but most of
<v Speaker 2>them still had it.
<v Speaker 1>So this this wax is it? So the wax is
<v Speaker 1>secreted by these hairs, and it's like, what does it
<v Speaker 1>look like? What does the hair look like? Is it
<v Speaker 1>like a like bulbous in the base or what is it?
<v Speaker 2>Uh? The base is just a single flattened cell, and
<v Speaker 2>all the other projections of the trichon like uh uh,
<v Speaker 2>they are all attached to that single cell.
<v Speaker 1>But it's a it's a living trichone though, I mean
<v Speaker 1>it's it's producing. It's it's alive and it's producing this glandular.
<v Speaker 2>Exident like lipid.
<v Speaker 1>This wax fucking wild man. Yes, and and all but
<v Speaker 1>one or two species do it in the genus Sorry, all, all,
<v Speaker 1>all species in the genus do it except for one
<v Speaker 1>or two? Is that correct? Is that what you said?
<v Speaker 2>Most of them we have currently we have a classification
<v Speaker 2>with seven subgenera. In Backers, the first subgenus that start
<v Speaker 2>peontologies diverging from the rest of the genus, it does
<v Speaker 2>not have this type of indimental. Then when we move
<v Speaker 2>towards the other next diverging unage, most of them are
<v Speaker 2>characterized by this type of dracon and in some subgenera,
<v Speaker 2>some clades or some individual species have lost it, but
<v Speaker 2>most of them has this distrait. It's really important, and.
<v Speaker 1>That's probably I mean when people are making tea out
<v Speaker 1>of backeries. As you know, a lot of the South
<v Speaker 1>American species especially are very medicinal. That's what they're essentially
<v Speaker 1>going for, is the compound produced by those tufted tricombes.
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm I think so. But also there are some
<v Speaker 2>compounds that are important that are from the.
<v Speaker 1>Loose the insight of like thes the nest of you.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, doubtless, doctor Leslie. The this walks also plays an
<v Speaker 2>important role.
<v Speaker 1>Mm hm so did that? Well? Going back to that
<v Speaker 1>the tiny the tiny flower, you know, single single floor
<v Speaker 1>perpetula species that you found. Was that a new species
<v Speaker 1>or what was it that?
<v Speaker 2>There were two new species? One was I forgot the name.
<v Speaker 2>One was is oh ship Let me think twisty. The
<v Speaker 2>two species were described together in the same thing. One
<v Speaker 2>is back the simplex, and the other one is that
<v Speaker 2>carries I forgot the name.
<v Speaker 1>Let me see if you can see the habitat. Oh
<v Speaker 1>it's yeo am I am I pronouncing that right because
<v Speaker 1>I know it looks like sarah do sippo pronounced in Gringo,
<v Speaker 1>but of course in Portuguese, when you've got two ares
<v Speaker 1>next to each other, it has an h sound. So
<v Speaker 1>it's how do you say? How do you pronounce it?
<v Speaker 2>Sorry?
<v Speaker 1>I did not understand that the mountain range where you
<v Speaker 1>found these, it's saha thoile. How do you pronounce.
<v Speaker 2>It the mountain range?
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, right, so I didn't funk it up too much. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>let's see, Oh wow, oh ship. Yeah, okay, so I'm
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at this paper now. God, the thing is crazy, man. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Look at those tiny little things. They're they're hidden in
<v Speaker 1>the axles just above the leaves.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, adult, and these.
<v Speaker 1>Are probably waxy as hell. To right, very like almost sticky.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, the two, the two are this. The atata is
<v Speaker 2>completely sticky. Once once I one friend of mine, we
<v Speaker 2>were doing for the work together, and he told me
<v Speaker 2>that could be a good idea to put alcohol on
<v Speaker 2>the plant press to save the plants. But that was
<v Speaker 2>the worst idea. All of them get became a glue
<v Speaker 2>and I could never get them out of the newspaper.
<v Speaker 1>Oh they got well, they so when you put alcohol
<v Speaker 1>on it, it kind of turned them into just like
<v Speaker 1>this wheat paste, like it made them like fucking wow,
<v Speaker 1>like a wallpaper paste.
<v Speaker 2>It solves the rocks completely and it became like a blue.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, some of them, some of those, some of the
<v Speaker 1>some of the back road species I remember seeing on
<v Speaker 1>there were super sticky supers. I got collected specimens and
<v Speaker 1>brought them to the arbarium and Rio and I remember
<v Speaker 1>pulling them out of the plant press. Yeah, it was
<v Speaker 1>like matted, like if you don't separate the leaves when
<v Speaker 1>you're putting them in there, you just come out with
<v Speaker 1>this wad. You know, it looks like a want of
<v Speaker 1>like almost green chewing gum. So, okay, what backer is magnifica?
<v Speaker 1>What is that that's like a small tree and why
<v Speaker 1>what's what's magnificent about it?
<v Speaker 2>So this one is maybe my favorite one. In fact,
<v Speaker 2>before I was thinking if we were going to record
<v Speaker 2>the video or just a conversation, and I have a
<v Speaker 2>T shirt with business species. It's really beautiful. Uh, maybe
<v Speaker 2>one of the most beautiful ones species of parkers. It's
<v Speaker 2>endemic to Pico, that's the highest mountain in Brazil. During
<v Speaker 2>during a long time, uh, the Brazilian government thought that
<v Speaker 2>this mountain was the highest mountain in Brazil. But in
<v Speaker 2>fact we have Picco don the Vienna and some the
<v Speaker 2>police in the Amazona that are higher. So this bakar
<v Speaker 2>is magnificantly from this mountain, part national Parkara and it
<v Speaker 2>grows only in two peaks. It has very large leaves.
<v Speaker 2>It's a shrub with large leaves that that looks like
<v Speaker 2>a mertesy the myrtle family and the it's dioecious and
<v Speaker 2>but the staminate. The Mao capital sometimes has some like
<v Speaker 2>uh not developed ray floor. It's around the main Mayo capital, while.
<v Speaker 1>One has the florids, yes, but but not developed, like
<v Speaker 1>uh something not not developed, because well, how can I
<v Speaker 1>explain that?
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember if you were recording before when we
<v Speaker 2>were talking about if Baca is always dioecious, because most
<v Speaker 2>of people assuming that Chills is complete in dioecious but
<v Speaker 2>in fact biocious. Yeah, sort about the pronunciation. So during
<v Speaker 2>a long time it was accepted that Packers was dioecious.
<v Speaker 2>And when any botanists find a plant that looks like
<v Speaker 2>backeries but was like hermaphrodite or other types of expression
<v Speaker 2>of sexuality, they were being described in segregated genera. And
<v Speaker 2>we have for example, Bacaridastrom that was a segregated genus
<v Speaker 2>from Baccaries that was even considered cognized, that has a
<v Speaker 2>capitula that they have the middle of the capitrum with
<v Speaker 2>staminate flowers and the margins with the distillate feminion flowers
<v Speaker 2>for it. So there are two species this way with
<v Speaker 2>hermaphrody capitula, and there was another segregate from backer Is
<v Speaker 2>that's it Alums, which the three species belonging to this
<v Speaker 2>genus they had entirely slate or feminine capitulum and on
<v Speaker 2>the other side functionally male capitulum that has in the
<v Speaker 2>disc staminate floords, but it also has gray floodeds in
<v Speaker 2>the margin like a small daisy. Oh wow, it's really
<v Speaker 2>really yeah, it's lovely.
<v Speaker 1>There's only two species of bisexual flower backers.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, completely bisexual. The capitulum are only two. Then,
<v Speaker 2>so this this the reality is very treaty because there
<v Speaker 2>are there are most of the species that have male
<v Speaker 2>and femal capitulum. Then there are two species that have
<v Speaker 2>hermaphrodite capitulum, but the sexuality the flowers are separate that
<v Speaker 2>are distaminating the pistolate ones. Then there is a species
<v Speaker 2>that has three types of capitulum, one completely male, the
<v Speaker 2>other femeral and intermediated hermaphrodite. There is a Pteropalamus that
<v Speaker 2>has a completely pistolate or feminine capitulum and another capitulum
<v Speaker 2>that's functional the male with some gray florets that are pistillate.
<v Speaker 2>And there is another backer Is monoica that has u
<v Speaker 2>staminate and pistillate capitum separate to each other, but in
<v Speaker 2>the same plant. And this baccar Is magnificat. So is
<v Speaker 2>something that's like a link between the eterotalamus that has
<v Speaker 2>gray florets and the other species close to them, like
<v Speaker 2>baccar Is Acaullis that we were talking before that lives
<v Speaker 2>in South Flats in Bolivia that has h staminate capitals
<v Speaker 2>in one capitala on one side and the late capitol
<v Speaker 2>on the other side. And this magnifica is like intermediate
<v Speaker 2>between these two types of capitula.
<v Speaker 1>On one side, like it's got it's got male flowers
<v Speaker 1>on one side of the capitulum and then female on
<v Speaker 1>the other side.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, the the t alums staminate ones have this
<v Speaker 2>floorage that are male and ray flowage that are female.
<v Speaker 1>So it's it's niche basically, but then.
<v Speaker 2>There is ah, it's no man issues, it's guy of
<v Speaker 2>issues issues. Okay, I don't know, is it okay? The
<v Speaker 2>pronunciation it's like one well, okay, So the alums was
<v Speaker 2>described as guide of the issues. Then when we go
<v Speaker 2>to bakar is magnifica and it's history species that's also
<v Speaker 2>from the same mountain in Brazil Dubia. It also has
<v Speaker 2>the Mayo capitla with some scattered, scattered, undeveloped the ravelots
<v Speaker 2>in the margin and the other claude that's sister to
<v Speaker 2>the etalamus and the magnifica, and it's and they did
<v Speaker 2>sony from the south flats of the end is. So
<v Speaker 2>it's like Magnifica is a it's not evolutionary, correct, but
<v Speaker 2>we could say that it's like the descent link between
<v Speaker 2>these two other clads. It has in the intermediate characteristics
<v Speaker 2>of the of not developed the ray flats around the Functionally,
<v Speaker 2>it looks.
<v Speaker 1>Like the leaves look like a it looks like a
<v Speaker 1>madrone like it looks like our Bautists, which I don't
<v Speaker 1>know if you know that genus maybe in hortor culture
<v Speaker 1>down there, but it looks it's a member of very Casey.
<v Speaker 1>But it's the leaves look like that. It looks like
<v Speaker 1>a yes cloud.
<v Speaker 2>Foresh Yeah, yeah, it's magnificent and the male.
<v Speaker 1>So this is like a This is like a high elevation,
<v Speaker 1>very wet forests that are grows in.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it grows on rock out crops and along river
<v Speaker 2>and vegetation above two thousand and eight hundred meters side
<v Speaker 2>only only in a few places and along the edge
<v Speaker 2>of this this mountain. We can find it too in
<v Speaker 2>forest peaks of cold forest. So it's a it's a
<v Speaker 2>link between three D images that are completely separate. One
<v Speaker 2>is in this mountain that's bad magnifica. The other lineage
<v Speaker 2>is along the end is living in south flats, that
<v Speaker 2>is David Sony and Bazakali and the thirty one that
<v Speaker 2>was the former Interotalum is genus Genus. It's from the
<v Speaker 2>Pampus in Uruguay, argent China and south of Brazil. And
<v Speaker 2>so during a long time, no, it was not reason
<v Speaker 2>about to think that the south flat plants were related
<v Speaker 2>to the Pampas plants, although I was already considered the
<v Speaker 2>tur alums before and when we get to know these
<v Speaker 2>plants from Pecodabanda in National Park and did the phylogenetic reconstruction,
<v Speaker 2>it was crazy that these two plants were the missing
<v Speaker 2>link between these other two lineages from the end.
<v Speaker 1>So far apart. Man, I'm looking at a satellite that
<v Speaker 1>now of parking now Capara, how do you pronounce it?
<v Speaker 1>H And it's a It's it's amazing because you can
<v Speaker 1>kind of see I mean, first off, I hadn't I
<v Speaker 1>mean I should have known. But uh, the Atlantic Forest,
<v Speaker 1>I mean there's like one percent two percent of it left.
<v Speaker 1>It's all been I'm seeing just farm land. Everything's been
<v Speaker 1>developed around it. But this one park what saved this
<v Speaker 1>one park. Like what prevented this one park from being
<v Speaker 1>turned into farmland like everything else around it, you know.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the fact that during the imperial time of Brazil,
<v Speaker 2>when the country was ruled by the Portuguese things, they
<v Speaker 2>thought that this mountain was the highest point of Brazil.
<v Speaker 2>So they decided to call the people that one data
<v Speaker 2>that means the flags speak and they put a Brazilian
<v Speaker 2>flag there and kept it like a preserved area since
<v Speaker 2>then because it was considered the highest point of the country.
<v Speaker 2>After that it was turned into a national park because
<v Speaker 2>it's completely distinct landscape, very high. It's the highest mountain
<v Speaker 2>in eastern Brazil, and also the mountains are really scenic,
<v Speaker 2>and the percentage of the endemic plants, it's amazing there.
<v Speaker 2>And we have many lineages like this, yeah, not only
<v Speaker 2>for not only for ba, but we have for many
<v Speaker 2>other families of plants uh in and also Inaya some
<v Speaker 2>some species of genera that are sister to onion linages.
<v Speaker 2>So it's like a missing link for the evolution of
<v Speaker 2>many alpine flora in South America. It's remarkable.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you could see it's i mean everything is
<v Speaker 1>dense green and then everything around it is like chicken
<v Speaker 1>poked with you know, just agriculture, like the same thing
<v Speaker 1>you see in any you know, first world country where
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of development, and you know, your European
<v Speaker 1>colonialism was for a long time. But it's thank god
<v Speaker 1>that little peace got set up. The Atlantic Forest, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>from what little I saw of it, it's it's so
<v Speaker 1>remarkable and so cool, and it's it's kind of like
<v Speaker 1>almost a temperate like a temperate rainforest. Yeah, with those insulburts,
<v Speaker 1>those huge granite domes that pop up in it.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, like the sugar if you if you go to
<v Speaker 2>these mountains in eastern Brazil, like Itachia's Organs and Capara.
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing because it's a completely distinct alpine flora that
<v Speaker 2>lives there much much longer time than the Andes exist.
<v Speaker 2>They are mountain things that are really much older than
<v Speaker 2>the Andes and maybe for some plant limages that these
<v Speaker 2>mountains were the museum the source of many images that
<v Speaker 2>have migrated to the Andes and diversified afterwards, even for
<v Speaker 2>for battles we find in these ancient mountains that are
<v Speaker 2>like completely isolated, the Sky Islands or the Skyland or
<v Speaker 2>Sky Archipelagus, we we find many of the bazau or
<v Speaker 2>or thet diverse. Is there so pointing that these places
<v Speaker 2>are really important in the zeals of Paleo indonesisms. We
<v Speaker 2>could say.
<v Speaker 1>That, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean it's
<v Speaker 1>fucking and plus they're so high up. They're so high up.
<v Speaker 1>I'm just I'm just clarifying a pronunciation for anybody listening. No, man,
<v Speaker 1>you you speak excellent English. But but i mean they're
<v Speaker 1>so high up too, especially for wind dispersed species, and
<v Speaker 1>a lot of backgrounds are wind dispersed, understand, you know
<v Speaker 1>how easily they can Yeah, they could act as a diversity.
<v Speaker 2>And these mountains are also the northernmost point for distribution
<v Speaker 2>of carocari and in Brazil. So you go there, you
<v Speaker 2>can see some okay, athortist tickets that are amazing because
<v Speaker 2>all the temperate aua is together associated with this high
<v Speaker 2>altitude of kara forests from people.
<v Speaker 1>Probably how long how long can those trees? Yeah, the
<v Speaker 1>car a thousand years?
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, yes they can. It's controversial in fact, because
<v Speaker 2>most of the oldest ones, the old growth ones, like
<v Speaker 2>the employers in the United States, they were cleared because
<v Speaker 2>would the team that they were was very valuable. So
<v Speaker 2>just a few old ones survived and uh that there
<v Speaker 2>are two here in south of Brazil. One people say
<v Speaker 2>that is more than one thousand years, but other people
<v Speaker 2>does not like con it's not really sure about it.
<v Speaker 2>And there are other that's this is said to be
<v Speaker 2>seven hundred years. Anyway, when you when you see these
<v Speaker 2>two plants that hundreds one hundred years old, you you
<v Speaker 2>you get completely how can I say, you can't believe
<v Speaker 2>how big they could? Yeah? How and you then you
<v Speaker 2>can't wonder hi, how wonderful it was before they were
<v Speaker 2>all they had to the grounds because they had it's
<v Speaker 2>just you know that very classic monkey monkey three.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, the monkey puzzle, yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
<v Speaker 2>But that here in South America, they have a very
<v Speaker 2>unique way of the they have how can I say,
<v Speaker 2>the sel.
<v Speaker 1>The habit like, the way that the way they looked
<v Speaker 1>like kind of like a.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, the way they look like when you look at
<v Speaker 2>these uh, centuries old trees, it's like they have summi
<v Speaker 2>fire in several of this type of canopy over just
<v Speaker 2>one single trunk. They are really beautiful. But said that,
<v Speaker 2>there are only just a few.
<v Speaker 1>Do you think are the oldest? Are the oldest ones
<v Speaker 1>in this park.
<v Speaker 2>Probably I think, no, the oldest ones are in south
<v Speaker 2>of Brazil because here the conditions are more favorable for
<v Speaker 2>them to live longer. Although they were they were in
<v Speaker 2>eastern Brazil since a long time after the last the
<v Speaker 2>end of the Plicetocent, the weather start getting more drier
<v Speaker 2>and hotter in this upland areas inst Razio, so so
<v Speaker 2>it became less favorable to the arrowcaras developed and leave
<v Speaker 2>for so long. But this is why today the southern
<v Speaker 2>ones are older.
<v Speaker 1>There was there was just a fire in one of
<v Speaker 1>those Uh. I'm friends with a guy who works in
<v Speaker 1>one of those parks that I think Nova Fribergo, and he, uh,
<v Speaker 1>he was posting photos of a of a fire that
<v Speaker 1>just came, which is insane because those forests aren't supposed
<v Speaker 1>to burn. Those are not fire at that forest. But man,
<v Speaker 1>there's once you get southwest of South Paulo, there's a
<v Speaker 1>ship ton of Atlantic forest left that looks like that
<v Speaker 1>hasn't been you know, chicken pocked up.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, yeah. Even Sam Paulo, the city of sam Paulo.
<v Speaker 2>The city was built over an area that was a
<v Speaker 2>transition between Seradu Arocaa forest and Atlantic forest with some
<v Speaker 2>highland grasslands in between. If you go to Herbaria and
<v Speaker 2>see one hundred one hundred century old speciess, you can
<v Speaker 2>tell that each neighborhood of paul we used to have
<v Speaker 2>a different Byome, I would say there are neighborhoods that
<v Speaker 2>were Atlantic forest. The other ones that are had are
<v Speaker 2>the ones that were high altitude grasslands. Yeah, and eating
<v Speaker 2>the uptact forests that remained in some parks nearby.
<v Speaker 1>I gotta get to this. There is this is yeah, south,
<v Speaker 1>once you go southwest to south Paulo, I'm going to
<v Speaker 1>put that on my laundry list of places to go.
<v Speaker 1>Once you get southwest to south, there's a ton. It
<v Speaker 1>looks like there's a ton of intact forest left. And
<v Speaker 1>then I definitely want to get down to those southern
<v Speaker 1>grasslands by Uruguay too.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. You should, you should come. You should come to
<v Speaker 2>to visit the Aracaa mixed forests in South Brazil. And
<v Speaker 2>there are some canyons that maybe I don't know if
<v Speaker 2>we have heard about, but we have very close to
<v Speaker 2>the to the shore. The seashuare one thousand meters high
<v Speaker 2>basalt canyons where we can have a lot of endemics
<v Speaker 2>grow in the growing in the canos. Then down by
<v Speaker 2>the coast is let's start again. Down by the coast,
<v Speaker 2>it's Atlantic rainforest. At the edge of the keos, it's
<v Speaker 2>rock rock vegetation nine degrees rocks, the plants of danisms.
<v Speaker 1>Did you say steep, Did you say basalt like it's volcanic.
<v Speaker 2>Basalt, Yes, volcanic, it's more more than it's almost seven
<v Speaker 2>or eight hundred meters of pure buzz out over sandstorm.
<v Speaker 2>So we have specifically Florida linked to the sandstone. Then
<v Speaker 2>some other species that grows on the bus out up
<v Speaker 2>when you go to from the steep area to the
<v Speaker 2>highland plateau, we have glod forests with a lot of
<v Speaker 2>gunera and many other alpining.
<v Speaker 1>You guys got gun that what species.
<v Speaker 2>Manicotta?
<v Speaker 1>Is that a big one?
<v Speaker 2>It's maybe I think it's the largest one.
<v Speaker 1>That's crazy. Yes, let me see that's a while.
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna I'm gonna say, yeah, I'm gonna send you
<v Speaker 2>some pictures. The most similar place to have a symbolce
<v Speaker 2>like this was in in another stick mountain with a
<v Speaker 2>lot of gunners together. And then we have this this
<v Speaker 2>cold vegetation that in many other species.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, it looks it looks Jesus, that is such
<v Speaker 1>a weird plant. That's such a weird lineage too. I
<v Speaker 1>mean it's like this long, lonely branch and the file
<v Speaker 1>of the ae sprum philogeny fucking nuts man. So okay,
<v Speaker 1>well bringing it back to the backwards, so let's clear
<v Speaker 1>it up with. So there you've got the genus back
<v Speaker 1>and then what subdivisions of taxonomy, like what's what's the
<v Speaker 1>next few times sub levels of taxonomy, subgenus or section.
<v Speaker 2>Both of them. So after after the last phylogenetric it
<v Speaker 2>was possible to propose NOD classification based on phylogenetic grounds.
<v Speaker 2>And the new current classification recognize seven subgenera and more
<v Speaker 2>than forty sections. And there are still some yes, and
<v Speaker 2>there are some species that are still missing to be
<v Speaker 2>placed in this classification. Some of them it was possible
<v Speaker 2>even without having the DNA based on morsology. But still
<v Speaker 2>there are some species that are really really odd that
<v Speaker 2>even with morphology, I'm not sure which which section do
<v Speaker 2>they belong or which is the closest lineage. All of
<v Speaker 2>them are placed in some sub genera, but several ones
<v Speaker 2>are still missing a section to be placed or confirmed
<v Speaker 2>as really monophyletic, I would say so. So there from
<v Speaker 2>the seven sub genera, all of them are found in
<v Speaker 2>this area I was telling you, in the basalt cliffs
<v Speaker 2>in south Brazil. And from from this core area we
<v Speaker 2>find other sixth of genera that extends through the mountains
<v Speaker 2>north up to the affront forest almost reaching by the estate.
<v Speaker 2>We have these subgenuous taconontoyages that's mostly from South and
<v Speaker 2>South America and the mountains of eastern Brazil. Then we
<v Speaker 2>have the sub genus Oblongifoli that are diversified in clode forests.
<v Speaker 2>So we can find this oblong Foli with one widespread
<v Speaker 2>species found almost almost in every high outstoode forest, jungas
<v Speaker 2>or world forest, in Atlantic forest, in Brazil, the Amazon
<v Speaker 2>and the Andes. That's bacca is oblong soiled. And then
<v Speaker 2>a lot of endemics that like bacca is, which is
<v Speaker 2>ida from the poolie baca is I've forgot the name.
<v Speaker 2>Baca is the automat that looks like a bonsai from
<v Speaker 2>the zoo. Many endemics that.
<v Speaker 1>Which one, which which one? Yeah? Which one is that
<v Speaker 1>the one that looks like a band. And when you
<v Speaker 1>say the pool is, you're I mean the most all
<v Speaker 1>of theapoois those weird sandstone there in the north of Brazil, right,
<v Speaker 1>you don't really get me in the south.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, no, that that the poois are all in the
<v Speaker 2>north of Brazil. But there are other other mountainous areas
<v Speaker 2>in the other regions of the country where we can
<v Speaker 2>find endemics of this section belong. So then we have
<v Speaker 2>the other, the other sub generous that we were talking
<v Speaker 2>before that has the back.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and.
<v Speaker 2>All the slur genus, one of these isss that once
<v Speaker 2>was also segregated as another genus pandemic to this.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, here's a wild I got to send you this.
<v Speaker 1>You got you got to identify this. I was just
<v Speaker 1>looking on in ned there's some guy Santiago Mile Hosts
<v Speaker 1>photographed something that looks very errochoid. Man. Yeah, if you
<v Speaker 1>you should. I noticed a lot of people don't use
<v Speaker 1>a naturalists down there. It just hasn't taken off yet. Maybe,
<v Speaker 1>but man, if you you should go through and just
<v Speaker 1>when you when you get time you can get a
<v Speaker 1>while hair up your ass or anything, just go through
<v Speaker 1>and identify because it'll help. So many people learn this
<v Speaker 1>thing has sessile leaves. Sessile leaves, they look kind of arochoid.
<v Speaker 1>It's got felty stems axillary flowers. It just it looks
<v Speaker 1>fucking cool. It's in where do you see it? Parky Parka.
<v Speaker 1>And now the oparados they say, hai, you know.
<v Speaker 2>This is the can Yes, this is the Kenyons area
<v Speaker 2>that I was talking to you just before talking about
<v Speaker 2>sub genera. So this is a sub genus that has
<v Speaker 2>only this species bakaries that was first described as the plums.
<v Speaker 2>And it's completely distinct from the all the other linages.
<v Speaker 1>How do you spell?
<v Speaker 2>What is it? Oh?
<v Speaker 1>Wagons?
<v Speaker 2>You know, in honor of a former German botanist who
<v Speaker 2>have done the studies on bakeries. And it's it's a
<v Speaker 2>beautiful species. I would like to have it at my
<v Speaker 2>at my home, at my Guardien hanging on by the walls.
<v Speaker 2>But then there is another sub genus that is foiling.
<v Speaker 2>This is one is interesting because the they have developed
<v Speaker 2>association with some Michael Michael Ris and co.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah No, that's yeah, yeah, yeah. What what species glamar makota?
<v Speaker 2>What Michael, I don't know, frankly, they don't know but
<v Speaker 2>they have association with some Macael Heis and Michael Hysant
<v Speaker 2>which no, sorry, sorry, it's not Michael Heiser. It's an
<v Speaker 2>indoor fike fung Gi. Oh oh wow, this is another
<v Speaker 2>crazy subject. We can Let's let me talk about the
<v Speaker 2>end of fifty funji. Once I was collaborating. We're collaborating
<v Speaker 2>with the mycologist. He's specialized on endosificy funjai, and I
<v Speaker 2>was sending him leaving samples of bakers for the isolation
<v Speaker 2>of Indo City fun Gi in baccar is hubrand ansious
<v Speaker 2>that is a winged species from southern Brazil. He was
<v Speaker 2>able to isolate more than seventy distinct endemic tunji.
<v Speaker 1>And where he is living in the roots or in
<v Speaker 1>the stems, or where.
<v Speaker 2>And stems and stamps inside the stems, and some of
<v Speaker 2>the compounds sometimes founding a giving species maybe are not
<v Speaker 2>from a plant origin and from the end of its sunjai.
<v Speaker 1>So there's funny. This is why you're living inside the
<v Speaker 1>stems of some of these species that you're starting.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and I was completely amazed when when he told
<v Speaker 2>me that one species was the the heck could record.
<v Speaker 2>He was registered with more than seventy species growing inside
<v Speaker 2>seventy species, yes, saving zero seven zero more than seventeen
<v Speaker 2>Jesus Christ.
<v Speaker 1>So what was he what was he doing just just
<v Speaker 1>just throwing DNA primers on there and seeing what what
<v Speaker 1>came out? Or what did he identify the species or no?
<v Speaker 2>Well, he get the sample, the living sample, and you know,
<v Speaker 2>like that microbiologist work of isolating spreading on a plate
<v Speaker 2>in a petri dish with some medium, distinct types of medium,
<v Speaker 2>and depending on each type of medium, different species will
<v Speaker 2>grow in that medium, all of them from the stems
<v Speaker 2>or leaves of the species. He told me that many
<v Speaker 2>of the genera and species he's finding are new to science.
<v Speaker 1>That's fucking crazy. That's wild. That's such an understudied area too.
<v Speaker 1>Is the whole, the whole you know, arena of endophetic
<v Speaker 1>fungi living inside of plants. You know the microbi Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>the plants basically have their own their own microbiome.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So so so this code defoil is of genus
<v Speaker 2>is interesting because they have endofitd the fungi that are toxic,
<v Speaker 2>they are toxic for cattle. They produce a substance that's
<v Speaker 2>called macrocyclic tricopesciens.
<v Speaker 1>Macro and tricopines what trico?
<v Speaker 2>What Tricho tissin e c And yes, trichotisiens and this
<v Speaker 2>compound it is really poisonous to cattle. I remember once
<v Speaker 2>I was in Argentina, were reviewing some species and it
<v Speaker 2>was written in one one of Baccaris calidiforia. That's the
<v Speaker 2>most wide spread species from this obigines having Oh this,
<v Speaker 2>this species has killed forty books forty what somethime forty cattle?
<v Speaker 2>Where was this?
<v Speaker 1>Where was this.
<v Speaker 2>In Argentina? Oh? Wow, Jesus, But this species it's found
<v Speaker 2>also in Reguire, Entia and Brazil. People say that even
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember which country have lost a battle because
<v Speaker 2>their animals during the war have fed on this plant.
<v Speaker 2>And what happens when when you when you raise the
<v Speaker 2>cattle in a grassland that has these species, the the
<v Speaker 2>calves they learn that's toxic. But if you move cattle
<v Speaker 2>from a place that does not have this plant to
<v Speaker 2>a place where it grows, the cattle doesn't know. They
<v Speaker 2>forage it and they are they just I think less
<v Speaker 2>than one day till one or two days they start
<v Speaker 2>to get bloated and die. So this genus is very
<v Speaker 2>interesting association and some research on these toxic compounds they
<v Speaker 2>over that's not produced by the plant itself. It's produced
<v Speaker 2>by the endos idiotic fungus that lives inside them. Promising
<v Speaker 2>not a plant, Yeah, not the plant. And it's very
<v Speaker 2>very promising compounds for a fighting cancer.
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, ship the candles, why are they It's being
<v Speaker 1>studied for cancer research currently.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, currently since the seventies. But still I am still
<v Speaker 2>finding new research on these compounds.
<v Speaker 1>Jesus man, that's grazy. So the phytal chemistry of this
<v Speaker 1>plant and also the funky that are found inside this
<v Speaker 1>genus is huge.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is one genus sub genus that have lost
<v Speaker 2>that type of tricon secreting the box. Maybe this was
<v Speaker 2>an alternative the group had to defend itself association associating
<v Speaker 2>with another fungus. And after after the five smaller sub genera,
<v Speaker 2>we have the two biggest ones that are the subgenerus
<v Speaker 2>Molina and SubGenius Bacaries. These two are the ones found
<v Speaker 2>in the United States in North America.
<v Speaker 1>General, what what's what gus SubGenius back Ris and SubGenius.
<v Speaker 2>What molina o l I m Alina that is on
<v Speaker 2>your ages that you have posted some days ago in
<v Speaker 2>your Instagram account belongs to Morphologically, it belongs to subgenus Molina.
<v Speaker 2>That's the same of another very common species, and that's
<v Speaker 2>maybe the most spread of the genus.
<v Speaker 1>That's yeah, it is very common.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a mule. I think it's the
<v Speaker 2>common name in the US.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a weird name for I saw I saw
<v Speaker 1>that the genus archebact rist. I think I saw that.
<v Speaker 1>That was what I saw that in the Dominican Republic.
<v Speaker 1>I'll send that to you. You can identify that. But
<v Speaker 1>what was the of that? That's got kind of a
<v Speaker 1>unique I mean they look like back ris flowers, but
<v Speaker 1>it looks slightly off. Yeah, yeah, it's do you know
<v Speaker 1>much about that?
<v Speaker 2>So, Archebacles was during a long time considered to be
<v Speaker 2>the likely sister genius of packeries, but since the add
<v Speaker 2>theent of the molecular biology and recent papers have shown
<v Speaker 2>that the sister genius of Archebacris, if I'm not wrong,
<v Speaker 2>it's plugged Ocalus that's completely morphologically h one hundred percent
<v Speaker 2>distinct from it. But but nowadays it's known that archebaceris
<v Speaker 2>is not close to baccaries, it's closer to pluggy OCAs.
<v Speaker 1>And the more, what's the sister genius, what's the sister
<v Speaker 1>genus to the back risk?
<v Speaker 2>So this is still an open question, but the most
<v Speaker 2>recent evidence is pointing out that could be Exostigmata. It's Exostigma.
<v Speaker 2>It's a genus of only two species found in the
<v Speaker 2>atlant grainforests, shad and pampas. They are understory herbs with
<v Speaker 2>they look like you know Emilia, the genus Emilia from nationally.
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.
<v Speaker 2>They look like Emilia, but in tr try diaster and
<v Speaker 2>with white flowers. So so.
<v Speaker 1>It originated in South America probably.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Yeah, it's obviously originated in South America and in
<v Speaker 2>southeastern Brazil. And then this this likely sister genus Exostigma
<v Speaker 2>has its herb that the two species are herbs. One
<v Speaker 2>is more common in the Atlantic rainforest and the other
<v Speaker 2>one in the Sajado And they are understory plants that
<v Speaker 2>you find in the woods along river streams, very small plants.
<v Speaker 2>If you take a look in their capitular and forests,
<v Speaker 2>it reminds of backeries, but still a bit different of backeries,
<v Speaker 2>and the former classifications considered backeries to be comprised by
<v Speaker 2>the subscribe Bacaridina to be comprised by Bakares, that segregated genera.
<v Speaker 2>That's why we were talking before and archie batteries. But
<v Speaker 2>nowadays the subscribe Bacardi is considered to comprise Baccaries, Exostigma,
<v Speaker 2>and other small genera that are found in southern South
<v Speaker 2>America like proto Coma and in lopsies as the opsis
<v Speaker 2>on the Felsia, a bunch of genera with two three,
<v Speaker 2>one five less intense species.
<v Speaker 1>So what what is that? The things that the things
<v Speaker 1>that make this genus so successful obviously are when dispersal
<v Speaker 1>rapid growth UH small seeds, producing an abundance of seeds,
<v Speaker 1>and probably that I would I would guess with those
<v Speaker 1>tough the trichombes UH producing that thick amount of wax
<v Speaker 1>which is anti orbivery, and also it probably helps a
<v Speaker 1>lot in dry environments as well.
<v Speaker 2>I think so, I think that, I think so this
<v Speaker 2>association with endo authentic microorganisms, the calls, I think they
<v Speaker 2>These two ecological interactions also have played an important role,
<v Speaker 2>but it's two fields of research that are completely neglected,
<v Speaker 2>neglected considering the evolutionary approach to Backeres, considering what we
<v Speaker 2>have done already in the chemistry and morphology these trichmbes
<v Speaker 2>and the chemistry that we have different chemical compounds in
<v Speaker 2>distinct some general sections, I think these points to to
<v Speaker 2>some key innovations that were important for the diversification of
<v Speaker 2>some glades.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I did not know that that wax was
<v Speaker 1>the result of those those tricombes. I thought it was
<v Speaker 1>just you know, like secreted by the epidermis. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>tricombs are part of the epidermis, but I thought it
<v Speaker 1>was just you know, I didn't know. I need to
<v Speaker 1>look that up, and I'm curious what those tricomb cells
<v Speaker 1>actually look like.
<v Speaker 2>They are really intriguing in returning to microscopy. The same
<v Speaker 2>for the flower the floor. It's because when you think
<v Speaker 2>about asteraci, it's all about the secondary exposition of poly
<v Speaker 2>you know, ye, yes, the secondary polin presentation. And when
<v Speaker 2>you look at the flowers of pacaties, you have in
<v Speaker 2>one side flowers that have specialized it on the slate side,
<v Speaker 2>and the staminate flowers that have specialized it on the
<v Speaker 2>pollen production. So if you see the semle heads, they
<v Speaker 2>have only like ovary APUs corolla and the pistol. Most
<v Speaker 2>ninety nine nine nine percent of the time they do
<v Speaker 2>not have steminoles. There is one special special that has steminoles.
<v Speaker 2>But when you go to the mayo plants, the functionally
<v Speaker 2>steminate plants, they still need that pistol to do the
<v Speaker 2>secondary presentation of the pollen. Right, and yeah, and then
<v Speaker 2>and then when you when you're seeing this and the
<v Speaker 2>electronic microscopy, they are beautiful. They have ravery developed sleeping hairs.
<v Speaker 1>It's it's very developed, very developed. What did you say
<v Speaker 1>that very developed? What the style that comes out for
<v Speaker 1>the secondary pound.
<v Speaker 2>Process the sleep sleeping hairs, sweeping tray coons, the tricons
<v Speaker 2>on the optics of the the pistol, the two a secondary.
<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, the hair is on that when
<v Speaker 1>it's so when it when it's emerging out of that
<v Speaker 1>fused answer to those hairs that pollen.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, so when you look at the staminique capital
<v Speaker 2>you can see very clearly that that that appropriate. How
<v Speaker 2>can I say not develop it style brains not developed
<v Speaker 2>to receive palling, but developed to expose the falling, so
<v Speaker 2>they push all the falling, sweeping them to out of
<v Speaker 2>the snoties and and they are their shape. It's really incredible.
<v Speaker 2>Under can you send me?
<v Speaker 1>Can you send me? Can you send me some pictures
<v Speaker 1>if you got any later or now? Whatever?
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I have, I'll send you They are amazing.
<v Speaker 1>That would be cool to put. Is the thumbnail for
<v Speaker 1>this podcast episode. If anybody is listening doesn't know what
<v Speaker 1>the hell we're talking about, you got to read about
<v Speaker 1>secondary palin press, which is common throughout many families in
<v Speaker 1>the order Asterelis, and is fucking wild. It's really it's
<v Speaker 1>a really cool phenomenon. But but yeah, I never thought
<v Speaker 1>about that when you've got because most asteraci are not dioecious,
<v Speaker 1>but when you've got a genus, it's primarily dioecious, you know,
<v Speaker 1>the but it still does secondary pollen presentation and it's
<v Speaker 1>still using you know, the essentially the female part, the
<v Speaker 1>female appendage of the flower to present pollen. You know,
<v Speaker 1>how how does that come out? Like how does that change?
<v Speaker 1>So that's yeah, that's cool. So what what what are
<v Speaker 1>the uh do the do the pistolate? Do the female
<v Speaker 1>flowers on a on a baccars a female backers plant?
<v Speaker 1>Do they have like what do the fused anther tubes
<v Speaker 1>look like are they just duds? Is there? No, they
<v Speaker 1>just don't produce pollen. Are they still there or what?
<v Speaker 2>So the fe male plants so the sameo capitla. They
<v Speaker 2>do not have.
<v Speaker 1>Aunters, They don't have any fused answer tube.
<v Speaker 2>They lack. Yeah, they like completely the stamins. But then
<v Speaker 2>when you go to the functionally male plants, they have
<v Speaker 2>the stamins well developed and they also have to keep
<v Speaker 2>the morphology of the semele part of the plant even
<v Speaker 2>though it's not fertile because of the secondary presentation.
<v Speaker 1>Right right, it's just it's presenting pound but it's not
<v Speaker 1>opening up like you know that forked ship like bisexual plant.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly exactly. It presents and it does not open up.
<v Speaker 1>But the male the standina plants don't have they don't
<v Speaker 1>have papos like elongated papas hairs, right because they don't
<v Speaker 1>need them. There's no wind dispersal of seeds going on.
<v Speaker 2>So they have they have purpose, but the purpose it's
<v Speaker 2>it's in a distinct morphology and when compared to the
<v Speaker 2>same ones. And anyway, they still do some defense to
<v Speaker 2>protect the capituum.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the hairs are the fence, but are they they're
<v Speaker 1>not as long or what like, if you look at
<v Speaker 1>a female, if you look at a female plant, you
<v Speaker 1>can tell from far away that it's a female, right
<v Speaker 1>in most cases.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, yeah, h And there are some famale plants
<v Speaker 2>that the purpose, as I told you before, it's the situs.
<v Speaker 2>But there are very few cases like this. And there
<v Speaker 2>are some groups or species where the purpose is very accrescent.
<v Speaker 2>After the flower is certilized, it develops a lot.
<v Speaker 1>It does. Sorry I say again, it's it's accrescent.
<v Speaker 2>After the flower is fertilized, the starts growing.
<v Speaker 1>Longer, longer, So that's when it starts maturing, right, So
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it happens after fertilization. Yeah, what, But I
<v Speaker 1>mean in general, our male or staminate flower heads they
<v Speaker 1>produce the papa's hairs aren't as big is a female.
<v Speaker 2>It's a small it's smaller and has a completely distinct
<v Speaker 2>morphology from the female ones. Yeah, and it does not develop,
<v Speaker 2>It does not increase in size. It's always the same size.
<v Speaker 2>But the female plants in several species, they develop after
<v Speaker 2>the fertilization.
<v Speaker 1>How many species, how many species in Brazil for instance,
<v Speaker 1>are used medicinally Do you.
<v Speaker 2>Know Oh, I don't know. Because we have one hundred
<v Speaker 2>and ninety species of packers that are native. I would
<v Speaker 2>say that that at least twenty of them I use
<v Speaker 2>it as far as I know, but doubtlessly maybe there
<v Speaker 2>are more that I use it and I still don't know.
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, go ahead, go ahead. Yes, the most common one is.
<v Speaker 2>The most common ones are that ones with prinkage stems
<v Speaker 2>that I told you so about four of them are
<v Speaker 2>commonly use it, but others are using because people sometimes
<v Speaker 2>mistakenly identify a less common species with a more common one.
<v Speaker 2>That there are other species that are called the herbacenta
<v Speaker 2>that means holy, holy plant, holy herb. People used to
<v Speaker 2>wash wash when they have like scars or like some
<v Speaker 2>injury in their skin to avoid infection, so they washed
<v Speaker 2>with antibiotic purpose.
<v Speaker 1>I would say, that's cool. They were they were making
<v Speaker 1>salves or like a tea or what.
<v Speaker 2>Like a t tea or or for drink, like a
<v Speaker 2>influsion a tea or two to wash to wash the
<v Speaker 2>the body. If you get any something hurts, it's like
<v Speaker 2>a tea the same. And I also found some uh,
<v Speaker 2>some information in specimen labels that one species is used
<v Speaker 2>in some African heritage revisions to like for for to
<v Speaker 2>take baths, to to to clean the body in the
<v Speaker 2>meaning of the spirit, or cleaned the body, you know,
<v Speaker 2>clean to to to clean your soul, I would say.
<v Speaker 2>And one intriguing species that I still want to get
<v Speaker 2>more to know about it is back at civil artist
<v Speaker 2>from the Sahad and it's a species that what is
<v Speaker 2>it ribal artist, ribal artist yea as the name say.
<v Speaker 2>It grows along streams in the Sahara vegentation and it's
<v Speaker 2>very smelly. But once I was reviewing some specimens and
<v Speaker 2>it was written on one specimen label that a person
<v Speaker 2>who collected that specimen considered it so pleasant they smell
<v Speaker 2>that he made a influsion, donk it and have a
<v Speaker 2>lot of hallucination.
<v Speaker 1>So so revularis it's not even an financialist man, Damn.
<v Speaker 2>No, it's not. It's not common one. And it's a beautiful,
<v Speaker 2>beautiful shrub. I just have seen it only once, and
<v Speaker 2>I was really curious about because the person did not
<v Speaker 2>say it was a good ra bad trip. It always
<v Speaker 2>had about illuccinations. That information is really important, but it
<v Speaker 2>was missing in the label and I would like to
<v Speaker 2>to get samples to give someone from phytochemistry to to
<v Speaker 2>study them because maybe it's from the plant, or maybe
<v Speaker 2>it could be from an endothethic fungi living in that
<v Speaker 2>So that's a question that I'm still looking for the answer.
<v Speaker 2>But it's the most sturdios I would say, use or
<v Speaker 2>consequence of drinking black beastee that I have seen.
<v Speaker 1>But phyto chemically. I mean, there seems there's a lot
<v Speaker 1>going on in this genus, which is that's pretty fucking
<v Speaker 1>curious and cool. So man, well thanks a lot for
<v Speaker 1>being down to do this. I really appreciate it. And uh, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I think I'm probably I know there's
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people that love that love this genus,
<v Speaker 1>like our West in California because you know, you get
<v Speaker 1>coyote bush piolaris. But I think I probably in my
<v Speaker 1>like in Texas, I'm one of the probably the only
<v Speaker 1>people that gets amped when I when I see it.
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think there's just because a lot of
<v Speaker 1>people just don't don't know it or know how cool
<v Speaker 1>it is. But I mean I've seen it everywhere I go.
<v Speaker 1>I'm Dominican Republic, you know, fucking Chile, Brazil. There's none
<v Speaker 1>that occur on the eastern side of the Atlantic. Are
<v Speaker 1>there were there any that made it over to Africa?
<v Speaker 2>Probably not, No, No, it was introduced in Europe, in
<v Speaker 2>Africa and Australia mostly the baccar is holimipholia from the
<v Speaker 2>United States was introduceive in the other continents as a
<v Speaker 2>garden plant or the mental plant, and then it spread
<v Speaker 2>in like Portugal, Spain, France.
<v Speaker 1>I bet it's invasive as hell over there because it's
<v Speaker 1>so successful in eastern North America. Yeah, but I mean
<v Speaker 1>I love that species, but it's you know, things got
<v Speaker 1>to stay in the ecosystem. They evolved and otherwise they
<v Speaker 1>can read havoc. But but well, thanks a lot man
<v Speaker 1>and hopefully hopefully you know, we can hang out in
<v Speaker 1>person someday. I need to get back to Brazil. That's
<v Speaker 1>probably one of my favorite places for BONDI. So yeah,
<v Speaker 1>if people want to read any of your papers, I
<v Speaker 1>suggest just going on research Gate or Google scholar Gustavo
<v Speaker 1>hiding h E I D E N. Is there any
<v Speaker 1>do you got a website or anything or an achro's
<v Speaker 1>account or.
<v Speaker 2>So. Most of my publications you can find one can
<v Speaker 2>can find in the research Gate. As you told or
<v Speaker 2>on Google scholar. I don't know if how have a
<v Speaker 2>personal website because I work on a company and we
<v Speaker 2>are required to not having like personal websites for our research. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how many papers? How many papers have you written?
<v Speaker 1>You've written quite a few.
<v Speaker 2>Huh in general in botany more than one hundred, but
<v Speaker 2>concerning baka is I don't know. Maybe thirty at least,
<v Speaker 2>that's it. Yeah, you have many I still have I
<v Speaker 2>would say twenty species to be described and have to
<v Speaker 2>manage time to do it. Plus yes, and to keep
<v Speaker 2>the phylogenetic work going on. Because the that the Trooper
<v Speaker 2>have publicity in twenty nineteen, it has about two hundred
<v Speaker 2>and fifty species sample and after that I got more.
<v Speaker 2>I would say seventy for other species to be sequenced.
<v Speaker 1>What's the total numbers?
<v Speaker 2>It's a lot of work to be done.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what's the total number of species? Genius? Five hundred? Probably,
<v Speaker 1>I mean estimated.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the accepted is the amount of accepted names currently
<v Speaker 2>is four hundred and forty four.
<v Speaker 1>But there's problem.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I would say that probably five hundred because there
<v Speaker 2>are some complexes of species that it's an ass when
<v Speaker 2>you when you go to that names and the synonyms.
<v Speaker 2>It's clear that there are more than one species in
<v Speaker 2>that complexes. And there are also these ones that are
<v Speaker 2>waiting for my dedication and my shelves. And there are
<v Speaker 2>many parts of the American continents that nobody never got
<v Speaker 2>there to collect. Several amount is to be still uh scored,
<v Speaker 2>to be still exported and collected. So I have effects
<v Speaker 2>to take it to the decay time to iron it
<v Speaker 2>really stood because I know that many rare or even
<v Speaker 2>maybe new species are hidden there. The same for her barrier.
<v Speaker 2>There are many a barrier that for decades with no
<v Speaker 2>one they are studying their Baccaris collections. So there are
<v Speaker 2>a lot of work to be done. Yeah. Well, also
<v Speaker 2>I have I'm doing all that collaboration with other people
<v Speaker 2>that are doing these other approaches on calls or on
<v Speaker 2>the phytochemistry, morph anatomy and also on taxonomy. Currently there
<v Speaker 2>is a PhD student from Uruguay. Her name is Victoria
<v Speaker 2>about yeah, and she is at the main fist with
<v Speaker 2>Jennifer Mendel. She is co supervised by not Visible in
<v Speaker 2>Calasilo along with Nique, and she's doing the phylogenomics. She's
<v Speaker 2>applying that composity ten sixty one kid the sequents, all
<v Speaker 2>the two species from the all the two all the
<v Speaker 2>more than fourty species belonging to the two sections that
<v Speaker 2>have winded stamps group for one of that for one
<v Speaker 2>of that section. The two sections one have very well
<v Speaker 2>resolved biologeny and the other one still has a not
<v Speaker 2>really good resolution. So I think that her work there
<v Speaker 2>in Antis with the Jennifer will bring even more exciting
<v Speaker 2>news about the evolution of winget stems in Backer.
<v Speaker 1>She's what you said, she's in Memphis.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, she's doing her PhD in monte Video, but currently
<v Speaker 2>now she's spending six months in Memphis doing the sequencing
<v Speaker 2>of the compulsity ten sixty one on the wing at
<v Speaker 2>backeries for like six months. I think she's coming back
<v Speaker 2>in February, I guess.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Man, I wonder what she's gonna have to say
<v Speaker 1>about the United States. It's a fucking it's a fucking
<v Speaker 1>zoo over here. But yeah, that's I mean, this genus
<v Speaker 1>is such a great model for speciation and for yeah,
<v Speaker 1>for key innovations, and just for dominating, you know, especially
<v Speaker 1>just diurbed environments. I mean again, that's where I see
<v Speaker 1>it really thriving, Where I am, and it's so nice
<v Speaker 1>to see a native quote weed, because what's a weed, right,
<v Speaker 1>It's just a plant that's not wanted where it's growing
<v Speaker 1>by people, which doesn't mean anything. But to see a
<v Speaker 1>native species that does so well as uh, it's you know,
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's always pleasant as opposed to any of
<v Speaker 1>the you know, the rowdy, terrible invasives that we tend
<v Speaker 1>to get here. So well, you're my back risk guy
<v Speaker 1>from here on out. So thank you so much for
<v Speaker 1>coming on. And uh yeah, man, I'll be staying in
<v Speaker 1>touch with you for sure, soank you.
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for inviting me for this very
<v Speaker 2>pleasant conversation. And I'm always happy when I receive any
<v Speaker 2>Bakaris messaging or picture or anything related to baccar Is,
<v Speaker 2>So please feel free to contact me. And you are
<v Speaker 2>invited to come here to visit southern Brazil. Oh, I'm
<v Speaker 2>coming Kartaorest or the southern portion of the front Greyfest.
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that you will be delighted with what you
<v Speaker 2>are going to find out.
<v Speaker 1>I'll fucking lose my mind down there, it would be
<v Speaker 1>so not Yeah, that's how I felt in in Minas Man.
<v Speaker 1>I was just over I was like intoxicated. It was
<v Speaker 1>so overwhelming and right anyway, all right, well, thanks so much, Gustavo.
<v Speaker 1>Everybody else have aggressed. Day, Go fuck us up by