2022 NFL Head Coach Hot Butt Rankings

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Speaker 1: Be around the NFL podcast. Didn't kill their wife, didn't kill my wife. It's the cadence from the Chris Westling podcast studio. It's around the NFL, devoid of context. That's a really strange way to open the show. I'm Dan hansas Uh in a studio filled with some heroes, Greg Rosenthal Mark Sessler both innocent of any spouse homicide as well. So we're off to a great start so far, right, so far as at least when it comes to Mark that we know of, Like, there there's a well, there's previous lives. There's there's just set up Mark like a bowling. There's children, presuppose there's children. I thought we saw one the other week, one of your lost daughters or whatever. So who knows what what could have happened. I've been open about my my other daughter. She's out there and she just wants a hug. How is your little birthday? What did I say about my wife? Mark? That's all that That's all that you take away from the birthday celebration is that she survived. It was excellent. Um the wine and cheese? Is it wrong of me to ask the wine and cheese? Excellent? She was very happy with that. We went out to restaurant, We went to the beach and watched the sunset. It was very nice. Did our names come up during your time together, Gregor Marks? Not a single time. Sometimes you gotta disconnect. We've been in the studio a lot. You seem weirdly bothered by it, as if like you have special feelings, and its like wondering if Emily was like, I wonder what Mark's doing right now? Kind of my wife. Alright, alright, it is another episode of Around the NFL. Thank you everybody. Uh, we're churning out the content. We hope you're enjoying it. We got another great show coming up today. It's our annual check in on Hot butts um and I feel like I don't have to give this disclaimer, but some in the football industry get a little uncomfortable even talking about job security. Is if to talk about it on our program like this is to celebrate it, or to not see the human side of the game. We see all that, we got it. We are above the tree tops. We're just this show is about the reality that six to eight head coaches will lose their jobs in the first week of January or second week of January. That's just the way it is, Greggy, and we're gonna talk about which coaches are in the most danger of having that fate. Well, I think some people also are just uncomfortable with with the word butts and then also the sound drops that that you play of what it's like for a man's butts to be hot. But I got an app point, Well, it is it's a audio you know medium, And I think one of the things the audience I think enjoys about the show is we kind of take them inside the game. But like, do we need to get a new actor set of actors every year to you know, make these sound drafts. I think that's unnecessary. The well, listen, that's that's a fair criticism. But the show is what the show is. I loved that an acting gig allowed someone to actually come up with that sounded beginning. I mean, that's probably a lower level action. Got to bring the whole oven in. It's a whole thing. It's yeah, it's a tough situation, but yes, we'll get into that um before we do. By the way, how are we We had Mina comes on the show this week. There was a lot of buzz on social media about the photos she posted, Mark, I know you were particularly upset about it. Where are you at emotionally after she did put up? I don't think Mina did it on purpose, although in a follow up tweet after you, I think did. She made a choice what she thought was a better look for her and then kind of threw you to the wolves a little bit with your blinking shot. All I have to say is that I have done that same thing in group photos, right. I look for the best version of me, and it's like someone if someone else has to get sent down the river a little bit. You got, you got a tough move, but you gotta do it so I get where she I'm not upset with her choice, right, I'm upset that the photo was given to her as an option to begin with by our producer. Because Sean Kelly has been excure extremely talented, good attitude driven individual sitting in today for just for grave Digger. I don't understand the thought process how that got past your filter. Unless there was something malicious on your end, then Sean doesn't have a malicious phone in his body. Kelly doesn't, no, no, no milicious phone in the body. What exactly happened was I was asked to send all the photos that I had taken professionally, as you've seen on the Instagram, put up the photo in the studio. Yeah, you'll see it. It's going to go up. And um, it's really right now because I put the camera on me while I'm talking. Obviously, well I have you doing that? But no, it's it's it's up. And there was three photos taken and one of them just happened to have Mark's eyes closed. And I had sent all three photos out to Greg and Justin and they had sent over to me for a photo. So now Greg, so the filter went. It went not for I go to the That's not what I'm trying to do. But no, this is a good investigation photos that just that was a little nugget that we need to add to our investigation. This is very important that I sent the photos out and they were given to mina Um by Greg. This is a water gate level. Well, first of all, why is it so important to you Mark? Like the sad thing is when we saw this, we knew this is gonna ruin Mark's week. This is gonna be I do. I will say it turned funny at some point to me. But but the process, now that I'm hearing about the faulty process, that to me stands out cheese. We're at a little post beach camp frozen yogurt. Mina asked for the pictures. I asked justin and shot into the pic for the pictures. They send them copy paste. There you go. I didn't. And it's not like I'm examine the photos like you. No one would notice unless you actually, like, you know, make you know, make it closer, focus in on Mark's face, or they all look the same from far away. God forbid we be detailed. And I think other thing was Mark had everything else buttoned up. If you look at the photo, uh, and you could check it out on Mina social you have the cool uncle pose with your arms crossed, confidence, everything's there. The only thing you had to do at that point was not blink. And it it makes me think of Chris Westling, our late great friend, who blinked in every picture until weirdly he met lakisha Um. And so maybe there's a connection to west Maybe his spirit was in the photo. And so if that's the case, then I that I'm going to look at it differently. Well, do you remember blinking actually during one of Shawn's shots, thinking like that sucked. I think they don't use that one. It is funny, though, because we send out these you know, photos or pictures from our podcast all the time on the around the NFL pot you know, twitter feed, and that's great, a lot of people follow that. But because Mina was on the show, not only did the NFL network with four point six million followers retweeted we never got a retweet, but the NFL main account with thirty million also retweeted it. And so you just they I think the employer is telling me what they think of of my overall. I think it also tells us, you know, Mina is being a little modest about Oh, I only get spotted in sports bars. NFL network everyone very thirsty to get the Mina photo out there to the mass masses. But I guess that's a good look for us as well me And it came on our shows. Great guest, great guest, informative, personable, the whole thing. Um. All right, before we get into our study of coaches on the hot seat, the ones with the hot butts buttoxes that are very warm and sometimes sizzling and outright melting again, that's just the way it is. Greg. I think this is what Greg is referring to that maybe some really enjoy it. I'm still struggling with the whole idea that we have to make it four categories, not five. My mind is racing with some of these guys. Let's just touch on. We'll get to Todd Bowls later in the conversation. A first year head coach with the Bucks, but he is going to be without his quarterback Tom Brady for a period of time, to the way Bolls put it, to deal with some personal things. The Brady absence was discussed in advanced and the ideas that he'll return after next week's preseason game against the Titans. In August twenties. Here's what Bolls said to the media. Tom has been excused today. He will be taken anywhere. He'll be back sometime around after Tennessee. He's gonna deal with some personal things. This is something we talked about before training camp started. We alloted this time because he wanted to get in and get chemistry with the guys and go through two weeks of training camp knowing he wasn't gonna play the first two games. Uh, he didn't want to take away reps from Blaine and Uh, Kyle and as well as Griff as far as going into these next two games, and it's something he needs. We trust him. We talked about it. It was like it was scheduled way before training camp and he will not be here until after Tennessee. There's not a lot of variance to his vocal. Asked if the issue was health related, Bull said, it's a personally to That's all I can tell you. He also added when I asked if it would impact the commitment to the team going forward, Bull said, per our conversation, I am not worried. No, but Mark Greg wasn't worried before the show, so let's check in with and I wasn't worried. I just said, it's unprecedented, right, I mean, we in our time doing this podcast, and from what I can think that there isn't a player that leaves training camp for this long. It's going to be at least about nine or ten days, maybe longer. Context wise, Brady himself is unprecedented. Everything different. The only reason why I I wanted to make sure it got into the show was just the question uh two Bowls about his level of confidence that he'll be ready and that he's going to play week one, and Bowl said, there's always going to be some doubt, and but he has a pretty high level of confidence that Brady will start this season open. Just just those words being thrown out there, there's no point in speculating what this is, uh, or or why speak to me just to be safe. He's adding that, you know, back end, But I see what you're saying. I don't think so. I think if he knew for sure the day that Tom Brady was coming back, he would say that and whatever it is, obviously hope everything is okay. But just just the fact that he said a pretty high level of confidence and there's always going to be some doubt. It's just just something a monitor. I would note that our friend and Rappidport on NFL Network set stressed end quotes Tom Brady is fine, calling it more of a personal family issue. So I think the you know, there's always some doubt that if it is a family issue, it could be his extended family his We don't know, uh, that it's a situation that is, you know, in midstream and and you hope he'd be fine to come back then, but there's a chance. I don't think it's Tom Brady is sitting at home wondering if he wants to play football still, all right, So there it is. That's the greatest player of all time. And that's the update of it. I think we'll see him in a couple of weeks. He'll be ready. He's not on the hot but never has been, maybe not since his Michigan days, you know, but two thousand one season, certainly there were a lot of a lot of Patriots reporters wanting to bring Bledsoe back for those playoff games. You know who else is hot was? But forget about Brady the kid back then, Bill Belichick once upon a time had a hot seat in New England before that two thousand one proven nothing as a head coach. At that when he had not proven anything. He was coming off a bad season in New England with a you know, not a great roster. And then he did beat Bill Parcels in the playoffs as the Browns coach. He did prove sometimes and they started one in three. Um. But now he's untouchable and forever we'll be untouchable. I would imagine until he decides to retire. But that just goes to show you, uh, this exercise that yes, sometimes these teams would be better off having patients, but that's not really how our league operates. So we're gonna go through, Um, we're gonna go through all the thirty two coaches here, and we're gonna put him in categories for the hot butt rankings twenty two. Uh safe, first degree burns the buttocks. Second degree it's getting a little you know, it's a little touch and go put it that way. And then third degree, which is danger, danger danger. This is not a good situation. And we're going back to seun Kelly filling in for Grave. Digger did a nice job, um showing us last year's results. He sent us a note with last year's results for third third degree burns. Last year, for instance, all three of us had Zach Taylor and you may say, oh, oh, idiots, dummies then went to the super boat. Well, he needed to prove it last year. I have no problem that he was on that list. I think you'll understand probably where he's gonna be for all three of us, although I won't speak for everybody. He's off the list this year, but otherwise we've all had Matt Naggy also and Greg Wisely at vic Faggio also on third degree burns and he got taken out as well. So to get in that category, you're in deep trouble. Uh. And we'll see who else has uh someone in that category. I really appreciate the enthusiasm Sean has for his job, the energy that he did this without being asked, especially because it makes me look good, you know, I had I was the only one that had Joe Judge there in the second degree too, so that that was nice. Dan and I did have Zimmer in there doing both on that um. But I was like, uh, Mark on the tennis court, and you guys were like, my kids now know. It's a nice performance by you. And although it's not supposed to be predictive, so that actually defeats I'm I'm going again, that's really predictive. Zach Taylor really did have three third degree. We're trying to explain like where things are right now, not telling you what. So you're right that a little predictive. Like I thought, if Joe Judge has a bad season, he's gonna he's gonna be in big time. Why did we not how did we not have Vic Fongio on a hotter seat? Dan that I had a mistirst degree as you did. Uh, I don't know. Looking back, I'm not sure why. It was a long time ago. I can't remember my thought process on that. So do you want to um, do you want to go through? Go through like the safe list? Maybe I'll read my safest here and then you guys tell me if you guys all helped build up to third degree. Okay, yeah, let's build to that spot. Okay, I think that's it. More get hot or don't get colder. So this is this is safe, this is Hey, it's a summer, it's August. You're gonna sit by the pool. You're gonna pour yourself a glass of cold ice coold lemonade. Life skill. That was kind of gross. That was awful. Did that get your cannot do that? If that's happening again in this episode, I'll check you later. Well that triggered the big time. I mean if if I him saying if that happens again, which which that sounds nice. You know it's that it's the swallowing and then the business after what the human enjoying himself and feeling relaxed. I don't I want them to enjoy themselves. It was the throat process. I don't think I'm gonna have anybody. We'll see. Let's see. This is who I have his safe personally. John Harbaugh, Stop me whenever you know, Sean McDermott, Matt ebra Flos, Zach Taylor, Nathaniel Hackett, Matt Lafleur, Doug Peterson, Andy Reid, Sean McVeigh, Kevin O'Connell, Bill Belichick, Brian Dable, Mike Tomlin, Kyle Shanahan, Mike Rabel. Does everyone do we have the same safer? Does anybody have one of those figures in a from category? I have two of them in separate places, very interesting without saying where they are. Who are the two names? Uh, Mike McDaniel, which I really I had him safe up until the eleventh hour of this process, and then I had a strange vibration UM and Kyle Shanahan MHM, and I have called Shanahan in a completely separate category. That's not part of our exercise that I can explain later. Okay, So he's not in first second or see him as like a hot butt because he's not a great coach. I just sense um Shanahan esque chaos down the road. Well, when I had an extra section, he wasn't he wasn't one above, But now I combined, and to me, Shanahan is is safe because if something's gonna happen there, if they had a disappointing season, I truly believe John Lynch will be gone and Kyle Shanahan is essentially John Lynch's boss, and that he could survive. How I do this exercise is like, all right, let's get pretty close the worst case scenario. Uh, what's there? Heat? And I think Kyle Shanahan, even in a worst case scenario is safe. Can I explain? Then? Where where do you want to just explain quickly. I have it in my own category category called I Smell Chaos, and I think it's going to be the rare thing where if things go poorly and if there is in in issues inside the house, that Kyle Shanahan will hop scotch to another job. That's what I'm predicting. Within your realm, though, where would that fall? Would it fall on? First? Second, or third degree? In between in between safe and first? Because I think Kyle Shanahan deciding to leave. Not they think he's not a good enough and if you will do I think he's unsafe. Today he would be in the safe category, but I'm telling you, I'm predicting something weird happening. He's safe to you, but something could happen and he could leave. So I struggled with this one. But one of your names I did have in the first degree category. Uh. And there aren't many one and done in NFL history, So putting Nathaniel Hackett there feels harsh. But there is a new owner, and just that alone, that alone and the high expectations, I just put him in first degree. New owners come in, they like to have their own guys. And I'm sure George Peyton and Nathaniel Hackett feel great. The roster looks great. Russell Wilson's there. Russell Wilson. You know, I'm not always happy with his offensive coaches over the year. If for some reason they go six and eleven and Russell Wilson doesn't play very well and there's a new owner, then I would think he would be in some trouble. I like that. And and that sound you heard first degree is you're getting into a car in a very hot summer day, and it's a little sticky, you know, if you especially wearing shorts or something. It is not the most comfortable thing. But it's also not anything to be alarmed about. It's pretty normal everyday occurrences. And so you said so many names. I think I had one or two that were in my safe that weren't in your, like Lovey. Did you say Lovey Smith? I did not say love Smith. I ultimately don't think they would go one and done two times in a room. Weird team that they just sort of see a little longer. But maybe I'm yeah, well, we'll get that. Do you want what's the best way to do this? Should I just go through my first degree? Or do you want to go through your first degree? Do you remember how we did it last year? Let me go through my first degree and then you guys again will uh, we'll talk about it. So first degree again. It's getting a little sticky in the car in August, kind of gross, but you just power through it. Put the A C on. If you're lucky, leather seats first of all as a problem. But if you're lucky and you have air conditioning in the seats. That's a nice, very stick. Anyway, I got Cliff Kingsbury coming off the contract extension. But you want to talk about chaos. I don't know what's going on in Arizona and if and one thing that I've thought about, um, Greg, you were talking about like what you think about worst case scenario. I also think about the teams that have high expectations or a certain level of expectations. If things crater ownership could be like, oh my god, what are we doing here? And we've already seen this is the same team that fired a coach one and done before Cliff king Barry also drafted a quarterback in the first round in the top ten picks two years in a row. Could Cliff get fired one year into an extension? Probably not. But I have been first degree also Arthur Smith, Kevin Stefanski, Dan Campbell, Josh McDaniels, Brandon Staley, Dennis Allen, Nick Sirianni, Todd Bowles. In my first degree, many of those were in my safe when I combined it down. Ultimately, I only had about ten coaches in any sort of trouble first, second, or third degree. To me, Sirianni, he's gonna be fine even if they even if they did poorly, I think they have a real belief in Brandon Staley in Los Angeles that would protect him. I also don't think they want to pay uh coaching contracts like two years into it, so they seemed like a team. I think that would avoid that Ebra Flus did you say him? He was in your Arthur Arthur Smith? I also have in my my safe because I just even though there's a chance they might have the number one overall pick, I just feel like they made a purposeful rebuild here and are just gonna see it through. Okay, well, I'll quickly tell you who's in my first degree. I have Pete Carroll that that could be also just Pete Carroll decides to walk away. But I think that there's a little bit of tumult there if this season Brandon Staley just based on the fact that you have like the Michael Jordan of quarterbacks on your your roster, things go poorly, the Michael Jordan of quarterbacks. I think it's like there's so much optimism hope around the Chargers that if they floundered, he would be he would be blamed. So that's that's the moment Sean that you want to put on the social post, just a big like picture of Mark, ideally the one from yesterday with his eyes closed, and then it just says Justin Herbert is the Michael Jordan of Quarters on the social media from Michael Jordan Justin Herbert Dominique Jordan's pretty high. Pretty I mean, at least at this point, it's a little so Pete Carroll, Brandon Stilley, Mike McDaniel just based on the Dolphins being weird, based on the fact that a year from now there will be no outrage if they went after Sean Payton again, it's gonna be a different scene if it didn't go well. I think Mike McDaniel is gonna do well though. Uh, Frank Reich just be by and when we did our slogans mine for them was good but not great Part seven? Or is the owner going to be down for part eight? If things were really milk toasts there? Um Lovey Smith justin that's a weird organization, Arthur Smith. Things went terribly in Atlanta. Dennis Allen m hmm, Dennis Allen is the cliff is later on? Yeah, so similar. We have some names that that I have higher up. I had that Dennis Allen there too, to be He's a really interesting first degree because he's a first time head coach with the Saints and normally would think there's like this long leash, but he kept everyone and it just feels like a continuation of the Sean Payton era, whereas you might not get the same consideration that everyone gets now. I think Dennis Allen is almost a proxy for this entire organization that is all trying to keep collecting paychecks. And I include Mickey Loomis there. I include that entire coaching staff that's been there forever, the personnel group who's done which has done a great job. To be fair, Uh, they've all been there together, and I think they all want to keep collecting those paychecks from the Benson's together. So there's not a lot of indication Gayle Benson would actually pull the plug after one year, but there's high expectations and and I think Dennis Allen could could go out. I also have Stefanski in my first degree. It's been so weird depending on what happens with Watson to change coaches, but either way, it's you just can't look at the history of Jimmy Hasselman put him like you just can't put them anywhere else after a pretty disappointing and then I put Robert Sala here, uh as well, I guess we'll mention, uh they did signed Dwayne Brown. So on paper, the offensive line looks pretty good, the defensive line looks pretty good. The roster looks better. I think Joe Douglas and Sala will be fine. Um, but worst case scenario they win four games again, there there's gonna be they're gonna be in some heat. I moved solid from first backup to safe just because I don't think that he's the issue at all there. I think they love him right first. To me is kind of like, we don't think it's gonna happen, but if if it three and four, he would be in grave danger, I think, and just knowing the Jets history of the last ten years, it could happen. But you know, what's important for him is that their defense plays well. He's a defensive coach. They struggled on defense last year. The roster looks much better. I think it's a good looking defensive roster. If they're better than average defense, he should be fine. If they're they're a bad defensive team again, that ends up being in trouble reflects poorly. If Joe Douglas was swept out and another GM was come to what was brought in with powerful and wanted to make changes, that that gets ugly. What about Dan Campbell? I had him in first, had him safe. Now that's a real rebuild. I mean yeah, I'm just how did they only win three games? I have this memory that they were in every game? I mean they were, Yeah, they were, they got better in um, I have them there because there's so many amazing vibes around the Lions that you do forget that they won only three games. And uh if with higher expectations, what if they created again and he put together back to back three win seasons, would owners should be cool with that? Would the Dan Campbell vibe potentially wear off? First degree means I think they'd give the I think they'd give the third year. That's generally the idea that you get three years and then after three, if you haven't made the playoffs after three, you generally are fired. I mean that's it's almost like an NFL rule. But I put him similar to Levy, where it's like if you win five or six games, everyone's gonna be okay with that. That's at least my my view of it. And uh I had Sirianni there only because Greg, They're expectations are pretty high and if for whatever reason things went to hell, maybe he would be on the chopping block. But if I don't know if you're I don't know if you missed Wednesday's show, but that was my number two overall pick over Eagles nine and a half. Go to the bank, lock it up. The rainmaker arrived early. I don't know where was the rainmaker on Wednesday. Greg, it's got to build your brand. I don't I don't want my brand to be putting other people's money at stake that I'm not allowed down. And what if I told you you're on a TV show that does exactly NFL game debut will be back this year Friday afternoons. But that doesn't that ton of the gate what you're saying. I don't think Greg struggles to build his brand. And there was some like negativity in that statement. No, I'm just I don't think that's a weakness of yours. I don't know, I don't know. I don't like this at all. Let's take a break and we'll get to second degree in earnest. All right, welcome back again. This is not a celebration of I can't wait for this person to get fired. This is just reality, a place where Titans fans don't live, for example, but here we stay in like it's like for Dan, it's a little bit of a celebration for for Mark and I think we're we're normal. But this is sort of speaking of brand. Hot Butts is sort of your brand. So I think there's a joy that it's Hot Butts Day. It's like, um, you know, it's like, oh, the football season is almost here. There's fire. Is the joy that I have by doing this podcast and talking to you guys and sharing these conversations with a grand audience. Now, I am not celebrating these men being in grave danger. Their butts are on fire. I understand that second degree. It's getting gross, it's getting a little bit painful. It's like bacon in a frying pan. Another issue for Mark, who doesn't like meat products. I like the sound effect. This is calming to me. All right, you you change it up this year effects. I love it, mixing it up. But now imagine this is a buttox still ruins it for you, doesn't I mean that would be more troubling. Yes, the gigs buttocks in the in the other reality of it, but that's fine. Hit it again. Here we go. So I have LOVEE Smith and second degree just because I don't trust the direction of the Houston Texans after poor David Culley. Where is David Culley? Honestly, where is he on the beach? Right now? That's the other things like these guys that I can They're still getting paid a ton of money for the next three or four so so and I know it's Davis Mills hype season on some level, but you know, and the roster maybe isn't as bad. I think somebody else banged me over for the Texans. Yeah, but what if they suck and Lovey Smith is not a flashy name brand and maybe someone catches there are you know, the gift of the guy walking with his girlfriend and the other girl, the more attractive woman walking in the other direction, Well there there, I can see that happening to the Texans. I mean, there's pretty strong speculation and there was reporting that they were going to hire Josh McCown that the McNair family is in love with Josh McCown and that the timing of the Brian Flores lawsuit might might have partially impacted their decision. To that said, I put him safe because I I am projecting a little bit, because I do think they'll win six games and then I think it'll be fine. And I didn't find it to be I like Levey Smith. We interviewed him at the combine. He was a cool guy. I don't think there's a lot of sizzle um to the higher and I feel like they would move if they felt like the organization was I hear you. But I do think there is similar to Doug Peterson in Jacksonville, there is a feeling amongst the players and the people covering that team that's like, hey, we've got someone who knows how to be a head coach here. Um. Unfortunately that's a reflection on David Culley, who seemed like a nice guy, but generally the players this year, you look at Levey Smith, that's a legend in the game. So it's a little different. Um, it starts more about your organization. If you have to one and done coaches. I think there's gonna be hesitancy to be paying both of those guys if you're the ownership. It's been done before. In fact, it's been done in the A T. N Era. I was looking at one of them coaches and then in two thousand thirteen, Rob Jadinski with the Browns, two thousand sixteen, Chip Kelly with the Niners two thousand seventeen, Jimmy Tomsula with the Niners two thousand eighteen, Steve Wilkes with the Cardinals two thousand nineteen, Freddie Kitchens with the brand. How many of these guys did we interview? Are we? Are we behind this? Well? You know what it is. We go we when we went to that owners mean, it's like we get the first time head coaches, it's like and then they're like a little more choosy as they get. It's like, we got McVeigh, Andy Reid, Remember we got John He's just a mention. We got McVeigh the first time we went to ramskip not getting him right now, We're not two thousand twenty one, the offer mentioned missing in action but a millionaire David Culley almost every season, and David and Urban Meyer didn't even make it a full one. He lasted thirteen games before going back into whatever hole he was living in. All right, now, it's just not good. That was a little strong. He's a human too, I get it, but it was not a good look. I don't think any of those men's like, um, you know, their their livelihoods in mind when he took that job. Just didn't seem like a good human vibe there. And you're right, he is a human. But at least I think that could be debated, Like I think it's it's up for the second degree. I have a lovey I have Frank Wright for the reasons that Mark said that. You know, listen, last year was a cattle cataclysmic situation for the Colts the way that season ended, and somebody's head had a role, so it was the quarterback. If the season goes poorly again, they're probably gonna come from the coach, and that's Frank Reich. Mike McDaniel, I have second degree for chaos theory reasons. First time head coach and second degree they said it wouldn't be done. Two reasons why chaos theory behind the scenes with the Dolphins. And also, listen, we all like that he's a different cat and he come to the game differently and he connects with players perhaps differently. But maybe what if that doesn't work. I'm not totally sold that the brand is gonna play here. I hope it does because he seems like a breath of fresh air, but we have to I need to see it work, and uh, you know the fact that he doesn't he doesn't have a quarterback. I totally believe in UM is an issue as well, so McDaniel. I have solid second degree, just because I think this is such an important year both for Sale and Joe Douglas to show progress in the organization. Woody Johnson is back from his UK ambassador thing, and I imagine as he gets older, if they have another dread dreadful season and the playoff list dropt, drought stretches to another year, something could happen. I follow the team too long? Would he would he? Um leaving the UK has matched up pretty you know, one on one with a lot of troubles for the UK, just politically and everything. I'm just saying things have gone south since they missed what he's leaders. Things haven't gotten like I would say great since he came back here either it's a it's just we're all the empires on the decline. Uh. I got Pete Carroll and second degree. I had him first degree last year, second degree this year. It's a slow process getting there. Ron Rivera I have in second degree and finally Zaddie Mike McCarthy, who I really thought about the highest level. But ultimately, you know, I think second degrees where he belongs. What do you guys think? Right? Yeah, I disagree with you there. I I have them in third degree. I guess, at least for me will go. I have Rivera and Zaddy in third degree. I only have three names there and you can probably guess the third uh to me? Like like I said, no coach comes back for a fourth season if they haven't made the playoffs. It's it's almost a rule. It has happened. There was one recently, but it's very rare. Now. Technically, Ron Rivera did make the playoffs this first year, but they won seven. I think they won the division and and hung in a playoff game. You can't say it did it happened? They went seven and nine. So I think this is a team and I am projecting a little bit that could be in major trouble this year, and if you go seven and nine, seven and nine, four and thirteen or five and twelve, the record to me matters more than you made that playoff run the first time around, and I think Rivera would be gone. So to me, he's third degree because I think they need to win this year and I think he's in a brutal situation. I I have Ron riverin third also, but I do think he's different than some of the other people that we put in third before because he's brought stability to a really shaky organization during a turbulent time. That said, if they wind up being the worst team in football, the floor falls out my second real quick. Kevin Stefanski, I just think that this season has the chance to use a lot of darkness, and it might be I think if you're Kevin Stefanski, this went from being a really positive experience. You were coach of the year too. You were overseeing something that you don't want to talk about every day. And yes, maybe you have a better quarterback on the field, but this was not Kevin Stefanski's issue. There's a lot of pressure on everyone in there. I feel like there's anxiety and I could just sense that season turning really into awkward to talk about it, but there's a strong chance they'll have a inferior quarterback on the field. The whole scene. Well, absolutely, I also love Cliff Kingster. I just put him in second because for what mention, what you mentioned, Dan, but I take it up a degree just because I don't care. I also don't care at all if a coach signed a new contract. I think most of these owners don't give any care about that at all. There's eighty guys floating out there getting They don't let a float f other right away. But this season, if they if they really flatlined. I think Cliff Kingsbury's entire kind of program and what he's built around in the offense and the way it's faded the last couple of years is just a bad year. I think he'd be a scapegoat. I would think things would have to and I have him in first degree, so I I hear you. But I would think you would take like a meltdown for well, that's what I'm saying. If there was a meltdown, say like say the last five games of last season for the Garden, right standing that over a season that was and that was a that was a meltdown. They had one game where they sort of other than that win against the Cowboys, they would have lost five straight to lose the season. I think it was five or six. Maybe it was four or five, but either way, and they weren't competitive. That's why I have him in second degree, just like Mark here he has signed through or else he would have been in third degree. Like if if it wasn't for that contract, I would just put him in third before the contract was signed, maybe I think just this year. So it was so okay, I get it. But you can totally extend him one year like that's been done many times. You can totally extend him two years. Why did they extend him five years? Well, that kind of speaks to the point that they're probably not going to fire him to give him that. That's so much guaranteed money. It's not under the salary cap, but they have to pay him through. I would, but imagine something. Imagine this, you play the a f C West, which is gonna be a problem, and let's say you go one and three against the a f C West, which is not more it's totally feasible, and then you're out coached in three or four games against Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVeigh. The Cardinals have no identity at that point. If that happens, that's a disaster. I'm talking about it like everything that you think about Cliff Kingsbury. I think if they go seven and ten and then it's a bad seven in ten and it's not where it's six and eleven, you don't have DeAndre Hopkins for the first part of the season, that is going to cost them a lot. But I'm just saying that things went bad and you win sex games six games and it's an unappealing six games or seven games out the door. I'm with I'm with I'm with you, Mark. That's why he would have been third degree for me, if not for the contract, because they've committed to Kyler Murray and these two guys clearly have some issues. I mean, Kyler Murray and the organization clearly had some issues. When things got ugly, and that's when you learn a out who's really tight. They split apart, and the the the organization decided to keep them all together and get everyone paid, but it didn't feel like on the field, Kyler and Kingsbury were kind of like in sync. And then off the field, I think there's questions whether they're in sync. So to me, if there's seven and ten but they have a mediocre offense, I think he could be gone. So I have him second degree. I have Pete Carroll. I agree with you, second degree. I think they'll do fine, But the ownership situation there is just hanging. At some point, it really looks like Jody Allen will sell the team. It's probably not in the next year, but it might be in the next year. Uh, And that that kind of hangs over it. And then I have Frank Reich in the second degree. And this is where I believe I would hire Frank Reich as one of my top six seven coaches in the entire league as a play caller, but I feel like you have to be second degree if it's playoffs or you'll lose your job. And I think he's absolutely at that point. If they didn't make the playoffs, they're gonna fire Frank Reich. He all but said that, Jimmer say, which takes us to third degree, which nobody wants to be. And according to the chart last year, listen to Zack Taylor survived, survived that there you can you can Naggie did not Nagy and he did not. So here is third degree and it's on my list. It's just the one man. It's the guy who's in a darker place than anyone else. It's Matt Rule. Well he's obviously on ours. Yeah, it doesn't mean he has no chip. It's back. But you could have just used the old soundclip. You didn't have to bring that man back in. It's like you enjoy it, Dan, No, that's that's just what it's like to be sitting on the seat that's literally on fire. That's all. I like it better than the swallowing of water. It was lemonade, lemonade ice cold. Uh yeah. So Rule obviously has had very little success here um with the Panthers, and there's been you know, he did impress Mark. That was a nice little feather. And it feels like a long time ago. Uh it was. It was before he had coached, And I mean I think that David, you know, you want to go season after season without finding a quarterback, you're gonna sink on and he's and he you know, so where's he trying to see through? Two seasons? He's ten and twenty three, fired his offensive coordinator um in the middle of last season, and you know, he said some things in the press that have been put a target on his back a little bit. And now he's, you know, deciding between two former you know, first round picks who were jettisoned by their previous teams. So maybe Baker Mayfield saves his job, but I'm not as high in that possibility where we are right now. I think Rules just done a lot of trouble for an organization that as an owner in David Tepper, which we've heard time and time again, he's a guy that like wants results and wants to be relevant. Well, guess what if they don't make a playoff run or win at least eight games. I think one of the first things he does, it's like one of those things. If Rule lasted the season, he would be the one like immediately is announced as soon as the season is overtype vibe. And he's the guy that signed the seven or eight year contract when he when he was hired, which threw a lot of people off, and there was such high hopes. And I never understood that the first was partly because of the Jets that he just there was two teams that really wanted him, and that's when you get But that wasn't exactly what it was like, or at least the coaching staff and the Jets had reservations, so they pulled out. Just mean there was a bidding that the agent got them thinking there was a bidding. Word. Yeah, they got a lot of commitments they got got. That's what they got. Like Matt Rule and uh Temper when they first met, had like a fish boiled together at Rule's house and they just they got along, like very swimmingly shrimp or some sort of sea fish. I've read this interviews. I read this interview on the athletics, like that clams or shrimp or something, and it was with it was with Joe person in the dark, just guessing what the humans are eating. Fish boil it was from the sea. I mean, fish boils are great. That sounds like something that would absolutely I mean a shrimp boil. That sounds like totally take back tradition in areas of Wisconsin and along the coastal upper grades. I'm gonna look, I'm going to look up. While you discussed large Scandinavian Oh, you're saying there was oh yeah, there's fish boys. It does sound kind of gross a fish fish boil to me, shrimp boil excellent. So Rule had this interview with Joe Person in the Athletic, and I think it was intended to kind of show the human side of where he's at, Like there was a lot of talk about his family, what he did on vacation, different restaurants. He's on a diet right now. If you've seen Matt Rule, he's lost a lot of weight. Uh, he's he's only he said, eating eggs, meat, and vegetables and no sugar. I mean eating zero sugar. Just seems that's no dairy, no sugar. Um, that doesn't sound fun. And and there's just a lot of like what's he binge watching? And just a lot of like this, I think to kind of humanize to the point of this exercise, like this guy is in a tough situation. But these are the types of interviews that happened in these types situations. And I felt bad listening to him because ultimately he was very defensive talking about how he wants to be in Charlotte long term, that he he essentially knows what the conversation is that he loves the area that his kids are in these great schools that I don't want to be going back to college. People think he's just gonna end up going back to college. Like this is what we've done. I think we've done a great job. We've built up this level of players, and teams go in cycles, and that cycle came to an end. We've weathered the storm, and I feel like we're in the process and it's gonna show. And it's just sort of the he's trying to convince himself he's you know, because otherwise it's freaking miserable. I mean, there is sad to have this thing hanging over your head and your kids are going to school and you've gotta be worried about that. And I think he knows he's the guy in Vegas. He is the favorite to he's the guy to be. It's always one guy. And that's why I kept a list of just him a third degree, because there's always that one guy, it seems like, and nobody wants to be that guy. And you probably it's probably a huge weight off as your shoulders once you finally do get fired, because it's it seems like a tough place to liok. I guess I do do some projection because the reason I didn't put McDaniel on my list at all, I had him safe was like, I think two is going to be better, and if he makes two a bet, I like, I believe in Mike McDaniel, So I didn't put him there. And I do have a feeling with that defense. The way it is in Baker Mayfield and the schedule that they have, I just think they'll be better. I think they'll be they might be competitive, and I have him third degree, but I don't have a mob by himself. That's all right, you like to and you think they'll play, they'll do well together. But for this exercise, doesn't it shouldn't it be at least you know, to take to account that the owner met with like Tom Brady to try to sell a Sean Payton as my head coach, Tom Brady as my part owners slash maybe quarterback, Like, doesn't that feel like you only gave me four categories? I had five before, but more He was in a little different to Shaun Watson as well. I mean, he's constually seeking to upgrade, but he's a first year head coach. And the owner. You know what we know about him, and let's come out like I'm just saying you have him in the same categories. Bill Belgian another category I needed another category the car it's warm. So I I, even though I just gave a rule by the way to love, I put in McCarthy and Rivera there, partly because of projection too, especially with Rivera that I think he's in a tough spot. And I think McCarthy, like uh, our buddy Frank Reich, is in a playoffs or else and I think that's just a tough spot to be And to me, I feel I feel like the Colts and the Cowboys are both more likely than not to make the playoffs and then they would be fine. But if they don't, I would think both of those coaches would would be fired. And I have a little less faith in McCarthy. I have the same three people as you, Rivera, McCarthy, and Rule. And I think McCarthy could make the playoffs and lose a playoff game if it was um in ignoble fashion, the way that last year is unfolded, he could be gone then. And of course it becomes annoying to always talk about this but the Sean Payton thing sits out there as a weighty pressure on Mike McCarthy. I almost thought of putting the Chargers in first degree just because Sean Payton's associate told The Miami Harold that the three teams he wants the coaches the Chargers, the Dolphins, and the Cowboys. That's what I'm saying about the upgrade. An associate of Sean Payton told The Miami Harold in the dog days of July that the three teams he had circled were the Chargers, the Dolphins and MS totally safe. Well, now, okay, you guys have convinced me put him in first degree. You're right, Okay, you got me. Just that's crazy. He's still a first year head coach. But I guess it's crazy. But everything's happening in Miami kind of crazy. That's a plus. I put n s Ol in there and Hackett for that. Okay, you convinced me. You know I can be convinced. I'm not inflexible in respected by the way. Um I did reach out to Matt Rule on this and we actually got him on record. I'm still so you're on winding preamble about the serious nature of this is is crumbling. You're giggling while that was playing. Also really goes again sat a former guest of you around the NFL or broadcast I think it was on the network where Gregs threw us under the bus. Remember that Teddy? Oh yeah, I said, you guys were not a believer. You can see his face like he's face just like you know, sucking on a lemon. He was. I was forever like in his corner rule. He's a New Yorker. And I asked him Hampton's or Jersey Shore, and without even that hesitation, he said Jersey Shore. And I was like, all right, this is a dude. I want him to be successful. But also if as a journalist, if I get a quote, I'm gonna play it on the show. That's all it. He follows me on Twitter, so I'm like, I'm rooting for him hard. There you go that I would that would add for me as well if he did. I don't think he follows me into I don't know head coaches are are they on Twitter? Typically he is. I don't mean he's active. He's not like, you know, throwing a ton of stuff out there. He follows you nice pop. You follow him? No, of course I do you follow him first or I don't. I don't recall how that gonna throw rule, follow and just see what happens. Same. He hasn't um tweet efficient for a follower. He hasn't tweeted since. As I said, not an active participant, but you know, monitoring. We're gonna do this, Dan, We're gonna take this show in under an hour. It's been a while, it is. How does it feel? It feels good. It almost feels like I got a little time here to give James White a shout out. One of the greatest Patriots of all time, took that mantle from Kevin Falk as the third down back, and of course the legendary performance in the Super Bowl. Just happy retirements. Too bad, a hip injury ended his career. A clip, that's all. We We do have some analysis from Mark Sessler after the super Bowl that day. He's a top ten Sessy's a top ten analysts. We have some good analysis from Mark. Yeah, top ten analysts. You ready for this. I couldn't get a handle and what they were trying to do. James. I did not believe in the James White experiment out of the gate, and the Patriots kind of proved all that wash of negativity that was on Twitter about what they were doing. They proved it wrong. What's up with my voice there? This was? That was that's like two in the morning up to the Super Bowl. I asked you to get a few clips. Maybe West would be involved, just like give me some options. Uh, you know from that day if there's anything fun and you know what that My takeaway was, we were all weirdly low energy considering it was the greatest comeback of all time. But I think it was late and that was probably deep in the show. But maybe like if you listen a little longer, you get a little West Easter. I get the end. James White also, and I think he's that game. Of course against the three, they don't obviously come back without what he did. I think what fourteen catches in that game on mey was dominant and also um caused me and I mentioned this before I had written my my game story. Uh, you know, midway through the third quarter and then James White starts going crazy along with Tom Brady and it's just like paragraph by paragraph like the Polaroid and back to the future is just like having to be erased bit by bit so I you know, James, all the pre rights three were lost little I love James. Yeah, there's sort of like a cool like take like Damage Check had it too, and I and I like it. It's like they should have given James Waite an m VP that day Catches touched. I'm gonna give it to I'm gonna give it to the quarterback who led the greatest comeback of all time as much as another link to the Patriots glory years. That's this is what, this is what the Patriots fans are gonna enjoy. He'll be in the Patriots Hall of Fame. But that play is weirdly underrated. An incredible goal line run from a third down back who was tackled originally at the four yard line by Dean Deon Jones and someone else, and he makes the bounces off two guys and then powers through. And I don't think anyone thinks of it as a great play because it's like, oh, it was inevitable. Then I think a ton of people think of it as a great It was is one of the greatest goal line runs in NFL history, Which one won the one the game. See that's what I'm saying. But he broke three tackles. Do you remember the way the Falcons were playing? Just say it was well they were spiritually broken at that pay were with you. I take nothing away from James White, but there have been many more impressive runs in football. It was a literally it won the Super Bowl. So that that alone the circumstances. Okay, that's a nut. Alright, Uh, good week of shows. Thank you to everybody for listening. Next week, starting with Monday, we'll have a full rundown of all the preseason action in week one. I care so little about the preseason I won't to be at the show, so we're gonna have right. We taped this before the couple of games on Thursday, but we want a nice clean all the preseason games in one on Monday. Get to watch that Patriots offense tonight. So if you want an in depth breakdown of all the action in week one of the preseason, all the superstars on the in the sandbox that is the NFL, the sideline watching the game, make sure you're tun tune into I'm like actively telling people not to listen to Mondays show and freaking weird move, A weird move that Dan is like rooting against the show that he is also suddenly assigning Mark and Greg a ton of weekend work. If we're gonna be watching every single preseason, I would think if if we're if we are presenting Monday's show as an in depth look at the first We're got to be some game that's involved. I think there's gonna have to be a lot of Mark for you, a lot of the NFL Network because they do play a lot of the preseason games. I'm game for. Yeah, I want to see some of these these guys, these good so here the enthusiasm in the boy's voices, that is what you're gonna get with Patrick Laban and I'll see you on Wednesday. Thank you to everybody again. Thank you to Sean Kelly. Good job, buddy. Not an easy gig, but he just stepped right in. Thank you until Monday. Everybody, have a great weekend. Never remember he the car Ah