The science-fiction legacy of Satyajit Ray

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Physics World. Hello. And welcome to the Physics

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World Stories podcast. I'm Andrew Lester. In this

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episode, we're gonna be exploring the life and

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work of Satyajit Ray. In the Physics World

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magazine this month and on physics world dot

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com, you'll find a feature by Andrew Robinson

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delving into the life and work of the

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famed Bengali film director

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who blended art and science. Ray was born

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in Calcutta in 1921,

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and as we'll hear was not just a

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film director, but also an established author, essayist,

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magazine editor,

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illustrator,

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calligrapher,

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and music composer.

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Between 1955

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and 1991,

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he directed almost 30 features as well as

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short films and documentaries.

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He won an Oscar and other leading prizes

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at international film festivals. But don't take my

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word for it. Last year, on the centenary

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of Ray's birth, the American film director Martin

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Scorsese

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said that his films are truly treasures

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of cinema,

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and everyone

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with an interest in film needs to see

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them. Andrew Robinson joins us for this episode

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of the podcast,

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and we'll hear about the influence that Satyajit

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Ray has had on physicists who've loved his

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work since they were children. One such physicist

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is Momita Dasgupta,

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who'll join us later in the podcast.

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And we'll hear about how one film, the

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alien, that wasn't quite made

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has caused a little bit of controversy surrounding

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Steven Spielberg.

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That's all to come.

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This podcast is sponsored by the GNBKL

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Here's Andrew Robinson.

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He he was a very serious,

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success as a as a science fiction

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writer in Bengali.

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I mean, there's a there's a character called

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professor Shonku who is

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based on,

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Conan Doyle, I think, and other writers in

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the past,

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and he's

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been quite a success in in Bengali.

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And then there's a detective

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that's created by Ray who,

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called Feluda, who is

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also he made films about him, and the

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detective is a scientist as well in in

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in his

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rational attitude to his

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to finding criminals and dealing with them.

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And I think those are rather famous

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books even

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in, the rest of India, not just in

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Bengal where Ray comes from because they've all

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been translated into English.

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And a lot of young people know Ray

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because of his

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children's writing, so to speak, his detective

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writing, which is also enjoyed by adults too.

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Tell me about him as a person. Were

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you knowing him more than most, I guess?

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Yeah. He was he was a very private

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man,

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despite being a film director.

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Some people thought he was a loner.

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I mean, he did have a family,

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but

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he, from an early age, was a single

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child.

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No brothers and sisters because his father died

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when he was very young,

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and so there weren't any more in the

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family. And he grew up

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very

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much, as an only child reading

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and drawing

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a lot,

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and becoming a really fine illustrator.

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And I got to know him, of course,

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much later in life when he was, you

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know, very well known and had

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become a,

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a very successful director, not only in India,

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but also abroad.

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So it was a rather different

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experience from meeting him when he was younger,

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but I could see the young person still

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in the way he would sit for many,

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many, many hours alone working

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at home.

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And he said I always feel more creative

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when I'm in my chair in Calcutta.

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So although he traveled the world, he really

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liked to be sitting in his chair in

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Calcutta. But then he would go to the

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studio,

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and he would work

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with a whole group of people,

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in a very social way,

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including actors like Richard Attenborough.

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He could work with a group,

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but he also spent a lot of time

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alone.

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And I was fascinated by that

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contrast

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because most film directors are sociable creatures. They

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have to be. Even if they don't want

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to be, they have to be to succeed.

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Ray managed to be both.

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He said I I seem

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a bit aristocratic when I'm at home alone,

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but I'm a complete

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democrat when I'm working in the studio.

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You know, everybody works together.

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And the other thing that I would like

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to say about him is he was a

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polymath.

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As a director, only Charles Chaplin

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did as much as Ray did in terms

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of producing a film. I mean, Ray did

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everything from writing the script

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to designing the sets to directing it, of

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course, and casting the actors, but he also

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composed the music.

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Chaplin did that.

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Very, very few other directors have done that

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successfully.

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He was behind the camera too through all

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his later films,

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so there are a lot of pictures of

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him hard at work behind the camera.

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And then he was a really successful writer

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of fiction

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and a magazine editor and a very talented

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illustrator who'd worked in for a British advertising

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company in Calcutta.

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And he he he had many other strings

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to his bow.

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And I think for that reason, he was

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immensely,

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intriguing if you were coming from abroad.

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How does somebody

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grow up like this in in a

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very crowded city,

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very alone, but also very involved,

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and very polymathic

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and somehow succeeding and surviving?

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He had very little money.

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He came from a family with a bit

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of money, but his father died

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and,

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he really grew up poor. There's no question.

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He had to have a job before he

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could get a work as a filmmaker,

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and that was his work as an advertising

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man.

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Okay.

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So maybe polymathary, if that's a word, is,

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is through necessity. I think it came naturally,

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but I think it helped him. I mean,

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there's no question that the ability to to

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draw,

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people, landscapes,

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cartoons,

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and his father is the most famous nonsense

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verse writer in Bengal. He's like Edward Lear

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or Lewis Carroll

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in Bengal.

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Shukumarai

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is just a household name.

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People still know his verses by heart.

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And so,

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Ray inherited

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some of those abilities, but he also

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created them as well by

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by by working hard.

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I got interested in him,

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I think, when I was a student really.

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I was studying chemistry,

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and

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I've been to India

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just in a gap between school and university

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to do a bit of teaching and, you

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know, I was pretty interested in India and

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and then

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he suddenly

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appeared

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in London

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in 1977,

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when I was sort of just entering my

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twenties. And he he came to the premiere

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of his

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rather fine

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historical drama, The Chess Players, with Richard Attenborough,

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playing a British general

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and some wonderful Indian actors like Syed Jaffray

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and Shabana Azmi.

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And there he was standing on the stage

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at the premiere in

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London's National Film Theatre launching this film, and

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it hadn't really been finished. So

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the subtitles didn't exist. So Syed Jaffray had

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to do an earphone commentary,

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and,

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he did it wonderfully well. His English was

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as good as he's all do. He was

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in the film, of course, but he was

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doing the commentary for all of this packed

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house.

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And Ray apparently had a pair of headphones,

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but he he was listening for the commentary.

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But then one of the usherettes said to

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him, could could I borrow them? And he

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was very decent. And he said, yes, you

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have them, and I'll just watch the film.

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Brilliant.

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So I got I got rather taken with

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him after seeing him on stage,

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with with his actor,

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and I got in touch with him eventually

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and said,

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I had a job in a publishing house.

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And I said, would you like to,

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write your autobiography?

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Which is a bit cheeky of me really

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because I I didn't really have the right

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to ask this, but he he he was

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quite friendly and he replied saying, I am

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so busy, but if I ever do write

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it, may I send the manuscript to you?

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So we got on to friendly

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written communication,

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and then I met him in person,

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in London in 1982, and and I interviewed

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him for a film magazine.

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And it went very well,

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and we spoke for more than 3 hours.

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And,

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I think that was the beginning of our

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our relationship, our friendship, really. And after that,

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I used to go and see him in

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India,

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watch him shooting his

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one of his famous films in the 1980s

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and I published the book I think in

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1989

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after a lot of work.

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So I've got a science background. My father

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was a physicist at Oxford,

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in electronics,

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and,

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I have to say he was not at

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all interested

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in in Ray.

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He was very interested in

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India.

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He had some Indian physicist friends, but not

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really in the cinema. He was not just

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not interested.

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So I know a lot of physicists probably

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00:10:44,254 --> 00:10:45,554
don't know who Ray is,

283
00:10:46,414 --> 00:10:49,475
frankly speaking, but some do. And

284
00:10:50,299 --> 00:10:52,699
it's fair to say that some quite well

285
00:10:52,699 --> 00:10:55,339
known people in Physics have been interested in

286
00:10:55,339 --> 00:10:56,000
him like,

287
00:10:58,299 --> 00:11:01,259
Arthur c Clark who was trained in that

288
00:11:01,259 --> 00:11:03,600
field before he took up science fiction,

289
00:11:04,705 --> 00:11:06,964
And Arthur c Clark loved Ray's films,

290
00:11:07,424 --> 00:11:09,985
and then there's a few others that, I've

291
00:11:09,985 --> 00:11:10,485
mentioned,

292
00:11:11,105 --> 00:11:12,804
in my piece of Physics World,

293
00:11:13,424 --> 00:11:14,644
including an Indian,

294
00:11:15,585 --> 00:11:18,590
theoretical physicist who's pretty well known in quantum

295
00:11:18,590 --> 00:11:20,610
physics, Deepanka Home.

296
00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:23,629
He's been he's a Bengali from Calcutta, and

297
00:11:23,629 --> 00:11:25,889
he's been following Ray all his life,

298
00:11:27,070 --> 00:11:30,029
because he's he loves his science fiction. He

299
00:11:30,029 --> 00:11:32,049
used to write science fiction as well,

300
00:11:32,845 --> 00:11:35,004
and he he loves all of his films.

301
00:11:35,004 --> 00:11:37,985
And there are many even in science who

302
00:11:38,285 --> 00:11:40,365
who have seen some of the the really

303
00:11:40,365 --> 00:11:41,264
famous films.

304
00:11:41,644 --> 00:11:43,884
And Arthur Clarke said the first film was

305
00:11:43,884 --> 00:11:45,105
one of the most heartbreakingly

306
00:11:45,565 --> 00:11:47,345
beautiful films ever made,

307
00:11:48,169 --> 00:11:50,169
Pato Panchali, and that was the one that

308
00:11:50,169 --> 00:11:52,730
made Ray famous in the world that's that

309
00:11:52,730 --> 00:11:54,509
launched him in 1955.

310
00:11:55,289 --> 00:11:58,750
His momita, Das Gupta. I'm an assistant professor,

311
00:11:59,210 --> 00:12:00,644
10 year track at

312
00:12:01,205 --> 00:12:04,184
Augsburg University. It's a small liberal art college,

313
00:12:04,245 --> 00:12:06,665
which is located in Minneapolis,

314
00:12:07,524 --> 00:12:08,264
in Minnesota,

315
00:12:08,884 --> 00:12:09,865
United States.

316
00:12:10,245 --> 00:12:13,445
My training as a physicist started as an

317
00:12:13,445 --> 00:12:14,745
experimental physicist.

318
00:12:15,299 --> 00:12:18,580
My PhD was at the intersection of fluid

319
00:12:18,580 --> 00:12:21,460
mechanics and solid dynamics. I tried to understand

320
00:12:21,460 --> 00:12:23,480
the physics behind how microorganisms

321
00:12:24,019 --> 00:12:25,539
swim. Before we go on to talk about

322
00:12:25,539 --> 00:12:27,059
Raya, I just wonder if you could help

323
00:12:27,059 --> 00:12:29,225
me because I've heard his name pronounced a

324
00:12:29,225 --> 00:12:30,825
number of different ways. How is it actually

325
00:12:30,825 --> 00:12:34,524
pronounced? The Bengali pronunciation would be Shokdujeet Rai,

326
00:12:35,144 --> 00:12:36,125
but, of course,

327
00:12:36,504 --> 00:12:37,004
Satyajit

328
00:12:37,785 --> 00:12:40,745
Rai is how, like, you know, folks go

329
00:12:40,745 --> 00:12:41,220
by.

330
00:12:41,620 --> 00:12:43,620
And I think he also went by, like,

331
00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:45,379
you know, because as you know, he was

332
00:12:45,379 --> 00:12:45,879
very

333
00:12:46,339 --> 00:12:48,039
famous among non Indian

334
00:12:48,419 --> 00:12:51,379
people and population. But Shokta Jeet Rai is

335
00:12:51,379 --> 00:12:55,299
the Bengali population. Satyajit Ray is what everyone

336
00:12:55,299 --> 00:12:57,394
calls him by. Is it fair to say

337
00:12:57,394 --> 00:12:58,914
that you're a bit of a fan? Oh,

338
00:12:58,914 --> 00:13:01,334
yes. Totally. I am the fangirl,

339
00:13:02,514 --> 00:13:05,174
like, forever Satyajit Ray fan.

340
00:13:05,875 --> 00:13:08,834
As some people like to call infamously, they

341
00:13:08,834 --> 00:13:09,654
call themselves

342
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:10,980
racist,

343
00:13:11,279 --> 00:13:12,259
the r a y

344
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,960
c I s t. I wouldn't go to

345
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,320
that extent, but,

346
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,879
because I have some problem with the word.

347
00:13:18,879 --> 00:13:19,379
But,

348
00:13:19,919 --> 00:13:20,419
yeah.

349
00:13:20,799 --> 00:13:21,539
I'm close.

350
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,759
Why are you such a fan? I was

351
00:13:23,759 --> 00:13:25,059
introduced to Satyajit,

352
00:13:25,924 --> 00:13:29,544
Ray's works. Like, mostly his short stories

353
00:13:30,245 --> 00:13:31,705
and detective novels,

354
00:13:32,485 --> 00:13:35,464
which were targeted towards young adults.

355
00:13:36,084 --> 00:13:36,565
And,

356
00:13:36,884 --> 00:13:37,470
I think,

357
00:13:38,269 --> 00:13:40,669
I was introduced when I was pretty young,

358
00:13:40,669 --> 00:13:41,649
like, you know.

359
00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:43,009
And that

360
00:13:43,309 --> 00:13:46,429
opened doors to, I think, everything that I

361
00:13:46,429 --> 00:13:48,610
am and, you know, how I think and

362
00:13:48,669 --> 00:13:49,649
how I function.

363
00:13:50,589 --> 00:13:53,304
It had a very strong impact

364
00:13:54,084 --> 00:13:56,804
on me as a young adult. So, for

365
00:13:56,804 --> 00:13:57,304
example,

366
00:13:58,245 --> 00:14:01,704
one of my favorite works is his detective

367
00:14:01,845 --> 00:14:03,464
novel called Feluda.

368
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,040
So this is this detective character, like, Sherlock

369
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:07,540
Holmes,

370
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:08,580
character.

371
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,720
And I think at some point, it it

372
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,240
was inspired by,

373
00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:16,000
Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes, but very different kind

374
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:16,899
of a character.

375
00:14:17,304 --> 00:14:19,404
And this guy was this investigative

376
00:14:19,865 --> 00:14:20,365
journalist

377
00:14:20,904 --> 00:14:23,004
who would go and investigate cases.

378
00:14:23,465 --> 00:14:26,684
And Ray had this really beautiful way of

379
00:14:26,904 --> 00:14:27,404
intertwining

380
00:14:27,785 --> 00:14:28,524
his stories

381
00:14:29,065 --> 00:14:30,684
with other things that

382
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:34,240
interested him and was very capable of interesting

383
00:14:34,379 --> 00:14:36,000
young adults, like travel

384
00:14:36,379 --> 00:14:39,360
and then some interesting aspects in travel

385
00:14:39,899 --> 00:14:40,379
and,

386
00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:43,840
science and very evidence based,

387
00:14:45,195 --> 00:14:45,695
investigations.

388
00:14:46,075 --> 00:14:48,475
And all of those to young minds, I

389
00:14:48,475 --> 00:14:50,634
think those are simple enough for them to

390
00:14:50,634 --> 00:14:51,134
grasp,

391
00:14:51,514 --> 00:14:54,634
yet imaginative enough for them to kinda get

392
00:14:54,634 --> 00:14:57,034
there, run their parts and their imaginations. And

393
00:14:57,034 --> 00:14:59,054
his descriptions were very vivid.

394
00:14:59,470 --> 00:15:01,629
And he was a great illustrator, so some

395
00:15:01,629 --> 00:15:03,730
of his work, he would actually draw sketches.

396
00:15:04,269 --> 00:15:06,110
Not all, like, you know, after a couple

397
00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:08,750
of pages. So you could actually see the

398
00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:10,450
characters, like, you know,

399
00:15:10,990 --> 00:15:12,509
as if in front of you when you

400
00:15:12,509 --> 00:15:15,204
were reading them. So he had that capacity.

401
00:15:15,204 --> 00:15:17,365
So I think all of that together sort

402
00:15:17,365 --> 00:15:18,904
of attracted me

403
00:15:19,445 --> 00:15:21,464
reading more of Ray's work

404
00:15:22,404 --> 00:15:24,584
and the language, very lucid,

405
00:15:24,884 --> 00:15:25,384
very,

406
00:15:25,860 --> 00:15:26,360
very,

407
00:15:27,539 --> 00:15:30,279
geared and targeted towards young adults. Nothing

408
00:15:30,659 --> 00:15:32,259
of the liter to an extent, like, you

409
00:15:32,259 --> 00:15:34,019
know, sometimes my mom who was, like, you

410
00:15:34,019 --> 00:15:35,080
know, into literature,

411
00:15:35,539 --> 00:15:37,139
she would say, oh, why are you reading?

412
00:15:37,139 --> 00:15:39,240
Like, you know, his work doesn't have literary

413
00:15:39,379 --> 00:15:39,879
values.

414
00:15:40,414 --> 00:15:43,314
But what it had was mostly imagination.

415
00:15:43,694 --> 00:15:46,574
And I think for young adults, that was

416
00:15:46,574 --> 00:15:49,454
more appealing rather than the literary value. And

417
00:15:49,454 --> 00:15:51,694
then I started reading more work. I started

418
00:15:51,694 --> 00:15:54,639
watching more films. His films, I would say,

419
00:15:55,579 --> 00:15:59,179
watching them at different times of my life,

420
00:15:59,179 --> 00:16:01,039
they have had different interpretations

421
00:16:01,820 --> 00:16:02,320
because,

422
00:16:03,019 --> 00:16:05,899
again, as everyone know, the great filmmaker he

423
00:16:05,899 --> 00:16:09,014
was, he had very subtle hints about a

424
00:16:09,014 --> 00:16:12,054
lot of things like class struggles, a cast

425
00:16:12,054 --> 00:16:12,554
struggles,

426
00:16:13,174 --> 00:16:15,914
and about human beings, how he portrayed women,

427
00:16:16,375 --> 00:16:18,855
and how he portrayed, like, the society as

428
00:16:18,855 --> 00:16:21,034
a whole, the interplay between different

429
00:16:21,529 --> 00:16:22,910
roles and different,

430
00:16:23,529 --> 00:16:24,910
aspects of the society.

431
00:16:26,649 --> 00:16:28,490
Yeah. So, you know, as I grew up,

432
00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:30,410
like, and I started and watched more and

433
00:16:30,410 --> 00:16:32,190
more of his movies, I think I understood

434
00:16:32,250 --> 00:16:34,730
or at a every time I understand things

435
00:16:34,730 --> 00:16:35,450
at different

436
00:16:35,904 --> 00:16:38,144
and different aspects of things that he tried

437
00:16:38,144 --> 00:16:41,105
to portray in a very subtle manner. But

438
00:16:41,105 --> 00:16:43,105
as a young adult, it was mostly his

439
00:16:43,105 --> 00:16:45,264
books that attracted, and he had made a

440
00:16:45,264 --> 00:16:48,705
couple of movies for young adults also. So

441
00:16:48,705 --> 00:16:50,804
there are a couple of Teluda movies.

442
00:16:51,959 --> 00:16:54,600
That's the detective character that I was talking

443
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,860
about. And then there was also,

444
00:16:57,879 --> 00:16:58,379
this

445
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,579
other character called professor Shonku. So professor Shonku

446
00:17:03,639 --> 00:17:05,179
was this mad scientist,

447
00:17:06,234 --> 00:17:09,914
character that he introduced who would travel different

448
00:17:09,914 --> 00:17:12,075
parts of the world and then, you know,

449
00:17:12,075 --> 00:17:13,775
through his scientific discoveries,

450
00:17:14,315 --> 00:17:16,075
would try to solve some,

451
00:17:16,634 --> 00:17:17,534
he was not

452
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,019
he was not, like, kind of an investigator

453
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,059
like Feluda was, but he, through his inventions,

454
00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:26,000
would try to do something good for the

455
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,079
world, and he was a nonviolent person even

456
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,339
though he worked with a lot of machines

457
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,045
and, stuff. And, you know, he and

458
00:17:33,365 --> 00:17:35,305
very crude. He would work from a laboratory

459
00:17:35,365 --> 00:17:37,625
based in his basement, like, in the house.

460
00:17:37,684 --> 00:17:39,605
And then he's building these things and there

461
00:17:39,605 --> 00:17:42,565
are chemical reactions, and then he's building this

462
00:17:42,805 --> 00:17:44,565
like, his first story was, like, he built

463
00:17:44,565 --> 00:17:45,625
this snuff gun

464
00:17:45,929 --> 00:17:48,889
and, you know, somebody who would sniff the,

465
00:17:48,889 --> 00:17:51,289
like, thing from the gun, they would sneeze

466
00:17:51,289 --> 00:17:55,309
for, like, 56 times. So it's very imaginative.

467
00:17:55,529 --> 00:17:56,349
Like, imagination

468
00:17:56,809 --> 00:17:58,250
wrapped around with the,

469
00:17:59,025 --> 00:18:00,705
like, you know, the science. So that was

470
00:18:00,705 --> 00:18:03,525
another character that, I read and,

471
00:18:04,465 --> 00:18:06,465
yeah. And he had a several a bunch

472
00:18:06,465 --> 00:18:08,085
of short stories also,

473
00:18:08,785 --> 00:18:11,549
which were also very popular among the. You

474
00:18:11,549 --> 00:18:14,190
mentioned the science there. Would you credit him

475
00:18:14,190 --> 00:18:16,909
with your interest in science? Was it did

476
00:18:16,909 --> 00:18:18,829
they inspire you in some way to become

477
00:18:18,829 --> 00:18:19,409
a scientist?

478
00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:22,690
Yes. Yes. I think it did.

479
00:18:23,069 --> 00:18:24,289
I think it did.

480
00:18:24,589 --> 00:18:25,089
So,

481
00:18:25,404 --> 00:18:27,964
you know, in his writing, it I mean,

482
00:18:27,964 --> 00:18:30,224
I don't know about the science part. Okay?

483
00:18:30,525 --> 00:18:32,144
But the investigative

484
00:18:32,684 --> 00:18:33,184
nature,

485
00:18:33,724 --> 00:18:36,865
which is very key to being a scientist,

486
00:18:37,484 --> 00:18:40,384
I think that was somewhere honed by

487
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,100
Satyajit Ray's reading a lot of Satyajit Ray

488
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,039
because you would find a clue about something

489
00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:49,680
that interests you, and then you would go

490
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,200
and find something else that aligns with that

491
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,734
interest. And I think even now, I was

492
00:18:55,734 --> 00:18:57,734
talking to my husband, like, you know, a

493
00:18:57,734 --> 00:18:59,815
couple of days earlier. And it's like, even

494
00:18:59,815 --> 00:19:01,654
now, I think I follow that. Like, what

495
00:19:01,654 --> 00:19:03,654
I really want to do, it's like I

496
00:19:03,654 --> 00:19:05,894
collect clues from something and then I go

497
00:19:05,894 --> 00:19:07,575
and be like, oh, okay. What can I

498
00:19:07,575 --> 00:19:10,059
find about this? Where can I go and

499
00:19:10,059 --> 00:19:12,220
look for this resource that is going to

500
00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:14,779
help me, you know, figure more things about

501
00:19:14,779 --> 00:19:17,500
this? And so it's it's all about like,

502
00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:20,000
I think for me, more than the science,

503
00:19:20,539 --> 00:19:22,619
which is something that, you know, one could

504
00:19:22,619 --> 00:19:24,799
pick up from books and, like, enough education

505
00:19:25,234 --> 00:19:27,734
and the training in academia. It is that

506
00:19:27,955 --> 00:19:28,455
investigative

507
00:19:28,994 --> 00:19:29,494
nature,

508
00:19:29,795 --> 00:19:33,015
which which I think is something I imbibe

509
00:19:33,154 --> 00:19:34,674
from reading a lot of Ray as a

510
00:19:34,674 --> 00:19:37,414
kid. There is also this other part

511
00:19:37,829 --> 00:19:40,150
about, you know, being original, like, you know,

512
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:42,890
finding something original even if it is like

513
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:44,250
you

514
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:46,009
you read information,

515
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:50,204
different people before you have collected, but you

516
00:19:50,204 --> 00:19:52,924
have the power to create your story and

517
00:19:52,924 --> 00:19:53,424
narrative,

518
00:19:54,204 --> 00:19:56,924
like, you know, by seeing the information, but

519
00:19:56,924 --> 00:20:00,044
you because you are bringing in yourself also

520
00:20:00,044 --> 00:20:01,105
in your experience

521
00:20:01,404 --> 00:20:02,609
also into the,

522
00:20:03,170 --> 00:20:06,230
entire, like, you know, story. So I think

523
00:20:06,289 --> 00:20:08,710
that that requires some imagination.

524
00:20:09,410 --> 00:20:12,690
And being exposed and to Ray and Ray's

525
00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:15,089
readings, I felt that is also there was,

526
00:20:15,089 --> 00:20:16,549
like, this other takeaway,

527
00:20:17,505 --> 00:20:19,825
that that kind of, I think, has shaped

528
00:20:19,825 --> 00:20:20,325
me

529
00:20:20,705 --> 00:20:21,684
and my nature,

530
00:20:22,305 --> 00:20:23,445
growing up and,

531
00:20:23,904 --> 00:20:24,565
you know,

532
00:20:25,585 --> 00:20:28,305
whatever I do today. I'm thinking about when

533
00:20:28,305 --> 00:20:30,085
I speak to,

534
00:20:30,545 --> 00:20:31,505
scientists across

535
00:20:32,009 --> 00:20:34,410
well, across the world, really, but certainly, the

536
00:20:34,410 --> 00:20:37,230
the English speaking world. When you you ask

537
00:20:37,369 --> 00:20:40,009
scientists of a certain age what first got

538
00:20:40,009 --> 00:20:42,329
them interested in science, that quite a lot

539
00:20:42,329 --> 00:20:44,650
of them will say Star Trek. Is Rey

540
00:20:44,650 --> 00:20:45,974
a similar kind of

541
00:20:46,454 --> 00:20:48,154
influence in in in India?

542
00:20:48,694 --> 00:20:51,894
No. I would not say so. So first

543
00:20:51,894 --> 00:20:54,315
of all, India is vast, and,

544
00:20:54,855 --> 00:20:55,355
Rey

545
00:20:55,734 --> 00:20:58,535
was very particular about though he has a

546
00:20:58,535 --> 00:21:00,554
couple of works that he had,

547
00:21:01,230 --> 00:21:04,750
done in non Bengali, but he was, like,

548
00:21:04,750 --> 00:21:08,190
mostly this Bengali guy who was obsessed about

549
00:21:08,190 --> 00:21:10,509
Bengal, and most of his work was about

550
00:21:10,509 --> 00:21:13,569
Bengal and done in Bengal. Even the story

551
00:21:13,964 --> 00:21:16,365
alien, which never really got made, was also

552
00:21:16,365 --> 00:21:17,744
very based on Bengal

553
00:21:18,125 --> 00:21:21,105
because he always maintained that

554
00:21:21,484 --> 00:21:24,924
that's the language he is most comfortable in

555
00:21:24,924 --> 00:21:25,424
communicating

556
00:21:25,804 --> 00:21:27,984
and expressing himself also.

557
00:21:28,669 --> 00:21:30,669
So I would say I lucked out. Like,

558
00:21:30,669 --> 00:21:32,589
you know, I was born in Bengal and,

559
00:21:32,589 --> 00:21:34,609
like, you know, that that kind of,

560
00:21:35,069 --> 00:21:36,910
like, I could read his books which were

561
00:21:36,910 --> 00:21:39,789
written in Bengali. But as I was growing

562
00:21:39,789 --> 00:21:42,049
up, a lot of it was also translated

563
00:21:42,589 --> 00:21:43,809
into other languages.

564
00:21:44,434 --> 00:21:44,934
But,

565
00:21:45,714 --> 00:21:47,575
when I met other folks

566
00:21:47,875 --> 00:21:48,855
around India,

567
00:21:49,315 --> 00:21:51,474
I did not think they were as much

568
00:21:51,474 --> 00:21:51,974
impacted

569
00:21:52,275 --> 00:21:54,275
as I was, or maybe I am that

570
00:21:54,275 --> 00:21:57,075
other biased Bengali who just thinks everything about

571
00:21:57,075 --> 00:21:58,079
Bengali is great.

572
00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:01,679
But I would take that opinion with a

573
00:22:01,679 --> 00:22:02,579
pinch of salt.

574
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:03,460
But,

575
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,140
yeah, I would say, like, most Bengali kids

576
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:07,679
have

577
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:09,940
yeah. They have been impacted

578
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:10,740
more

579
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,605
because his medium, his movies, and his writings,

580
00:22:14,984 --> 00:22:16,684
most of them were in Bengali.

581
00:22:17,384 --> 00:22:17,884
And

582
00:22:18,184 --> 00:22:20,205
it is not just him. So

583
00:22:20,585 --> 00:22:24,525
Satyajit Ray's father, Shupama Ray or Shupama Ray,

584
00:22:24,904 --> 00:22:25,404
was

585
00:22:25,785 --> 00:22:26,285
also

586
00:22:26,585 --> 00:22:28,640
this, like, you know, he used to write

587
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:29,539
these poetries

588
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:30,660
about

589
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,440
unfortunately, he died very young, so there aren't

590
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,279
a lot of, like, you know, like,

591
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,720
he doesn't have that body of work that

592
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,705
a lot of other people have throughout their

593
00:22:42,705 --> 00:22:44,545
lifetime. I think he died when he was

594
00:22:44,545 --> 00:22:46,805
32 or 36, very young.

595
00:22:47,184 --> 00:22:50,065
But he was this genius minded guy, and

596
00:22:50,065 --> 00:22:51,445
he used to write

597
00:22:51,825 --> 00:22:52,325
these

598
00:22:52,705 --> 00:22:53,205
poems,

599
00:22:53,759 --> 00:22:56,820
like, bizarre poems about these imaginative

600
00:22:57,279 --> 00:22:57,779
animals

601
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:58,900
about,

602
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,359
like, you know, and them doing things. And

603
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,080
if you read them carefully, sometimes they sometimes

604
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,920
it would you would think that they don't

605
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,664
make any sense. It's just to,

606
00:23:08,144 --> 00:23:08,865
like, you know,

607
00:23:09,585 --> 00:23:12,404
pick a child's brain and their imagination.

608
00:23:13,265 --> 00:23:16,144
But it was actually also a lot about

609
00:23:16,144 --> 00:23:17,684
society and different,

610
00:23:18,144 --> 00:23:20,005
like, you know, how society functions.

611
00:23:20,539 --> 00:23:23,819
And, I think Satyajit Ray was also very

612
00:23:23,819 --> 00:23:24,319
inspired

613
00:23:24,779 --> 00:23:25,179
by,

614
00:23:25,659 --> 00:23:26,480
you know, that

615
00:23:26,779 --> 00:23:29,599
writing. And in Bengal at that time,

616
00:23:30,059 --> 00:23:32,859
there were other writers who were kind of,

617
00:23:32,859 --> 00:23:35,815
you know, writing and following that path. And

618
00:23:35,815 --> 00:23:38,474
there were these body of works, which,

619
00:23:38,855 --> 00:23:40,234
you know, as kids

620
00:23:41,095 --> 00:23:44,634
growing up, let's say, from the late 19

621
00:23:44,694 --> 00:23:48,075
fifties through even till now, had access to

622
00:23:48,375 --> 00:23:49,115
in Bengali.

623
00:23:50,269 --> 00:23:53,009
So I would say, Bengal disproportionately

624
00:23:53,710 --> 00:23:56,529
got, like, the more dose of that

625
00:23:56,990 --> 00:23:58,609
than rest of the country.

626
00:24:00,109 --> 00:24:00,609
And

627
00:24:01,884 --> 00:24:04,125
I don't know. But a lot of people

628
00:24:04,125 --> 00:24:06,944
in Bengal take up science and fundamental

629
00:24:07,244 --> 00:24:08,464
science, not just,

630
00:24:08,924 --> 00:24:10,765
like, you know, become engineer. Because in the

631
00:24:10,765 --> 00:24:12,684
rest of the country, it's more about, you

632
00:24:12,684 --> 00:24:15,164
know, with the boom and IT booms, people

633
00:24:15,164 --> 00:24:17,809
tend to become more engineers. But Bengal is

634
00:24:17,809 --> 00:24:19,970
a place like, there has been a constant

635
00:24:19,970 --> 00:24:21,029
influx of,

636
00:24:21,490 --> 00:24:21,990
fundamental

637
00:24:22,369 --> 00:24:25,250
scientists, and I won't be surprised if, you

638
00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:28,049
know, Ray Ray's father, Shukumar Ray, there was,

639
00:24:28,289 --> 00:24:31,065
there were other writers, sci fi writers too,

640
00:24:31,304 --> 00:24:32,764
if they would have helped,

641
00:24:33,144 --> 00:24:34,984
you know, forming some of the interest from

642
00:24:34,984 --> 00:24:37,704
the young. I can see how his the

643
00:24:37,704 --> 00:24:40,105
imagination side of the the science fiction side

644
00:24:40,105 --> 00:24:42,984
of things is inspired by his father's poetry

645
00:24:42,984 --> 00:24:44,890
and that side of things. But where do

646
00:24:44,890 --> 00:24:46,250
you know have a sense of where the

647
00:24:46,250 --> 00:24:49,049
science interest came from? So Ray lost his

648
00:24:49,049 --> 00:24:51,930
father when he was 2 or 3 years

649
00:24:51,930 --> 00:24:52,430
old.

650
00:24:52,809 --> 00:24:55,609
And I think he spent a lot of

651
00:24:55,609 --> 00:24:58,509
time in his life to discover his father

652
00:24:58,684 --> 00:24:59,585
through his work,

653
00:25:00,044 --> 00:25:02,464
and his father was a trained scientist.

654
00:25:02,845 --> 00:25:04,224
His father was,

655
00:25:04,924 --> 00:25:05,884
he did his,

656
00:25:06,285 --> 00:25:09,724
bachelor's in physics and chemistry from this, very

657
00:25:09,724 --> 00:25:12,384
prestigious presidency college in Calcutta.

658
00:25:13,724 --> 00:25:14,224
And

659
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:17,049
his grand Satyajit Ray's grandfather

660
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:20,309
or Shupama Ray's father, his name was Upendra

661
00:25:20,309 --> 00:25:20,789
Kishore,

662
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:21,610
Raichaudhuri.

663
00:25:22,309 --> 00:25:23,610
He was also,

664
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:26,890
like, he used to write kids' novels.

665
00:25:27,255 --> 00:25:29,035
And they were, at that time,

666
00:25:29,414 --> 00:25:30,394
bringing these,

667
00:25:31,174 --> 00:25:33,974
block prints and other kinds of printing. They

668
00:25:33,974 --> 00:25:35,434
had a big printing press

669
00:25:35,974 --> 00:25:39,015
to publish their stories and their illustrations. They

670
00:25:39,015 --> 00:25:41,674
would be doing that. And Shupama Ray

671
00:25:42,289 --> 00:25:44,309
was also a great illustrator,

672
00:25:44,609 --> 00:25:47,809
and he eventually went to London, I think.

673
00:25:47,809 --> 00:25:49,190
Yeah. He went to London.

674
00:25:49,650 --> 00:25:51,669
And over there, he,

675
00:25:52,289 --> 00:25:53,169
again, did,

676
00:25:53,890 --> 00:25:56,470
these courses on photography and lithography

677
00:25:57,285 --> 00:25:57,785
and,

678
00:25:58,244 --> 00:26:00,105
because he was interested in illustrations.

679
00:26:00,725 --> 00:26:01,465
And he

680
00:26:02,164 --> 00:26:02,984
he has

681
00:26:03,445 --> 00:26:06,025
journal articles, and he was into publishing

682
00:26:06,644 --> 00:26:10,005
his work and his understanding of that. And,

683
00:26:10,725 --> 00:26:11,225
so

684
00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:14,710
Satyajit Ray's father was very much

685
00:26:15,329 --> 00:26:18,130
like, he was a scientist by training, and

686
00:26:18,130 --> 00:26:20,450
he kind of honed his skills towards things

687
00:26:20,450 --> 00:26:22,450
he was interested in. And then he went

688
00:26:22,450 --> 00:26:23,349
back to Calcutta

689
00:26:24,015 --> 00:26:26,095
to, you know, run the press, and they

690
00:26:26,095 --> 00:26:28,575
had these magazines which they were, you know,

691
00:26:28,575 --> 00:26:30,994
publishing on a daily basis. But, unfortunately,

692
00:26:31,455 --> 00:26:31,955
he,

693
00:26:32,414 --> 00:26:34,095
you know, he contracted this,

694
00:26:34,734 --> 00:26:37,455
very rare disease, and he was ailing for

695
00:26:37,455 --> 00:26:39,630
a couple of years before he died. But

696
00:26:39,630 --> 00:26:40,849
Satyajit Ray

697
00:26:41,390 --> 00:26:43,309
did not spend a lot of time with

698
00:26:43,309 --> 00:26:44,049
his father

699
00:26:44,430 --> 00:26:45,570
in childhood.

700
00:26:45,950 --> 00:26:46,450
So

701
00:26:48,029 --> 00:26:50,029
a large part of his life was, you

702
00:26:50,029 --> 00:26:51,470
know, a lot of people say and I

703
00:26:51,470 --> 00:26:53,869
have read also, was discovering his father through

704
00:26:53,869 --> 00:26:54,609
his works.

705
00:26:55,054 --> 00:26:55,554
And,

706
00:26:56,174 --> 00:26:58,494
I have read their bookshelves, has a lot

707
00:26:58,494 --> 00:26:59,875
of books about,

708
00:27:00,414 --> 00:27:03,075
HG Wells and, like, you know,

709
00:27:03,375 --> 00:27:05,855
Arthur Conan Doyle. We know him for Sherlock

710
00:27:05,855 --> 00:27:07,694
Holmes, but he has also written his fair

711
00:27:07,694 --> 00:27:09,599
bit of sci fi stuff. And,

712
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,559
so he did read a lot of those

713
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:15,359
things while, you know, in his formative years.

714
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,400
And he liked to call himself the science

715
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:18,900
fiction

716
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:19,779
enthusiast,

717
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,734
like, you know, so he would read a

718
00:27:22,734 --> 00:27:25,315
lot about them. And once he started writing,

719
00:27:25,694 --> 00:27:28,674
professor Shombu, this character I was talking about,

720
00:27:28,815 --> 00:27:30,035
like, the mad scientist,

721
00:27:30,894 --> 00:27:32,194
from 19 sixties,

722
00:27:32,575 --> 00:27:33,315
he actually,

723
00:27:33,615 --> 00:27:34,835
you know, systematically

724
00:27:35,375 --> 00:27:38,240
read more about science and scientific discoveries

725
00:27:38,779 --> 00:27:39,599
and scientific,

726
00:27:40,619 --> 00:27:42,779
like, you know, the discourse. And so that,

727
00:27:42,779 --> 00:27:44,380
you know, the facts and things that he

728
00:27:44,380 --> 00:27:45,119
was producing

729
00:27:45,660 --> 00:27:47,740
was not something bizarre and, like, you know,

730
00:27:47,740 --> 00:27:50,559
he wanted to be correct about that. So,

731
00:27:51,274 --> 00:27:52,875
you know, and then he kind of totally

732
00:27:52,875 --> 00:27:54,554
took to that, and there was a sci

733
00:27:54,554 --> 00:27:58,234
fi club called Ashorjo or Fantasy Fantastic, I

734
00:27:58,234 --> 00:27:59,835
think, was the name of the sci fi

735
00:27:59,835 --> 00:28:02,575
club, which was created in Bengal.

736
00:28:03,034 --> 00:28:04,255
And they actually

737
00:28:06,579 --> 00:28:09,059
started, like, screening a lot of sci fi

738
00:28:09,059 --> 00:28:09,559
movies

739
00:28:09,940 --> 00:28:12,519
which were available around that time. And Satyajit

740
00:28:12,740 --> 00:28:15,299
Ray would go above and beyond his busy

741
00:28:15,299 --> 00:28:15,799
schedule

742
00:28:16,179 --> 00:28:18,865
to actually, like, you know, get the prints

743
00:28:18,865 --> 00:28:21,744
of these movies and screen them. And he

744
00:28:21,744 --> 00:28:24,865
was very good friends with Arthur Clark. So,

745
00:28:25,105 --> 00:28:27,184
you know, and, he would, like you know?

746
00:28:27,184 --> 00:28:29,204
And, also, I think he was in corresponding

747
00:28:29,345 --> 00:28:31,184
with Bradshaw. Like, you know, so they would

748
00:28:31,184 --> 00:28:31,845
be just,

749
00:28:32,224 --> 00:28:33,204
sort of exchanging

750
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:35,980
letters

751
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:39,019
about sign fictions and this lot of discussion

752
00:28:39,159 --> 00:28:40,940
would go on. And a lot of his

753
00:28:41,159 --> 00:28:43,720
stories and things that he would publish later,

754
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,359
like, you know, through his different sci fi,

755
00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:47,419
the the characters

756
00:28:47,954 --> 00:28:50,054
would be based on some of these knowledges.

757
00:28:50,275 --> 00:28:52,275
Like, I was talking about Feluda. He was,

758
00:28:52,275 --> 00:28:53,015
like, this

759
00:28:53,394 --> 00:28:55,974
character who would be doing some investigative journalism,

760
00:28:56,275 --> 00:28:58,515
but then he would be talking about a

761
00:28:58,515 --> 00:29:01,095
character, let's say, who got killed by,

762
00:29:01,490 --> 00:29:02,150
some poison.

763
00:29:02,609 --> 00:29:04,369
And then he would put the fact that,

764
00:29:04,369 --> 00:29:07,090
oh, this poison could only be administered if

765
00:29:07,090 --> 00:29:09,570
someone has a certain health condition, and this

766
00:29:09,570 --> 00:29:12,070
would be a bad combination for that person.

767
00:29:12,369 --> 00:29:14,529
So, you know, there there is science in

768
00:29:14,529 --> 00:29:16,130
that. Like, you you cannot just come up

769
00:29:16,130 --> 00:29:18,345
with that. So he used to do those

770
00:29:18,345 --> 00:29:20,424
research and, like, do those works. It's not

771
00:29:20,424 --> 00:29:22,845
just about science at fiction level,

772
00:29:23,305 --> 00:29:24,845
like with all the cosmic

773
00:29:25,384 --> 00:29:26,205
like, the cosmological,

774
00:29:27,144 --> 00:29:30,359
sort of things, but also basic things. Like,

775
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:32,279
there was a lot of attention to detail

776
00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:35,640
and the science behind them. My science fiction

777
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,980
interest covers some of those sixties

778
00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:40,759
films that we saw. 1st Met in the

779
00:29:40,759 --> 00:29:41,980
Moon, Destination

780
00:29:42,359 --> 00:29:44,759
Moon, that kind of moon focus that came

781
00:29:44,759 --> 00:29:46,964
along and space focus that came along with

782
00:29:46,964 --> 00:29:49,125
the, the moon landings and the space race.

783
00:29:49,125 --> 00:29:49,625
And

784
00:29:50,244 --> 00:29:51,305
Ray's film

785
00:29:51,765 --> 00:29:54,424
script for the alien produced in 1967

786
00:29:54,805 --> 00:29:56,585
in in the height of that. Is that,

787
00:29:57,365 --> 00:29:59,045
was he inspired, do you think, by the

788
00:29:59,045 --> 00:30:01,599
space race? And it was that a similar

789
00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:03,679
thing in Indian cinema and in Indian science

790
00:30:03,679 --> 00:30:04,659
fiction at the time?

791
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:05,779
That's actually,

792
00:30:06,159 --> 00:30:08,740
kind of unheard what Ray sort

793
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:12,640
of delved into because Indian cinema at that

794
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,179
point was not,

795
00:30:15,134 --> 00:30:16,434
dealing even today,

796
00:30:17,615 --> 00:30:20,734
Indian cinema don't delve into those kind of

797
00:30:20,734 --> 00:30:23,695
topic. But Ray, the visionary he was, his

798
00:30:23,695 --> 00:30:24,255
first movie,

799
00:30:25,134 --> 00:30:26,015
he kind of just

800
00:30:26,890 --> 00:30:28,890
you know, he was so original. He he

801
00:30:28,890 --> 00:30:29,390
just

802
00:30:29,929 --> 00:30:32,970
and anything and everything he did was nothing

803
00:30:32,970 --> 00:30:35,309
similar to what was going on around him.

804
00:30:35,609 --> 00:30:36,109
So,

805
00:30:36,890 --> 00:30:39,369
yeah, I would say it was not a

806
00:30:39,369 --> 00:30:41,789
reflection was of what was going around,

807
00:30:42,169 --> 00:30:45,365
but the journey could be understood because

808
00:30:45,904 --> 00:30:46,884
in 1961

809
00:30:47,505 --> 00:30:49,684
so they had these magazines called Sandesh,

810
00:30:50,704 --> 00:30:53,424
which, used to be published during his father's

811
00:30:53,424 --> 00:30:55,585
time. It was a very popular magazine, but

812
00:30:55,585 --> 00:30:58,419
then it kind of, like, you know, the

813
00:30:58,419 --> 00:31:00,279
interest and everything fizzled out.

814
00:31:00,980 --> 00:31:02,279
And in 1961,

815
00:31:02,980 --> 00:31:04,900
his friend who was the editor of that

816
00:31:04,900 --> 00:31:07,380
magazine asked him, and they wanted to bring

817
00:31:07,380 --> 00:31:09,859
out the magazine again because there was, again,

818
00:31:09,859 --> 00:31:11,240
a lot of literary interest.

819
00:31:11,804 --> 00:31:14,524
And they asked Satyajit Ray to write. He

820
00:31:14,524 --> 00:31:16,684
was not a writer. So we have to

821
00:31:16,684 --> 00:31:18,684
think, this person, he started his career as

822
00:31:18,684 --> 00:31:20,865
an illustrator. He used to work in,

823
00:31:21,244 --> 00:31:23,724
like, you know, an advertising agency. From there,

824
00:31:23,724 --> 00:31:24,865
he became a filmmaker.

825
00:31:25,319 --> 00:31:25,819
And

826
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,579
he like, you know, in 1955,

827
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,519
Pockit Panchali released. And then after that, he

828
00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:32,119
was doing really well. And there were, like,

829
00:31:32,119 --> 00:31:34,839
3, 4 other very good movies that came

830
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:37,480
out. The entire Pockit Panchali, it's a part

831
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,174
of trilogy of 3 movies. Those movies came

832
00:31:40,174 --> 00:31:42,195
out around that. And around 1961,

833
00:31:42,654 --> 00:31:44,494
they wanted because there was a lot of

834
00:31:44,494 --> 00:31:46,974
interest around him, they wanted to kind of,

835
00:31:46,974 --> 00:31:48,835
you know, revive this magazine.

836
00:31:49,134 --> 00:31:51,315
And his friend asked him to write,

837
00:31:52,059 --> 00:31:54,299
like, you know and because this was mostly

838
00:31:54,299 --> 00:31:55,119
geared towards

839
00:31:55,420 --> 00:31:58,299
young adults and, young people, they asked him

840
00:31:58,299 --> 00:31:59,900
to write. And he wrote for the first

841
00:31:59,900 --> 00:32:03,259
time. And he introduced this character, like, you

842
00:32:03,259 --> 00:32:04,880
know, professor Shonku,

843
00:32:05,259 --> 00:32:07,634
and he started writing about it.

844
00:32:08,115 --> 00:32:10,674
And I think that had and he has

845
00:32:10,674 --> 00:32:13,634
also said in different places that it started,

846
00:32:13,634 --> 00:32:17,075
like, at as this funny, mad scientist in

847
00:32:17,075 --> 00:32:19,474
the beginning. But after that, things got very

848
00:32:19,474 --> 00:32:21,894
serious, and that was a direct,

849
00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:25,210
like, you know, it had direct correlation with

850
00:32:25,210 --> 00:32:27,150
Ray's interest into science,

851
00:32:28,009 --> 00:32:30,750
like reading about science, like reading journals.

852
00:32:31,130 --> 00:32:32,490
And I have read, like, you know, he

853
00:32:32,490 --> 00:32:34,809
had subscription to science and, like, you know,

854
00:32:34,809 --> 00:32:36,269
other scientific magazines

855
00:32:36,654 --> 00:32:38,994
where he would be reading up upon them

856
00:32:39,615 --> 00:32:42,515
to help him write, but he was actually

857
00:32:42,575 --> 00:32:45,134
building up on his intuition about and he

858
00:32:45,134 --> 00:32:47,375
all also had the AGLs and, like, you

859
00:32:47,375 --> 00:32:50,494
know, his other backgrounds about, like, you know,

860
00:32:50,494 --> 00:32:53,139
his part of his father's works were also,

861
00:32:53,139 --> 00:32:55,240
like, you know, had that sci fi

862
00:32:56,019 --> 00:32:57,880
relationship. So then he started,

863
00:32:58,419 --> 00:33:00,579
like, you know, writing this more. And there's

864
00:33:00,579 --> 00:33:02,500
this interview of Ray in,

865
00:33:02,899 --> 00:33:05,159
the eighties, which I heard it's in Bengali,

866
00:33:05,220 --> 00:33:07,644
actually, where he talks about this, and he

867
00:33:07,644 --> 00:33:10,305
said that Shonku became more serious

868
00:33:10,684 --> 00:33:12,065
because of his interest.

869
00:33:12,365 --> 00:33:15,085
Now that was the timeline around 90 that

870
00:33:15,085 --> 00:33:16,465
started around 1961.

871
00:33:17,164 --> 00:33:18,225
So by 1967,

872
00:33:19,164 --> 00:33:21,970
if he was writing this, like, you know,

873
00:33:22,269 --> 00:33:24,529
The Alien, which was, again,

874
00:33:24,910 --> 00:33:27,710
based on the first writing that he wrote

875
00:33:27,710 --> 00:33:28,609
in Sandesh,

876
00:33:29,470 --> 00:33:32,430
like, The Bunku Babu Diary, that was something

877
00:33:32,430 --> 00:33:33,570
he wrote for Sandesh,

878
00:33:34,015 --> 00:33:36,414
And that was the screenplay that he later

879
00:33:36,414 --> 00:33:37,454
adapted for,

880
00:33:37,855 --> 00:33:40,174
you know, the alien. And there was also

881
00:33:40,174 --> 00:33:42,115
this another one called Bongjhatri

882
00:33:42,414 --> 00:33:44,275
Diary that was Shonku's first,

883
00:33:44,734 --> 00:33:47,069
novel. And I think there are parts of

884
00:33:47,069 --> 00:33:50,109
that also which are adapted into this. So

885
00:33:50,109 --> 00:33:51,630
I think you can if you follow the

886
00:33:51,630 --> 00:33:54,509
chronology, you can see that, you know, he

887
00:33:54,509 --> 00:33:56,289
was kind of following his

888
00:33:56,669 --> 00:33:59,470
interest and he became very passionate about it.

889
00:33:59,470 --> 00:34:01,869
And this writing was, like, a product of

890
00:34:01,869 --> 00:34:02,369
that,

891
00:34:03,365 --> 00:34:05,944
that thing. You were speaking to somebody or

892
00:34:06,085 --> 00:34:08,664
somebody was listening now who'd never heard

893
00:34:09,045 --> 00:34:10,804
of of Ray's work and and and you

894
00:34:10,804 --> 00:34:12,724
said, right, you've got to start with this

895
00:34:12,724 --> 00:34:14,724
one. Where do they start? I would say

896
00:34:14,724 --> 00:34:17,010
there is no chronology. Just pick up the

897
00:34:17,010 --> 00:34:19,190
one, you know, that you like and,

898
00:34:20,530 --> 00:34:22,530
you know, your interest would be picked to

899
00:34:22,530 --> 00:34:24,869
an extent that you would become the investigator

900
00:34:25,170 --> 00:34:27,010
to find out which one you want to

901
00:34:27,010 --> 00:34:27,510
read.

902
00:34:27,809 --> 00:34:31,670
But, basically, it totally depends on interests. Like,

903
00:34:32,434 --> 00:34:33,635
I would say,

904
00:34:35,234 --> 00:34:36,375
if you are into,

905
00:34:36,755 --> 00:34:37,655
reading investigative,

906
00:34:37,954 --> 00:34:39,014
like, you know, detective,

907
00:34:39,715 --> 00:34:41,414
kind of novels, reading Feluda,

908
00:34:41,795 --> 00:34:43,715
and he has a series of stories in

909
00:34:43,715 --> 00:34:45,599
Feluda. That's that's really good.

910
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:46,980
Then professor

911
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,440
is like the other ones. These are for

912
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,860
young adults, and he has these bunch of

913
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,539
short stories also.

914
00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:56,960
If you are not into reading, there's a

915
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,940
repertoire of his movies that you could, watch

916
00:35:00,224 --> 00:35:01,149
starting from,

917
00:35:02,074 --> 00:35:05,265
Like, there are these 3, like, in the

918
00:35:05,265 --> 00:35:07,525
Opu trilogy movies. And then

919
00:35:08,545 --> 00:35:09,425
if you watch,

920
00:35:09,744 --> 00:35:12,065
like, further than the seventies, he became more

921
00:35:12,065 --> 00:35:14,465
political, which was, I think, a reflection of

922
00:35:14,465 --> 00:35:14,965
how,

923
00:35:15,530 --> 00:35:17,929
Bengal, like, you know, his, like, you know,

924
00:35:17,929 --> 00:35:20,730
where he belonged. The politics over there kinda

925
00:35:20,730 --> 00:35:23,630
shaped his narrative, I think, in his movies.

926
00:35:23,849 --> 00:35:25,929
And then there's this movie called Devi and

927
00:35:25,929 --> 00:35:28,590
Charulata where he beautifully and these

928
00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:30,795
3 are one of, like, you know, some

929
00:35:30,795 --> 00:35:33,114
of my favorite movies of how he depicted

930
00:35:33,114 --> 00:35:35,034
women characters in that movie. He had a

931
00:35:35,034 --> 00:35:36,655
very unique way of depicting,

932
00:35:37,114 --> 00:35:38,014
women characters.

933
00:35:38,394 --> 00:35:40,474
So, I would say in the movies, then

934
00:35:40,474 --> 00:35:41,855
you can just follow the chronology.

935
00:35:42,554 --> 00:35:43,054
But,

936
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,920
till the 1992, where, you know and he

937
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,500
started making more movies that was an intersection

938
00:35:49,559 --> 00:35:50,539
between families

939
00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:53,640
and values, like, kind of moved and delved

940
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,545
into that genre also, but very heavily based

941
00:35:56,545 --> 00:35:58,785
on also politics and what was going on

942
00:35:58,785 --> 00:35:59,605
in the society.

943
00:36:00,785 --> 00:36:01,925
In his writings,

944
00:36:03,744 --> 00:36:05,925
I would say since most of his writings

945
00:36:06,465 --> 00:36:08,565
were, like, for magazines

946
00:36:09,329 --> 00:36:12,050
or, like, were published, like, short stories for

947
00:36:12,050 --> 00:36:12,550
magazines.

948
00:36:13,090 --> 00:36:15,969
They are not very organized. Like, later, people

949
00:36:15,969 --> 00:36:18,530
have organized those those stories into, like, an

950
00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:22,390
anthologies or books which are available now. But,

951
00:36:24,174 --> 00:36:26,974
that's the beauty. I think Ray's work doesn't

952
00:36:26,974 --> 00:36:27,474
have,

953
00:36:28,815 --> 00:36:30,255
that kind of thing that, oh, you read

954
00:36:30,255 --> 00:36:32,894
1 and you can start from anywhere, and

955
00:36:32,894 --> 00:36:35,234
I think the flavor is intact, like, everywhere.

956
00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:38,289
We'll return to Momita later in the podcast.

957
00:36:38,670 --> 00:36:40,050
And being able to trace

958
00:36:40,510 --> 00:36:41,489
the inspiration

959
00:36:42,349 --> 00:36:45,250
for a science fiction writer, a science fiction

960
00:36:45,309 --> 00:36:45,809
filmmaker

961
00:36:46,110 --> 00:36:47,809
will become particularly interesting

962
00:36:48,264 --> 00:36:49,405
in this next section.

963
00:36:49,784 --> 00:36:51,945
But first, I asked Andrew Robinson that same

964
00:36:51,945 --> 00:36:54,585
question. Where would he start if he was

965
00:36:54,585 --> 00:36:58,025
recommending that somebody comes to raise work? Oh,

966
00:36:58,025 --> 00:36:59,644
I think the films are undoubtedly

967
00:37:00,264 --> 00:37:02,369
what people should go for and

968
00:37:02,829 --> 00:37:04,590
not too many of them. I mean, there

969
00:37:04,590 --> 00:37:06,210
are about 30 feature films,

970
00:37:07,389 --> 00:37:08,289
but I think

971
00:37:08,590 --> 00:37:11,969
just about everybody who's interested in world cinema

972
00:37:12,030 --> 00:37:13,010
will have seen

973
00:37:13,554 --> 00:37:14,135
the first

974
00:37:14,755 --> 00:37:17,015
trilogy of films, the Uproot trilogy.

975
00:37:18,195 --> 00:37:20,454
That is perhaps the most famous,

976
00:37:20,994 --> 00:37:22,914
but I would like to suggest you see

977
00:37:22,914 --> 00:37:25,235
the chess players as well because that's the

978
00:37:25,235 --> 00:37:27,659
film that got me going, and it's partly

979
00:37:27,659 --> 00:37:29,199
in English, which helped.

980
00:37:30,219 --> 00:37:32,559
Most of his films are in Bengali alone,

981
00:37:33,819 --> 00:37:35,659
but this is partly in English so you

982
00:37:35,659 --> 00:37:36,800
can follow the

983
00:37:37,420 --> 00:37:37,920
rather,

984
00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:40,079
trenchant conversations

985
00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:42,719
between Richard Attenborough as the British general

986
00:37:43,614 --> 00:37:44,914
and his ADC,

987
00:37:45,614 --> 00:37:47,075
who doesn't agree with him.

988
00:37:47,454 --> 00:37:50,175
And then the king of out who is

989
00:37:50,255 --> 00:37:52,275
the British are trying to make him abdicate

990
00:37:52,414 --> 00:37:54,960
his throne so they can grab Lucknow and

991
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,079
the state that the king rules over. And,

992
00:37:58,079 --> 00:37:58,579
eventually,

993
00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:01,119
they get their way, and Richard Attenborough told

994
00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:02,099
me that that

995
00:38:03,039 --> 00:38:05,940
every breath in my body was was against

996
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,139
what the general was doing, but I was

997
00:38:09,885 --> 00:38:11,724
I was still acting the part, and I

998
00:38:11,724 --> 00:38:13,005
had to do it as well as I

999
00:38:13,005 --> 00:38:14,304
could. Yes.

1000
00:38:14,764 --> 00:38:16,465
So he managed to pull it off.

1001
00:38:17,005 --> 00:38:19,244
I recommend that film. And there are some

1002
00:38:19,244 --> 00:38:22,125
others. There's there's there's a there's a a

1003
00:38:22,125 --> 00:38:24,385
love story set in Victorian, Calcutta

1004
00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:28,329
called Charulata, which everyone has seen. Peter Sellers

1005
00:38:28,329 --> 00:38:29,309
loved that film.

1006
00:38:29,849 --> 00:38:32,010
People like that. In fact, all over the

1007
00:38:32,010 --> 00:38:33,309
world, people love Charulata.

1008
00:38:34,010 --> 00:38:36,349
Okay. Wasn't Peter Sellers supposed to be,

1009
00:38:37,210 --> 00:38:37,710
or

1010
00:38:38,085 --> 00:38:39,684
highlighted as a possible for one of the

1011
00:38:39,684 --> 00:38:41,224
roles in one of his other films?

1012
00:38:41,525 --> 00:38:42,344
Yeah. Sure.

1013
00:38:42,885 --> 00:38:45,224
Peter Sellers and he met in Paris,

1014
00:38:46,005 --> 00:38:47,545
in in 1967

1015
00:38:48,565 --> 00:38:49,385
over lunch,

1016
00:38:49,764 --> 00:38:51,945
and they got on very well.

1017
00:38:52,565 --> 00:38:54,989
Peter Sellers was was surrounded by,

1018
00:38:56,670 --> 00:38:59,469
waiters in in in the restaurant because they

1019
00:38:59,469 --> 00:39:02,269
loved inspector Clouseau. And even though he couldn't

1020
00:39:02,269 --> 00:39:05,170
speak any French, he pretended he spoke in.

1021
00:39:06,045 --> 00:39:07,824
And we haven't found that very funny,

1022
00:39:08,764 --> 00:39:09,984
and they became friendly.

1023
00:39:11,324 --> 00:39:13,425
And Peter Sellers agreed to play

1024
00:39:14,045 --> 00:39:15,824
the part of a rich industrialist

1025
00:39:16,525 --> 00:39:17,264
in Ray's,

1026
00:39:18,844 --> 00:39:20,304
would be science fiction

1027
00:39:20,989 --> 00:39:22,609
film called The Alien,

1028
00:39:23,069 --> 00:39:23,569
which

1029
00:39:24,750 --> 00:39:25,569
he had written

1030
00:39:26,190 --> 00:39:28,049
back in Calcutta in 1967,

1031
00:39:28,589 --> 00:39:29,569
and he found

1032
00:39:30,429 --> 00:39:32,449
enthusiasm from Arthur c Clark.

1033
00:39:33,714 --> 00:39:35,014
Arthur c Clark said,

1034
00:39:35,795 --> 00:39:38,034
let's try and get this made into a

1035
00:39:38,034 --> 00:39:39,014
Hollywood film.

1036
00:39:40,835 --> 00:39:43,234
He and Arthur discussed it actually while they

1037
00:39:43,234 --> 00:39:43,974
were watching

1038
00:39:45,780 --> 00:39:47,480
Stanley Kubrick filming,

1039
00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:51,460
2,001, a Space Odyssey in London because Arthur

1040
00:39:51,460 --> 00:39:52,679
was the the screenwriter,

1041
00:39:52,980 --> 00:39:53,480
and

1042
00:39:53,940 --> 00:39:56,739
he introduced Ray to Kubrick, and Kubrick really

1043
00:39:56,739 --> 00:39:59,160
revered Ray. He he loved his work.

1044
00:39:59,585 --> 00:40:02,304
So from that point, Arthur and Ray were

1045
00:40:02,304 --> 00:40:04,304
talking quite a lot, and I knew both

1046
00:40:04,304 --> 00:40:04,885
of them,

1047
00:40:05,424 --> 00:40:06,964
you know, later in life.

1048
00:40:07,264 --> 00:40:09,204
So I was friendly with Arthur as well.

1049
00:40:09,984 --> 00:40:10,464
And,

1050
00:40:10,944 --> 00:40:13,364
Arthur pursued it. Ray then

1051
00:40:14,065 --> 00:40:14,565
got

1052
00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:17,920
to a friend of Arthur's. In fact, it

1053
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:18,819
was his partner

1054
00:40:19,119 --> 00:40:20,420
because Arthur was gay.

1055
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,019
And the Mike Wilson was his name.

1056
00:40:24,799 --> 00:40:25,539
He became

1057
00:40:25,839 --> 00:40:28,239
the would be producer of the science fiction

1058
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:28,739
project,

1059
00:40:29,114 --> 00:40:31,675
And he then introduced him to Sellers, and

1060
00:40:31,675 --> 00:40:34,094
then he went to Wilson went to Hollywood

1061
00:40:34,635 --> 00:40:35,295
and persuaded

1062
00:40:35,594 --> 00:40:36,815
Columbia to

1063
00:40:37,755 --> 00:40:38,735
back the film.

1064
00:40:39,514 --> 00:40:41,534
And so Ray ended up in Columbia

1065
00:40:42,300 --> 00:40:44,719
watching Peter Sellers shooting a film there

1066
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:48,140
and talking to legendary figures like,

1067
00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:51,599
Bridgette Bardot and people like that at parties.

1068
00:40:53,019 --> 00:40:54,480
But he got the impression

1069
00:40:55,019 --> 00:40:55,519
that,

1070
00:40:56,539 --> 00:40:57,280
Mike Wilson

1071
00:40:57,735 --> 00:40:58,235
was

1072
00:40:59,255 --> 00:41:00,394
was was talking

1073
00:41:00,775 --> 00:41:03,355
big, but not going to deliver. And

1074
00:41:03,894 --> 00:41:07,035
in the end, things went wrong, but Columbia

1075
00:41:07,095 --> 00:41:10,375
remained very, very interested in producing the film

1076
00:41:10,375 --> 00:41:11,920
if they got rid of if he got

1077
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,699
rid of Mike Wilson as producer.

1078
00:41:14,559 --> 00:41:17,360
And that's what happened. And for almost 15

1079
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,599
years, Columbia said we would like to do

1080
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:20,739
this film with you.

1081
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:22,500
And then,

1082
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,119
things went wrong, and we can talk about

1083
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:27,035
that if you wish. I would like to.

1084
00:41:27,035 --> 00:41:29,934
Yeah. So, I mean, people might not know

1085
00:41:30,394 --> 00:41:32,715
because the first film was never made. It

1086
00:41:32,715 --> 00:41:34,474
was called the alien. Can you tell us

1087
00:41:34,474 --> 00:41:37,055
sort of a little bit about the synopsis

1088
00:41:37,115 --> 00:41:38,875
of what was gonna be in this film?

1089
00:41:38,875 --> 00:41:40,414
Sure. Sure. It's about

1090
00:41:42,289 --> 00:41:42,789
a

1091
00:41:43,889 --> 00:41:45,989
young humanoid figure who

1092
00:41:46,929 --> 00:41:49,829
is piloting a spaceship, and the spaceship crashes

1093
00:41:50,929 --> 00:41:51,429
in

1094
00:41:52,130 --> 00:41:54,309
a remote village in Bengal,

1095
00:41:54,849 --> 00:41:55,989
far from the city,

1096
00:41:57,994 --> 00:42:00,735
and it crashes at night into a pond.

1097
00:42:01,594 --> 00:42:03,215
And the villages don't notice

1098
00:42:03,515 --> 00:42:06,155
it to begin with because it sinks into

1099
00:42:06,155 --> 00:42:08,075
the pond, and the only bit of it

1100
00:42:08,075 --> 00:42:11,380
that's showing is the golden spire of the

1101
00:42:11,380 --> 00:42:13,239
spaceship sticking out of the pond.

1102
00:42:14,579 --> 00:42:17,139
Now they have no idea that there is

1103
00:42:17,139 --> 00:42:17,800
this humanoid

1104
00:42:18,340 --> 00:42:19,320
creature inside.

1105
00:42:20,659 --> 00:42:22,900
They think it's most of them think it's

1106
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:23,480
a temple,

1107
00:42:25,445 --> 00:42:28,025
and they start to think they should worship

1108
00:42:28,644 --> 00:42:30,885
it because they think it's risen out of

1109
00:42:30,885 --> 00:42:31,625
the ground

1110
00:42:32,164 --> 00:42:34,164
instead of come down from the sky. They

1111
00:42:34,164 --> 00:42:36,244
know nothing about where it's come from. They

1112
00:42:36,244 --> 00:42:37,605
think it's come out of the ground, and

1113
00:42:37,605 --> 00:42:38,505
it must be

1114
00:42:38,965 --> 00:42:39,945
a a a a really important

1115
00:42:41,369 --> 00:42:41,869
religious

1116
00:42:42,969 --> 00:42:44,750
building of some kind. So

1117
00:42:45,929 --> 00:42:48,170
they think, let's worship it. And then the

1118
00:42:48,170 --> 00:42:51,549
the humanoid creature silently and invisibly comes out,

1119
00:42:53,049 --> 00:42:54,730
and they still can't see it because it

1120
00:42:54,730 --> 00:42:56,269
has magical powers.

1121
00:42:56,864 --> 00:42:59,664
And it starts to do strange things in

1122
00:42:59,664 --> 00:43:00,324
the village

1123
00:43:00,864 --> 00:43:01,364
invisibly.

1124
00:43:03,184 --> 00:43:05,364
For instance, it it it ripens

1125
00:43:05,744 --> 00:43:08,724
the paddy field of one of the villages

1126
00:43:08,864 --> 00:43:09,364
overnight,

1127
00:43:10,089 --> 00:43:12,569
and he is amazed and can't explain this

1128
00:43:12,569 --> 00:43:15,150
at all. And then it sees a mango

1129
00:43:15,769 --> 00:43:16,829
tree, and

1130
00:43:17,369 --> 00:43:17,849
and,

1131
00:43:18,170 --> 00:43:20,730
it it ripens the mango fruit at the

1132
00:43:20,730 --> 00:43:21,949
wrong time of year.

1133
00:43:22,250 --> 00:43:24,269
And then and then it sees a funeral

1134
00:43:24,409 --> 00:43:25,230
going on

1135
00:43:25,614 --> 00:43:26,114
of,

1136
00:43:26,735 --> 00:43:29,474
an old very old man, and his grandson

1137
00:43:29,614 --> 00:43:32,434
is bending over his corpse on a funeral

1138
00:43:32,575 --> 00:43:33,075
pyre.

1139
00:43:33,695 --> 00:43:34,914
And the alien

1140
00:43:35,614 --> 00:43:38,755
invisibly makes the old man open his eyes.

1141
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:41,929
The corpse opens its eyes in front of

1142
00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:43,929
the boy, the grandson,

1143
00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:45,849
and then closes them again.

1144
00:43:46,789 --> 00:43:48,949
And the grandson sees this and is very

1145
00:43:48,949 --> 00:43:49,449
shocked.

1146
00:43:50,070 --> 00:43:52,150
And the villagers don't see it, so they

1147
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:54,635
don't know what's happened. But the the grandson

1148
00:43:54,695 --> 00:43:56,215
is convinced that this,

1149
00:43:56,855 --> 00:43:57,355
something

1150
00:43:57,735 --> 00:43:59,195
magical is going on.

1151
00:44:00,695 --> 00:44:05,114
And, eventually, a US engineer who's been sent

1152
00:44:05,414 --> 00:44:08,554
into this village to dig 2 wells,

1153
00:44:09,780 --> 00:44:11,940
He's from Montana, and he's this kind of

1154
00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:13,000
can do figure.

1155
00:44:13,780 --> 00:44:14,280
He,

1156
00:44:15,380 --> 00:44:17,719
he works with a local Indian industrialist

1157
00:44:18,099 --> 00:44:20,340
to try and dig out the pond or

1158
00:44:20,340 --> 00:44:21,860
at least that's what he wants to do

1159
00:44:21,860 --> 00:44:23,160
to find out what this

1160
00:44:23,684 --> 00:44:24,184
strange

1161
00:44:24,885 --> 00:44:26,265
building in it is.

1162
00:44:26,805 --> 00:44:29,625
And that's when the alien inside the spaceship

1163
00:44:29,765 --> 00:44:32,265
suddenly realizes that he's in trouble.

1164
00:44:33,285 --> 00:44:35,445
And so the last scene of the film

1165
00:44:35,445 --> 00:44:36,344
has the spaceship

1166
00:44:37,260 --> 00:44:37,760
suddenly,

1167
00:44:39,179 --> 00:44:41,739
rushing out of the pond and disappearing back

1168
00:44:41,739 --> 00:44:42,239
into

1169
00:44:42,699 --> 00:44:43,199
into

1170
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:44,320
outer space,

1171
00:44:45,019 --> 00:44:46,780
before they can dig it out and,

1172
00:44:47,659 --> 00:44:48,800
harass the alien,

1173
00:44:49,340 --> 00:44:50,239
with equipment.

1174
00:44:51,945 --> 00:44:54,184
So, you know, it's about the landing of

1175
00:44:54,184 --> 00:44:57,164
a a a rather innocent and,

1176
00:44:58,105 --> 00:44:58,605
humorous

1177
00:44:59,224 --> 00:44:59,724
young

1178
00:45:00,425 --> 00:45:00,925
humanoid,

1179
00:45:02,025 --> 00:45:04,425
figure without any eyes, by the way. This

1180
00:45:04,425 --> 00:45:06,025
is one thing that Ray thought would be

1181
00:45:06,025 --> 00:45:08,680
interesting. It has sockets for eyes, but no

1182
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:09,180
eye,

1183
00:45:09,559 --> 00:45:11,660
and he called it a sort of whimsy.

1184
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:13,320
That was the word he used for it.

1185
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,239
He he said it's not really a a

1186
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:15,739
serious

1187
00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:17,019
figure, but,

1188
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,320
I tried to put some real science in

1189
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:20,204
as well as

1190
00:45:20,684 --> 00:45:22,684
science fiction, and and I call it a

1191
00:45:22,684 --> 00:45:23,184
whimsy.

1192
00:45:24,045 --> 00:45:25,965
And that's really the cause of what went

1193
00:45:25,965 --> 00:45:27,565
wrong, I think. It was it was a

1194
00:45:27,565 --> 00:45:28,864
kind of comical

1195
00:45:29,325 --> 00:45:30,385
creation and,

1196
00:45:31,724 --> 00:45:32,625
then it was

1197
00:45:33,300 --> 00:45:34,280
it caused

1198
00:45:35,699 --> 00:45:37,640
interesting controversy in Hollywood.

1199
00:45:39,780 --> 00:45:41,539
In what well, hang on just a second.

1200
00:45:41,539 --> 00:45:43,219
So it I I can imagine in the

1201
00:45:43,219 --> 00:45:44,739
19 sixties, I'm a bit of a science

1202
00:45:44,739 --> 00:45:47,140
fiction fan. Right? So thinking back to the

1203
00:45:47,140 --> 00:45:49,275
films of the 19 sixties, that would have

1204
00:45:49,514 --> 00:45:50,014
stuck

1205
00:45:50,474 --> 00:45:52,234
out a lot. Right? It would have been

1206
00:45:52,234 --> 00:45:52,734
amazing,

1207
00:45:53,114 --> 00:45:54,394
but it would have stuck out a lot.

1208
00:45:54,394 --> 00:45:55,914
It wasn't the sort of thing that was

1209
00:45:55,914 --> 00:45:57,674
made in the Yeah. It might have worked

1210
00:45:57,674 --> 00:45:59,135
in the eighties, you might think.

1211
00:45:59,514 --> 00:46:01,775
Yes. There might be that sort of Absolutely.

1212
00:46:01,949 --> 00:46:02,449
Yes.

1213
00:46:02,989 --> 00:46:03,489
Yes.

1214
00:46:04,269 --> 00:46:06,769
So tell us about the controversy then. Well,

1215
00:46:07,469 --> 00:46:07,969
1967

1216
00:46:08,510 --> 00:46:10,690
was when Roe was hoping to make it.

1217
00:46:11,710 --> 00:46:12,210
And

1218
00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:15,309
long and short of it is that father

1219
00:46:15,309 --> 00:46:18,265
Clark kept on encouraging him. Columbia kept on

1220
00:46:18,265 --> 00:46:19,244
encouraging him.

1221
00:46:19,545 --> 00:46:21,485
They got rid of Mike Wilson,

1222
00:46:22,985 --> 00:46:26,265
and the producers at Columbia said, well, let's

1223
00:46:26,265 --> 00:46:27,164
pursue this.

1224
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,359
But it was a very difficult project for

1225
00:46:30,359 --> 00:46:32,219
an Indian director to make,

1226
00:46:32,679 --> 00:46:34,699
even the one as famous as Ray.

1227
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,820
He was not from Hollywood in any way.

1228
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,859
So there were financial difficulties,

1229
00:46:41,159 --> 00:46:42,219
technical difficulties,

1230
00:46:42,679 --> 00:46:43,179
and

1231
00:46:44,375 --> 00:46:46,454
many many other problems, and so it kept

1232
00:46:46,454 --> 00:46:47,434
on being delayed.

1233
00:46:48,214 --> 00:46:49,355
But in the end,

1234
00:46:50,295 --> 00:46:51,114
in 1982,

1235
00:46:53,014 --> 00:46:56,135
well, 1st race or Close Encounters of the

1236
00:46:56,135 --> 00:46:58,315
3rd Kind in the late 19 seventies,

1237
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,480
and he thought, oh, dear. This is a

1238
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,019
bit similar to my story.

1239
00:47:02,559 --> 00:47:03,940
And then he saw ET

1240
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:06,180
by Steven Spielberg

1241
00:47:06,559 --> 00:47:07,380
in 1982,

1242
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,219
and his heart fell

1243
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:10,980
because,

1244
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:13,619
there was

1245
00:47:14,704 --> 00:47:15,605
definite similarities

1246
00:47:16,065 --> 00:47:17,204
between his script

1247
00:47:17,985 --> 00:47:19,925
and the story of ET.

1248
00:47:20,945 --> 00:47:23,364
Not identical, but many similarities.

1249
00:47:24,385 --> 00:47:24,885
And

1250
00:47:25,585 --> 00:47:27,284
he frankly thought

1251
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,119
something's been going on here, which is not

1252
00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:30,619
really

1253
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,139
very honest because I know that my script

1254
00:47:34,679 --> 00:47:35,579
was circulated

1255
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,380
in large numbers in mimeographed

1256
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,460
form back in 1967

1257
00:47:41,559 --> 00:47:42,059
throughout

1258
00:47:42,465 --> 00:47:44,465
America as he put it, and certainly a

1259
00:47:44,465 --> 00:47:45,525
lot within Hollywood.

1260
00:47:45,825 --> 00:47:47,905
Copies were made to try and sell it

1261
00:47:47,905 --> 00:47:48,885
to different companies.

1262
00:47:51,505 --> 00:47:52,724
And Ray never

1263
00:47:53,025 --> 00:47:54,785
quite could get to the bottom of it,

1264
00:47:54,785 --> 00:47:56,244
but he felt that,

1265
00:47:56,610 --> 00:47:58,789
frankly speaking, the script had been seen

1266
00:48:01,410 --> 00:48:03,670
by the producers of ET.

1267
00:48:05,650 --> 00:48:07,349
Spielberg denied this.

1268
00:48:08,690 --> 00:48:11,809
In 1984, he went to see Arthur Clarke

1269
00:48:11,809 --> 00:48:12,309
in

1270
00:48:12,824 --> 00:48:14,605
Sri Lanka where Arthur lived,

1271
00:48:15,144 --> 00:48:17,545
and and he got a bit annoyed when

1272
00:48:17,545 --> 00:48:19,864
Arthur said, look. I think there are some

1273
00:48:19,864 --> 00:48:20,364
similarities,

1274
00:48:21,224 --> 00:48:25,005
rather strange similarities between ET and Ray's script.

1275
00:48:25,569 --> 00:48:26,630
And Spielberg said,

1276
00:48:27,650 --> 00:48:28,150
look,

1277
00:48:29,010 --> 00:48:31,250
when that script was circulating in Hollywood, which

1278
00:48:31,250 --> 00:48:33,650
he admitted it had, I was a kid

1279
00:48:33,650 --> 00:48:34,630
in high school.

1280
00:48:35,809 --> 00:48:37,244
Now that's just not true.

1281
00:48:37,644 --> 00:48:39,164
He was not a kid in high school.

1282
00:48:39,164 --> 00:48:41,265
He was 20 years old in 1967,

1283
00:48:41,724 --> 00:48:44,765
and he was becoming a movie director in

1284
00:48:44,765 --> 00:48:45,505
his twenties.

1285
00:48:46,445 --> 00:48:47,985
So it's just not accurate,

1286
00:48:49,485 --> 00:48:52,224
and I I I think the problem is

1287
00:48:54,179 --> 00:48:56,599
that there's no doubt the script was available.

1288
00:48:57,619 --> 00:48:59,480
Ray didn't want to pursue the similarities,

1289
00:48:59,780 --> 00:49:02,039
he said I have better things to do,

1290
00:49:03,940 --> 00:49:06,500
so we'll never know for sure. But I

1291
00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:07,559
can tell you this,

1292
00:49:07,994 --> 00:49:08,734
in 2010,

1293
00:49:09,114 --> 00:49:10,255
Martin Scorsese,

1294
00:49:11,194 --> 00:49:13,134
the American director who was

1295
00:49:14,074 --> 00:49:16,174
a a huge admirer of Ray,

1296
00:49:16,714 --> 00:49:19,034
and he he really does treasure Ray's work.

1297
00:49:19,034 --> 00:49:20,014
There's no question.

1298
00:49:20,690 --> 00:49:23,329
Again and again, Scorsese has spoken about how

1299
00:49:23,329 --> 00:49:25,170
he loves Ray's work ever since he was

1300
00:49:25,170 --> 00:49:25,750
a teenager.

1301
00:49:26,289 --> 00:49:28,389
Scorsese openly said in 2010,

1302
00:49:29,250 --> 00:49:31,670
I have no qualms in admitting that

1303
00:49:32,364 --> 00:49:35,724
Steven Spielberg's ET was influenced by Satya Jit

1304
00:49:35,724 --> 00:49:36,864
Ray's Alien,

1305
00:49:37,724 --> 00:49:40,844
and even sir Richard Attenborough pointed this out

1306
00:49:40,844 --> 00:49:42,625
to me as he put it.

1307
00:49:43,164 --> 00:49:46,445
Right. Okay. And many others have, quite frankly.

1308
00:49:46,445 --> 00:49:48,869
It's not a surprising fact nowadays.

1309
00:49:49,570 --> 00:49:52,289
It's certainly difficult to pinpoint exactly where the

1310
00:49:52,289 --> 00:49:54,150
inspiration for an idea came from.

1311
00:49:54,530 --> 00:49:55,909
When I was speaking to Momita,

1312
00:49:56,210 --> 00:49:57,670
I was thinking about the

1313
00:49:57,969 --> 00:50:00,869
space race and how that influenced space films.

1314
00:50:01,170 --> 00:50:03,625
But those films were very much about the

1315
00:50:03,625 --> 00:50:06,684
space race, about humans going out into space.

1316
00:50:06,744 --> 00:50:08,585
And those big sci fi films of the

1317
00:50:08,585 --> 00:50:10,684
time were really about

1318
00:50:11,065 --> 00:50:12,045
alien invasions.

1319
00:50:12,744 --> 00:50:14,605
So something like ET,

1320
00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:17,440
something like the alien would really have stood

1321
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:18,900
out at the time.

1322
00:50:19,359 --> 00:50:22,079
Arthur c Clark, writing in The Times in

1323
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:23,539
response to Andrew Robinson's

1324
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,099
profile on Sacagit Ray,

1325
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,155
says, it's quite true that as the initial

1326
00:50:29,215 --> 00:50:31,954
financier of the alien, I wrote to Ray

1327
00:50:32,015 --> 00:50:34,735
pointing out some striking parallels between the two

1328
00:50:34,735 --> 00:50:37,554
screenplays and suggesting that he contact Spielberg.

1329
00:50:38,655 --> 00:50:40,889
My chief concern was that he might be

1330
00:50:40,889 --> 00:50:42,109
accused of plagiarism

1331
00:50:42,409 --> 00:50:44,109
if the alien was ever made.

1332
00:50:44,409 --> 00:50:47,449
I certainly never encouraged legal action. Artists have

1333
00:50:47,449 --> 00:50:49,369
better things to do with their time. In

1334
00:50:49,369 --> 00:50:52,829
any case, encounters between children and friendly ETs

1335
00:50:53,130 --> 00:50:55,230
are an old concept in science fiction.

1336
00:50:55,695 --> 00:50:58,114
Notable examples are Theodore Sturgeon's,

1337
00:50:58,414 --> 00:51:00,275
May Wu's Jet in 1946,

1338
00:51:00,815 --> 00:51:02,275
and Robert Heinlein's novel,

1339
00:51:02,575 --> 00:51:04,195
Star Beast from 1954.

1340
00:51:05,135 --> 00:51:06,994
When I broached the subject with Spielberg

1341
00:51:07,295 --> 00:51:09,539
on his recent visit to Sri Lanka, he

1342
00:51:09,539 --> 00:51:10,679
replied rather indignantly,

1343
00:51:11,140 --> 00:51:13,539
tell Satyajit I was a kid in high

1344
00:51:13,539 --> 00:51:15,880
school when his script was circulating in Hollywood.

1345
00:51:16,340 --> 00:51:18,260
I'm quite happy to take his word on

1346
00:51:18,260 --> 00:51:20,260
the matter and would hate to cause any

1347
00:51:20,260 --> 00:51:23,000
ill feeling between 2 of the greatest geniuses

1348
00:51:23,525 --> 00:51:25,704
the movies have ever produced.

1349
00:51:26,405 --> 00:51:28,905
Arthur c Clarke writing from Sri Lanka

1350
00:51:29,204 --> 00:51:30,184
to The Times.

1351
00:51:30,805 --> 00:51:34,085
Obviously, as discussed, the slight issue there is

1352
00:51:34,085 --> 00:51:36,344
that Spielberg was in fact 20

1353
00:51:36,644 --> 00:51:38,969
at the time. Here's Momita Dasgupta

1354
00:51:39,449 --> 00:51:40,889
again. I was just,

1355
00:51:41,289 --> 00:51:42,109
going over

1356
00:51:42,489 --> 00:51:45,050
things and, you know, the alien story. I

1357
00:51:45,050 --> 00:51:47,210
knew about this alien story, like, you know,

1358
00:51:47,210 --> 00:51:47,710
that,

1359
00:51:48,170 --> 00:51:49,630
it was it dates

1360
00:51:50,409 --> 00:51:52,650
much before Spielberg, like, you know, and then

1361
00:51:52,650 --> 00:51:53,534
he took this.

1362
00:51:54,094 --> 00:51:55,954
But I was actually listening to

1363
00:51:56,335 --> 00:51:58,815
an interview, which is in Bengali. I wish

1364
00:51:58,815 --> 00:52:00,494
I could, you know, tell you, but it

1365
00:52:00,494 --> 00:52:02,114
was it did not have any,

1366
00:52:04,255 --> 00:52:04,755
subtitles.

1367
00:52:05,135 --> 00:52:05,550
But,

1368
00:52:06,269 --> 00:52:08,750
but Satyajit Ray was actually talking in that

1369
00:52:08,750 --> 00:52:10,449
video. It's available on YouTube.

1370
00:52:10,829 --> 00:52:11,309
And,

1371
00:52:11,710 --> 00:52:12,369
you know,

1372
00:52:12,989 --> 00:52:16,110
something really struck me, which was, like, very

1373
00:52:16,110 --> 00:52:18,454
original for the time that he belong.

1374
00:52:19,235 --> 00:52:20,055
Over there,

1375
00:52:20,515 --> 00:52:22,675
you know and he was expressing a little

1376
00:52:22,675 --> 00:52:23,655
bit of dissatisfaction

1377
00:52:23,954 --> 00:52:26,515
that, you know, Spielberg has already made Ity

1378
00:52:26,515 --> 00:52:27,175
by then

1379
00:52:27,474 --> 00:52:28,695
and the uncanny

1380
00:52:29,635 --> 00:52:32,535
resemblance between Ity and his work.

1381
00:52:32,849 --> 00:52:34,610
And he was like, you know, now if

1382
00:52:34,610 --> 00:52:36,210
I were to make it, like, I would

1383
00:52:36,210 --> 00:52:38,470
be the one who looks like he's plagiarized,

1384
00:52:38,690 --> 00:52:41,329
but very uncanny resemblance. Like, you know, the

1385
00:52:41,329 --> 00:52:43,970
3 fingers and he his alien had he

1386
00:52:43,970 --> 00:52:46,210
used to raise 3 finger. Their alien raised

1387
00:52:46,210 --> 00:52:46,950
4 fingers.

1388
00:52:47,405 --> 00:52:50,385
And, like, you know, the structure like, this

1389
00:52:50,684 --> 00:52:53,244
little boy, the alien almost looked like this

1390
00:52:53,244 --> 00:52:55,644
little boy with, like, you know, socket like

1391
00:52:55,644 --> 00:52:56,144
eyes.

1392
00:52:56,525 --> 00:52:59,505
And then but there were very subtle differences.

1393
00:53:00,284 --> 00:53:00,784
And

1394
00:53:01,789 --> 00:53:04,429
while I was listening to that and I

1395
00:53:04,429 --> 00:53:06,130
was actually, you know, envisioning

1396
00:53:06,670 --> 00:53:08,989
what the movie Spielberg made, like, I could

1397
00:53:08,989 --> 00:53:10,050
actually understand

1398
00:53:10,670 --> 00:53:11,650
his distinction,

1399
00:53:12,269 --> 00:53:14,769
and I found something, like, you know, really,

1400
00:53:14,909 --> 00:53:15,150
really

1401
00:53:16,425 --> 00:53:18,105
I don't know. It kind of blew my

1402
00:53:18,105 --> 00:53:20,105
mind at that point. So, you know, all

1403
00:53:20,105 --> 00:53:22,184
these IT movies and, like, around that, the

1404
00:53:22,184 --> 00:53:24,204
sci fi movies that we used to work,

1405
00:53:24,344 --> 00:53:26,045
look at over there.

1406
00:53:27,304 --> 00:53:30,824
The creature would mostly be robot like would

1407
00:53:30,824 --> 00:53:33,300
be a robot, and they would be pressing

1408
00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:34,680
buttons in their spaceships

1409
00:53:34,980 --> 00:53:36,980
to get, like, around that time, like, you

1410
00:53:36,980 --> 00:53:38,599
know, how they envisioned aliens.

1411
00:53:38,980 --> 00:53:39,880
But his

1412
00:53:40,579 --> 00:53:41,860
way of looking at,

1413
00:53:42,340 --> 00:53:45,539
alien was very different. So he was going

1414
00:53:45,539 --> 00:53:47,559
by his intuition about life.

1415
00:53:47,945 --> 00:53:50,824
And he said that, you know, life exists

1416
00:53:50,824 --> 00:53:53,465
because there is, like, some chemical reactions and,

1417
00:53:53,465 --> 00:53:55,005
like, the amino acids

1418
00:53:55,304 --> 00:53:57,465
is the basis for all life. So if

1419
00:53:57,465 --> 00:53:59,784
life has to exist in different planets, it

1420
00:53:59,784 --> 00:54:01,625
would exist the same way. It wouldn't be

1421
00:54:01,625 --> 00:54:04,099
very different from what it is, what how

1422
00:54:04,099 --> 00:54:05,079
we see life.

1423
00:54:05,380 --> 00:54:07,320
So he talked about,

1424
00:54:08,019 --> 00:54:08,920
this alien

1425
00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:11,300
who is this who looks like a little

1426
00:54:11,300 --> 00:54:14,019
boy. It's almost weightless. It can stand on

1427
00:54:14,019 --> 00:54:15,699
a leaf. It cannot, like you know, it

1428
00:54:15,699 --> 00:54:17,539
is so weightless. It can stand on a

1429
00:54:17,539 --> 00:54:20,994
leaf, but it is actually made out of

1430
00:54:21,454 --> 00:54:21,954
veins

1431
00:54:22,255 --> 00:54:25,234
and vessels and blood vessels and a very,

1432
00:54:25,855 --> 00:54:28,114
lifelike form. And even the spaceship

1433
00:54:28,894 --> 00:54:31,500
where he would live was also very organic.

1434
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:33,179
Like, you know, it would be made out

1435
00:54:33,179 --> 00:54:35,660
of, like, you know, lifelike things because in

1436
00:54:35,660 --> 00:54:37,840
order to support life, you need life.

1437
00:54:38,219 --> 00:54:41,260
And I found that was very striking, his

1438
00:54:41,260 --> 00:54:42,400
vision about,

1439
00:54:43,875 --> 00:54:45,655
alien and his alien

1440
00:54:46,355 --> 00:54:47,414
and the life

1441
00:54:47,795 --> 00:54:50,695
that he envisioned was very, very

1442
00:54:50,994 --> 00:54:51,494
original

1443
00:54:51,795 --> 00:54:52,934
at that point.

1444
00:54:53,235 --> 00:54:55,235
I mean, of course, later, there have been,

1445
00:54:55,235 --> 00:54:56,434
like, you know, we we see a lot

1446
00:54:56,434 --> 00:54:57,954
of movies and things. But in that point

1447
00:54:57,954 --> 00:54:59,769
in 19 sixties when no one had made

1448
00:54:59,769 --> 00:55:02,989
any movies about any aliens, like, his idea

1449
00:55:03,130 --> 00:55:06,250
about aliens and how he wanted to portray

1450
00:55:06,250 --> 00:55:07,069
his alien,

1451
00:55:07,529 --> 00:55:08,190
I thought,

1452
00:55:08,489 --> 00:55:10,269
like, you know and this whole

1453
00:55:10,889 --> 00:55:13,815
little thing that life is life. It is

1454
00:55:13,815 --> 00:55:15,894
same everywhere. And, you know, I I don't

1455
00:55:15,894 --> 00:55:17,514
know. The biophysics and physicist

1456
00:55:17,974 --> 00:55:20,295
inside me kind of got excited about that

1457
00:55:20,295 --> 00:55:21,034
that vision

1458
00:55:21,335 --> 00:55:22,074
of Ray.

1459
00:55:22,454 --> 00:55:24,855
As a listener to this podcast, I assume

1460
00:55:24,855 --> 00:55:26,714
that you're interested in physics.

1461
00:55:27,014 --> 00:55:29,130
And if you're still wondering whether you should

1462
00:55:29,130 --> 00:55:31,929
delve into such a great work for one

1463
00:55:31,929 --> 00:55:33,710
last time, here's Andrew Robinson.

1464
00:55:34,170 --> 00:55:35,869
Science in the broader sense

1465
00:55:37,050 --> 00:55:39,630
quite often in the films, really quite often.

1466
00:55:40,755 --> 00:55:42,694
Physics, I would say, is

1467
00:55:43,074 --> 00:55:45,094
apart from the science fiction is restricted

1468
00:55:45,954 --> 00:55:46,454
largely

1469
00:55:46,755 --> 00:55:48,135
to comment on

1470
00:55:50,355 --> 00:55:50,855
machines,

1471
00:55:52,355 --> 00:55:54,855
such as railway trains, that kind of thing,

1472
00:55:55,579 --> 00:55:56,800
and how they work,

1473
00:55:57,179 --> 00:55:59,500
and then astronomy. He he he had a

1474
00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:01,360
keen interest in astronomy.

1475
00:56:02,140 --> 00:56:04,219
And there are in his last film, there's

1476
00:56:04,219 --> 00:56:05,360
a there's an exchange

1477
00:56:05,980 --> 00:56:07,599
about astronomy where

1478
00:56:08,255 --> 00:56:10,815
the the the elderly man who's the hero

1479
00:56:10,815 --> 00:56:12,195
of the film says to his

1480
00:56:12,494 --> 00:56:14,994
great nephew that isn't it strange that,

1481
00:56:17,135 --> 00:56:18,515
the sun and the moon

1482
00:56:19,295 --> 00:56:21,074
are of roughly the same size

1483
00:56:21,609 --> 00:56:22,429
in the sky

1484
00:56:22,730 --> 00:56:23,949
they appear to be,

1485
00:56:24,409 --> 00:56:26,969
and that the Earth is the right size

1486
00:56:26,969 --> 00:56:29,289
for solar and lunar eclipses. Isn't that a

1487
00:56:29,289 --> 00:56:31,530
strange fact? How do you explain it? And

1488
00:56:31,530 --> 00:56:33,070
the boy can't explain it.

1489
00:56:33,704 --> 00:56:34,144
So,

1490
00:56:34,585 --> 00:56:35,805
the the elderly

1491
00:56:36,505 --> 00:56:39,065
hero says, well, it's it's true, and it's

1492
00:56:39,065 --> 00:56:41,085
one of those magical mysteries

1493
00:56:42,505 --> 00:56:44,905
in in in astronomy, which we can't really

1494
00:56:44,905 --> 00:56:45,405
explain.

1495
00:56:46,820 --> 00:56:48,579
And and so they make a a sort

1496
00:56:48,579 --> 00:56:50,440
of joke out of it, but it's semiseries.

1497
00:56:52,179 --> 00:56:54,500
And and I think it's fair to say

1498
00:56:54,500 --> 00:56:56,340
that there are a few other references of

1499
00:56:56,340 --> 00:56:56,840
that

1500
00:56:57,140 --> 00:56:58,900
kind, but I don't want to give you

1501
00:56:58,900 --> 00:57:00,760
the impression that Ray is a physicist.

1502
00:57:01,194 --> 00:57:03,855
He's not that, but he's very, very sympathetic

1503
00:57:04,234 --> 00:57:04,894
to the scientific

1504
00:57:05,355 --> 00:57:06,335
attitude, and

1505
00:57:06,795 --> 00:57:08,974
in no way was he openly

1506
00:57:09,594 --> 00:57:10,094
religious.

1507
00:57:10,714 --> 00:57:12,174
I mean, very many

1508
00:57:12,954 --> 00:57:13,454
Indian

1509
00:57:13,835 --> 00:57:15,054
directors are sympathetic

1510
00:57:15,514 --> 00:57:15,989
to

1511
00:57:16,550 --> 00:57:17,050
Hinduism

1512
00:57:17,349 --> 00:57:19,130
and other Indian religions,

1513
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:21,769
but Ray was pretty much,

1514
00:57:23,590 --> 00:57:24,409
free of

1515
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:25,690
religious

1516
00:57:25,989 --> 00:57:28,650
devotion of any kind. His he was dominated

1517
00:57:28,789 --> 00:57:29,289
by

1518
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:30,889
rational thinking,

1519
00:57:31,335 --> 00:57:33,094
I think, throughout his life, but he was

1520
00:57:33,094 --> 00:57:35,414
immensely creative as well. And, of course, creative

1521
00:57:35,414 --> 00:57:35,914
people

1522
00:57:36,215 --> 00:57:37,914
have other sources of inspiration.

1523
00:57:38,215 --> 00:57:39,755
But he did say and I'll

1524
00:57:40,135 --> 00:57:42,954
I'll stop here. He did say science,

1525
00:57:43,500 --> 00:57:46,480
I think, will explain the mystery of creation

1526
00:57:47,099 --> 00:57:48,480
and the creation of life

1527
00:57:48,860 --> 00:57:49,920
in the same way

1528
00:57:50,380 --> 00:57:51,199
as the

1529
00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:53,679
the atom has been explained by Physics

1530
00:57:54,059 --> 00:57:54,559
eventually.

1531
00:57:55,179 --> 00:57:57,679
But I don't think Science will ever explain

1532
00:57:59,085 --> 00:57:59,585
creativity,

1533
00:58:00,445 --> 00:58:03,324
how ideas occur in a flash. He said,

1534
00:58:03,324 --> 00:58:05,484
I I don't think science will explain that.

1535
00:58:05,484 --> 00:58:07,664
Thank you so much to Momita Das Gupta

1536
00:58:07,724 --> 00:58:09,885
and Andrew Robinson for talking to me for

1537
00:58:09,885 --> 00:58:12,240
this episode of the Physics World Stories podcast.

1538
00:58:12,539 --> 00:58:14,860
And don't forget you can read more about

1539
00:58:14,860 --> 00:58:17,579
Satyajit Ray from Andrew Robinson on the Physics

1540
00:58:17,579 --> 00:58:20,539
World website, physics world dot com, and in

1541
00:58:20,539 --> 00:58:23,500
the Physics World magazine this month. We'll be

1542
00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:25,820
back next month with something else from this

1543
00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:28,744
wonderful world of physics. And thank you very

1544
00:58:28,744 --> 00:58:30,045
much for listening.

1545
00:58:34,744 --> 00:58:35,964
Physics world.