Clayton Echard & Rachel Recchia’s Perfect Rematch | Happy Hour

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome back to be Bachelor Happy Hour.

00:00:04
Speaker 2: I'm Charity and I'm Rachel, and today we have a very special surprise guest, my favorite ex boyfriend, Clayton. Welcome to happy Hour?

00:00:15
Speaker 3: Is that true? Am I your actual favorite? You know? You absolutely are? Are you all right?

00:00:21
Speaker 2: I'm not, I'm not, but I do have to apologize off the bat. Mean, sure, you were a little late today. I just got back from the gym.

00:00:29
Speaker 4: So going to the gym lately consist. But no, we are. We're so excited to have you on. Thank you.

00:00:38
Speaker 3: I'm excited to be here, guys. I'm excited to be here. You know I deserved a little shout out again, That's fine, We're I would be If I didn't think that was coming, then I'd be ridiculous. We've been shown up on here are you guys? That's the only one? Am I going to have to just be dodging all this entire time?

00:00:56
Speaker 4: Listen to get used to dodging because we got some coming. So you're not.

00:01:01
Speaker 3: Are both wearing black, so like we're matching, matching, so like we run it back at the third time.

00:01:07
Speaker 1: I know, yes, speaking, I'm going to get right into it. Because you said the magic word matching. We have to talk about Perfect Match first off, because there's a lot of history obviously between YouTube, but starting with you, Clayton, I need to understand and inquire what made you want to do Perfect Match?

00:01:31
Speaker 3: Uh? Look, I think reality television is fun at this point. Now. It's like a challenge as far as like yourself in a foreign environment and seeing like how you adapt. And I think it's very psychological. I think we all know that people go on for a multitude of reasons. So it's like we're here for the show, but who's really here for a right reason? Or is our right reason? Or who's here for fame, who's here for an act relationship, who's trying to make themselves look good? And like, I think the whole thing is just super psychological. So I just feel like it really tests me and I grow a lot from these experiences. So that was the intrigue.

00:02:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm curious to know, like, in what ways do you feel like you've grown from Perfect Match in specific?

00:02:15
Speaker 3: Rachel answer this too, right, I'm curious about.

00:02:19
Speaker 4: Why did I go on?

00:02:20
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, let's just make this so like three way.

00:02:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, because I am curious. I guess for me, something that was really exciting was on my journey in The Bachelor. I never got to have a season where I was by myself or a spot on paradise where I wasn't the Bachelorette. And I was really excited to go on Perfect Match because I got to just be alone, or what I thought was going to be alone, because Blake was the only other person I knew they were talking to. So I wanted to ask, too, were you surprised when they reached out to you?

00:02:55
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I mean, because I was just like, what's why now? I mean, I guess I had some videos, like my dance videos were you know, being pushed around the internet, and so that's the way they phrased it. They're like, you know, we love your dance videos and we just want you to come on to dance.

00:03:08
Speaker 2: And that's what they told you.

00:03:11
Speaker 3: That's what they told me. Yeah, And so I guess maybe my ego is like you know what, I've had some videos go viral and like maybe I am popping up all over the place and like that's maybe this makes sense. I'll be like the big shock, you know, coming from outside of the Netflix universe. But when you walked in the first day, I was like, and that's why I'm here. Yeah, so that's really hot.

00:03:31
Speaker 1: All right, So did you guys not know, like, you know, you hear rumblings of like people who might like join the cast. Did you know Clayton that Rachel was like, you know, going to be there or considered like to possibly be there.

00:03:45
Speaker 3: Not at all. No. The what happened was somebody slipped up while I was there and accidentally shared that she was coming, and it was like completely off. It was off camera, it wasn't so I supposed to be held to me. And that's when I knew about like two days before she showed up. Wow, not prior to that point.

00:04:04
Speaker 4: Wow.

00:04:05
Speaker 2: And so then I knew on my date going into the villa. So I felt like kind of prepared, but I don't think we could have prepared for like how dramaic it was. But if the Bachelor's going to do anything, it's going to bring the drama to a show that's classically very unseerious.

00:04:22
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:04:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I like it. Also, it was just so fast and I'm not not here to make excuses, but I could just really go back into my head for a second here, like it it really pulled back all these like conversations we didn't have and all these feelings, like I ripped it all right back into the forefront, Like I was completely caught off guard. And I think like I also, I was already had a couple of drinks that night, and I was like totally a sound mind. But it was just like this, like you know, kind of like feel good. I'm on vacation, I'm into loom. Life's good. Create like, man, how blessed am I to be here getting paid some decent money, just like chill some people for thirty Like I'm vibing, and then it's just like boom, Rachel comes walking in. I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And it's like, of course, like all those like emotions rush back. It's like because part of that point, I mean, Rachel, you and I had like we've we've been in a couple spots, you know, like over the course of the years, like we've run into each other, but it's like obviously we're not in the same city, we're not bumping into each other often. So it's like two years goes by, we see each other, two years goes by and then it's like there's a lot to catch up with, right, So I just completely was overwhelmed, and of course that's what you saw a plan on screen was. I was just like my brain was just fluttering all over the place. So but that's you know, of course, it's like once she came in, I was like, this is why they have us here, and this was the main it was the main storyline.

00:05:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, they loved playing that in the trailer. I'm curious. I know that you've been You've been really vocal about producers and your edit on The Bachelor. What did you think was going to be different coming over to Netflix?

00:05:59
Speaker 3: Different teams, so just different results. But what I've what I found was that it's not the producers, it's the editors. And I think I unfairly blamed the producers on The Bachelor when it's really to me, it's the editors that just basically take footage and they decide, look like, there's no nuance unless you're on a show like Love Island where they're showing every single day. They don't have time to so they show you as you are. But when they got you know, sixteen hours of footage, and they got to pack it into one episode. They're like, let's just like there's no time for nuance, so you're good or bad. And I think that's like where I should have known that going into Perfect Match, that the formatting was the same. So it's like, Okay, we have someone who's good and someone who's bad. You can't be anywhere in between because we don't have time to like draw, you know, basically portray nuance. So I thought that in different network, like it could be a redemption thing and I could just be my fun self and I wouldn't be at the center of drama. But then the course, like the second that they bring in and acts from a previous show, it's like you're bringing all of that back. Yeah, it means I'm already now under fire again for like the same thing unless I act differently, and I don't. I don't regret, you know, I don't regret. I can can we say that it was it was messy, of course, but like I don't regret like giving it an initial chance, because I was like the safe thing to do would have just been like, you know, stay away, so great to see you. That's the safe thing. But like I truly believe that, Like I'm just never gonna choose the safe thing. I'm gonna choose the thing that feels right in the moment. We can all sit here and be like Clayton, maybe you should pick up on things a little faster.

00:07:27
Speaker 4: That's fine, I said, hello.

00:07:30
Speaker 3: We can all say that, like I and I, And honestly, I've learned as I've grown up, like I grew up in a household. Again, I'm just gonna explain what I think is has occurred. I grew up in a household to old boys. We never talked about emotions, so like it's new to me, so me like feeling my way through emotions, presenting them. Like people said on the batch, I was cold at points, and it definitely read that way, but it was because I was crying behind closed doors. So I showed up. It was like, I'm like, I can't cry in front of women. That's that's I was told never to do that as a man, So like it's but the course that's perceived is like he's just staring at this woman cold, you know, while they're looking at while they're looking at them in tears. So the same thing though, Like as I've evolved and went to therapy and all that, Like, I'm still learning, Like these emotions are new to me. So like I think people are on the they hit the nail on the head when they're like he means, well, he's just like not quite picking it up quick enough, and it's like that's fair. I don't disagree with that.

00:08:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned like like producers and kind of going in and like it all kind of being very similar. Do you ever feel or like felt, I should say, or since in the moment when you saw Rachel was there and like you guys, I guess making that ultimate decision to like try and rekindle, did you ever in your head possibly think like, oh, this is like maybe a bait that they're setting up for me to like kind of fall.

00:08:46
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I mean, I mean, but to your point, like that's exactly what they were doing. Yeah, all I did. I just saw her come in and she just started cheese and smiling at me like Rachel, and I just felt that I felt that emotion of like, oh my gosh, look who it is. And I wasn't like stay away, dude, you're going to screw this all up all over again. I was just in the moment, and like when she walked in, I was like I felt this rush of like what's going on here? Like what's happening? Yeah, like there there's there's still there were strong feelings. Then there's always Yeah, I obviously admire you, Rachel, like I think you're a great human being, and like obviously we connected originally because there was substance there, right, So like all of a sudden, you just like throw someone back in the mix again and you're all those feelings fled back up. And I was just telling myself, like Clayton, act upon how you feel. Don't think about like how will this be perceived? And we're beheaded because then I can't be present with her in that moment. So I'm shut all that all that overthinking out and just be here right in front of her. And That's what I was doing. So yeah, of course it was a setup. I mean yeah, I just was like, don't think about how it's going to be seen, just be here.

00:09:54
Speaker 1: Mm hm, did you I'm going to ask both of you guys, did you guys ever think at a point like, oh, this could possibly like what if this works out, or like we might like rekindle and like I.

00:10:04
Speaker 2: Don't think we had time we like saw I should say that night, and then the next day I didn't see you at all.

00:10:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I went through in my head. I mean I like fast forwarded overnight while I was laying in bed, you know, just like thinking about if this works, and I was like fast forwarding in the future and our discussions we were having, and I was like, I was like putting like in my head a family. I was like if we were like how Like I was racing all of it fast in my head because I was just like, hey, I can't mess this up, like I've already hurt her, like I really do care about her as a person, so like I need to make sure that I feel like I'm right about this right like, because if I'm wrong, I have to then like I can't do this again to her, you know. So and that was where like I was laying in bed, like I don't know if it took me, probably took me a while with the forty five minutes to actually fall asleep, Like I was just laying there just thinking. And then I woke up in the morning and I was like, Okay, I'm feeling it, you know. A gut feeling and let me just give it a little bit more time. But like I really just want to like make sure that again I make this decision, but I make it fully and I feel strongly about the decision I make, but also like I don't track this out like it was really uncomfortable. I mean, even like on this this interview, it's like I feel something in my stomach, you know, like I feel like this like nerve. And Rachel's always been super sweet and that's how I've come. A couple of times she throws some cuts at me on podcasts, we talk, we talk about it offline, and like, again, it's not anything major. Like I've always been grateful because like I can understand being like, dude, get your shit together, and like could you just figure it out quicker and like it just be a little like and it's like, yeah, no, that's fair, that's all fair. But we've had a lot of, you know, a few offline discussions on the phone, and like I think there is a mutual respect and I at least feel that. And I've always been really grateful that you know that you've you know, we can sit here and we can have these conversations and be cordial and we can also admit that like, yeah, I'm still working progress and I'm still learning, like I just I and I'm hoping about it, you know, and I mess up, But I mean I don't know. I guess that's just like we went on reality television and that's we found ourselves in the same place twice.

00:12:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will like to like to mention that this is technically you guys' first conversation since perfect match, like one on one, like publicly.

00:12:27
Speaker 3: Yes, we've talked to you on the phone, Yeah.

00:12:30
Speaker 2: We've spoken, but yeah, publicly, this is our first conversation like conversation together.

00:12:36
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean again, like every time I pop on here, it's one thing on a phone call, but when you see like each other's face, I just don't know. I don't know how you don't feel that those like emotions like it's not like they just like cease to exist. So yeah, and I think it's funny that you can make you can give me trouble about the whole gym thing. It's fair. Like again, I don't want to ever have like bad relationships with people like I can screw up, but I'm like, hey, as long as like we can admit, like I've done some wrong and I can grow from it, like hopefully we can all forgive each other. I mean, I don't like that I have technically some beef with another ax that like I never talked to that we're aware of, but like I don't like it. I don't like it deep that, Like I don't like the fact that like where did this? Like why can't we just be cool? You know, like why does it have to be all this thuff?

00:13:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, well Clayton, don't shry away now, like.

00:13:25
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, you say you don't like it, you keep getting yourself in these situations.

00:13:32
Speaker 3: Okay, well hold on, Gabby after my dancing and it was just like necessary because it was like Gabby, like I felt like, Gab, you had your own season, you had your own guys, Like why are you going like skipping them, like like you're going right at me and it's like I'm over here. Just like honestly, it was very vulnerable for me to dance, like I look, I'm not stupid. I know my dancing capacity, Like I'm a white dude trying to pick up hip hop. Like it was looking rough for a long while I just probably like in the last like you know, six months, started to get all said and having a little flow where it was like okay, wait, you can kind of show up now. But prior to that point, like it was very vulnerable, and I did really like I was getting bothered by a lot of the comments. But I kept telling myself, just keep posting, keep posting, because like, just keep pushing through this and like eventually, like you will end up being seen as a solid dancer, but you'll just or you'll find the confidence and like that's the biggest thing you want. So for her to like all of a sudden then draw intentional additional attention on me and was like, you know, he's basically he's bad at dancing. I was just like, Gabby, why, like I've already been fighting through this mountain of negativity and like then you just on top of me and I haven't even said your name and years That's where I was upset, and I was just like I have to respond and stand up for myself, Like I don't I need to, like I need to be able to just stand up and say something. And so I did, Like I thought I was fairly fair, like I don't think I was like going after her, you.

00:14:57
Speaker 5: Know, I know, I think, yeah, I would.

00:15:00
Speaker 1: I think obviously there's like two sides and two perspectives on the entire situation. But I will say, from the outside looking in, like obviously, if you understand or know context into why you got into dancing to begin with, I think that's very admirable, I will say, And I'll give you your flowers here, Clayton for that. And so I think a lot of people obviously it's just they're quick to like jump on something, quick to like pal onto people, and I think that's where we've kind of straight away in social media in general.

00:15:30
Speaker 4: It's just really rough and hard.

00:15:32
Speaker 1: So mad respect to you for that, but yeah, it was kind of interesting to see kind of like Gabby maybe throw that out and be like okay, like in my world, I'm like just let the man dance, let you know, mind your business type situation. But I do think like, yes, the bigger conversation was Okay, we probably shouldn't. I don't want to say bully, but yes, bully essentially, like you know, her remarks were not the nicest or probably not kind comments.

00:15:59
Speaker 3: Necessary, and like it's like it's not that big of a deal. And I'm like, but yeah, all about how the person you know perceives it right, So like for you to have been I have been, people have called me way worse. So I was like and like, yes, I'm not really that upset by it. It's more just the right. It's like if I let her walk all over me, then everyone else will too, you know. As I stand up for myself, people might be like, Okay, he's going to fire back, and and you know, and it and it did backfire a bit. I feel like, you know, didn't make her look the greatest. And I was just like just hopefully going forward, Gabby, like you just don't do that to somebody, Like just go after somebody, you know, because what if I went after you for you know, something equivalent, like it would well, But my whole thing is this. It's like, if you have a problem with me, then just like call me.

00:16:39
Speaker 4: Have you guys not talked ever?

00:16:41
Speaker 5: Like I don't think she cares.

00:16:43
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it is Clayton.

00:16:45
Speaker 4: I think it is.

00:16:46
Speaker 2: Fair to say though that Gabby does have the right and you, I think are in a lucky position where you do still have a friendship with Susie and me and you are on good terms. So but I think it is so fair for Gabby to not want to be a part of that and not want to call you. I mean, she is a dancer, so I feel like she might have just you know, Gabby, she makes fun of herself, she makes fun of everyone. I think it's started off like innocent, it did, you know obviously go really far between the both of you. But I guess the question I want to ask. It feels like something that's like a common thride with you is you don't like being misunderstood by the public, and you really feel the need to like defend yourself in these situations. Is that something you think.

00:17:32
Speaker 4: Is true.

00:17:34
Speaker 3: That statement you just made.

00:17:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I feel like you tend to like over explain a little bit because you don't like feeling misunderstood and it can kind of get you into posisions.

00:17:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean absolutely, I feel like I'm very misunderstood. I mean I I and where this comes from is just what I've read online, you know, the feedback book dms, the blogs, you know, saying he's people assume that I've always been this superstar athlete that got all the girls and it's like I used to be very small. I was bullied, I was friend zoned by girls, I was called big brother. I was a terrible athlete, you know, And so like for me, it's like you're judging me based on what I look like today, and you're treating me like I've been that stereotypical douchebag that like that just has always gotten his way and it couldn't be for the truth. So like my ego does get very upset and agitated with the fact that like people throw that on me and like he's just another six foot five white guy that's full of himself, that's always had everything given to him. And it's like, no, I've worked really hard to acquire what I have. Like everything I've gotten has all been through hard work, and I feel like it goes unacknowledged. And so that part of it. Yes, I have an inflamed ego at times where I'm like, I'm so sick of you all trying to discredit the hard work that I've put in and you're trying to say that I'm this when I'm not, Like I would just see me as I am. But it doesn't seem like any of you want to see me as I am. You want to place upon my shoulders what you want me to be, which I feel is unfair. I I really I don't. I don't believe at all I'm anywhere near that you know, cocky, full of himself, d bag that has you know, just always gotten his way, Like my life perception is completely different. So and I'm trying to inspire people to be like, hey, you can build this too. If you're not happy with your life, you can also acquire these things through hard work and determination. Like that's the message I'm trying to send. And it just it really feels like it's just blocked left and right every everywhere I go. I will so I will say, I feel like I've explained myself less recently, Like I'm not going on as much a podcast to try to explain who I am anymore. But yeah, certainly you're you're you're you're right with that being. Something that I've been on a mission to try to do for so long is try to get people to see me for what I believe I am, which is I don't feel as an alignment with what the perception has perceived or the public has perceived me in the past, like I'm not a saint. I've tried to tell people that from the jump, Like I'm like, i am not a saint. Like that's why this podcast I have in a released right now. I told the producers, I said, portray me as I am. Like, the problemse is when you try to make me seem like I'm this saint, like just good old Missouri boy, which I'm like, yeah, I'm got good Missouri roots, but like I'm also.

00:20:13
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you're a bad boy too.

00:20:16
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm a bad boy would say that, but I mean, I don't know. I guess it defends your ass, but like, I'm just not a saint. It felt to me I was getting death threats. I was getting people saying worst Bachelor whatever, you know, yeah, trashing me left and right wherever they could. The follow up season with you and you and Gabby Rachel, like, well.

00:20:32
Speaker 2: The same thing happened to me.

00:20:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:20:35
Speaker 1: I think there's like, yeah, you guys, like the entire like universe of just being a lead in itself, but going on reality TV, it's like, again not to excuse it, and it's not something that we obviously have to be okay with but it is there's a level of or an expectation in Rachel. You mentioned this last week on our recording with Rachel Lindsay, is that we then step into this zone or you know, where we are. Everything that we do has to be without flaw, Like we don't even get the grace to make an air or mistake, which is the reality. And anyone who watches the show, if they were to step in our positions, they would so so quickly learn that it is impossible to literally do this without making a mistake.

00:21:19
Speaker 5: Even people who are deemed.

00:21:20
Speaker 1: Perfect, their errors are their trust and believe.

00:21:25
Speaker 3: Like I, there was a safe path when I was the Bachelor for me to be able to not be seen as a bad guy, like and I chose not to take that. And it was like, you know, I'm gonna go follow my heart and I'm going to push through this. But there was a point at which I didn't have to, you know, like I could have just went a different direction and stayed away from any type of like massive blow up. I mean for the most part, you know, our season that we were on together, Rachel and I like it was. I would say it's pretty boring, Like overall, it was tracking towards boring, like boring typical love story, and like that's what happens is sleaves are like, hey, if I'm supposed to lock in with one person and then I'll be given you know this great at it because like if I stay away from the drama and I lock in with one person, Everyone's like, oh, I gets such an incredible love story. I'll be honest.

00:22:11
Speaker 2: We had some pretty good villains, Clayton. I don't know if that's true. I lived in that house well, and you kept those villains around for a while.

00:22:19
Speaker 4: Y'all season was crazy.

00:22:20
Speaker 3: True. Yeah, I'm not going to like why they were kept long. You can only say so much so.

00:22:27
Speaker 2: We're allowed to talk about it now.

00:22:29
Speaker 3: So I don't know. I don't trust that we won't.

00:22:31
Speaker 4: We won't spend time talking about that today. What we're going to do. I I do appreciate you, Clayton.

00:22:36
Speaker 1: Obviously you're always so open, But I think the real reason is that I want to dive in and learn so much more about your podcast. I was very fortunate to listen to two episodes and it's been amazing. Obviously, I know you've had a crazy past a few years of months so I would love to know, and you can kind of just take us through, like your podcast, what's it about?

00:23:00
Speaker 5: You know, what was that like? Building it up?

00:23:03
Speaker 4: Tell us everything?

00:23:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so look like the podcasts, basically it's all centered around me in a paternity scandal that ended up also involving multiple other victims. And this is a now ten I call like a ten year operation that this woman has been conducting with an with involvement from her family. So it's a family or ordeal that they have orchestrated over the years to try to destroy men and their reputation of men that don't want to be with her. So she, you know, with a lack of self love, tries to attack and destroy the man to make you know, him feel as poorly as she does. That's my belief is why she as far as why she does it. But like this podcast basically takes you through the entire three years that I have been spending fighting this woman. So it takes you to the very beginning, and then it takes you through all the emails, the text messages, you know, the courts, appearances, and it takes you all the way through that to where we get to at the end of the podcast, which will lead up right into the end of July, which is when she is facing fourteen felony charges, so she faces trial at the end of July. Here, So to me, this is a bridge, Like this podcast really, what it's meant to do is to keep the fire hot so that we don't lose momentum going into this court case, because she would offer an appeal and I personally don't feel like it was enough to hold her accountable. And to me, if she gets off, she'll do it again, if she gets a slap on the wrist. So really this is just one issue. Like I'm fortunate because I have, you know, privilege to be a former lead of a show, so like that's probably why that's actually exactly why I got all the attention it got in the first place. These other men are private figures. They didn't get that attention, so they didn't have help and support like what I've been able to pull in. So you know, really we're just now just account of trying to band together and get accountability to be had. So that's what this podcast really is, is just a bridge into that final you know hearing on the you know late July to hopefully get her locked up. That's what we're shooting for.

00:25:16
Speaker 2: I was going to ask, what is your ideal outcome for the situation? You want her in prison?

00:25:22
Speaker 3: Fell in with five to ten years? Yeah, that would be like my you know, hope, and it's I don't think it's unwarranted. I know some people have said, like, oh, well, she didn't kill anybody, she said that herself, but I don't. I don't like that excuse. I think she really severely plagued my mental health and the mental health of the other men. And while none of us have you know, taken our lives like we got too points where we were you know, very dark thoughts. And I'm like, you know, really, if it was up to her, she wouldn't have cared. And it was our decision to make whether we just you know, we stayed or went. And so I'm like, she might as well have had tried to take us out. So I don't take lightly. I don't take mental health lightly. I'm like, look, I think she deserves every bit of time behind bars. She still admits that, you know, she's still finding it. She's she's still saying she's not guilty, So she hasn't had any accountability from the get go, So it's like the only thing we can do then is just like, you know, lock her up and then hopefully in that isolation, she'll you know, mentally break down and start to unpack what is so deeply rooted within her.

00:26:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you mind me asking how is your mental health? Like I feel like in the present day after I mean, you're still kind of obviously involved and it's still ongoing, but how do you feel like it's upheld itself?

00:26:38
Speaker 3: Yeah? I was, Uh, I was just on like chatgyby two this morning actually, because like I've gotten I've been very much tested, like this year in twenty twenty six with just like life things with work, family, things here and there, and like and just close friends. It's like there's been a lot of like issues popping up that have all hit it once and like so for me, it's just been a you know time of like a lot of like I have to have really great resiliency and you know, but also I'm like, hey, look like I'm no longer trying to really prove myself. Like I'm not spending as much as you're trying to prove myself. I'm just you know, putting myself out there as I am, but like now that I am not a people pleaser anymore, because I would say I've probably rid of myself of that. I'm like, what am I? What's driving me? If it's not me trying to prove my worth, then like driving me. So I say all that to say, like, I had a very deep like thought process this morning, so it's fresh on my mind. But this is fine. It's just like I'm in this like reflective stage of my life where I'm like if I'm not, if if the motivation to prove my worth is not the main driving driver, than what is? And I'm in this like weird in between stage where it's like, well I don't have anything to prove, so why do I need to like you know, show up and try to you know, be great today? And it's like, well want two. But all that to say like there's always something to spin in my head. Yeah, so thanks for asking, but like yeah, it's just like think, look I have like everything is great, I mean overall, like every it's all perspective, Like I'm just I'm just like I really feel like I went most of my life with my brain switched off. No like emotions were ever really discussed or thought about. Like I didn't really feel like I didn't really know what emotions I was feeling. I was just like existing and then all of a sudden, like I'll never forget, I said in college to one of my exes, she said she was having an anxiety attack. I said why, I said, well, why don't you just like not think about it? Like that's how ignorant I was to emotions. That to her place, I was like, well, I just don't think about it, you know that that and that's why I don't get anxiety. I said that serious to I guess how it works. But like that was ignorant I was to emotions and regulation. So like I'm still like, okay from that point removed, I don't know, seven years and it's like, you know, meanwhile, women are just emotional, you know, like they're they're they're very like emotionally regulated, and they they're they mature faster. So I feel like I'm playing catch up. I'm like I'm a guy absent from doing this, so now I'm just trying to like get to a place where I can be caught up and act my age.

00:29:03
Speaker 2: Yeah or little really maybe yeah, yeah, I mean I listened to both the episodes. I thought the narrator, I think she does like a really awesome job at telling the story. How did you get approached toward this? Was it you that was seeking out a platform? No?

00:29:19
Speaker 3: I I had like companies keep reaching out time. I probably five companies that reached out, and probably three of them I was I said no to because I just didn't think the production quality was there, but there was interest. People were like, hey, we want to really tell you a story. We think this is this this needs to be heard. And and so then when they reached out, I did some background on like what they had, you know, created prior, and I was like, this is actually like to the level that I would want it to be told at. Like I don't want to just like do podcasts to do a podcast. I want to be able to like put something out there that is impactful and that will make a difference, and we'll share, you know, the story and the way that it needs to be told. And Stephanie has become a close, you know, good friend of mine. Now she's listening to me talk so much that like I've gotten tired of talking to her, only because I'm tired of hearing. But she's like, hey, like she listens to all of it. She's a great listener. And I was like, this is the right person. Like it's a lot of information. So yeah, it just happened to kind of manifest and I was I didn't want to do the podcast at first. I only wanted to like I was like, I'm only doing this if it's documentary. But then they convinced me, and you know, and I'm glad I did it. Like at this point, it's been so cool to see the other victims, how like hope has like come back into them, like they they lost it for a long period of time, and so I've seen the strength come back and it's just like, wow, this has become bigger than me. Not to mention like the twenty to thirty you know dms. I've gotten of men or women that know, like their brother that's went through something similar. It's like, Okay, this is actually you know, inspiring and giving people hope. Like there's something bigger here. So if we platform it to a higher degree, maybe this, you know, impacts even more people.

00:30:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, I noticed and I was listening that Susie was interview has she been supportive during all this, or what's her role been in all this?

00:31:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was. She was like in the now, I was saying in the mix of it, like I I think I kind of talked about this in the podcast where I've said another podcast, I had seen Susie like a week and a half prior to me actually like hooking up with this Laura girl.

00:31:22
Speaker 4: Wow.

00:31:22
Speaker 3: So I was really really bothered by Like when I met up with Susie, like a lot of the old emotions came back and it was like maybe we should try this again, and like it was a lot of those feelings, and so I ended up, you know, getting like I went home and I was like using marijuana heavily to like cope because I was just trying to numb myself because I just I felt overwhelmed with emotion and it was just I was like, I just need to like cut this feeling out. I can't handle this with sober mind. So as like it started to begin, like I had just seen her, so we were already kind of like just chatting a little bit, and I shared this with her and and so then she was just kind of like in the background, you know, just like provided me like, well, hey, I support you and whatever I can do to help. So she was. She was there at like the beginning of it, and and that's why, you know, they approached her because I had brought up I was like, yeah, the reason why I even like was under the influence of marijuana that night and decided to engage with this Laura girl was because like I was like medicating myself with marijuana, like just trying to cope with the emotions that were coming up from like the previous weekend when I was oh, yeah, that's how that came about.

00:32:33
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.

00:32:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is just such a crazy story. I mean, I feel like a lot of people do know about it, but there's a huge majority that don't. What's the message that you want to get out like with this podcast?

00:32:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a couple of things. I think the two would be, you know, fight for yourself, because no one will fight as hard as you do. I mean I think, yeah, like you know, I decided to when she went public, I decided to throw a microscope on it, and I was like, you know, meg to grab the megaphone. I was like, hey, if we're going to do this, like like I got nothing to hide, guys, So like I'm going to fight for justice, and I'm going to bring you all along, like I'm not going to be ashamed of what you know I've done. And you know, I'm just going to defend myself because if I don't do it, no one is and she'll take advantage of me. So I would say, you know, to stand up, like if you feel like you've been wrong, like fighting for yourself. And then also just I hope this inspires people or just like shows them the power of of you know, many so the power of a community. I mean, this wouldn't be a podcast. You know, I wouldn't have gotten legal representation, and this wouldn't have made it as far as it has if it wasn't for this community that's you know, that has revolved around me and the other men and you know has paid legal fees at times for us and for the end to get and push this along and uncovered new information. It really shows like the power of a community. So you know, if you think like no one's going to, you know, support me, you don't know obviously until you speak up. And when I I had no idea that this magnitude of a community would be created, so hopefully it gets other people to be like, hey, maybe if I speak up, I'll have some support there that can help me as well. For sure.

00:34:12
Speaker 1: No, I mean I just cannot imagine. I really can't, Like I know, it is really so like even just like I was telling Rachel, like listening to your first two episodes, like I've followed some majority of the case, but just like the intricate details, it's just so mind blowing. And I obviously, like I commend you for even just having the courage to speak out about this, but I know, obviously there's like a deeper intention in reason, which I know for a fact, like you said, you are helping so many other people who find them themselves unfortunately in these situations. But we are obviously reading for you, Clayton, like we are happy to have you and talk about this anytime, But before we go, I do want to end episode with something super super fun, a little more light hearted. This is a crazy question I'm gonna ask you, but I need your full trance.

00:35:09
Speaker 5: No, don't get scared, relax, it's not I'm not scared.

00:35:12
Speaker 2: I'm not.

00:35:14
Speaker 1: He said.

00:35:15
Speaker 3: This is like the craziest cause, like of everything we've already said.

00:35:17
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just answer, Yeah, I'm just curious where your answer is going to be. Okay, so we're gonna do a little would you rather so? But only you only get two options. Okay, get casted on Dancing with the Stars, but unfortunately you're eliminated the very first week. Or go get cast on Taylor Frankie Pause Bachelorette season, but she says no to your proposal at the very end, So you're one of the final two.

00:35:48
Speaker 2: The not.

00:35:52
Speaker 3: I said if I said if I went on Dancing with the Stars ever, I was like, I just would not want to get sent home night one. That's exactly the same concern I had when I went on the Bachorette. I was like, I don't want to get sent whole night one. But I mean it's kind of like, it's kind of they're both.

00:36:10
Speaker 4: They're both hard.

00:36:12
Speaker 1: Technically, if you were a final two, that means you're you're I would hope that you're invested at that point.

00:36:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess see, I can't like overanalyze this whole thing. I was like, yeah, obviously I would be into her at that point. Taylor, I would have been like, oh, I really like this girl, right, Mmm, that's hard. I don't know, you know, I I you not.

00:36:35
Speaker 2: Picking Dancing that the Stars immediately is throwing.

00:36:37
Speaker 4: Me off.

00:36:40
Speaker 2: Because that's such an honor.

00:36:42
Speaker 4: I think.

00:36:44
Speaker 3: That was my first thought. But then I was like starting to overthinking. I was like, well, to be honest with you, like, I'm not trying to say anything here, and she's I'm probably not her type, but like Taylor Frank Paul is just not my type. So I was like, I wouldn't I wouldn't make it to the final too, so that's not really realistic. But if I did, like because.

00:36:58
Speaker 4: I might be her type, yeah, you never know.

00:37:01
Speaker 3: But I also wouldn't stick it out just to stick it out all the way till the end. Yeah, that's just not I don't. I wouldn't care to do that. So yeah, I guess it would be Dance with the Stars. I mean, as long as I get that initial paycheck, we're good.

00:37:13
Speaker 1: And listen, they always bring back the entire cast at the finale, so you will get more than one opportunity to dance and sharecase you're skinned.

00:37:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I guess that would be the simple answer.

00:37:26
Speaker 4: And no, okay, yeah, I get that.

00:37:28
Speaker 5: I think I was expecting that answer out of you mean too.

00:37:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well that was fun, guys. I uh yeah, thanks. I I appreciate you obviously, just give me a platform to talk about this. And it's always yeah, like you guys have been both super great. Obviously, Charity, I got to talk to you. I think the first time was it was a grand AFR. That was the first.

00:37:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was AFR.

00:37:49
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And it's awesome you and a dot and like how great things are going from what I can see, you guys are just super sweet. So it's like, obviously this process, you know, does work very well, and it's like cool to see you guys going strong and then you know, then Rachel and.

00:38:05
Speaker 2: I will.

00:38:07
Speaker 3: Find our well. Rachel, you actually, last I heard little Bertie, you were at least at one point talking to somebody.

00:38:16
Speaker 4: Please.

00:38:17
Speaker 2: I can't even get into that.

00:38:20
Speaker 4: God, thank you are dropping pause? Are we dropping gyms right now?

00:38:25
Speaker 3: Yours?

00:38:26
Speaker 2: I mean we're not, we're cutting this.

00:38:30
Speaker 3: I was to say Gabby's name earlier, so I'm not afraid. I'll just I'll also say this other person.

00:38:34
Speaker 4: Okay, they're gonna cut it out. This is my podcast.

00:38:38
Speaker 5: Bye, Clayton, here we go.

00:38:41
Speaker 1: You know we're gonna leave things as they are, in a good standing because I just love peace and happiness for all parties involved. So with that being said, thank you Clayton again. We appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you and your vulnerability and your courage to speak out on all things. But truly, I think it's really important, and as you know, I'm a huge advocate for mental health, so I really do look up to you for that and respect you for that.

00:39:09
Speaker 4: But that's all that we're going to talk about on today's episode.

00:39:13
Speaker 5: But we would love to have you back anytime.

00:39:15
Speaker 4: Please feel free to come.

00:39:17
Speaker 5: But yeah, with that being said, thank you so much for coming on.

00:39:20
Speaker 4: And that's it.

00:39:22
Speaker 5: Rachel, anything you want to add to that.

00:39:24
Speaker 2: No, thank you Clayton for coming on. I'm sure it was not easy to log on and have to face me and Charity's questions, but you did amazing and we look forward to listening to the rest of the podcast. Itich I'm hooked already, so everyone go listen to that if you get the chance, and thank you again for coming on. And you guys make sure to like and subscribe. We'll have new episodes soon and we don't have an ending yet. If you have any ideas, lay end next time.

00:39:49
Speaker 4: Bye, bye,