RHONY: Eboni and Ivory

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to Reality with the King. I'm Carlos King, the King of Reality TV. For those of you who don't know me, let me give you a little backstory about why everyone calls me the King of reality TV. I have been producing high profile TV for over ten years and not responsible for some of the most unforgettable moments in reality TV history, like the Real Housewives of Atlanta seasons one through four and six through nine, and the first two seasons of the Real Housewives of New Jersey. I was the magician behind those marvelous women. Honey, Yes, so look Teresa's table flip. Yeah, honey, your boy was there hiding underneath the table, making sure that book was on display. I have done spin offs with the Real Housewives franchise like Candy's Wedding and Candy Ski Trip, while also building an empire of my own. I now run my own production company called Kingdom Rank Entertainment, where I created shows like Stelling, Hollywood BT Presents, Beyond Core, and Hollywood Divas. And I just launched a new franchise, Love and Marriage. That's right, Love and Marriage is coming to DC with none other than Missus Monique, Samuel's.

00:01:23
Speaker 2: Gag buddy yes, I mean get it too.

00:01:26
Speaker 1: My resume, As Beyonce said, check my credentials. I give you everything you want and everything you need. Come on, be so here on Reality with the King. You guys are getting an established reality TV producer to discuss all things reality television. We'll sit down with my friends across the entertainment industry, recap our favorite shows, and revisit unforgettable moments that we are still talking and tweeting about. Me.

00:01:58
Speaker 2: Hey, y'all so lucky.

00:02:00
Speaker 1: My first guest on Reality with the King is none other than be Honey, Miss Ebanie K Williams. Her announcement as the first black housewife of the Real Housewives of New York City immediately took social media by storm, and we were all so excited for her reality TV debut. Unfortunately, her patrol on the show ruffled a few feathers.

00:02:25
Speaker 2: A couple of those feathers from mind child.

00:02:29
Speaker 1: With the cast and for those watching at home, and for that very reason, I knew I needed to sit down with Ebanie not only to get her take on Bravo's unprecedented decision to split the Real Housewives of New York City into two shows, but also to get the chance to get to know Ebanie for ourselves. Now, let's get into my conversation with miss Ebanie k williams Andy Cohen announced that The Real Housewives of New York City was going to be split into two shows, one called at you know, working title, but one called The Real Housewives of New York City Legacy or the Ogs, which is about, of course, the familiar faces of the franchise, and the other one is going to be called The Real Housewives of New York City, except this one, and I quote, will be a multi cultural.

00:03:36
Speaker 2: Caz of real friends.

00:03:39
Speaker 1: Ebany, When you first learned of this information, where were you?

00:03:44
Speaker 2: What happened?

00:03:45
Speaker 1: And did you find out? Along with us peasants? I e the audience.

00:03:50
Speaker 3: So I was right here in this Airbnb and I was working, and I got it. I did get an advanced call from production to let me know the details.

00:04:00
Speaker 2: How much in advanced though, girl.

00:04:02
Speaker 3: You know, I can't say, okay, I can't say, I can't say was.

00:04:06
Speaker 2: It was it hours before it was.

00:04:08
Speaker 3: Enough for me to not be shocked when when the general populace found out, I was informed, and I was in my feelings for about two seconds only because you know, I feel very strongly that I did everything in my power, everything I knew, to do everything I could do to show up full throttle as my inaugural season as a housewife. I feel very strongly that several of the aspects of the traditional housewife experience, which you know all too well because you helped curate the shit.

00:04:45
Speaker 4: Were absent from my season. We're in a lockdown.

00:04:49
Speaker 3: It's New York, so it's not the same as a lockdown in other parts of the country. It was no dice, there was no international trip, there was no glamour, there was no glitter. So it just was lacking of the fun that housewives is known for. So I was looking forward to coming back season fourteen, no questions asked, to have that real like almost like a duo, you know. I was looking forward to that experience. So when I got the call that that's not happening, we're starting from the ground up and essentially, you, just like every other bitch in New York, will have the same opportunity to present a coalition of your actual social circle that represents the diversity of New York's it women, and we'll go from there. So essentially, you know, it's starting over from the ground up. So I did feel a way about that emotionally for about two seconds, and then I put my big girl panties on Carlos and I said, this is actually more than fair to me from a network perspective, and frankly just from a consumer of content perspective. The audience deserves to see what has always made Housewives successful, which is not a.

00:06:03
Speaker 4: Plug and play, you know, pasting situation.

00:06:08
Speaker 3: It is a curation of an existing friend group of women of different personalities, different dynamics, different aspects coming together and living that out loud for television. That's Housewives, not what it had become in New York, which was listen. It was that in the beginning, and then they realized that's a flight to the city of New York because it's so white and a particular kind of white that really excludes the vast majority of New Yorkers and women in New York. And I only know that to be true now, Carlos, more than I did before I was on the show, because I was getting women of all coaches. I was getting blonde, white women, I was getting Middle East of women, I was getting Muslim women, Jewish women, Caribbean women, Haitian women, saying it was so nice for them to see me on season thirteen because they felt finally a woman they could relate to, and again including some white women, but these were white women that were frankly working attorneys, dentists, dermatologists, you know.

00:07:10
Speaker 4: So anyways, that's that was.

00:07:12
Speaker 3: Really My initial take was like Dan, basically, I have to audition for my job again.

00:07:17
Speaker 4: I have to start over.

00:07:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how I took it too, And that's facts.

00:07:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I took it that way too.

00:07:24
Speaker 1: And as somebody like you said, who's been a part of the Real Housewives orbit for many many years, doing Atlanta and all black casts with one white woman, Kim Zosiak, and then doing New Jersey with an all white cast, When I saw this announcement, I'm gonna be honest with you, I was taken aback because I think a lot of people who look like you, and I felt that, Okay, does this mean that?

00:07:54
Speaker 2: And I'm going to be very honest.

00:07:56
Speaker 1: I felt that, Wow, did Ebany shake the table so much that she single handedly raised the flag to a show that did not represent the diversity that we all know New York has become. And because people I e the audience have said Ebony ruined the show. Not just white folks, some black folks feel the same way to Ebony. We can't fire Ebony because she is the first black housewife of New York City. So we can't get rid of her because we know that she has no connection to these girls. And anybody who believes you and Leah in real life with be friends needs to go back to grade school.

00:08:41
Speaker 2: But we'll talk about that later as well.

00:08:44
Speaker 1: So instead of causing Black Twitter to set this shit on fire, let's create two separate shows to where we get to keep black folks happy that we're going to create a multi cultural, diverse show, and then we're going to say Ramona's job by making sure the face of New York City now that Bethany is gone.

00:09:07
Speaker 2: We have to say Ramona's job.

00:09:09
Speaker 1: So we're going to create a show to where the white audience who loves New York and loves to see old white women get drunk and have no storyline, We're going.

00:09:22
Speaker 2: To satisfy that audience.

00:09:24
Speaker 1: That's how I took it, and I felt that if it wasn't for Ebony being on the show, this would have never happened.

00:09:32
Speaker 3: Well, Okay, let's start with the last take. Probably probably right. I think that would be disingenuous of me to sit here in conversation with you, Carlos King, and act as if this decision is not the result of getting to a bridge too far to go with myself as the first black woman on the show, and the women who were on the show previously.

00:09:59
Speaker 4: I feel like this is at it.

00:10:00
Speaker 3: I feel I was more than willing the whole season, and after we aired, and after we wrapped, and after the decision to not have a reunion, I was always willing to negotiate with my former castmates about what an ensemble future could look like that included all of us, always right up until the very end.

00:10:24
Speaker 4: They were unwilling, is all I can tell you.

00:10:26
Speaker 3: They were unwilling to come to the table and meet me even halfway in that negotiation. And if you know anything about business, you know anything about the art of the deal, you can't.

00:10:37
Speaker 4: Close that way. You can't close.

00:10:39
Speaker 3: When parties involved in the negotiation are unwilling to give even an inch. So I think that, more than anything, is actually the reason, Carlos, that we are now getting these two shows.

00:10:51
Speaker 4: I think if there was a scenario. This is my.

00:10:54
Speaker 3: Opinion, as Temera Judge would say. I haven't heard this.

00:10:57
Speaker 4: From anybody at the highest levels of executive officer, but this is how I read it.

00:11:02
Speaker 3: If those same former castmates of mine had been willing to enter into the negotiation of co existing and sharing space with myself and additional women outside of their particular New York World and bubble, you would have had a season fourteen that was what everybody anticipated, a proper integration of old School new School.

00:11:25
Speaker 4: Because I do think and.

00:11:26
Speaker 3: I actually agree, I don't know that you would push back on the notion that it's a good thing if you can preserve the nostalgia of a legendary franchise.

00:11:36
Speaker 2: I agree with that.

00:11:37
Speaker 1: What I don't What I don't agree with, though, is well.

00:11:41
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this.

00:11:42
Speaker 1: Outside of Sonya Morgan, did the rest of the cast black value from continuing this conversation of trying to come together and make the show work?

00:11:53
Speaker 2: Were you black bald?

00:11:54
Speaker 4: I was not black bald. Okay, let me let me tell you why.

00:11:57
Speaker 3: I know that for fact, because if I had been black bald, I would not have been on Watch What Happens Live to promote my network television show that I'm currently on right now at CBS Beyond the Edge.

00:12:09
Speaker 1: So I wasn't black not black balled by the network, black bald by the cast? Were you, I'm gonna be real, Were you black balled by Luanne Ramona Leah in terms of not being able to come to the table.

00:12:25
Speaker 4: They were unwilling to.

00:12:26
Speaker 3: Yes, if if you want to call it black bald, I'm not gonna, you know, dispute the semantics of that, Carlos.

00:12:31
Speaker 4: What I am telling you plainly, only Sonya Morgan.

00:12:35
Speaker 3: Was willing to come to the table and negotiate a future that involved me as a part of this ensemble.

00:12:41
Speaker 4: Period dot, period dot, poor child.

00:12:44
Speaker 2: Let me tell y'all something. This is just the beginning.

00:12:48
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more of my conversation with Ebony K.

00:12:53
Speaker 2: Williams.

00:12:54
Speaker 1: Will be right back after some quick ads. This is reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back to my conversation with Ethony K. Williams and why I'm glad she shook the table. Child on the Real Housewives of New York franchise, Bethany Franco is the face of the Real house Watchs of New York City.

00:13:22
Speaker 2: She will never go back. She has made that very clear.

00:13:27
Speaker 1: Ramona was the reason her and Kenya Moore were the reason why Ultimus's Girls Trip was a fun show to watch. Ramona is entertaining to watch without Ramona. I don't think myself and any audience member wants to see Derenda Lumaine, Kelly ben Simone, Jill Zarren and Sonya Morgan have a key key without the Potstar. I believe she will be back. That's my opinion. No one has told me that. I'm just telling you based on my fifteen years in this business. That's how I how I took it. And I'll say this much about you. I appreciate that you shook the table at the show because it needed to be shaken. That show has not had a storyline in years, in years, and I felt that as a viewer, we were robbed of seeing the true essence of what caused the divorce between Ramona and Mario and getting that insight we've never saw it. I was very interested in seeing what happened with Derinda and John and seeing how that relationship became what it became.

00:14:36
Speaker 2: They never have a storyline.

00:14:38
Speaker 1: It truly is sex and the City, and that, to me was the downfall of that franchise. And I appreciated that you came on the show to show a different side of New York City and storytelling when it comes to your search for your father, your identity, the fact that during COVID you broke up with your fia, I say, because the brother wanted to spend time with his children. But as I was watching it, I kept saying to myself, does epane belong on this show?

00:15:10
Speaker 4: Or do they belong on this show?

00:15:12
Speaker 3: And I think that's but I think that's what Bravo ultimately is telling us that they concluded that perhaps the time is up for that energy to be at the forefront of the flags one of the flagship original because I mean, let's just call us Spade of Spadin. I love Potomac. It's Potomac's my favorite franchise. Let me be very clear. But when you talk about the kind of crown jewels that established the global phenomenon of housewives, you're talking about Atlanta, Orange County, and New York to an extent, maybe Beverly.

00:15:47
Speaker 4: Hills, that's what we're talking about.

00:15:49
Speaker 2: I agree with that, right, Okay.

00:15:51
Speaker 3: And then we all love the new iterations of Potomac and Salt Lake City and all that jazz relatively still new though. So when you're talking about out the really reverenced opportunity to be an apple holder on Real Housewives of New York City, there's a requirement there that story transparency, culturally relevant, finger on the pulse, moving the needle, and I to your point, as great as the third I would say about ten of the thirteen.

00:16:23
Speaker 1: Seasons, because it was only good when Bethany was on. And I'm not a Bethany stand but I call, like I said, she was the engine.

00:16:33
Speaker 4: She activated the show. Absolutely.

00:16:34
Speaker 2: Okay, that's a good.

00:16:38
Speaker 4: Absolutely. Now, one thing I do have is a vocabulary now.

00:16:45
Speaker 3: But she absolutely activated the show and she brought out the best of the other women in terms of what they offer. So going back to Bethany and why she's so important and iconic is because she is what you call a force multiplier. I got this term from an NFL coach. A force multiplier is the type of individual you can drop into any scenario and everyone around them comes alive. Everyone around them offers something better, different, stronger, more.

00:17:13
Speaker 1: Wait say that work, because my gay ass, when you say sports I tune out.

00:17:16
Speaker 4: A force multiplier, a force multiplier.

00:17:20
Speaker 1: So, as a reality TV producer, what Ebony is spitting right now is nothing but the facts. But as a gay man, I never called it a force multiplier because I don't know what that means.

00:17:33
Speaker 2: It sounds like a I got it.

00:17:34
Speaker 4: From an NFL coach. Yes, you know, you know I have a resume.

00:17:38
Speaker 3: I have a resume and it includes being also a stint in sports casting. And during my stint in sports casting, I had a prolific head coach of the NFL talk to me about how there's a lot of difference. It's called like a slot receiver. You know, you just plug and play the plug and play types housewives all across the board a peppered with plug and play tips. But the Bethanies, the force multipliers, the I believe.

00:18:06
Speaker 4: Kenya Moore's you better say it.

00:18:09
Speaker 3: I believe you know. I believe Tamra Judge. I believe there are certa Giselle Bryant and carry.

00:18:18
Speaker 2: No one wants to admit that, and no Jiselle, so are.

00:18:22
Speaker 3: Jazelle and I have no personal relationship with Jazelle. I co hosted chat Room one time with the system had it a nice time, but that's it. So this is not that's my girl. I don't know Jazelle from very much, but when it comes to her value on the platform, Gazelle is a force multiplier.

00:18:40
Speaker 4: Everyone around her comes better because of her.

00:18:43
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. You don't, you don't.

00:18:45
Speaker 1: And the thing about this force multiplier, what I always called them was the queen bee and I always got in trouble with that because some women are like, I'm nobody's peasant.

00:18:53
Speaker 2: I'm a queen. We're all queens. I'm a queen.

00:18:56
Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna say force multiplier when I defined the activators on each ensemble, because Ebanie K Williams, first of all, I have to stop and say this.

00:19:08
Speaker 2: I thought I knew you, baby, I did not.

00:19:12
Speaker 3: But what I already know is most people don't really know me, and I don't fault anyone.

00:19:17
Speaker 4: I don't fault the public.

00:19:19
Speaker 3: You know, there was such a limited aspect of who I am demonstrated on season thirteen for a variety of reasons. And so that's another reason why season fourteen is very important to me.

00:19:31
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be rial with you.

00:19:34
Speaker 1: I watch you on season thirteen, right, and I was like, hmm, is she trying too hard to represent the black woman of New York City?

00:19:45
Speaker 2: Or because I'm a producer, is someone.

00:19:47
Speaker 1: Telling her that that's going to be her position? And I thought that the focus was so much on you educating these white women on the black experience. It took away from what I'm watching now because I was like, Ebony's not a great housewife.

00:20:05
Speaker 2: She just isn't.

00:20:06
Speaker 1: And it was no shade to you. It was more so like I know what a housewife brings. A housewife is somebody that has a delusion of grander over the top. I feel horrible for because if I feel this way being the king of reality TV, I now know why other people may have felt this way because I was like, Ebony isn't a good housewife, but she's a great anchor on stuff like the View because I.

00:20:36
Speaker 2: Loved you on the View and we'll.

00:20:37
Speaker 1: Get to that later after Right now, I have the AHA moment because I have now realized and you don't have to confirm or deny this, this.

00:20:47
Speaker 2: Is me saying it.

00:20:49
Speaker 1: I now understand you were put in a box to represent a movement so that other people could say, see, we talked about it and we're on the path and we're a part of the movement.

00:21:08
Speaker 2: So leave us alone. Pr people, leave us alone Black.

00:21:11
Speaker 1: Twitter, instead of saying why can't we represent Ebanye K Williams on this show the way we did with the Guarsell on Beverly Hills.

00:21:23
Speaker 2: And I now realize in this aha.

00:21:25
Speaker 1: Moment, you are never given a fair chance of showing the authenticity of who you are because there was one agenda that was placed on you. And the fuck the part about it is you had the black community, the pressures of the black community, on your shoulders, and that is not fair to a woman who's walking into thirteen years of an established show.

00:21:55
Speaker 2: So I apologize to you.

00:21:57
Speaker 3: No apology needed. I receive everything that you offered with full and open heart. Carlows, And I'll say this, I went on The Breakfast Club shortly after season thirteen started airing, and I was at that point in my I was really hurt by some of the feedback that you echoed from my people, the white feedback. Expect you know, honey, I was in Fox News for five years. I'm very familiar with white angs.

00:22:23
Speaker 2: Yes, you know.

00:22:28
Speaker 3: Familiar, right if you've been around the block, aren't we all. So you know, as I said then and I'll say it again, you know, I have successfully divorced myself from white comfort and concerns of white approval.

00:22:42
Speaker 4: Period died.

00:22:43
Speaker 3: When it comes to relationship and acceptance by my people, my my black community and culture, it's very important to me. You know, I'm having to now as a grown woman who has had a year under her belt and actually a year of a season of a show. But if you talk about time, Carlos, you gotta remember, we were filming that in like September of twenty twenty, so we're coming up on like almost almost two years, you know, come this fall the point of me being in the reality TV universe. So now I'm a little more experienced when it comes to Okay, this is the press aspect, Okay, this is the social media aspect, Okay, this is the filming aspect.

00:23:23
Speaker 4: Okay.

00:23:24
Speaker 3: I'm better able to navigate, so I don't take the shit as personally anymore. So I understand better when I hear black some of black Twitter, because there's also the other contingency. I want to be fair here for sure, a lot of love from black folk all across the globe, absolutely that are like you know what, Sis, I might not have even done it the way you're doing it, but I appreciate the work.

00:23:50
Speaker 4: I see the intention, and I recognize that you're doing what needed to be done.

00:23:55
Speaker 3: You are not making, You're not doing when you say this in the SATH, I'm from the South, Carlos. No cut yeah, no cut cards with these women. You know, I'm not going to go into a room and say, hey, ladies, welcome to dinner. By the way, let's talk about white fragility. But when you show up in a posture of white fragility, you're going to get called up for it.

00:24:13
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

00:24:14
Speaker 3: You're gonna get called up for it. And I say called up instead of called out. That shout out to Queen Monique, the Oscar winning actress Monique.

00:24:20
Speaker 1: When it comes to the real housewats of New York City, obviously you won't be on the legacy version because that's for the ogs. But oh yes, I have to say this. I do believe you will be back. I believe that I'm very spiritual, and my spirit is telling me you will be back. Because the one thing about you, you have a very diversive friend group, and I think you're going to show a side of yourself that me and the audience haven't seen until we saw a glimmer of that when you're Watch What Happens Live? And what was funny about that moment? Ebony? Everybody, not just some I'm gonna say, everybody watched you on the most recent episode of Watch What Happens Live and fell in love with you.

00:25:13
Speaker 4: They did that, and I'm I'm a big age.

00:25:17
Speaker 3: I'm about to be thirty nine this year, but I would be disingenuous.

00:25:20
Speaker 4: I didn't say that.

00:25:21
Speaker 3: Meant something to me, Carlos, because again, I am not so bad ass, tough, veneered that love from my people doesn't count to me. Now you know, I'm not gonna get love about all the people, and that's okay. But but what's important to me, and I'm so glad we're having this conversation on your platform. I've had this conversation. We're not this because you can't duplicate this, but but I've spoken to this issue.

00:25:43
Speaker 4: Let me say at that way.

00:25:44
Speaker 3: I've spoken to the issue on other platforms, but none with the impact and reach of what this conversation is going to offer the culture, and so my people in my community Carlos understanding the purity of my intention. Tension was never to ruin your entertainment value of Ronie. It was never to make the show about me. Actually, I'm going to tell you this because I don't produce reality TV, but I do produce content executive produce. Actually, okay, And one thing about it is as a new, first year talent on an ensemble, I don't think it really should be centered around that individual because I think that when you talk about, especially an audience who is so in love with the nostalgia of a thirteen year franchise like Ronie, it could kind of the power dynamic of that can be uncomfortable for the audience. So it's like if I'm tuning in year thirteen for Ramona, so that energy, But you're giving me seventeen episodes that are predominantly featured around this brand new woman who I'm not in a relationship with yet because I'm just meeting her.

00:26:53
Speaker 4: For the first time.

00:26:55
Speaker 3: And the central conflict is around, as the always calls it, the you know, the color line is the problem of our century, and as we go into the twenty first century, it still is, you know, So you're making it about the tensions of race in America. What did we think was going to happen? What did we think was going to happen? And like you said, Carlos, it wasn't as if I didn't totally open my entire life up for the first time in front of those cameras. And you know, anybody from production will tell you that it was nothing was no stone left unturned understanding my you know, search for my father. That was not an easy thing to deal with with my mother, truth be told, you know, I dealt with that. I dealt with the personal ramifications of that choice to do it on that platform. Why, because so many black girls and boys are stigmatized by the fact that they are fatherless in this country.

00:27:52
Speaker 2: Okay, And as.

00:27:53
Speaker 3: Somebody who some look at as aspirational, successful, a bit the American dream, a bit of our ancestor dream, I feel privileged in my position to destigmatize that, To destigmatize is nothing wrong with you just because he chose not to be around or you don't know and you have no relationship with him.

00:28:15
Speaker 4: So that was the point of that.

00:28:17
Speaker 3: Nobody made space for that, really, Carlos, because they were too preoccupied in and out of the culture with the conflict, the racial conflict that was existing between myself and the veteran cast members.

00:28:29
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's my take. No, and your take is my take. And that's why I stopped watching the show.

00:28:34
Speaker 4: Me too, Me too. I stopped after on Black Chabbat, Oh my God.

00:28:39
Speaker 3: To this day, Carlos King, this is an exclusive to this day, I have never seen any episode past Black Shabak.

00:28:44
Speaker 2: Wow, I echoed that same sentiment.

00:28:47
Speaker 1: Listen, I watch reality TV, and I produce reality TV so that people within forty two minutes can just have fun and see the relatability of what.

00:28:59
Speaker 2: People are going through. Right.

00:29:01
Speaker 1: I watched the View every day, and when I watched the View, I learned about politics, policy, world events, and I get that in a way where I'm entertained by it. But at the same time, I purposely am watching the View to understand the world. I don't watch the View to hear Sonny Hoston talk about her chickens or her farm, or.

00:29:25
Speaker 2: To hear Joy Behart and Steve because I don't care.

00:29:28
Speaker 1: I care about what you guys think about this war in Russia, and I care about what you think about world events.

00:29:35
Speaker 2: Right. So that's why for the longest time.

00:29:37
Speaker 1: I kept saying to myself, Ebany belongs on the view because when you speak, you hold the captive audience.

00:29:44
Speaker 2: And when you were under view the first.

00:29:46
Speaker 1: Time, yes, honey, because it takes a lot to get on the second time. When you were under view the first time, I tweeted and said, Wow, this is what she is meant to do with her life.

00:29:59
Speaker 2: This is her calling.

00:30:01
Speaker 1: Do you feel that your calling is to be on reality TV or to hold a seat, even if it's not the view, but to.

00:30:10
Speaker 2: Have a platform, a talk platform.

00:30:13
Speaker 1: Where you're able to discuss important matters of the world.

00:30:18
Speaker 3: My answer to that question is yes. The answer is yes, Carlos to both. Here's why I feel going back to God called that's that's you know, when you're from where we're from, called is a very particular thing.

00:30:35
Speaker 4: One is called to the pullpit, just as.

00:30:38
Speaker 3: We have been called to occupy the seats that we occupy in this business. And it's and we are doing the work of the culture in it. I know what I've already gone through in my career just to get to like, it's not an accident. When you're the first black woman they choose to put on the platform for what I now can say retroactively was a demolition of sorts.

00:31:01
Speaker 2: Right.

00:31:02
Speaker 4: One of my favorite shows is with Chip and Joanna. Oh yeah, so you know what Chip's.

00:31:07
Speaker 3: Favorite day is of the of the arc of the episode demolition day. Yes, because before you can restructure the home of one's dreams, sometimes it's not enough to just move the furniture. Sometime you must demo the whole fucking thing and start over.

00:31:28
Speaker 1: Come on, Pastor Williams. So this is my prediction, and I want to hear your thoughts on it. I believe the reboot of Real housewatchs of New York City with the new cast, I'm going on record saying it's going to be you and other women. I believe that that show will go on Peacock, and I believe the legacy show with the Ogs would be on Bravo.

00:31:56
Speaker 2: And this is the reason why I'm saying that.

00:31:59
Speaker 1: I believe, based on the fact that the ratings for this past season of New York City wasn't the greatest, that Bravo is not going to take a chance of putting on the linear network a brand new cast hoping to captivate that same audience. So my belief just like what they did with Miami Housewives, which to me was a smart play. In Miami Housewives is tense across the board, fabulous show.

00:32:30
Speaker 4: Everyone loves.

00:32:32
Speaker 1: It's fantastic, I believe because they want to make sure the ratings are great. I believe the New York City Housewives Legacy or the ogs would be on Bravo, and I believe this new iteration i e.

00:32:48
Speaker 2: Reboots would be on.

00:32:49
Speaker 1: Peacock because what they have shown on Peacock is since Miami Housewives had some new faces, some familiar faces, the show still working was a hit, and I believe they would do that.

00:33:01
Speaker 2: With this reboot. Do you agree or disagree with me?

00:33:05
Speaker 4: Okay, I disagree.

00:33:07
Speaker 3: I'm gonna tell you why I'm with you until we start talking about the ratings discrepancy. Because if you go like the ratings were the worst they've ever been Season thirteen, undisputed. But when you look at the numbers, and I'm you know, I'm a lawyer, I'm a fact based girl. When you look at the numbers, we were around averaging. I think I might be off here a little bit precision wise, but it was around eight twenty ish. Okay, they weren't marginally better season twelve. The reality is is the ratings of Ronie, along with a lot of the again older veteran shows.

00:33:45
Speaker 4: Have been going down. True so they were before season thirteen.

00:33:50
Speaker 3: The record low for Ronie ratings was guess what, season twelve, which was the you know also Legacy. That season had Ramona Duran Luan Sonia Tensley. So I don't know that my logic follows, okay that Bravo would assume that just because we put the old gang back together again that that means ratings goal because it didn't mean ratings golden season twelve.

00:34:16
Speaker 4: It just didn't mean that.

00:34:18
Speaker 3: I concur that the new iteration, the reboot, whoever's on it is high risk.

00:34:23
Speaker 4: We don't know who's going to watch that show.

00:34:25
Speaker 3: But I would offer you this, Carlos King, this is my business mind, taking my personal investment in, you know, wanting to be able to be apart. I a for the first time, and I'm going to tell you this season thirteen because somebody asked me this, did I want to.

00:34:38
Speaker 4: Be a housewife?

00:34:40
Speaker 3: I don't know that I really gave a damn about being a housewife, as much as I gave a whole lot of damns about being a important representation of black womanhood on a global iconic platform. That's what I wanted for season thirteen.

00:34:54
Speaker 4: Now a bitch is.

00:34:55
Speaker 3: Old, outside is open. I want to be a housewife. I can tell you that truth.

00:35:00
Speaker 2: I love you honesty.

00:35:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to be a housewife. Now.

00:35:05
Speaker 3: I'm kind of bought into the whimsicalness of that part of it now in a way that not to say.

00:35:12
Speaker 4: That my job here is done.

00:35:14
Speaker 3: You know, I represented the great black woman and now that part's over. I'm always going to be a great Black woman. That's who I am. That's what I'm called to do, honey, in all spaces.

00:35:23
Speaker 2: Amen.

00:35:23
Speaker 4: However, however, again, I want to have fun. I want to. I mean, I just want to. I want to look and I did give looks since season thirteen.

00:35:31
Speaker 1: All the Gucci dapper Don jacket. Mama, you were your confessionals, work.

00:35:36
Speaker 4: Work, Okay.

00:35:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's not like I didn't have some of those aspects already on lock. But you're gonna get even much more of that. In another iteration of me and my crew, You're going to see my world. That's what season fourteen. If I am invited to that reboot would look like and I think this is important to Carlos just to this point we'll move on.

00:35:57
Speaker 4: Is that, oh business.

00:36:00
Speaker 3: Argument, If you are a Ronie watcher and you watch Ronie for the nostalgia of the ogs, likely you're gonna watch the reboot regardless of where it lives.

00:36:12
Speaker 4: I think, okay, right, right right.

00:36:16
Speaker 3: And if you're that person that's like, oh, I hate having a name, you're not gonna watch. That mindset is not watching a diverse reboot of Roney no matter who's on it, no matter who's on it, because they are not interested in that new New York. They're interested in the old guard, stuffy, particularly white version of New York.

00:36:38
Speaker 4: So that's like a zero to me.

00:36:41
Speaker 3: So then you've got the other viewer who likes the nostalgia, but it's like, that's not New York, you know, And that person is likely already in a relationship with me, probably had appreciation. They would be in that course of people, Carlos that had appreciation for me, the glipse of me they saw, the more or of me they saw and watch what Happens live. So if I'm you know, making sense of all of this, why wouldn't I continue the relationship that's already been established and consider building a fuller cast around a woman who's clearly at the center of media elite New York, of cultural integration and intersection, and is on the cusp of making massive life decisions concerning baby, man and money.

00:37:31
Speaker 4: It just makes sense to me.

00:37:32
Speaker 1: No, And that's I agree, one hundred percent. And that's the reason why I said you will be back, because at the end of the day, no, and listen.

00:37:40
Speaker 2: I create shows for a living.

00:37:43
Speaker 1: I for example, Love and Marriage DC is a new franchise from my highly successful Love and Marriage Huntsville. I knew if I was going to give the audience a brand new franchise, give them a familiar face.

00:37:59
Speaker 2: That's that's why I'm saying to you.

00:38:02
Speaker 1: If you're going to give me a brand new New York, you're going to give me a familiar face. And you are that familiar face. And I do believe you will get that. But let me ask you this. Have you submitted friends yet to them?

00:38:16
Speaker 4: We are you know? I can't.

00:38:18
Speaker 3: I can't tell you everything, Carl, but I will tell you only because Andy, you know, acts to me, you know, kind of smartly and understandably made a open plea to say, basically, any woman in New York, if you think that you have the curated cast of women that we want, this is represents your friend group.

00:38:39
Speaker 4: Come one, Come on. It was an alta call.

00:38:41
Speaker 3: Basically, we want to go back to that Andy. Andy did a full on altar call on you better believe.

00:38:47
Speaker 4: You better believe because I work. Yes, I am over here as we speak in and I'm in work mode.

00:38:55
Speaker 3: I am going through my actual to and I'm not going through Instagram. I'll tell you this part of my curation because Instagram is that's you know, that's one hundreds of women.

00:39:03
Speaker 4: I'm going through my text messages.

00:39:05
Speaker 3: I'm going through women because I actually am I keep a tight circle. I have lots of women I know in New York, lots of women. I appreciate New York carlows. But when it comes to you know who I'm actually gonna put a bra on for and go out my house with by choice, with no check attached.

00:39:23
Speaker 4: That's a small group of women. They just happen to be fantastic.

00:39:27
Speaker 3: Like obviously you saw the dinner, you know, the dinner with Bevy. You know when Bevy Smith calls, you go I didn't ask no questions. I didn't ask who's gonna be there? Doesn't it's Bevy's dinner, So you already know. The guest list is on lock. So that represents, you know, the social dynamics in which I am blessed to be a part of.

00:39:48
Speaker 2: Would you want but Shan back on the show? Listen?

00:39:50
Speaker 4: I you know, no cut cards.

00:39:53
Speaker 3: I don't personally have a relationship with Burshawn Shaw. But as I've said before and I'll say it again, I think Shaw is a woman who has a lot to offer. I actually interviewed Brehon in my capacity as a journalist for own like back when her previous reality show.

00:40:10
Speaker 4: Was on air, Love in the City.

00:40:11
Speaker 2: I believe correct.

00:40:13
Speaker 4: So I I have no wish but positive.

00:40:17
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I told brashon the last time we had any direct communication, which was a long time ago. I wish Byshon first and foremost health, prosperity, and happiness. And if that for her is this platform, godspeed.

00:40:33
Speaker 2: You two are friends though no, we've.

00:40:35
Speaker 3: Never and we've never been friends. That's the thing. So it's not messy. It's not it's not that we were we were cast.

00:40:43
Speaker 4: The cat's out the bag.

00:40:44
Speaker 2: Now you know weren't friends? You and Leah were were not And.

00:40:51
Speaker 4: Guess who else was a friends where Shan and Ramona were not friend?

00:40:53
Speaker 1: I know that girl, okay, And I know ban and and and I know the game I try, I see.

00:41:01
Speaker 2: I saw all of that as a way.

00:41:02
Speaker 4: But that's why that didn't work.

00:41:04
Speaker 3: But you know what I mean that that whole like, we're going to take this cast from season twelve and we're gonna identify two exception and I'll give absolutely not even having to be friends with the Brashon is an exceptional black woman.

00:41:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course absolutely.

00:41:17
Speaker 3: So what they did was they identified two exceptional black women, which don't get me started. You know, this is the narrative that happens in America where black women have to be what what are we seeing with the Supreme Court have to be?

00:41:27
Speaker 2: What?

00:41:27
Speaker 4: Overqualified the two.

00:41:29
Speaker 3: Most educated people all that appeared on your screens last season for Real Housewives of New York for myself with a doctorate and Brayshawn with her master's degree from Syracuse. Baby don't play with us, Okay, So when it comes to credential and qualifications, we were overqualified to be amongst those particular women.

00:41:46
Speaker 2: I could not agree more, you know.

00:41:48
Speaker 3: And that's why it was a lot of tension and power dynamics, you know. And Brashana and I did when we were filming have this conversation which is like, it's rather odd that we are kind of being asked to a little bit kiss the ring and you know, kind of sing for our supper and be invited apart.

00:42:09
Speaker 4: Bitch, you know, are you kidding me?

00:42:11
Speaker 3: When from our respective worlds because Breshonna and I don't really necessarily.

00:42:16
Speaker 1: Social or you you two are from two different generations total, to.

00:42:21
Speaker 3: Two different generations and two different social service. Absolutely, there's some over there's some overlap, but but.

00:42:26
Speaker 1: Different because the Black community in New York City is is kind of small, so I can see the overlap. But and I'm saying there's no I know, but I've no but Sean for a few years. And I know you've heard it. See Obviously, Dustin Ross is a friend of mine, you know what I mean. And so many people love you, so you know.

00:42:41
Speaker 4: We live in different worlds. We live in different.

00:42:43
Speaker 2: Worlds, way different worlds.

00:42:45
Speaker 3: However, as different as our worlds are, the thing that our worlds share is an appreciation for certain what I call Carlos cultural currencies, societal currencies by way of aesthetic education, class and demeanor.

00:43:03
Speaker 4: You know, like there's a so you know, and that's really what.

00:43:05
Speaker 3: Housewives is supposed to be about. I don't have to tell you you grated the blueprint. It really should be an interesting observation of the interplay of women, all kind of clamoring slash negotiating. Whose social order matters most, Who's the prettiest, the richest, the you know, best husband, cutest, fucking kids, kids doing the best in school, that kind of shit.

00:43:29
Speaker 2: I just had a.

00:43:31
Speaker 1: Let's go and guess what my production company should should produce the reboot of Real Housewives in New York City because you need somebody who understands the assignment. Who made Atlanta Housewives the jugger not that it is? And I know how to produce a diverse cast. I did Jersey, I did Atlanta.

00:43:55
Speaker 4: Will you worked with Dorothy on Jersey?

00:43:57
Speaker 2: Did you work with oh? W came after me?

00:44:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did the first two seasons of Jersey, which are the best, so I'm saying.

00:44:07
Speaker 4: But certainly iconic. Yeah, I mean, I concur.

00:44:10
Speaker 1: I'm saying because the production company who produces Real House was New York City. They've been producing that show since season one, and I feel like they understand the old guard of that show and for this let, for this new iteration of New York City, you need somebody younger, fresher, and who's able to work with Ebany K. Williams and her friends to really make that show pop. So I think you and I together will make a great team. And I'm putting my bid in. I Carlos King, would love to produce Real House Spots in New York City reboot. And I never thought about that until now, untilment, until this very moment. So when people ask me to go back to Atlanta Housewives, and I said, all the time, I've done it, I excelled.

00:44:58
Speaker 2: I left on a high. I'm good in the hood.

00:45:01
Speaker 1: But if you want my company to produce it, we can have a conversation. Because you never turned down a meeting. I am now on record art I left the Housewice franchise six years ago. I am going on record saying I would love to produce the reboot of New York City.

00:45:20
Speaker 4: Well, I you know I can't say anything on record about that.

00:45:24
Speaker 3: However, I can say this what I think will be required of the production of the new reboot, whoever they decide to go with, is a visceral, organic understanding of the full value socially and culturally of the women on the show.

00:45:47
Speaker 4: And that takes You can't teach that now you have.

00:45:50
Speaker 3: That's a particular lived experience, Carlos king right, that understands innately when a Candy Carter walks in the room, what that means. When it Desiree Rogers walks in a room, what does that mean? Certain women in the Latina community when they walk in a room, what does it mean if.

00:46:07
Speaker 4: It's Andrew Martinez, if it's this woman from Washington. You see what I'm saying.

00:46:11
Speaker 3: I know what you're understand the full scope of basically who.

00:46:16
Speaker 4: The fuck that is.

00:46:18
Speaker 3: And that's going back to season thirteen. That was part of the problem.

00:46:21
Speaker 4: And see this is you talk about, you know, delusions of grandeur.

00:46:24
Speaker 3: Not delusions, just I know who I am, and I know.

00:46:28
Speaker 4: Whose I am.

00:46:29
Speaker 3: And part of the problem with my castmates they never knew who I was, Carlos.

00:46:33
Speaker 2: But they know now.

00:46:34
Speaker 1: So for this new reboot, because I'm like I said, you're going to be on it, I would love to see your mom.

00:46:40
Speaker 2: Are you dating anybody?

00:46:42
Speaker 1: Because I want to see you with the man, Honey, I want to see you with the man dating or are you in a relationship?

00:46:46
Speaker 3: Okay, I am currently actively dating in New York. I actually hired a matchmaker, which is something that I would love to really talk to women about, especially Black women and women of color. I have now hired some one affirm to support my journey to love and marriage and it's a very interesting process that I knew nothing about before this experience. It was quite a pretty penny, but it has it's been worth it for me.

00:47:16
Speaker 1: So I hope you guys loved the conversation that I had with Ebony K Williams as much as I did, because look, your boy went in to this interview thinking one thing, and I left this conversation having a new found love, admiration, and respect for Ebanie. I must say I really did. And the beauty of our conversation is the fact that I now believe she really would make a great reality star.

00:47:52
Speaker 2: Ain't that something?

00:47:55
Speaker 1: But look, that's why it's important for me to have these conversations on my podcast because I believe and know that the conversations that I'm having with the reality stars and reality star lovers is an opportunity for all of us to get to know these women and these men on a level that we.

00:48:19
Speaker 2: Once never understood.

00:48:21
Speaker 1: And this conversation that I just had with Ebanie K Williams, I literally had what Oprah Winfrey calls a AHA moment, and I realized how she was never given a fair chance to be a housewife because of this unspoken agenda that was placed on her.

00:48:42
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:48:43
Speaker 1: I mean, look, honestly, y'all, I'm still in awe of that conversation. And trust me when I say this will not be the last we see of Ebony a reality TV and specifically on the Real Housewives friend cous In my opinion, I think Bravo would be at a loss if they did not bring Ebony back to the reboot of The Real Housewats of New York City, because I definitely think there's more to her that we haven't seen yet. Make sure you watch her on CBS's Beyond the Edge and follow her on Instagram and Twitter at Ebony K Williams. If you have a question for me or any of your favorite reality TV personalities like Ebony, leave a voicemail at three one oh five ninety three eight one eight eight and I just might play it.

00:49:41
Speaker 2: On the show.

00:49:42
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Reality with the King. New episodes drop every Wednesday and Friday, Share, comment, follow, and subscribe to Reality with the King Wherever you get your podcast, visit Realitywitheking dot com and be sure to follow me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram and Twitter.

00:50:03
Speaker 2: Tweet me your.

00:50:04
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00:50:09
Speaker 2: Reality with the King.

00:50:13
Speaker 1: Reality with the King is a production of More Sauce by Stitcher. It is executive produced by Me, Carlos King, and Jasmine Henley Brown. We are also produced by Sierra Spragley, Rix Engineering and music by Marcus Ham More Sauce