282 | CCPT Purism: From Rogers to Axline and the Eight Principles That Shaped the Child-Centered Play Therapy Model

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you

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get a masterclass in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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we are continuing in our CCPT purism series.

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And we're going to dive into

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how we went from Rogers

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into what we know today as CCPT,

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which is through Virginia Axline.

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But before we get into that,

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I want to give a little shout out.

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I just yesterday graduated another group

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out of the Play Therapy Professional program

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and

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so excited for them,

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their confidence and their communication.

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And their efficacy just wanted to say congratulations

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to my newest Play Therapy Professional graduates,

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and there's just been such a transformation to watch and it's been such a joy,

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and they're all saying that they want to keep going for another 6 months.

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So

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I don't know what that's gonna look like,

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but anyway,

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congrats to y'all and.

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It's

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one of my favorite things.

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I,

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I have a lot of favorite things these days,

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but

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podcasting is definitely one of them,

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and then the Collective is one of them,

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and then my coaching groups,

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so

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excited for

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new graduates.

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OK,

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so last episode,

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we

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looked at

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the core conditions

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and the actualizing tendency.

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And we looked at how that crossed over.

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And

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we've been following Roger's influence,

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and now we're moving into Axline.

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So here's what you need to know.

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Axline

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was the pioneer who brought Roger's person-centered play therapy

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into the playroom.

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And essentially gave us

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the earliest version of what we know now

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as CCPT.

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So let's go back to look at her backstory,

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and then we'll look at how

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this actually practically speaking,

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took place.

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So she actually worked closely with Rogers at Ohio State.

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And then at the University of Chicago as well.

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And she had an interesting background.

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She came from education

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and psychology.

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I know many of you all have a background in education,

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so that's actually a pretty consistent path,

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but it uniquely positioned her.

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To take Roger's work

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and modify it for children.

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She published two landmark works,

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which I own both,

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so should you.

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They're out of print,

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but you can get them used.

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She published Play Therapy

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in 1947.

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Which,

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by the way,

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just pause there,

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that's

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2 years after the World War.

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And

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we're looking at a really interesting scenario for her to have published that in 47.

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And then she published Dibs In Search of Self in '64.

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And

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Dibs is,

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gosh,

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a groundbreaking book.

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Every play therapist should read it.

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It,

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Dibs was a real child,

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and it looked at

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specific sessions

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with Dibs.

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As an example of what CCPT looks like

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in a playroom.

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That book

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changed my life legitimately.

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I,

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I still

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look at it every once in a while.

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That

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is an incredible book to own and to read.

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Probably once a year.

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You should probably read it every year.

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OK,

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so then.

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Axline took

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person centered therapy approaches.

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And

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created 8 principles.

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Of non-directive play therapy.

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So this is originally published in her 1947 work.

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And essentially,

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here's what you need to know about these principles.

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I actually encourage you to memorize them,

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but if you don't memorize them,

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here's what you need to know about their function.

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It

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explained

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how a therapist shows up

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in the playroom.

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That's really what these 8 principles are all about.

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How a play therapist shows up

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and how

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they

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participate in the relationship.

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It's not about what we do,

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it's about how we show up and pour into the relationship.

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So I'm going to quickly go through each of the 8.

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You should

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know them and memorize them yourself.

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But we'll hit highlights.

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So the first,

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the

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therapist must develop a warm,

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friendly relationship with the child,

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in which good rapport established as soon as possible.

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OK,

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why does this matter?

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Because this is essentially the

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therapeutic relationship

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as the primary vehicle for change,

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as Rogers presented.

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And the play therapist offers the warm presence

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where the child feels emotionally safe.

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That that's as simple as it can be.

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We're just creating a relationship where the child feels safe.

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They'll naturally self-actualize.

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It all begins with connection.

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OK,

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#2,

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the therapist accepts the child exactly as they are.

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This is essentially unconditional positive regard from Rogers.

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The therapist shows up

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and

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Accepts every bit of the child.

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The child's behaviors,

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the child's emotions,

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the child's personality,

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doesn't matter if it's aggressive or whatever.

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The,

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the child comes,

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the therapist accepts the child,

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no matter what.

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This allows the child to be authentic.

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And again,

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if the child feels safe and can be authentic,

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the child will naturally self-actualize.

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OK,

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#3,

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the therapist establishes a feeling of permissiveness in the relationship.

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So that the child feels free to express their feelings completely.

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Kids will only express

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how they really feel

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if they know it's safe to do so.

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And so basically what's happening in this one,

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the play therapist communicates both verbally and nonverbally.

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You can feel however you need to feel in here.

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And

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here's where we get

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a lot of barbs thrown at us.

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This does not mean

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that chaos ensues in the playroom.

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It means emotional freedom.

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Child,

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any feeling is valid.

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All feelings are valid.

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The child can feel anything.

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But there are relational boundaries.

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In the way of limits.

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But it does not mean chaos.

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It does not mean child gets to do whatever child wants.

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It does not mean that there are no expectations.

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None of those are true.

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It just means

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that we allow

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for the child to feel

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anything that they need to feel

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because permissiveness is a principle.

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Fourth,

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the therapist is alert to recognize the feelings the child is expressing.

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And reflects those feelings back to the child in such

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a way that the child gains insight into their behavior.

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This is essentially

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empathy.

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Empathic understanding

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practically applied.

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We

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track.

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Behavior,

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we reflect

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content,

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but we also reflect feelings.

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And what that does is it provides meaning

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to the child

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that they may not have words for that feeling yet.

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And

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we do not interpret what's going on.

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But we just

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reflectively respond

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in such a way that the child gains clarity on their emotions

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and they better understand themselves.

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OK,

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5th,

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the therapist maintains a deep respect for the child's ability to

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solve their own problems if given an opportunity to do so.

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The responsibility to make choices and institute change is the child's.

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This is essentially

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communicating

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that the child will self-actualize.

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And it

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believes

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that the child has the capacity for growth.

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Therefore,

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we'd resist the urge to solve problems.

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We resist the urge to teach coping skills.

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We resist the urge to redirect play.

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We trust the process.

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And we resist adult-driven

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goals.

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Why?

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Because let's go back to the principle.

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We maintain a deep respect for the child's ability to solve their own problems.

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We don't need to solve the problems for the child.

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This is going straight back to Rogers

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when we talked about

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the psychoanalysts and the behaviorists.

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We just get out of the way

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and the child does what the child needs to do.

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#6,

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the therapist does not attempt to direct

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the child's actions or conversation in any manner.

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The child leads the way the therapist follows.

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The defining feature

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of CCPT

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is being non-directive.

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We don't ask leading questions,

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we don't suggest

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what the child should do.

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We don't

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nudge them in a specific direction.

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Why?

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Because.

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We witness what's going on,

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we support what's going on.

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But we don't lead.

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The child is the expert on their own inner world.

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So we don't attempt to do anything

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other than witness and support

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the work that's being done.

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#7,

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this is,

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this is the big one.

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The therapist does not hurry the therapy along.

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It is a gradual process and it is recognized as such by the therapist.

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All right,

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we all know what it's like.

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We all feel pressure

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for progress or outcomes.

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Sometimes from within,

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sometimes from without,

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from stakeholders,

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from teachers,

288
00:10:47,369 --> 00:10:48,159
from parents,

289
00:10:48,450 --> 00:10:50,080
from pediatricians,

290
00:10:50,330 --> 00:10:51,599
from judges,

291
00:10:51,809 --> 00:10:52,880
from ourselves,

292
00:10:53,090 --> 00:10:53,969
from whoever.

293
00:10:54,289 --> 00:10:55,440
We all have

294
00:10:55,650 --> 00:10:56,719
this pressure

295
00:10:57,250 --> 00:10:58,679
for progress and outcomes.

296
00:11:00,270 --> 00:11:02,669
And this principle counters

297
00:11:02,940 --> 00:11:03,880
the urge

298
00:11:04,380 --> 00:11:06,140
to do something about that pressure.

299
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:12,270
Essentially what we're doing is trusting the child's internal timeline.

300
00:11:13,429 --> 00:11:15,479
And we can't measure progress

301
00:11:15,849 --> 00:11:17,289
by external standards.

302
00:11:18,619 --> 00:11:21,650
Because healing happens in the child's time.

303
00:11:23,140 --> 00:11:23,890
So therefore,

304
00:11:23,950 --> 00:11:25,729
we have to honor the process.

305
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:28,359
And finally,

306
00:11:28,690 --> 00:11:31,369
therapy is limited only by the boundaries required

307
00:11:31,369 --> 00:11:33,809
for the child to feel free and protected.

308
00:11:34,369 --> 00:11:38,359
The child's freedom is restricted only when necessary to protect the child,

309
00:11:38,369 --> 00:11:38,900
others,

310
00:11:39,010 --> 00:11:40,280
or the physical environment.

311
00:11:42,010 --> 00:11:44,119
Structure is important,

312
00:11:44,609 --> 00:11:46,320
safety is important.

313
00:11:46,969 --> 00:11:48,570
Security is important.

314
00:11:50,020 --> 00:11:50,479
But

315
00:11:51,619 --> 00:11:52,729
It must be

316
00:11:53,219 --> 00:11:54,169
minimal,

317
00:11:54,460 --> 00:11:55,929
it must be predictable.

318
00:11:56,780 --> 00:11:58,150
It must be respectful.

319
00:12:00,859 --> 00:12:01,549
And

320
00:12:02,309 --> 00:12:03,619
We understand

321
00:12:03,950 --> 00:12:07,340
that there is only safety and security and structure.

322
00:12:08,289 --> 00:12:10,719
Within boundaries in a relationship.

323
00:12:12,010 --> 00:12:12,619
But

324
00:12:12,750 --> 00:12:13,739
we also know.

325
00:12:14,539 --> 00:12:15,049
That

326
00:12:15,270 --> 00:12:17,869
those boundaries need to be minimal,

327
00:12:18,219 --> 00:12:19,010
predictable,

328
00:12:19,219 --> 00:12:20,130
and respectful.

329
00:12:22,369 --> 00:12:23,090
There's

330
00:12:23,289 --> 00:12:24,419
the fine line.

331
00:12:24,809 --> 00:12:25,919
There's the tightrope

332
00:12:26,130 --> 00:12:27,650
that we find ourselves walking.

333
00:12:28,989 --> 00:12:32,500
Because limits are set only when they're absolutely necessary

334
00:12:32,830 --> 00:12:34,429
in a consistent format.

335
00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:35,799
Right?

336
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:36,809
3 steps.

337
00:12:37,260 --> 00:12:38,250
Reflect the feeling,

338
00:12:38,530 --> 00:12:40,570
acknowledge what the limit is neutrally,

339
00:12:40,739 --> 00:12:42,169
and then provide choices.

340
00:12:42,340 --> 00:12:42,659
OK,

341
00:12:42,820 --> 00:12:46,969
we know there needs to be structure and safety and security.

342
00:12:47,419 --> 00:12:49,609
We know that sometimes limits are necessary.

343
00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:51,630
But they're minimal,

344
00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:52,270
predictable,

345
00:12:52,309 --> 00:12:53,219
and respectful.

346
00:12:53,469 --> 00:12:54,000
Why?

347
00:12:54,599 --> 00:12:55,020
Because

348
00:12:55,309 --> 00:12:56,429
the therapeutic environment,

349
00:12:56,729 --> 00:12:57,750
specifically the playroom.

350
00:12:58,919 --> 00:13:02,890
It is always intended to be emotionally permissive.

351
00:13:04,059 --> 00:13:07,750
It's always intended to be behaviorally permissive.

352
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,390
While being

353
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,229
physically and relationally safe.

354
00:13:15,340 --> 00:13:16,119
I'm gonna say that again,

355
00:13:16,239 --> 00:13:17,070
because that's,

356
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:18,549
that's pretty much

357
00:13:19,039 --> 00:13:20,150
a mantra.

358
00:13:21,650 --> 00:13:22,919
So the playroom

359
00:13:23,330 --> 00:13:26,559
is meant to be emotionally permissive

360
00:13:26,969 --> 00:13:28,739
and behaviorally permissive.

361
00:13:30,669 --> 00:13:34,380
While being physically safe and relationally safe.

362
00:13:36,059 --> 00:13:37,960
And that's what the 8th principle is about.

363
00:13:38,130 --> 00:13:40,520
It's about when we need to set limits and how.

364
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:42,510
All right,

365
00:13:42,750 --> 00:13:45,630
so I told you that was a very brief cliffs notes,

366
00:13:45,830 --> 00:13:46,190
but.

367
00:13:47,489 --> 00:13:49,080
Let's be really clear

368
00:13:49,330 --> 00:13:51,130
on why these eight principles matter.

369
00:13:51,330 --> 00:13:53,119
Not only do they serve as

370
00:13:53,369 --> 00:13:55,409
our guide rails of how to show up.

371
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,679
But these are not techniques.

372
00:13:59,619 --> 00:13:59,869
I,

373
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,229
I want that to be abundantly clear.

374
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,030
These are not techniques.

375
00:14:05,099 --> 00:14:06,989
She was defining

376
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:08,789
the way of being

377
00:14:09,239 --> 00:14:09,969
with children.

378
00:14:11,099 --> 00:14:13,500
That echoed Roger's principles.

379
00:14:15,070 --> 00:14:17,489
So she took Roger's principles

380
00:14:17,770 --> 00:14:20,179
and defined the way of being

381
00:14:20,570 --> 00:14:21,880
in relation to children.

382
00:14:23,119 --> 00:14:27,609
Just like Rogers defined the way of being with an adult client

383
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,229
in the person centered approach.

384
00:14:30,599 --> 00:14:33,299
And these 8 principles essentially

385
00:14:33,830 --> 00:14:35,179
became the foundation

386
00:14:35,469 --> 00:14:37,460
for CCPT as we know it today.

387
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,010
And here's

388
00:14:40,299 --> 00:14:42,330
in summary what these 8 principles do.

389
00:14:43,950 --> 00:14:46,070
They challenge us as play therapists.

390
00:14:47,359 --> 00:14:49,400
To first trust the child.

391
00:14:51,570 --> 00:14:52,049
Second,

392
00:14:53,070 --> 00:14:54,419
To let go of control.

393
00:14:55,260 --> 00:14:55,690
Yikes,

394
00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:56,559
that's a hard one.

395
00:14:57,809 --> 00:14:58,880
And 3rd,

396
00:14:59,239 --> 00:15:01,200
to show up with presence

397
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:02,630
instead of agenda.

398
00:15:04,849 --> 00:15:06,320
Those are the three

399
00:15:06,719 --> 00:15:07,450
challenges.

400
00:15:08,659 --> 00:15:11,609
That comes straight out of those eight principles

401
00:15:11,940 --> 00:15:13,210
we trust the child,

402
00:15:13,580 --> 00:15:15,200
we let go of control,

403
00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:18,090
and we show up with presence instead of agenda.

404
00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:22,950
She stayed so true

405
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:24,840
to Roger's theory.

406
00:15:26,580 --> 00:15:27,940
But translated it

407
00:15:28,179 --> 00:15:29,650
into the world of children.

408
00:15:30,830 --> 00:15:31,750
And

409
00:15:32,020 --> 00:15:33,950
honored the fact that children will play

410
00:15:34,380 --> 00:15:35,260
rather than speak.

411
00:15:37,570 --> 00:15:38,380
So,

412
00:15:38,609 --> 00:15:40,200
what does this mean in

413
00:15:40,330 --> 00:15:43,039
the grand scheme other than we now have

414
00:15:43,369 --> 00:15:44,440
a sense of

415
00:15:44,690 --> 00:15:46,359
the way to be with children.

416
00:15:47,309 --> 00:15:47,849
And

417
00:15:48,429 --> 00:15:50,619
To meet those challenges that we just talked about,

418
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:51,140
but

419
00:15:51,309 --> 00:15:52,619
you have to keep in mind,

420
00:15:53,429 --> 00:15:54,460
before Axline,

421
00:15:54,549 --> 00:15:55,750
similarly to Rogers,

422
00:15:55,789 --> 00:15:55,989
right?

423
00:15:56,010 --> 00:15:58,940
We looked at psychoanalytic and behaviorists,

424
00:15:59,630 --> 00:16:01,679
that was the standard before Rogers.

425
00:16:01,750 --> 00:16:01,869
Well,

426
00:16:01,989 --> 00:16:02,739
similarly,

427
00:16:03,070 --> 00:16:05,000
child therapy before Axline.

428
00:16:05,989 --> 00:16:08,340
Was either psychoanalytic or behavioral,

429
00:16:08,950 --> 00:16:09,979
but in either case,

430
00:16:10,030 --> 00:16:11,619
they were both highly directive.

431
00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:16,239
So Axline shifts the focus to the child's inner world,

432
00:16:16,330 --> 00:16:19,849
just like Rogers shifted the focus to the adult's inner world.

433
00:16:20,979 --> 00:16:21,469
But

434
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:22,390
uniquely,

435
00:16:22,609 --> 00:16:24,229
Axline said play

436
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,750
is the medium for growth and healing for children.

437
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:28,890
And she

438
00:16:29,270 --> 00:16:31,780
fully and wholly trusted and believed

439
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:35,900
that what Roger said about adults applied equally to children.

440
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:37,539
And

441
00:16:37,789 --> 00:16:38,010
what,

442
00:16:38,119 --> 00:16:41,880
what did Rogers put out into the world that was so groundbreaking and

443
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:42,940
such a shift?

444
00:16:42,950 --> 00:16:43,349
Well,

445
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:45,640
That people need acceptance,

446
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:46,520
not fixing.

447
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,210
And they grow when they feel safe

448
00:16:51,539 --> 00:16:52,049
and

449
00:16:52,340 --> 00:16:53,659
seen and understood.

450
00:16:55,109 --> 00:16:57,690
And those are true for children as well.

451
00:16:58,059 --> 00:16:59,020
They don't need to be fixed,

452
00:16:59,099 --> 00:17:00,159
they need acceptance.

453
00:17:00,969 --> 00:17:02,429
And they will naturally grow,

454
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,270
become a better version of themselves

455
00:17:04,598 --> 00:17:06,550
if they feel safe in the relationship,

456
00:17:06,618 --> 00:17:07,890
if they feel seen by the

457
00:17:08,170 --> 00:17:08,979
therapist,

458
00:17:09,098 --> 00:17:10,439
and if they feel understood.

459
00:17:12,108 --> 00:17:12,589
So

460
00:17:13,930 --> 00:17:15,339
Axline's legacy.

461
00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:22,239
Essentially laid the groundwork for Landreth and other pioneers to follow.

462
00:17:23,598 --> 00:17:25,689
Her 8 principles are still taught today.

463
00:17:26,489 --> 00:17:27,368
Consistently

464
00:17:28,808 --> 00:17:32,798
Dibs is often the first book that CCPT therapists read.

465
00:17:32,928 --> 00:17:33,649
It was for me.

466
00:17:33,769 --> 00:17:37,038
It was required coursework in my graduate certificate program.

467
00:17:38,329 --> 00:17:39,020
And

468
00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:40,359
it is,

469
00:17:40,650 --> 00:17:45,719
it stands the test of time because it is so helpful to understand what it looks like

470
00:17:46,089 --> 00:17:49,729
with a case that you actually get to follow from beginning to end.

471
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:51,770
But here's the thing,

472
00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:53,939
her work is often misunderstood.

473
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:54,910
I,

474
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:55,479
I want

475
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,359
to pause on this for a second.

476
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,880
A lot of times therapists will read Dibs.

477
00:18:01,699 --> 00:18:03,250
And and see

478
00:18:03,489 --> 00:18:05,760
it as an opportunity to take techniques away.

479
00:18:07,890 --> 00:18:08,729
But here's the thing,

480
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,719
if you take techniques away

481
00:18:11,250 --> 00:18:12,520
without embracing

482
00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:15,719
the non-directive child-centered,

483
00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:16,880
child-led

484
00:18:17,089 --> 00:18:18,400
philosophy behind it.

485
00:18:19,660 --> 00:18:20,219
Then

486
00:18:20,619 --> 00:18:21,680
you're just eclectic.

487
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:27,109
And Axline was not creating a toolbox.

488
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,709
That's not what her work was about.

489
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:31,989
She laid a foundation

490
00:18:32,239 --> 00:18:34,589
for a way of being with children.

491
00:18:35,020 --> 00:18:36,270
We talk about that all the time.

492
00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:37,660
This is a way of being.

493
00:18:37,959 --> 00:18:38,920
We don't do this,

494
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:39,839
we are this.

495
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:42,250
This is a way of being.

496
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:43,670
This way of being

497
00:18:44,209 --> 00:18:45,069
requires

498
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:46,489
presence.

499
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,439
It requires trust.

500
00:18:49,199 --> 00:18:50,800
It requires humility.

501
00:18:52,219 --> 00:18:54,239
That's why CCPT isn't for everyone.

502
00:18:56,459 --> 00:18:58,459
It requires things of us,

503
00:18:58,790 --> 00:19:01,420
and we have to be able to give those things.

504
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:03,670
So,

505
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:04,989
here's the takeaway.

506
00:19:06,069 --> 00:19:09,270
You're not just using Axline's techniques.

507
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,560
When you are fully CCPT

508
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,319
you are continuing Axline's legacy.

509
00:19:17,229 --> 00:19:18,300
If you are

510
00:19:18,430 --> 00:19:19,430
CCPT.

511
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,430
You need to understand Axline's

512
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:24,310
influence,

513
00:19:24,479 --> 00:19:25,790
where this model came from.

514
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:27,550
Why

515
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,920
the non-directive component matters.

516
00:19:31,180 --> 00:19:32,829
And resist the temptation

517
00:19:33,199 --> 00:19:36,349
to guide or interpret or analyze what's going on.

518
00:19:36,910 --> 00:19:37,380
Why?

519
00:19:37,790 --> 00:19:40,979
Because everything about Axline's work trusted the child.

520
00:19:41,770 --> 00:19:42,670
And we should too.

521
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:44,170
Yes,

522
00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:46,199
we trust the process all the time,

523
00:19:47,050 --> 00:19:49,000
but we also have to trust the child.

524
00:19:50,010 --> 00:19:50,650
That's,

525
00:19:50,849 --> 00:19:52,839
that's what Axline put out into the world.

526
00:19:53,369 --> 00:19:54,520
Just trust the child.

527
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,569
So I hope that that helps you

528
00:19:58,099 --> 00:19:58,650
see

529
00:19:59,219 --> 00:20:00,020
where we've been.

530
00:20:00,770 --> 00:20:01,930
And next episode,

531
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,270
we're going to look at

532
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:04,949
Bernard and Louise Guerney.

533
00:20:05,849 --> 00:20:07,859
And how they expanded this model

534
00:20:08,349 --> 00:20:11,900
and brought parents into the process through

535
00:20:12,150 --> 00:20:13,380
filial play therapy,

536
00:20:13,670 --> 00:20:16,939
teaching parents to use CCPT principles with their own children.

537
00:20:18,339 --> 00:20:21,089
So I'd love to hear from you if you have thoughts about this series,

538
00:20:21,170 --> 00:20:22,560
if you have thoughts about

539
00:20:22,829 --> 00:20:25,160
Axline or anything that we've been talking about,

540
00:20:25,770 --> 00:20:26,290
shoot me an email.

541
00:20:26,329 --> 00:20:29,250
I'd love to receive it brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

542
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:30,489
If you wanna ask me a question,

543
00:20:30,569 --> 00:20:31,160
you can do that.

544
00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:34,880
If you'd like to leave a voicemail for me to answer a question,

545
00:20:35,089 --> 00:20:38,609
you can call 813-812-5525 in the states.

546
00:20:39,339 --> 00:20:40,579
And I love y'all,

547
00:20:40,790 --> 00:20:43,390
and I can't wait to dive into this series more.

548
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:46,510
Thank you for letting me know that this series is meaningful and helpful to you.

549
00:20:46,550 --> 00:20:48,459
A lot of you have reached out and I appreciate that.

550
00:20:48,989 --> 00:20:50,079
You're why I do this,

551
00:20:50,229 --> 00:20:51,030
so we're,

552
00:20:51,109 --> 00:20:53,219
we're in this CCPT thing together.

553
00:20:53,390 --> 00:20:53,709
Love y'all.

554
00:20:53,790 --> 00:20:54,550
We'll talk again soon.

555
00:20:54,750 --> 00:20:54,949
Bye.

556
00:20:56,239 --> 00:20:59,000
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

557
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:00,119
Brenna Hicks.

558
00:21:00,239 --> 00:21:02,199
For more episodes and resources,

559
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,099
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.