TGI – Episode 421 “Cult Fiction” Part 2

00:00:19
Speaker 1: We had our party.

00:00:20
Speaker 2: We had the long awaited Pod meets World Boy meets World reunion party.

00:00:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:00:25
Speaker 4: We forgot to invite people though, and it was just the three of us there. It's really lame, but we.

00:00:30
Speaker 1: Talked a lot, didn't record any that we.

00:00:33
Speaker 3: Had a ton of people. How many people do soon? I were trying to figure it out. How many people do you think came? There?

00:00:38
Speaker 4: Was like at least seventy right, yeah.

00:00:39
Speaker 1: Right about seventy. Yeah.

00:00:41
Speaker 2: It was great.

00:00:42
Speaker 1: I mean we had invited everybody who's guest starred on Pod Meets World, and so that included writers and guest stars and a crew. It was amazing and people flew in for it and got to see some people haven't seen wow. I mean I guess I guess probably most everybody i'd seen during Girl Meets World at some point, but I hadn't.

00:01:06
Speaker 4: I had.

00:01:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of like a lot of these people, right, I mean, like Russell Digg, I know, since the day we ended Boy Meets World.

00:01:14
Speaker 4: I mean it was so good to see him years wow.

00:01:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, so anyone who's guested on Pod Meets World up until this point and also had I was obviously a part of Boy meets world was invited to this party. It was and families so they could bring significant others, they could bring their kids. It My sons were there, Indy was there. It was at Writer's house.

00:01:36
Speaker 1: He, Dusty, Dusty's son, and Indy were hanging out the whole party. I was like, I I'm.

00:01:43
Speaker 2: So glad that that happened. I walked will Is Dusty son. I walked Will through the house and introduced Indy and Corley Amy Snow's daughter to Will. And Corley and Indy were playing the piano and I was like interrupting them playing the piano to introduce them to Will. And it was very typical awkward nine year old conversation. And I was just trying to like, well, look at the book that Will brought is have you ever read this book Indian And He's like, oh no, I haven't read that one. Was like, oh, yeah, it's pretty cool. And I was like, Will do you play any instruments? I'm like literally, it felt like I was on a like setting up a friend date for toads. And eventually when I walked back into the house and they were sitting side by side looking through something together, I was like.

00:02:29
Speaker 1: Success, Yeah, there was a score, Yeah, thank you.

00:02:33
Speaker 3: I just actually being in front of Dusty now and to picture that that slim, little, tiny, redheaded kid who used to sit in the classroom with the now like six foot two built, Like, how are you Dusty?

00:02:47
Speaker 4: How did that happen?

00:02:48
Speaker 1: He's like I watched him like and say hi to like Tony that He's like, oh, it was in your class a lot. Yeah, Tony's like I can see Tony being like who He's like. I was skinny, I was tiny, I have red hair. He's like, you can't anymore.

00:03:00
Speaker 4: Was so funny.

00:03:02
Speaker 2: I know when I Manel had the same thing. Minell was like he was on our show. I was like, yes, you will know him when you see him. So I googled Dusty Gould and there was a picture of him behind you know, crimped haired to Panga and I showed him and Minel goes, why I remember that kid, that's grown up?

00:03:21
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I kept talking on like the day after the party. I was like just replaying everything and I was like, oh my god, this feels Alex and I were talking. I was like, it feels like a wedding. Yeah, you know, like where it goes by too fast. And I kept seeing people I wanted to talk to more and then like only got a couple of minutes here, a couple of minutes there, and so yeah, we have to do it again. Like that's my takeaway. It's like I needed to happen again next year, and I do have to.

00:03:43
Speaker 3: Tell one party story that you and I are still laughing about because it's hysterical.

00:03:47
Speaker 4: So of course we wanted to do it right.

00:03:49
Speaker 3: So we have an amazing taco guy who's out back cooking these incredible tacos for us, and we have a bartender comes up and he sets the entire bar up, and the bartender at one point, one point during the party, I'm just sitting there in front of the bar and I'm having a conversation out here.

00:04:06
Speaker 4: Excuse me, Will it's the bartender.

00:04:07
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, he goes, I also work with a chiropractor and if you'll let me, I can fix the roundness in your back.

00:04:14
Speaker 1: And I was like what what what round?

00:04:17
Speaker 4: He's like, well, you know your shoulders are hunched. I can fix that.

00:04:21
Speaker 3: I'm good, thanks, And I was like a insulted a little bit, and I was like, you're a bartender.

00:04:28
Speaker 4: I don't need you performing spinal you know.

00:04:31
Speaker 1: He slouchy McGee, I can fix you.

00:04:33
Speaker 2: He also writer, I don't know if you're aware, but he also offered to adjust alex broken backed. He's like, well, you know, I'm also I'm also an adjuster. I can adjust your back. And she was like, WHOA.

00:04:48
Speaker 4: Super nice guy, but a walk in lawsuit. My god, just I crack your back real quick.

00:04:54
Speaker 1: Let me get you a drunk and I'll crack your back. I'll fix it's.

00:04:59
Speaker 2: He'd be my new thing therapist. But I you know, I took it out on that one.

00:05:02
Speaker 4: That's great.

00:05:03
Speaker 1: So we got a session booked for this week.

00:05:06
Speaker 3: By the way, this was this was a big weekend for me as well because yesterday was my ten year no smoking anniversary. WOA congratulating and if I can freak you out even farther, I know, it's the first ten years of my life I haven't smoked a cigarette. I yeah, literally not even from zero to ten. This is the first ten years of my life. I haven't smoked a cigarets.

00:05:30
Speaker 1: Oh, so good for you, man.

00:05:31
Speaker 3: If you're still smoking out there, it can happen. And I know you attach it to everything you do. Where It's like, how can I drive without smoking a cigarette? How can I have a drink?

00:05:39
Speaker 5: That way?

00:05:39
Speaker 4: You can? You can quit. It's it's not easy, but it can be done. I'm just saying it happens.

00:05:43
Speaker 2: Good for you, man, You're proud of you. What a what an accomplishment?

00:05:47
Speaker 4: Yeah? Pretty happy? You know how I celebrated Huhgaret.

00:05:53
Speaker 2: Weird One more thing, Dad war Party, Bill and Bonnie were there.

00:06:00
Speaker 4: They braved the steps to get to because your stairs. Occasionally.

00:06:04
Speaker 3: We have another friend, Tara, one of our producers here, who has a broken ankle, who said, does Rider have staars going to his house?

00:06:10
Speaker 2: And we were like wow, when I was sixty three.

00:06:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like I was like, have you heard of Machu Picchu? Because it's similar.

00:06:18
Speaker 1: You know what people got there? We got People were kept saying to me, and like multiple people they were like, if I imagine what Rider's house would look like? And I was like, wow, I guess that's a really cool thing like that, I've created a space that feels like me and I guess even me back when I was a teenager. So I was like wow, in some ways, I guess dreams have come true, Like I've made my space exactly like reflective of me and my family, and it was it was a great like I don't know, it made me feel really good. It's just something I would never have thought. I'm like, really, is it that weird? Is my house that different?

00:06:53
Speaker 3: Like?

00:06:53
Speaker 4: No, No, it's a very rider.

00:06:54
Speaker 3: And people also gravitated and talked to me about which parts of you they know the best. So it's like some people were like, man, the books, all the books are just so writer.

00:07:04
Speaker 4: Other people were like, wow, the wood and the arches inside or so right.

00:07:07
Speaker 3: And then like east Ping was like that's where he does that's where he does podmeats world, right, I like that area right. So everybody like focused on the one part about you that I knew.

00:07:16
Speaker 4: It was very full.

00:07:17
Speaker 2: The thing that I also love is that the writer I knew as a teenager didn't believe it was possible to live his perfect life in southern California because it was only available to him in northern California. Yeah, so true, and writer the adult has literally created the perfect living environment for him in southern California. And it just makes me so proud of you.

00:07:44
Speaker 1: That's so good to hear. I think, Yeah, you're absolutely right, Like, yeah, I mean that that's that's that's I think what I take away is people. And because people have even said, like it looks like northern California. Yeah, like right, but yeah, you're right. I was able to come.

00:07:56
Speaker 2: To your friends, even your friends. You found Southern californ Fournia, people who are your vibe. And you know you don't have to live in a particular place because that's the only place your people are. You can find your people. Some message for anybody. You can find your people anywhere, and you can make the perfect life for you anywhere with just you know, being having a little ingenuity. So anyway, it was a wonderful party. We had such a good time.

00:08:23
Speaker 1: We look forward to doing it.

00:08:25
Speaker 2: I know it was so fast you look forward to doing it again. Yeah. So welcome to pod meets World. I'm Daniel Fishl, I'm rather or Strong, and I'm Wilfredell.

00:08:38
Speaker 6: Hey friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw and this is Kamila Luddington and we have a new podcast, call it what it Is. You may know us from Gracelawn Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life.

00:08:51
Speaker 7: And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. When one of us sends out the distress signal, the other one always answers the call big or small. We are there, and what does that look like?

00:09:04
Speaker 6: A thousand pep talks a million. I've got us some very urgent I'm coming.

00:09:08
Speaker 7: Overs laughter through tears, no judgment, problem solving over glasses of rose. Sometimes it takes tequila.

00:09:16
Speaker 2: Because I don't know.

00:09:17
Speaker 6: Let's face it, life can get even crazier than a season finale of Gray's Anatomy.

00:09:21
Speaker 7: And now here we are opening up the friendship circle to you.

00:09:25
Speaker 6: Someone's cheating, We've got you on that in laws or inlawe. Let's get into it, toxic friendship, air it out. We're on your side to help you with your concerns, talk about ours, and every once in a while, bring on an awesome guest to get their take on the things that you bring us.

00:09:42
Speaker 7: While we may be a license to advise, we're.

00:09:45
Speaker 2: Going to do it anyway.

00:09:46
Speaker 6: Listen to call it what it is. Starting June third on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:09:59
Speaker 4: Welcome Fact, dear listeners. Let's jump right back into episode two of cult fiction, or what we'd like to call Sean joins a cult.

00:10:07
Speaker 2: So then we're in the hospital waiting room. The Matthews family and Feenie are in the waiting room. As to Panga rushes in. She asks Cory how mister Turner is doing, and Corey says they're waiting to hear Tapanga looks around. Where's Sean? Corey has no clue to Pega says the two are like brothers. It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't be here, And just then Sean walks into the waiting room with mister Mack not far behind. Mac introduces himself to Alan and Amy and then gives a nod to his old foe, Phoenie. Phoene states, Mac, you don't belong here. Mister mac calmly states, one of my children invited me, and as always I'm here for him as well as any other child who calls for me. And this is a spot too, where I thought Sean wouldn't. How does Sean truly, how does Sean not go?

00:10:53
Speaker 1: Well?

00:10:54
Speaker 2: Sean, of all people, doesn't see himself as a child, doesn't.

00:10:58
Speaker 1: See it like a loves Peenie.

00:11:01
Speaker 4: And what.

00:11:03
Speaker 2: It does I think play into his decision. Later, I do, even though he doesn't say it, he says that the thing that made him really come to realize that it's not for him is that Turner's messages were the ones that he kept going back to. But I do think we see you in the background kind of wide eyed watching this confrontation happen, and I do think it becomes very clear to you that, like, what are the odds all of these people who I know in love are wrong and mister Mack is the one he's right. But anyway I did the child thing especially, I thought should really kind of throw Sean, and doesn't seem to. If anything, it just seems to make him feel included, which is all the Matthews have ever done for him, and that Turner's ever done for him. So he mister not doing anything different than all these other people who've loved them, have loved Sean have done.

00:11:48
Speaker 3: He also instantly turns on everybody that I mean, it's again is it all goes into what you were talking about before, Danielle, where I think if this had been a two part episode or there was some kind of build up to something, but they can it's the one off, it's like Sean's an alcoholic for one episode.

00:12:03
Speaker 1: You just kind of have been helpful to be specific about what it is that Shawn is getting. Like I think actually just getting a home is probably the easiest answer, right, Like he gets to live somewhere where he wakes up and there's the girls and his girlfriend and he's free to make out with her wherever he whenever. He was like if I was actually in a relationship with Sherry and that I was like allowed to be a more. Actually, this is to your point, Danielle, would be attracted to be an adult, to be allowed to, like you get independence.

00:12:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, you make your own decisions.

00:12:33
Speaker 1: You know, we don't manage you. You just get to You just come and go as you want from the center. That would have.

00:12:37
Speaker 2: Been so appealing to your judgment.

00:12:39
Speaker 4: Do you make good? You know, like that would have been great.

00:12:44
Speaker 2: That would have been a thing that because Sean's been saying that for four seasons, I'm a lone wolf. I can be out there no one. Why don't you guys you.

00:12:51
Speaker 1: Know, and tell me what to do.

00:12:52
Speaker 2: Don't tell me what to do. I can handle myself. So the fact that he's like my children and he's my child, is yeah Grange and Eric immediately stands up, I want to come back.

00:13:03
Speaker 4: Mister Mack a hand to the eager beaver and says.

00:13:06
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, all my children the no, not you, not everyone except you.

00:13:12
Speaker 2: Is so funny. Cory asks Sean what mister Mac is doing here, and Sean says he couldn't face this alone. Corey reminds him that one all of them are here, and two Sean seems more alone now than he ever knew. Mister Mac approaches phoene and says he forgives him for trying to shut the center down. Phoeney jumps up, He's fuming, you forgive me. Alan and Amy hold him back. Alan is furious Mac isn't dealing with gullible little kids here. It's time for him to take a hike back to con Land. Mister Mac looks at Sean. Do you see how judgmental these? And then Alan violently shoves mister Mac against the wall mid brainwashing. No, you see the judgment I made a long time ago is that Sean Hunter is the best friend that my kid will ever have, and I will kill to protect Sean Hunter from people like you.

00:14:03
Speaker 4: Kill just in his life. I will kill you. I will kill you. I mean, my god, this is.

00:14:09
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things to think about. Like when you watch things like this, it's like what within the context of any given story, like within a movie, within it, but especially within a TV show, Like what rationalizes violence?

00:14:22
Speaker 4: Right?

00:14:22
Speaker 1: When is it okay? And when is the audience supposed to feel satisfied by violence? Right? And in this case, we are we are supposed to feel that Alan is in the right to such a degree that we are celebrating, And like, to me, it's always like like I'm just so nonviolent, like I believe in like nonviolent movements and non violent protests and like the power of nonviolence that when I see somebody like this, I'm always like, well, let's let's piece this together, Like what if what if the tables returned? What if mister mack pushed Allan against a wall? The immediate response would be like, the violence itself is more proof of the we wackness of his argument. But because it's Allan doing it, which is the more predominant argument that we agree with, it's totally fine. In fact, it's actually a sign of Alan's passion that's good.

00:15:09
Speaker 2: That's like, I think there's another aspect to it, which is that you are you are in this show, and in the scene a kid who is we're supposed to believe is being preyed upon. And if I think about, you know, when I think it's acceptable to grab my child by the arm, Is it acceptable when they're just not listening to me. No, if they're running into oncoming traffic, yes, And so the idea that I could, that I could do something aggressive in order to save someone, it becomes more acceptable. And in this case, we're supposed to believe that the violence is Alan protecting a child from oncoming traffic essentially, and so the swallowing of him being violent is a little like well, miss, they've also told us mister Feeney's tried nonviolent means of getting it shut down, which haven't worked. We you know, and here he shows up to this thing like they want us to believe. We've tried other measures, it hasn't worked. We have to take this drastic step in order to protect this child.

00:16:23
Speaker 3: See, to me, the push is still not nearly as alarming or jarring to me as Alan literally saying I.

00:16:32
Speaker 2: Will kill you.

00:16:33
Speaker 4: Use the word kill. I will kill you is what I mean.

00:16:36
Speaker 3: That to me is way more, oh my god like than a push against a wall.

00:16:41
Speaker 1: I mean, that's two guys. It's like, it's the threat of violence. It's sane. I will physically do whatever it takes to and force stop you. Yeah, my belief. And to me, that is way more intense than anything mister mac has done. Sure, the idea that this family has such authority over a child who is not technically theirs, not his son, but that our show is on the side of Alan's actions is just super interesting and it's I mean, I think most people watching this feel good about what Alan's doing, Like those people, and I would just say, like, well, think about that, like why not? Why not think about like how our show has manipulated this situation in order to create a crisis. You know, it's it's all made up. So we've manufactured a series of crisis in order to have this emotionally satisfying moment. And the satisfaction of this moment is we're supposed to feel good about Alan's violence. It's supposed to feel right, and it's supposed to make us feel more comfortable and more protected. That's that is a series of choices that have created that situation, and I just think.

00:17:49
Speaker 3: Well, because at the end of the day, with the way that it's set up, he's fighting on the side of God.

00:17:54
Speaker 4: I mean, that's what it is.

00:17:55
Speaker 3: Is he He's fighting on the side of God and he's just pushed the devil against the wall.

00:17:59
Speaker 4: I mean, that's really what it is.

00:18:00
Speaker 2: Even if we take that aspect out of it, Alan is a father protecting a child. And what people the aspect that people love about this moment is that everyone has everyone would want to feel that their family would do anything to protect them, and a lot of kids did not grow up feeling that way. They actually felt like they themselves were put in harm's way because of their parents. And if that is the case, how much they would have loved another authority figure to step in and have given them that feeling of I will do anything to protect you. And that's what lands for people here. I don't think what people take away is the violence on the side of God versus the devil or or it's the feeling of Wow, to be so loved that someone would would risk jail time and would make such a declarative act of protect over me.

00:19:02
Speaker 3: But it's true, I think writers right though, the reason why we're like yes, Allan is because he's on the side of the righteous. I mean, that's truly what it's supposed to be is like it's it's good against evil in this moment.

00:19:14
Speaker 4: And the problem I have with the only problem I have with.

00:19:16
Speaker 3: It frankly because I'm I believe in nonviolent stuff too, but I do believe there's there's a time for physicality. The problem I have with it is they just because they have to truncate it so much, they haven't established enough what the huge downside of the center is, right, you know, That's what I would have liked one small phoene scene of I've lost kids to this or they leave their family, I mean, something to where I understand more where the violence comes from.

00:19:44
Speaker 2: Even had they pointed out more about the isolation they separate kids from the people who they separate kids from their family, and then they start not you know, they don't let them go anywhere without them, and then he shows up at the hospital.

00:19:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, they take their money. Thing like actually abusive to some degree. That's you know, right, It's it's hard to pinpoint. So I think the result is exactly what what Will said. It's it's it's becomes a battle of religions, it becomes a religious argument, and it's rational. It's the violence is satisfying in that it's telling telling an anti Christian person or anti Judeo Christian person that they need to set back violently.

00:20:30
Speaker 3: Although they never mentioned religion, that's the one that they say God, but they don't give you the path to God in the show.

00:20:35
Speaker 4: It's just do you believe in God? And then it's kind of.

00:20:38
Speaker 1: It's not neutral man.

00:20:40
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it depends. There's a lot of people that believe in God that don't believe in religion. I mean that believe that there's a higher power of some sort, but don't find any religion to get there.

00:20:50
Speaker 1: But this is a this is a religious argument.

00:20:53
Speaker 4: I mean it is there ever in the show? Have they ever have we ever done or can you think of any time past or future where the religion comes up? Yeah?

00:21:03
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we bring it up along.

00:21:04
Speaker 4: Really, what are the other time? I can't think of any What are the.

00:21:07
Speaker 1: Other time we have? I mean I think, I mean.

00:21:10
Speaker 3: There's Christmas episodes every year, so obviously we know that there's there probably some sort of, but I mean, I'm just trying to remember if there was ever actually a conversation.

00:21:19
Speaker 1: Well, I know, I'm pretty sure that when Josh is in the prenatal rights or neo natal care, there's yeah, there's I feel like there's religious stuff.

00:21:29
Speaker 4: Going on, and well, Michael is, yeah, I do.

00:21:35
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think there's several times that it's pretty explicit in the world of Boy Meets World.

00:21:40
Speaker 4: I forgot about that.

00:21:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So Amy grabs Alan he would love a lawsuit. Mister Mac adjusts his suit and calmly says, I think there's a lot of anger here, which gets a little bit of a laugh in the tension, and I don't feel that this is a healthy environment for Sean. Before Feoenie can speak, mister Mac cuts him off. I know you don't respect my philosophy, but for kids who feel lost and have an emptiness in their lives, I'm here to give them a sense of belonging. Poeney shouts that he cannot have Sean. Mister Mack says, well, that's up to Sean, and in any event, there are many more just like him. As he turns around to tell Sean it's time to go. There's no Sean in sight. To Panga and Corey are also gone, and then we find ourselves internals Turner's hospital room. The three of them are gathered around mister Turner's hospital bed. He's all scratched up and in traction. This could not have been fun for Tony.

00:22:31
Speaker 4: No, I didn't know.

00:22:34
Speaker 1: A bunch of makeup and just lie.

00:22:35
Speaker 4: I watched it twice too.

00:22:36
Speaker 3: In the second time, I just watched Tony to see me if there was any kind He never budges, never, but there's not a twitch in the man's face the entire time.

00:22:45
Speaker 4: It's amazing, so good.

00:22:47
Speaker 2: Sean nervously tells Corey he can't be in here. It's too intense. To Panga answers, but this is life and this is what's really happening right now. Sean admits I need mister Mack and to Penga shouts, no, he can't help you with this. What is the ma with you? Seawn is too worked up. He can't bear to look at Turner like this. He tries to rush out of the room, but Corey physically stops him and embraces him. This is a hug. This is when you hug somebody when you care about them and you want them to know that. He looks Sean in the eyes and tells him he can't leave here. He reminds him, Turner took care of you. He loves you and you love him.

00:23:20
Speaker 4: Is that real?

00:23:21
Speaker 2: Or are mister mac in the center reel. You can decide, but you cannot go. We can go to Panga and Corey leave, forcing Sean to face mister Turner. How could you screw up on your bike? I've never seen you screw up on anything. He reminds Turner he's the screw up, and he begs him not to do this to him. Turner is still alive, but not moving, so Sean's going to just talk to him. He admits that even when he was at the Center, it was all the things that John taught him that made him wonder if it was the right place for him or not. But Turner didn't teach him enough. And I love that. I love that, He says, your voice, your lessons were the things that kept being my counter arguments to what they were saying when they would, you know, tell me a thought I should have. The things you taught me were the things that were making me you know, go against some of those teachings. But I would have loved to have seen a little bit of that in Sean.

00:24:12
Speaker 4: It didn't.

00:24:13
Speaker 2: We never.

00:24:15
Speaker 1: But also it's weird because I'm arguing at this point that it's good that I had his voice in me arguing, so I'm already like bailing on the Center at this point exactly.

00:24:23
Speaker 2: That's my point is that up until this moment when you reveal that to him, it's the first time you've actually shown anybody that since the first time you visited the Center, in the first two minutes, that you've even had doubts.

00:24:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you had to get out as fast as you joined.

00:24:40
Speaker 4: So I think that's what it came down to.

00:24:43
Speaker 2: He got five minutes to be in.

00:24:46
Speaker 1: Just get this monologue going. It is like a full three minutes. No, it's like two minutes of just me. Oh man, that's a lot.

00:24:57
Speaker 2: Don't blow me off, John, don't blow me off off.

00:25:00
Speaker 1: God.

00:25:01
Speaker 2: For the first time in his life, he's asking God for something. He can't take Turner away from him yet. He begins to talk to God, saying he doesn't want to be empty inside anymore. He tears up as he grabs John's battered hand and John holds his hand back, marking the first movement we see from Turner and that, my friends, is the last time we see Tony until Girl Meets World.

00:25:23
Speaker 1: No, that's not sure. He comes back for the graduation episode.

00:25:26
Speaker 4: I think, oh, no reference to joke show and at his expense.

00:25:31
Speaker 3: It's not even like it's it's a funny joke, but it was like, damn, yeah, no, this is it.

00:25:36
Speaker 2: This is the last time museum, the day we dreaded has arrived.

00:25:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, this hurts, especially seeing the first those those first two scenes with him. How great Tony is, you know, it's I mean for me, not like it's overly dramatic, like I said about this whole episode in general, but he's so good as an actor, and we have such chemistry when we get into drama together. I'm you know, it makes me really sad having done the live shows and getting to kind of work with Tony again, likely on stage and we do or we do our bits and stuff. I just love him so much, obviously as a person, but also as an actor, like and we have such a rapport and such an ease and he's so good. So yeah, this makes me really sad. To think that this is this is it.

00:26:39
Speaker 2: This does to me very much feel like two different episodes. I feel like this, this maybe would have felt less melodramatic even if they kept everything the same, that at the end of the day, all of this cult stuff really ends up being about do you believe in God or do you believe in the cult? Even if they kept everything the same, if it had been split into a two parter, h I think it could have felt, you know, less.

00:27:11
Speaker 4: Dramatic, even though it is a dramatic subject.

00:27:14
Speaker 3: Because it's rushed, it's so rushed, so rushed, and it's such a it's two very hard punches all in one episode.

00:27:23
Speaker 2: So it does feel like two episodes to me. But you know, I still overall liked the episode. I mean, I I don't love the religious second half of it. I wish that it had been.

00:27:43
Speaker 4: A big deal.

00:27:44
Speaker 1: It's a big deal, big deal, I mean, you know, and I think that maybe a lot of you know, because I was trying to organize my thoughts and think about this, and like, you know, I probably a lot of people look at this as somewhat neutral, you know, like was being inducted into a system of thinking and then he got out of it. But as as an atheist, you know, I think I see it probably a little more. I just see it differently, you know, And I think it's it's kind of important to point out you've already done it, Danielle. It's not neutral at all. This is a this is a clear conversion narrative, you know. That's what the point of this is. It's in the classic tradition of conversion narratives. If Sean swaps one way of thinking for the correct spiritual system, you know, he's moving from the mac to a Judeo Christian god, you know. And I know Will you said, like that's neutral, but it's it's not because when Alan confronts him, he doesn't say, you know, you don't believe in Allah, you don't believe in Buddha, you know, you don't, Like Sean's not crying out for Zeus, right, Like, it's a very specific system. It's a Judeo Christian God, recognizably so. And I think, like, you know, for ninety percent of the people watching Americans, you know that you won't bat an eye about that, or I just think that maybe that's great. But for me, like as an individual and the irony here is that I'm the one actually going through the conversion as an actor, but you know, for me as an individual like who were you know, respects religiosity, but pretty firmly believes that public and political life should not be organized around it, or at least not you know, built around one one God, one religion. This kind of storytelling which really does push towards one, we don't towards one.

00:29:39
Speaker 2: I will say that we don't really know what the center believes either. We haven't really explained that the center is doesn't believe in God, but so right, but it's in opposition to God, right Apparently? Yeah, apparently, I mean that's what I mean. By the end of the episod, so we are Sean is converted to a Judeo Christian God like he has.

00:30:06
Speaker 3: See again, I think I I don't agree with that sentiment because I think he's converted to believing in God, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's Judeo Christian.

00:30:15
Speaker 4: I think they went to specifically.

00:30:18
Speaker 3: Not not label it in any way, shape or form. It's just believing now in God, in the Higher Power. They didn't go one way or another with it. I don't think they just said, do you believe in God? And now he believes.

00:30:29
Speaker 1: I don't think what that I mean, Like I said, it's not Allah, it's not it's not a hinder God, it's.

00:30:35
Speaker 4: Not all gods.

00:30:41
Speaker 1: Right, But I'm saying the word is not neutral, like we are talking about an American Judaeo Christian God, like that's what that's what Sean is crying out to. He's not crying out to a higher power and in a sort of neutral sense like there's.

00:30:55
Speaker 2: But I do think the word of God does represent we speak English, so we have we've said God rather than Allah. But I do think many religions believe in God, and then you can call it different things based on your So, yeah.

00:31:15
Speaker 1: Many religions believe in multiple gods, like yes, God, but zeroing in on one right definitely the correct It is right, and God is a personal being that you can like all within the traditions of Judeo Christian Like. To act otherwise is to me sophistry, Like it's pretty obvious what we're talking about, and you know it's it's Sean goes from an alternative system that we don't know.

00:31:43
Speaker 2: We don't know what it is.

00:31:44
Speaker 5: It's not the mainstream correct system that the Matthews Mathews everybody else sort of agrees on. And I think that there was an assumption of for most television viewing audience that that is we all know what that is is. You know, it's maybe not Christian, it's maybe not Jewish, but it's definitely Judeo Christian. Like that's that seems to me like a given.

00:32:08
Speaker 1: I don't.

00:32:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, then we're back in the hospital waiting room. Sean walks out of Turner's hospital room back into the waiting room where everyone is still huddled around. Corey asks how Turner's doing, and Sean knows he's going to be fine because he is a doctor beause he forgot me.

00:32:28
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, going back to the episode where I, uh.

00:32:32
Speaker 2: Forgot he delivers babies, he is actually a physician.

00:32:38
Speaker 1: Don't you miss that, Sean?

00:32:39
Speaker 4: Right now?

00:32:39
Speaker 1: Like you're just like talking about that shot. A little bit of that, just just a little thing, a bit of that, Sean, what would have been great as if Sean like, because I think the reality is that Sean is because he's so charismatic and likable, like he would have started his own cult or actually would have joined the cult and then become really good at it and like would have been out like converting younger kids.

00:33:01
Speaker 4: He's giving me a great idea. I may twenty five grand this week. This is awesome, right, like a little bit of chat Hunter and him.

00:33:08
Speaker 2: He could have been a great episode just but that could have been the two parter. So mister Mac approaches Sean, which really makes me wonder what this waiting room was like, considering the last time we saw him he was in a somewhat physical fight. He knows it's been a very stressful day for Sean, so he thinks he should come back to the center. Sean agrees he'd like to go back to the Center to grab his things and then if it's okay, he'd like to come back and stay with the Matthews. Amy softly smiles that's okay. Mister Mac opens his arms and tries to hug Sean to convince him otherwise, but Sean stops him. I see you right in front of me, and I hear what you have to say, and it's nothing. Sean admits, if he were an empty person who didn't have anything to believe in, he may go with him, because that would be easy. But he's done with easy, he's done with empty, and he's done with mister Mac. Mister Mack is disappointed, telling Sean they will always be there for him. Sewn agrees, he knows. As mister Mac walks out, Sean smiles at his loved ones. He made the right choice. And there it is. There's the cult episode.

00:34:13
Speaker 3: Sean joins a cult. They were right, They didn't need any more descriptions. What else is there, Geez, Sean joins a cult, Sean joys a cult, and Alan is a stone cold killer.

00:34:22
Speaker 4: He's a killer. My god.

00:34:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, it.

00:34:28
Speaker 4: Was a lot. It was a lot.

00:34:30
Speaker 1: I'm so curious what the contemporary reactions were like, and I am curious what most people, like most of our fans like, I can't wait to talk to the brum Meads world guys, Like I'm very curious how this goes. Yeah, like in the because it's yeah, it's just so much and it's so you know, uh, fourth season has been just a ride, like for the most part, really consistently great but also very funny. So for me, like the biggest sort of sin of the this episode is its lack of giant laughs, Like it would be great to just have a little bit more humor. Yeah, personally, yeah, but I'm so curious where most people sort of fall on this one.

00:35:10
Speaker 3: Was this?

00:35:11
Speaker 4: Do you do either of you remember? Was this an audience episode?

00:35:15
Speaker 1: I don't know. God, I'm assuming so I think I feel like I felt the pressure of that hospital scene knowing that there was also a live audience.

00:35:23
Speaker 4: Like, wow, Oh you think you did that in front of the audience?

00:35:25
Speaker 3: Wow?

00:35:26
Speaker 1: Because I remember, well, I remember where it was on this say. It was actually in front of they built it in front of the school or in front of the god it was it was right next to the backyard, so like it. It was right in front I remember. I think the reason I remember it is because, you know, I could feel the pressure of having to deliver this whole monologue in front it.

00:35:49
Speaker 2: What a feeling. Well, please join us for our next episode, which will be season four, episode twenty two, learning to Fly. It's the season finale that originally aired May nineteen ninety seven.

00:36:02
Speaker 1: Uh.

00:36:02
Speaker 2: Thank you all for joining us for this episode of Podmeets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod meets World Show. You can send us your emails podmets Worldshow at gmail dot com, and we have merch?

00:36:13
Speaker 4: Are you centered? Do you enjoy weird sex Monday? Then buy some Sean Hunter merch. Hail to the King, Yeah right?

00:36:23
Speaker 3: Uh.

00:36:23
Speaker 2: Podmeetsworldshow dot com writer send us out.

00:36:27
Speaker 1: We love you all, pod dismissed. Podmeets World is an iHeart podcast producer hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfridell and Ryder Strong executive producers, Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tarasubasch producer, Maddie Moore engineer and boy meets World Superman Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at podmets World Show or email us at Podmeats World Show at gmail dot com