Saints-Bucs MNF Recap

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Speaker 1: Second of the pump breaking the end of the near side. Hit him take some touchdown, Saks. It's a forty four yard penalty. Brady and John touchdown Bucks. It's third down underneath and touchdown. Like tight game point to Tom. If I didn't see it, I wouldn't believe it. Tom Brady did it again. After fifty five of the most miserable minutes of his career, Tom Brady led a comeback from sixteen to three down in the final five minutes to lead the Buccaneers to a seventeen sixteen win. It's gonna go down. Is the biggest game in the NFC South all season long. I am Greg Rosenthal. I'm joined here by Justin Graver. We had a last minute cancelation here in terms of a guest, and uh, it's all coming up Tom Brady, and it's all coming up Grave Digger, no one. I'd rather spend the next half hour with talking about a classic game. I thought we were gonna have one podcast, Justin. I thought it was gonna be one sort of podcast, and then now it's a completely different podcast. I know we're sitting there towards the end of the fourth quarter thinking all right, this is just gonna wind down. We are gathering our thoughts about talking about how the Saints were able to stifle the Buccaneers offense, and then bang, Tom Brady leads two touchdown drives out of nowhere, And you know, there's almost uh inclination to think it's Tom Brady, like, of course that happened, Like of course he did that, and of course he got every break along the way for it to happen. And and there there's part to be that understands that we can go through how that all happened. But no one was thinking this was gonna happen at sixteen to three. Even the darkest of dark Saints fans, we're not thinking that this could happen. This was as thorough and depressing a beat down of this book's offense as we've seen all year, and we've seen a lot of them. Next Gen stats UH marks it as the fourth most improbable comeback of the Next Gen Stats era that since two thousand. In sixteen, when the Bucks were trailing sixteen to three with five thirty four left in the game, they had a point seven percent chance of winning. So let's let's start at the end. Let's start on that beautiful route by Rashade White. Rashade White, who I wish was in at the goal line early in the game when they get it, gave it to old Leonard four net. Who are our buddy Chris Wessling. I'm in the Chris Westling podcast studio. You know used to call what like the tank you know, it was like a tanker trying to make a turn and he could battleship Lenny. That's it. My brain is just old and terrible. It's decayne like Tom Brady is still doing well and I am not at my age. Uh. Rashad White makes such a great angle route where you pivot inside and then break outside, and Tom Brady had just enough subtle, uh movement in the pocket I think to avoid it was Cam Jordan's rushing on that play. And that's the type of play that Tom Brady has done so well, which is so subtle for so long, just making that slight move waiting a half beat later and having a running back who can make a great route like that that Kevin Fox back in the day, Shane Vereen, James White and uh he overcame Tom Brady a holding call just a few plays before by Donovan Smith that I thought was gonna be the final thing that ended up knocking the Bucks out, a mistake that moved them back to the sixteen yard line, but a couple plays later, he gets it right back to the sixth and he trusts the rookie in a big spot, and he's just like as happy as you'd ever want to see Tom Brady. Justin Graaver at this point, are you annoyed by seeing tom Brady this happy in big moments. I've never been a tom Brady hayter. I like to appreciate the greatness and you know, I think we need to appreciate it as long as it's still here because by next season, we may never see Tom Brady jumping around on the field celebrating again. If he retires at the end of this year, he's not going anywhere. But no, I like seeing tom Brady celebrate, especially when he's not playing against my team. Right. I was thinking, maybe kind of as a Titans fan, a f C fan over the years, like him leaving the field, and he said if yeah, you know he was caught on camera, you know, using the effort and Tristan Worth's who's out of this game? With an injury catches Tom Brady, who jumps into his arms. Made me think, hey, Tristan, we're might be back next week. So that right, and he might be uh back, but also got me thinking of, like, you know, tom Brady is having fun in these moments, and he's clearly not having much fun the rest of the game and for much of this season, because it's the worst team he's been on of his whole career. That that he's been the starter, he's gonna set his career high for losses of the teams he started. Most likely he would have tied it if they lost this game. But he's had these moments. He had this moment against the Rams, he had another crazy now he has this crazy one, and it got me thinking like isn't that worth it? Like what is the point of continuing to play? I'm not saying having family troubles is worth it, but the the idea of playing football at all? Isn't this the whole point? Like do you do? You have to know that your team is a great team and potentially can win the Super Bowl justin for it to have meaning, because this is not a great Bucks team. It's it's not even a good Bucks team. I keep thinking maybe they can improve at some point and become a good Bucks team. But at a certain point, I've I've I've lost hope. Certainly during this game, I've lost hope. And so they're just like searching for these moments and he finds them. And to me, that's that kind of is what it's about, right I I have a feeling, he he feels that. Ways you're just chasing that feeling and you get it and it's fleeting, you can't hold onto it, but you got it for tonight, and you you got it for the next couple of days. You certainly got it, uh, in that moment on the field, and you're chasing it to have it a few more times this season, And like, I think that has to be enough. You only only one team wins the Super Bowl, right, so every other team are they miserable when the season ends? Do they did? It was at all a waste of time? No? They have to be playing for those moments, because that's probably I'm assuming why all these guys love playing football so much. Well, I think people love football and we love covering it for many different reasons, and everyone's different. But I think when it's someone like Brady who is different than other players. I've heard Dominique Foxworth talking about this on on BEAUMONTI Jones podcast, like when people ask him what what Brady's thinking in certain moments or he's like, how like there are guys like that are different, Like, yes, you have to be wired a certain way to become a great professional athlete. But the guys like a ray Lewis or Tom Brady or any Jerry Rice all time great that you want to think they're they're they're even at a different level. And I think about Bill Belichick when he's asked about football, and he's so gruff, but he just he says he loves every single aspect of it and and it comes out in strange ways. But I think the only thing, the most satisfying thing, like for Tom Brady is those moments. And I think a game like this, as as corny as I'm making it sound, I think makes it all worth it, which is crazy because he's never looked older in a game that he did for this game for fifty five minutes. And that's the crazy thing about football is that none of that matters. Our whole podcast was blown up, um and his whole experience of the night was blown up. I mean, as much as I want to crush the Saints coaching staff and point out all the things that they did wrong and that went wrong for the Saints, and we will. They also had only given up three points in eight drives until those last two drives, So they gave up three points and eight drives and then gave up fourteen points in five minutes. One of those drives was a ninety one yard two minute drive. I think it was reasonable to expect, if you're Dennis Allen, that that wouldn't happen. I think it was reasonable to expect as fans watching this game that like, we weren't gonna see any Tom Brady magic, because there was nothing in early in this game, for for three and a half quarters, justin that would have told us that this could possibly happen. So you have to give some credit to the Buccaneers just for doing it, and you have to give some agency to the Saints defense for for giving up the lead. And it's not all just the coaches. Well, for the first fifty four minutes and thirty nine seconds of this game, the Bucks totaled a hundred ninety six yards, and in the last five one they totaled a hundred and fifty four yards, So nearly their entire first fifty five minute output they matched on the last two drives. I mean, they had that opening drive that went sixteen plays, seventy two yards installed in the red zone, and then they didn't move the ball into scoring position again the rest of the game. They were almost there when they had somebody fumbled lost the ball. Was that white, right, But even that was on a third down where they would have been punting too. That that first drive, let's let's get to their quickly before backing up and talking about the Saints mistakes. That first drive was indicative to me the entire Buck season. Sixteen plays, eight minutes taken off the clock, and they end up getting three points they get they have to work so hard for points. This is a station to station offense. They haven't been able to hit the big plays. The biggest play tonight was twenty two yards to Mike Evans, and even that was in the in the comeback at the end. For a while, twelve yards was their biggest play. But they slowly moved the ball down the field and then they get it to the five yard line and at that point one yard run by four net, one yard passed to Godwin, and then a great play call where they get the ball out to four net on the edge and Julio Jones and Godwin are blocking their asses off, have perfect blocks, and all Lenny has to do is get to the edge and he has plenty of time to do it or make a guy missing Marcus May and he can't do it and and gets taken down and they settle for three. And that, to me, has been what the Buccaneers have been, except for in these light situations against the Rams and the Saints in these two games. That's kind of who they are at some point. I'm not expecting that to change and I and I feel like that's gonna be there kryptonite ultimately because it's a good enough defense. Uh. But they somehow still have Tom Brady who has been in so many situations and configure things out at the end even if you can't figure it out for the entire rest of the game. Do you think that Brady's accuracy is trending downward in this season or in this game. There was a few moments in this game and even on that Leonard four net one yard catch that he couldn't get in the end zone on I think Aikman said, Tom's got to put that out there a little more so he can kind of catch and run. And there was a few times throughout the game where it felt like his ball placement just wasn't what we're used to with Tom Brady. But I'm curious what you saw as a former QB index writer and a QB evaluator, as if you're really buttering me up. The Graver Rosenthal alliance, uh is strong, I'm i and as an inveterate Tom Brady watcher, I mean I've tried to watch every throw of his career, I guess, And yeah, his accuracy is worse this year, and you saw it tonight, and I think that's where his age is showing up a little bit. People talk about his movement, I mean he can never move, and yes, he's even more wary of getting hit now than ever before, and getting rid of the ball quicker than ever before. And he's not trusting that offensive line, which was missing Tristan worse more than ever before. But I think it's just he misses more throws, especially down the field, uh, and Troy is trying to say maybe it's a timing thing that Evans and Julio aren't as fast as Tom Brady is expecting it to be. But you see it on some of the shorter routes. Even in that final game winning drive he had two straight throws to at and which not about the speed of the receiver where he's not. So I think what's frustrating for Brady is he's still got the mental side of it, obviously, and that that's as good or better than ever. He's still got the arms rang and he's still like a physically strong human, you know, like that actually hasn't gone. He's his heater. It seems as good as that hasn't declined, and he can throw the ball a long way. So it's not a Drew Breeze or Matt Ryan situation either. It's just that it's not as consistent. And that reminds me of every sport you can if you're a great veteran, you can call upon your greatness play at a time, quarter at a time, game at a time here there, but the consistency to do it like repeatedly isn't there. And I think you can see it on his face. He's just so frustrated. Doesn't it seem miserable to be a Buck in the year this year? Like, especially on offense, it just seems like they're not having any fun. It just looks so hard. Gaining two yards looks difficult for this offense until the last right. And I know we keep having to say that, but I think it's okay to talk about the rest of the game to the crowd. Booze him going into halftime. Uh. Todd Bowles is punting at every single opportunity, and the way the game ended, UH, you could say rewarded his decision to punt. It was on fourth and ten late in the game when Tom Brady tried to stage his own mutiny and pushed the UH punting team back to the sidelines. Uh. And then there was a break and play, and then because of an injury, and then Todd Bowles had time to think about it and said, like, no, I'm the boss of this team, We're gonna punt it. It was an amazing sequence where I think if Cam Jordan didn't go down with an injury in that spot, they would have actually gone for it. That one didn't bother me as much as much, and it did bother me as the possession before where they punted on the Saints forty yard line in the fourth quarter down sixteen to three. And I know the Bucks won this game, but to me, that's that's why Todd Bowles and thinking about the game in such a defensive way, in a conservative way, or just frustrating and that you can say that the result makes him right. No, I don't care. The process was wrong and the process was wrong on the other side. To give me your favorite, um Dennis Allen moment from this game, putting you on the spot or just decision or anything that the Saints. There's two that stand out because they're almost the exact same situation. Fourth and two from the Bucks eleven fourth and two from the Bucks what three yard line? And one on the three? Yeah, and they kick field goals on both of those. The one on the three is stupid, but is it? I feel like the other one was the worst decision because it was later in the game and you have the chance to ice it. Like they're both bad decisions in my opinion, but I feel like the later one is like you just need two yards and the game is essentially over. Okay, so I'm glad you brought those up. Dennis Salon goes for a field goal. Yeah, at it wasn't quite fourth and goal, but it was like two and a half basically from the three kicks a field goal there. At that point, they're up ten three, and he's thinking, well, I'm gonna make this a two score game. It's a low scoring game. We just had the ball forever. I'm gonna trust my defense. I I think that one is even worse because you're closer to the touchdown. The next one it's it's at the eleven yard line where they choose to go for it. You could argue that that's worse because all it's doing is making it a thirteen point games. It's still two touchdowns. And and the thing about it is defensive coaches think like you're there, how like they're trying to protect their defense and get points and we're gonna get stops, and so all we gotta do is keep getting points. If you really trusted your defense, just go for it. To me, going for it is trusting your defense more. I think go for on the fourth and three because it's hard to get to the three yard line and it's hard to score in this game. And I trust my defense so much that you're gonna be on the three yard line and you gotta score touchdowns. And here's the thing, Trusting your defense very rarely works. Look what happened in this game. If they had gone for either one of those, they would have been up and made it. Then they could have been up by more than two touchdowns and they win. They trusted their defense, and ultimately it's two. Even when you're playing a forty five year old Brady, trusting your defense doesn't normally work. And it's funny because in this game, there there was so much like punt to win. As Patrick Claiban put it on Twitter, Brian Dable tried to do it. It was like an amazing week for punt to win. Todd Bowles did the same thing. Uh you know, he punted when he was on the Saints forty yard line, as we pointed out, and in that situation, defensive coaches always think it's gonna be like a perfect but and you're gonna pin him back. But instead he punted it straight into the ends own and the Saints were then past the forty yard line, had regained that field position that you thought was so valuable, Like four plays later after a nice throw by Andy Dalton to Olavy. I I felt weird in this game because obviously I love Brady in general, uh, but just didn't feel like they deserved to win this game. I picked the Bucks to win this game. I usually roote for my picks too, but it just didn't feel like they deserve to win this game. And I have a soft spot for the Saint, So either way, it's I just felt bad for Andy Dalton's the point I'm getting to Andy Dalton played well in this game. This was a pretty classic Andy Dalton game, nine and a touchdown. His three best throws of the night were dropped. O Lovey dropped one that was in the red zone that would have set them up in the first half to try to go in and score. They end up getting nothing out of that. Was it Landry that dropped the other big path us that would have been a touchdown in the first half, So they end up settling for three beautiful throw and then finally the play that people will remember. Taysom Hill dropped the pass with just over five minutes left on third or rather just over two and a half minutes left on third in seventeen. I couldn't believe they dropped back to pass in that spot. And then I really couldn't believe the red Rifle had the guts to make that throw into in between three players, a whole shot and he killed it. It It was a perfect throw. It was right in Taysom Hill's hands. Uh that that would have won the game. I didn't. I did not mind that play because it was you're letting your best player try to make a play. Their best player was Andy Dalton and there are other best players Taysom Hill. Um. Yeah, I mean you almost have to credit like we want to give Brady all this credit for they come back. But if Karl Nassey doesn't sack Andy Dalton on second down and Kean O'Neill doesn't put his helmet right in the chest of Taysom Hill where the ball is, then Tom Burdy doesn't have a chance to come back. Was it Nassi who got that sack right before? Wow? Because he also had the deflection. He had a monster last five minutes for a team that has been searching for a pass rusher, and he's he's playing Morse since Shack Barrett got hurt. Uh, great call there. I didn't even realize that that was him, that play by Keian O'Neil. Yes, you don't normally trust Taysom Hill as a receiver. He did have a thirty yard touchdown in this game where he was basically left wide open by Keian O'Neil. He had more yards in this game, receiving thirty five than he had all season coming into the game. He had thirty one coming into the game. Uh. But I don't hate that play call there. I I do hate what started this whole comeback. Do you know what play I'm going to talk about because this is act I believe as much as that third and seventeen people are going to remember for stopping the clock and being so aggressive, there was a very strange play not too long before that was routine and the Saints would have won the game if it hadn't happened. This is a tough quiz mark ingram going out of bounds. That's it. See, that's the thing, like when people get mad about Tom Brady gets so much luck, Like those are the types of plays they remember. Andy Dalton six minutes, eleven seconds to left left throws on second and Hey, I like that they were staying aggressive there. They're up sixteen to three. They shouldn't be that worried. And it's a it's a quick pass to a running back mark Ingram who's getting run down by I think it was Devin White just jogs out of bounds. And it's not about stopping the clock. The clock doesn't stop, by the way, before five minutes. If I could just teach Twitter one thing, because it's a lot of really great professionals out there that do this, the clock doesn't stop when you go out of bounds until there's five minutes left. People still really struggle with that. They always like, how go do you stop the clock? Like minutes left, ten minutes left? Every on National reporters like really experienced people like, let's get this right. All mark Ingram had to do was go get that first down and I think the game's over and he just ran out of bounds. And then they had a curious play call to to pass it on third and one right after that to callaway they don't complete it. I hate not running there on third and one in general, I don't love passing on third and one. I know they were struggling to run all night. But when the clock is such a big factor in that spot, the combined advantage of you're more likely to get it running the ball anyways, and you would have drained thirty more seconds on off the clock. Worst case scenario, that was a really bad play call and that too placed sequence actually set everything up. Put Taysom Hill in and QB sneak it with him or let him do his stupid power thing that he has taken. How many times have they had like a third or fourth and one or Taysom Hill's run the QB power and taking it forty yards for a touchdown. You know, it does feel like Taysom Hill plays uh work most of the time, although he only went for ten yards here rushing wow um quickly. Just some other just little thoughts on this game. Alvin Kamer cannot get a going running the ball. I mean Cam Jordan's and Lavonte David if you turn on any Saints Bucks game for the last ten years, have been like the two best defensive players in the mc SO South. It's kind of amazing. Give them some love. Uh The Bucks defense has been good all year like that they kept him in this game and then finally I think the reason I was a little disappointed to by the ending of this game, and why I know Mark was on on our text thread. I wanted some NFC South chaos, like explain what you would have been looking for, you know, the rest of the season and in the NFC South that they had lost this game, or the repercussions of this game. It was a huge game. Yeah, it would have been cool to see, like the Falcons have a chance with a losing record to try to make some noise. But I guess at this point the Buccaneers are gonna go into Dallas and get their butts kicked in the first round of the playoffs most likely. So this this puts the Bucks at six and six. If they had lost this game, the Saints would have had five wins, the Bucks would have had five wins, the Falcons would have had five wins, and the Panthers would have had four wins. And yes, it would be more as ugly and annoying as this division is, every team looks the exact same by the way they all play the same way. None of them are good. They at least would have been ugly compelling or ugly um important down the stretch because all their games would have kept mattering. Because if you look at the Bucks schedule the next couple of weeks, they have the forty Niners next week. I know it's brock Purty, but the Bucks are underdogs in that game, even with brock Purty. Uh then they have the Bengals. That's a loss. If they had lost this game, justin I think they would have been staring at five and nine. I really think the Panthers are probably playing the best in this division. But you could easily make the case of any of those four teams making it, and I don't. I don't think they're quite out of it yet. The Falcon they're not. But it's a little harder for the Panthers now to make up two wins over the rest of the season. The Saints would have, actually, who have a pretty forgiving schedule the rest of the way, would have maybe been the favorites in this division. They had They're going into their by and then they would add the Falcons, Brown's Eagles, Panthers. Uh So, other than the Eagles game, you know, they would feel good in their division games, Like division games are going to decide a lot here. But that's why It's just a total gut punch of a of a loss for the Saints and their fans, except for my friends on the Saints Twitter podcast who just want to hashtag fired Dennis Allen, and so I'm looking forward to hearing their uh addition and of of this game because if nothing else, this could help them in that in that endeavor. Each of these NFC South teams has two division games left, which means it's really not over. And the fact that the not over, but it would have been like way more just like wide open and felt like it was starting to like just be over for the Bucks. Even Yeah, it'll be fun if the Falcons Bucks Week eight teen game is for the division, but the Falcons have to make up some ground before then for that to be a thing. And one more thing about this division. There's two divisions in the NFL where every team has a negative point differential, the a f C South and the NFC South. It's a really crazy year that both Eastern divisions are so strong and both Southern divisions are so bad. That was not a bad game in the end. It was It was a bad game for most of it, but it had a good ending and a great ending. It's all you need. Let's uh end this podcast in a positive way. Top six list tonight in honor of Tom Brady. The greatest seasons ever by quarterbacks over the age of forty in the NFL number six war in the Seahawks led the league in yards per game passing, had a lot of interceptions, but he made the Pro Bowl at forty with the Seahawks. Number five is Brett five and that oh nine Vikings season where he just turned the clock back. He electrified the NFL. It sort of got me realizing, as stupid as this is what the whole Brett Farve phenomenon was all about, because I sort of jumped in in terms of a profession just when he was starting to get annoying around two thousand and three, uh and declining, And that season was so much fun. Number four in the list Tom Brady two thousand and eighteen. People think like, oh, that wasn't that great a year for them. Oh, they got carried to the Super Bowl by the defense. Uh Uh. He went to overtime and out the old Patrick Mahomes in Arrowhead. Before that, he put a forty burger on Philip Rivers the round before that, I don't want to hear anything about carried by a defense. Number three Tom Brady the night season winning the Super Bowl with the Buccaneers in a new spot stuck it to uh anyone who thought he was done, including Bill Belichick. Number two on the list, Tom Brady one. He should have won the MVP last season, No wonder he wants to keep playing. He was the best quarterback in the league. And then finally number one on the list, Tom Brady two thousand and seventeen. Yes, they lost to the Super Bowl to the Eagles, but that was the best super Bowl I think he ever played it, and he was on fire that entire season. Problematic defense, but oh my god, was he good. So yeah, you might think he'd be getting old, and he got lucky tonight. But don't ever forget that's Tom Brady you're talking about. For Justin Graver, I couldn't be any more annoying then I just was I'm sorry, Is that okay? Justin? Yeah? That was great. I mean I don't know that that one was maybe going too far. We'll be back tuesday, Colleen Wolfe is there. Until then, he had the call