A New Look in Center Field?

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Hi, this is Chase Utley and this is the Philly Show. Hi, everybody, Welcome to The Philly Show with Ruben Tomorrow, Junior, Jim Salisbury. I'm Todd's lucky. It is Monday, June seventeenth, twenty twenty four. Father's Day was yesterday. Guys, were you properly feted by your loving family? And uh, you know, peeled grapes? What happened?

00:00:35
Speaker 2: What do you what?

00:00:36
Speaker 1: You know? What? How are you guys treated yesterday on Father's Day? You guys do anything cool?

00:00:40
Speaker 3: What do you got?

00:00:41
Speaker 2: Jim?

00:00:41
Speaker 3: I had a nice day with my wife and three daughters and dogs and took a took about a five mile walk, worked in the garden, and then I manned the grill. We had a nice night, nice afternoon.

00:00:56
Speaker 2: All right, that's a pretty pretty chill.

00:00:58
Speaker 4: I got a call for my kids as they going to be in Puerto Rico because they were at a bachelorette party for one of their one of their close close friends slash cousins. And my eldest Andrea is is the bridesmaid so and they're both in the wedding, so they had to be down there. But I got a good call from them. In early in the morning, and they were expressing their regret that they were not there, but they were with us in spirit.

00:01:25
Speaker 2: And then I went off to my mom's.

00:01:26
Speaker 4: Judy had a nice little Judy and Will had a nice little little barbecue in the backyard. Beautiful night, and we had ourselves some chu lettas, some pork chops, some steak, rice and beans, the whole nine yards.

00:01:44
Speaker 2: And Will's sons were there as well. It was a very nice my brother.

00:01:49
Speaker 4: So so we had five dads there chilling and enjoying, enjoying the the backyard at Judy's place.

00:01:57
Speaker 1: That's fantastic.

00:02:00
Speaker 3: It was. Uh.

00:02:01
Speaker 1: I just stayed at home, had a real low key day. My wife for a Father's Day gift, got me this cocktail smoker that you put over like the glass, the low ball glass. And so during the Phillies game on Sunday, I smoked two old fashions and then I I wasn't smoked afterwards, but uh, you know, it helped the rest of the night.

00:02:22
Speaker 2: And then you watch Wheeler and then you watch Wheeler get smoked.

00:02:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right, the Phillies got smoked. After that, Oh my gosh, but it's funny. So on Saturday, I had that book signing at Shipe Sports out in Westchester, Wheelhouse Cards in Westchester and met a lot of great people, went really well, and a lot of people very complimentary of the pod, and it was funny two or three times. You guys must know this. As people walked away, I got a smellulator no way, Yeah, and I got and I got and I got one. I got one. I wish I can remember the guy's name.

00:02:56
Speaker 3: He was so nice.

00:02:57
Speaker 1: He goes say hi to this smellulator boy for me? Who knew that your sophomore humor would catch on and resonate so much with the we have podcast?

00:03:11
Speaker 3: We have Ruben and I have been engaging in sophomore humor for thirty years.

00:03:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, for a long long time, and that.

00:03:19
Speaker 4: One of our last shows will start getting into all the real stuff, some stuff you can say once.

00:03:27
Speaker 1: You guys are saying exactly exactly. But you know now your sophomore humor is spreading to the masses. So you guys should be very proud of yourselves.

00:03:35
Speaker 3: How did you get sell a lot of books?

00:03:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, sold a lot of books. Yeah, it was it was a lot of fun.

00:03:40
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:03:40
Speaker 1: I brought my son out and so he came home with some POKEMONK cards, which is a big deal. You got a couple of packs of baseball cards and he was excited. So, yeah, it was. It was a lot of fun.

00:03:51
Speaker 2: This book right here, man, is really good. It was really really good.

00:03:55
Speaker 3: Man.

00:03:55
Speaker 4: You should get plenty of love for this for a great picture but also a great.

00:04:00
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you very much, thank you very much. Yeah, the Phillies did not have a great weekend in Baltimore. Been a rough stretch for him. Last twenty games, they're ten and ten. So yeah, since they swept the Rangers World Series defending champions, they were thirty seven and fourteen. They're ten and ten since. But oddly enough they've actually gained some gain some games on the braves and the standings. They've only lost a half game to the Dodgers for the best record in the National League. Ten of their next thirteen are at home. Guys, home cooking coming at the right time.

00:04:32
Speaker 3: No question. They're twenty seven and ten at home, played really well at home. You know, I kind of look at this stretch as I look at this team in this little snapshot we're in right now, I see a team that needs a day off. They could really use today off, but they had to use three of them in the last handful of days for London, So you know, they come off a tough stretch, tough trip, and they're right back at it. Just I feel like they could use that recharge day, but they're going to have to you know, you know, draw their recharged energy from you know, being at home and how well they play at home, and the addition to Trey Turner who's expected to come off the IL. I'm not overly concerned about this stretch. But you know, their calling card all year has been great starting pitching, and they haven't gotten that, you know, consistently outstanding starting pitching recently a little blip hair. I think they can get it back. They also have not you know, in Baltimore, and we see this with this offense for years. They occasionally have these periods where they just don't hit with runners in scoring position and those opportunities they don't cash in on. And I think there were two for nineteen in the last two games, both losses in Baltimore. You've got to do more than that if you want to win the game. But hats off to the Orioles, very good team. I think the Orioles took it as a challenge to to show how good they are against this Phillies team, because this Phillies team was off to this really great start. And I also think maybe they took it a little personal that the Phillies fans dominated their ballpark, which, hey, if the seats are available, you know, if the Orioles were drawing better, those seats wouldn't be available. But almost like they're a little bit of an underdog in their own ballpark and they showed them.

00:06:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, pretty impressed by by the Orioles. And you know, Boston played them tough as well. I mean they swung the bat pretty well. But yeah, you're right, Jim there. The pitching has been a little inconsistent. Starting pitching been a little inconsistent, and obviously their offense has not really gone crazy over the last you know, ten days or so.

00:06:49
Speaker 2: I you know, I don't get too concerned about the pitching thing. You know, Aaron Nola.

00:06:53
Speaker 4: Had like what eight days off or whatever, and then you know, they just haven't gotten and I think Weeler's start was probably, you know, one of the worst starts he's ever had in his career. I think he can flush that one and put that away, much like Aaron Nola's going to do.

00:07:10
Speaker 2: One of the things I did.

00:07:11
Speaker 4: Notice about Wheeler's outing was he's missing his spots quite a bit.

00:07:16
Speaker 3: You know.

00:07:16
Speaker 4: One of the things, one of the things that he has done extraordinarily well even with the stuff that he has, is that he's really hit his spots well. And like you know, he and Stubbs were, you know, where Stubbs was asking for a fastball.

00:07:29
Speaker 2: Away or a cutter in.

00:07:31
Speaker 4: He really was not getting his pitches to his spots. And Baltimore is a really good ball club. I got a chance to, you know, see them talk with Freddie Gonzalez a little bit and Brandon Hyde about their ball club during spring training, and you know, they're really excited about.

00:07:45
Speaker 2: Their club that I think that they did a great.

00:07:46
Speaker 4: Job finally of getting that top of the rotation pitcher in Corbyn Burns. I think that was the best trade of the offseason, without question in my mind, because it was you know, pinpointed a real need for them, and now they've you know, they've got a legitimate World Series contending team with some young players who can really play, anchored by Adlie Rutchman and Gunner Henderson who are right in the middle of things, very.

00:08:15
Speaker 2: Very good young players.

00:08:16
Speaker 4: Rutchman who is, uh, you know, best young catcher in the game, I think from both sides of the both sides of the ball. And then Gunner Henderson, who's one of the best young shortstops in the in the game, is good you know, probably start the start, you know, so you start thinking about how good they are up at the middle of the field, and uh, man, it's a good ball club, And I think you're right. I think they view that as a challenge to see what they can do against the Phillies, and they beat them up pretty good and pretty impressive team.

00:08:44
Speaker 2: So I know, I don't have to hang their heads.

00:08:46
Speaker 4: But the Phillies don't have to hang their heads because they got beat by a pretty good club. But they do have to regroup and get a breather and and start playing the game the way that they have for you know, most of the most of the season.

00:09:00
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about the pitching either. I think that'll bounce back. Like you said, Nola, that huge long layoff that was that was rough for him and Wheeler. He has those every once in a while and then next time he's gonna go out and he can go eight seven, eight innings, one run, ten, ten strikeouts. But it was a frustrating weekend though, And you could tell it was a frustrating weekend when you saw mild mad manager Rob Thompson as mad as I've ever seen him. Have you ever seen him that mad?

00:09:26
Speaker 3: Never?

00:09:27
Speaker 1: I mean I've asked him some dumb questions over the years and he has handled you know, I haven't even seen him. I haven't even seen raise an eyebrow at me. But obviously that's a lot different. But I've never seen him on the field lose it like he lost it on Sunday. And afterwards, players in the clubhouse said they really appreciated seeing Rob Thompson have their back and show up for them and argue on their behalf and that stuff can be meaningful, right, I mean, I always remember Charlie Charlie Manuel saying this, you got to pick your spots, and I know, I get I know you guys probably hear this a lot too. Fans wondering why Rob Thompson doesn't show more emotion, or why he doesn't get thrown out more, or why he doesn't bench a guy if he does this or does that, why he doesn't have more team meetings. Not that they've needed a lot over the past couple of years, but I think if you have, if you're screaming and yelling a lot, if you're having a lot of team meetings, if you're getting ejected a lot, it kind of loses its significance. So when Dad goes out there and raises his voice not that often, it's more impactful, is it not?

00:10:33
Speaker 3: No question? If you do it all the time, you lose your cred. It's like when Pat Gillick used to walk through the clubhouse. Pat didn't hang around the clubhouse of Tom, did he Rubin. I don't remember him around the clubhouse a lot.

00:10:43
Speaker 2: No, that was thing. It was way more stealth than that.

00:10:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that was maybe he was in there, but you know, earlier in the day. But when Pat kind of walked through the clubhouse, I always felt like everybody perked up a little bit because it was kind of unusual. But yeah, you got to pick your spots. And uh, I think, you know, there was some frustration on Friday night. But if he if he could, you know, it goes out and loses it there, it's gonna look like, well, you know, they they lost one game and he's going nuts. But he had good reason to do it yesterday. I mean that that missed call early in the game cost him a home run by Gunnar Henderson, cost you know, Wheeler and out there, and then there was a pitch off the plate and then there was the stubs thing. So I think it was it was justified. I think some frustration came out, and players do interpret it as having their back, especially you know, a Wheeler and a Stot, and that that situation would feel that way, Stubbs, it does. Do you remember a time, you guys when the Phillies good teams under Charlie were not playing well. They were like in this daze. They were like zombies sleepwalking, and Charlie lost it on them in the dugout in Miami. Do you remember and talking about picking your spot? And I have no doubt it was sincere. He was legitimately frustrated. But you talk about going out and taking it on an umpire. How it you know, it can send a message or be interpreted as you know, the team has your back. It can be the manager has the team's back and be a wake up call. Also, Charlie, who's ultimate players manager, blowing up and his players can have a you know, some emotion at the right time can really in a sport where it's an even keeled emotional sport, showing some emotion at at certain times picking your spots can be very, very impactful. I believe and I always remember that night Charlie went off in Miami. You guys remember it.

00:12:39
Speaker 1: I do remember that. I remember he walked up and down the dugout. As I recall, you know how Charlie talks. His head was kind of cocked to the side and the one hand was kind of like, you guys, He's basically tell him how bad they were, and the effort wasn't there. Yeah, I totally remember that one.

00:12:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do.

00:12:56
Speaker 4: Believe in and listen, I will talk. I will tell you that Rob tom has been around the game a long time. He's seen managers operate. He's seen from Joe Torre to Joe Girardi, et cetera, et cetera. He's seen a lot of baseball and he's seen a lot of people handle themselves as leaders.

00:13:15
Speaker 2: I think Rob Thompson is a gem. I really do.

00:13:17
Speaker 4: I think he's intelligent. I think he's impactful. I think he's meaningful and intentional and uh, and he really does know how hard this game is.

00:13:28
Speaker 2: And so I think he's real souper super supportive. And I think if you.

00:13:32
Speaker 4: If the players know that he has your back, then it gives you license to get on them. I mean, Bobby Cox was like that too, one of the best managers of all time. Bobby Cox would be super super supportive of as players publicly, but it also gave him license to zip him when he had to, you know, take him into the you know, take him into the club, into his office and pop them and say, hey, man, you're not giving me what I need or with this team needs, or whatever the case may be. And so I think that that I think the ejection probably a little combination. He's a human being, a little combination of being a little.

00:14:09
Speaker 5: Frustrated with the with what was going on as theirs as far as their overall play, but also uh, trying to make sure that he has his players backs and uh, and also maybe given off.

00:14:22
Speaker 2: He's a human being, right, given off a little steam.

00:14:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes sometimes you got to get a little pissed off and that's okay and uh and I think that's that's good stuff.

00:14:32
Speaker 1: Do you think he could gets suspended.

00:14:36
Speaker 2: I I don't think so.

00:14:38
Speaker 4: I mean, even if he might just get it a little fine, I don't feel gets suspended. But but I think they missed the call and the ball hit the dudes hit study his foot. I mean, there was no question about it. And I can't believe that they screwed that up, but they did. On top of that, I mean, he had a legitimate beef. If this is the guy at second base was making the call when Eastbrook was standing right there right, I mean, he should have should have seen the ball hit the foot.

00:15:07
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like he was getting blocked off by Retchman or anything like that, or catching it.

00:15:11
Speaker 1: The only reason I asked about the suspension is I was looking at memorable ejections and Charlie got tossed. On May fifteenth, twenty twelve, he and Bob Davidson went nose to nose in a game, balking bomb bucking Bob. Yeah, they went nose to nose and both of them got suspended. Charlie got suspended. I think maybe just Bob's Davidson got suspended. He got suspended for one game for his actions and not de escalating the situation. And that did not look like a situation that was trying. Anybody was trying to.

00:15:41
Speaker 2: De escalate that one.

00:15:42
Speaker 1: It was like, let's let like, let these guys go. That was wild, right, Yeah, yeah, they both got after it.

00:15:47
Speaker 2: A little bit.

00:15:49
Speaker 3: That was old school. We don't see a lot of that anymore with technology and the robotization of the game. Speaking of which I mean, someday we might see automatic strike zone, automated strike zone where the wheeler pitch, you know, the hitter or the pitcher or the catcher would tap it ahead and get a challenge and it's a strike. I mean, how do we feel about that?

00:16:15
Speaker 2: I think we're headed there.

00:16:16
Speaker 4: I mean, the slippery started when and I remember David Montgomery talking about it when the challenges in general were going to happen. At some point, all of it was going to start working its way down the slope.

00:16:28
Speaker 2: And so it's going to happen.

00:16:30
Speaker 4: It's just that I'm not sure exactly how they're going to manage it, but I'm sure they'll manage it one way or another, whether whether it's a challenge or it's automatic all the time.

00:16:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the idea of a challenge system. I know, I think, I know, Ruben, I believe you said you like the human element of the game, and I don't disagree with that, But I will say that that perspective always changes. If it's Game seven of the NLCS, Bryce Harper's up three to two and it's ball four and it's it's called strike three, games over. You know, those are the moments where I go, I'm not so much. I don't know how much I'm into the human element of the game. The Phillies, you know, or your team whoever you're rooting for, just lost a key moment.

00:17:11
Speaker 3: You know.

00:17:11
Speaker 1: I'm sure Jim Joyce would love to, you know, instant replay. His could have saved a lot of big moments in baseball history, changed a lot of big moments in baseball history, like that perfect game in Detroit many many years ago.

00:17:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. I felt so felt so badly for Jim. Such a great guy and a great total empire.

00:17:29
Speaker 4: I mean, he's literally a I think he is a Hall of Fame umpire and a Hall of Fame person.

00:17:35
Speaker 2: And he was legitimately crushed by that.

00:17:37
Speaker 3: That was you know, that was because he was a good umpire he was. I remember that we were in Atlanta when that happened. I remember being in the Atlanta airport, you know, you know, waiting for a flight back to Philly at like a TGI Fridays and grabbing something. You might have been with me, Todd, and we're watching that unfold on the TV. And then I get on the plane and I'm following it on on the you know, I think I was following it on Twitter the whole It was just crazy. And then do you remember Jim Joyce was in Philadelphia the next day that crew came to Philadelphia, because I remember seeing him and actually saying Hi to him, and he was still pretty shaken. And replay would have saved that whole thing. Remember who the runner was? Was it a former Philly Yes, the Cleveland he was with Cleveland?

00:18:26
Speaker 2: Was it Michael Martinez?

00:18:28
Speaker 1: Jason Donald?

00:18:29
Speaker 3: It was Jason Donald. Then he comes about the bag and he's like, oh my god. It was a rough scene that I wouldn't wish on anybody.

00:18:38
Speaker 1: And that's why I like the idea of a challenge system. Maybe you get three challenges per team per strike zone, so you have to have to make sure the guys that know the strike zone, you have to make sure you're right, you know the automatic full automatic strike zone. Sounds like it could extend the games a little bit and not really help as much as you want. So I like that idea, a little challenge.

00:19:00
Speaker 2: It's gonna happen in the next year or two.

00:19:02
Speaker 1: Right, right, So trade turner is going to be activated today, we all assumed. Rob Thompson basically said, unless something unforeseen happens, the expected move is Johann Rojas getting optioned to Triple I suppose they could change their mind, or you know, maybe they haven't totally made up their mind yet. Uh, Johann Rojas getting optioned to Triple A to kind of boost their off field production. Brandon Marsh presumably will be the center fielder, maybe sharing some time with Christian Pace. You have some combination of David Dahl, Wit Mayfield, maybe ed Mundo Sosen left field. We like this.

00:19:39
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna boost your offense a little bit, has the potential to boost your offense and probably maybe not even weak in your defense because Rojas hasn't been He made a nice play in Baltimore for the weekend, but he hasn't been you know, the you know, double plus defender they thought he would be. He hasn't been an elite level, But he's also not a f product. I don't think some time if he approaches it the right way mentally, he may take it pretty hard. He's been up in the big leagues for a while and the teammates like him. But if he approaches it the right way as a chance to play regularly and and just go out and try to improve and get back here, it could be beneficial for him and the team. We'll say, Ruben, what do you think.

00:20:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been through it myself. I mean, obviously not.

00:20:26
Speaker 4: The prospector of talent that he was, but he you know, I get the I understand the feeling, and in some ways it may be a little bit of an all albatross taken off.

00:20:34
Speaker 2: Him because there's some pressure to be up there and to perform for a team that's winning.

00:20:39
Speaker 4: Obviously there'll be a disappointment if he is sent out. But but again, I mean in some ways it may it really should benefit him.

00:20:49
Speaker 2: I think he needs to work.

00:20:50
Speaker 4: On some things and think he's he can be a better offensive player. He is not as you said Jim, not a finished product. But but I think this is a good thing. I just feel like this is a good time for them to do it. And it also opens up the thought process and it, you know, sends off some alarms as to what the Phillies might be thinking about doing at the trade deadline, and pretty they need some production from the outfield, they really do. And so you see, I know that trade turner's coming back and marsh is going to start, you know, getting back into the rhythm of things. But I do believe that they would benefit from thinking about getting somebody on the corner, maybe left field who can bang it around a little bit, or center field who can bang it around a little bit with with a little bit more authority, and give them a little bit more depth in that than that lineup, because there are going to be times when and right now is one of those times when you know, the big boys aren't aren't producing and they need some they need some production from the guys in the you know, down further than the lineup.

00:21:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned the outfield production. Rubin Phillies outfielders twenty seventh in Baseball six twenty five ops center field, mostly with Rojas twenty seventh, five seventy five left field, twentieth six seventy six right field with castianis you know, he's not going anywhere six twenty three, that's twenty fourth in baseball, So yeah, they have you know, it kind of frees him up a little bit. I guess if you put Rojas down there, it does give him an extra right, you know, more reason, more reason to think that they'll that they'll go out and do something. So you think, here's do you play Marsh? Do you run him out there every day?

00:22:34
Speaker 3: Now?

00:22:34
Speaker 1: You talk about you need some more offensive production, and everybody says, how's Marsh going to hit lefties if he doesn't face lefties? But he has really struggled against lefties this season and in his career, So how do you balance that, Well, we're sending Rojas down because we need more offensive production, but Brandon Marsh doesn't really hit lefties this year or that well, this year he's betting one thirty five three ninety nineteen strikeouts and forty four played appearances against lefties. How often do you play them against lefties?

00:23:07
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe not at all. Maybe you know, if Pash is going to hit lefties, you might have to just go straight platoon. You know, I don't know what the answer is, But if you're sending down Rojas, obviously he's got an option that makes it a little smoother. But if you're trying to find more production in the outfield, you owe to yourself to go with the platoon if that's going to give you the most production. It's not necessarily another chance to find out if Marsh can hit lefties or give him more training there. You're here to win a division and win ball games. If he gets a stray start against a lefty and he looks good, maybe he gets another one. But I think you got to prioritize production, and if it's a platoon with Pasha and Marsh, that's probably the way I would go.

00:23:55
Speaker 4: You guys, so I'm totally different. I would just run him out there right now. They have a luxury being able to do that. I'd run him out there every single day and find out find out if he can do it. As you as you get closer and closer to the UH the trade headline, to decide whether or not, Okay, what do I need in the outfield on the corner, basically left field, If I can truly trust Brandon marsh to be our center fielder, to be, you know, our center fielder for a World championship team. I would run them out there every single day from now on end. I would let him hit as many lefties as possible and find out and if he can't do it, then I know then I know, I know. I know it's been a while, and I know he's had but he's he's had sort of sporadic opportunities to hit against lefties.

00:24:37
Speaker 2: He hasn't given him like every single lefty.

00:24:40
Speaker 4: I think you just run him out there, find out what he can do, whether he can end up making an adjustment or not. And if he can't, now they may they may have Lady made his decision. But if he can't, then then you know, And I think that they gave the luxury of being able to do that right now.

00:24:55
Speaker 2: I don't disagree with that.

00:24:56
Speaker 4: They're in the business of winning and they don't want to start slim, I think. But they still have eight games up on the Braves, and the Braves are getting more hurt.

00:25:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they lost you know Harris too again.

00:25:09
Speaker 4: I mean, they keep having problems in their outfield. They're not producing it's not a great team right now. They're not playing great and there's nobody else pushing them.

00:25:20
Speaker 3: But we also know that. I think regardless of the lead, you have managers and teams fall in love with production, and there's evidence on this team in Sosa. I don't think he was option, you know, I don't think he was the preferred option to fill in for Trey Turner. I think he produced and kind of seized that opportunity. So hey, if what you're saying, if marsh is going to get looks against lefties, he's got to seize it. But if he doesn't and they go platoon and it works, I think they're going to ride that regardless of their of their ad in the standings.

00:26:02
Speaker 1: Do we think we're actually going to see Sosa in left fields?

00:26:06
Speaker 2: Next question? That great question.

00:26:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:26:08
Speaker 1: I mean, because we hear this all the time. While we're gonna give this guy some looks, you know, we're gonna give him some looks, and then the games actually play and then you go like what happened? Edmund knows Alsa playing left field? It's like, well, you know, we got David Doll, We've got with Merrifield. They're more experienced you wa, you know, so that that will be interesting if they actually do play Sosa in left field as some sort of like three headed platoon situation with with those three guys. If it is again, if it is Rojas getting sent down, A lot.

00:26:35
Speaker 2: Of it depends on whether Merorfield.

00:26:37
Speaker 4: They feel merriorfield is Uh is able to do that, and when they think that Sosa is more going to be more productive with the bats, and why not give Sosia an opportunity out there and left And I think Rob Thompson hinted to hinted at it just recently. He said, Hey, it's going to start to taking some flying off, So I'm okay with toss someone out there. And again with has Uh is that some decent at that but hasn't been super productive and certainly has been more productive with the bat than than some of the other guys there Pash included, So hey, they might throw him out there as well.

00:27:12
Speaker 3: If if indeed it's Rojas Rubin, I mean, you've been been there, You've been on both sides of it. But from an executive standpoint, the guy who's been in with the big league team for close to a year, he came at blaged to lie. How difficult is that conversation? How delicate is that conversation? Knowing you're dealing with a young guy and confidence is so important, you don't want to break them and shatter them. You want them to grow from this. Tell me how how that conversation is handled.

00:27:45
Speaker 4: So I would basically bring every one of the people that sort of touch him and work with him into that meeting, So not just be the manager.

00:27:54
Speaker 2: It would be you know, Paco Figueroa, who works with him in the outfield.

00:27:59
Speaker 4: It would be Kevin Long who works with him, maybe even the assisting hitting coach as well, And I would bring in the minor league director. I'd fly him in wherever he was and we would sit down and have the conversation. This is the plan for you, these are the things that we'd like you to work on. This is going to be long term for you. This is going to be the right it's going to be the right thing for you. And let's be honest, hey, you're you're not producing at the level that we need you to. You can and will and then kind of go from there. So that's that's it. In a nutshell, it's a it's delicate, but it's I mean, I've been there, and I want people to be honest with me.

00:28:46
Speaker 2: That was one thing that was.

00:28:47
Speaker 4: Really important for me, for a person to be straight and honest and open and direct about what they needed from me, so that when I went down there and did what I needed to do, that I would be back up.

00:29:04
Speaker 2: And and be, you know, be a productive player. But nothing like honesty.

00:29:08
Speaker 4: And I've had that conversation with a couple of guys that was a utility player a long, long time ago, was interesting utilally a long time ago, and he used to be with the Angels, and I can't I'm brain locking on his name right now, but he was a middle infielder and I was an assistant GM and he was having a decent spring.

00:29:31
Speaker 2: And he got sent out.

00:29:33
Speaker 4: He had he had options or I think he was a six year free agent, was battling for a utility spot, and he became a long term manager in one of the organ like another organization.

00:29:44
Speaker 2: He was a Cleveland Indians. Later on, but.

00:29:47
Speaker 4: I was at a reading it and he asked me. He actually got sent out, and then he came he wanted to have a meeting with me personally. He said can you please tell me why I got sent out. I said, I'm going to be honest with you, my friend, because you're not good enough to play in and they leagues right now. You're a good player, but you're not major league talent, and we need people at the major league level to be major league talented and to make these and to have an impact on our team. And he hated me for a while when I told him that, because that's a tough thing to hear when you're trying to be a major league player. He came to me years later as a manager. He actually I went to see his team, who's managing a team in the Eastern League.

00:30:28
Speaker 2: He came to me later on and said, rub.

00:30:30
Speaker 4: And I just want to let you know, now that I'm in position, I totally understand how you handled this. He said, I really respect, I've grown to respect and understand, and I really appreciate how honest you were with me, because now I have to do the same thing with them, some of the players we have to release or send down or whatever. And I understand from this perspective what it takes to be in your position. And that really actually made me feel really good because that's how that's what I wanted to hear when I was getting sent out or I was being optioned, or I was being released, or whatever the case may be. And uh, and I think that that was an important part of the process.

00:31:10
Speaker 1: I wonder if one of the messages that Johan will get again, if it is him getting optioned today, is remember in spring training when you were out there every morning with Sean Williams working on your bunning drills, Maybe try dropping a few more bunts. You know he's got one bunt hitt all year. You know that was a thing going into the season, is we want this guy bunting a lot, utilizing his speed, and he really hasn't done that. So I don't know. I wonder if that would be part of the message or is that maybe overrated?

00:31:37
Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, I think the whole I think for him is the whole game. I mean, defensively got a little lackadaisical. You know, he was one of those guys who busted at all the times.

00:31:44
Speaker 4: One of the things I was really impressed by him that he he was very conscientious, didn't get too cool in the outfield.

00:31:50
Speaker 2: Now you see him in the major leagues.

00:31:51
Speaker 4: Get a little too cool little, you know, make some mistakes here and there, you know there. I think the entire game. He needs to work on the entire game, because he's not a finished product. He's got talent and he has ability, but he's got the he's got the whole game's got to work on.

00:32:08
Speaker 2: And that's the whole reason why they had the minor leagues.

00:32:11
Speaker 1: Right So tonight Philly is open. Ten of their next thirteen are at home. Monday night Tonight, Christopher Sanchez versus Randy Vasquez Padres, He's one in three four nine three ERA. Tuesday, it's Aaron Nola versus Michael King Righty five four three five eight ERA, and then they finish it up on Wednesday, Rangers Suarez versus Matt Waldron four and six three six six ear A pottery is going into the weekend. We're one of the only five hundred teams above, only National League teams above five hundred.

00:32:43
Speaker 3: So just swept by the Mets.

00:32:45
Speaker 1: Just swept by the Mets exactly, so they're kind of reeling a little bit. So good opportunity for the Phillies to try to get healthy. It will be good to get in front of the home crowd, So we will be back later this week. Phillies do have an off day coming up, Like you guys mentioned at the top of show, they much needed off day that's coming up on Thursday. But so we'll be back on Thursday.

00:33:08
Speaker 2: Smelling and Jim.

00:33:15
Speaker 1: This is the Philly Show. If you haven't already, please subscribe to The Philly Show wherever you get your podcasts. You can also watch us on our YouTube channel. If you like what we do, give us a review, tell a friend. Catch Rubenjim and Me on Phillies Nation TV, presented by Valley Forge Tourism. New episodes air an hour before every Saturday Phillies game on NBC Sports Philadelphia. Replays air throughout the week and on Philliesnation dot com. Get more of Ruben's analysis during before and after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Radio ninety four, WIP Morning Show, and MLB Network Rejim at the Allcity Network at allphl y dot com. Find more of me at MLB dot com, the philliesb Newsletter, and accasionally on MLB Network

00:34:09
Speaker 5: MHM