391 | When a Child Doesn't Want to Stop: Navigating Termination in CCPT

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I'm answering a question from Laura in Texas.

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About termination

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and preparing a client for termination,

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knowing whether or not the child is ready.

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So,

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I think that's gonna be a really helpful question that we can tackle together.

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Before I dive in,

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I wanted to do a really quick announcement.

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I don't typically do this,

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but because of a couple of circumstances,

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I have two

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spots open in my coaching program that begins next week,

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play therapy professional coaching program,

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26 week program,

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and if you

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have a burning desire and need

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to be one of the most highly trained CCPTs in the world,

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and you are all in CCPT.

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This isn't just something else you're adding to your resume.

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This isn't just what you're going to do with kids 8 and under,

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and then you're going to do other stuff with other populations.

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If you have come to the moment

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where you know

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in the depth of your soul,

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you are CCPT,

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you want to do this forever,

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and you want to do it with the highest level of excellence and care for your kids.

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Schedule a discovery call with me,

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the link's in the shownotes.

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You can

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chat with me for 30 minutes.

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We'll make sure that it's a good fit.

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This is a really exclusive coaching program,

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small groups.

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We spend time together each week live on a call.

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And if you've been thinking about it or if you've been wanting it,

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or if you feel like you're not getting support

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from your colleagues,

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from your supervisor,

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from your clinical director,

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whatever,

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this may be what you've been waiting for,

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and I've got two spots open,

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so it may be meant for you.

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So,

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check that out in the show notes if you want to book one.

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And by the way,

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if you are like,

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well,

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gosh,

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do I qualify?

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We can talk about that on the call.

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But generally speaking,

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you need to have a pretty basic understanding of CCPT.

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And so,

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you need to have listened to at least

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some,

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hopefully,

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a lot of the podcast episodes in order.

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But if you text "CCPT" to 813-421-5437

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"CCPT" to 813-421-5437,

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that's also in the show notes.

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Don't write it down.

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You

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will be able to get

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recommended playlists from the podcast that you need to have listened to,

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and that will help you prepare for the coaching program.

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So,

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lots that we can provide to you in the way of information,

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scheduling a call,

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playlists,

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whatever.

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So,

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check that out if you're interested.

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I'd love to have you

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and

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it might be meant for you.

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So,

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Let's dive into Laura's question.

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And I think that one of the most challenging things that we have is

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when a kid does not want to stop coming to play with us.

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And this is a little bit of the question,

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so we'll definitely dive in together.

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However,

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I want to pause for a sec,

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celebrate something.

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Because

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we all have this

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moment,

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and I think it's helpful for us to just celebrate that together.

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The very last line of the email that I got from Laura

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says,

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side note,

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you converted me

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with the little emoji with the hat and the confetti and the little blower.

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It says,

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I've become singularly focused on using CCPT in the playroom.

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And I'm so thrilled to hear that

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every single one of us has

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The moment

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where

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we were absolutely all in.

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It was a defining,

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clear moment

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where we knew we would never go back.

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And we all have that story to tell.

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So

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I'm so thrilled for you,

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Laura.

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Thank you for sharing that.

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And what a special memory

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and moment that we all carry with us.

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That very clear,

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meaningful decision

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where we were like,

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yep,

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this is,

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this is it for me

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and it's all I want to do forever.

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So,

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so excited.

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All right,

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let's dive into some of this question and then we will process together.

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I have a client that seems to have gone

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through all the phases and stages of play therapy,

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and by what I see in the playroom is ready for termination.

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I can clearly define when she was in each stage

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and in the last couple of months has moved into mastery.

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She's playing in an age-appropriate way and is regulating in session,

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pivoting to a new idea easily when something does not work out.

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I think it will be difficult to convince the client and her parents

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that she's ready to terminate because the parents are still experiencing

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things outside the session that they would like to see change.

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I'm mostly convinced that what remains is related to

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her environment and not to her personal work.

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She's adopted and struggles with attachment,

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feeling accepted,

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sensitive to being treated unfairly,

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etc.

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Her mother also has attachment difficulties,

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which I'm certain are at play here in the continued behaviors.

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Mom needs to be doing her own individual

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work and was until finances interrupted that temporarily.

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I anticipate real pushback from the client as well,

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who views the playroom as her only really safe space

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to feel fully and unconditionally loved and accepted.

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She recently told me she would like to go back to weekly sessions

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after her mom gets a job and their finances improve.

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I'd love any advice you have on how to discuss termination in a situation like this.

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Thank you,

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Laura,

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for the question.

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Let's start with,

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well,

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you didn't indicate how many sessions you'd had with this girl.

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So that would be my only holdout in my answer because if you say 12,

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I would likely tell you you're not ready to terminate.

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If you say 35,

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I would say,

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yes,

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I think you are.

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So,

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obviously,

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number of sessions is going to be relevant as well.

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But without that information,

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here are my thoughts.

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We have termination criteria.

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And we ask ourselves 4 questions.

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And so,

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if

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you have asked those 4 questions,

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Laura,

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and you say,

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yes,

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I do believe this child is ready,

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then you can clinically justify

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wrapping up with a family,

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and you would share

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the reasons why you believe that she's ready to wrap up with parents.

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If you are hearing these 4

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termination criteria,

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question,

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comments and going,

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what the heck is she talking about?

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You may be new to the podcast,

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so welcome.

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Really glad you're here.

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If this is your 1st or 3rd or 5th

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podcast episode,

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you have found

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a CCPT tribe and we're very glad to have you.

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However,

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that likely means that you did not start at the beginning.

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So,

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I would highly recommend you going back to episode 1 and listening in order.

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It will really give you a foundation in CCPT kind of as a seminal training.

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As you are trying to master the model.

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And I've talked about termination criteria several times in other episodes.

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I will really quickly hit highlights for everyone,

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just so that you have some semblance,

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but you would need to go back and listen so that you have more information about that.

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We have 2 clinical and 2 environmental.

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Essentially,

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we are looking at,

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are there no new themes emerging in play?

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And any persistent themes,

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there are no major shifts or changes.

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So those are going to be the clinical considerations.

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Environmental considerations

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are,

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do we have regulate regulation across all environments?

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And

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are the original presenting concerns reduced or resolved?

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So,

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when we reach a point where we think,

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you know what,

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the child might be ready to wrap up,

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we're going to assess

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the child

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against those 4

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termination criteria.

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Now,

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in this scenario,

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you're saying you think that what remains is related to her environment,

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which one might argue,

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OK,

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well,

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she doesn't have regulation across all environments.

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But here's where it gets

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a little

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muddy.

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And I hate muddiness.

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I really try to be clear.

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I try to be so careful with what I say,

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so nothing gets misinterpreted.

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And I don't want this to seem contradictory.

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This is not a but.

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This is an and.

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So,

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we have 4

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diagnostic termination criteria

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that we're measuring the child against.

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Now,

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in this case,

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you're saying,

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well,

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it seems like the holdout is at home.

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All right,

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so that makes us pause because here is the additional layer.

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If the holdout is one environment,

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meaning we have regulation

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at school.

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In the playroom,

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at church,

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with friends,

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extracurriculars,

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everywhere else,

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child is regulated,

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and then there are still issues at home.

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That's going to lend itself toward its relational.

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Please hear what I'm saying.

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It is not that the child is not ready to wrap up,

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it's that there is a relational fracture in that specific environment.

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That the child cannot be fully regulated because the child

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cannot have the support

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that he or she needs

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to remain regulated.

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It's a,

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it's a swirl.

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It's a cycle.

280
00:08:48,859 --> 00:08:50,479
So you go into

281
00:08:51,088 --> 00:08:53,359
an environment where there is not solid relationship.

282
00:08:54,869 --> 00:08:57,830
The child's not going to be able to implement new strategies.

283
00:08:58,580 --> 00:09:00,520
That's just a natural dynamic.

284
00:09:01,809 --> 00:09:02,809
So in this case,

285
00:09:02,929 --> 00:09:03,169
Laura,

286
00:09:03,250 --> 00:09:06,330
I'm hearing it might make sense to transition to CPRT.

287
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:08,760
And here's why I think that,

288
00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:09,630
because

289
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,880
if the child has done the work that she needs to do,

290
00:09:13,239 --> 00:09:16,979
and the issue is because of mom's attachment and child's attachment

291
00:09:17,380 --> 00:09:19,099
and relationship rupture.

292
00:09:20,239 --> 00:09:21,090
CPRT

293
00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:23,280
is uniquely designed

294
00:09:23,659 --> 00:09:26,359
to build communication and trust

295
00:09:26,630 --> 00:09:27,359
and

296
00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:28,719
relationship

297
00:09:29,020 --> 00:09:30,359
between the parent and the child.

298
00:09:30,869 --> 00:09:33,369
And here would be how I would see that unfolding.

299
00:09:33,700 --> 00:09:37,520
The child's going to continue to get play sessions and to continue to do her work.

300
00:09:38,489 --> 00:09:41,080
Mom is going to learn new strategies,

301
00:09:41,289 --> 00:09:42,599
new philosophies,

302
00:09:42,890 --> 00:09:45,030
new ways to communicate and interact.

303
00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:47,169
So mom's getting parenting support,

304
00:09:47,330 --> 00:09:48,710
child's getting therapy support,

305
00:09:49,090 --> 00:09:51,169
and then they come together and they work on their

306
00:09:51,169 --> 00:09:53,549
relationship and their 30 minute play sessions each week.

307
00:09:54,359 --> 00:09:56,179
So we kind of have trifecta

308
00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:57,690
of work.

309
00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:58,780
We know

310
00:09:58,940 --> 00:10:00,059
that a child

311
00:10:00,479 --> 00:10:01,179
becomes

312
00:10:01,599 --> 00:10:03,200
the change agent in the family.

313
00:10:03,979 --> 00:10:04,690
We know that.

314
00:10:04,890 --> 00:10:07,960
So we know that only the child getting CCPT

315
00:10:08,140 --> 00:10:11,099
is going to change the family and everyone therein.

316
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:12,640
However,

317
00:10:12,919 --> 00:10:15,229
when there is a relational break.

318
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:20,919
One of the things that we need is for the parent to do their own work.

319
00:10:21,989 --> 00:10:24,729
So this seems like it would be well suited for CPRT.

320
00:10:26,369 --> 00:10:27,099
And

321
00:10:27,380 --> 00:10:31,309
that would be an easy transition because you would just do your countdown.

322
00:10:31,539 --> 00:10:33,400
I'm going to play with you this many more times.

323
00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,799
And then the parent going to take over and start playing with the child at home.

324
00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,479
So that to me sounds like it would be a really helpful fit.

325
00:10:42,380 --> 00:10:45,530
One of the things we need to be very careful about when we realize,

326
00:10:45,609 --> 00:10:45,809
OK,

327
00:10:45,919 --> 00:10:47,210
we are going to wrap up,

328
00:10:47,650 --> 00:10:49,690
just because it's a standard termination or

329
00:10:49,690 --> 00:10:51,950
because we're transitioning to CPRT or whatever.

330
00:10:52,599 --> 00:10:53,859
It is a phase

331
00:10:54,859 --> 00:10:56,929
We are going to give the child a countdown.

332
00:10:57,219 --> 00:10:58,219
We're going to prepare them.

333
00:10:58,299 --> 00:10:59,500
I'm going to see you 5 more times,

334
00:10:59,599 --> 00:11:00,179
4 more times,

335
00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:01,119
3 more times.

336
00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:02,880
We're helping them

337
00:11:03,539 --> 00:11:04,119
recognize

338
00:11:04,609 --> 00:11:05,340
the closure.

339
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:07,960
We're giving them a happy and healthy goodbye.

340
00:11:08,039 --> 00:11:11,190
There are so many reasons why we actually make this into a process.

341
00:11:11,599 --> 00:11:12,270
This isn't just,

342
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:12,840
OK,

343
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:13,659
we're done.

344
00:11:13,940 --> 00:11:14,239
Now,

345
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:15,520
here's the other consideration.

346
00:11:16,909 --> 00:11:17,500
A child

347
00:11:17,799 --> 00:11:20,299
doesn't know why they were coming to see you in the first place.

348
00:11:21,820 --> 00:11:22,739
They better not

349
00:11:23,659 --> 00:11:23,900
I mean,

350
00:11:23,979 --> 00:11:24,330
if you've,

351
00:11:24,460 --> 00:11:25,690
if you've done your job,

352
00:11:25,739 --> 00:11:27,570
the child has no idea that

353
00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:31,049
a parent sought you because they thought their child was quote,

354
00:11:31,059 --> 00:11:32,479
broken and needed to be fixed.

355
00:11:33,780 --> 00:11:35,659
And so all a child knows,

356
00:11:35,830 --> 00:11:38,929
the only concept a child has is

357
00:11:39,309 --> 00:11:42,369
I get to go play with someone for an hour each week and I get to be in charge.

358
00:11:43,289 --> 00:11:45,229
That should be the only

359
00:11:45,460 --> 00:11:47,469
message that they've ever been told

360
00:11:47,719 --> 00:11:49,109
from parent or you

361
00:11:49,729 --> 00:11:50,890
about why they come to see you.

362
00:11:52,070 --> 00:11:52,429
And yes,

363
00:11:52,669 --> 00:11:53,590
sometimes they're going to ask,

364
00:11:53,710 --> 00:11:54,750
why do I even come here?

365
00:11:54,929 --> 00:11:55,789
What is this about?

366
00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:58,169
Why does my mom bring me here to play with you?

367
00:11:58,710 --> 00:12:01,190
And the only response we're ever going to have

368
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:01,890
is,

369
00:12:02,599 --> 00:12:04,179
Your mom thought that it would be.

370
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,450
Something you would like to be able to come and

371
00:12:07,450 --> 00:12:09,299
play and be in charge for an hour each week.

372
00:12:10,989 --> 00:12:12,059
That's the only message.

373
00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:13,630
So therefore,

374
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:14,599
when you say,

375
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:15,909
I'm going to see you 5 more times,

376
00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:16,700
and the kid goes,

377
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:17,590
why?

378
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,770
Why do I have to stop coming to see you?

379
00:12:21,650 --> 00:12:23,159
It's never going to be

380
00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:26,119
because you're no longer getting in trouble at school.

381
00:12:27,109 --> 00:12:30,830
Because you are not throwing tantrums every day anymore.

382
00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:35,000
Because you get along with your siblings now.

383
00:12:35,820 --> 00:12:35,830
Because

384
00:12:36,739 --> 00:12:38,119
your grades have improved,

385
00:12:38,580 --> 00:12:41,000
there's always agenda and everyone else's

386
00:12:41,619 --> 00:12:42,380
perspective.

387
00:12:43,809 --> 00:12:46,179
That's never going to be the conversation we have with a child.

388
00:12:47,130 --> 00:12:49,349
So our response to that is.

389
00:12:50,369 --> 00:12:50,489
Well,

390
00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:53,510
I'm only gonna see you this many more times,

391
00:12:53,570 --> 00:12:54,630
and then we're gonna take a break.

392
00:12:56,179 --> 00:12:57,840
But you can always come back and see me.

393
00:12:59,619 --> 00:13:02,510
Our phrase at the center is it's never a forever goodbye.

394
00:13:03,719 --> 00:13:06,340
And we make it very clear that it's an open door policy.

395
00:13:06,409 --> 00:13:07,770
If you need or want to come back,

396
00:13:07,809 --> 00:13:08,429
you can.

397
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,669
And we call those refreshers or boosters.

398
00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:13,900
Sometimes they only need to come once.

399
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,989
It doesn't mean they're starting up weekly sessions again.

400
00:13:17,479 --> 00:13:20,789
Sometimes they really just need a reminder of what they've already learned.

401
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:22,299
Sometimes they want to

402
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,260
test and prove that you

403
00:13:24,799 --> 00:13:27,280
are still there and that if they want to come back and see you,

404
00:13:27,359 --> 00:13:29,419
you will in fact let them come back and see you.

405
00:13:31,109 --> 00:13:33,630
And so we make it clear you can always come back.

406
00:13:33,669 --> 00:13:34,750
It's not a forever goodbye.

407
00:13:34,830 --> 00:13:36,530
I'm just not going to schedule

408
00:13:36,789 --> 00:13:38,000
any more playtime

409
00:13:38,239 --> 00:13:39,609
after 5 more.

410
00:13:41,330 --> 00:13:43,380
We're just not going to have any more scheduled,

411
00:13:43,539 --> 00:13:45,049
is the really helpful phrase there.

412
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:47,619
Because then

413
00:13:47,919 --> 00:13:49,200
if they follow up with,

414
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:49,549
well,

415
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:50,140
why?

416
00:13:51,770 --> 00:13:53,109
The kids that don't want to leave,

417
00:13:53,530 --> 00:13:54,770
they're going to have a ton of questions.

418
00:13:54,890 --> 00:13:55,789
Be prepared for that.

419
00:13:56,429 --> 00:13:58,210
And you're going to give factual.

420
00:13:59,349 --> 00:14:00,809
Helpful answers.

421
00:14:01,270 --> 00:14:02,049
You don't avoid,

422
00:14:02,309 --> 00:14:03,510
you don't return responsibility,

423
00:14:03,630 --> 00:14:03,750
oh,

424
00:14:03,830 --> 00:14:05,710
you're wondering why you're not going to be able to

425
00:14:05,710 --> 00:14:07,770
come see me after that and then say nothing.

426
00:14:08,719 --> 00:14:10,359
You're going to give an actual answer,

427
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:11,219
which is

428
00:14:12,130 --> 00:14:12,250
Well,

429
00:14:12,349 --> 00:14:13,950
kids don't play with me forever.

430
00:14:14,869 --> 00:14:17,229
Kids play with me for a while and then they stop,

431
00:14:17,710 --> 00:14:18,989
but they can always come back.

432
00:14:20,369 --> 00:14:20,619
OK,

433
00:14:20,719 --> 00:14:21,650
that is the truth.

434
00:14:22,020 --> 00:14:22,409
Although,

435
00:14:22,419 --> 00:14:22,580
look,

436
00:14:22,659 --> 00:14:22,859
I mean,

437
00:14:22,940 --> 00:14:24,140
there are kids that have made a bid.

438
00:14:24,219 --> 00:14:25,900
I'm going to see them until they're 18.

439
00:14:26,099 --> 00:14:27,719
I'm going to see them until they get married.

440
00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:29,599
I'm going to see them for the rest of their lives.

441
00:14:30,419 --> 00:14:31,820
I had 10 my word,

442
00:14:31,859 --> 00:14:32,760
I'll never forget this.

443
00:14:33,099 --> 00:14:34,359
I had one that said,

444
00:14:35,099 --> 00:14:35,380
no,

445
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:36,119
I'm going to

446
00:14:36,260 --> 00:14:36,900
hang out with you.

447
00:14:37,059 --> 00:14:37,500
She was older,

448
00:14:37,580 --> 00:14:39,179
so she didn't call it play really,

449
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:39,859
but she was like,

450
00:14:40,059 --> 00:14:41,400
I'm going to hang out with you

451
00:14:41,859 --> 00:14:42,159
until

452
00:14:42,619 --> 00:14:43,260
I die,

453
00:14:43,340 --> 00:14:45,679
and then you're going to be my therapist in heaven.

454
00:14:47,789 --> 00:14:48,390
And I was like,

455
00:14:48,469 --> 00:14:51,070
that's predicated on the belief that I'm going to die first,

456
00:14:51,150 --> 00:14:52,309
which I probably will,

457
00:14:52,429 --> 00:14:54,609
but I just don't know how I feel about that.

458
00:14:54,750 --> 00:14:54,989
Anyway,

459
00:14:55,070 --> 00:14:57,090
it was like this really funny

460
00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:59,130
whole thing she had worked out

461
00:14:59,510 --> 00:15:01,270
that she was going to play with me her whole life until

462
00:15:01,270 --> 00:15:03,109
she died and then I would be her therapist in heaven.

463
00:15:03,219 --> 00:15:03,460
So,

464
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:03,950
you know,

465
00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:04,909
there are kids that are like,

466
00:15:04,989 --> 00:15:05,109
no,

467
00:15:05,179 --> 00:15:06,250
you're never getting rid of me.

468
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:07,510
So,

469
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:08,909
in that kind of scenario,

470
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,140
you have to have

471
00:15:10,559 --> 00:15:11,059
clear

472
00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:11,820
answers.

473
00:15:13,150 --> 00:15:15,500
We're only gonna see each other 4 more times for now.

474
00:15:16,429 --> 00:15:19,219
We're going to have 5 more scheduled and then we're going to take a break.

475
00:15:20,289 --> 00:15:21,429
Kids don't come forever.

476
00:15:21,570 --> 00:15:23,520
They play with me for a while and then they stop.

477
00:15:23,849 --> 00:15:26,669
These are all facts that we can share with kids that help

478
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,330
answer questions that they have.

479
00:15:29,479 --> 00:15:30,130
And

480
00:15:30,919 --> 00:15:32,099
it seems as though

481
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:33,789
she might,

482
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,820
because of attachment issues,

483
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,599
really need a very intentional termination process.

484
00:15:39,719 --> 00:15:40,429
In other words,

485
00:15:40,739 --> 00:15:41,919
kids with attachment issues,

486
00:15:42,039 --> 00:15:43,270
kids with trust issues,

487
00:15:43,599 --> 00:15:45,679
kids that really don't have

488
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,580
a happy and healthy home life,

489
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,190
they really cling

490
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,520
to CCPT and to the environment and to the relationship.

491
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:53,030
So,

492
00:15:53,039 --> 00:15:55,940
you may want to be very,

493
00:15:56,059 --> 00:15:56,900
very clear.

494
00:15:57,609 --> 00:16:00,130
About all of these things with this particular client,

495
00:16:00,570 --> 00:16:01,109
because

496
00:16:01,729 --> 00:16:03,890
she's going to be grieving the loss of the relationship,

497
00:16:04,010 --> 00:16:06,130
she's going to be grieving the loss of the environment,

498
00:16:06,450 --> 00:16:09,169
she's going to be grieving the loss of the time that she gets

499
00:16:09,169 --> 00:16:11,750
to spend with you and what she feels when she's with you.

500
00:16:12,650 --> 00:16:13,340
But

501
00:16:13,659 --> 00:16:15,559
kids have to learn that

502
00:16:15,940 --> 00:16:17,960
they take what they've learned with them.

503
00:16:18,340 --> 00:16:20,500
You're not the reason that she is happier.

504
00:16:20,739 --> 00:16:22,859
You're not the reason that she's more regulated.

505
00:16:23,020 --> 00:16:23,880
She's the reason,

506
00:16:24,419 --> 00:16:26,400
and they have to test and prove that.

507
00:16:26,859 --> 00:16:28,280
And they also have to

508
00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:30,280
experience happy and healthy

509
00:16:30,380 --> 00:16:31,210
goodbyes.

510
00:16:31,619 --> 00:16:34,739
They have to have closure in relationships to know what that feels like.

511
00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:38,570
And that is one of the reasons why we're so careful

512
00:16:38,830 --> 00:16:40,549
with that termination process.

513
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:41,669
So,

514
00:16:41,679 --> 00:16:41,900
Laura,

515
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,299
I hope that that is helpful.

516
00:16:43,359 --> 00:16:43,559
I mean,

517
00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:44,150
obviously,

518
00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:46,440
we all deal with kids that don't want to stop,

519
00:16:46,559 --> 00:16:47,900
parents that don't want to stop.

520
00:16:48,309 --> 00:16:49,200
But in this case,

521
00:16:49,260 --> 00:16:50,710
if you can at all swing it,

522
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,059
I would absolutely promote CPRT.

523
00:16:54,599 --> 00:16:58,239
And if that is not going to be an option for whatever reason,

524
00:16:58,719 --> 00:17:01,239
then just be very intentional with your process.

525
00:17:01,390 --> 00:17:02,640
Termination is a process,

526
00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:03,179
y'all.

527
00:17:03,929 --> 00:17:05,969
It is not something that we do haphazardly.

528
00:17:06,010 --> 00:17:07,319
It's not something that we do,

529
00:17:07,329 --> 00:17:07,560
like,

530
00:17:07,770 --> 00:17:07,920
you know,

531
00:17:07,989 --> 00:17:08,800
off the cuff.

532
00:17:09,358 --> 00:17:11,819
We have very purposeful phrases

533
00:17:12,010 --> 00:17:13,030
and timeline,

534
00:17:13,050 --> 00:17:14,280
and we count down

535
00:17:14,489 --> 00:17:15,270
and we

536
00:17:15,489 --> 00:17:18,670
say very specific things with intention behind our words.

537
00:17:19,410 --> 00:17:23,449
There's a lot of thought that goes into termination to make it the

538
00:17:23,449 --> 00:17:26,829
most effective that it can be and the easiest for kids to navigate.

539
00:17:27,290 --> 00:17:27,358
So,

540
00:17:27,380 --> 00:17:28,829
I'm really grateful for the question.

541
00:17:29,329 --> 00:17:30,229
Hope that was helpful.

542
00:17:30,290 --> 00:17:30,890
I love y'all.

543
00:17:30,969 --> 00:17:31,849
We'll talk again soon.

544
00:17:32,010 --> 00:17:32,290
Bye.

545
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,079
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

546
00:17:37,329 --> 00:17:39,209
For more episodes and resources,

547
00:17:39,410 --> 00:17:44,170
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.