171 | The Art of Understanding: Mastering the 'Why' in Child-Centered Play Therapy

0
00:00:00,409 --> 00:00:04,289
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

1
00:00:04,300 --> 00:00:08,119
Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

2
00:00:08,449 --> 00:00:10,710
Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

3
00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,239
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in child-centered,

4
00:00:14,250 --> 00:00:15,119
play therapy

5
00:00:15,229 --> 00:00:17,500
and practical support and application for your

6
00:00:17,510 --> 00:00:19,149
work with children and their families.

7
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,270
In today's episode. I am answering a question from Ethan in Virginia

8
00:00:23,799 --> 00:00:28,579
and this is actually a pretty big question. So

9
00:00:28,889 --> 00:00:30,870
I want you all to

10
00:00:31,180 --> 00:00:32,470
really kind of

11
00:00:32,790 --> 00:00:35,840
maybe hold off on listening to this until you're

12
00:00:35,849 --> 00:00:37,569
at a place where you can really digest it,

13
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,150
you know, away from distractions internally and externally.

14
00:00:41,380 --> 00:00:43,389
And you can just really kind of let this

15
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,540
sink in because he's talking about knowing the why

16
00:00:47,319 --> 00:00:48,630
in the playroom and

17
00:00:48,740 --> 00:00:50,150
with the child's behaviors.

18
00:00:51,060 --> 00:00:53,580
This is something that I talk about a lot.

19
00:00:53,590 --> 00:00:57,790
My, my team at the center is constantly going hashtag the why matters.

20
00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,599
So everyone in my life knows how much I focus on the why.

21
00:01:03,470 --> 00:01:09,930
But Ethan's actually kind of really questioning how to develop this as a skill

22
00:01:10,169 --> 00:01:14,610
and I don't know that I have like one hard and fast set of answers,

23
00:01:14,620 --> 00:01:17,449
but I will certainly share my thoughts and things that I

24
00:01:17,459 --> 00:01:21,169
think will maybe pave the way to getting to that point.

25
00:01:21,180 --> 00:01:25,129
So let me read parts of his email and then we'll dive into some of the discussion.

26
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,739
I was hoping you could talk a little bit about how a clinician can better, as you say,

27
00:01:29,750 --> 00:01:32,580
quote, know the why behind a child's behavior,

28
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,620
knowing the why or intention is not an easy thing to figure out,

29
00:01:36,629 --> 00:01:38,989
especially for a less experienced clinician.

30
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:39,029
At

31
00:01:39,410 --> 00:01:42,250
least for me, it's not something that just comes naturally.

32
00:01:42,540 --> 00:01:45,550
It's difficult to know what they need when a child throws

33
00:01:45,559 --> 00:01:48,470
something at my face and then laughs or what they need.

34
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,849
When they're asking me, how much time do we have left

35
00:01:51,110 --> 00:01:53,959
as there could be many reasons or see the

36
00:01:53,970 --> 00:01:56,139
need when they bury something in the sand tray,

37
00:01:56,930 --> 00:02:01,339
I ultimately want to be able to understand and see those needs behind the behavior

38
00:02:01,519 --> 00:02:04,069
so that I can provide the deeper reflections that

39
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,230
I see very skilled CCPT practitioners do.

40
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,470
I've heard beautiful examples of therapists do this,

41
00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:12,389
especially experienced ones.

42
00:02:12,399 --> 00:02:14,970
But I was hoping to know if there was a particular way

43
00:02:14,979 --> 00:02:19,860
to know the why or develop one's ability to be more proficiently,

44
00:02:20,429 --> 00:02:22,309
sorry to be more proficient

45
00:02:22,410 --> 00:02:26,360
in understanding the why behind a child's play behavior rather than

46
00:02:26,369 --> 00:02:29,250
it just being something that comes from years of experience.

47
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,130
So, Ethan, thank you so much.

48
00:02:32,139 --> 00:02:35,199
I think this is a really helpful thing to dive into and again,

49
00:02:35,210 --> 00:02:39,179
I don't know that this is a comprehensive one stop shop kind of answer,

50
00:02:39,559 --> 00:02:44,660
but I do want to kind of give some broad picture thoughts about this issue. So

51
00:02:45,509 --> 00:02:48,710
yes, 100% knowing the why is important.

52
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:49,990
However,

53
00:02:52,039 --> 00:02:56,309
there is research that has proven that even when you don't

54
00:02:56,619 --> 00:03:00,910
speak the same language as a child in a playroom, play therapy still works.

55
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,100
Even when a child doesn't speak to you the entire time in the playroom,

56
00:03:06,110 --> 00:03:07,740
play therapy still works.

57
00:03:08,529 --> 00:03:13,490
Even when the child sits with their back to you and ignores you for 20 weeks straight.

58
00:03:14,250 --> 00:03:15,800
Play therapy still works.

59
00:03:16,839 --> 00:03:21,820
So I think I want to start with the reminder or the

60
00:03:22,259 --> 00:03:23,639
encouragement. Maybe

61
00:03:25,139 --> 00:03:27,600
that while the why matters,

62
00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,580
we don't always need to understand the why

63
00:03:31,899 --> 00:03:33,979
because the child inherently does

64
00:03:35,929 --> 00:03:39,970
the beauty of the child-centered process is we trust the child.

65
00:03:40,570 --> 00:03:43,669
Yes, of course, we trust ourselves, we trust the process,

66
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:45,300
however,

67
00:03:45,619 --> 00:03:48,899
we trust the child. So if the child is doing something

68
00:03:49,339 --> 00:03:51,860
either consciously or subconsciously,

69
00:03:52,949 --> 00:03:55,399
they need to do it and there's a why there.

70
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,779
So even if we don't understand the why

71
00:04:00,710 --> 00:04:03,009
and we use a reflective response,

72
00:04:04,059 --> 00:04:05,520
it allows the child

73
00:04:05,630 --> 00:04:07,339
to process what they need to.

74
00:04:08,500 --> 00:04:12,800
So we may not fully understand why a child is playing a certain way

75
00:04:13,210 --> 00:04:16,119
or what significance that play has for the child.

76
00:04:16,309 --> 00:04:20,269
Doctor Landreth mentions that sometimes we never understand what's going on.

77
00:04:21,510 --> 00:04:27,010
We don't need to as long as we use the child-centered play therapy skills

78
00:04:27,890 --> 00:04:31,559
and communicate back to the child a reflective response.

79
00:04:32,500 --> 00:04:36,359
So let me go through your examples Ethan that you gave. So the first,

80
00:04:36,950 --> 00:04:38,619
it's difficult to know what they need when a

81
00:04:38,630 --> 00:04:40,920
child throws something at my face and then laughs.

82
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:41,920
Ok,

83
00:04:42,589 --> 00:04:44,750
so we can track behavior,

84
00:04:46,250 --> 00:04:47,589
we can

85
00:04:47,950 --> 00:04:49,429
reflect an emotion

86
00:04:50,549 --> 00:04:53,769
or we can give a narrative commentary about what happened.

87
00:04:56,059 --> 00:04:58,390
And even if we don't understand the why

88
00:04:59,660 --> 00:05:02,600
all of those responses are therapeutically valuable

89
00:05:02,929 --> 00:05:06,640
and they will help the child eventually learn to self control and self regulate.

90
00:05:07,350 --> 00:05:08,059
Why?

91
00:05:08,250 --> 00:05:11,170
Because if a child throws something at your head and laughs,

92
00:05:11,290 --> 00:05:13,130
that's dysregulated behavior.

93
00:05:14,690 --> 00:05:16,910
But we know that one of the four universal

94
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,829
outcomes of child centered play therapy is increased regulation.

95
00:05:22,359 --> 00:05:25,850
So just by using a reflective response and not knowing the

96
00:05:25,859 --> 00:05:28,420
why and not communicating the why back to the child,

97
00:05:28,929 --> 00:05:31,420
the child will naturally develop some self control.

98
00:05:32,559 --> 00:05:33,970
Ok. Second scenario,

99
00:05:34,380 --> 00:05:37,399
what they need when they're asking me, how much time do they have left?

100
00:05:39,260 --> 00:05:39,899
Ok.

101
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,899
There are several reasons that a child could be asking how much time there is left.

102
00:05:44,510 --> 00:05:47,000
But in that scenario, you can reflect content

103
00:05:47,420 --> 00:05:48,880
or you can reflect a feeling

104
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,779
or you can provide narrative commentary

105
00:05:55,429 --> 00:05:57,309
in any of those scenarios.

106
00:05:58,559 --> 00:06:01,820
The child knows that you're engaged, you're present

107
00:06:02,299 --> 00:06:06,160
and you're fully focused on what their experiences are in that moment.

108
00:06:08,859 --> 00:06:10,690
They will naturally sort that out.

109
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:14,600
Final example,

110
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,559
they're burying something in the sand tray.

111
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,679
Again, several reasons that children bury things.

112
00:06:21,950 --> 00:06:23,750
So you're going to track behavior

113
00:06:24,660 --> 00:06:27,040
or you're going to reflect a feeling

114
00:06:27,510 --> 00:06:28,799
if one is evident

115
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,320
or you're going to provide narrative commentary.

116
00:06:33,250 --> 00:06:36,019
And again, whether consciously or subconsciously,

117
00:06:36,029 --> 00:06:38,220
the child knows why they're burying things.

118
00:06:38,899 --> 00:06:42,540
It will naturally allow them to process whatever's going

119
00:06:42,549 --> 00:06:45,119
on until they no longer need to bury things.

120
00:06:47,290 --> 00:06:49,649
So I think what I'm trying to

121
00:06:49,750 --> 00:06:50,959
hit home here

122
00:06:51,170 --> 00:06:52,329
is that

123
00:06:53,359 --> 00:06:55,579
when we don't know the why

124
00:06:56,630 --> 00:06:59,529
we always have an option to respond

125
00:07:00,010 --> 00:07:01,450
therapeutically appropriately.

126
00:07:02,829 --> 00:07:04,779
But your question specifically,

127
00:07:05,519 --> 00:07:07,670
is there a particular way to know the why

128
00:07:07,679 --> 00:07:11,489
or develop one's ability to more proficiently understand the why

129
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,519
behind a child's play behavior?

130
00:07:13,820 --> 00:07:14,309
Ok.

131
00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:16,140
Here are my thoughts on that

132
00:07:17,570 --> 00:07:20,230
default back to what you already know

133
00:07:20,779 --> 00:07:21,959
big picture.

134
00:07:23,190 --> 00:07:23,720
So

135
00:07:25,410 --> 00:07:28,750
all of us either are in graduate school if

136
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,579
you haven't graduated yet or you are postgraduate.

137
00:07:31,589 --> 00:07:34,500
So you all have been in a graduate program

138
00:07:35,059 --> 00:07:37,540
and you've all taken basic counseling courses.

139
00:07:39,070 --> 00:07:39,589
It's,

140
00:07:39,790 --> 00:07:42,329
I guess in other countries, you don't have to have a counseling background.

141
00:07:42,339 --> 00:07:44,250
So I know in Australia that's not always the case,

142
00:07:44,450 --> 00:07:47,910
but for all of us in the States and for most people around the world,

143
00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,730
if you are doing play therapy,

144
00:07:49,739 --> 00:07:52,369
you have had counseling or therapy or social work

145
00:07:52,380 --> 00:07:54,970
or psychology or some kind of mental health background

146
00:07:55,279 --> 00:07:56,890
in graduate school. Ok.

147
00:07:57,190 --> 00:07:57,859
So

148
00:07:58,049 --> 00:08:00,929
yes, most of us were not trained in working with kids.

149
00:08:00,940 --> 00:08:03,399
Most of us were not trained in play therapy.

150
00:08:03,690 --> 00:08:04,890
But that said

151
00:08:05,450 --> 00:08:06,709
we were trained in

152
00:08:06,910 --> 00:08:08,070
interpreting

153
00:08:08,559 --> 00:08:10,019
interactions with clients.

154
00:08:11,609 --> 00:08:15,850
So fall back on big picture awareness of human behavior.

155
00:08:16,619 --> 00:08:19,480
What do we know when someone does something?

156
00:08:19,489 --> 00:08:22,679
And then immediately laughs, even though the scenario isn't funny,

157
00:08:25,589 --> 00:08:29,929
that's a pretty standard behavior that we see. Even in adults,

158
00:08:30,769 --> 00:08:33,260
people that giggle when they're nervous. For example,

159
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,500
we see that behavior, they do something

160
00:08:37,830 --> 00:08:41,299
and they're laughing, but they don't actually find anything funny.

161
00:08:43,087 --> 00:08:49,208
We can fall back on base knowledge of human behavior. It does not have to be

162
00:08:49,578 --> 00:08:50,989
what was going on.

163
00:08:50,999 --> 00:08:53,408
When that particular child in that moment,

164
00:08:53,419 --> 00:08:55,999
threw that toy at my face and then laughed.

165
00:08:56,518 --> 00:08:59,119
What do we know a person is doing

166
00:09:00,010 --> 00:09:02,590
if they do something? And then they immediately laugh,

167
00:09:05,049 --> 00:09:08,159
they know that what they did was something they shouldn't have done.

168
00:09:09,130 --> 00:09:11,219
So they're trying to soften it with the laugh.

169
00:09:11,229 --> 00:09:13,460
They're trying to make sure they're not going to get in trouble.

170
00:09:13,590 --> 00:09:16,489
They're trying to diffuse the intensity of your reaction.

171
00:09:17,250 --> 00:09:21,320
They feel remorse and guilt, but they don't have the courage to say, oh, sorry.

172
00:09:21,330 --> 00:09:22,419
So they giggle

173
00:09:22,719 --> 00:09:26,200
because they're hoping that that's gonna be enough to pacify the situation.

174
00:09:27,570 --> 00:09:30,849
You don't have to understand specificity of that moment

175
00:09:31,059 --> 00:09:34,539
to understand what's likely driving that behavior in the child.

176
00:09:35,299 --> 00:09:36,280
Similarly,

177
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,489
when they ask how much time is left,

178
00:09:39,630 --> 00:09:42,969
what do we know when people ask us questions

179
00:09:43,179 --> 00:09:44,219
for facts?

180
00:09:45,770 --> 00:09:48,150
They're typically people that don't like surprises.

181
00:09:48,299 --> 00:09:52,080
They're typically people that want to have control and power over situations,

182
00:09:52,650 --> 00:09:55,270
often they're highly anxious individuals

183
00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,280
and they don't want to be caught off guard or deal with something that's unexpected.

184
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,799
So, rather than waiting for a five minute warning and a two minute warning,

185
00:10:03,809 --> 00:10:05,890
if a child is saying how much time do we have left?

186
00:10:07,049 --> 00:10:10,030
There's usually an anxiety or a power and

187
00:10:10,039 --> 00:10:12,780
control route there that's just human behavior.

188
00:10:13,849 --> 00:10:17,190
Go with the flow. People don't need to seek information,

189
00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,719
power and anxious. People

190
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,929
want information because they want to be able to be in control of things.

191
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,859
So again, big picture human behavior, why

192
00:10:29,359 --> 00:10:30,590
we fall back on that.

193
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,739
So as far as how you can more proficiently understand the why

194
00:10:37,719 --> 00:10:42,010
I would start with thinking about motives

195
00:10:42,140 --> 00:10:46,450
and what we know about traditional emotions and behaviors

196
00:10:46,940 --> 00:10:48,950
in humanity as a whole.

197
00:10:50,039 --> 00:10:52,460
And then you start to go from there.

198
00:10:52,469 --> 00:10:55,380
Another thing that you can do and this is one of the things we talk about

199
00:10:55,539 --> 00:10:58,380
in my coaching program a lot because I watch

200
00:10:58,390 --> 00:11:00,739
play session videos every single week with them.

201
00:11:01,140 --> 00:11:04,500
And so as we're watching the participants videos,

202
00:11:04,929 --> 00:11:08,340
one of the things that we focus on is OK, what do we know

203
00:11:08,650 --> 00:11:09,460
about

204
00:11:09,739 --> 00:11:12,219
what is driving this kind of behavior?

205
00:11:13,359 --> 00:11:14,500
What do we know

206
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:15,320
when

207
00:11:15,619 --> 00:11:20,179
we have an anxious child? What are they likely going to do as an antidote to anxiety?

208
00:11:21,359 --> 00:11:22,539
Grasp for power?

209
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,659
So one of the things you can do. That's very helpful

210
00:11:26,099 --> 00:11:32,380
is to not think about specific situations, but think about broad picture analysis.

211
00:11:33,260 --> 00:11:36,359
So highly anxious people typically want control.

212
00:11:37,409 --> 00:11:39,270
Those are a hand in hand thing.

213
00:11:39,409 --> 00:11:42,570
So if we see huge power and control needs in a playroom,

214
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:45,210
there's often a connection to anxiety.

215
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,559
If we see huge levels of anxiety in a playroom,

216
00:11:48,619 --> 00:11:52,070
there's often manifestation of power and control grabs.

217
00:11:52,940 --> 00:11:56,619
So you start to connect the dots in big picture ways

218
00:11:56,780 --> 00:11:58,900
and then it allows you to pare that down

219
00:11:58,909 --> 00:12:02,460
to be very specific with specific kids in specific situations

220
00:12:02,630 --> 00:12:04,880
and specific moments in the playroom.

221
00:12:06,090 --> 00:12:07,950
So Ethan, I hope that you find that helpful.

222
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,570
I hope that that kind of gives you at least a place to start

223
00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:15,130
and you are correct in that it is something that comes from years of experience.

224
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,280
So the more you spend time in the playroom, the more you do child center play therapy,

225
00:12:20,289 --> 00:12:22,309
the more kids you have sessions with

226
00:12:22,909 --> 00:12:27,080
it will naturally be easier and easier to do if you work at

227
00:12:27,539 --> 00:12:27,559
it.

228
00:12:27,570 --> 00:12:33,559
I think my disclaimer there is it is not something that gets easier just by doing it.

229
00:12:34,140 --> 00:12:38,539
For example, like bowling is known that the more you do it, the better you get,

230
00:12:38,549 --> 00:12:43,770
even with no coaching, no training, no skills, you just the more you bowl,

231
00:12:43,780 --> 00:12:44,679
the better you get,

232
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,159
there's a natural increase in skill just by doing it,

233
00:12:49,510 --> 00:12:54,169
figuring out the why in the playroom from a child-centered theoretical model,

234
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:58,130
you don't get better at it just because you're in the playroom,

235
00:12:58,479 --> 00:13:02,250
you get better at it because you work at figuring out the why.

236
00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:07,469
So if you continue to put in the effort and you continue to connect the dots,

237
00:13:08,419 --> 00:13:12,710
it will be very helpful for you as you build that skill, but

238
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,609
start big picture and then work your way down to more specificity.

239
00:13:17,650 --> 00:13:20,000
I think that's probably the easiest path

240
00:13:20,169 --> 00:13:21,700
to being able to figure out the why.

241
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:23,130
All right,

242
00:13:23,469 --> 00:13:26,989
I hope that's helpful to all of you. Thank you for hanging out. By the way, if

243
00:13:27,109 --> 00:13:27,119
a

244
00:13:27,489 --> 00:13:30,700
lot of you have been kind of on the fence about

245
00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:35,349
joining the Collective, especially Ethan with a question like yours

246
00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:39,030
when we go over play session videos in the Collective,

247
00:13:39,039 --> 00:13:41,200
when we have Q&A twice a week,

248
00:13:41,419 --> 00:13:46,349
these are the moments where you have those aha moments and those

249
00:13:46,359 --> 00:13:49,950
insight moments where you start to rea realize what connects with what.

250
00:13:50,419 --> 00:13:52,809
And I really do think that for those of you that maybe have

251
00:13:52,820 --> 00:13:56,210
been on the fence or you're really wanting to build up your skills,

252
00:13:56,409 --> 00:13:59,919
give the collective a try ccptcollective.com

253
00:14:00,169 --> 00:14:01,669
and you get a two week free trial.

254
00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,140
I really do think that you all would benefit from that.

255
00:14:04,369 --> 00:14:08,000
We have about 110 people in there and gosh, we have fun.

256
00:14:08,010 --> 00:14:10,520
So I would love to see you in there. I think that,

257
00:14:10,739 --> 00:14:15,979
that is really one of the most consistent ways that you figure stuff like this out

258
00:14:16,369 --> 00:14:19,729
is when you're around, more experienced veteran CCPTs

259
00:14:20,049 --> 00:14:22,330
and you hear them talk and you hear them explain

260
00:14:22,340 --> 00:14:24,390
and you watch their videos and you go oh,

261
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,219
ok.

262
00:14:25,229 --> 00:14:27,390
I never thought about it like that before. That makes sense.

263
00:14:27,809 --> 00:14:31,150
It's just those aha moments that start to put everything in place.

264
00:14:31,309 --> 00:14:34,679
So I really do encourage you if you have kind of been thinking about it,

265
00:14:35,010 --> 00:14:36,630
you may wanna check the Collective out.

266
00:14:36,770 --> 00:14:37,390
It's

267
00:14:37,659 --> 00:14:41,669
a great place to be. We have so much fun, so much discussion going on,

268
00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:44,890
lots of comments from podcast episodes.

269
00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:48,280
So if you're my podcast listener, you will be right at home in the Collective.

270
00:14:48,619 --> 00:14:50,979
So just check that out if you're considering it,

271
00:14:51,489 --> 00:14:53,679
love y'all grateful for each to every one of you.

272
00:14:53,690 --> 00:14:55,900
If you want to reach out to me, I'd love to hear from you,

273
00:14:55,909 --> 00:14:57,989
brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

274
00:14:58,229 --> 00:15:01,500
Send me a question, send me a hello, send me a

275
00:15:01,710 --> 00:15:02,659
whatever,

276
00:15:03,210 --> 00:15:06,820
mail me something I don't care, whatever. Just surprise me. You know, I love y'all.

277
00:15:06,830 --> 00:15:08,239
We'll talk again soon. Bye.

278
00:15:09,150 --> 00:15:12,059
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr

279
00:15:12,159 --> 00:15:15,289
Brenna Hicks. For more episodes and resources.

280
00:15:15,299 --> 00:15:20,200
Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.