Emilia Migliaccio on Nearly Winning the ANWA—and Then Deciding Not to Turn Pro

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

00:00:02
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:00:05
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a brid egg Friday Egg, the.

00:00:07
Speaker 3: Dreaded Frida Egg, Friday Frida Egg Egg, Frida Egg, Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump.

00:00:35
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Friday Egg Podcast. My name is Garrett Morrison, and I'm not sure if you've heard, but the Masters is coming up next week. First, though, we have the Augusta National Women's Amateur. Seventy two of the best women amateur golfers in the world are in Augusta, Georgia this week for the third edition of the ANWHA. They'll play two rounds at Champions Retreat Golf Club on Wednesday and Thursday, and the final at Augusta National on Saturday. In the field this year is my guest, Emilia Miliacho. Emilia is the twelfth ranked amateur in the world and she's put together four outstanding seasons on the golf team at wake Forest University. Amelia came to my attention at last year's ANWHA when she shot a final round seventy to tie the lead at the end of regulation. Ultimately, she lost on the first playoff hole to Japan's Subasa Kajitani. By the end of this week, Emilia will have played in all three editions of the Anhwa. So I figured she could speak to the experience better than anyone, but I was equally eager to hear about her interests outside of golf. Emilia is a passionate and accomplished writer. She wrote a novel called Just an Illusion before she even arrived at college, and when she's not doing coursework or keeping her golf game sharp, she works on the editorial staff at Golf Channel. Her prospects as a writer and reporter are so bright, in fact, that she has chosen not to turn pro in golf. Obviously, Amelia and I had a lot to talk about, so let's get to it. So, Amelia, we are talking on Friday, March twenty fifth, the week before the AUGUSTA National Women's Amateur. What does your schedule look like over the next few days.

00:02:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, my schedule is pretty packed, as it usually is, but most people's schedules are, you know, have a lot, have a lot in them. But I'm just super excited it's been January was the last tournament I played in, so I've been like counting down the days before i can play another event again. And this is, you know, such a such a prestigious event. So I'm so like honored that I get to play. But yeah, I have a lot of prep work for class, you know, needing to plan ahead, telling my professors. I kind of like wait until the last minute, till my professors I'm not going I won't be able to make it's a class next week because I feel so bad because like I love school and I love their classes, and I don't want them to think that I'm, you know, just missing school. But they're like so supportive. The communication department at Wake. They tweet out, you know, when athletes in the department do well and stuff like that, so they're super excited.

00:03:14
Speaker 3: But I always get a little nervous.

00:03:17
Speaker 1: So you're well trained by college golf too, let the professors know, you know, not not super far ahead of time.

00:03:25
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm I'm very well trained from college golf. But yeah, so I'm pretty much managing that. And then I'm out the golf course every day, whether it's at the practice facilities or playing and I just got engaged, so a little bit of celebrations there too.

00:03:43
Speaker 1: Congratulations, that's awesome, Thank you. Now, just to clarify where you are in your academic slash athletic career. You are in the first year of graduate school and you have one more year of eligibility, which you're planning to use next year. So this is a kind of gap year. But you're going to school, you're still still working hard, and I assume you're you're practicing at the Wake facilities and all that.

00:04:08
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

00:04:09
Speaker 2: So played four years undergrad decided I didn't want to turn professional and needed some time to sort of figure out exactly where I wanted to be and what I wanted to do. So I applied for the Master's program at Wake. I'm actually a TA at Wake, so it's on an academic scholarship. And I decided that I wanted to.

00:04:30
Speaker 3: Wait before.

00:04:33
Speaker 2: Using my COVID year, my extra year of eligibility, because I just wanted time to be able to, you know, I had some opportunities with Golf Channel, and I never you know, been have you know, experienced like a teaching role in university. So I really wanted to just like experience other things and kind of be a non athletic regular person slash NARP as it's called. And I mean, I love like my athlete identity is super strong, Like I love training, I love practicing, I love competing. But this break was really good for me. But yeah, I mean, I'm up at the facility every day practicing. I'm still on the squad, so I'm allowed.

00:05:13
Speaker 3: To use facilities.

00:05:14
Speaker 2: It's all like good with compliance, so don't need to worry about that. But yeah, that's sort of my situation and I've been a nice, good system for it.

00:05:24
Speaker 1: NARP Is that a thing?

00:05:26
Speaker 3: It is a thing.

00:05:27
Speaker 2: I don't I don't say it as much because a little prejudice to say if I'm referring to myself as a NARP, it's okay.

00:05:36
Speaker 1: Is it? Is that a term that athletes use, that college athletes USEARP?

00:05:41
Speaker 3: Yes, they do.

00:05:43
Speaker 1: At least that's kind of like kind of like muggles in Harry Potter.

00:05:46
Speaker 3: Yes, oh my gosh.

00:05:46
Speaker 2: And I'm reading the Harry Potter rereading the Harry Potter series right now, so I'm very like in accordance to that.

00:05:53
Speaker 1: So it's slightly derogatory but mostly affectionate. Yes, name for normal people. I haven't heard that before. That's great, all right. So you've played in the Augusta National Women's Amateur twice already, so in twenty nineteen and then in twenty twenty one when you placed second, so you're as familiar as anyone with the routine of the week, I guess. So could you just sketch out what that is for me? You know, Monday through Saturday. What do you do each day at this tournament?

00:06:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, so, I think in twenty nineteen everyone was just super giddy on what the experience would be like. The activities are different each year, so the activities we did in twenty nineteen were different from twenty twenty one. But players usually arrive to the Crown Plaza at Augusta, Georgia, which is the hotel we all stay in, either Sunday evening or Monday morning. So the practice facilities at Champions Retreat open at eleven thirty or the first shuttle so you never have to drive to The shuttles take you everywhere, so you feel like a movie star first of all, and it's great. You get your makeup done too before headshots, which is super cool and professional, and I don't really do makeup besides like mascara, so it was made me feel really excited.

00:07:17
Speaker 3: And I felt, you know, my features are all enhanced. It was very nice.

00:07:22
Speaker 2: But yeah, so players arrive Sunday or Monday and then practice around Tuesday. There's a Champions dinner, which I believe is Tuesday evening, and that's where some of the members of Augusta National, including Chairman Fred Ridley, attend sort of the Champions Dinner, and there's a few players that get to sit with the members.

00:07:45
Speaker 3: So last year I.

00:07:47
Speaker 2: Actually got to sit with Chairman Ridley at our table and so that was super nice. He was talking about how he won, like I don't know, it was some like member guest tournament, was some tournament that him and his partner wants.

00:07:59
Speaker 3: He was superha happy about it.

00:08:02
Speaker 2: But yeah, and then first round Wednesday, Champions Retreat is a very difficult golf course is very demanding, the greens are firm, it's pretty long, and then top thirty makes the cut and gets to play the final round of animal everyone gets to play the Pride round, so everyone gets to play Augusta National, which is really exciting. But yeah, they definitely make the course challenging and demanding.

00:08:27
Speaker 1: And Champions Retreat you're talking about specifically Champions Retreat or and Augusta National and Augusta National.

00:08:35
Speaker 2: Yes, Like I felt like playing the practice round in twenty nineteen because I missed the cut in twenty nineteen was very helpful when I played again the practice round in twenty twenty one and then competing in the tournament. So yeah, experience, and that's what they say about the Masters, like, experience is essential. That's why you see all these veterans, like kind of older professional PGA players that play really well the mass because they played it so many times.

00:09:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, they know the course. So Champions Retreat. Nobody talks about Champions Retreat. And yet it is two thirds of the ANWA, right, two thirds of the rounds are played there. You said it was difficult, the greens are firm. What more can you tell me about that course? What is what should people be looking out for when they see some of the action at that course.

00:09:21
Speaker 2: I think you'll see a lot of pars. You can definitely get a good round going. I know ingrid Lynn Blad, I think in twenty twenty one on the second nine, she was like five under, so You can certainly like get some birdies going if you're making making putts, like making fifteen to twenty footers, but I think mid to long irons are essential. So if you're able to dial in your irons and dial in your yardages. So, Okay, it's one hundred and fifty yards back flag, but it's down wind and I need to hit to the center of the green, so then it rolls to the flag and doesn't go over, so I actually need to play a one thirty five shot. So I think management is really important. There's also a couple holes that I know. Number four is a really difficult hole where you have it's a very narrow green, like there's not a lot of depth to the green, but you're hitting like a five iron or hybrid, so you almost kind of expect just going over the green and having to make a heart up and down. So there's just stuff like that that makes it pretty difficult. You need to have good short game capitalize on the wedges. So there's probably like maybe three or four holes where you do have wedge shots, so you need to give yourself a birdie opportunity. And then kind of I was talking with my teammate Rachel Keen and I who both played the North and South Amateur, which is on Piner's number two. So we kind of compare Piner's number two to Champions Retreat, like pars are really good and you just kind of want to give yourself opportunities for birdie, but definitely like hitting good irons, good course management, you excel.

00:10:54
Speaker 3: On that course.

00:10:55
Speaker 1: Okay, So in your first and why in twenty nineteen, you were plus seven after two rounds at Champions Retreat, which was definitely not the back of the pack. But you didn't make the cut for the round at Augusta National on Saturday. But as you mentioned before, you still play the practice round even if you missed the cut, which is a nice thing. That would be pretty brutal. Actually people missed the cut at Champions Retreat and then went home. But you still get that experience of going to Augusta National. So tell me about that. What's it like to go there and play that practice round for you in twenty nineteen.

00:11:34
Speaker 3: It was incredible.

00:11:35
Speaker 2: My first memory of Augusta National, or like the Masters, is when Bubba hit his shot from the woods.

00:11:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, the pitching wedge that he hit on ten. Yes, that he hooked like fifty yards, which is impossible, impossible.

00:11:49
Speaker 3: Well, I remember as a kid because as a kid.

00:11:52
Speaker 2: I didn't really have like that hope, that like fan hope that even if it's all detrimental, you're.

00:11:57
Speaker 3: Like, somehow they can do it. Because I was.

00:11:59
Speaker 2: I remember, I don't even know who was playing against, but I was like, yeah, Bubba, he's a lefty with a pink driver shaft.

00:12:04
Speaker 3: I'm rooting for him. And I remember when he was in the in the woods and I was like, crap, he lost, and then I just was odd in this shoddy hit.

00:12:11
Speaker 2: Anyways, So that's kind of like my first memory of Augusta National, which is like pretty cool, especially because I got to meet Bubba. He shook my hand at the twenty twenty one and while after I finished, so that was really special for me. But getting there for the first time it was just incredible. Like I'd never been to the Masters before as a spectator, so being able to play the golf course knowing that it's the most like exclusive golf course in the world, it was incredible. Like it's so green, it's so green, like everything is just perfectly manicured. There's a lot of undulation, which everyone says whole eighteen the t shot is just as narrow as it looks on TV.

00:12:58
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was.

00:12:59
Speaker 2: It was really special and it was a really good learning moment for me because obviously I wanted so bad to play the competitive round, but taking my individual performance aside and recognizing how special the opportunity is to play Gusta Nashal, then that was a really important thing for me to learn at that age.

00:13:21
Speaker 1: So how was the course different from what you expected? I mean, as you say, everybody talks about the undulation, right, you can't see how big the elevation changes are on TV. But what was something that struck you that first time as like, oh, this is kind of surprising. I didn't realize that this was that way.

00:13:39
Speaker 2: I think there was two things that were surprising to me. One, if you don't hit your iron shot in the right spot.

00:13:48
Speaker 3: So in twenty twenty one, I hit my irons really well.

00:13:50
Speaker 2: And if you hit your irons well, everything just funnels to the flag, so you can play really well.

00:13:56
Speaker 3: But if you don't hit.

00:13:58
Speaker 2: Your irons in the right spot, it's a like if you short side yourself, it's almost impossible up and down I remember my first time I played, and I like, you know, it was kind of spraying it a little bit, and I was like, well, I think I was like, I think I went four over on the front and like three or four under on the back, Like I sort.

00:14:20
Speaker 3: Of figured something out and then whatever. But it was just a.

00:14:23
Speaker 2: Testament to how difficult it is when you're in the wrong spots. And then also when the caddie tells you you need to aim way up here on the green, you probably should listen to them, because I remember they would say that and I'm like, mmm, okay, and then I would do it just because you know, it's a practice round and low and behold, it's you know, doing a ninety degree turn.

00:14:48
Speaker 3: And going towards the flag.

00:14:50
Speaker 2: So I think just how severe some of the breaks are if you're in some tricky locations, as well as how severe the chips are when you're in really hard spots.

00:15:00
Speaker 3: That's why the course is so demanding.

00:15:03
Speaker 1: Did you have a club caddy the first time you played it in twenty nineteen during that practice round.

00:15:08
Speaker 3: I had a.

00:15:08
Speaker 2: Club caddy for twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one in the practice round.

00:15:12
Speaker 1: In the practice round because your mom was there for you, of course, as was well covered, was there with you very charmingly during the round itself, yes, which.

00:15:22
Speaker 3: Was really special for me.

00:15:24
Speaker 2: But the club caddy was so critical during the Pride dround because he was like, I know where all the flags are, so this is where you hit it too, and so I didn't put It was funny the other people in my.

00:15:35
Speaker 3: Group would put to other parts in the green and I'm like.

00:15:38
Speaker 2: He knows, we're all the flags are tomorrow, like putting somewhere else.

00:15:41
Speaker 3: So I felt really prepared.

00:15:43
Speaker 2: That I was literally just playing the round for the next day, so and he was giving me a ton of advice.

00:15:50
Speaker 3: On what to do. So yeah, it was very very helpful in the practice ground.

00:15:54
Speaker 1: That's cool. So what you're saying about the if your irons are on, you can kind of funnel to hens. If your irons are off, then you can't. You know, I guess what what you're identifying there is how the greens have these sections to them. Sometimes they're bulls. But if you're not in the bowl then you're gonna have a hard time getting back there on your next shot. Is that kind of the vibe that you that you picked up with the greens.

00:16:20
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

00:16:21
Speaker 2: If you're not, if you're not in the bowl, it's really hard because then you're putting over the bull and I'm turned around and it's really difficult. But what's great about it is you also see people who can shoot a five under if you know you have, you have the day going for you. It's it's rare, but it's doable, which makes Augusta National even more appealing because it's not like you're getting there like great, like hope I don't shoot eighty five today. You're like, Okay, this is really hard. But if I play well, I can score well. Yeah.

00:16:54
Speaker 1: That's where the dynamism of the tournament comes from. Is if you're if you're really on, then you can go look. Oh, but if you're really off, then you know you can shoot in the eighties for sure. Yeah. Right, And you were on in twenty twenty one, and maybe we should fast forward to there. You make the cut seventy three, seventy four. At Champions Retreat. You were in the seventh to last group on Saturday. It was pretty bunched up. It's not that you were super far back, it's just that a lot of people a lot of players shot kind of around that number. I guess between about one under and you know, three or four over. So what was your frame of mind going into the round.

00:17:33
Speaker 3: I had a really good frame of mind that day. Actually. I was really focused on just what I needed to do to get it in.

00:17:40
Speaker 2: The fair away and then get it on the green. So I wasn't hitting my driver like super far, but I had figured out a system on hitting it straight, so they were kind of.

00:17:49
Speaker 3: Hitting these low, little like.

00:17:53
Speaker 2: Kind of low bullets like down the fairway, which worked well. But I was just so overwhelmed with how cool like the tournament, like playing the competitive round there was and seeing my mom in sort of her white, that famous white jumpsuit, like everything felt so surreal for me that I didn't feel as much pressure as I thought I would, like as much nerves, which makes me really happy because in that moment I should be more grateful than like nervous about a golf score. It did help that I hit it in the fairway on one really good when you hit the fairway and then you can hit the green.

00:18:34
Speaker 1: And on the first time, yeah, I did make Bertie.

00:18:38
Speaker 2: It was great and it was funny because I had like a seven footer for Bertie, and I was really nervous and I thought I hit it short, like I did not hit this thing hard, and it rolls like with true speed in the hole.

00:18:50
Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, these greens are fast today.

00:18:55
Speaker 2: But yeah, so I think everything was just super surreal for me, and and that's why, like maybe I wasn't as nervous, but I definitely felt a lot of pressure and a lot of adrenaline. And this year there's going to be even more people, which is just so cool, especially because you know, I'm not turning professionals, so these are one of the last experiences where I can play in front of a crowd.

00:19:16
Speaker 3: And that's one of my favorite things to do.

00:19:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, so that front nine in twenty twenty one, you made birdies on one, three, and eight. You just mentioned the putt that you you kind of didn't expect to get there on one. Do any of those other birdies kind of stand out in your memory?

00:19:35
Speaker 2: Uh? Number three definitely stands out because I laid up in the bunker and I was like, great, really good start, and then I hit out of the bunker and I thought I kind.

00:19:45
Speaker 3: Of scald it. So I was like oh, shoot, it's probably over the green or have to chip. I was like, it's okay, and then I saw it was just on the fringe.

00:19:51
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, okay, fine, and it was maybe twenty five feet or something, and I don't really make many puts off the fringe, and it it sort of uphill left to right and kind of rolls in and everyone starts cheering. And so that was like a big moment for me because my coach came well and she told me, she said, I mean, you made the cut. Like it's a free for all if you start making birdies, try and chase that leaderboard.

00:20:14
Speaker 3: So that was kind of the moment where I made.

00:20:16
Speaker 2: That putt and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna like just keep trying to make birdies because something.

00:20:22
Speaker 3: Cool could happen here.

00:20:24
Speaker 1: When you make a birdie like that, it's like, yeah, this could be one of those days.

00:20:27
Speaker 3: Exactly.

00:20:29
Speaker 1: Are there any holes, you know, moving on to the back nine, Are there any holes that you're thinking about ahead of time before you get there, or even any specific shots that you're like, this is gonna be a little tough, this is going to be a little challenging. Is that in your mind when you're like playing seven, eight, nine, thinking about the back nine, any specific moments there.

00:20:52
Speaker 3: I think ten and twelve are really key holes.

00:20:56
Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty one, I didn't hit a good so I had like a really long club and had a five iron and ten, yeah into ten. And it was funny because I worked at the Southwestern Ameter as an encore reporter for Golf Channel, and Billy ray Brown's like.

00:21:13
Speaker 3: Amelia, how did you bury that hole?

00:21:15
Speaker 2: I've never buried that hole in my life, And I was like, well, I literally hit the side of the bunker like the only place I could probably landed with a five.

00:21:22
Speaker 3: Iron, and it rolled all there. But so I think that's a critical hole.

00:21:27
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to make sure I hit it as far as I can, so I have like a shorter club. And then I think, also eleven or twelve is a really key hole. And I feel like I played that hole really well in twenty twenty one. If I remember correctly, it's like one hundred and forty three yards and instead of.

00:21:46
Speaker 3: Going or one hundred and forty five yards, instead of.

00:21:49
Speaker 2: Going at the flag and hitting like a soft eight, because an eight it's like my one fifty club. I decided to go left of that bunker in the front and hit a nine iron in that bigger pocket.

00:22:00
Speaker 3: Because I was like, if I hit it, the green is so just small depth wise.

00:22:05
Speaker 2: If I hit my eight iron too solid, I'm gonna just be dead. So I knew that. I feel like that that's like the widest section of the green. So that's like one hole where I feel like I played really well and I'm going to try to do the same thing this year.

00:22:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they use the Masters Sunday pin position.

00:22:25
Speaker 2: On twelve in twenty twenty one is actually right, but it was in between the bunkers in the middle.

00:22:30
Speaker 1: Oh really, Okay, Yeah, so there's not which is still a pretty treacherous pin.

00:22:34
Speaker 3: Like I would definitely say that's easier than that right one. I'm glad I don't left to deal with that.

00:22:40
Speaker 2: Maybe we will this year. Who knows, they might change the whole locations. But yeah, so it was right in between those bunkers. That's kind of why I had that pocket on the left I see.

00:22:51
Speaker 3: As my spot.

00:22:52
Speaker 1: All right, so you shoot seventy after the round, what do you remember? You know? What was there a moment of realization like I might have done enough to actually win or go to a playoff. What happened after the round in your mind and just in your interactions with people.

00:23:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was my mistake because I did not think I had any chance of getting into a.

00:23:16
Speaker 1: Playoff, or you thought you thought that people behind you would would probably catch you. In other words, I thought.

00:23:23
Speaker 2: I looked out on seventeen for Bertie. I thought I had to get to even parr to have a chance for a playoff. And yeah, so I was just I remember being very happy, very satisfied, like very proud to say.

00:23:35
Speaker 3: That I shot two under at Augusta National.

00:23:38
Speaker 2: Just happy that my fiance was there, my coaches were there, my family, my mom, and I remember being interviewed and they're like, how does it feel of being the clubhouse leader? And I was like really, like I'm like five back, but okay, like yeah, I guess it feels good. Never thought about being the clubhouse leader today. And then after the interview, some of the tournament officials pull me aside and are like, you're like one back from the lead right now, and I'm.

00:24:05
Speaker 3: Just like what, oh what? So it was sort of it was a really good learning moment.

00:24:11
Speaker 2: Because it was really hard to like get back into a competitive mind after I was just so satisfied with a round, Like I don't think I've ever been more satisfied with a round where I wasn't in contention ever, Like usually you're only satisfied if you like think you're in contention. But I was just like very happy and content And yeah, so I kind of waited for like an hour, almost an hour and a half, and I'd.

00:24:38
Speaker 3: Actually played with Subasa in stroke play from uh yeah, who I played in the.

00:24:45
Speaker 2: Playoff against, So it was kind of interesting that we played together in the playoff and then you know we're there for stroke play.

00:24:53
Speaker 3: But yeah, so I mean I did my best, did what I could.

00:24:56
Speaker 2: It happens, I'm you know, proud of myself for putting myself in a playoff position, and this year I'm going to be ready regardless of what happens at the end of Saturday's round.

00:25:09
Speaker 1: So am I right that you're saying you maybe kind of let your mental guard down a little bit afterwards, like you sort of relaxed and got out of competitive mode because you assumed that that it wasn't going to go onto a playoff for you yeah.

00:25:21
Speaker 3: I was so relaxed.

00:25:23
Speaker 2: All the competitive juice is just kind of whoop, good job Amelia.

00:25:29
Speaker 3: No, no, not to do that.

00:25:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you go on to that playoff, you end up losing the playoff to to Subasa Kajitani, And what is your mixture of feelings afterwards, because you're you're in this interesting position of you thought you were out of it, You didn't, you didn't think that you were going to have a chance at winning when you finished your round, but then all of a sudden, you do, and then a few minutes later your second place. And so I wonder how much disappoint creeps into that, or if it's just like that was a little extra thing that I got there, that's nice.

00:26:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was definitely a lot of different emotions at the same time. So I feel like everything happened so fast, Like the playoff just happened so fast, it almost feels like a blur. I remember thinking because I had hit a grip down five iron, and I remember like, I wonder if I hit a full six, because I had so much adrenaline, if that would have been better.

00:26:27
Speaker 3: So I remember thinking that.

00:26:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember just like knowing a lot of people were cheering for me, and man like, dang, like I could have I could have done something really cool.

00:26:38
Speaker 3: But yeah, I just remember it just it just all happened so fast.

00:26:42
Speaker 2: But I wasn't like I wasn't like distraught or like super disappointed or anything. You know.

00:26:50
Speaker 3: It was this extra opportunity. Like my goal was just to make the cut.

00:26:53
Speaker 2: I really wanted to be a part of the history of women that made the cut at Augusta National. And so that was my That was my first goal going into tournament. Like I never wanted anything so badly. That wasn't winning, you know, because that was more important to me than winning.

00:27:07
Speaker 3: I just wanted to play that round.

00:27:10
Speaker 2: Then I started playing well and I was like, Okay, maybe I can like be in contention. And then I thought I was, you know, too short of you know, potentially being in contention.

00:27:21
Speaker 3: And then I was in contention.

00:27:22
Speaker 2: So it was a great opportunity because I had the ability to raise my expectations and I didn't meet the full expectation, but I got kept getting higher and higher.

00:27:33
Speaker 1: So yeah, well you proved to yourself that you could have right you were that that was a possibility. And now a quick word from the sponsor of this episode, Elijah Craig. Every player has their own unique style of play. That's part of what we love about golf. It also happens to be what we love about bourbon. Like Elijah Craig, Every bottle of Elijah Craig's award winning small batch WI carries a signature warm spice and subtle smoky flavor. I like to drink it on the rocks.

00:28:06
Speaker 2: It's just a.

00:28:07
Speaker 1: Delightful drink at any time. It's suitable for a warm day after a round of golf, or for a cool night just before bed. Elijah Craig won double gold at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition last year, which just goes to show that hard work and dedication lead to great things. So whether you're watching the AWA at home or playing a few holes with your buddies, make Elijah Craig your go to Go to Elijah Craig dot com slash fried Egg. That's Elijah cragg dot com slash fried Egg and discover the greatness within award winning bourbon. The Fried Egg Podcast is brought to you by Elijah Craig, Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, Bardstown, Kentucky, forty seven percent alcohol by volume. Elijah Craig reminds you to think wisely, drink wisely. All right, So talking about some non golf stuff here. You have been writing and reporting for Golf Channel for the past several months. What have been some of your favorite experiences in that job so far.

00:29:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, my first ever job with Golf Channel, I went to write for the US Open at Olympic.

00:29:16
Speaker 1: Club at Olympic Club, Yeah for sure. Yeah, And so that was.

00:29:19
Speaker 2: Just really cool that that was my first job. And what's just been amazing about Golf Channel is everyone I run into, They're super nice, super energetic and happy to help with anything, like, just very inclusive. So many people have introduced me to other writers, other reporters, other employees.

00:29:40
Speaker 3: And I really appreciate that.

00:29:42
Speaker 2: I know that's not something that happens in every community, so it's something that I just felt really welcomed. From day one, I learned that interviewing people is a lot harder.

00:29:54
Speaker 3: Than answering the questions. I learned that pretty quickly, like how to ask a good question.

00:30:00
Speaker 2: With writing, which then helped me during interviews when I report, because report, like doing interviews is some of my favorite things now, Like I love interviewing people, and I feel like interviewing being at press conferences on the writing side really.

00:30:16
Speaker 3: Prepared me for that.

00:30:17
Speaker 1: What have you learned about interviewing? What was What were some of the things that you didn't know at first that you had to get familiar with.

00:30:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just being very clear with the question.

00:30:29
Speaker 2: And it's better to say too little clearly than kind of say a lot, making sure you're asking a question and not saying a statement like I didn't do this, but you played really well today, tell us about it, like that's not really. I also felt like as a player, I could ask the deeper question. So people will ask a lot, what's your mindset going into tomorrow? Well, I know Nelly Corda's mindset going into tomorrow at KPMG. It's to take one shot at a time, because that's what she says, But asking her, like, what does one shot in a time look like? And what are the challenges of being in contention and trying to stay in the mindset of one shot at a time? Like that is what everyone wants to know, or that's what I want to know, So that's what I'm going to ask.

00:31:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, with with super high level golfers like Nellie Korda, their mindset is usually pretty simple. They don't get as complex about it as I do. I'm I'm, I have all sorts of convolutions in my mind when I'm playing golf, But Nelly Korda, she doesn't. She's really simple with it, and so that can make great golfers a little bit tough to interview, right, definitely. And so how and how do you get to the interesting stuff? I guess is the is the big question?

00:31:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's just trying to ask questions. What I like to do is try to ask questions in a slightly different way than they have usually received the question. So I've done, you know, some feature interviews and instead of asking how did you get into golf? Or I may ask that question just to get some background. But then I'll ask what does golf mean to you? Because that's a question that's not doesn't come with a rehearsed answer because people don't ask that a lot, so it requires a little bit of thought. And I had the opportunity to interview Lorena Ochowa a couple of weeks ago, and she's someone who has been interviewed a lot, so she has a lot of you know, just pre rehearse answers in just the advice that she wants to give to young players and all this stuff, and then just some of that information can just be a little vague, So it's just to really see making sure you're listening and then picking apart those kind of ambiguous terms like one shot at a time or mindset and then going into that and just like asking a little bit more So.

00:33:00
Speaker 1: One of your articles for Golf Channel was about Rachel Heck, who's a superstar golfer at Stanford and she has an interest in art, which I didn't know about, and you wrote about this. Yeah, and it seems like the NCAA's new rules around name, image and likeness kind of gave her the freedom to promote herself. And I found that really interesting. And I wonder if the new NIL policies have had any effect on you and how you're approaching these, you know, this last year of eligibility that you have and all that.

00:33:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely NIL has definitely impacted me in a great way if you're smart about it. And I've obviously like played well at wake Forest so developed a little bit of like a good reputation. In that way, you can definitely like use nil to your advantage. And it's really nice because I think I'm someone I'm like a very optimistic person. I'm very happy, so and I love like wake Forest and I feel they've treated me well. So sometimes I don't think about, oh, yeah, like I do deserve more as an athlete, like I'm doing all this work and yeah. So I actually met the CEO of Bridgetone Golf at a Clemson wake game, Dan Murphy, and he was like, yeah, I'm a wake alum. Because it was like we were at Clemson and it was like me, my fiance, my teammate and her brother, and then Dan Murphy and his group of three or four.

00:34:32
Speaker 3: So we were like a group of.

00:34:34
Speaker 2: Seven amongst eighty thousand orange and purple people, and so we bonded naturally.

00:34:43
Speaker 3: And yeah, we got to talking.

00:34:44
Speaker 2: So I have an NIL deal with Bridgestone and then also with Stitch Golf. So the CEO of Stitch, Brad King, he grew up or he plays golf at McGregor Downs, and I've grown up there my whole life. So I've known him since I was maybe eight or ten years old. So what's cool about NIL is that you can establish professional relationships with people that you've known for a long time and you have a special relationship with So it's really important that you're working with a company that you trust and you have like a story behind and those two companies I do. So it was really cool to be able to do that, and yeah, it's been really beneficial for me.

00:35:29
Speaker 1: One other balancing act that you pulled off in the past year was playing at the US Women's Amateur while simultaneously reporting on it.

00:35:39
Speaker 3: I love how you use the word pulled off. It's a great word.

00:35:44
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine it. I mean, this is you must be out of your mind. But you did it and you played quite well. How did you do that?

00:35:55
Speaker 3: Yeah?

00:35:55
Speaker 2: So I talked with Brent Packer and the producer of the Women's Ameter, and we were kind of talking because I did the Girls Junior and I was asked to do the Women's Ameter and I said, well, I'm going to play it, and he said, okay, what if we do this, like we hope we don't use you because we want you to go to the finals, but if you lose a match or whatever, like if you want to put on a headset, great, And so I won my match in the round of sixty four. I think I'm like the twenty second hole or something, and then I was like, okay, like let me go report on some of the golf now. And I think what motivated me to do it was because this is what I want to do, and so in order to get better at encourse reporting and you know, succeed like in this industry, like I just I need exposure.

00:36:52
Speaker 3: I need to be practicing.

00:36:54
Speaker 2: And it was such a good week for me because I got to do play back shots for the first time, which is where you're reporting on a shot that's already happened. So the producer in your mic is like, Okay, we're going we're going to this shot now it's on tape, and he'll say over it, over it, like so knows like where the shot is at. So you're not like, oh, it looks great, and like she is just she's not hit yet.

00:37:21
Speaker 3: So that's like something that's kind of hard to do.

00:37:22
Speaker 2: So I got exposure with that, I got exposure to interviews and yeah, like it was kind of just like super fun. It was the best of both Worlds where it didn't obviously, like I wanted to keep playing.

00:37:33
Speaker 3: I lost in the round of thirty two. But it worked out great because I could.

00:37:36
Speaker 2: I stayed there all week regardless, and then I learned and got to play the Curtis Cup, so it was great cap off.

00:37:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so you got some some great experience in an area that you want to pursue professionally, which is which is not golf at this point, it's reporting and writing. You've had a long time passion for writing. You published a novel in twenty eighteen called Just an Illusion when you were just eighteen or nineteen years old, I believe when when this was published, So you must have started writing it when you were in high school.

00:38:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:38:07
Speaker 2: I started in a creative writing class at sixteen.

00:38:10
Speaker 1: So was that creative writing class kind of the source of your inspiration to start writing or does it go back farther than that.

00:38:19
Speaker 2: I have like a bunch of little papers and stuff that I wrote when I was a kid, So I've always loved writing. We used to have these standardized like writing prompts in elementary school, and they were like my favorite, like did not like the blue diamond like math test, I was like pretty good at math, but I just like didn't really like it, but loved these writing prompts.

00:38:39
Speaker 3: I've always loved writing, I loved reading.

00:38:42
Speaker 2: I kind of took a break from reading for like a good chunk of my high school and beginning of college, but in like so sucked in like now, yeah, but the creative writing classes were sort of we had an assignment and.

00:38:58
Speaker 3: Then I kind of just turned these high and then into a.

00:39:01
Speaker 2: Much longer story and published it.

00:39:04
Speaker 1: Is there a particular book or set of books that have been key in your revival of interest in reading and writing in college?

00:39:15
Speaker 3: Not a particular set of books, but Audible.

00:39:18
Speaker 1: The app so you listen to You listen to audiobooks a lot.

00:39:23
Speaker 3: I listened to audiobooks a lot.

00:39:25
Speaker 2: And anyone who tells you that, oh, well, I like to just read the book, they don't.

00:39:30
Speaker 3: Ready.

00:39:31
Speaker 2: If people who say audible doesn't count as reading, they don't read in general. So just throwing that out there if anyone's going to call me out that Audible is not reading, because I can retain all that information. I can like tell you what happened in these books. So I am a very like audio learner when it comes to Yeah, like for books, but that was sort of what I did. Like, I'm not a big music person, Like I'm not I'm not those people that can find like hole in the Wall great music, So Audible was such a great way for me to just read all these different books from all these different genres, and I can read them really quickly because between classes and car rides, I'm like always have them in.

00:40:15
Speaker 1: So do you find that writing and golf are in any way complimentary to each other or are they very separate in your mind, almost like an escape from each other. What's the relationship between those two for you.

00:40:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if I see them in conjunction with one another, but they definitely are in the sense that I write a lot about golf and I report on golf, and I would say reporting a sort of a different way of storytelling.

00:40:42
Speaker 3: So they definitely go.

00:40:44
Speaker 2: Hand in hand, and there's a lot of instances where they overlap.

00:40:47
Speaker 3: In my life. But when I definitely I think of.

00:40:49
Speaker 2: Reading, I think of writing as more in relation to golf and like what I'm doing, but with reading, I see it more as just an outlet, just something I really enjoy. I think reading just makes you more creative, makes you have a bigger imagination.

00:41:07
Speaker 3: It also improves your memory.

00:41:10
Speaker 2: I actually I bought this journal where after each book I read, I write down like sort of my summary of the book and my thoughts because I want to make sure that I am retaining the information and I can remember the books, and I try to write down character names and stuff, so just to like improve my memory. But yeah, reading improves your memory. So I just like really like that. And my fiance loves reading too, so we love to like talk about books and share books together and it's really fun.

00:41:36
Speaker 3: It's a great community.

00:41:37
Speaker 1: That's great. So clearly you have wide ranging interests and talents. And last year you decided that you were not going to become a professional golfer. Could you take me through the experiences that led to that decision.

00:41:55
Speaker 3: I wasn't playing.

00:41:57
Speaker 2: I feel like every college golfer their senior year has some sort of reflection on life and.

00:42:04
Speaker 3: Turning professional, not turning professional.

00:42:06
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of people kind of go through that, and sometimes that leads to, you know, reflecting, Okay, this is what I want. I want to turn professional, and sometimes that leads in the other direction. So I wasn't playing particularly well my senior year, so that was sort of prompting the reflection of, Okay, you know, what are my values.

00:42:27
Speaker 3: What do I love to do? And I do.

00:42:29
Speaker 2: I love practicing, I love competing, but at that time, I think was just a little overwhelmed with just the training and the practicing, and I just thought about, you know, my personality and what I love and what I value, and what I value is just being around a lot of people, like a team and sharing experiences with my family and stuff like that.

00:42:57
Speaker 3: So just a little bit more of a homebody.

00:42:59
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm very extroverted, which also, you know, goes into the part of you know, I love traveling, but I love being with people and like being on a team and stuff, and professional golf is just a little different in that way.

00:43:12
Speaker 3: And I've had the opportunity.

00:43:13
Speaker 2: I've played five professional events and three majors, two US Opens, and played the Chevron Championship too, so I've had.

00:43:20
Speaker 3: My exposure to professional golf.

00:43:22
Speaker 2: So that's where like I feel, you know, very proud of that, and you know, I sort of got a taste.

00:43:29
Speaker 3: Of what professional golf is.

00:43:31
Speaker 2: But I think I just realized that I don't know if it's the lifestyle for me.

00:43:37
Speaker 4: I don't know if it matches exactly what I enjoy, even though like I am very intrinsically motivated, like I can be out practicing and training.

00:43:50
Speaker 2: Like I mean, I have a lot of energy. I can sustain myself for a long time. But where the energy was being put to use, I felt like the consequences were a little too emotionally draining. And you know, you can put in all that work and not get results, like for a long time. So I was like, okay, I was like started to get practical. I was like, okay, I could do this other thing like work for Golf Channel, and it's super stimulating.

00:44:20
Speaker 3: I'm traveling, which I love to do. I can live out of a suitcase.

00:44:23
Speaker 2: I'm with a team that's supportive, and each time I work, I'm constantly improving. You know, you obviously have setbacks here or there, but there's an overall upward trend.

00:44:36
Speaker 3: And I was like, I think, and.

00:44:38
Speaker 2: I you know, it's a little bit of a more consistent payment schedule. So I was like, I think I'm going to.

00:44:46
Speaker 3: Choose this route and see, you know where it takes me.

00:44:49
Speaker 2: That's kind of the mindset and Yeah, it's something I'm really content about. I am really excited for competitive golf next year, like playing in college, because I miss it. But I think once I'm done with that one year, I'm going to be very satisfied. I'll probably still try to qualify for the US Open. I'm going to play in the mid ams, but you know, I'll be really content with what I did as an amateur.

00:45:15
Speaker 1: You're keying in on something about golf that is fairly unique, and that is that sometimes when you work harder at it, you get worse at it.

00:45:25
Speaker 3: Yep.

00:45:26
Speaker 1: And so did that play into your decision? Were you looking for something where there was a somewhat more rational relationship between how much you put into it and how much you got out of it.

00:45:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a really good analysis. I would say, yes, a more rational relationship with my work.

00:45:45
Speaker 3: And I think.

00:45:46
Speaker 2: Because like I am so emotionally invested in golf that it became really hard for me to separate golf from my emotions. So I really needed I needed the break to sort of re kind of like understand where golf was in my life and knowing me and my personality, I just think that golf is you know something that is a great activity for me to do, Like now when I'm on vacation and like stuff with my family and they're like, do you want to play golf, I'm like, yeah, let's do it.

00:46:25
Speaker 3: Let's play thirty six goals. Whereas before I'm like no, Like I'm on vacation, I'm not.

00:46:29
Speaker 2: Trying to play golf right now. So I feel like I love golf in like a whole different way. And I think in this break too, I would have realized if I wanted to play professional golf or not, because I would have sort of understood and matured emotionally. And as I emotionally matured, I realized, actually, like I don't want to play professional golf. And it's not I'm not giving up on anything. I've just decided that I want to do something different. And because I put in all that work, Like if I hadn't put in all that work as an amate golfer, like I would not be working for Golf Channel. Like it was because I was a really good golfer that I was able to be exposed and interviewed like by you know, people in Golf Channel. Then I develop relationship with people, and then I realized that I was good at what I was doing, and so like everything kind of works with each other.

00:47:18
Speaker 3: It's not like, you know, now I have to start from scratch.

00:47:22
Speaker 1: You're not giving up. It's not a waste. I guess nothing in life is a waste to it, no matter what you're doing. But certainly you have been building toward being a golf channel reporter maybe in some ways just as much as you have been building toward being a professional golfer.

00:47:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

00:47:41
Speaker 2: And that's just what I really want to stress to people, especially like young people who are you know, pursuing something like just to you know, dream.

00:47:48
Speaker 3: Big and like work really hard towards that goal.

00:47:51
Speaker 2: And your goal may shift, like I wouldn't say like you're either going to achieve it or not achieve it, Like your goal might shift, but all that work is going to pay off in a different in that context text or another context. So that's something that I really want to stress to people, because I feel like it can be easy to think like, oh, but you just gave up on your dream.

00:48:11
Speaker 3: Well no I didn't. My dream just changed.

00:48:14
Speaker 1: So and the experiences that you've had or are still useful, you know, it still got you to this place. So I know you don't have a crystal Ball, but as you're looking toward your future, say you're you become a reporter, or you become a novelist, it seems like some options are open to you there. How do you think golf will fit into your life? Are you going to be one of these people who goes out and destroys everybody at mid amateur tournaments or do you think you're going to be more of a recreational golfer.

00:48:41
Speaker 3: I'm not. I really don't know where that will lead me.

00:48:44
Speaker 2: I think after I play this last year of college golf and sort of get into the working world, I'll figure that out.

00:48:51
Speaker 3: I think it'd be really cool to still be able.

00:48:53
Speaker 2: To play really good amateur golf, you know, in tournaments and stuff. I don't know if I see myself doing that. I just don't know like where it will lead. I think it would be really cool to be able to do that. So crystal ball, Yeah, like if I could still play you know, pretty good golf and then also report and then you know, write another book on the side, like that would be fantastic. We'll see what happens, But golf will definitely playing golf will be a part of my life. I mean, my whole family plays golf, so that's I use golf as a way to spend time with people, and it's like one of the best way to spend time with people because it takes like four hours, so you got a lot.

00:49:35
Speaker 3: Of time to talk.

00:49:37
Speaker 2: So that's definitely where I see golf fitting in into my life.

00:49:40
Speaker 3: And we'll see.

00:49:41
Speaker 2: If the other other aspects come come alive as well, but that's something that I actually really don't know.

00:49:48
Speaker 3: What will happen.

00:49:50
Speaker 1: Well, Amelia, thank you so much for making the time and the best of luck at Augusta National.

00:49:56
Speaker 3: Thank you so much thanks for having me.

00:50:09
Speaker 1: This episode of the Frida Egg Podcast was edited by Meg Atkins. On Friday of this week, we'll be back with some discussion of the latest golf course design changes at Augusta National. And while you're here, I'll encourage you to go and subscribe to the Fridagg newsletter. We'll have daily editions of the newsletter during Master's Week with all sorts of observations and insights from our team, a few members of which we'll be on site in Augusta. So to subscribe, just go to the Frida egg dot com and click on the subscribe button at the top right. Thanks for listening.