Inside Bangkok's Drag Empire with Pangina Heals [Full Interview]

Movie. Welcome to a special episode of Wayfinder. I'm your
host Daniel Scheffler. Last season, I had a conversation with
the dazzling Pangina Heels. She's a Thai drag superstar who's
been a judge and fierce competitor on RuPaul's Drag Race.
She's also a dear friend of mine. Pangina lives in Bangkok, Thailand,
where she owns several nightclubs, including the iconic House of Heels.
We met up in Bangkok after a night out to
discuss her reign as Queen of the nightlife. But what
you heard last season was only half of the darling
Pangina and I spoke for an hour about everything growing
up gay, how bullies taught us how to be shady,
what it was like to work with drag legend RuPaul,
and the sense of belonging that thy nightlife instills in
all of us, no matter who you are or who
you love. Without further ado, here is my full conversation
with Pangina Heels, drag queen extraordinaire. Okay, good morning, Good morning,
Pangina Heels. Here we sit at the Amman, Bangkok together.
Yes we are Hi. Fivebees Hi, darling, thanks for last night.
It was good.
Oh wow, and you didn't even have to pay me,
just a freebe Yeah.
It was a fun night.
It was great seeing the vibes out there in the
night life of Bangkok and hanging out for a little bit.
Yeah, but it was good. I loved seeing you work
a little magic. The way people looked at you was
so sweet. People were like, wow, that's the star. There's
that person who offers us a glimmer of hope. Thank fuck.
That's sweet of you. I think they're just drunk, but
it was.
It was a fun time letting you see me in
my element and just seeing two of the nightclubs that
are the popular ones. I mean, most of them are popular,
but these two are the ones that people really go
to to see drag and the other one is, you know,
just to see some boys.
Yeah, some beefy boys. Yes, exactly. And I met your
best friend.
Oh my god. Yeah, she's insane.
Her name's Tony and she's like basically the Adam Lambert
of Thailand.
Yeah.
Yeah, openly gay popstariya.
Wow. She did tell me that she is working on
a new single. She is, and I'm very excited for her.
She's kind of like an R and B singer. Very
good voice, yea, yeah, wow, you have a great voice too,
by the way.
A radio voice.
Right. Like speaking wise, not singing. Singing is hard. Have
you sung on drag Race? Thailand?
Singing is loosely used when it comes to me. Yes, yes,
you do know.
Yeah.
I love the invention that Cher has given us.
We sound great. Where were you born?
I was born in some Bagan, which is like the
suburb of Thailand. It's like an hour away to Taiwanese
mother and a Thai father right from the two thais right?
Is it weird to live in the suburbs? I grew
up in the suburbs of Johannesburg and Portorium.
Okay, what made it a suburb? Was there like a farm?
Do you have no fields? No fields, ocean, no ocean, mountain.
No mountains?
What is there?
There was just suburban South Africa, like racially segregated South Africa.
Oh wow.
Yeah, I lived where the white folk do. And I
didn't live in my entire childhood, but a part of
my child I lived there and it was just rich
white people. Yeah, I see. What was your suburbs like?
Poor type people, right, so kind of different.
We lived close by the fields, like rice paddy fields,
and you see herons every day, just like different birds.
And my parents had like a factory, so we would
be there. And the highlight of every week is to
go to KFC because that was like our I was
splurret Wow. Yeah, oh my god, the Kentucky Fried chicken
without the bones.
I don't know why. I just love it so much.
Once a week we get one.
Wow. Is that why you're so skinny? Oh?
No, I was obese back in the day. In high school,
I was definitely obese. Was stealing all my sister's food.
But I was like almost two hundred pounds by sixteen.
Oh my god.
Yeah, bloomed up. Yep.
Wow, she was well fed. Yeah. Wow, being a fat kid.
Is that what's driven you so hard? Oh?
For sure.
If you're listening right now, you know that if you
used to be fat, now you have a great personality.
I think it's a shield, right, and I think a
lot of us use it as a weapon or as
a defense mechanism and humor to kind of like lessen
the pains in life and what you've experienced.
I mean, as every gay boy fuck. You know, you go.
Through the bullying and add on top of that level,
then you're fat, and then on top of that level
you're feminine. Just like all the three f's. You basically,
you know, literally have to be witty. Yeah, which you
oh thanks, well we're still starting. But yeah, it's an overcompensation,
I would say. But it's also survival tactics, right, And
I think that really helped shape me into being the
drag queen today.
If you were bullied, now you bully other people.
Kidding, well, I guess when I was young, I was
teased for my voice all the time.
What's wrong with your voice?
People would make fun of me. People would just horrible
about it. Horrible.
Wait, what would they stay though.
Well, they call me faggot. And that was the classic month.
Right by the middle of the week, people had warmed up,
so they started to get more creative. Yeah, right, So
it would be related to my appearance. People would ask
me if I was Asian because my eye shape wild yeah,
and I'm like, you obviously have no Asian friends. And
by the weekend, it was just straight up hate. It
would just be deep, deep seated hate. And what's funny,
of course, is now I make money with the voice,
right now, I use the voice. So it's the thing
that I was most insecure about that people were the
meanest about, reclaiming that I pulled inside out and now
all that shit hangs out and I love.
I was going to say, your voice is very soothing
and deep. It's kind of like a cup of cocoa.
Makes sense, everybody a cup of cocoa. Yeah, So I was.
Like, why would they make fun of that? I don't
get it.
But it's jealousy, right, It's part of it is to
do with It's easy just to say jealousy, but it's
partly to do with like they can see that you're
trying to live your truth and that you're trying to
express and people don't like that.
No, people don't like it when someone is happy, someone
is different, and someone is walking a different path that
is not within the box and within the lines.
Right yeah, okay, so wait, so fat kid getting bullied,
Tell me how you use that?
Well.
I think when you're trapped in a certain situation, you
kind of have the fight or flight mode, and instead
of going the route of physical altercations, I thought the
way not only to survive, but to cut another person
deeper than they could ever possibly imagine is emotional manipulation
through words. So I think that kind of like sharpened
our wits to be like shady but also quick on
your tongue and quick when it comes to like giving
insults and stuff, so you kind of like paralyze them
and stun them and they're.
Like, what did that bitch just say?
So I think that really helped me becoming a drag
queen and also working on the mic in a nightclub
with drunk people, you have to be really quick on
your toes. So I think that really helped me shape
how to become comedic in a short notice.
Yeah, were your parents comedic?
Oh my god, my mother is the worst. She's so
funny but she doesn't know it. Oh I love that,
Yeah mine too, Yeah, Oh tell me more.
Well, my mother would say things like that chicky doesn't
even have an assistant, is if the whole world is
filled with humans with assistants, Like can you believe this
person doesn't have an assistant? And she'll say she'll say
things that are so out of touch but so wonderful. Yeah,
and she means really well, but she also has cutting
things like to my husband, like he'll come down and
we're going for dinner, and she'll say things like, oh,
don't worry, there's still time to change.
Oh my god.
Wow, it's so shady is equivalent, and I'm like, are
you wearing that exactly?
That's the best though. Yeah, I kind of like that.
If you don't instill a certain amount of fear but
you still control it and lace it with some grace,
then you're not true royalty.
Oh right, Oh yes, says the Queen herself. Yes, my
mom is less tactful. I would say I brought one
ex boyfriend home who didn't speak a lot of English,
and her first thing was like, he doesn't even know
how to spell shampoo. I was like, you can't say
that in front of him. Yeah, are you bringing boys
home to the parents more or less? Now?
Oh no, I'm wiser now. I do not bring any
boys home to the parents. My father's very sweet. Actually okay,
so he's okay with everything. He comes to the shows,
he does. He drives me to the shows in an
evening gown, the most supportive dad ever.
On the back of a mo to cycle Ti style
a truck.
Actually up, Yeah, it's kind of like a van, so
he would drive me.
I'll sit with like my hair up and so I
can't really sit up, so I'll like lie yeah really sweet.
Yeah. How long have you been in Bangkok?
I've been in Bangkok all my life? Well, siwhat Ragan?
We moved? I think like when I was around twelve
into the center.
Okay, Yeah, what are some of your favorite parts about
living in this great city?
It's so freeing. You can do anything you want. You
can well, not anything because there is jail, but you
feel kind of like liberated to be able to walk
and wear anything you want. No one's going to tell
you otherwise. People are very tolerant. So like me being
a drag queen and I lost the ability to give
a shit since I was like twelve.
I would just dress up as.
A woman and go out at night and I would
never feel unsafeible. Yeah, there's an alley in Thailand called
Sealum Sooy four where I would just get dressed up
and walk the streets. And then when this bar owner
was like, you're kind of crazy, do you want to
perform here?
And that's how it started.
Wow, what did you perform? First? Oh?
I think it was like Lady Gaga Telephone when it
came out. But there is a sense of like rush
when you go out at night and you're doing something
that society necessarily say you can't do. So for me,
there is a rush to do that, and it just
makes you feel alive when you're doing something that people
say you shouldn't and when you disagree with the confines
of society of men should wear pants and ladies should
only wear skirts, and you're like, it's just fabric. Why
are we even having this conversation. So to answer your question, Bangkok,
I think you feel like anywhere you go most of
the time, you feel like you can just be who
you want to be.
Wow. Yeah, I mean don't you wish this for the
whole fucking world?
Fuck?
Yeah, yeah, I would love that. Right. Do you think
that that has changed? I mean, how are you?
I am thirty seven officially officially do you think that's
changed since gay marriage has passed in Thailand?
Which is very recent?
Yes, it is very recent. I honestly don't think so.
I think Thailand has always been like this. It's just
I feel like once the marriage law pass one thing
that you can do is go up to people of
a different generation and be like, I'm legal. Now you
can't say shit, and so it's kind of like that
validation on top of what we've been living, and so
you can go like, now it's just your homophobia because
now it's approved by the law. But in terms of
that sense of freedom and sense of being able to
be who you are.
Not really.
Yeah, also the law just kind of caught up with
society that part. Yeah, exactly. I have been coming to
Thailand since I was a kid, right, Like I came
for the first time when I was seventeen to come
party in Bangkok. Okay, them, where did you go? I
can't remember. I mean that's like seventy years ago now,
so it's a long time. Okay, it's been a hot minute. No,
I can't remember. I just went out on the town,
like I went to gay bars, and I did think
at the time. Okay, so if I was seventeen, it
was like two thousand, it was like the millennia. It
was that era. I'm just a little older than you,
and I remember thinking it's open and free and it's
not what I expected, right, But do you think that
Thailand is like that because it's kind of its own thing.
It's the country in Asia that's never been colonized. I mean,
there's no prouder nation than the Ties, right.
Oh yeah, we love our country. It's ingrained now our TNA.
Yeah yeah.
So a part of that to me seems like, well,
we love all type people, So why would we hate
on anybody that's part of our society because it's such
a multifaceted grouping of people. Yes, but the Thai thing
is so strong, like I don't know any time people
that don't feel this way about Yeah, they're quite very prideful.
But also on top of that level is the fact
of tourism where our country, one of our main income
is tourism. So I think that's why we're called the
Land of Smells, is because part of our culture is
to welcome people from all over the world and in general,
which is very friendly people. I think sometimes to a fault.
You're very friendly to a certain extent. Yes, just don't
get on my bad side because I'm scurry.
Speaking of traveling, Yes, speaking of tourism, what are some
of the things you hope that a traveler would experience
while visiting Bangkok?
Well, I want travelers who come to Thailand to feel
like this is paradise. And because honestly unpopular opinion, I
do think Thai food is one of the best food
in the world for a reason, and I want them
to come to Thailand and be like, oh, this don't
taste like what it tastes back home, right, Like we
don't put carrots into our curry, and it's such a
pet peeve for me. So I think when they come
and experience Thailand, first off, just the food. Northern food
is so different from the southern food, right, and so
for them to come and get a variety of that
palette is going to be mind blowing. And when people come,
I want them to experience Bangkok the way they want
to experience it. Because everyone has their own thing. Sometimes
it's families, sometimes it's wild, single side, and we have
that to offer, So choose your own adventure basically.
Oh I love that. Well, first stop is House of Heels.
Oh thank you. How did you come up with that name?
By the way, well, I've always been fascinated by you know,
in the eighties they have like the house system of
the ballroom culture, and I was like, well, my name
is Panjana Heels. This is a collective a house of
girls I work with, and I think that it would
be great just to call it the house of heels,
and it would be a place where drag queens can
showcase their art with the lighting that they deserve, with
the security that they deserve, and put on the best
show for the world to see whoever comes through to Bangkok.
Right, there's a history of drag shows here. Right, there's
a history of lady boys, which I don't know we.
Still create say that word out loud.
I don't know, are we still saying that? What are
we saying now?
I think just trends women's show or cabaret show or
showgirls most of.
The but at the time eighties, nineties, early two thousands,
it was tie lady boys for sure, and then that
evolved into cabaret stars show girls. Okay, let's call them showgirls.
We can call them show girls. I think that's what
politically correct, a ware woke people use it.
But the word lady boy is so.
Like attached to who we are, so most tight people
would just like call it's the lady boy show.
Still even still, wow, how is that different from a
drag queen?
Well, that's a really good question.
So traditionally, Thailand has a culture of cabaret shows, and
it's very specific to Thailand because nowhere else in the
world would have a big cabaret show where the main
performers are all trans women. Other places more rouge, they're
biological women, but here in Thailand that's been the history
ingrained into the context of our culture. So that along
with something called Miss Tiffany Pageant where they have like
I think once a year, trans women compete and it's
seen all over the world. So that causes the society
to accept trans women and they call it women.
Type two sala pit song.
So that's why we were so opened to trans women
and trans people in general. But the main difference between
a drag queen and drag is just an art form.
Anyone can do it.
But not Mae Darling, I can't split.
You do not need to split to become a drag queen.
There's many queens who do not do splits. But the
main difference is that most showgirls would live their life
as a woman versus some drag queens in Thailand, like
me would live my life as a boy. That doesn't
mean because a lot of people are going to clock
me on that. It doesn't mean drag. Queens in general
have to live as a boy, right, But in Thailand generally,
stereotypically that is the case.
Right, it's just free. You can do whatever. Yeah, it does,
you can do it role role. Do you think that
the states back to Thai original history, like in India,
they had third gender, right, So like there's a part
of Indian society that well, of course does not accept
any of it, but there's a part of Indian society
that sort of understands that gender. What was the really
ancient history of Thailand regarding gender and gender expression?
Well, back in history, like in King Mother six there
are lots of theater productions where females were not allowed
to participate. So within that context, the males have to
dress up as females in those roles. And so historically
that's where it all started in the performance aspects. So
it's very Shakespearean I would say, you know, dressed in
a role as a girl, But in Thailand it started
from King Rama the sixth.
Well, yeah, what year is that?
Oh, I don't know. I have a long long time ago,
A long long time ago. You were just obabe. I
was still a sperm. Right if even.
Speaking of heels, the way you spell your pangyna heels
h e a l s opposed to h e e
l s. Let's talk about that, Yes we can.
I do think that when the world used to be one,
the super continent Pangaea.
That's half of what my name came from.
So I think the world is so divided, especially right now.
I think that wouldn't it be nice if we were
just all one continent without all this clashing. And I
think what dragg does for me is heals other people,
and it healed me. And so I think that through
this journey of this art form, I've seen so many
people lit up. And I think that's one of the
greatest gift to myself is looking around the nightclub and
seeing people laugh yeah, no matter who they are. And
I feel like that's what I'm born onto this earth
to do, is to give people happiness.
Oh, you're doing it. I saw you last night. People
were like, got gang thank you, Pagina heals. Yeah, it's
a great name.
Thanks. I mean I was inspired by Angina. You know, she's.
Season one RuPaul drag Race season one all the way back.
Yeah, I didn't see a lot of people who look
like me on television, and you know, she's Filipino. So
I was like, oh my gosh, she's rapping and she's great,
and I was just so inspired by her story and
she was so open about being HIV positive, and I
was like, I've never seen someone more exposed, someone who
represented and raw before, and so I was like, oh
my god, Pangina on Ngina. So it's kind of nice
that now I got to meet her and work with
her and it's like a lovely sisterhood.
Yeah that's nice. Yeah, Okay, let's bring it back to Bangkok.
So do you think that Bangkok represents more of this
like the drag scene in New York. I've tapped into
it a little bit, so I know that very well,
but I don't know the drag scene here. So tell me, like,
what is the drag scene like here? Why did you
think that there was a space for you to open
House of Heels and all the other niche bars as
you told me that you've opened in the city.
Well, I think in terms of the House of Heels,
I've worked in straight clubs all my life, every sing
I know, ever since I was boring, right, I mean,
it's no offense but all offense. It's like a lot
of the straight clubs, they play the same top forties
and the music is shite, and I just can't deal
with it anymore. And like when I perform at the
straight clubs, I don't feel safe. People would pull my
wigs out when they're drunk. And so one day I
wanted to create a space that was safe for the
performers and for everyone else. And so that's how it
all began. And we've been going on five years strong,
and I've basically curated the best of the best queens
to perform at Heels. So if you're performing at Heels,
you've got to have your shit together because you're no
longer baby queens. You're working with the top in the industry.
And so it's kind of nice to have that pressure
on each of us as well, so that we can't
stay complacent. But in terms of opening, my goal is
to open niche places. And I use this term very loosely,
like niche but like beef for example, is a place
where all the bears come together.
Yeah we so last nine yeah bears. I did see
a bear holding a tiny, tiny, tiny ramoa bag oh.
You lost your shit when that happened.
You were like, what is that that? I was like,
where is he going with that tiny, tiny ramoa? It
was drag. It was drag. It was totally sure.
I love that. That's the first thing you noticed, Like
is that a tiny little ramoa bag?
God killed man? It was amazing. I sent the photo
to my husband. He was like, I hate ramoa, but
I kind of want one.
Right right, It was like I kind of want to
see how it feels in your hand.
He's not comfortable.
No, no, hold, I'm used to the hard things in
my hand.
But right.
But then my other club is silver Sand, which is
more like a dive bar for anyone who loved Baby Queens,
So that's like the place you foster new talent. And
then there's Horn, which is EDM for DM lovers you
know techno, sorry techno.
And there is DT, which is a shower show bar.
Oh will you be in the showers? Oh?
Hell no, I don't want people to leave, but it is.
You know, I was so inspired by like being in
Vegas and you told me you were in Vegas. A well,
I need to hear those stories. But like they just
make dance such an art form, and I just love
start disilay, So I kind of want to bring that
element back into Bangkok a little bit interesting.
Okay, let's think about how we see this as a
narrative for you, right, So tell me the story. You
arrive in Bangkonk, your family moved to Bangkonk, you start
as a baby qween, then you stop working at a club,
and then you decide to start your own thing. Tell
me this is a story.
Okay, Once upon a time as a fact overweight gay
boy who was heavily bullied, then became bulimic, then came
to this city. It was really hard to go to
school in the States and come back to Thailand because
I always felt a sense of culture shock and displacement.
Oh she's too Asian for this place, she's too American
for this place. Coming back home, I have had the
experience of seeing what nightclubs could be and what Thailand
or Bangkok was not offering. So I was a little
inspired by something from New York. So I was a
little inspired with something from San Diego, something from Singapore.
And so I wanted to create something that we didn't
have and something I wanted, and so it's hard to
jump into the deep end of becoming a business owner because,
especially for me as an artist, you're always so afraid
that I can never do that. I could never be
a business person. You are not a numbers person. You're
always just one thing. That's what most of the time
people would always put you. As you're an artist. You
can't have your own business. And so when someone approached me,
I was like, let's do it. And I think it's
nice to do something that you haven't done before and
you are a little afraid, because that's when you feel
most alive. And so that's always been my motto in life,
if it makes you a little afraid, you should do it.
Yeah.
So I think having those nightclubs and always constantly using
fear as fuel, I was able to do most of
the things I did in life.
Wow, is that a story? Is that? Does that make
a great story? Okay?
Okay, good?
They like narrative on that podcast. I see we're trying
to tell the narrative. Okay.
I don't know the ending yet. Hopefully it's a happy
ending with you.
I expect nothing less.
I am tie of course.
Exactly. How has the city's treatment to gay people and
queer tourists. How has that changed?
I think we definitely offered more choices for people now.
I don't want people going out at night to just
have the same thing. They should have an experience. And
that's what most of my venues does. The scent when
you walk in, the decoration, the music, all of it
must blend in a beautiful orgy that feels like you
always remember that night I do telling. Okay, well that's good,
that's good, but at least it was memorable, right.
Leather, yeah, leather, Yeah, leather and ramoa, tiny ramoas.
That should be the name of like a party, leather
and remoa.
It wouldn't that be fine? We could get a sponsorship
for that. That would be so cool.
Everyone is wearing leather but has a remoa accessory.
Of various sizes. Yeah, so like extra big, like I'm
moving in or I'm just sleeping over tiny tiny ramoa.
And I feel like the bigger you are, the smaller bag.
The smaller you are, the bigger the bag and contrast, right.
Yeah, okay, so you'll have a giant bag. Sure. Okay,
So you open this nightlife megathon and it starts to explode.
How has the process been. You started with one and
now you have a whole bunch. But tell me that
story of how that's been going. People thought you couldn't
do it, yeah, and now look at you.
Yeah, it's been a journey. I think the hardest thing
doing is working with people. I think there's a lot
of factors going into it, and we've been through a lot.
But first we started with the House of Heels and
it's drag queens, and working with drag queens is not easy,
So she says, I know I'm not the easiest person
to work with as well, I'm self aware. But after
the House of Heels was established, and we've had a
lot of stars came through. You know, We've had Duelipa here,
We've had Lisa from Black Pink here, We've had cl
from twenty one, Lupita Nyongo, and so lots of celebrities
do feel safe to come here because it's in the
Renaissance Hotel as well, so that offers a certain amount
of security. But then after the House of Heels has
been established, then Beef opened up and because it was
so popular it was too small, we moved to a
bigger venue. As you see, it's huge now and on
the weekends you just can't get in. The line is
like an hour and a half, and so I avoid
weekends being someone with social anxiety, which is ironic because
that's what I do as my job. I should not
be able to afford having anxiety or panic attacks. And
after Beef has been opened, then we were like, ohoh,
the underground edm scene or techno scene is like, we
need a place for them. So that's how Horn came
to be, and Silver Sand and Edt are all in
the same building.
Okay, tell me about the experience of you creating the
club and what it felt like.
The experience of opening the first night is like having
a child. You will lack so much sleep that you
feel like you're on death row. You're worrying about everything,
like I felt like I slept at the night club itself,
because with all the construction, with the things coming together,
then on top of that, you will wonder if anyone
will show up. So it's like such a mix of
emotions and I remember never ever stop worrying about it.
So I would compare it to giving birth. And after
having the opening, thank god, it was successful. It had
like two hundred people in a space that only had
one hundred people in the First House Appeals, So you
felt like you just take the biggest dump ever. You
felt like such a relief after it goes well. But
then the real challenge, and every business owner knows this
is how do you keep on making it a success.
You can't just say oh, it's good now.
You have to keep going back and seeing what needs
to be fixed, how the trends are changing, the quality
control and everything. So for me, it was like making
sure your child is a good human being.
Right. How was it received?
Oh my god, the First House of Heals, it was
received phenomenally, Like people had to wait in line because
the space was small, but it was intimate and all
the celebrities came and Thailand like it was unlike anything
anyone's ever seen because it was like a small room,
like three times this.
Size of this room.
It was just tiny and like it had the magic
that Bangkok has never seen before because it had drag
Queen's performers, We had live singers and people just love
the vibe of it. Like, you know, you can't explain
the magic of a certain space.
How did it feel.
It felt like you're coming home.
Wow, but it's a home that you made for yourself. Yeah.
But like a lot of people when they go there,
they were like, this feels like going to your gay
best friend's house and just partying there.
It's so funny.
Like we would wake up one day and we see
like paces on the wall because people got so drunk
and they would just throw their paces on the wall.
It was wild. The stories you would hear, Oh my god.
Like lots of memorable things happened and went down in
that place, like wild.
Yeah, Oh I love that. Yeah, you know, I think
for me nightlife it fills such a beautiful gap in
your daily life, right, like to be able to go
out and to be able to go to a place
where you can dance, where you can sing, where you
can be with people that are wanting to do the
same thing. Right, And I'm not the nightlife person that's
interested in the velvet rope and the special area and
the champagne service and all that. I'm the person who's
interested in sort of a dive. Barry Old School, there
was a club on the West Side Highway that during
the week it was called west Side Bar No on
the weekends and then like two days a week. It
was called Westside Gay God. I need to name check
all this, Like this was early days New York. And
I've seen Gaga there, Like she would just arrive it
just because she was like a thing, right, she would
just arrive and she would kind of sing and perform
into early Early Day Love two thousand and nine. And
I would go to this club and I had no
desire to escape my life, but it offered me an
insight into myself because it offered me a place where
I was free and expressing in a way that I
was never allowed to in my life growing up in
South Africa. Yes, it is one of the most progressive
LGBT countries in the world. We had gay marriage very
early on. It is in some ways very very progressive
in gay matters, but in other ways it was very conservative,
and in other ways it was like not very gay friendly.
So for me, nightlife presented that place where I could
go and feel like him humans. I am oozing with
you and we're oozing together, and here we are opening
ourselves up to no matter what the good the bad.
And I have cried at the clubs, I have laughed
at the clubs, I have bled at the clubs, I
have done all the things, yes, and that's what night
life feels for me. Tell me your version of that.
I think it's about learning who you are and who
you want to be, right meeting the people that will
eventually become your tribe. But like a lot of the times,
you don't focus on the act of choosing and the
act of saying yes and the act of saying no,
because there's so much power to that as well. You
pick the people you want, but you also get to
pick the people you don't want, and I think that's
so great for me to learn all of that, And
because you're bombarded with so many types of people, you
have to really curate and I think it's rate to
be able to curate your own life based.
On what you do on the night out.
And for me then I learned like the things that
I really don't like our crowds, and I stay away
from that and sometimes like just a nice glass of
wine and a night out is enough for me. And
it's kind of like gauging where you are at what
point in your life. But I do hate that velvet
rope bullshit because for me, a lot of the time,
it's like small dick energy people and people are like, oh,
I want to.
Flaw my money.
I'm like, okay, why don't you just like throw some
of that towards some charity instead of spending thousands and
thousands of dollars on for what? And you're not even
dancing most of the time. You just want to be seen,
and you can be seen anywhere. Well, you're a drag
queen tonic, You're seen everywhere.
Well true.
I think Bangkok is so associated with nightlife, right. It's
such an iconic nightlife city. And I came here as
a seventeen year old boy because I was like, oh,
I can be free there. I can come here and
not feel judged because I was feeling judged in my
own context. Right. There was a part of deep, deep
inner city Johannesburg which was not judging me. And I
was parttying with my friend Nina Hasty, and we would
go to these clubs and we would be the only
white people and we would feel safe there. I would
feel like, Okay, I can dance here, I can just
express But I associate Bangkok with that in context of
the world. Tell me how that functions as part of
your city.
I think as gay travelers, we are always trying to
find our community or our haven, I would say, and
no matter which city you go, there's a certain degree
of having to find that. And I think with Bangkok
it's so readily available that sense of safety and sense
of being able to explore who you are and then
finding out more about yourself that it's unlike other cities.
But to contextualize it, I would say, like for me
growing up, I would always want to go to that
gay bar or a gay friendly space. Is because I
want to find more people like me or people who
I want to hang out with or.
Learn something from and hear their stories.
And so because Bangkok is such an open space, it's
not just one bar, it's an alley, it's an area,
so that way you can peruse, you can sachet down
the street and find what you like in different pockets
of this magic that we call Bangkok.
You know. Moving to Madrid, my husband and I just
moved very recently. It is the gayest place I've ever lived, really,
and it's wonderful. Yeah, And there's a part of me
that's been uncovering my feelings about it, like why am
I so aware of it? And part of it has
to do with like maybe there was some fucked up
squished down low below self hatred, self sort of anger
on my gainess right, And it has to do with
my childhood of course everything. And it's interesting because it's
like I don't ever want to live not where the
gays are ever again, Like these are my people, for
better or for worse, right, and as you say, there
are things to learn, their stories to hear. The more
I've been living in Madrid for two months, I've been
immersing myself in parts of the gay night life and
day life and all life. And it's been so wonderful
because I feel safe, because I feel like I'm meeting
people that understand a version of me that's much more
true than anything else. Not that I've lived in the
straight world necessarily. I've lived in New York and London
Cape Town, but Madrid is like center of Madrid is
like gay gay gay gay gay, It's real, Oh my god.
And it's been wonderful to do that as an older
forty year old with my husband. Right, So it's not
just going to get fucked up or going to hook up.
There's some intellectualization of it which has been so amazing
to me. And I didn't necessarily have this when we
were living in California, and I think I had this
in the beginnings of my life in New York and
then it shifted. But it's been a gift. And did
I think Madrid would offer me this, Absolutely not. I
love that.
Yeah, I kind of want to go now.
You'll come visit, Yeah, visitor, please tell me that version
of Bangkok for you.
In terms of finding more people like me, I think
I was really uncomfortable with who I was coming back,
and obviously the sense of displacement until I went out
to this gay club.
It's called DJ Station. I'm sure you've been.
There is a rule now that you can't dance on
the speaker, and I believe it's because of me. It's
because I think I was around fifteen. I would sneak
into these clubs. I don't recommend it, but because I
want to be around people who understood me, who I
did not need to explain certain things because at the time,
a lot of my friends were not gay, and I
wanted to have friends who understood what it's like to
go through this journey called life. And so for me,
having been in that space, I found lifelong friends. I've
found people who I could rely on. I found my
current business partner who I've now known from the nightclub
like fifteen years ago, who's like my business partner in
all my nightclubs.
Oh, we met him last night.
No, that's a different one.
But this one I've actually met because I was dancing
on stage and he was like, I need to know
this person, and so he came up and said hi
to me, and we kept in touch. And so you
never know, similarly to your Vegas elevator story, you never
know who you're gonna meet and would change your life.
Right, Yeah, we just have to be open, yes, right,
Like I was saying to you last night, I feel
like a Vegas is one of those great places where
like it's a great place to start a conversation and
be like, what are you guys doing here? Doesn't matter
what you do, who you are, who you fucked, like,
none of that matters. What matters is that you're in
an elevator and you're together. And I have met some
of the best friends. I've met, some of the work partners.
I've met, cute boys to hook up with. I've made
friends like I've done it all. I've scored drugs, I've
done it all in a Vegas elevator. Wow. And you
can be judging your Vegas sure, sure, but you could
also just be like, well, open yourself up because maybe
there's something for you to learn there.
Well, do you think it's also because you've opened yourself up?
But that's why you're allowed to have that kind of experience.
If you were closed up person and you face the
other way in a Vegas elevator, look.
Will you'll be right?
Yeah? But speaking of which, you on introvert, yes me, yes,
Oh no, I'm.
The biggest extrovert. I'm just easily annoyed by people.
Okay, Ken, Yeah, but you did say that you were
socially awkward, socially insecure.
No, I suffer from high self esteem. I just have
panic attacks in crowds, and I think it's because of
the trauma of getting a lot of death threats from
having been exposed to a lot of things. So I
have that in the back of my mind of not
knowing when someone would hurt me. And I've had a
stalker as well. So no, I've always been very extroverted.
I love dancing, but then because of that the trigger
is someone touching me without my consent really fast, and
I just go into a shutdown mode.
Yeah.
I had to learn that with my therapist. What the
triggers are.
Yeah, okay, I want to touch you very.
No, you're fine, You're fine.
Just when someone charges at you, it replicates in the
back of my mind unsubconsciously that someone is attacking, if
that makes sense.
Did this change after being on repulse drag race? What
do you mean, like, did I just have this after No,
but you became more famous people noticed you after that,
for sure? Was it more like then people started wanting
to be closer to you or talk to you.
For sure. And that goes with the good and the bad.
And I'm never going to be ungrateful for that because
for them to appreciate what I do is the highest
compliment ever. And of course they have good taste and
I still it, but it does come.
With that, you know, the stalker.
That whole thing really does shape you for the good
or the bad. But you take it with a grain
of salt, you know.
Well, you know, I've had a stoke on myself, and
in one way, I'm sort of complimented.
Oh my god, I love when you see.
That, and in another way, I'm terrified and horrible. But
of course nothing is one thing. It's always both sides, right,
I mean, that's very time. We were talking about this
last night, like that ancient thaie. Wisdom comes from seeing
things to making a hand movement of.
Of like a fish flopping over back and forth.
Isn't that very time?
It's so tied we love? Can I say oxymoronic qualities?
The dichotomy of everything? Like you would see the most
five star hotel in the next block over, it's like
the shanty town that's Thailand for you. The cleanest, the dirtiest,
the grungiest, the best, the worst. Choose you an adventure?
How did you infuse that into your drag?
Into my drag?
So back in the day, I was very unpolished, very crazy.
I would say whatever.
And then having been on drag race, I fell in
love with fashion and I fell in love with the
polishness of everything and just the idea that no one
can say anything about you from the head to toe.
For me, that is such a diss and I love
it so. I love that my mouth is itself, the gritty,
the dirty, the grungy weapon that I have and my
dragon itself is I love looking perfect.
You always look perfect. Well, wait, I'll fanboy for one second.
I mean you were incredible on drag Race.
Thank you? Yeah, thank you?
You were robbed.
Oh.
My husband and I were both like, oh my god.
You arrived at Polish.
Oh. I did a lot of preparation that I was serious.
Yeah, you were serious.
I was really serious. I took eleven types of classes
in those preparations. Wow, people didn't know, like I relearned
how to sew, learn how to make hair, relearn how
to make up, fashion history, meditation, acting.
It was eleven types of classes.
Wow. I hate it when the queens arrived and they're like, oh,
I've never said, what the fuck is that? Right? Wait,
you're coming on drag Race? You know, you know, you
know that's gonna.
Be that right.
Tell me a little bit about that experience. How is RuPaul?
I mean, say what you want, don't feel pressure, but like,
how was the experience?
I think it was life changing, right in the best ways.
And like people sometimes think that I'm kissing ass by
saying that, but oh, that was just my experience. I
didn't expect RuPaul to be my best friend. RuPaul to
me is a deity. She is someone who has allowed
drag to become mainstream, and for me, my expectations were different.
I just revered her, I idolized her. So for me
to be in the same room with her that was
just insane. And for her to say my name. I
still get goosebumps about it, but like I love that,
I fear her also, like if she's angry, I just
have incen diarrhea. So it's crazy because the music video
Supermodel when it came out, I studied that in college.
So for me to be in that room watching her show,
doing makeup, then one day competing in a show in
front of my idol, it was just the most insane experience.
Because I judged Drag Race. We were the first franchise
outside America, Yes, Brooklyn, we were the first one, and
Thailand was and so I never thought I was able
to be a contestant. I was a judge already, who
does that, and so in the history of that, I
went from a judge becoming a contestant. It was a
lot of my shoulders, but it was the best experience.
I cried every night, whether it was a good or
you're so in your head.
Wow, and you can't speak to anyone on the outside world, right, Yeah, you.
Know your phones are taken away and you can't speak
to anyone, and so you're always in your mind.
Right, Yeah, how was that in my mind? I don't
advise it.
It's a lot because you're in a pressure cooker and
for that time that you're filming, that is the most important.
Thing in your life and nothing else.
Wow.
And for me, on top of that, it's like first
type person in the history of RuPaul's drag race, first
Southeast Asian from Asia to fly over, first judge, who's
going to listen to you if you did badly? So
it's a lot of first for me to have on
my shoulders. And it's funny after the whole experience, I
had to relearn that, oh bitch, just go and represent yourself. Yes,
take that off your shoulders and you'll have more fun.
Wow, you look like you were having fun. I did.
But the crying that made it onto the show. The
real thing was like two days and I stopped eating
because I was so heartbroken.
The same feeling when Spice Girl broke up.
It was like times ten. Oh were you in bed
when that happened.
No, I'm not that kind of guy, but no, no,
but I was sad. You were sad, But I was like,
what's Ginja doing? Now? Oh?
I was in bed crying the entire day.
Wow, who's your spice skill? Oh?
Baby, oh babyaby? I love baby. But then now I
appreciate Victoria the most. Oh yeah, right, why you made
a reaction?
What was that? She's done us good.
She's like fine wine yeah.
Yeah yeah, and her human respect for him. I was
always a scary spices you are, but really really deeply
like I loved scary spies, but my favorite was always
Ginger and then Scary and then the rest of the girls.
I think Ginger is the most camp. Well right, so camp,
okay outside of bangkonk. What do you feel is the
effect of travel and solo travel on the gay identity.
I think it wasn't until this year that I actually
decided to do solo traveling. And I think it's so
important for your soul to know who you are because
there's no outside voices. You have to be comfortable with
that silence, have to be comfortable being in your own
mind and being heat and is sick, but also knowing
the fine lines of what you want out of life,
because I think within the first week of me solo traveling,
I went to the heat and a sick route and
I was like, I'm just gonna drink as much as
I want. I'm gonna go and party as much as
I want. And then this third day and I was.
Like, I don't think I can do this too many boys.
It just felt like I was chasing something that can
never be quenched. And so after that, I was like, oh,
maybe I need to find balance, And isn't that a
lesson in life? And like what is your balance? What
is your happiness? So I think solo traveling it puts
you outside your comfort zone and you relearn things about yourself.
Oh yeah, which is fabulous. And then you learn to
look at the person in the mirror right before you
go to sleep, and it's like, I like that person.
I do that every day? You do?
Yeah, I love that. I think it was insecure.
I mean I was always that bitch, but I was
an insecure young person and I did not find my
tribe for a very long time. I was kicked out
of so many tribes. People would be like for what
too much, too much, swearing, too much, gayness, too much, bitch,
too much, this, too much, all the things. I was
always too much, So I kind of never fitted anywhere
until I was like, we don't want to fit. I
just want to be me. So I worked hard on
that thing. And then consequently I've met people that love
that thing right, and therefore we're friends. But yeah, it's
an interesting journey. The solo travel is one of the
greatest things I've done with my life, right, one hundred
and forty plus countries, and a lot of it's been
by myself. I mean, I'm obviously meeting people all the time,
like hanging out and meeting new people, but I love
being alone. My mind is a labyrinth and I enjoy it.
I get lost in it. And then, because I'm married,
and because I spend a lot of time with my spouse,
you know, we're always together and doing stuff. You need
the separation to go and be in the mind, right,
and I use travel for that. And on the plane
hours of just sort of dozing and sleeping and thinking
and dreaming and knitting.
Discovering and healing. Yeah, yeah, healing and healing. No, I
completely agree. I think that is a healthy relationship. I've
seen couples who have to do something with each other
all the time, and I'm like, how don't you want
to spend some time with yourself because the person you're
going to spend the most amount of time with is yourself.
And if you're not comfortable with yourself and you're with
someone else, is that good?
Is that healthy?
I'm not judging, but I'm just saying, right, actually, we
should talk about this. We did last night and you
were like, your eyelashes flutted at me. But yeah, so
you've been spending some time alone working on the solo thing. Yeah,
where's the relationship part of that?
That you there is no relationship And I'm at peace
with that.
The reason that I had that reaction because I was
thinking and I had an epiphany and you were like,
don't be mad, and I was like, I'm not mad,
I'm just thinking. And I was like, huh, maybe he's right.
But because I have such a resting bitch face, people
think I'm mad all the time.
Yes you do. I just do.
I have a very restling bitch like it's a bad
case of it. Tell and I don't smile a lot,
so I go from constipation straight into laughter, if that makes.
Sense, constipation or consternation both.
When people say like I'm focused on work or like
I'm focused on my career, Like that's true also, but
like I have an incredibly high standard at the age
where I am approaching forty, where I no longer need
fuck boy problems, where I no longer need people living
with their moms. Why I no longer want to financially
support someone, where I no longer want to have bad sex.
All of that on top of my high standards, on
top of who I know I deserve in life. I
just don't have those people coming into my life. And
maybe that's just my veneer and my protection, but I
don't know that's why I don't have relationships.
It's the vinea dully sure, sure, but you just have
to make a little space. Hmmm. Okay, let's do some
highlights of Bangkok for travelers. Okay, what are some of
your favorite nightlife spots?
Some of my favorite night live spots. That's not my establishments.
I do love the drag shows at Stranger Bar, so
a lot of my sisters do perform there.
It's so fun because it's in.
That alley that I talk about and at the end
of the alley, I was the first drag queen who
performance Stranger Bar as well, and then I went to
open my own bar. But it's filled with like backpackers
and people from all walks of life, fashion people, so
it's cool because you never know who's going to wander
into there. But like the other nightlife places that I do,
there's so many rooftop bars in Bangkok what I've seen
so many of them, so I'm not gonna recommend one.
I love Eat Me Restaurant. It's a restaurant that has
a pun in its name because where do you want
to go?
Eat me?
So you're like, really, he's at the first thing you say, sure,
But the cocktails are great, there's always artwork, the food
is decadent.
I do enjoy that place.
There's also a Michelin star restaurant that I recommend, which
is called.
Sayam Ocha Royal Ocha.
So if you want to like have the experience of
Thai food, but like have it so bougied up with
the presentation, you'll enjoy it.
Tonight, I'm going to Chef pam Oh.
I love her.
Yeah, she's not in town, but I am going for
solo dinner. Con't wait. I did invite you, but you're
flying off.
Yeah, I'm going. She went to school with me.
Yeah, she's a big fucking deal, too, big vogging deal,
Like what best chef in yeah number one world? Yeah exactly.
I was like she was like in my high school.
I didn't know she was going to amount to that.
But great for her. But you never know who's gonna
amount to.
What it's darning. But they said the same about you.
Oh thank you, you did good, You did good.
Yeah, thank you.
What are some of your favorite band activities bankock activities?
I don't know if I can promote it. Oh yeah,
because I don't know how PG.
This is no PG. No. Well.
I love getting a good massage, the normal kind and
the extra kind massages, running in the park, going to
different restaurants I haven't tried. And one of my favorite
things is looking at what local office workers go to.
You sit out and like you poach, and you like, okay,
where are they all walking on? Because that's what they
have to eat every day, so you know that it's
got to be good. So that's one of my favorite
things to do. Even if I go overseas as well.
It's like, what are they eating? What are the locals?
You're smart, thank you. I never thought of that.
You should always like sit out at a coffee shop
and see.
Where people flock to great yeah wow.
And come back the next day when it's not full wow.
Yeah. In India, I do the thing where I go,
I eat on the streets of Indian people. It's like,
oh my god, are you insane? But I've never been
sick because I go where everybody's going. Love. If there's
a giant crowd, what is every single thousand people gonna
get sick? No, No, just don't go to the lonely stand.
That's you know, there's no one. Yeah, that would be scary.
But also a trick.
In Thailand, if the restaurant you eat at looked like
there was a murder scene happened there, possibly, it's usually good.
Yeah, you're right, you know what I mean, You're totally right. Yeah.
One of my favorite things in Thailand to do is
exactly what happened last night. You were like, okay, bitch,
I'm out, and you paid some man seventy bad and
I hopped onto the back of a motorcycle. No helmet
just holding on. You know that my driver or the
man who was operating such motorbike, he was like ninety
five years old.
He would look like Gondolph.
Yeah. Yeah, And off I went, and it was raining.
We went through the pools of water just into the night. Yeah,
that is one of my favorite things to do.
I love it. For a dollar, two dollars, two dollars, Yeah,
you can just.
Like go out in the world. And the man was
so sweet and he wanted to drop me right at
the door, right, and to be like, wait, we've got
to make sure that you're safely tucked into bed like tie.
People are friendly, man, I forget how Like there's a
part of the culture here that I deeply, deeply, deeply
love and it's that it's that like people want to
be hospitable no matter who.
Yeah, no, very that.
Do you want to ever get free water? Sure, pretend
to faint in a crowd of Thai people, you'll get
free water.
Oh great, I always need water, he says as he
starts downing his aquapana.
And it has my name in it, Aquapana.
Aquapangina will do a special collection just for you. I
love Actually, why don't we get a little sponsorship deal.
After today, I'm going to send them an email.
Sure Aquapana or Orangina.
Oh you know the drink?
Yes, yeah, I always got it Orangina. I'm sure it's Orangina. Yeah,
those two great. Have some more water, Okay.
Tell me about some other favorite food spots or some
of the wellness spots. Where's your massage place?
The best passage place in a Bangkok that I recommend
that is safe is prime massage.
You should always book one day in advance.
But the skill, the level that they do, they would
transport you into Nirvana. Like they're so well trained that
the massage is out of this world. One of the
restaurants that you have to go to in Thailand in
my opinion is Hi so Thumb Convent, which is in
Soy Convent that's hard to pronounce darling Hai, a high convent.
That place is just oh my god. The food is
so good and so cheap like the northern food. So
it has like sausage and all the types of soup.
And I just love that place because it's the bang
for your buck. But also like for any people who
are wondering who coming to Thailand, who wants like a
safe intro to tai food you can go to like Nara.
It's always going to be good.
Oh, good Nara. Why do you keep saying the words
safe because you think that people associate Thailand not to
be safe.
No, because a lot of foreigners who come to Thailand
and have not had the type of spices that we
normally eat.
You'll get diarrhea.
Yeah.
I know so many people who come to Thailand who
will get diarrhea of the first week, whether it's like
from the spice or whatever. You know, bacterias in our
food and calm down. There's bacteria in every food, but
you just have to get acclimated to it, right, Yeah,
and then you'll be fine.
I had some very nice food this morning for breakfast.
Did you have I don't know the name, but it
was like shrimp noodles with a raw egg on top,
like patai. Yeah, this was a kind of pat time,
but it was just delicious. Yeah. The Amman it was delicious.
Yeah, I'm sure Ammon is very safe.
It's one of the most nicest hotels in all of existence.
Yeah, it is nice.
The views could right, Yeah, it's great and best location.
Yes, Okay, let's talk about the effect of Bangkok on
your life. Hmmm, So would you like to share some
stories from your life that relate to Bangkok, queer life
or nightlife in Bangkok specifically.
I think one of the ones that is really memorable,
and it's kind of sad though, is when I was
performing in this place, one of the regulars that would
come past away, and so I decided the next day
all his friends were coming out and we would always
see him, and so I did Mariah Carey bye bye,
and the crowd they were just hugging each other and
crying and they said thank you. It's like a kind
of a send off. So for me, drag has not
always been about just being happy, but it's about getting
through it together. And during COVID, I did a number
hold my hand wearing like a what is it called,
like a suit helmet suit?
Is that the word suit has my suit?
Yes? That?
And doing a number would you hold my hand? And
I would just jerk off. The reaction it really no,
not like take my hand back, I'm sorry, not that
joke away like jerk away sorry. And so there was
just these moments where drag helped me figure it out.
My life during isolation, we did online shows on Instagram
Live and that's how I paid my bills, and that
was through Drag as well. And so the memorable ones
were not always the happiest ones, but how we figured
out how to get through life.
And it was a lot of the times with drag
for sure.
Did you think you were going to die COVID? No?
I didn't think I was going to die through COVID.
I've had other near death experiences, but COVID, I was like,
I won't pass through.
But did you for sure?
There was a moment I didn't know what happened to me.
It tamped into some way, it fucked up. I didn't
know what where I was convinced I was going to die.
Was it like a mental health thing?
It was a mental health thing. I became so deeply depressed.
A microdoes mushrooms and it helped me, But like I
was convinced I was going to die, Yeah, every day,
and I became so fucking depressed. I'm a travel right
to oh, I couldn't travel. It was like I had
to think about what I was without that such a
big part of my identity. And we'd left New York,
which was another part of my identity. I was living
in California in a small town, isolated from the world,
and it was like sunshine and beautiful and we had
no cases, but yet I was so depressed. Yeah, it
was crazy. It was a crazy time.
Yeah, to take away your legs of being able to
you know, w That's what.
It felt like.
Yeah.
Once you've spent time at home in Bangkok for a while,
what changed do you notice in yourself that you just
can't find anywhere else?
What change of living in Bangkok?
So, like, when you're back from traveling, what do you
notice that happens to you? Like, I'll give you an example.
When I was living in New York, I would come
back and I would become the New Yorker again, Like
I was travel Daniel, but when I'm back in New York,
I became sassy Upper west Side Daniel. Like it tapped
into a version of myself that was deeply sarcastic in
Woody uh huh. And I love that version of me.
Madrid's tapping into. Like I've been traveling and then I
come back and I'm like, oh, it's tamped into empathetic me. Yeah,
and soulful me. Because Spain is so sold.
That's the version of you I got last night.
I was like, you're so calm, and I was like,
you do not remind me of any
New Yorker I know, Like you're the most zen New
Yorker I've met.
Yeah, I think for.
Me coming back to Bangkok, I'm reminded I am a
bitchy ass boss and I don't like that. So I
need to kind of like gauge myself and talk to
my therapists about it and take vacations because I am
a nicer version of myself. Overseas in America, everyone's like,
you're the nicest human being ever. I was like, because
I am not thinking about one hundred things. And you know,
the traffic in Thailand really does things to your mental health.
And the only way to get around in Bangkok is
through motorbikes because you'll be stuck in a car for
the next three hours. That's the one thing I don't
like about Bangkok. It's the traffic is bullshit.
Yeah were you last night getting annoyed? What the traffic?
Traffic?
Yeah? I just yeah, okay, we'll move on.
We'll move on.
Finish the sentence. No actually say the whole sentence. My
message to future travelers to Bangkok is and then fill
it in.
My message to future travelers to Bangkok is choose your
own adventure and always be conscious of allowing new experiences
to drop in your lap. You never know what kind
of night you're going to have, the same way you
have last night.
Yeah, and always explore and be open minded.
Yeah, because Thailand it not does even Bangkok, but like
Thailand in general, you will have experiences that you'll never
have again ever.
Yeah, Thailand is like that. It is an amazing place
where Like when I started coming here, I was very
where that the country was different to anywhere else I've been,
and I couldn't quite understand why. Like I was like, oh,
I need to really get under the skin here, make
thy friends, dip into the culture, the ancient culture and
the kind of contemporary culture. Right, there's a sort of
I love the mix of old old old yes kind
of wisdomy wonderful zenness and then that sort of blade
run of futurism right that exists in Bangkok in a
way that it doesn't really exist anywhere else. New York
feels very of the moment. Bangkok feels in many ways
of the future.
Yes, right, there's a very much sense of the future,
but also a place trapped in time.
You can find pockets of stuff like that for sure.
Yeah. Yeah, Actually that's one of the things I wanted
you to tell me. So there's a shrine nearby, Yes, yeah,
tell me the experiences at the shrine.
All right.
So in English, the shrine is the four faced Buddha
or in Tai Paphom in the corner of one of
the busiest central business district of Bangkok, and the shrine
is so revered for the ability to grant wishes to
people that people fly back from all over the world
and you'll see this daily of people repaying their debts.
So what you do is you go when you ask
for what you want, and then if it comes true,
you have to pay for the tribute of dancers. So
you can choose two dancers for six, eight or twelve
and you have to pay if your wishes are when
your wishes come true. And for me, I've asked for
two things and it happened within a month. And so
try your luck and you have anything you want to
come true, go and ask.
Wow, what are these dances tell me a little more.
Oh, so we believe in the caure that these dancers
favor the gods and it's like a tribute. So like
sometimes it's like an offering, so you can offer flowers,
you can offer.
Things the deity likes.
So for example, like Ganesha likes mouse or like statues
because those are their Baliwan forgot the word in English.
There, I won't know the English word. You look like
I have.
Their messenger, or like Ganisha likes bananas because the head
is of an elephant. So those are the tributes you
give to the deity according to what they like. So
in the case of the foreface, but they like traditional
tight dance or a specific type of dance specific to.
Hear Wow anything you want to get off your chest.
No, I am single, so feel free to hit me
on the DMS. If you are a responsible, working human
being who do not live with their moms, feel free
to hit me up.
Tell me so if they asked you to do RuPaul again,
you'll say yes and a hotby for sure. Yeah. Who's
your favorite dragon queen?
Oh my god, so many Bianca del Rio one of
my favorites. Plastic Tiara Derek Berry Eva, La Queen, Marina Summers,
Nikki Doll.
Oh yeah, all the girly girlies. Yeah, I like that.
What's happening with uh drag Race Thailand?
Well, I'm hoping we'll have season four sometime in the future,
but it would be lovely to do in All Stars
as well.
But you know, when it happens, it happens, right, so
that would be fun.
Have they asked you to do something versus the world?
I did it already versus the world? Well, yes, you
mean again again? You know I can't say that.
I'm just checking checking, but they're going to do so.
They've had UK and this Canada versus the world.
Yes, there is Canada versus the world.
Then they did The latest one that I've appeared on
was The Judge for the Philippines one which is kind
of like Philippines versus the World.
But it's like Slaji and Reale.
So they haven't watched that yet. Yeah.
That's an amazing series because they had all the Asian
girls from all over the world come and compete with
the Filipino queens.
Wow. Yeah. The last thing I want us to cap
tore before we let them go is in one sentence,
what do you think drag is?
I usually answered drag is art and with that art
can teach you lessons in life, but also it.
Could really heal you.
I mean, I always come back to that word because
it really does. I think drag is a teacher, drag
is a doctor, and I think drag is someone's best friend.
Wow. That's beautiful.
Thank you.
Another thank you to my dear friend Pangina Heels for
joining me for this conversation and after a night out. Nonetheless,
she is incredible, so make sure you follow her on
social media at Pangina Heels that's h ea LS or
check out House of Heels when you're in Bangkok until
next time. Wayfinder Life Changing Travel is a production of
Iheart's Ruby Studio. I'm your host Daniel Scheffler. Our show's
executive producer is Sierra Kaiser, supervising producer Kelly Kyle and
story producer Ryan Amador, with post production supervision by James
Foster and sound design and mixing by Sierra Spreen. Don't
forget to subscribe to Wayfinder and please rate and review
the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.