P-Valley: Carlos chats with Nicco Annan (Uncle Clifford)

00:00:00
Speaker 1: You have these rappers, these comedians, these straight black men who are highly uncomfortable with the sex scenes between you, your character of the Clifford and Little Murder, and they say things like, well, y'all should have gave us a warning if that was going to come on the screen. We feel uncomfortable watching that without a heads up. How do you feel about that when you know it's coming from our community.

00:00:30
Speaker 2: To that, I say congratulations, because that is what art they supposed to do. Are they supposed to create conversation? Are they supposed to stir up the pot? It is supposed to be reflective.

00:00:43
Speaker 3: Stay tuned.

00:00:44
Speaker 1: We'll get to my conversation with Nico Ahnen right after these quick ads.

00:00:59
Speaker 3: Welcome to Realny with the King. It's me Carlos King.

00:01:03
Speaker 1: The King of Reality TV and one of the most sought after executive producers in reality television with over ten years a production experience. Twice a week on Reality with the King, we'll sit down with my friends across the entertainment industry, recap our favorite reality shows and revisit unforgettable moments that we are still talking and tweeting about. Hey, rain drops, So usually I talk to your favorite reality stars or people from the unscripted world, like Megan McCain who's a talk show host from the view right. But today we have an exclusive interview with one of my favorite actors on television who also stars on one of my favorite scripted shows, Baby. I'm talking about Nico Onen, who plays Uncle Clifford on stars as p Valley.

00:02:08
Speaker 3: Nico and I both talk about what it's like to.

00:02:11
Speaker 1: Be gay black men born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, and how our upbringing change our adult life. In addition to that, we get into representation of openly gay men and women on television. We talk about how these rappers and comedians who are heterosexual men have an issue with seeing two actors have a love scene on the show.

00:02:43
Speaker 3: This one is so good. It's a bonus episode.

00:02:46
Speaker 1: I can now wait for you guys to hear it, just in time for tonight's season two finale of Pea Valley. Without further ado, here is my conversation with Nico Onen.

00:03:02
Speaker 4: Down in the valley with the girls.

00:03:06
Speaker 2: If you're throwing vans and you know they're gonna shake it, Hey, what's Carlo and you have a boys?

00:03:15
Speaker 1: We have so much unpacked here, So I want to get started by giving your flowers. I am a Detroit native born and raised.

00:03:24
Speaker 4: What I'm gone?

00:03:26
Speaker 1: What up?

00:03:27
Speaker 4: Go?

00:03:28
Speaker 3: Three? One three?

00:03:29
Speaker 1: I was born on the east side of Detroit.

00:03:33
Speaker 3: What about you?

00:03:34
Speaker 4: We still love you? I was. I was born over on off Joy Road and Clarity.

00:03:43
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, that's where I had like first you know, birth through third grade, and then I moved. We moved to Rosedale Park over on the west side, so six miles south Field Freeway.

00:03:55
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, I just love it.

00:03:57
Speaker 1: And you do a good job at wrapping the d I'm an openly gay black man born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, moved to Atlanta, Hollywood to make it big in the reality TV world. And when I look at you, Nico, you remind me of somebody that little gay black boys from Detroit like me when I was a kid could watch this show and look up to them because there was no representation of that when I was growing up. And I get that a lot from my community, and I'm sure you.

00:04:33
Speaker 3: Get that a lot too.

00:04:34
Speaker 1: So what does it mean that you are breaking down, you know, walls in this industry in terms of being this phenomenal actor but also just this phenomenal human being.

00:04:47
Speaker 4: Thank you.

00:04:49
Speaker 2: Come on, now, what does it mean? It means I'm doing my job. It means that I am present and not my job as working over for the network over at Stars. I'm told being my job as a human being. I never like aspired to be in everybody's house, you know what I'm saying.

00:05:09
Speaker 4: Like I was like, I'm not trying to be that much of a hole, you know.

00:05:14
Speaker 2: I feel like for me, I really, for real, I really just was trying to be the best that I could be, you know. And I think through that process that this has happened. I just wanted to tell stories. I just wanted to be an artist. You know. At first it was just I want to dance, and then that dance grew into storytelling in a different kind of way.

00:05:36
Speaker 4: And I say to the boys.

00:05:38
Speaker 2: And the girls and the vims that are of younger generations, sometimes the opposition is the very thing that shapes you into being.

00:05:48
Speaker 4: The tool to be able to be used. There were so many times that people told me that I was not enough of this or too much.

00:05:56
Speaker 2: Of that, whether that was my size, whether that was my color, whether that was physical attributes, or whether that was my personality and throughout it all like God had just made a way for me to be used in a way that I didn't necessarily see coming. And I would also say to them, don't be discouraged by the slow burn, the slow burn of your career, of your love, of your life, your aspirations, whatever that is.

00:06:23
Speaker 4: I'm speaking generally.

00:06:24
Speaker 2: But the slow burn, because the slow burn of this moment for me is indeed a part of the secret sauce that makes it so palpable for most people. It is what makes me be able to digest this moment. So when you say, like how do you feel and all this stuff, I do not feel any different than I did when we were doing the workshop plays of Pea Valley or Pussy Valley at the time in two thousand and nine, when we were going to the Lark Theater, when we were going to the Hip Hop Theater Festival, when we were into the Apollo, when we were going to Marcus Vineyard and the other like different places where Katory works out the place or in DC.

00:07:09
Speaker 4: You know, this has allowed me to do that.

00:07:12
Speaker 1: You are inspiring the people, and you're also inspiring me because what you're saying is so true We're both openly.

00:07:19
Speaker 3: Gave black men from Detroit, Michigan.

00:07:21
Speaker 1: We know that in Detroit at the times we were growing up, there wasn't much happening in the city. So the fact that I tell people my story of being twenty five years old, you know, I was an intern at BT at twenty five, Whereas most people will say, child, if I'm not a millionaire by that age, I'm gonna give up, you know, my trajectory. And here I am at forty two years old, living my best life. But I did that because of the trajectory that was meant for me. And if I would have given up early, I would not be talking to one of the greatest actors of all time. So being somebody in this business, were you always Nico?

00:08:03
Speaker 3: Were there ever.

00:08:04
Speaker 1: Times you put aside your sexuality to focus on the work or were you always somebody that felt comfortable being openly gay when you got your start in Hollywood?

00:08:14
Speaker 2: So the answer to that question, I think goes back to me a little bit more into my training. So in high school, so I went to cast Tech.

00:08:21
Speaker 3: Ooh, you're smart. Just a my listeners know. Cast Tech is one.

00:08:26
Speaker 1: Of the accredited high schools in Detroit, and here's some tea for y'all. I took the test to go to cast Tech and I failed.

00:08:33
Speaker 4: It's all right, it's all right. How many times did you take the test?

00:08:37
Speaker 3: Once?

00:08:38
Speaker 4: Why you ain't go back?

00:08:39
Speaker 3: I was embarrassed.

00:08:40
Speaker 2: See see that's when you needed an Uncle Clifford rule to tell you sometimes you got to turn the window to the door. Don't just take one exit or one reason as your only yes or no. There's always, always, always another way. When people would be like, oh my god, you know, Cliffered, just give up the club, and I'm like, listen, there is where there is a will, my god, there is a way.

00:09:04
Speaker 4: So turn that dough to a windows. Where did you go?

00:09:07
Speaker 3: You're gonna have me embarrass myself some more?

00:09:09
Speaker 4: N you went to Servanty, don't do me?

00:09:12
Speaker 3: I was probably where'd you go?

00:09:15
Speaker 4: Child?

00:09:16
Speaker 3: I went to Fennie High School?

00:09:17
Speaker 4: Don't play.

00:09:18
Speaker 2: My cousin Tania, God rest her soul, she went to Phinney don't play. And my mama went to Kettering. Okay, see see you you you got the uh the respectability politics going on in your head.

00:09:28
Speaker 4: You need to let that go. You need to let that go.

00:09:31
Speaker 2: See you are one of the people that I've been talking about online with, well, why they gotta sound like this this because this is how we talk. Hey, So this is who we are. This is who we are. So we're not gonna be ashamed of that. We're gonna embrace that and show the royalty that we all are.

00:09:44
Speaker 1: So anyway, I was just ashamed that the school is now burned down to the ground and Feinni no longer exists.

00:09:51
Speaker 3: But I'm with you, Miko.

00:09:52
Speaker 2: Okay, come on, It's called a phoenix. But we got to move on because I'm not gonna gonna give you there you go.

00:09:59
Speaker 4: Okay.

00:10:00
Speaker 2: So back when I was in high school, I was my my drama teacher, Marilyn McCormick. Most people who went to CAZ and had some experience in the arts know this woman.

00:10:11
Speaker 4: She is a pillar in the community.

00:10:13
Speaker 2: She told me we were doing an improv sketch show and I was in the Pia Guild and it's kind of like Saturday Night Live.

00:10:18
Speaker 4: Or Mad TV.

00:10:20
Speaker 2: And so there was one day we were performing a show. It was probably like maybe fourth or fifth period. You know, I'm really going back into high school, right, and there were we were doing this comedy sketch and I was.

00:10:32
Speaker 4: On stage, but I couldn't.

00:10:34
Speaker 2: I couldn't get my lines out because there was some heckling coming from the audience with someone like the football players or the jobs, you know, just the hyper masculinity that was there. I've always been Nico. To answer your question, Yes, I've always been Nico. I've never been taught to be ashamed of who I am and what God made me to be. So when this heckling was coming back at me, I was waiting for one of the teachers that are in the audience, you know, to kind of calm the kids down, you know, like get them to hush up, And I went to We had two shows that day, and in between the shows, I went to Miss McCormick and I told her. I was like, mc you know, you got to get these kids, you know, you got to get them together, you know, make them, you know, like quiet down. She said, that's not my job, Nico. That's your job. You're on stay you control the audience. So when you ask me that question, has Nico always been Nico?

00:11:26
Speaker 4: There has been.

00:11:27
Speaker 2: From that moment, there was something that changed in me that allowed me as a performer to know this is how you can take up space when people say that you are too big, you're too loud, you're too jazzy, you're too much pizazz, whatever that is. How is it that you can then use that and be present and use that as your superpower, As one of my friends, Delon Burns Size says in his new song Superpowers. So for me, that was about just being present. You take that principle in and of itself and you match that to what acting is intended to be, and that is being.

00:12:04
Speaker 4: Child.

00:12:05
Speaker 3: We are not done yet.

00:12:06
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more of my conversation when Nico will be right back after this quick break.

00:12:17
Speaker 3: This is Reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King.

00:12:20
Speaker 1: Let's get back into this insightful conversation with Nico. We have to get into your character, Uncle Clifford. We have some iconic characters in drama series from Olivia Pope and Scandal, Annalise Keating from How to Get Away with Murder and now Uncle Clifford from Pea Valley. Talk to us about who did you research in order to take on the essence of this role, because when I watch it, I literally cannot see anyone else playing that role. But you people say certain roles are meant for that person. Although you know a lot of actors auditioned for that role. I feel like that role was created for you. So what was that process, like you auditioning and then getting the role.

00:13:13
Speaker 2: Well, the first part of your question of who did I research and stuff like that, I didn't research anybody.

00:13:19
Speaker 4: I absolutely did not. I allowed myself to dream.

00:13:22
Speaker 2: I asked Torri, where when I first read the first sides besides of our part of the script, I've told this story. You know, this process all started with five pages. It was five pages, two scenes. Uncle Clifford was only in two of those pages. The other three was Mississippi Mercedes and somebody else.

00:13:43
Speaker 4: I don't even remember.

00:13:46
Speaker 2: In whatever it was, another character and it just grew from there. That was she just wanted to hear how it sounded out loud. It was a salon series essentially, that happened that she was having at her house. She was a writer an residents over at the Lark Theater Company in New York back in two thousand and nine. They commissioned this stuff, and she, as a writer, was like going through it. So I asked her, I said, oh my gosh, what is the story behind this, Like why are you creating this character? Because the description is what caught my attention. Eyelashes dancing like butterfly, wings and nails like eagle, talents like claws emerging from the shadows Uncle Clifford. She is equally masculine and feminine. So when I read that description, I was like, Oh, this just don't say drag. This doesn't just say flamboyant, This just doesn't say gay. So I knew that there was something special and tangible here. The two references to those animals of the butterfly and the eagle, they studying them. What eagles and butterflies do has been a part of the work, and the reference to the euryba deity Ola coun I think a lot of times in my discovery and journey and playing Uncle Clifford, a lot of people try to put on what they think or what they may know of the community and the hate and you know, all of that weight that.

00:15:16
Speaker 4: Can come with it, the discrimination.

00:15:18
Speaker 2: I am blessed and in the space of being able to know my roots, you know, and I don't even know them as well as I feel I should, you know, to be fully transparent.

00:15:30
Speaker 4: My dad is from Ghana. My mom is here.

00:15:33
Speaker 2: I went to Ghana for the first time when I was ten, so my mind was opened. So when I thought, when I was in my research as an adult getting this character, I'm just looking at all the different things. What are pieces that can come to me. One of the pieces that came to me was the African ancestry that the show has always had, and I knew it was lace in there. Victory never said to me anything about you know this specific deed. I discovered it because on the page, and just to give you guys a little context, on the page, it will say for like, for example, miss Mississippi, she moves like O'shoon and her waves are and if you don't know, O'shoon is the goddess of water, for the deity that embraces water, and that's why Mississippi the river, Mississippi her name. The way she moves, the way she dances is very it's very fluid, much different than a Roulette, a whisper, a gidget, a Mercedes. Each of the girls have a different dance style. So when I started to think about Uncle Clifford, I found about and read about this eurobu deity, Ola con Olacun being back in our African ancestry was always identified in both masculine and feminine measure. Sometimes there would be fit hair, face, gold, jewelry. Sometimes they would be just a masculine face and body. But they it was said that when you embrace both of those equally, you can be two power. So they locked ola Coon up in a chest, chained around the chest and buried Olacon at the bottom of the ocean because the pressure of the ocean was the only thing.

00:17:09
Speaker 4: That could suppress that.

00:17:11
Speaker 2: That imagery and that story resonated for me for a level of resilience, a level of strength that I felt that a person could have when you do not allow society to say you are too masculine, too feminine, blah blah blah blah blah. That's a real in depth version of why. But then doing the production and the play, that is the stuff that taught me being in the world. The director and Nataki Garrett for the play. The fully produced play was done in twenty thirteen, fifteen, one of those at Mixed Blood Theater, and she had said to me one day, she was like, Okay, so Nico, it's time to go. We're gonna go and get your nails done and send you to the barbershop so you can shave.

00:17:55
Speaker 4: And I was like shave what? She was like your beard? I was like, I'm not shaving my beard. Why not shave my beard? Oh?

00:18:02
Speaker 2: You know, you know for the role. You know we need to start. You know, you can do dress rehearsal and things like that. And I was like, no, she has her beer. And there was a story behind that that's connected. You know, I won't even go too deep, but the story connected to the you've seen a taste of it if you paid attention episode one, season one of why her beard is the way that it is. And then they wanted me to get nails, and to get nails crytics truly glued on and everything. That was an issue for me because I was in Sank Paul, Minnesota. I'm in a different neighborhood. I'm in a different city. I don't know this place. I don't know the dangers, the pitfalls, where's the bad neighborhoods. And it really brought on to me the reality of the weight that non binary people and have to walk around in this world with.

00:18:55
Speaker 4: So I took again, that's an example for all the listeners.

00:18:59
Speaker 2: That's an exam of when I talk about the adversity shaping me. So, yes, they want me to do this one thing and I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. But in that space, I was able to see and imagine what it could be, like, Oh, if I take the subway back to the place my Airbnb where they got me staying, Oh, I may really have to go Detroit and like, you know, fuck somebody up. Oh, I'm gonna be fighting with you. Do you know what I'm say, I'm gonna be fighting with nails. I bet you. Clifford has had to go through that.

00:19:30
Speaker 4: I bet you.

00:19:31
Speaker 1: Oh.

00:19:31
Speaker 2: So that is a part again, connect that to why I'm going to keep my beard. This is not The Pink is not a drag club. The Pink is not Langston's in New York. It's not like your open gay party like that, you know, and we're down south. The Pink is a castle that Uncle Clifford has been able to create to have her identity.

00:19:54
Speaker 4: Do you understand what I'm saying.

00:19:56
Speaker 2: That it is a place where people can be who they want to be, whether that is Corbyn or whether that is miss Mississippi.

00:20:04
Speaker 1: The thing about the show is it's rooted in reality, based on Uncle Clippers World in Mississippi. And what's funny is I created a reality show called Bell Collective, and Bell Collective is based in Jackson, Mississippi. And what's funny is Patrick am Polk is one of my mentors and friend, and he said to me, bitch, you know, we watched Bell Collective to get the accent and the vocabulary and the language right so that when we write these words for the characters.

00:20:37
Speaker 3: Is rooted in really Mississippi.

00:20:40
Speaker 1: And that's the beauty and authenticity of the show, of you being a great actor and just the believable nature that you guys bring onto the screen so much so you have these rappers, these comedians, these straight black men who are highly uncomfortable with the sex scenes between you, your character of a Clifford and Little Murder and they say things like, well, y'all should have gave us a warning if that was going to come on the screen. We feel uncomfortable watching that without a heads up. How do you feel about that when you know it's coming from our community, especially people in the entertainment industry who you would think.

00:21:25
Speaker 3: Would know this is a role that you guys are playing.

00:21:29
Speaker 4: It doesn't surprise me.

00:21:31
Speaker 2: It doesn't surprise me because that is a part of what human natures we do. You know, when you get uncomfortable with something, you either try to make fun of it or you talk about it. It ruffles your feathers to that. I say congratulations, because that is what art is supposed to do. Are they supposed to create conversation? Are they supposed to stir up the pot? It is supposed to be reflective. I think sometimes people can be shaken up. Let's just say, because we are really striving to be real, like real on.

00:22:04
Speaker 4: The screen and in the moment.

00:22:06
Speaker 2: We decided when we did the pilot presentation for this, all right, we're doing it. We literally it was our fonds, Jail Fons, Nicholson, Brandy Evans, Shannon Thornton, el Rica myself. We were all in the set of The Pink and we were like, okay, we were all in character, we were dressed, and we were like, y'all, we we up here on our floss. All right, we have naked. Let's tell these stories. What better place to get naked? When we stay down in the valley where the girls get naked it's not about clothes. We're talking about heart, we talk about mind, so that you can truly see who these people are. And I think that a lot of the community, whether that's the people who are represented in the show, I think sometimes you haven't seen such audacious boldness. There's lots of great black shows out there or shows that deal with our stories.

00:23:04
Speaker 4: I salute them. I support them.

00:23:06
Speaker 2: I think it's been a challenge to be able to be so authentic where I say at the repass, oh, you know, I need something for the chitlins that I'm going to get, and they come and it's a nice fresh zip lock the little containers that you get from the supermarket, you know that you can get with the little blue lid or the green lid or whatever. And I was like, oh no, no, no, no, no, I need like a spaghetti used tulp aware bo and I need a piece of fall huh. No, this needs that's what you're gonna put the chitlins in, or you're gonna give me another red bucket. But that's not gonna fitness burke in purse. You know what I'm saying. That's what I'm thinking about. I'm really thinking about, Oh if you ain't got no bacon sheet to bake your biscuits on. You take a piece of the fall when you first move into your apartment, or if y'all ain't got it, you take the fall your dad out, you put your biscuits on it, or you as a kid, you take the little nine to nine cent biscuits. And he was making donuts. You know what I'm saying, because you couldn't go to the like It's about the ingenuity to me, so it goes beyond just the sexuality. That's the part I feel that sometimes people have ignored or have chosen to ignore for so long. But I'm going to say to you, Carlos, also as many people that there are that are ruffled by their feathers, I'm proud and I have to salute because I don't think we do this enough. The brothers and the sisters and the thems that are out there speaking and being vocal and advocating. When Leon Sanders was talking about, yo, I need to have Uncle Clifford come and do the kickoff. You know, when Snoop is sending me a message and he's advocating online about how much he loves the show, that doesn't mean that people are quote unquote connected to the community or in it.

00:24:48
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, We black on't youir? Fuck?

00:24:50
Speaker 2: What we're doing with how you identify whatever you've seen in this black skin first? That's what you see first before people see me. They often times may be more intimidated because I'm six too, and I'm coming at you like strong, shoulder, straight back, what's up? Do you understand what I mean? I'm not trying to intimidate you. But it's also not my fault. When you find those same curves and that same mustang a little sexy, that's not my fault.

00:25:16
Speaker 4: Talk to God. You should pray about that.

00:25:20
Speaker 2: And I only got this way because of the time, bro, because of the time that I had to get to this moment. Do you understand what I'm saying? Because I thought about this the other day? Because I oftentimes have moments of just straight up gratitude randomly because I'm like, oh my god, it's still happening. Because the benefit of this is that it happened during COVID. So for y'all, y'all people at the Pink Posse, which I just named one day out of my mouth online. I was just like y'all, y'all pink posse is crazy and that joker call on and everybody's hollering about the paint posse. Now I'm here for it. But the fact that something from my mind or from my mouth cannot test and become something so tangible you can't tell me shit. You can't tell Patri you have to walk around with a certain knowledge because this came from her head. What made you think of Uncle Clifford. I just wanted to know, she said. I just wanted to know what it could be like if a person fully accepts themselves. And I just want to see what that could be like, all of their masculinity, on all of their femininity. I'm interested in that she always has her work from the beginning because I knew her first as the playwright before I even she you know, I got words she wanted me to read for the thing because she didn't know who I was. I was referred to a friend, a friend that I went to cast Tech with back in Detroit. Come on, I'm just saying it was literally because of these same people. That's why I hate when I meet people and they dismiss themselves. I don't care that if you ain't on no quote unquote network show. I don't care if you are on a network show. I meet Beyonce and I'd be like, Hey, I'm Nico.

00:26:57
Speaker 4: What's your name? Because she may want to tell me that her name.

00:26:59
Speaker 2: Is niche of that day, she may have a real other, a legal name that she would prefer people meet and go by.

00:27:08
Speaker 4: I'm meeting Janet Jackson. Hey Janet, Hello, my name is Nico. How are you? And She's like, hey, I'm here for you, she said, I like you.

00:27:16
Speaker 1: Jane is a fan of the show and a fan of yours.

00:27:18
Speaker 2: Get out of my face. I almost want to push your shoulder, but you're not here in person.

00:27:27
Speaker 3: But how does that.

00:27:27
Speaker 1: Feel, Nico, Janet, Demita, Joe Jackson, the icon for the community and in the world.

00:27:34
Speaker 3: How does that feel to know that Janet.

00:27:36
Speaker 1: Jackson is sitting at home watching you on television and then to say to you to your face that she's a fan.

00:27:44
Speaker 2: Oh, it feels good as shit. If you know like you on a deeper level. I mean I don't even think about it, to be honest. You know when you're when you're performing, and when I'm doing when I'm performing and when I'm on set. I'm thinking about y'all. I am not thinking about nobody. I forgot that my mama had never even seen Pea Valley, and I was like, oh wait, let me.

00:28:07
Speaker 4: Give you some pictures.

00:28:08
Speaker 2: Let me show you something before this come out in the world. Do you say what I mean? Because, bro, because my art means that much to me.

00:28:18
Speaker 4: It has.

00:28:19
Speaker 2: I have been through too much. I've knocked down too many doors to let it just go willy nilly and like let anybody's opinion or thought change me. If that weren't the case, if that was really my makeup, I wouldn't be here now.

00:28:38
Speaker 4: I couldn't be here.

00:28:39
Speaker 2: So many people will tell you all the time, you two that you do that. There's a difference between taking critique and taking blows. You know what I'm saying. You know you I know how to swallow a brick. What that means? You don't I take that l yup, I gotta pull up, I gotta do better, boom. But guess what you telling me? That I'm too big for this, or I gotta close my gas, or that I'm too dark for that.

00:29:03
Speaker 4: Okay, you'll see, You'll see. I had no idea.

00:29:08
Speaker 3: I had no idea, no, and you're living proof of that.

00:29:10
Speaker 1: And that's why you inspire me too, because I felt the same way growing up in this business where I'm a reality TV creator and executive, so there's so much shade when it comes to the genre TV that I produce.

00:29:22
Speaker 3: I'm an openly gay black man.

00:29:24
Speaker 1: People talk about my voice the way I talk. You know, I was a skinny kid in high school. My name is Carlos King. The football players used to call me Carlos Queen for obvious reasons. But I never allowed any of those things to take me away from achieving what I knew God.

00:29:44
Speaker 3: Put in my heart for me to attain.

00:29:47
Speaker 1: And when I look at you and I hear your story, you are such a big motivation for the world because you are proof that when you are authentically you, and you have greatfulness in the spur of the moment, because that's that's nothing but God reminding you that I'm with you. I come before you and a lot along these green pastors, and I'm gonna hold your right hand and You're gonna be victorious in this world. I just wanted you to know that you represent that to the world, and it's no mistake that two black gay boys from the d are able to live their best life because they're living with authenticity and to grow up in Detroit as we did. It tastes courage to do that, but we're living proof that when you, when you stay true to yourself, God can open up the floodgates of happiness that will blind your eyes. And when I look at you, I need shade, honey, because your future is so bright that this is only the beginning.

00:30:57
Speaker 2: I thank you, I thank you, I say thank you, I thank you. No, it's a blessing, it's an honor. I'm here for the moment. I'm grateful, Bro, I'm so grateful because I feel like we whether you talk about reality TV or whether you talk about portraying a gay character.

00:31:16
Speaker 4: I used to think about me Shaq.

00:31:18
Speaker 2: Taylor in Holly as Hollywood and Mannequin, Yes right.

00:31:23
Speaker 4: And I thought about Flip Wilson.

00:31:26
Speaker 2: I thought about the character in an iconic and classic play called The Colored Museum by George C.

00:31:33
Speaker 4: Wolfe called mss Rage.

00:31:37
Speaker 2: I thought about all of these portrayals of queer life that I saw on screen specifically, and then I thought about the ones that I've read in literature, and then I thought about.

00:31:51
Speaker 4: The ones that were in on plays.

00:31:54
Speaker 2: You know, because back in Detroit, we all know about the Chipman circuit, you know what I'm.

00:31:58
Speaker 4: Saying, And I just knew a lot of the whole.

00:32:00
Speaker 2: Shelley Garrett, the beauty shop place. And I always thought about like, even as a child, when I saw that flamboyant gay man, I didn't think that that was me. I didn't think that was me, even though people said, oh, nikoh, you're so loud, you're so this, Oh you dance, oh you sing? Oh, go ahead, table, But I in my mind, for whatever reason, it wasn't a conscious thing.

00:32:25
Speaker 4: It just was the way that I was wired. I never just saw that.

00:32:30
Speaker 2: So my training took me through a period where quote unquote, you have to learn how to play straight. Okay, Now for some people that's a huge issue. That's a huge issue, But I'm gonna tell you why it was not for me at the time. I bumped up against it. But I'm grateful for it now because I was learned, was taught. I was taught, and I learned how to portray character without constraint to say, oh, this is a black version of King Lear. No, this is king Lear, this is a gay queer version of king Lear. No, it's just king Lear. This is who this is, who this character is. So I have had the benefit of having an entire career.

00:33:20
Speaker 4: We're up until twenty seventeen.

00:33:23
Speaker 2: I ain't never played no queer character on camera, and only twice on stage. So for me, that idea or that subconscious or that weight of oh you're gay is showing or oh I didn't have any of that because I did this other work.

00:33:43
Speaker 4: It's just like people who say, oh.

00:33:44
Speaker 2: You can't direct and act, Oh you can't sing and dance, you can't do it all. You gotta just pick one. That's what people told me. That's what people told me leaving high school. You go, you know, you're on this band track, you're on this acting tract. You just got to pick one because they both require too much. I get what you're saying. Now, you're not telling me I can't do it all. I'm gonna reframe that and relinquish that I can't do it all well at the same time, so I can pick and choose which one I want to do at the time. So the time of being in this just station period and learning how to do this. Whether you're starting off in reality TV and you got dreams of going over here and being Oliver Stone, live your life, whatever your dream is. Because for some people, their dream is literally just to be on a stage.

00:34:27
Speaker 4: That's it.

00:34:28
Speaker 2: Some people their dreams put me in the background. Yo, you saw me drinking that water in that scene.

00:34:33
Speaker 4: Oh that's me. That's what they need, I aspired higher.

00:34:39
Speaker 1: Tell us what we can expect from the season finale of Pea Valley.

00:34:43
Speaker 2: Well, you see how murdered merk Pico two episodes ago. If I told you what's about to happen, I would have to do that shit to you.

00:34:54
Speaker 3: Well, don't about that, child.

00:34:55
Speaker 4: We don't want that. We don't want that. No, no, no, we definitely gonna want that.

00:35:00
Speaker 2: I think that this this season, I'm it's been a complete ride. I call it the Olympics, the emotional Olympics. It's been a whole world wind. Let me ask you real quick. Christ Hell, when you go back to the beginning of this season, did you imagine this would be the ride?

00:35:15
Speaker 3: No, not at all.

00:35:17
Speaker 1: It's it's it's I can't even find words to describe this season and the magnificent like worlds that were tapping into the episodes where we got to learn backster about you and the individual you know characters and your grandma and your mother no yeah, yeah yeah, and you being a top like none of that your character child.

00:35:40
Speaker 2: See this is listen, you playing in real life. Don't play yourself anyway Again Again, it's about the expectations that people have or the boxes.

00:36:00
Speaker 4: You understand what I'm saying.

00:36:02
Speaker 2: That in and of itself, to me, is about the conversation of where the characters are in their relationship. Are they willing, how willing are they to be open with one another? You understand what I'm saying. Whether the relationship is between two women, two men, a man and a woman, it doesn't matter of them in a vey, it does not matter. It's about expressing. Letting these characters express how they feel for one another, and you the audience, getting to sit with that. I feel like that the writers have done Katori has led the writers on an amazing, amazing journey this show. I think what really rapples people is that it's such a sophisticated niche. The show has just a style and panache to it, and I don't think that you are oftentimes accustomed to seeing us taken so literally and then also seeing way there's craftsmanship that's in this.

00:37:00
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

00:37:01
Speaker 2: There are other shows out there that absolutely have it, but we as an audience have to respect that.

00:37:06
Speaker 4: We go to Twitter, we go to social media, but the people who watch Succession I am in dB, they go to Rotten Tomatoes. So there's a level.

00:37:16
Speaker 2: Of oh, how do we then cross over and make our opinions and our voices known on those other platforms as well. That also helps to increase and gets more shows like this produced. And the phrase that always catches me, sometimes fairy tales are simply horror stories with happy ending. That is a line that we say in the show. Sometimes fairy tales are horror stories just with happy endings. So this episode coming up, we will see if it is a fairy tale or a horror story.

00:37:49
Speaker 4: For you.

00:37:53
Speaker 3: I can talk to Nika all day.

00:37:55
Speaker 1: I feel like t and I were friends for years.

00:38:00
Speaker 3: Who would have thought that an actor.

00:38:03
Speaker 1: Of his stature Honey would join Carlos King to give my listeners on Reality with the King not only juicy things about the season finale of Pea Valley, but also some very insightful, informative dialogue just about life in general. Did y'all love that quote as much as I did when he said, sometimes fairy tales are horror stories with happy endings. Now, I know y'all love a good Old Housewives tagline, child, but that one is going to be the official Reality with the King tagline. We must invite Nico back when season three premieres in a couple of months, because I just can't wait to continue not only the conversation that we have with Nico, but also.

00:38:53
Speaker 3: Our friendship Raindrops.

00:38:55
Speaker 1: Make sure you tune in and watch the season two finale of Pea Valley tonight on Stars at ten pm. Thoughts opinions read to about my conversation with Nico. Email me at Reality with the King at stitcher dot com or leamail voicemail at three one oh five nine three eight one eight eight.

00:39:25
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to Reality with the King.

00:39:28
Speaker 1: New episodes drop every Wednesday and Friday, Share, comment, follow and subscribe to Reality with the King. Wherever you get your podcast, visit Realitywitheking dot com and be sure to follow me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram and Twitter. Reality with the King is a production of More.

00:39:50
Speaker 3: Sauce by Stitcher.

00:39:51
Speaker 1: It is executive produced by me Carlos King and Jasmine Henley Brown. We are also produced by Sierra Spragley, Rix eng Rank and music by Marcus Ham More Sauce MHM