James Weighs In on Romances and Bromances in ‘Paradise’

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Speaker 1: Welcome back Bachelor Happy Hour listeners. And I am dying laughing right now because I know you can't see us, you can only hear us. But Tia and I were feeling very nostalgic this morning, and we figured why not bust out our prom dresses and are all of the accessories that we had for what you sago down last night. So Tia, can you please describe to me what you are wearing right now? So imagine ladybug meets eighties meets shoulder poof. I mean, it's only you could feel how ishy this is. I have some red lace, Madonna gloves, good sad pony. You are looking you like. I know that we filmed Paradise and Prom several months ago, but you look like you just stepped off that dance floor. I'm telling you, guys, what thank you? Your outfit I'm wearing like, um, it kind of looks like wallpaper up close, a little iridescent, like eighties bride like or eighteen year old loses her virginity at the prom. We've got the pink velvet scrunch you can't see them, but we got some nice big pink ball earrings on. UM. I do have to admit though, I A, I'm shocked that we were able to get these dresses back home after Paradise because we only had two suitcases and they yours, yours literally took up I think you had to buy a third suitcase just to get through airport security with that. I'm surprised you didn't just wear it on the plane, like that's what you should have done. Save some money with that third that third suitcase. But uh, we are ready to do today's podcast in style, and you know, I don't think I'm going to be able to get the stress off of maybecause it's very tight, so I might just be lived in it for a while to get off the last really concerned you will also ripped. You also ripped your dress out because you were dancing so hard you busted the whole shoulder sleeve much did it still is busted. We didn't have to keep it up throw it. There's so many layers of tool there that it just stays when you pop it up. You don't even need a safety pin. But enough about our incredible attire, I mean Checo Bachelor happy Hours Instagram because we have a full reels tutorial of us getting ready back in the eighties mindset, and I have to say, this was just for me personally, one of my most fun favorite episodes to watch, just because like reliving that moment, reliving the dancing, and of course some of the drama, but just like, do you remember the excitement that we had that day when we walked in the whole day? The fuck are you talking about? It's true. I remember my excitement when when I walked into the Rose Palapa and it was eighties themed prom I it was like I was born for the moment. Okay, And we will get into more of the detail of that night, but at least impression. It didn't at the very end of the episode, but it made a last to you and problem is always memorable, but this one was one for the books, I have to say. But let's start at the top of the episode, because last week it was a two week continued and it was all of the drama surrounding Ivan and Aaron and Chelsea and this somewhat love triangle going on. So obviously it picks up back into that Aaron and Ivan are going at it. There are so much that was said between those two and just between everyone regarding that situation. On the beach, I think a standout moment of everything, not only between just what you saw, but I think one of the main things was like people saw Riley get really heated, and like even I was heated. There were people on that beach at learning Rachel, like people were mad for different reasons. Like there was just so much tension going on. Obviously you see Aaron get mad because he was well he says, he was into Chelsea. We'll get into that, he says, he says, but um, I know people are probably gonna say, like that Ivan looked so terrible. Here's the thing, when all of that was going on, we only heard one side of the story. All we heard was that Chelsea pulled Ivan, Aaron saw Ivan and Chelsea talking and making out, and then we just saw Aaron get furious. And from a bystander, I mean you were there too, Tia, which you can attest to, like Aaron was extremely heated to the point where everyone was like what the hell, like why the whole time? Hm, But always just like after the fact and kind of like macho man, staken up for myself, and it felt like it wasn't ever really about the girl. It was always just about his competition. Right with the guys, it was kind of a zar. It was more about losing. I think another point to that when we all sound this out rubbed us all the wrong way because a lot of us, like no Ivan as this kind, soft spoken, patient man, and we didn't expect him. I think too, I would say lie or spin the story in his favor where he said that Chelsea pulled him. Did he actually say that Chelsea pulled him or that Chelsea wanted to talk, because, in his defense, he did ask her to go talk and she agreed. So if he if he was saying, yeah, Chelsea wanted to talk to me, he was just kind of leaving out the beginning part that he talked to her first. But did he actually say Chelsea pulled him to talk? I don't know. I said it, okay, Chelsea pulled me. Okay, So that was a lie. My thing, though, is I know it's easy to get wrapped up in the nitty gurdy and the little details and that he said he said type thing. It's like, at the end of the day, who really cares who pulled who? The fact of the matter is, these two consenting adult went to go talk. They both made out and Aaron saw it, and then Chelsea also decided to go and live her best betchelor at life, which she should have, and talk to Aaron and kissing him. Like that's what it is like to me, It doesn't matter who pulled two, and like that type of thing is so just unnecessary. Did the same thing with Tamy and Thomas though, too right, And so we're seeing a theme here. So yeah, and like you could only act half interested in someone so much and then like you can't be surprised when they wanted to talk to someone else. That happens. That happens. We go into the Rose ceremony, and this was probably the longest Row ceremony we've ever had to stand through because that conversation between Ivan and Walls, it looks like it was what maybe five minutes, It took took close to an hour. So we're all just standing there talking. We're so tired and like swaying and just it was a line I'll take a screench out of your face where you're just like, what the fuck is going on? Oh my gosh, so tired, so late. It's just it was hot. It was a lot, and so I think at that point, everyone was like, everyone was more kissed that I've just made this decision that we all had to stand through and deal with than like what actually happened the night before, which basically to this day, we still don't quite know exactly how I've been found Alex's room, but when we were all in lockdown during the storm in our separate rooms, I've apparently stuck out found her number from a producer's phone which was left there. But in his defense, because I think we all for the most print, I don't want to speak for the group, but I will say a lot of us were excited, like we said last week, to have these comfortable, big beds, have air conditioning, be able to shower, get ready to our hair, like we were just all ready to go to bed so early because we never sleep on that beach. And so the fact that Ivan was in the mindset where I think he thought, Okay, this is probably my last night. I don't have a strong connection, let's just Kendle left. Kendall left, He's like, I think his mindset was, let's just go balls to the walls, all out, do whatever we can if there's one person left here. That I was excited to meet and I now know her room number? Why not? So I know he went around the system and broke the rules. I understand though, where he was coming from and the mentality behind it. The issue and the part where he really fucked up though in that is that he a led to everyone the next day, obviously especially to Chelsea, and it was at her expense. And I think the part where he went so wrong where I felt for Chelsea in that moment was where after he confronted everyone, after Walls pulled him aside and he was like, Chelsea, I'm sorry. If you would have given me the rose, I would have turned it down. That should have been said well before the audacity. That was bullshit. That is where I sentiment like, how dare you think that I was going to give you a rose? One? And then say you're going to turn me down? Like yeah, I think it less that part out and I think at that point Ivan was like, I've burned all my burdches, like they're truly Chelsea was his maybe last string of hope, like the last little shred to potentially get a Rosen to stay. And with his confession of sneaking out and going to see Alexa he obviously burned to that, and alexas the one who told producers because she felt bad and didn't want to go down to the beach. No I think people heard them talking. Oh, and I will say to the record, I will say this too. None of us had a clue, We had no idea. We were trying to get it out of Noah because Noah shared a room with him. But I want to touch on the fact that I know people probably think he snuck out and they cooked up. He even said, and I don't think they included this part when he was addressing us, but he even said, this has nothing to do with Alexa. She has no part of this. She is innocent. This was me as a man, sneaking out and making this decision, going to talk to her son. She had no clue what was going on, right exactly, cutie ave and at her door, she's lackable. Damn. She's like, is this part of the show? Did the producers come here? Yeah? Exactly. So I want to make that very clear. So I'm sure there's gonna be trolls out there on social media who will come at her, and she is innocent in all of this. Leave her up and She also made the decision not to go down to the beach because she felt so uncomfortable after I guess after she found out like it was not supposed to happen that way, that that was against the rules, right. I really felt for her because she kind of missed out on her opportunity too, And she'd been in quarantine for weeks. She had been waiting to come four weeks. And oh, it's gotta suck. But I mean, you see, Ivan removed himself. He leaves, and again I think sadly was at Chelsea's expense, and she was kind of put in this position. I mean, I don't know where I don't know. Had he not confronted everyone and told everyone what he chose to do, I don't know where her Rose would have gone. Like, I don't think she was made up. She was. She kept talking to us. She was torn between the two guys. She was still moments before we all lined up at that Rose Sumare and he still moments before she was torn of like trying to get the full details of the story of the argument between him, between Aaron and Ivan, and so, oh, I mean, you see it, I'll play out. She gives Aaron the rose, so he sticks around. We see sadly damar doctor Joe go home. Who else went home? Oh Blake? Who's Blake? Blake was pretty easy? Yeah, it like Blake was also so confused. I remember before he left, he was just like a deer in headlights of like, oh, I'm really going home to give the rose to James. It's like yeah, because you just gasolt the shit out of her the entire night and that conversation. Yeah, like hello, knock knock, where you present any of it? Um uh? Yeah. So those fellas go home and we see a couple new arrivals the next day, which I think was interesting for all of us because it's down to the wire. There's only a couple of days left, and so to see Anna and McKenna walk in the next day, we were like, Okay, such a chill day, too, chill day, and we're like, in the game, gotta gotta work work those moves fast to see what happens. Yeah. I know that it had to have been tough for you to see James go on the date with Anna. Obviously you were struggling a little bit that whole day, just because I don't think I mean and you can chime in here. I don't think you knew like James wasn't for you. I think you knew that, but also you kind of were like everyone's already coupled up, like he was the one connection that I could have potentially had here, you know, promise about to happen, Like that's I think where I don't think you were like all in, I'm like, this is my guy. But I think it was just like the situation in general. Yeah, of course, it's always a little punch in the gut to see the person that you just gave your rose to go out with someone else. But I truly was happy for him. But there was a moment where I actually said, I hope he's open to exploring options because he deserves that. When I gave in my rose, I said, you deserve to be here, do because I knew that more girls were going to come in the next day. But yeah, of course, it always sucks to feel like you wanted something to be there and it just wasn't, and then you're just kind of left like, well, here we are, here we are I will say, though, And I just want all of our listeners to know this about you, because I've known you now for years. You are one of the most selfless people that I've ever met. You. Like, even though it was tough for you, you did say multiple times and in many different words and forms and phrases that like, you wanted James to be happy, You wanted him to find such a good girl because he was such a good man. Yeah. If if he was an asshole, it would have made it a whole lot, like a good ridd you can have the next person. But he is such a nice, great guy, and that made it so so hard. Like the only tims I was emotional was when I was bummed about not giving somebody a rose and thinking about someone getting hurt, and then when I was just ready to go home. But yeah, he's such a nice guy and he truly truly deserved to go on that date and to have his first date in the franchise, right, Yeah, his first one on one ever. Yeah, And he was that he was the last guy on the beach, the last I would say, person to get to get a one on one. And so I mean, listen, he's been here. I don't know how James keeps sneaking through BA by week. If James and Aaron both we were well. At one point we were like they should just give each other here roses because they we spend all of their time together, the strongest relationship in Paradise. They really were there so much, like everyone was talking about it at one point they're like, James and Aaron are just like even Wells. Wells was like, how the hell are you two still? And they didn't like towards it. They truly really didn't care to talk to any of the women at all. They only worked together eating two of the things. People were like, why wasn't it there? What was going on? I'm like, you didn't see this. But they really didn't talk to the girls a whole lot. They were with each other all the time, all the time, all the time. It was a running joke for the last couple of weeks there because it's like anytime someone's like where's James, We're like, oh, he's probably with Aaron and vice versa. So yeah, but he did have a great day with Anna, a very random, interesting day with the human made uros and the snakes. I would not have mind the snakes put the sugar in the cinnamon. Would have pissed me off. Having it all for my body. And then at one point, Anna's on her stomach, He's giving her a massage and her forehead is basically going in to the cinnamon and sugar, and I'm like, oh, fuck, no h If that gets in my eyeball or like up my nose, I would have been so pissed. The one thing too, that I kept thinking about and I'm like, oh, like, why is this where my mind goes is I'm thinking, I hope that the show gave them the white swimsuits because if that was my own, I would have been pissed if I've ruined my own swimsuit on this date. That's all I was thinking about the entire time. We will ask James, we will have him clarify it goes his own or not. But okay, well yeah, so Anna and James corner date. Then mc kind of comes in. Now McKenna we saw earlier in the season she went back and had to wait in quarantine for a couple more weeks until she came down onto that beach the last week. But she shows up. She pulls a lot of men that day to talk to them, and honestly, I think most were are I mean most of them were in a relationship and said, if you were to ask me, I would turn you down and just say no to anyone. It didn't even have to be McKenna. I'm sure it would have been anyone, but yeah, because Anna asked to Anna straight up asked a few people what they would say, yes, and they said no, couldn't. So I think the interesting thing is watching her conversation between McKenna and Aaron. He he seemed invested, he seemed excited, which I think got her hopes up. Obviously very intrigued with him. She was k a vague. She was all in to pull him on this date. And she asks Aaron and he goes, yeah, but let's go talk, which makes sense. Heem like, yes, let's go on that. Yeah yeah, which if I was McKenna, i'd be like, okay, he said yes, state, but like, let's just go talk really quick. I'm sure he just wants to explain something whatever it might be. Right, you see them go chat and then he basically turns her down. But all of the reasons for turning her down. I had nothing to do with Chelsea, nothing to do with Chelsea, and she noticed that immediately. Yeah, he addressed the whole group and didn't say anything about I want to explore my relationship with Chelsea. So that's why I'm not, which is like, why dude, were you so mad tonight before literally about to fight someone over Chelsea because you needed a rose and now you don't give a shit like it was because they're stressed out because he follows someone. It's because he was sad. James was already gone on a date, like, let's be honest, but so Ed and to the rescue. I know you don't see a ton of Ed, and you didn't on Claire's season, but Ed is a sweetheart. And that moment where I know it was hard because as a friend for Natasha, I felt for her, but that was his decision, that was his impassion on his own to go check on her, and it actually was very sweet. Who said Chivalrie was dead? He made And what I like to though, is he wasn't like forcing her in like a super super romantic way. He's just like, listen, either you're going to go home tonight or tomorrow, just have some fun, have one day with me. If you hate it, I'm sorry, Like at least we'll make it fun. You don't need to like me, but we'll have a good time. Like I liked that mentality of like no pressure, which I think sometimes makes the best dates. And turns out they had a great date. They roller bladed all around to the hotel, but they had fun and I think it's just what they both needed. And I mean, we see them share a nice kiss. He asked her to prom the next day, right and right. Yeah, so it was like you reminds me of like puppy love, you know, like crushing a little bit, not all invested, but it was just carefree. I'm glad the panic that he's thirty seven, I know, which I mean everyone's talking about the age difference, Like you don't really notice when you're there exactly what it is exactly. So yeah, they they had a good one. So we go into the next day. Obviously we touched on from a little bit. Such a fun time there. It was so random And did you did you going into that night have any idea that Aaron would pull you and that it would lead to this steamy kiss. No clue. I was just as shocked as everyone else. I remember at one point, I obviously couldn't find you, and I will say this. Everyone was trying to do a great job of including you and like trying to know I dance with us like me and Thomas. I felt like we had a little like a squad trio all night because we were just dancing like we would the middle of the slow song. It wasn't a fun song. When we walked in where everyone could dance, it was immediately a slow song and I was I was like seventh willing and just watching everybody else dance, and of course they included me in their slow dance and I was just losing my mind and was like this is like there's no place to sit. I can't even sit down. Everyone did make me feel very very included, which was nice. I did end up having a good time, but at one point I was like, where hell's Tia. She's been gone awhile. So I asked one of our producer friends. I was like, where's Tia And she told me you were with Aaron and she's like, yeah, the hitting it off, and I think, no offense. But I think I burst out laughing because I was like, ha what, Like there's no way that's gonna be anything, and she's like, no, TIA's really happy, and I looked at her like, okay, okay, it was come to me tomorrow. And then I started to panic. I was like, this is not the place I want to be right now. I'm not trying to have a target on my back. Yeah, Tia. One of the best parts though, of watching it back and you guys were making out. You like kind of kicked your leg over his leg, but your toes were like this, like all sprawled out, fee you had like you had like these frogged I had to rewatch. I love you so much. I was like, oh my god, all right, Tia. As fun as prom was, there was some cloud hanging over the entire evening, and I think going into it, we kind of could see a storm coming between Abigail and Noah. They just seemed really off that day. I was clueless were I feel like you and Noah had a good conversation, so you maybe had some insight, but I really did not know that was coming. The last I heard was that he told her he was falling in love with her, and then I heard they broke up. But after seeing it back, I could count of see his perspective. Yeah, I was not shocked. I had a feeling going into prom that they weren't going to be leaving together. I had a feeling that that was their last night only because, as you said, like I did have a conversation with him that day. Their last conversation that we saw was interesting to me because obviously Abigail just kind of sat there inside for a while and took it all in, and he didn't really give too much context or insight. He kind of just said, I know that I'm falling for you, but I don't think you're the one, and you're not my person. You're not my person, which, like we've all been in relationships where I think we've known, like we could love somebody or have all these feelings and like trying to get somewhere in a relationship, but ultimately we know they're not the one for us. We know that it's not going to work out in the long run, and I think that's what he was trying to get at. The conversation just went for way too long, and I felt for her because that has got to be so hard to just the night before, less than twenty four hours before, have somebody tell you that they're falling in love with them, and then and she went to talk with him too, Yeah, and she wanted to tell him and then it goes to them breaking up. So it's a complete one eighty from I think where they were at night before, and so it's it's tough, and I can speak from his experience being blindsided, which I think she was. And you know, when she removed herself to go sit in the bathroom and cry, I was like, I've been that girl. I felt like it was like a dagger to the heart. I felt so bad for her, and just as a friend in that moment, like I think we all wished we could have been there for her and been in the bathroom to console her and talk to her and make sure she was okay. Obviously we had no idea what was going on. We had no idea what conversation was taking place. So it's a tough one. We don't see how it formally ends, because again it's it's another to be continued into next week. But and it was extra hard too because they had just been crowned, not King and queen, but what was it that they what was the award that succeed or together in the real world or succeed And yeah, after the show to work out in the real world, and so it was. It was tough to watch. But we'll have to wait and see how that to be upset and heartbroken in an eighties outfit. Oh yeah, as if it's not enough, but we have to bring our guests on because he obviously had a major moment, a major date this week, and we got to see a little bit more of him. So Tia, I know he kind of broke hurt a little bit this week, but we had we had to have our guy James on. So, without further Ado Bachler Happy Hour listeners, let's welcome James to the podcast. James, Welcome to Bachelor Happy Hour. It's good to see you again. How are you. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's great to see you guys. You guys look fantastic. I wish I still had my my prom get up with me. I know a Cathwaite jacket, a little Dangley earing good James and evil James. I don't think there's evil James. I don't know where. Yeah, I've never seen the evil James. I don't think he exists. No, he comes out not so often. But I think I will say this because at the end of the night. There was one point where things were kind of winding down own everyone was late, Like half of us were taking naps on the stage, some people were on the on the dance floor laying down. All the couples, you know, are kind of take naps or kissing. And I was sitting right next to you and Anna, and then two of you were talking the entire time and just hit it off. And I remember like kind of dosing off, being like they're so cute, Like this is really precious right now. Yeah, Anna was kind of like a breath of fresh air. You know, my Paradise experience had so many ups and downs and cough cough to you. You made the whole for beginning to We'll get into that. But you know, t and I we we had a run. Obviously didn't work out for better for worse. But um, you know, Tia gave me another shot, right and enabled me to stick around. Welcome. Yeah, yeah, very great, and you deserved it. You deserved it, Thank you, thank you. But seriously, it gave me another opportunity to live to see another day. And then fortunately Anna came in you know, that week, and she was kind of the final arrival. Fortunately, picked me on that one on one day and you know we hit it off right, So shout out to Tia for allowing me to survive that last road, same money and that opportunity. It was an easy choice. So you so far have had quite the journey on Paradise. And I mean t and I have joked like out if anyone were like, how is James still around? Like I know that, like Tia gave you the roses, But it wasn't until what we saw last night this week when Anna arrives where you like really had a solid, solid connection. But we have to take it back to the very beginning, because you were there day one and right away. I mean it seemed like you started off on a decent foot with Victoria P. So take us back to the beginning. Who were you originally hoping to me when you stepped onto the sand and from there? Did you ever think that you and Victoria P would have hit it off? Yeah? Yeah, And a great question as far as how I made it as long as I did. I wish I had the answer for you, but I kind of scraped by each week, but going because you're a good guy. Oh stop it, stop it, it's it really. I remember being in the hotel and I had only really seen you know, Clantatious season and Matt season, so I didn't know too many names that could potentially be coming on the beach. But I wanted to keep an open mind. I wanted to use Paradise for what it was intended for, right, to explore relationships, not kind of have tunnel vision for one person and kind of just put all your eggs in one basket. So walking onto the beach, I wanted to talk with anyone and everyone who was there, right, So UM came in, saw some familiar faces, had a few buddies there obviously from my season. Um. But then when I saw Victoria, I remember the first time I saw her, she was standing at the bar, and I was obviously immediately attracted to her and made an effort to kind of start developing some kind of relationship, some type of connection, and it just felt easy, it felt smooth, It wasn't forced, and we both kind of had this mutual understanding that yes, we are interested in getting to know each other more and more, but we're also not going to block ourselves off to meeting new people and exploring other relationships. So it was kind of a nice start. I felt confident coming into the first week in Paradise, and then obviously that suddenly changed to the night of the first Roust ceremony. You dealt with a lot that that first week when she ultimately eliminated herself. What was going through your mind? How did you feel in that moment? Yeah, I was shocked, you know, to have Tammy and Kelsey comes to that information, which you know, I appreciated, right the honesty and the transparency, and I knew at that point I had to have a very direct conversation with Victoria, And you know, to this day, I don't necessarily fully understand the dynamic of what was going on. And I truly believe Victoria was single coming into Paradise, but I think there was a lot of baggage, maybe in a lot of history from a past relationship that the door maybe necessarily wasn't fully closed. And I think she took a big risk and kind of a leap of faith in coming to Paradise and at least seeing what options were there. And I think maybe her heart was just pulling her in another direction when she got there, and maybe she started missing that individual, and you know, I can't knock her for that. And as upset as I was to have herself eliminate and to kind of have that relationship crash and burn, especially so early, I understood, right, you know, And I've been in situations like that before where you try to kind of move on from your past and it keeps pulling you back, right, So I can't knock her for that. And it did put me in a tough situation because I was probably about an hour out from the first Row ceremony, and I went against my own rule and I kind of put all my eggs in one basket with Victoria and I didn't have a connection with anyone there, anyone else. So I had some last minute discussions with Kelsey and Demi and eventually ended up kind of really giving a friendship rose to Demi. Um. Yeah, And then I was obviously back to square one with the girls having the roses, and I knew I had to kind of start making a connection with girls elsewhere because obviously the toy was gone. What made you give your rose to Demi over Kelsey? Because as the viewer, it seemed like it was going to be going to Kelsey, Like I know, the interaction trying. Yeah, and I know the you said the rose to Demi was more of a friendship thing, and you knew you guys would have fun, but it seemed like you were leaning towards Kelsey. Yeah, it was. It was. It was not an easy decision, right, and both girls are incredible, both equally deserved their shot at love. And you know, in hindsight, I look back, and to be honest, I probably would have given my rose to Kelsey. I think maybe there was a greater potential there beyond just a friendship rose. But I saw Demi was, you know, bubbly and energetic, and you know, she seemed to be there to have fun and meet people. So I eventually came to that choice. But in hindsight, yeah, Kelsey, I think maybe I should have given that a bit more time and attention and seeing where that could have gone. But obviously, hindsight is twenty twenty and Denny got my rose, and I can only move forward from there. Do you look in TV? Damn it, she does, she does. I mean, when Tee and I came down, we were so glad that Demi was still there because we love her. But does a part of you regret that, Like now, looking back, do you wish you would have given I try not to live, you know, looking back and kind of thinking of I should have done this, I should have done that, right, you know, I made my decision and I kind of moved on from it. But yeah, I think about that often. As far as what I should have done in that first Rose ceremony, I mean, first things first, I shouldn't have kind of put the blinders on for Victoria. I should have done what I intended to do and followed kind of my roles and explored different relationships, right, because when that came came crashing down, everyone else was kind of like a stranger to me. I didn't know anything about any of the girls. So that's that's number one. But number two I think, yeah, I think I should have given Kelsey a bit more time and attention. She's obviously fantastic, But yeah, I do certainly think about that. I want to get into moving forward, because like you seemed very open to I think, really talk to anyone and have a connection or at least trying to form a connection with anyone. And obviously, in the weeks to come, we saw drama between Chris and Atlanta go down with you know, potentially having a relationship pre Paradise. The same with Brendan and Piper. So for somebody who came in single ready to mingle, do you have anything you want to say on the matter of you know, the pre paradise. Yeah, and a potential relationship. That's obviously a really delicate subject and it's very trigging to dissect because I learned very quickly and vaternation everyone, it's a very close network, right. You know, when when you go on the show, you're kind of you bust onto the scene, and with social media you have access and be able to communicate with anyone, and everyone kind of becomes friends. Right. And where do you draw the line between friendship and something intimate and romantic? Right? I know, people go on trips together. Piper and Brendan, you know, they hung out a couple of times. So it's very hard to draw the line between a friendship and something romantic, right, And I think it's obviously case by case basis in my opinion. I you know, regarding the Alanna and Chris situation, I think you know, they had that San Diego trip. I truly believe that they were kind of just on a friendship level, found out they were both going to Paradise, and you know, we're excited to meet each other. I think they maybe had a predetermined plan to kind of attached to one another. And then the Brandon Piper situation, that's that's super messy, I know, and to me, I think that was an existing relationship there. You know, you've seen apologies come out, so I try to avoid that. But in my opinion, it's tough, right, and it's a case by case basis. But does any part of you, I want to figure out how to word this, like, is there any part of you that is a little bit upset or disappointed? Because again, I think most people came up down onto that beach, open, ready to talk to everyone, you know, explore any sort of relationship. And so do you feel like, in a way, if that was already in place, or a relationship was already in place, or a plan was already there, it took away from you potentially meeting two women that would be there that weren't already I guess would say like reserved or have this plan? Yeah, though that makes total sense, and I do, right, And I think if you're already committed to an individual or one person, Right, why even bother coming to Paradise, right, work that out, you know, independently, like just in the real world. Right, don't come to the beach and try to finesse and finagle your way rose after rose ceremony and just essentially exchange roses back and forth, right, and have a predetermined plan, Because not only for the guys, but the girls too, You're taking up valuable spots for people that are genuinely they're looking to find a spark bond of connection and have that flourish into a potential engagement and you know whatever, maybe leave the beach together. Right. So, I think this is going to be an ongoing problem that Paradise is going to have, right with contestants having pre existing relationships, I think there's really no way around it. But yeah, eighty k is unfortunate. Yeah, I agree, And I think I'm hoping that from people watching not only this season and those situations transpire on Paradise, but even the season previous and I was a couple of years ago, but having some sort of relationship beforehand, Hopefully people coming on now will realize have stopped the way to go. It never works out in anyone's favor. Hopefully people will be deterred from that after seeing nice Now, I think this season brought a lot to light that you know, you're it will come to the surface, you will be caught. So yeah, hopefully we see a less and less people come in with that kind of predetermined plan and you know, people are really there to explore relationships genuinely and you know, find their match. Yeah, well we eventually see you and Tia exchange some roses. Can you both speak on how did that all come to be? Because I know there's obviously so much behind the scenes. James, you had surprised her and nowhere Yeah, well every week, Tiah, I was back to square one and you can man, I think you went on that first day with Kenny m but I you know, just like I mentioned with Victoria, how it felt easy, it felt smooth. It was the same with you, right, And we had conversations off camera too. Yeah, you and I we had a connection and then it's I felt confident giving my roast to you. And then obviously we had with Blake come on and I wasn't so sure moving forward, but now you it was great me and you. It just never felt forced. It was always easy, and you know, like we had a mutual understanding that you know, we are curious and interested to getting to know each other more, but we're not going to block ourselves off. You know, if we were to go on asking it, go on one on one date, we're going to take it. And yeah, no, either person would be completely fine with that. Right. So, Blake, beyond the stair, notte is in the room, But how did you truly feel or what was going through your mind when Tia went on that date with Taddy Daddy Oh I was I was like, I might as well start packing my bags now. The timing was just going to just get on the next flight home. But listen, like that's I can't knock tear for it. And you know she's out there looking full of just like the rest of us. Right. So what I will say and what I will thank you for, t is when Blake did ask you on that date before you left, you know, you pulled me aside and said, hey, James, I know this sucks, the timing stinks, but out of respect for you, like I just want you to know, I'm going to accept the date and that kind of five minute interaction meant the world to me because you know, I know, eventual when Anna came and whether we seem to be kind of fading a bit, but I kind of wanted to have that same conversation with you, So we kind of carried that mutual respect towards each other and that that meant a lot, right, And I genuinely did wish you the best, you know, with Blake and the date, so I just wanted to thank you for that. Yeah, of course. Okay, So it gets back from the date. Obviously we go into the next Row ceremony. That day, there was a lot back and forth between you and Tia, between Tia and Blake, and it seemed like you really stepped up and went above and beyond to surprise her and make her feel special because she deserves that. I think anyone in any relationship deserves to feel wanted and desired and cared about, which you definitely did for her. Going into that night, did you expect to get TIA's rose or was that were I guess, should I say, were you confident in getting tias rose that night? Yeah? No, absolutely not. And I knew the connection that her and Blake had and the day we had kind of that cocktail party that started a bit earlier. I remember the night prior t and I I'd set something up from her and the conversation kind of revolved around you know what, love languages we kind of fit with, and you know, it was a great conversation, and you know it was something small I did, but you know, I think, you know, the litter things can kind of sometimes it means so much. It doesn't have to be anything crazy or expensive or fancy or anything like that. Just to show someone that you're caring about them is goes a long way. And I got to kind of learn a bit more about Tia and how kind of she she ticks and kind of what she's looking for in a romantic relationship, and um, that next day I kind of said, hey, I'm not really interested in pursuing relationship with anyone other than Tia at this point, so, um, you know, I wanted to make sure she had time with Blake and you know, take advantage of any window or opportunity that I saw to speak with her. And then I can remember a moment you were on a daybed with Blake and the conversation didn't look like it was going well, not at all, and I I said, you know what, let me maybe try to go and see if TA wants to step away from it for about that yeah, And I came over. He did, he tried to save me, and you just looked at me, and I felt I was like, okay, this, I better walk away from this situation. I was like, is this good time right now? And both people are like, uh not really. Yeah. I was like, I'm eating his lunch right now. If you could like just wait a second, I'll be right there. In my head and I was you know, I obviously wanted to continue to pursue things with TIV, but in my head, I thought Blake might be kind of self destructing for me, and I kind of just let that play out. I didn't want to interrupt any more than I already had. But even after that kind of disagreement or fight, whatever you want to call it, that that Tim Blake had, I was nowhere near confident of getting the rose because I just knew the initial connection and spark that they had right and I didn't know what conversation, you know, what dialogue was going back and forth, or what the disagreement was about, but it just didn't look like it was going well from my point of view. I tried to make him jealous here. I was like, Jane set up something for me two nights ago. I was. He was like, so, I'm like, aren't you nervous? He's like, no petition right there, right, I know, Like that's what I wanted him to understand, Like I have a choice here. Someone showing up for someone's not like James the hero in this situation. I need you to try stub it up. Paradise essentially is a competition in itself, right, It's you know, you can't just walk around, you know, not necessarily saying he was doing the bare minimum, but you have to make an impression somehow. You have all said he was doing the bare minimum for somebody on the beach living there. He was doing the like if you could dig a hole and like go underground, like negatively he was doing that. Oh no, no, no, I will say I was team James. I remember talking to Tea that day and she was struggling. I mean, and just in general, like the heat, the lack of sleep, everything gets to you. And so she was struggling because she knew like how incredible and kind you were, and so we were all team James. All of us girls were like things like there's not even a question in our mind. I was telling Becca, or if you were an asshole, it would have made it a lot easier just to be like, no, this is an You're such a great dude. Do you, guys ever feel like I mean proposing questions you. I guess that Paradise almost made you. I hate to be a victim of circumstance, so to speak, but if you had maybe more time in a different setting with Blake, that it would have been different. Because I often feel that you know about us in relationships that I kind of pursued. That's the thing that makes it tricky is that, I mean, that was a situation at hand. We had never met beforehand, but like, what better way than to have no interruptions, no outside influences, nothing else affecting. You have plenty of time to get to know someone, and they still are like, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this. It's all for a TV show, but you're choosing to be on the show. And it just made me think like I was asking for very little, and he was saying, you know, I'm not going to do that here. I would do that outside of this, but not here. And I'm like, well, if you can't do that here, then what makes me think that you're gonna be able to do that in the real world? Because on our date we did have a great connection and I was like, I can see him being someone I would be into outside of this, And that small little conversation that we had that it was off camera, didn't show it where he basically said, I'm not going to set anything up for you. I don't think that's realistic. I don't think that's real life. I think it's fake when guys do that. I think he said he thinks it's fake. That just made me think, well, if you can't do that here, when it's so easy to be set up for you, was gonna make you do that outside of this? So that I just was a major turning point where I was just completely turned off and it wasn't I think you're right that paradise is stressful as it is kind of presents limited interruptions, right, and there are a lot of variables when you go back into the real world kind of life. Gets messy and problems come up. So I guess if you can't do it on that beach, Okay, So I want to get into your first reel. I would say solid, strong connection that gave all of us viewers home. And that was when Anna came down and he and I were recapping a little bit, and we were talking about how random the state that you guys had, but it seems so fun and I think you two made the most of it. How did you feel though about becoming a human turrow? I to be honest, as strange as it was and unconventional, I had a blast from start to finish. And I think not necessarily because of what the day consisted of, but because who I was with on that day right, and I just made it enjoyable from beginning to end. We shared the same sense of humor. We were kind of both lighthearted and saying, yeah, this is super weird, but let's just rolled it and have as much fun as we can. You know, I never thought I'd be lathered up in butter and rolling around, rolling around in a sugar pit, and then having chocolate syrup drenched all over me, turning into a human turrow, Like what I expect to ever be doing that on a first date. No, But it's all about who you're doing things with, not what you're doing, if that makes sense. So I had a blast, and you know, I think she had fun too. What didn't you like more? The turro or the snake part? The snake massage? Was it a massage? Like? Did it? Did it hit the pressure points? So it's weird the like weight and the weight of the snake. And it was ice cold. I've never touched the snake before, but when I felt it, it was ice cold, and if I kind of turned off my mind and stopped thinking that there's a huge Burmese python crawling around my chest and my face and just took my mind. It was it was confident, It was relaxing, but then it was cut. I felt a snake's tongue like slithering on my ear. Back to reality. Let's start freaking out again. That snake was that actually wasn't the snake's tongue. I was anas right next to you. I knew. I just trying. She strodded though. That was spicy. Yeah, we were squeezing each other's hands and the snake massage. I could tell you to freak out because she would just start squeezing my hand harder and harder, and I was like, okay, this needs to end soon before one of us freaks out. Yeah, the hot tub was it got steaming in there for sure. Yeah. Did you feel like a real genuine spark. Yeah I did. And I think it goes back to it's feelings, just super easy from the jump, right. And she remember her walking into the Paradise and kind of picking me for the day card, and I asked her, said, hey, what made you choose me out of all the guys. She said that she saw me and like my face kind of just lit up when I saw her, and I had a big smile on my face, and she was like, I want someone that's gonna be excited and eager to hang out with me, So like you were an obvious choice. Then, you know, from the day, you know, we just had fun and it was you know, we were laughing and enjoying each other's company, and you know, we had kind of some pretty serious conversations about her experience on the Bachelorette, and you know how you carry a lot of insecurities when you're surrounded by thirty guys or girls that are all successful, you know, super handsome, that all the girls are gorgeous writing, so we kind of began to peel back the layers of who we are as people, and then you know, the connection was there. But then obviously intimately, you know, she's gorgeous. I was attracted to her, So it's it was kind of just progressed pretty quickly on that first day. Yeah, it's it seems like you guys really really hit it off and just had some sort of spark there, which was fun to see because that's what we wanted for you the entire time. We wanted you to feel that I wish she could have you know, came week one or week two, but I had to be patient, and you know it was well worth the wait exactly. Okay, so let's get into it. Last night we saw our fun eighties seemed paradise, prom Did you, first of all, have fun that night, because I know there was some mixture of our emotions. Obviously, we saw some sadness between No and Abigail and their breakup go down. There was some other drama like you being there with Anna. Did you enjoy it? Yeah? I had a blast, right, Who's not gonna have fun at from who's not gonna have fun? Just being stupid and dressing up. Um. It was kind of like a flashback in time, going back into the eighties. So I you know a lot of the eighties. When were you born? Yeah? Are you fifty and nobody? No, But it's like it's it's fun, kind of just being stupid and not taking yourself too seriously. And I remember, you know, when Noah and Abigail ran into some problems, I was sad, but you know I was there for Anna, right. I wanted to just focus my attention to my efforts on her and my relationship and progressing that forward. So you're saying I was out of the picture at that point. You were making out his best friend at that point, so I as that ship had sailed to you. I'm sorry, what was your reaction when you found out that Aaron was making the moves on Tia? So Tia and I were There's no no hard feelings there, because I think t and I both were aware that we were kind of sizzling out at that point, and the rose that she gave me was more of I won't call it a friendship rose, but just an acknowledgement of yes, I know you're here for the right reasons. Even though I may not have found my person here, I still believe that you can. So I think it was an understanding of that. You know, we were kind of going our separate ways, and Aaron actually came up to me that night of the promise said, hey, look, you know T and I we kind of started as friends. We get along, but I'm starting to like develop something beyond that, Like are you okay with that? And of course, of course I was right. You know, Aaron's you know, like a brother to me, and I want what's best for him. I want him to find love. So he came to me, and I was more than happy to kind of have him pursue that, right, And I think him and Cia would be a great match. Do you think it's weird though, that he came to you and not Chelsea to talk about it. Yeah, as a friend, Like, that's kind of strange, right, So I think both conversations maybe were necessary. I'm not sure if he did have a conversation with prior with Chelsea pryor or after he didn't. Yeah, I don't think he ever did, but it made it really uncomfortable. She wasn't mad at you. I even talked about she wasn't out at you two. Yeah, but it just like we're living all living together and I'm just like, dude, I love you, Chelsea. I'm so sorry. Yeah, in hindsight, I think maybe Aaron, you know, he should have done that. And I didn ask him about that multiple times. I was like, hey, do you talk to Chelsea about this? How does she feel about this? Where do you stand with her? Yeah? And what did he say? He's like, I talked to James. It's fine, Yeah, He's like, James is my number one. So jokes on everyone. I mean, and Aaron actually had a predetermined relationship and had every knew it. I'm surprised Jill didn't kick you off the beach. I know. I know, well you guys actually did because you live by each other. Oh, we lived down the street. I mean Aaron, he's I swear, you know. I met him on Katie season. We talked about this all the time. How you know, without each other on Paradise, we both probably would have crashed and burned because to have that person to just kind of go and vent out too, and you know, have that friendship at the end of the night where you can just unwind and distress. I probably would have lost my mind with that him there, So having him there was definitely kind of a nice safety net to have. I'm glad. I'm glad someone found love. Yes, wait, okay, James, I have a question for you, because this is something that caught my ear yesterday when I was listening. But I think it had to do Oh, it definitely had to do when Aaron and Ivan were arguing and getting into it the day, the night or the day before the Row ceremony. You made a comment to him when you guys were chatting, basically along the lines of like, you know, I've always got your back, you're my best friend here. And you don't remember what exact words you used, so don't exactly quote me on this, but you said something like, whether you're right or you're wrong, I'll always have your back. But I wish I was intrigued by because if you know one of your best friends is in the wrong, wouldn't you call him out regardless and be like, hey, dude, I love you, you're my guy, but you're in the wrong here. And so I was wondering about that that I wanted to ask you today. Yeah, and I think I used poor wording. Now. Of course, if I feel as if he's making mistake or doing something that's going to result in a kind of a negative way, or him shooting something the foot, I'm gonna say, hey, man, you know I'm going to support you no matter what, but I think maybe you should adjust your approach here. And I think more in that moment he needed that kind of just reassurance that he has me there regardless of you know, he felt ganged up onto and you're kind of like the only one that was going to be honest. Yeah, And I think I just want to make sure he knows that he has a brother nay that is going to support him through anything. And you know, maybe a conversation I have after the facts saying hey, listen, you know you're my guy, but just take a breath and go have a conversation. Maybe you should have handled yourself this way that way. But really in me saying that is just kind of reassuring him that no matter what decisions he makes, no matter what he does, no matter what the outcome, you know, I'm going to support him and see him. Yeah, he's not alone, all right, James, Before we get into our game, I need to know what is the status with you in Aaron these days? Because we saw this beautiful connection, this romance unfold on the beach. So where do you stand with him? Listen that that's my guy. You know, he's he's a brother for life. And you know we met on on Katie season on the bat Surrett and you know we left the same night we got eliminated, the same road Seremon and Katie season. We continue to hang out back in San Diego. He's essentially my neighbor living down the street and just growing super super close. And then to find out that we were both gonna be on Paradise together. Um. True. It was just a relationship that has grown stronger and stronger as each day passes. And you know that's that's going to be a friend for life. Um. I see him almost every other day, and um, you know, Aaron, if you're listening, I appreciate our friendship. I love you man, And it's oh my god, I'm I love it. No, I honestly like I know that we joked about it and everyone was like, oh, where's James with Aaron? And seriously the strongest couple in Paradise. But I think it's so important to to have those friendships. I mean, you not only can potentially find love in a partner on the show, but it's to get through a season. You always need that one person. And thankfully I had Tia, you had Aaron. So I think it's it was a It was a you know, whether you fall in love or not, we don't know. We have to wait for the finale, but at least you fell in love with Aaron, and I'm glad that you two have each other. But before we let you go, because I know you're a busy man, busy man, we have to play a game. So we've been playing this one with all of our recent guests. It's it's easy, it's a Paradise Superlative games. So we're just going to ask you a question and you just have to name the person that it applies to, so rapid fire, we'll just bang them out real quick. So I'll start, who was the funniest in Paradise? Aaron best dressed? If you say Aaron, for if you say Aaron for all of these No, no one's got fresh outfits. Okay, who is the biggest flirt in Paradise, Dammy, Oh, I think we've gotten out a few times too. Um, biggest craw baby? Oh man? Um? Wow? Who did I see crying a lot? Um saw Tammy crying a lot. I'll go with Tammy. I was gonna say, if you say Tia, Yeah, No, I don't think. I don't think I ever. Okay. Who was the most outspoken Joe truth parade? Um, laugh of the party, Demi Michew best best answer? Aaron Aaron TikTok dances. That's all he would without. But he's perfected them. He has all three of them. Um, let's see what he says on this next one. Sexiest in Paradise, Anna, I knew you want to say, Aaron's so bad? I saw I saw the a been forming an a. Okay, Oh, this is a good one. Most muscular Riley, I would say. I would say you too, though, James, Oh, yeah you. Riley runs for his money on his heels. But I don't you know, Riley. He definitely came correct on the beach. James, I have never seen anyone eat as much as you in my entire life. Well, I was it was. I loved it. You know, for breakfast, I just had endless oatmeal, fruit, eggs, all the scrambles. I honestly was shocked to say, you talk so much in your interviews. You're kinda like the narrator of the season because I'm like, this dude never talked during the day because he was eating. He was always a food all day. So you guys, James, I love you, but you make me want to never have boys one day because you guys eat so much. It's so offensive. I know, I'm like a bottomless pit. It's just it's a human vacuum. I don't know where it goes. Okay, wait, Tane, did you just scoor did I go? I said it, but we talked about something else. Heartbreaker in Paradise, Um wow, Um. The biggest heartbreaker in Paradise maybe Thomas, just because I saw him kind of. I know how upset Tammy was, and I can't really think of any major breakup or kind of big switch from one girl to another. So maybe Thomas. That's a tough one at you. No, there was just something in the water, like no comment. Fifth. Okay, I don't quite know what this last one means, but he'll know what it means he'll know the best box bachelorette or Paradise. That seems highly sexual. No, he was in a box. Yeah, you were in a box in Paradise. I was in a large pinata box. Yeah. On his intro, oh, I was like, I don't remember you being in a box? Did you sleep until there is an easy one because on Katie season, I was in a three piece wool suit in that box and it was about a fun reason there. I was sweating bullets. I was in there for hours. In Paradise, I'm on a beautiful beach in Mexico in a bathing suit. I'm gonna go with the Paradise box, no doubt about it. I was just gonna give a really betcha that box. I was honestly like, what are we hinting at her? People? That's my family friendly show, James. It has been such an absolute pleasure just to see you again, to ketch up and to get to know you a little bit more. Because Ta and I are huge fans. We have rained about you. People love you. You are such a genuine kind soul, such a gentleman that I'm glad that people can see like there are still great guys like you out there, so thank you for joining us. I can't wait to see what happens with you and Anna and Aaron next week on the finale. But take care of Telvin. Thank you so much for having me guys, and I miss you guys. Let's let's link up soon. Yeah, I would love that, Yeah for sure. From the California. Yeah you do all right? Thanks James ce later bye, Oh, Tia. What a guy. What a good guy. I know, he's such a good dude, he really is. I'm glad that we were able to have him on because I mean, we've been lucky enough to see bit by bit of him, but it was good to see him finally form a solid, solid connection. And I love that he had his first date, so I know it was a little bit late in the season, but he got it nonetheless, so a huge thing. I mean how it was meant to be obviously since they had a really good connection well, and I loved how he said, like, even though he knew you and him didn't have that romantic relationship, you everything works out, and you obviously gave him that rose to stick around because you knew he was there for the right reasons to find someone and it was perfect timing when Anna locked through those gates. So I'm glad that I'm really glad that you gave him that rose. I know again it was tough for you that week, but he deserves to be there. So it all but a huge thank you to James and for you Tia for joining me again. It's always a blast. And to all of our Bachelor Happy Hour listeners thanks for bearing with us. I know you can't see our great outfits, but if you can go check us out on Bachelor Happy Hour Instagram, please do so because you don't want to miss this get up. And if you want to follow us on both Twitter and Facebook, we are at Badge Nation. And as always, please don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. You can do that on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the Wondering App, or wherever you are listening to us right now. Have a good week.