KILL YOUR LAWN... & MAKE IT THE LAW.

Do it here we're going nice. So, okay, welcome to another episode
of The Crime Pays but Bonding he doesn't podcast. I'm here in the Lovely
Home of Jeff and Janet Couch Crouch, God, every goddamn I'm going.
I'm on my road to becoming a completely perfectly senile geriatric Italian at some point
should I live that long? So I already got one foot in the door.
Jeff and Janet Crouch, not Couch. That's why the search I just
did to pull up the Times interview didn't come up with anything. I was
getting like fucking ikey ads. Anyway, we're here in the Lovely home of
Jeff and Janet Crouch. I'm here. What else scorch Uh yeah, yeah,
he's He's just gonna take you. We're coming back from filming Killer Long.
The network wanted us to go to the Bucking Washington monument and film some
clickbait, which I was not really feeling so but Louis to get to chase
some squirrels on the mall. Uh. Anyway, Uh. They are both
the They were both the focus of a huge what end up becoming a huge
fight over the sanctity of the American lawn in Columbia, Maryland, and it
ended up they fought it. They had a neighbor that complained, didn't like
what they were doing with the yard, putting in a pollinator garden, fucking
native plant garden, and this guy next to them just started freaking out.
It's like slowly started smoking right like he was like fuman for a while,
sitting on it. Didn't knock on your door and say anything to you about
it. Suddenly you guys got a letter from the city and anyway, the
yeah from the HOA. The short of the law, the short version of
the long story, which we're gonna cover in this podcast, is that they
ended up changing the law because of you guys. You ended up changing state
law so that hoas can no longer fuck with people in terms of what they
planned their front yard right right and their their whole yard. They're not allowed
to require people to have turf grass lawns. All okay, okay, I
just ye just come a little bit closer. I know it's annoying with that
mic, but it's like you see on the gard yeah, so what so
let's get into it. So what happened When did you guys start when did
you guys kill your lawn? It was bit by bit right, how'd it
go? I started the first year twenty four years ago, a little over
twenty four years with the front garden, and then from there we every year
or two did another part. And then Nancy Lawson, who was a writer
and this movement, told us he's a sister in law, sister of Janet.
It told us about native plants, and so we started doing that.
So either started just you just weren't into the lawn, and then you started
getting more learning, learning more learning about plants. Right. Yeah, Initially
we planted native plants. Some of them were some of them weren't, and
we didn't know about native plants at that point. You just didn't like a
lawns of space? Why not have a garden? Yeah? Who doesn't want
pretty flowers and plants and tree right? Right? Okay? So this so
then your because your sister tell us about your sister? What is what does
she say? Nancy is known as the Humane Gardener. She's a master gardener,
master naturalist, an author, and she wrote The Humane Gardener and Wildscape
and she's really into native plants and she's helped introduce a lot of people across
the country into planting native plants and teaching them the benefits. So you know,
we were really lucky to have her right in our you know, right
in our family. So we started, you know, just learning from her.
So she kind of was like, you guys are doing this already.
Why not start You guys are playing a gardener ready when started learning about it
like twenty years ago. Yeah, why not start paying attention into natives,
which is just ecology, which is just understanding where you fit into the ecosystem
exactly. Yeah. Yeah, So we just started doing it and very quickly
stopped using pesticides or any fertilizers over time, and started seeing all the flies
and the bees and the insects and the birds start coming to your yard.
So how would you describe because this is like you got a cul de sect
there, but it's like kind of wooded. It's like a nice how would
you describe where you live? We have a behind us is probably fifty acres
of woods, so all the animals live there anyway, and since we put
in the gardens, we see more animals, you know, just around,
flying squirrels and everything else. And it's all the bugs are great there.
They don't hurt you. They're they're just there and they're they're wonderful. But
the but the some of the surrounding yards have like there's some real Like I
was making fun of one. I hope you guys, I hope he's not
that bad of a prop. I hope he doesn't listen to what I said
basically, But I was making fun of this one long because I saw it
and I was like, God, damn, you know, it's really specific,
like the way he put the mower in. It looks like a perfectly
checker right light green dark green checkers on the perfect along with the red brick
and the American flag and all this stuff. And I saw it and my
first thought was that guy's got some sick ship in this class. I don't
want to see his hard driving just joking around, but I'm just saying,
there's a real you know what I mean, there's a real there's a real
like code that goes with that. You know it is over here is so
tight. The guy on the other side, this is the real guy,
right, the guy who started complaining, right, He's got so much ship
up his asshole. There's so much stuff there, Like you could tell he's
suffering on the inside. He's just this nondescript human with perfect hair, prime
candidate for MDMA therapy. You know there's this, there's some untreated childhood trauma
going on there. Yeah, so what happened? So you guys are doing
this? When did you guys move here? How long ago? Nineteen ninety
nine? All right, and you started getting rid of the long few years
after because you guys moved in. You were like, fuck this, this
is like, I want to put a garden, small garden. And then
we went over probably was seven eight years, did it all? Okay?
Yeah, So the most of the front yard is now native plant beds.
We do have some things that aren't native, and then we have a few
strips of lawn, but most of the surrounding homes are our turf grass lawns.
There are a few gardens, but not a lot. So this was
twenty three years in the make. And when did you first start catching hell
about it? Twenty seventeen, twenty seventeen. This so almost twenty years and
this dude doesn't say anything to you, no knocking on the door and know,
hey, what's going on? Why are you guys doing that? Nothing.
In fact, this I don't know asshole used to borrow our ladder up
until after his initial complaints. He'd come over and borrow our ladder and be
nice. Yeah, and he's complaining behind our back. So you guys think
everything's all well and good and we had no idea. And even in twenty
ten, or Hoa High hired a law firm and we went to the community
meeting and Jeff spoke up and said, you know, like, we're really
worried about this hiring of this law firm because we've heard bad things like with
Hoa's and these lawyers, and we're worried you're going to bother us about our
garden. This is before anything happened. Well yeah, seven years before,
so you guys saw it. You guys saw a comment already or what no,
because we hadn't had any. But just because you know, you hear
all these things. Why did they hire a law firm to collect back?
Well, they said it was to collect dudes. And so how does an
hoa work really? Because I don't really understand. You got to come a
little bit closer to the mike, sorry, just because it's going to be
anything. So how does an HOA work like if if I don't understand,
I don't understand, Like you own the property, but why do they have
any say over what the fust Well, you sign a contract when you move
in. It's an HOA contract, and so the HOA say that you actually
pretty much lose your all of your other rights because you've signed this contract.
What's the purpose of these historically, Well, so they started in the sixties
and they were to keep certain people out of communities. Really, that's that's
how it started. Yeah, and so over time they've just grown and they
were a monster and they have I mean are When we moved in r eh
o A, it's the rules are pretty old and not very specific, so
we don't even think we ever broke any rules. Even when they started coming
after us. We still think that we never did. But we had boundary
lines in terms of what they control, Like, no, they don't control
it, but they will say, for example, you can't have pollinator gardens,
or you can't have you have to have a certain door or to spa
right, or you can't fly flag, or you can't fly flag, or
you can do this, or politic size, or you can't have a treehouse.
So they're meant to kind of enforce this hegemony kind of like yeah,
yeah, yeah, to keep everything the same across them, across the community.
Just it seems for all, you know, for what's all the hoopla
out there, it seems, for all the hoopla about this, it seems
anti American almost for things that very much does patting themselves on the back about
it. We got his freedom. It seems like the opposite. It is,
it absolutely is. But if you so, when we first moved in,
for all those years, we didn't have any problems, and that's what
people say, Oh my Hoa is fine, and it's fine until it's not
until you have one person to give someone who's got a wild hair up there
as who wants to make some money, right. Yeah. So we just
brought it up back then to say, but you know, we've heard these
bad things about h o as you know, and they're like, oh,
no, we don't have any problem with your garden. Your garden's fine,
because everybody knew about it until this guy started, right until he started complaining.
So what was the first word you heard of it? Like, what
it was a letter? Or what it was a letter? It was a
letter we got a letter that said, like, mow your lawn and you
know, seasonal maintenance. And it was in September, so you know,
things were kind of starting to go dormant. And but you know, the
lawn. We don't have a lot a lawn, but it was always mode.
But we just kind of said, you know what, we mowed the
lawn, we pulled a couple of weeds, and we are just right,
we'll wait, yeah, yeah, but we're we're gardening in an environmentally friendly
manner. Well, they really latched onto that language and then they use that
against us, which is odd. Wait, so did you guys have any
idea at this point with that one letter that it was because someone was complaining
that it? Did it say someone was complaining? Yeah, it just said
no, it's just very boiler plate hoa type of line. So what didn't
they like about the quote environment? It didn't. Well. So then the
next letter that we got was two months a month after we responded, so
we got it the weekend before Thanksgiving in twenty seventeen, and they said,
you know, sease and distist, you have to pull out your garden and
all these threats like if you don't do what we say we might to you,
we might, we can mow it down. And this is that they
just wor from zero to eighty. Basic, you're to eighty like out of
nowhere, this wild, wild letter. Yeah, and so so so what
ends up happening next, Like after you get this this week, we get
the letter, we hire a lawyer, you know, because we thought we
can't do this by ourselves. We responded to the first letter that was pretty
just innocuous ourselves and it just said maintenance. It didn't say get rid of
everything. No no, no, no, no no, just like two
sentences. And then the second letter said seasoned desists if you don't get rid
of all this one, yeah, we might sue you. We might find
you. We have we right. It's so pissed. Yeah, it's infuriating
I would be so pissed. So scary too, because all of a sudden,
in your own home you're attacked. Yeah, the spot where you've been
living for at this point almost twenty years. You feel safe. This is
where I come home and I worked from home even before COVID. God.
Fuck all these people then start are coming around taking pictures, stopping in front
of your house. You're sort of under siege in your own house, right,
Well, you guys did something smart, whereas I would have just been
looking for things to vandalize. You went and next went and got the law
involved. And so what happened? Now you get a lawyer? Can we
get a lawyer? He responds, You know, we have a couple of
weeks to respond. He does. He says, we don't think they're violating
anything, you know, let's stop violating. What violating? Right? What
exactly are they what exactly don't you like? What exactly are they violating?
And we wait months and months till the next May or June, and we
got a letter same thing, Christ. We waited for the peak growth of
your garden. Peak growth is that what it says? Yeah, And now
we're you know, we don't like it and you must remove it, okay.
And so what happened after that? Then we had an HOA, asked
for an ho A meeting with our lawyer there, well there was not their
lawyer. Yeah, tried mediation. Basically it's fake. They only wanted to
do it for to show and and they you know, it was obviously the
lawyer was nasty and and told he told me to shut up. There's so
many pig lawyers though. He told he told Nancy, you met Nancy,
Nancy, you know, quietly talking about native plants, and he yelled at
her to be quiet. Just kind of needs a fucking kick in the groin
or his kneecaps broken or something probably anyway, So yeah, there's many lawyers.
It's the case with a lot of lawyers, as I've seen. Okay,
we could. We don't condone violence, and we've had a lot of
thoughts. We don't know. We don't condone violence except against lawyers. Okay,
So anyway, so well through all this without any violence. But I'm
just me personally anyway. So but so this goes on. So the mediation,
the fake mediation is fucking kangaroo, just a joke. And we Yeah,
then we waited again. So that's in September of twenty eighteen. We
waited until May of twenty nineteen to get a response from them from that hearing.
All those months, Jesus, almost another year. I wonder what they're
waiting for. Okay, so May of twenty nineteen and now now we get
the same just another letter, cut it all down, destroyer garden. Yeah,
we can sue you, we can find you. And so they were
trying to force you to put a lawn in. Yes, absolutely, it's
fucking insane, right and they you know, they said, you know he's
always out there digging, you know, like it's all the fuck, what
the fuck is he? What is it their business to worry about digging it?
You have plants that grow back every year, you know, like crazy
crazy stuff. It's not fucking disconnected, nit witch, please so sad and
discussion and you need to have a green turf grass lawn. They didn't even
know obviously what perennials are, right, it just escapes them. Yeah,
you know, they wouldn't know. And I'll know, it's a bunch of
stuff. I only care about plants for you know, the corporate events we're
having, you know, for the company, the company get togethers, you
know, in the background for a photo. Right, So this is now,
it's twenty nineteen. You get another letter and then what happens then we
then there's this sort of back and forth like can we settle? Can we
settle? But all it's doing is eating up money on our part and on
the hoa. He talked to one of these fucking lawyers for an hour.
It's like five hundred right right exactly, and he kept, you know,
the HOA lawyer just kept charging, charging, pretending to kind of mediate.
So then we decided, you know, finally it couldn't take it anymore.
And there's no other really steps in the process, right, so we decided
to sue the HOA nice nice you like, if we're wasting all this money
my way, well you might as well go on the offense. Fuck,
because I every day I was worried. I mean, Jeff continued to work
out in the garden and you know, I had a hard time doing it.
I had a hard time going outside. I didn't you know, people
around it, everybody's you know, It's just I was so uncomfortable in our
house, in our yard, and how's it going. Did one day,
at what point did you figure out this tightly wound nut job next door was
the one? Well at that hearing the year before, he came and you
know, hollered and said crazy stuff. And that was the first time you
realized he really had an issue with it. I mean, he did,
I think a few months before that. I have guessed a few months before
that, But before then, we had no idea and they also intimated that
it was multiple people, so we thought it was We didn't know it was
one person, right, it was just as no one else really gave a
ship. No, your other neighbors think, oh okay, your other neighbors
have a fucking lending library. It can't be that bad, right yeah yeah,
yeah yeah and for kids? Right? So, so have you talked
to like other neighbors about it and they think it's pretty cool or what?
Yeah? Either they you know, they like it. They're like, I
don't care. They don't care, right, they don't mind. Wow.
Okay, so you figured this guy actually went to the meeting and complained this
Karen guy and uh and so so you sued back. So we sued.
We actually that we sued. Do you see that for? So what what
ends up happening? Then? How does it proceed? Step by step?
Okay? So we sued them. But then also at the same time,
we started going to local environmental events. We were passing flyers around our neighborhood.
We were giving them to our local legislators, and I emailed our local
legislators to say, hey, this is going on. Is there anything you
guys can help us with? Is there anything you can do. I'm just
gonna start just the litmit, so actually face o the okay, okay,
is there anything you can do to help us? And so this was all
going on at the same time that, you know, around the time we
filed our lawsuit in August of twenty nineteen, it was your lawyer pretty into
this, like your lawyer will oh, totally. We had the most amazing
lawyer, So you guys, lawyer is actually pretty cool. Yeah, amazing
Jeff Contraft of Skipper Law and crofton Maryland. And when I first started looking
for somebody who would represent a homeowner, and there are very few who will
do it because h as have so much power and homeowners have so little power,
and homeowners don't typically have a ton of money to spend, and so
you know, they give up because they don't have a choice. The hoa
thing is still so weird to me because I get people commenting on the YouTube
page a lot can't do it, My hoa can't do it, man,
and it's like, funk your ho a. You guys actually fought them and
ended up winning. So you guys, so you end up suing them and
how to so then the law so then we then the state legislator contacted us
and they got a well the lawsuits still well, the lawsuits still open,
and said, you know, we're interested in writing a law to help people
in your situation. How did she hear about you? And what's her name?
So the legislator is Terry Hill, Delegate Terry Hill, and Mary Katherine
Cochrane is her legislative director and she's the one who contacted us, And how
did she hear about you? Because we because of our email, we don't
know if it's our the email that I wrote asking them for help, or
if it was handing out flyers at the environmental events. So you guys started
making noise. Yeah, we started making to do so this is what anyone
who deals with this start making noise. Get Facebook groups, go to meetings,
talk to people to contact the Native Plant Society. Yeah, and we
did all of that stuff too, but it didn't really lead to anything.
Yeah, but you know, we tried. But it's through that kind of
stuff, like in social media. Facebook. I talked to a guy who
made a video about our garden and you know, we put that out that
raised more awareness. Who led me to the person who actually recommended that we
talked to the state legislator, so you know, it all kind of flows
together. But then so so they started working on a law that they were
going to introduce the next year, and they did. But then the HOA
counter sued us for the very same things that we had sued them over under
what grounds? Yeah? Why were they the same? I mean, the
exact same things that we sued them for. They suit us back. It's
just what lawyers do. But they intimidate me. I'm gonna I'm going to
intimidate you exactly. And so what were they claiming then that, I mean,
that we had violated the documents in our community, and so we contended
that we didn't. But what that does, all that did, because it
wasn't over different issues, was raised legal fees for everybody. Higher God.
Is so fucking stupid. They spend one hundred thousand dollars of our money because
all of that community's money, the community's money, and the communities from fees
that they they just they just get a collection. Then they have this overrun
of money they just and ours is small. Can you imagine what big ones
have? Hundreds of thousands of dollars. We spent sixty thousand and you guys
never got that back, right, No, but you got the launching right.
So we spent it over time. So they counter suit us, so
then they The law was introduced into the Maryland State legislature in January of twenty
twenty, and then COVID shut everything down a few months later. But it
was really sailing through the process. I mean, did anyone object to it
or no? It was like essentially, you know, there was no there
was no opposition. And this one guy was he was a legislator who's a
farmer from the eastern shore of Maryland, and he had voted against every other
environmental bill that had come before the committee. And when we were talking about
it and he was asking questions and he said, he kind of laughed and
he said, who would be against a pollinator garden? You know, So
there isn't something that should be left or right right, it's not. And
it's so cut and dry. Property rights, property rights as well. You
always hear, right, this is who the fuck is anyone else to tell
you what they do in your own fucking that's allay, right, Well,
let's the ho way, right, Yeah, that's the thing, that's that's
just but that's why we had to have a law. So you got this
law passed, and now what's happening. Well, so it didn't pass that
year, but it was reintroduced and passed the next year. COVID right,
right, right, But but this law got passed, and now there's other
states trying to do copy. Well they are and may Maine actually passed it
and it's going into effect this fall. A very similar law to the one
in Maryland. And they when they had their press release, they mentioned the
New York Times article. That's amazing. Yeah, and so they can't require
turf grass there in ho As. Yeah, I read about I read about
you guys in that Times article because I had people sending it to me and
I was like, fuck, yeah, man, that's amazing. Yea,
it's so important what you did. It's so cool what you did. You
were like, fuck this, I don't care if it costs money. This
is it's just more important to money, right, And that's what it was.
But I think it's really markable too. Is like it wasn't just it's
our stuff. We like it. We like coming home to spend time in
it, like you were talking about doing, Jeff, you know, like
you come home, you walk through the garden, you spent minute. You
know, it wasn't just about that. It was about principle, right right.
It was definitely a four principle for two main reasons, native plants and
the benefits of vast benefits of native plants, and for animals and pollinators,
but also for property rights. You know, yes, h o as can
tell you some things, but they can't tell you what you should put in
your fucking yard. Right. It's really weird, it's crazy. So like
all the people around here can have turf, grass, grass lawns, that's
fine. I wish they didn't. I wish they had pollinator native plants.
It makes me sick. It's not like a soccer field or a football field,
right, there's no point in it, you know what. It's their
house. That's what they want to do, pour poison in. I'll silently
judge them, but do whatever right, do your thing, Let me do
mine. Don't What is going on when people like us are attacked for growing
a garden. Isn't that what America is supposed to be about? That people
can do whatever they want, you know, I mean the animals that live
back in the woods behind your house, don't know the border, they come
right on. True, Yeah, and here they are. And you know
why have like a turf grass lawn that supports none of them instead of a
native plant garden where they can reside. And if we had been forced to
take that out, all of the creatures that have lived here over the years,
I mean, you will become a more depressing, boring and we would
have had a little extinction in our own yard. We couldn't do that,
Are you kidding me? Yeah, So let's talk about that too, because
I mean, we covered this, that's good, But let's talk about why
it's important to have all that shit in your yard, like to be able
to go and look at it and cool insects, cool bugs, little critters,
the flying squirrels, the birds, all that shit. I mean,
how does it make you feel? How has it played into your own mental
and emotional health? At the end of the day, when you get off
work or whatever, you have a shitty day, go sit in the garden.
Yeah, I've been gardening for that twenty four years. And so whether
it's a spring, obviously it's a very busy season of planning and cleaning up
and and then but even in the fall and winter, we walk around there
to see what's there, and so it's very calming and peaceful, and you
know, you know, it's great. I love it being out in the
spring. In summer, you can be out there all the time. But
even now, see, I mean now, it's like when all the birds
are showing up to eat seeds and stuff, it's something and we have all
the birds are migrating now, so we see all different kinds of birds that
we don't usually see. They're here for a few days and they're head and
south. Yeah. I treat my garden like it's a fucking research lab.
Man. I love it. I've got all kind of weird shit. I
want to plant stuff. If I plant something and it it doesn't survive,
I think about why, I'll make notes of it. I'll remember all that
stuffs. I see how something goes from a seed to a seedling to a
grown plant, and then what animals and you know, insects end up on
that plant. And it's it's it's literally a classroom in my front yard.
I learned. I enrich my life and I study the landscape and the things.
I become more familiar with the insects and birds and other shit that comes
because it's you know, where I live. I get like, you know,
big toads and cool little these little chirping frogs, these little real ground
chirping frogs. First time I heard them, I mean that's how I would.
I didn't even know they fucking existed until I saw them in my yard.
And then I talk to people that live in my area like that are
plant people. Because most people don't give it shit. You got to talk
to the plant people. They're like, oh, yeah, the little chirping
frogs. I thought they were crickets. I'd be out there watering and they
like hanging out in between my potted trees that I'm getting ready to go planting
other people's yards. Once I helped them convince them to kill their fucking lawns,
and I would hear these little I was like, that doesn't sound like
a cricket. It sounds different. What the fuck is that? And I
looked and it's like there's two of these little rio grand valley chirping frogs bang
in a pot. I was just like, what the Oh. Then I
get these gulf toads and I got three different species. The lizards I got
the Texas spiny lizard in my yard Scaloporus, you know, genus of western
fence lizard. So it's you know, it vastly improves and it enriches my
life. And if I wasn't allowed to have that, I'd be fucking pissed
and I would be out doing shit. I used to do it as a
teenager, like vandalized stuff or whatever. You know, So it's for me.
It takes all that negative energy and places it somewhere positive. And I
think it does the same for my travels across the country talking to people about
this, I see that it does the same for other people too. It
takes negative shit in terms of positive Yeah. Absolutely, and so it's just
not so any Okay, So you guys got the law changed, which you
didn't even mean to do. And then how did the what happened with the
lawsuit? So we we had a pre trial hearing with a magistrate over Zoom
during COVID, and that was just kind of made us realize that going to
court could be a crapshoot. Who knows what would happen? What was the
magistrates saying, I mean, just like it was very limited in scope about
what was discussed, and it was just like and I've heard that their their
role in that pre trial hearing is to try to get you to settle.
So I mean, you know, they did their job because we you know,
as it got closer and closer to the court date, we're like,
let's try one more time to see if we can figure something out. Because
if we've gone to court and lost, we the judge could have ordered us
to pay the h oas. Yeah, legal fees fucked, and we couldn't
do that. I want to I just just I wonder in case I ever
find with how do they actually enforce that, you know, like, how
do they make you if you're like, fucking, I'm not going to pay?
Oh? I mean they would probably they can take it out of your
bank, take a lean, Yeah, they would put a lien on your
I don't know what house. Yeah, they would do whatever they had to
do to get it. I'm okay, because I don't know much about this.
I'm just looking for loopholes should I ever find myself. You know,
because I have like twenty grand and medical that I'm never going to pay.
I consider it a badge hunner. And I still got good credit because I
got a couple of credit cards that I just set up on auto pay.
You know, I get gass at them, so I get credit points every
month for paying it. Meanwhile, who gives a fuck about the medical I
think I still all PG and E bill from when I live in California.
Those fucking criminals, the ones that started the Paradise fire because they don't want
to maintain their their properties. You know, it's privatizing public utilities. How
does that go anyway? So, but anyway, I was just wondering just
that for any So the course, Okay, so the debt collectors can't actually
force you to pay the debts, but the courts can certainly force you.
I'm pretty sure. I don't think there any right, Yeah, you can't
run, you can't run it hard. I gotta put my stuff in someone
else's name. That's the thing, you know. It's like, you're so
anyway. So you guys, so you were like, okay, this is
not we definitely maybe we do want to settle on. So what what did
you guys settle for? We settled in the end, they said, as
six foot back from the I sat back from the sidewalk, and that was
one small frontal garden and three foot from his side, and when we measured
it, we were three feet so we only had to take that probably ten
square feet or twenty I don't know, a ridiculous amount of money. It's
a tiny amount of our law. And for one hundred one thousand for them
and sixty for us. It's hilarious. You had to throw them a bone,
You had to throw them something. Yeah, we had to. But
before you know, like one of this their settlement offers was for us to
build a six foot fence in our backyard neighboring his property and pay for it
ourselves, which we didn't want a fence back there in the first place.
Like why would we pay for a fence when we've done nothing wrong? I
mean, was he That's what I don't get either, Like how why how
did he get involved? He became somehow very entwined with the hoa lawyer.
He was irate from for years and didn't say anything, and then he started
to say things, and they ignored him, we think for several years until
they all walked down the whole h o A board walked down one six o'clock
at night, looking at our garden in the fall which doesn't have it has
a lot of great stuff for seeds and animals. But it's not an October.
It's not at its peak, for sure, It's way past. So
I went out and yelled at him a bit and they left, and then
shortly after that, not shortly a while after that, they started coming for
us. Wow, well, what's with the lawn, Like, why would
that be part of the or not the lawn the fence, why would that
be part of the settlement. I mean, somehow they decided that we were
the garden aggressors. I guess we were the problem, and he was a
victim and a victim of our native plant garden. And then as Jeff was
saying, he started he started startarted, you know, he was complaining,
complaining, and then he started using his dot gov work email address, his
high level I wanted to ask you about that, because that's a big no
no. Right, if you have you worked for the gouvernment, you're not
supposed to use the government email for personal shit because it can intimidate people,
you know, right, you're not supposed to use it at all for Yeah,
but particularly in that sort of circumstance when you're going after your neighbor to
complain about them, and then you sign your title, your high level title,
and your dot of email address. And that's when the HOA actually started
paying attention to him and kind of doing what he wanted. God man,
that's fus. But we didn't know that at the time. We didn't know
that. We would never have known that if we hadn't filed a lawsuit,
right, And so that's the kind of stuff though. This stuff came out
in the wash. Yeah, it came out in the discovery of the lawsuit
and you were Were you able to see the emails? Yes, Oh my
god, yeah, they're bad. What type of shit was he saying in
there? I mean he said all kinds of stuff. He said that we
he concocted a thing and said we shot at his house with a pellet gun.
I mean he stopped. So he tried to paint us, portray us
as being these kind of lunatics with a native plant guard. I mean that
was part. I guess that's part of the lunacy. You know that we
also did. I mean, like, we're really peaceful people. You know,
we've never shot at anyone's house. But he was putting these stories out
about type the other I mean, joey, I mean, okay, so
what other let's talk about the juicy shit? What else? What other weird
ship was he coming up with? And he said that we planned to build
a moat in our front yard. Is he trying to accuse you guys of
like a pizza gate thing like drinking, like child blood or anything? Not
a right wing? Do it right? I mean he said he's right wing,
But he said a moat? He said, were a moat in our
front yard? How would how would that work? I don't get the water
stay in the mode and not drain into the surrounding soil horizon. Are you
gonna use the tarp or are we gonna be talking concrete or what? Waiting?
Never got that far? I would use I would suggest the truck tarp
because the concrete actually, if you decide against it later on, you have
to get guys in there to move it. You know, where's the tarp?
You just drain it and right? Yeah? Okay? What else?
He said that we had six foot butterflies in our yard. No these this
is a this guy's No, we have a butterfly maybe a foot metal a
metal one our deck for me? Oh, yeah, giant sculptures. You
guys, weren't the loan ornaments for a while. I'm not I'm not judging.
I'm just saying it's I mean, it's in our backyard. Who cares,
right, No, I want I want one of those ones that like
the guy peeing. I would get one of those from mine, like a
phontein, you know, like somebody get like a whino and a trench coat
urinating, and they'd be the fountain in that. And you don't live in
an h o a, so you could right right, but you get if
you get. You know, that's I gotta get some water features in my
guard because especially where I live, that brings I see the grackles trying to
drink, and lizards and you get the we get to so you don't have
any water. You do have to get some water, especially where you are.
We have an old jacuzzie tub that died probably ten or twelve years ago.
We made it into a pond on her neck with the rocks around it
and plants, and the birds love it and get some mosquitofish, not the
goldfish because the raccoons lead them, but the little mosquitofish put them in there.
The mosquitos. We found the mosquitos will still show up. You got
to get to my friend Christy have a problem problem. She's got a big
water garden. We get chacha lacas, really weird looking like desert bird that
comes in. They look like a pheasant and they come in. They're so
cool, man, They come in and drink from it. Everything comes.
Yeah, that's what. Hey, I gotta do something you do because especially
where you are, it doesn't cost too much electricity to run the pump,
No, very small amount. So and having you just dig it, put
a liner in it, put rocks around it, and do your plants and
yeah, years there'll be frogs. Oh yeah, other animals. Yeah,
you give Yeah, it's a great oay. Oh that's awesome. I gotta
do that. Ship you get it, and then what do you what do
you get the tarp to line it with? Oh, you get it at
any quarem store. You get it online. It's everywhere. Is it like
a pond tar It's a pond tarp. You dig the hole in the ground,
get into this, put the tarp end. That's it's impenetrable. And
then you add your rocks, your water, your plants. Yeah, that's
it man. Yeah, we used to have fish, but the birds.
But sometimes like we had a great hair and shopped by one time, those
guys, those guys, I mean, he was I know, he saw
that little bit of water and we have a lot of lakes around here,
but he decided to come to But yeah, I mean, but we now
we just have plants. But you can put native water plants in its great,
that's cool. So okay, So anyway, so what happened to settlement?
They want of this stuff? They ended up. Yeah, and so
we settled and and you know, and now it's done and we have our
garden and you need to give up a setback of three. Yeah, we
had milk. It was kind of hard, you know, to felt bad
to do that. But we planted the plants elsewhere in our garden and we
planted uh sage grass so that you know, so it's still turf, right.
Yeah. Yeah, Nancy showed She's like, we just showed them.
We just showed them sedges. Louis chill. It's just a cat. She's
fine, be good. Oh wow, that's nice. Cool. The cat's
cool with Louis. That's nice. That's unbelievable. I think she sees it.
I was taking care of this little kitten at one point and I just
had it for two weeks because I'm allergic, you know, I know,
are you doing okay? And I think, oh, oh yeah, no,
I'm fine, I'm fine. But I was taking this little kid and
I found the train yard near my work, and I ended up giving it
to some people who I was like, the indoors, only you know,
don't let it out because they've marked the shit out of birds. But anyway,
during that period, Louis was pissed. She was looking at me like
outraged. It was fucking hilarious. I've never seen so much personality. And
she's so sweet, I know. But anyway, so so you guys to
the give up a little bit and then yeah, and then how did things
proceed? So when did the settlement happen? When was this? This is
twenty twenty, Yeah, December twenty twenty. And then the law actually went
to effect in twenty one, yeah, October twenty one. It went through
the legislature in twenty one, flew through I think in both houses there were
only like two no votes out of the governor didn't sign it, so it
went into effect. October first, twenty twenty one. So the government didn't
he didn't sign it. But if he didn't veto it, so yeah,
it wouldn't have mattered because we had overwhelming and there's right, No, he
could have vetoed it. He could have vetoed it, but he would have
two votes on his side out of one hundred maybe yeah, would it would
look yeah? Yeah, he was a Republican Hogan, So whatever, what
the fuck? But again, this shit shouldn't be it's so like it's not
political now, and that's the thing. It's not. It's almost that's the
thing. I heard this podcast then NPR today. They were talking about fifteen
minute cities. The idea behind it being you can walk anywhere in fifteen minutes,
really easy, right, like shit for brand, Like they're just so
easy nothing, you know, it doesn't take any mental stamina to realize the
obvious benefits, right, and being able to walk and not trapped in a
fucking car and devoting half your you know, land surface to parking lot,
right, which actually a heat battery and a shitty for runoff. And I
heard this thing where people were coming up with there was this big right wing
pushback against that probably funded by the oil companies like astro By oil companies,
and they were saying it's a conspiracy to control people, to keep people corralled
into a small area, just the dumbest fucking shit. Joe Rogan backed up.
He was in the Joe said, well, you know what they could
do to you. It's like they're going to be covered and try to you
know, did you globalist agenda? They're always the fucking globalist. Never the
oil companies pay politicians, you know, to to farm people. Never them,
It's always the quote unquote globalist. I couldn't fuck believe it. And
I was like, why is that political? I wish that you had been
able to spend some more time here, because there's a path right next to
our neighbor's house that leads back into the woods where you can walk anywhere in
Columbia through paths. Yeah, it's nice. What's striking me about this area
is it is it's mostly for us, Like there wasn't any clearings, any
clearings that were here or probably caused either by two things like either are well
three things a floodplain thinner soil due to like a rocks being too close to
the surface, or a slope or whatever, or Native Americans clearing it intentionally,
so it's it's kind of wild. But to see like the forest here,
they're so different from the ones we get in the Midwest, it's crazy.
So but yeah, the thing the thing with all this I think,
I'm I almost think it's better to not mention things like climate change because how
stupid this country is right now, and how polarized it is. Everyone's being
manipulated by social media companies and foreign interests and you know, corporate agendas that
if you just don't, don't even mention climate She's like, don't, then
that's not the reason to do this, you know, Like the reason to
do this is because it's nice to go hang out in a garden. No.
No, I totally agree, because we said, you know, we
mentioned that it was an environmentally friendly garden and our response and in all the
letters they wrote back to us, they quoted that like it was something like
it was something bad. Well, to them, it is because they're fucking
nimorized. That's the thing I thought. You, Like, always I almost
suggest to people, like, don't mention any of these key issues. I
was in in world. All this kid's pissed. Okay, hey, come
on, come on, come on, Hey, it's okay. Tina,
Tina, Tina Turner. Come on, Lou, He's not doing any to
you. She's like, maybe that's the one that got Mandy there today.
Okay, it's sorry. We gotta do we gotta do some Uh. Oh,
she'll chill. She's got the blanket effect right now, you're holding it.
I was in a rural New Mexico. I thought about this today.
This is in twenty nineteen with a friend of mine who was getting his PhD
studying a genus in a sunflower family that grows out of rock walls. And
we were at this incredible gypsum outcropping and it's all you know, near White
Sands National Monument, that's all gyps and sand and so it's just but this
was like hard gyp, some concrete, really cool plants, plants that only
grow on this gyp, some weird fucking plants you don't see anywhere else.
Just a landscape like the service of the moon. And this this dude pulls
up on in a pickup truck, this redneck guy. And no offense to
rednecks. I've got some friends who are rednecks, you know, the guys
that are good when you want to you want to call him and you've got
a deer problem. You know, they'll figure out a way to get rid
of it, shoot at whatever. You know, they're willing to break the
law on the right times. You know, they're like the good rednecks.
But but this guy pulls up and he asks, He asked us what we're
doing. And I explained it to him, or maybe Isaac did, I
forget, but he mentioned something about, oh, yeah, we're studying.
I study this plant and the effects in this certain climate. And just mentioning
the climate no relation to climate change, it triggered this guy and he went
off on this unhinged climate change rant. I couldn't bue. Was like Jesus
christ Man, he's so dummy, he doesn't even under or he's so brainwashed.
Rather, I don't want to be mean, he's still brainwashed that just
hearing the word of objectively no relation to climate change itself, it triggers him.
And well, we're all brainwashed. When I grew up and nobody knew
about planning, you had to have turf grass, and so we're all brainwashed.
And they're still brainwashed, and we're trying, you know, to give
people choices. If they want to keep their their environmental terrible grass, they
can. But if they want to make you know, have fun and make
gardens that are good for the environment and the animals, plants and all that
shit, great, just nice to hang out. And yeah, that's why
I'm almost like, I don't even mention it. I know it's it's not
so they kept cut even when they we had to submit our discovery, they
asked like, what environmental organizations do you belong to? I swear to god
you got one of the goddamned tree huggers, I know, And we actually
did not belong to any. But yeah, but again it was what it's
like, like what they were just they were just spitball, just trying to
get just throw a bunch of ship to the wall sea wood stick and we
can pin them. Is nut jobs or environmental wacos there. It's just such
a weird, Yeah it is. Yeah, So it happens every day all
over the country, right right, and people get stuck in their their you
know, their divisions on either side of the discats really having a bad time.
She's really all right, No, it's fine, Tom, but uh,
but so so what what is the what's the feedback been, like,
you know, post post litigation and post legislation, like what have you The
New York Times contacted You didn't, yeh. We've been doing podcasts and people
around Maryland have definitely benefited from it. Nancy hears about it quite a bit.
Our attorney does a lot of people contact him for assistance, and I
think sometimes he's able to help them settle things before they proceed because of the
law. So now anyone can do whatever they want in terms of planting.
I need a plant guard in their front yard. Well, you know,
because of the rules of the hoas, they oftentimes they have to get approval
for their plant garden or whatever. And I'm sure there's some issues around that,
but there they But the HOA can't say no anything. They can't say
no anymore. What does the laws They can't say you have to have turf
grass? What does the law specifically say though exactly? Like what like if
say, say you're you live in Maryland and you do this and the HOA
is still fucking with you, what would you say? So it's a you
know that it says that you have to be allowed to have environmentally friendly low
impact landscaping is what they call it mm HM. And so they're ring gardens.
They have like something called biohabitat gardens. So someone still might have to
go to court, but they would the laws on their side. Now basically
they stand would probably not get to court because their lawyer would see that there's
a law that says they can't do and show it to the HOA and be
like, Okay, if you want to really pursue this, good luck.
You don't have much chance, right yeah, And you know, and the
law may have to be perfected over time. That's what often happens with laws.
There might have to be changes because you know, maybe they're loopholes.
I don't know, and I think time will tell. But for now,
it's a it's a good start. Virginia's working on one, and New York
mains the one. So who would have thought like in the northeast is where
it would start because I normally think the most native plant move been starting in
California. That's where it's so big, That's where it just doesn't make sense
to have the lawn of that, especially how dry it is. But you
guys, fifty inches of rainfall a year average, You guys can actually get
away with it. You know, it doesn't make any sense. You still
get a ship ton of run off. Those roots don't go deep and pull
the water. It's much like just a parking lot. The water runs right
off, exactly, you know, whereas perenni native perennials hold that shit in
the roots go deep. They actually the soils like a dry sponge, pour
water on it. That's right, Yeah, like a dry sponge on a
water on a countertop like that sponge just to get saturated before water runs off
the sponge onto the countertop and starts flooding the kitchen. Like if imagine you're
pouring water on and out of a out of a you know, charrat or
something. That's yeah, that's that's what. And I do think like California,
maybe Arizona, Texas, Florida, they do have laws that help homeowners
with you know, landscaping. That's I don't know what they call it,
if it's low impact or environment in Texas doesn't okay, which is of course
I know, I know, I don't know why that comes up. I
can't. It's political. Texas is the type of place that like they would
use it. You can't use the words climate change or environmental it'll trigger people.
You have to just say, this is my property. You know,
that's what the state upholds. We know private property. It is my private
property. I like gardens, I like plants. Is what I want to
do, you know. So, but so they have some sort of laws
that help homeowners. But I think Maryland was the first one that said,
h O can't require So this is really a historic I mean it's like a
big fucking dealing. It is work. Yeah, absolutely, and so do
you So, I guess when did you know anything about that? When the
laws in Virginia and neighboring states new York state. So, Mary Katherine Cochrane
let us know earlier this year that somebody from New York had contacted her and
that they were working on something. I know that in Virginia, Nancy and
I are talking to people next month. I think there's a person trying really
hard. There's a group of people trying really hard to get something. That's
the east, that's in northeast vibement. I don't realize. I forget how
close the states are. Oh yeah, we're called the d M, v
DC, Maryland and Virginia. We were in Virginia for a little bit today
and we were in d C. We were in Maryland. Yeah, so
all right, well that's that's really cool. I got I hope this stuff
would go spread into the southeast because they need it down there. Yeah,
they really do. They need it in Texas too, because Texas is going
to be Texas is drying out, like we're on really low water reserves.
We're living on groundwater. Texas is where the more music, you know,
more rainfall east starts to dry out. That one hundredth meridian right runs right
through Texas, go west to one hundredth meridian starts getting dry, and that
line is supposed to shift eastward. Is climate change. Per season weather patterns
get all fucked up from increasing heat. So it's nuts where I live.
I mean, it's the lawn is still big. Like my neighbor just put
in a fucking sprinkler system. I can't believe it. Man, we had
these giant This dude had a giant, beautiful ebony Ebanopsis sevano. It's an
evergreen legume in his yard, beautiful tree. It puts out these little seed
pods that look like a tamarind kind of, but they're woody and they've got
these little like divids in them where the seeds go. Like it almost see
was like a keyboard, you know when they crack open. Beautiful tree,
beautiful and the fucking birds love them, hang out in them, and yeah,
add shade cover when it's one hundred and five. And this guy cut
it down. This guy cut it because I offered a planet tree from him.
I'm like, man, you got the old this lawn and like,
do you want a tree or something? It's so hot, and he's like,
well, actually we heard an old libity, but we put it down.
I was like, yeah, fucking more. I didn't I didn't say
anything. I was really nice, But in my mind, I'm thinking,
it's why would trees? Why would you do that in a place. I
mean, if you lived in like a cold redwood forest or something. I
can't understand why. And let some sunlight in. But Jesus christ, man,
it was so And then the guy across the street from me, it's
like this four hundred pound dude that runs an adult daycare. I tried to
plant the trees on the that's a big scheme down where I live, the
adult daycares because you get that, yeah, because it's the Hispanic communities.
You know, the families, the grandparents live with the family for a long
time, but they you know, maybe the parents, the the you know
people the millage people got to go to work. Stick the stick their you
know, geriatric mom and dad with the adult daycare pick them up after that
kind of thing. But but people like it because you get that government.
You know, you get the medicaid. You can take Medicaid. So it's
a real big hustle down there. So uh and they're really low. You
don't have to put much work into them. It's a scam, you know.
Yeah. So but anyway, so this guy, you know, I
tried to plant trees on on the the what they call the health strip in
other areas of the room, you know, between the sidewalk and the street.
And this guy freaked out and didn't like it and tried to tell me
it was his property. And I was like, man, I'm not an
idiot. I know it's not your property. I can clearly see on the
property lines at the end the city property. And so he called the cops.
I mean, I was like go cool the fucking cops. I don't
care. Yeah, I'd love to talk to the cops about this. I
love talking to fucking cops. I have fun with it. Yeah, let
me tell you about plan evolution and native plants. I'll fucking run my mouth.
I'll watch you get annoyed. I'll watch the life drain out of your
eyes until you just like, get the fuck out of here. I will
talk to the fucking cops. My friend Alan Rockfethers is the same shit as
at my colleges. Talk to the fucking cops. Talk to them. Fuck
this. No, I don't know, fifth them out. I don't open
my mouth. No, talk to them and just fucking let them bore them
to tears until they're just trying to get you away. So I talked to
the cop, and the cop was very clearly annoyed. He's like, why
the fuck am I here? And this guy was trying to you know,
you know, all angry and shit, and I was just sitting there laughing
at him, and you know, and then oh, because the city doesn't
allow for it. And I went to this city and told them, and
I'm like, you know, i'd like the plant trees. I can get
grants to do this. I can get volunteers. It's it's hot as fuck
here. They provide shade for cars. And the people at the city,
you know, just they're all there, probably because their brother worked there and
got them a job or something. They don't really interest in doing it.
Yeah, they're totally incompetent and not very smart unfortunately, which is the kind
of the reality where I live. There's there's bad education. And so they
were just they said, no, we don't allow for that. That's code
enforcement doesn't allow. The city they don't allow. They don't allow planting street
trees, like I'm not about spacing, no planting at all. And I
said, but there's already trees on the street and these They looked at me
and this this woman, I couldn't. I looked into her eyes and I
could just see this vacant like, you know, and she's like, well,
they've always been there, They've always been there, They've what the how
did they get there? They've always since when have they been there? The
fucking car? But at first, when have they been there? I was
just at that moment, I was like, holy shit, gate mob,
what the fuck am I working with here? I'm not gonna get very fun.
So it's that kind of thing. So I think I just had to
start going to city council meetings and getting enough people on the y they're people
in your community who And then my friend, my friend Betty Perez, she's
like sixty five Native plant lady, and they mowed her garden down. They
just wanted to mow her garden down because she doesn't live there. You know,
it's like her mom's house. She doesn't know what to do with it.
She lives out in the country with a bunch of dogs, and she
wasn't getting the notices and same thing. They sent her a thing maintain it.
She's like, all right, she goes and maintains it. It's so
vague. What does that? What that meant when someone does me to maintain
something, you don't think they mean destroy it, right, So the city
just went in and fucking mowed everything. It was like, God, damn,
bet you should sue them. Sue the fucking city. They destroyed your
guard. They destrot all these cool plants, and and then now this ash
tree is dying because you know, you you expose all that ground to that
intense heat in sunlight going to That's the other thing about plants that people don't
realize, that transpirational cooling effect, especially in hotter climates. That's how it
works, right, that's evaporative cooling. You get moisture evaporating out of those
little tiny microscopic pores in the leaves, and that's how the plant cools itself.
It's also how it lets in carbon dioxide and lets out oxygen, and
that's that creates a cooling effect. If you ride your bike by a city
block, that's you know, like a bunch of vacant lots or a field
or something like not not like a field of lawn, but like a field
in the plant much cool A twenty degrees cools than a parking lot and a
strip mall. You know. It's but that's what these code enforcers. It's
not just Stoa's, it's these cities across the country. There was an elderly
lady in Mississippi who contacted me a couple months ago, and she's just heartbroken
because she got one of those notices. Her neighbors had complained and her yard
looked totally fine. I mean, I don't know who would complain about it.
Their yard was like dirt she should and they kept threatening her. And
I don't know ultimately what's happened, but she kept trying to you guys,
I think through the times probably yeah, but yeah, we get you know,
people reach out and you get a lot of people reaching out to you.
What are the cases have you heard that have like really struggle with you
that you've you've been like, damn that one really reading hearing about that really
well? I mean she really did she really Yeah, kind of broke my
heart because she she loved her yard, she'd lived there for years, and
because of the complaints of these one neighbor and the city council, this group
of old white guys, you know, just tell her you know you were
going to do and you know, and they didn't give her proper notice.
And so she was smart and on the ball and she was trying to do
whatever she could. But tell them to contact me. I'll put on my
Instagram stories. I should actually have something on my website, like just a
stock letter, like you know, like a just a letter written where you
could fill in the blanks, copy and paste, you know, alter it
in case you need something quick. If the city's talking with you. Like
these are native plants. Here's what they do, Here's where they are important,
Here's the benefits. Is what we talked about before. Joe said,
when people don't care, they don't care. When they've decided that it's the
lawn, you can tell them all the benefits in the world. And then
a community like where she lived. Yeah, they may not listen, but
at least you get it on the record. Yeah, I know that's true.
You have something to start with, you know, Like that's what I
do with some lawyers I've had before. I know that they're going to competent,
they don't give a shit. At least they get it on the record,
right, so there's email history of what's happening doing it. Yeah,
I should do something like that. You should. Yeah. Do you see
do you see things changing? You see like the culture changing slowly in other
places that you've heard of where people are fighting for it that I mean,
fighting for laws and other places. Yeah, and you know there you see
these articles all the time. I saw one a few weeks ago, I
think it was in the Times about people spending you know, sixty or seventy
or eighty thousand dollars at California Colorado to you know, put together their native
plant gardens and you know, for the climate and whatever. Yeah, but
I think regular folks are too. I mean a lot of people are.
When you go to the local nurseries, there's a lot of interest. I
mean over at Laurens where you visited yesterday, they they run you know,
they sell plants. So if it looks like it, at least give a
shout out to them. Lawrence lat Yeah, in Columbia, it's in uh
it's technically rw No. I think Elic City or glenelg. Yeah. I
was impressed. Man, Oh it's lovely. I mean, what a beautiful
spot to go and shop for native plants. Hering run nurses. She's cool
too, she knows her shit. I was there like five PAMs, like
drinking a little bit of whiskey out of the thing, Like didn't. I
had a temper tantrum about something because one of the landscapers we thought they were
using crocus and Hamerocallis. I was like, are you fucking kidding? I
found out it wasn't actually real. It wasn't It was an old they'd updated
the list. But I saw the place for one for one of the houses
they were gonna we were supposed to do. I saw the landscaping list and
fucking hmericals was on there like a trash, like a it's invasive. It's
a tree in front of the bank and fucking you know, there's summers just
that garbage. And I was like, what the fuck, because I was
we had a bad we had a couple bad well, it was really just
one bad landscaper last time, last four episodes in Chicago, and this guy
was just you know, the the guy was a bee keeper. The homeowner
was really cool. Guy. I wanted to plant a bunch of natives.
The landscaper was just kind of arrogant. Then listen to it. Planted like
sixty percent grasses and sedges, which are wind pollinated. They're of completely no
use to a bee keeper, you know what invasive European honeybees. But some
people like keeping whatever you whatever, they'll be they'll be native bees that come
in for them. Yeah, and the guy and we saw like we're doing
a show. Do you understand what the point the reason you're hired and you're
getting paid forty fucking thousand dollars, that's the part of the show. I
don't like it's like, this is not that's not my style. This is
not you know, the the production company pays is like one sixth of that.
The homeowner pays the rest. You know, she's pissed out. Let's
figure it out. But but you know, so I was like, you're
doing this because you're part of a show. It's not just your free reign.
This isn't your ego. This is a group effort about native plants.
And you didn't even pick like the nice grasses like pogon, big blue stem
or you know, beautiful stuff. Yeah, so it was just it was
just a weird thing. Oh she's getting I love that sound cats make when
they're pissed up. I saw a video once of these two bobcats trying to
like I think it was two male bobcats squaring off on a trail cam,
and the sounds they were making was hilarious. But but yeah, I don't
know, man, I just I'm I'm hoping this movement continues to grow and
I see it. I certainly see more people getting into it. I see
I see that it's you know, what needs to happen is people need to
realize that this isn't it's not just a hobby. And it's not just about
viewing plants as attractive. It's about, you know, realizing your place as
part of a larger living network and the philosophical framework that that gives you for
life. It's really really enriching. It's not just about it. I like
the guide and I like the pretty flowers. It's no, I like all
this watching all this stuff come to my yard. I like planting with intention.
I like, yeah, and we're all connected and learning about plants to
learning about the fucking species. I get a chance to learn about a plant
by watching it grow throughout its life cycle in my fucking garden, and if
it's not doing well in one spot, you can move it to another spot.
You write it all about how it works, and that you put system
in your yard. And if it croaks, I wonder why. I may
get in the flight and there's a pest may there's nothing I can do?
Okay, whatever, I get some It's a it's a really fun and just
enriching thing. And I think it could really help a lot of other people's
mental health too, if they got the chance to do that. You know,
agree completely, Yeah, it's amazing. So I really think it's incredible
what you guys did. When I when I heard more about it, I
was like, I got to get these guys on the podcast. Yeah,
thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you, No, thank you.
Yeah, it's been a treat meeting you. And now he took an
average tired Yeah. We should mention it's like eight pm on a Sunday night.
So all right, well that's all I got. Thank you guys,
And where where can people read about this? There's a New York Times article.
It's called they fought the lawn and the lawns Gone or the lawns done?
Anything else? You guys want to say anything else in there? What?
No, we've been on TV shows, but I don't know those.
So it's really the New York Times and Washington Post we were in. But
just it's just uh, just you know, try to advocate for these laws
and the uh in your state. And if you're that's the biggest thing you
can do is advocate for your estate. Yeah, and if h O A
comes for you, fight back and don't give a back, don't you settle
quick? Well? You know, I just wanted to ton, I wanted
to just do a little review of the Crouch's couch. Okay, I had
a wonderful experience there. I entered a dream like, dreamlike state. You
know. It's a long white leather number, quite plush. I was able
to fully extend. And I'm a big guy, you know, so I
was able to really stretch the hips out, really reached with defeat. Would
you like to comment on the dinner they gave us. We were met with
the lovely Chinese, as they'd say in the UK. You know, it
was a little bit of chicken carry out. It was so good. It's
making me think of the more Chinese food we might get on the write home.
It is so good. That cat was trying to start ship with the
I feel bad for the cat. It's like, you can tell Tina's pretty
mild manner. Yeah. I thought it was space though, and she's like,
oh god, this might go bad. We might need to wrap this.
That's all I would rest your night day more than whatever. Go fund yourself pipe