E331 – Why Dogs Start Fighting at Home (And What You Can Do)

[SPEAKER_03]: What's going on, everybody?
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to the Know About Dogs Podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is an incredible podcast from start to finish, just packed with trial and error on two dogs that are having to go at each other in the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: The owner had all the right questions about fixing the dog, not fixing the dog, separating them, not separating them, yada yada, so it's a really good podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: If anybody's out there, anybody out there is dealing with a dog that's fighting with
[SPEAKER_03]: this podcast also I would say that you know if you guys like this podcast and it's helpful send it to your other friends that have dogs that are fighting in the house because um like this person who lives in Norway she literally said between my podcast and my videos and my courses she was able to train her dog beautifully and so
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm grateful for that, but also anybody that's dealing with dogs like this just send this podcast to them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope you guys enjoy this podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a bunch of guests coming up and so I'm super excited for you guys to hear all the things that we got cooking and enjoy this podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very excited to talk to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am
[SPEAKER_00]: I live in Norway and in the boonies in Norway and I do not have access to a lot of local dog trainers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I watch a lot of your YouTube videos, I bought all of your courses and had a lot of help from you and I would like some input on our two dogs at home here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want me to just start explaining stuff and then you just like interrupt me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, there's something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, let's start with them all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have a working
[SPEAKER_00]: So in Norway, it is illegal to neuter dogs without a medical reason, but we are planning on chemically castrate them.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something I would like to talk to you about if we have the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is why they're still intact.
[SPEAKER_00]: So these two boys have been perfectly fine together until maybe two months ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: where the Eurasia started showing some food like a aggression around feeding time.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are fed in two different rooms.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Eurasia has been getting his food in his crate and that's been locked and the kelp he has eaten in the hallway outside of the kitchen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Been fine until two months ago,
[SPEAKER_00]: around the current at the CalPSC pass by to go to the to the couch.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so so the Eurasia is is growling at the CalPSC now in the crate while there's food there when he's walking past.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so we want to be eventually dead was that we just completely did a few
[SPEAKER_00]: things we separated them like physically completely so the kelp could never be visible to the eraser while they were eating.
[SPEAKER_00]: A big eraser would still grow all once he just heard a sound.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, no matter if it was the kelp you're not.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then we started feeding them and separated rooms in the house completely separated floors.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all
[SPEAKER_00]: There's never been anything towards us, but that is the first time these polls had confrontation, like situation, now it has kind of turned into what I would call fights, but I know you see all types of fights, so when I say a fight, I mean that the Eurasia Grouse,
[SPEAKER_00]: The kelp has what I would call like a mini explosion.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of sound a lot of barking.
[SPEAKER_00]: He will, he has like grabbed the eraser.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not been any blood.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not been any pinning down being on top, like any puncture, wounds or blood or anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of sound.
[SPEAKER_00]: And right now they cannot be in the same room together without this happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So basically like it will happen in different situations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything from us sitting down together on the couch.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are allowed on the couch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can have one on each side of me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and the Eurasia is laying there playing with a toy by himself and then I'm sure there's some quiet communication going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can't be on my other side.
[SPEAKER_00]: He will just stare at the Eurasia.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Eurasia will stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: He will like slowly peek over his shoulder and happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then start growling.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they can then.
[SPEAKER_03]: They can be in the same room to get.
[SPEAKER_03]: They can't or they can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they can, but it will turn into a fight.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so they can be in the same room with one another, but if they are, it's only a matter of time before there's a fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's how I feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's happening except for a few things because they have never fought outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: They will play outside around each other, but they don't like, they don't wrestle together.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Eurasia as a ball he loves to kelp as a frisbee, they play with me, but they're outside of leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: They will bump into each other, never had a fight, never growled at each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: We will go on walks, they will be shoulder to shoulder, never growled or knicked at each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: They will be excited in the hallway when they know we're going outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: They will sit next to each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: not care about each other at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when we come inside from being outside for an hour and a half, so they should have spent quite a bit of energy, this will happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where they kind of end up just like looking at each other and they can stare at each other for like 20 seconds and then the eraser would grow and they can't be would kind of explode.
[SPEAKER_03]: yeah so when you when you get back so to me that makes sense because what you're saying is is they don't really mind each other outside because they have space and they're doing their own thing got it and then as soon as you come back inside where you know they have a problem with each other they don't like each other again so that makes sense that yeah totally makes sense that's not surprising so what i also have because this weekend we'll try to have them together quite a bit so that i could
[SPEAKER_00]: watched them very carefully and I've been thinking like, what could Tom Davis ask me about what I'm seeing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I am wondering if I see some resource guarding from the Kelpby.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's my partner in a way out the farm and I've seen that he will come over and he will physically put himself between me and Eurasia and then stare at Eurasia.
[SPEAKER_00]: who would then very, very slowly turn around and kind of slink away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the kelp will follow him and stare at him and the ratio will slowly go to his crate, which is his and the kelp is not allowed in there, and then he will growl.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this has happened like maybe the last two months before this they have played together
[SPEAKER_00]: play fighting together or like refousing a bit the shared toys.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've slept like on top of each other and then this happens and I've tried to do some research thinking okay now the now the u-ray sure is a teenager He is now starting to like pee lifting his leg is done that for the last two weeks I guess he's maturing
[SPEAKER_00]: and now we have an issue and it might be worse because they're both intact, but I'm trying to see I really don't want to mess this up because these guys are so important to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to try to figure out what I can do to make this go away basically.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so what would be your goal here?
[SPEAKER_00]: My goal is for them to be able to be in the same room and not be stressed and eventually fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dad.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so that that is basically what I would like to try to get some advice on what I can try to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that you're a world away and you haven't seen them, so yeah, I would say this I would agree that you are correct that the younger dog, the Eurasia, I never heard of that breed by the way, but oh yeah, yeah, it's it's a nice
[SPEAKER_00]: except for the last couple of months and not a working dog at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's basically my husband's dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just walking around with him on the farm.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're basically bred to be a companion dog that has no job.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm very low energy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm looking at it now.
[SPEAKER_03]: It kind of looks like a shepherd in a chow mix or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, there is chow key sound and some way
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Fluffy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Fluffy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fluffy thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he has some tough breeds in him, we're like the child and the family at the bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they go so well without their dogs, like the kelp is so tolerant with other dogs, like people lay down and let small dogs like jump all over him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when they get these two getting to the house, they just hate each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they have never redirected towards us humans interacting with their fight in any way, neither of the dogs.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's good, that's helpful.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say that you're right on your...
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say that you're right on the fact that the erasure got mature and now you're starting to see a change.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very common.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've had this conversation a lot of times with a lot of people, so a lot of people deal with this same thing all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very, very, very, very, very, very common.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you could almost anticipate that if you have two intact males, as soon as one of them hits that maturity age between eight to 14 months, this is what you're going to see.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: that's why a lot of people will like I know for an example what you know when I got my dog it was a lot of questions about other dogs in the house just because these things are are very common and so you know what happens is the dog start to get more protective testosterone starts flying around
[SPEAKER_03]: They get more protective and also they just feel more bold.
[SPEAKER_03]: They feel more confident.
[SPEAKER_03]: They sometimes could even feel conflicted And so it's a lot of hormones going on and that's what you start to see is and so here's the thing that a lot of dog owners get kind of frustrated with is You have to understand that
[SPEAKER_03]: The dog you the dog that it you have now is Behaviorally different than the dog you had when they were puppy and that's where that's where for me I see it black and white dog owners don't because they're like all of a sudden This is going on or I might my dog's got along so well up into this point or whatever and it's like yeah, but
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, kids, whatever kids do in their little, versus what we do as adults now are exactly the opposite, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So, the dog starts to become an adult dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: Therefore, a lot of the behavior, the personality, their feelings, their emotions, their hormones, everything that they had when they were babies goes away and changes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so now you're having the dog that you're going to have for the rest of your life.
[SPEAKER_03]: and so that's where a lot of dog owners get very confused and of course frustrated because they think something happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: They think that you did something or the training isn't good or whatever and that's usually not the case.
[SPEAKER_03]: The case is, is
[SPEAKER_03]: Your dog is now an adult dog and has different feelings towards the other dog and now you're dealing with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I would say that there is a chance that they're never going to get along again.
[SPEAKER_03]: That that is a chance for sure because intact males typically don't get on together.
[SPEAKER_03]: That often.
[SPEAKER_03]: It can happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've seen it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've seen it with my own dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: It really just depends on the
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, because every time that my dog has gotten along with another intact male, the other intact male has been goofy and funny and not stand off-ish and not protective and so it can happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you get two dogs that are starting to feel like they need to do a certain thing, like maybe be protective or be the leader or
[SPEAKER_03]: whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, these things can happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the idea on the table that the dogs may never get along is possible.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's frustrating, it's unfortunate sucks, bubble, blah.
[SPEAKER_03]: As far as like cast or doing whatever you guys can do legally over there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's worth a shot.
[SPEAKER_03]: of a dog once you start messing with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's zero.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you ask you as a hundred different people, you'll get a hundred one different answers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it really just depends on the dog and everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've heard it gets better.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've heard it gets worse.
[SPEAKER_03]: I heard that it doesn't change.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I've heard it and heard it and heard it and heard it and so you just never know.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I wouldn't.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, it's definitely worth a shot, but it may it also may not change
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So things that, you know, things that you can do realistically, in my opinion, would be a lot of control, a lot of acclamation, doing what you're already doing, creating them in separate places when they're eating and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I would also just be really trying to focus on the trigger.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the trigger right now is inside for sure, and it could
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... you just don't know but it sounds like it's a pretty clear when they go inside and it could just be a smaller space it could be it could be a many different dogs are so weird sometimes it's like well the crate their crates inside their food bulls inside uh... they know you whatever it is it's tough to be
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it when, you know, is it when they're under a roof or when is it when, you know, the who knows?
[SPEAKER_03]: So for me, there's things that you can do that you have control over and there's things that you don't have control over and the things you don't have control over is Let's get the dog fixed in the way that you can in your country and see if that changes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you can do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other things, and again, but you can't control what happens after, I mean, because there's a good chance that nothing changes whatsoever except now one of the dogs can't reproduce.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, outside of that, I mean, you really got to look at the reality here of what can we do to make this successful.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have this conversation a lot of times, as you have to think about what's the most stressful thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, okay, well, the most stressful thing is them fighting inside, and then you go, okay, do we know when they're gonna fight?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, pretty much if they're in the same room, they're gonna fight inside.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, can we keep the dog separate inside?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a question for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's up to you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't matter to me, but those are the realities.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, if I have two dogs that are, let's say God forbid knock on wood,
[SPEAKER_03]: It would be obviously a conversation of, is, could our, how much is this going to affect their life, meaning is it even realistic and fair to keep one of the dogs?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, is, rehoming the dog on the table?
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are conversations, obviously you can have by yourself, but I mean, that's a first conversation.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would honestly have with myself and my family to say, hey, I have two young kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a giant, you know, I have big dogs.
[SPEAKER_03]: I travel a lot, it may not be around all the time, like, is this fit, it's not even realistic in a sense of, well, I don't want the dogs to fight, it's more about I don't want to have to keep the dogs in an environment where they're not getting fulfilled because they don't like the other roommate that they live with that they didn't get the choose.
[SPEAKER_03]: you know what I mean like if I if I said okay I work let's say for an example I'm I'm on the computer or working from home or in the office 10 hours a day Monday through Friday and on the weekends it's kid time and family time and whatever but the dogs can't be free roaming in the house so one of them has to be in a crate all at all times in order for them to not go after each other or whatever that wouldn't be fair
[SPEAKER_03]: that would be, that just wouldn't be that fair, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So in a big, okay, well, if I can re-home this dog and then give him a better life or her, better life, in a home where there's no other dogs in Bubbleva, then that's a conversation that you could have.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other thing is, is, well, we've already done it so far, we keep the dog separate and, you know, we live in a house where we can baby get things off and they're not huge dogs that are going to barrel through the wall,
[SPEAKER_03]: that's our life, you know, that's an option too, kind of keeping them separated.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, that is a realistic option, that a lot of people already do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do it to some extent just because my dog's size to be honest.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's really big.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have two little kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: I keep him pretty separated like I walk him two to three times a day.
[SPEAKER_03]: He comes to work with me sometimes.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's down on my office with me sometimes, but he's created or outside a lot of the time just because of his sheer size.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he can't just be wandering around the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: because he will not kids over, he's still going through puppy stages.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, like you have to just decide, like what's, if you can say, hey, I'm going to separate the house, one is on one side, one is on the other and you just crack on with life and that's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you just make sure you and whoever you live with are on the same page.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then that's it, done.
[SPEAKER_03]: 100% 100% success.
[SPEAKER_03]: it'll never happen again and then you also have your moments where they're outside and they're completely fine so again you would go through the process of hey when they go outside whether it's a backyard or whatever you're dealing with and they get along and everything's fine right we can go out there they can do their own thing they're off leash they're having fun life is great okay amazing but when you do your protocols for coming in you want to make sure you don't bottle neck them in to the same area right when you come in the house obviously
[SPEAKER_03]: So you would just be like, all right, well, whenever we're ready to come in, I'm just going to leash one up and I'm going to bring them inside one at a time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's it done.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you have a huge advantage when we talk about the cases of dogs not like any other potentially forever, because it's a no-go anywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: You kind of have a unique and in my opinion, and advantage, because you can say, when my dogs get along fine outside, it's just when we bring them inside
[SPEAKER_03]: that creates tension.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's a huge, I mean, I mean, I know it's frustrating for you, but I'm just giving you an objective perspective here that many people would be happy with that too.
[SPEAKER_03]: So again, you just have to go through your routines and your structure in your home to say, and I'm going to get to the other option here in a minute, but I mean, that's an option
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think a lot of people when they have the unrealistic expectation or unfair expectation, they live in this constant, well, I wish I could get this, or I wish, can we push to here or you kind of feel discouraged or you feel ashamed that you can't break through when the reality is, that's not going to happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not up to you.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not up to the training.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not up to how much time you spend with the dogs.
[SPEAKER_03]: that's their personalities and this is what you got.
[SPEAKER_03]: So as soon as you kind of make it a realistic thing where you're going, okay, they're never going to get along and I'm not going to stress them out me out my whole family whoever lives me out by trying to make a square going around whole.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to have this new life of separation and that's it and it just becomes part of your everyday life and you really just forget about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you hang on to the idea of wanting it to go back to the way it was, you're always going to be unhappy chasing, you know, chasing that tale that you're never going to catch.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's an option and then I think the last like realistic option would be trying to Trying to get to the bottom of it, but judging by what you've told me
[SPEAKER_03]: So getting to the bottom of it would be trying to modify their behavior would be you know they and then that's a whole process It's possible, but in my professional opinion I think you're always going to be walking on egg shells now that they've gone after each other a couple times and there's that tension
[SPEAKER_03]: Even if they don't fight or go after each other, I think that you're still going to be kind of holding your breath.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I always have these conversations with people, like, okay, what if you muscled them both, you know, and I don't know it's legal in your country or whatever, but you muscled them both, you e-collar trained in whatever whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: and now you can get to a point where they're in the house and you can correct them if they look at each other, you can correct them if they get near each other and you can even correct them if they do have a little fight.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's a possibility of decreasing the outbreaks, if you will, decreasing the fights, decreasing the tension.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that could be helpful.
[SPEAKER_03]: However, I just think from experience dog owners because they've already seen the little violent fights that you're still going to be holding your breath even if you do do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So then your stress levels are the exact same.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the ROI or the return on investment or the risk over reward here is, well, let's let them roaming the house, even though they don't really like each other and we're going to have to just police them.
[SPEAKER_03]: every minute that they're out and supervise them and so it's like what's the what's the reward here like you guys are stressed you're watching them you're you're waiting to intervene the dogs obviously have tension and they're looking at each other and they're not super
[SPEAKER_03]: comfortable in that situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, what's the point?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, if they, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: If they naturally, it's like me, you know, it's like, forcing somebody to go to something they don't want to go to.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you need to go to this concert with me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to go to this concert with me, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like that type of music, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you force them to go and then they go and they're just unhappy the whole time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's just leave.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's like, okay, you could have just went.
[SPEAKER_03]: and enjoyed yourself instead of forcing a situation that ended up just ruining the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So same thing with the dogs, in my opinion, is we, again, do all the safety precautions at the training protocols, again, that's subjective to, you know, your country and your
[SPEAKER_03]: You do the whole thing and now you have to supervise and regardless, like no matter what training you do you still have to you still have to watch them So now you're supervising them to make sure nothing happens and then your stress is even more than if you just would have just said hey one on this side of the house one on the other side of the house Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do understand so in In your opinion and with your expertise This is not something that will
[SPEAKER_00]: settle by itself once we're done with puberty and they're both adults.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, yeah, I mean, in my experience, just with data, it's, it's a lot of times something that doesn't resolve on its own.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of times.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, and again, I want you to think of it like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: The dog was an adolescent puppy and then became an adult.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now the dog that's in the adult is what you're going to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the real dog that you're going to see for the next 10 years or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's the same thing I tell people when they're training their puppy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like they get this cute little eight week old puppy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, you're not training a puppy.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're training your adult dog in the in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: because you're a little puppy right now, that's the size of a loaf of bread, is gonna end up being this big, and that's the dog you're actually training.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I know they're cute, and you should enjoy that, and take it all in, and be, do all the cutesy things, and whatever, enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But just know whatever manners and obedience and boundaries and all that stuff that you want your adult dog to have.
[SPEAKER_03]: You should be, you know, we don't wait for kids to get to, you know, the 18 till we start teaching them stuff, right, for a reason.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, that would make any sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, so yeah, in my opinion, just from the data that I've seen as a professional, once they get to that adult point, they're both like, hey, I'm an adult now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm an adult now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like you.
[SPEAKER_03]: It typically doesn't resolve on its own.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, um, but I'll say that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's kind of the caveat to my last little tip or advice or pillar or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: You, you could have your cake and eat it too with last stress with having really good obedience or really good skill sets.
[SPEAKER_03]: So for an example, just like,
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't have good skill sets, in skill sets, you can relate to obedience, basic obedient skills, behaviors, sit down, stay healed, place, leave, etc.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't have those things, and then you throw a behavioral problem on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It'd be like having an autoimmune disease and then also being overweight, like you have two different problems and neither of them help each other and you have to kind of work on both of those things separately.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, if you have two dogs that are fighting in the house or have tension in the house, if you don't have anything, then your life is going to be really difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you have more control, your life is going to be far less stressful.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you come into the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: One dog looks at the other.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You say, hey, go to your bed.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you can immediately send the dog away and diffuse the situation like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So does it change the base and the principle of them not getting along?
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't change any of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But what it does do is it diffuses the stress in your life, which is the potential little fight.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: So.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a huge, it's a huge, and I just worked with a giant dog with a severe bite history, multiple bites, two days ago, and one of the things they were saying is they wanted to do all this training and I said this is great, this training is going to be really great for you, but you have to be honest with yourself that this training isn't going to change the way that you move in life with your dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your dog has a bite history, so one of the things that they said
[SPEAKER_03]: maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: And here's the same thing for you with your training.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said the reality is that your dog has a bite history does not like new people.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's never going to change no matter what what training you do.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you do a boredon train with us, you still are going to be living the same life you were living before, which means he can't go to anybody and nobody can go to him.
[SPEAKER_03]: So my point is, if you do training, it's not going to change the way they feel about each other.
[SPEAKER_03]: However, it can definitely help you through, like if you have a great day and that's pulling you all over the place and what's the kill people, that's a huge problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: if you have a great day in that heals absolutely perfect and listens to everything you say and as long as you tell people that they gain a approach in vice versa you're going to you're going to be a hundred percent successful so you in your home if you don't have the ability to say hey dog one leave it or dog two come back to me there's tension
[SPEAKER_03]: Or, you know, let's say, you know, the way that your home is set up with whoever lives with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: One of them lets the dogs out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it doesn't sound to me like they're just going to go immediately after each other.
[SPEAKER_03]: There has to be some sort of passing or eye contact or even an item or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's different because some people actually deal with the other side, which is the dogs are waiting for an opportunity to just get at each other.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, but my point is, is if that happens, you can go, oh, come, and then the dog goes, oh, I know what that is, they come back and you put them on the other side, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can't always change like the environment in which it happens.
[SPEAKER_03]: Example, the other day there's a, there's one golden retriever in my neighborhood that my dog doesn't love and vice versa because the other dog goes after my dog constantly.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so now they have beef.
[SPEAKER_03]: My point is, I was in my garage.
[SPEAKER_03]: I opened my garage door.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was standing at my stairs.
[SPEAKER_03]: My dog was at the other end of the garage waiting for it to come up and who was in the road, right when I did that and I was 23 away.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Golden Rageriever.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I told my dog to down, jup and stay perfect.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were standing right there and I just walked up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I grabbed the leash and it was perfect.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I didn't have that obedience, that,
[SPEAKER_03]: likely would have been an issue he would have probably taken off or barked or whatever and I don't really know but my point is is be cut the same thing for you the reason why I'm telling you is it's the same exact thing for you if you have more obedience because obedience is your communication so if you have good if you don't have good obedience you don't have good foundation and you don't have good communication so if you're trying to work things out between two dogs in the household but you can't communicate with them you got no
[SPEAKER_03]: So those are all like the pillars that you have to or the buckets or whatever that you have to really focus on as you're going through this with with the dogs.
[SPEAKER_03]: But like I said, there is a possibility that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You work the dogs in a way that they can be like, you know, you want to sit down on the couch at night and you want the two dogs in your in your room.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's possible to do like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not unrealistic.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, but but you have to have skill sets.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to have them listen to you, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: It'd be like anything else in the world that involves.
[SPEAKER_03]: a good leader, right, doesn't matter if you're in a prison, you're in a school or whatever, right, you have to have somebody that says, you there, you there, done.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody be in place, be in position, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't matter what you run in a race or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's got to be in place.
[SPEAKER_03]: So again, you're like, yeah, I want them to be in the same room with me and I want to enjoy their company or whatever, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And you could do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, this actually gives me a lot of hope because my husband and I we basically have a dog each and all we want to do is to be able to eat dinner together right and maybe watch an episode of something and not have a dog fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if if we actually do more training like just to be able to tell them to like go to go to the bed and just stay there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That will be a lot of help and.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could definitely see that as just being a goal, just so that we don't feel like we can be together at some point too out today.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that actually gives me a lot of hope because I know that I have more training I can do with my healthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had an issue where he seemed completely uninterested in training.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has no interest.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not food motivated.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not toy motivated.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wants his first B.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the first B is out, he sees nothing but the first B.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can't really use that in between commands either because I can't get through to him if the first B is out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you could use it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could try to use it to your advantage too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like if you have the obsession or the drive or the motivation for the Frisbee, you can try to put that into a, you know, pay attention to me type thing, which would be helpful for you, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, as long as the other dog isn't sitting there begging for the Frisbee that they won't, you know, that I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't care about the Frisbee whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is good, at least, I was going to ask about this when it comes to the kelp because he, the only things thing he loves in the world is pancakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know why.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, same, same buddy, same.
[SPEAKER_00]: So is it fine to just like, OK, we train with pancakes, then?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the only thing he will work for right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't care, but I have so many types of treats in the house for dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if the pancakes comes out, he's just like he's drooling.
[SPEAKER_03]: that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I would do whatever you can.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would just be like, you know, and this kind of goes without saying, I would say is like, you know, obviously, you don't want to create any issues between the two dogs of feeding them at the table or anything like that, and I know that you're not doing that, but I'm just just saying, but yeah, I mean, I'm super, listen, I'm super, super big on doing whatever works.
[SPEAKER_03]: like that's been my like that's been my whole career is just trying to navigate through dog training and doing whatever works and eliminating things that don't work to be efficient.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so yeah if you say hey my dog loves pancakes and he'll go to his place for pancakes or whatever then yeah I mean obviously just you know minimalize the amount and and also you know whatever make sure that it's cleanest you know the ingredients or cleanest possible
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you just make them super healthy and you can actually make them really clean and beneficial to the dog with different types of oats and whatever, and so yeah, absolutely, I would, you know, cut it up and use it as your food and again, like if you can teach him to go to his bed and stay there for an entire Netflix episode and the other dog the same and you can have your cake and eat it to like,
[SPEAKER_03]: that would be ideal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Ideally, you would want to be able to have the individual discretionary control over each dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you could say, you go there, you go there.
[SPEAKER_03]: OK, now you can break, but you have to stay there and the dogs are just, I mean, that's the way to get to a point where you're able to live a life, even though the dogs don't necessarily agree with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know that that works.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a really big,
[SPEAKER_00]: farm basically so like also a big farm house.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they can one can be a own couch or one can be on the other couch.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it sounds like we just need to upper training and yeah adjust our expectations that this is not necessarily going to pass in two months because we're done with puberty.
[SPEAKER_00]: We do need to adjust what we expect of them, which is fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just requires more from us,
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm willing to do what it or try whatever to make this work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to ask you something else regarding the kelp.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I was watching a one of your YouTube episodes and on the reactive course that about from you too, you talk about a Tibetan Mass Deaf at some point too.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't like people and
[SPEAKER_00]: you basically tell the owner that he's probably not going to start just loving people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like at some point, you shouldn't put him in a situation where he's forced to deal with people, because that's not going to make it better.
[SPEAKER_00]: My, my kelp is unsure about people.
[SPEAKER_00]: He loves dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: He loves dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: People, he will bark at.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's never bitten.
[SPEAKER_00]: he will sniff them and then the best thing I get is that he just ignores them.
[SPEAKER_00]: He do not take treats from people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say I'm not tried pancakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not tried pancakes, but he refuses to take treats and then he wants nothing to do with a person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess I'm trying to figure out if he's just a dog who doesn't like people.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I should not push him into those situations because that will make it worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if this is a dog that I can try to socialize more and maybe he will learn to like people.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a good question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think here's my first initial reaction is that that's gonna be predicated off the people unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that that's a difficult thing to, you know, it's like saying hey, we're gonna win the game today.
[SPEAKER_03]: it depends what the other team does you know it's it's like how they play you know it's the same thing with with your dog like you go sit for an example you say hey um yeah my dog does really great they go up to sniff a new person if that person stays neutral and doesn't look at my dog doesn't talk to my dog doesn't touch my dog we're great
[SPEAKER_03]: But then you go to another person and then they get down on the dog's level, pet the dog in the face, blah, blah, blah, hug the dog, then you're in trouble.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's my initial reaction.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you have to define really what you want to do because if your definition is to
[SPEAKER_03]: be successful in neutral.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's something that you don't really need other people to do anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we go around 10 people waiting in line for coffee outside.
[SPEAKER_03]: All you would need to do is just stand there and pay the dog with pancakes and the dog's like, yeah, bring on people.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't care about people.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's my definition of neutrality, by the way, is just being able to be, you know, it's the difference between going to a busy bar and you're comfortable in your own skin, talking to the person you went there with and you're good.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the moment other people come up and talk to you, oh, I don't know about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: You nervous, you shut down, you can't talk.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, okay, let's just take one step out of time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, just go into a situation and be neutral.
[SPEAKER_03]: advocate for your dog and tell people they can't pet your dog but but you have to just define that because a lot of people that I talk to you know they want their dog to be okay with being pet by strangers and I'm like that's not that's not up to you actually has nothing to do with you at all it first comes from the dog and then second comes in the other person and then third fate you know it doesn't have anything to do with you
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I do not need him to love people, and you know, even if it's not as big as early, he is big enough and he sounds big enough that people will get scared of him if you just if he barks at them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if he can just sit there and if they ignore him, he ignores them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that that would be my goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Easy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Easy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's that's what I would say
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So taking him out into our small town out there in the blue nascent is watch people and give him pancakes and then just watch his body language to see if he's just had enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just to see suddenly it can turn into this negative thing if I force sinning to super social situations.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know I would just keep it, you know, keep it, keep them hungry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and you know, that way you have a better shot, but yeah, I mean that's how that's how I would say it's going to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the more I like work with him and after like going through your reactive dog course to, I do believe he is a reactive dog, just not at dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's also very reactive to sounds inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: which I'm a little unsure what to, how to approach because he, we have never had an intruder to the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's actually never been an axe murder.
[SPEAKER_00]: So so he, he hasn't learned that something bad can come into the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if he's sleeping, he has been outside, he's on the
[SPEAKER_00]: He, within one second, he has barked six times and is standing on the middle of the floor and then he wags his tail because it's only his only my mom who's come through a door and then he comes back to the couch and lays down because he knows he's not allowed to jump on her, but it's that initial reactivity.
[SPEAKER_00]: how he like is that just how he is?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that is there anything I can do about that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Not really.
[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, I would say I would say no.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mainly because that's a dog being a dog and I would say no.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not a lack of leadership that he trusts that I can to care what's
[SPEAKER_00]: So he says directs the reacting to some things coming into our space.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's been a dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's been a dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, if somebody came to ring my doorbell right now, both my dogs would go crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they have good training and they're confident, but there's been dogs.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, but the caveat to that is,
[SPEAKER_03]: And the moment that you then say, hey, quit barking is that's realistic like that's something you can do So you can't set the initial mark in the reaction because that's just being a dog being a dog But what you can do is you can Change what they do after So you can't always tell people like you can't you can't change way dogs feel but you can change the way they act Yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can kind of fake it to you make it, but for me it would be the dog barking and reacting and then you would say, hey, leave it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Go to your bed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you would work through that that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yes, so just more more training on that, but so yeah, just so that I had just my expectation that initial reaction that it's just him being a dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not a lack of something like that I'm not doing something, most likely or hopefully it's just him being a dog, yeah, but that is, that is good, like training, why, like when, when it comes to giving a dog a command,
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any advice when it comes to how to like speed up their reaction, because if I say sit or down, he can spend like a good 15 seconds lowering his butt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's doing what I'm telling him to, but it's so it's very slow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a couple of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say a lot of times this starts from the beginning, starts with a foundation.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the dog, like when we teach a dog, had a, it's like they're base, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like if we teach a dog to sit, and in the beginning, we've allowed them to do a really sloppy, slow sit, then that's the first step.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you haven't, if you weren't
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the first thing you should look at is you know like hey the beginning of my training I want the dog to go slow.
[SPEAKER_03]: I let the dog go slow and I paid the dog for going slow Okay, well, if that's been your training So there's a step on you have to audit that yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, I kind of let him get away with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, then you're it's your fault So the next thing is yeah, so the next thing is is
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, adding a little bit of pressure to make things faster.
[SPEAKER_03]: So for an example, you say, sit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, a lot of times if it's a stable dog, a confident dog, a dog, that's not going to be overwhelmed with pressure.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can add pressure to amplify and make the sit faster.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you say, sit.
[SPEAKER_03]: By the way, the T comes out of your mouth if the dog isn't already starting to sit, you can add pressure and then the dog sits and then you remove the pressure.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's called negative reinforcement, so you're reinforcing the sit by adding pressure and then the dog will know that when you say sit, they got to get their butt in the gum faster without turning on the pressure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's the easiest way to do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then of course you pay the dog obviously on time as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So teaching the dog like as soon as you put your butt in the ground, you get the payment, pancake, but also there's pressure if you take your time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then also understand that it's going to take time because that's what you allowed in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you've literally shaped and molded that behavior for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now you're going to start punishing it, which is going to be a little conflicting, but as long as the dog is confident and stable, you'll push through it in a couple of days and that'll be it.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, that sounds very doable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm sure it's me, but not really pay the attention to it, and then yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'll have this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's, that's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something I can definitely rectify.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to hurting dogs, and I don't know if how much experience you have with hurting dogs, in particular, but I wanted to ask you
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess it's almost a myth and people will say different things, but I have now read a few different places that for a herding dog, the basically have two batteries, one is for a mental and physical basically the other yeah mental and physical battery and the other is the herding battery and that you should have some outlet for herding.
[SPEAKER_00]: for them, even if you have other type of physical activity, is that something you have experienced to be sure?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I usually tell people like dogs have two different tanks.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very similar to what you were just explaining.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like dog as a mental and the physical tank.
[SPEAKER_03]: So physically you can run dogs for miles and they are completely content after.
[SPEAKER_03]: They logo another 10 miles.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the mental stimulation is really important as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So getting the dog to think, especially for hurting dogs, which is a working dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: They need to think they were bred to make decisions constantly all day.
[SPEAKER_03]: Go here, go here, go here, move, move, move, move, move, move.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then if you get home and then you don't do anything with them, they start to backfire.
[SPEAKER_03]: They get really, they can get anxious, they could take it out on other things, they can get frustrated, they can see tension, agitation, anger, aggression, all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I would agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I started doing something called urban hurting with him because we don't have things yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he, he seems to really enjoy that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then I think we'll just keep keep doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to to neutering, um, you, you earlier, you said that, uh, you also heard both that they can, um, a dog with behavior issues if you neutered them, they might
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that is why a veterinarian told me that because my kelp was unsure about people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he basically said, my body, my choice at the vet.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do have to muscle him there that I should not neuter him yet because the lack
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's why I wanted to ask you what your thought is here because you're an expert on behaviors and work with reactive dogs and the veterinarian is good at medications and anatomy and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to ask you if I have a dog that might be unsure in certain situations like
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'm worried about making a mistake, like making it worse at the same time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that it's challenging to have an intact male.
[SPEAKER_00]: In your experience, this is a dog that you would have neutered.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'll say this, we are planning on fixing my bore bull.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the goal.
[SPEAKER_03]: After he's hit his two-year mark, which would be now.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we plan on fixing him early next year, next couple months.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because,
[SPEAKER_03]: he is, he's very protective and he's very intense.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not going to go away.
[SPEAKER_03]: However, the intensity and him having the ability to hit the NAS button on his body and dump that testosterone,
[SPEAKER_03]: amplifies intensifies a lot of it and so my thing with keeping dogs intact is mainly for their structure and their bone development and their overall development.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why in your country it's probably illegal to do it because a lot of countries they do it as soon as the dog is born not really but closely they're after and then the dog never gets a chance to develop and then of course you have all the risks of all the different things.
[SPEAKER_03]: So
[SPEAKER_03]: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
[SPEAKER_03]: If it makes it better, I'm in a better position, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because if he just gets more reactive, I'm in the same.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because right now, the big thing for him is he's super protective of him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we could go walking downtown and he really doesn't care about other dogs.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's at my training facility and doesn't even look at another dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: In my neighborhood, because he's an intact male, because he goes around and pees on everything, basically when he sees another dog, that dog is in his ham.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like in his home.
[SPEAKER_03]: So think about that, like, so for me, I'm like, okay, if I can read, like if a dog looks at him wrong when we're in our neighborhood, he goes 100%.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has good obedience, but he's 150 pounds of muscle and I'm the only person in my in his life that can actually walk him safely, which is not ideal.
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, my goal would be for him to decrease that explosion.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's just what I did just to give you perspective.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like what I'm personally doing with my dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't think it's going to make anything worse on your end because right now you're only option is to separate them.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if it makes a more aggressive, if it makes a more anxious, you're still doing the same exact thing that you're already doing and you're like, okay, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: if it makes it better, it's kind of a win-win, if it makes it better, amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now you have an opportunity to do, you know, you have more room for, for less room for error, or more room for error, which I should say.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, it's, it could change a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, same thing for me, like if I go out and my dog's like, yeah, I still don't like dogs in my neighborhood, I'm like, okay, that didn't change, or if he's like making it, making a decision to be, you know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: you got food for me instead dad yeah here you go buddy okay cool then that could that could change the game made of my wife would be able to to safely walk um or whatever um so so you just you didn't never know so I would agree your veterinarian likely doesn't know anything about behavior so we shouldn't really be asking them about behavioral advice um but yeah and it's just you
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a structurally you would say that it is okay to neuter a dog around two years old.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean that's typically like what the research I've been seeing and and like that's when they're that's it depends on the breed like the bigger breeds take a little bit longer to fill out but I would say
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to talk to his breeder about it, too, to see what he recommends, because, you know, I want to make sure that I don't stun any growth on the big guy, but yeah, that's just the things I've been seeing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that answers our couple of other questions for me, too, because our, you're a sure is, it's quite small.
[SPEAKER_00]: He almost died after he was born and he's just,
[SPEAKER_00]: quite a bit smaller than the the breed standard says.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do not want to neuter him early.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll do some more research, but okay, so maybe around two years old is the time to get get neutered.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I don't think like right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the worst that's going to happen?
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to do exactly what you're already doing by separating them.
[SPEAKER_03]: If it makes if it helps, then you're like, oh, wow, there's a huge positive gain here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if I neuter the kelp and keep the ratio intact because he's not fully two years old, do you think that can make even more of an imbalance?
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause now I have one intact and one neuter.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really tough to say.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's that's the problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've talked to veterinarians about this and, you know, the only thing that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to re-establish it with somebody soon in my podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: The only thing that we know for sure is they can't breed and their testosterone is gone So those are the only things we know for sure outside of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's all It's all temperament.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all luck of the draw.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all you don't you just don't know what's gonna happen
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it depends on the, you know, the chemistry in the dog's body and their age and their environment and how their personality is to begin with, you just, you just don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know we have reached our hour, so I, uh, I just wanted to thank you for your time and, uh, for old information that you put out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of these dog communities are very pro-like, like the E-Colors illegal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was still able to get a dog truck your E-Colour into the country.
[SPEAKER_00]: The kelp is amazing on the E-Colour.
[SPEAKER_00]: I took your course because I can't go to a, come go to a trainer and ask them to train me so I took your course and he responds so well on the E-Colour and it's just changed our dynamic outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: for you putting this stuff out there, and available for us who conquer you personally, basically.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm glad that it's helpful for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been very, very helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for this too, it's to talk to you for an hour that's been very helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you have a great rest of your day and a great Christmas.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much, you as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good luck, good luck with everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, Tom.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're welcome.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.