Takeaways from the 2026 Players Championship with Kevin Van Valkenburg & Joseph LaMagna

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

00:00:02
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my.

00:00:05
Speaker 3: Ball in a brid egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Friday Frida egg Egg, fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump.

00:00:37
Speaker 4: Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson.

00:00:41
Speaker 2: Today.

00:00:42
Speaker 4: I am excited to talk about the Players Championship. I was on site for most of the week, I guess the beginning part of the week before I came back watching it at home this weekend.

00:00:54
Speaker 2: It was a delightful watch.

00:00:55
Speaker 4: I think, you know, Saturday people were a little disappointed in but I thought the back nine Sunday really delivered.

00:01:02
Speaker 2: Cameron Young snags his biggest win of his career.

00:01:06
Speaker 4: He'd been a guy that was knocking on the door for for years, uh and it was great to see him kind of get get through Sunday and and really go out there and win it. I thought it was a It was a pretty fascinating tournament just in terms of the names. In a way, I think it was good for golf to you know, Rory and Scotti dominate so much. It was great to have a compelling tournament with with those guys.

00:01:33
Speaker 2: Uh kind of not in the mix. Uh, so to talk about it.

00:01:37
Speaker 4: To break down the players, I brought in Joseph LaMagna from Friday Golf, who was on the ground most of the week, as well as Kevin van Valkenberg who watched from home, so we'll be fun to chat with them break down. We're gonna do three big takeaways from the week for each of us and and kind of bat around the big topics of players week before we get to them. We had kind of wall to wall coverage of the players and that's a big thanks to Optum. Optum is a pro partner of the Players Championship, but they are also making the healthcare system simpler, smarter, and more connected. Optims capabilities include patient care, pharmacy services, health intelligence.

00:02:23
Speaker 2: And AI.

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Speaker 4: Rory Mackleroy, the aforementioned, is a optim Health Ambassador and big thanks to optim for their support of our Players Championship coverage. All right, let's get to Joseph and KVV.

00:02:39
Speaker 2: Now. All right, Joseph KVV, welcome on the pod. Excited to chat about this year's players.

00:02:56
Speaker 1: Andy I did not think that I would be jealous about sitting this one out. I was trying to stay at home get some stuff, and then Sunday afternoon, I was really like, God, I wish I was there when this tournament is good. It's so good.

00:03:08
Speaker 4: I the back nine, I mean the golf course. I guess I'll just get into my first thing, my first big takeaway.

00:03:19
Speaker 2: I am ready.

00:03:22
Speaker 4: I you know, I think for years I would laugh at like somebody that says TPC Sawgrass is more fun to watch than Augusta National. I'm not gonna make the debate that it's it's it's more compelling tournament golf course than Augusta. But I won't laugh someone off the stage. If they do that, I will listen. I will acknowledge. I think TPC Sawgrass is, without a doubt, the most fun annual tournament course that we get outside of Augusta. So that doesn't count, like we don't get shit a cock doesn't count. I'm saying, year and year out, it's on the schedule every year. I think this is the most fun tournament course outside of Augusta. And I think it's pretty close to Augusta and where I got to with this is.

00:04:18
Speaker 3: You know, this is just.

00:04:19
Speaker 4: An anecdotal thing, but when you're watching golf, particularly particularly on TV, A thing I noticed is there are moments in the round when you know the golf course where you lean forward and you are highly anticipating where a shot will go. And I think Sawgrass might have more of these than any golf course that they play year and year out. You know, it kind of starts. I would say, the first one happens on four, and it's the fourth T shot. You know, if they hit the fairway, it's gonna be a really good birdie opportunity. But the general bailout miss is left. If they miss it left, all of a sudden, it brings all sorts of outcomes into play, and then I would go.

00:05:09
Speaker 2: Kind of forward.

00:05:10
Speaker 4: Is like the second shot on nine is another moment that I just like immediately am like, oh, what's going to happen? You know, there's some moments in between there there are really interesting shots, like the T shot on five, but then you go to the back nine, the second shot on eleven, the T shot on twelve. Albeit it's not like a great hole, it is one where like you can make it two or three pretty easily. Then you go, the T shot on fourteen is such a pivotal moment in the round. The T shot and second shot on sixteen, the T shot on seventeen, the T shot on eighteen. You just it just has so many shots that you as if you or feel like you can't miss it. Is like I can't get up out of my seat to go get a water because I need.

00:05:56
Speaker 2: To see this guy hit this shot.

00:05:58
Speaker 4: And I you know, you could go, oh, there are so many things that you could dive into about Sawgrass, But like for me, at the very high level, like the basic like why is this so compelling? Is because I don't know of another course that has as many of those shots.

00:06:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say the only one for me that's on the regular schedule is Pebble. But the most of those shots occur like in the front of the round or the beginning of the round. And part of the genius of Sagrass is that you're anticipating the entire time what's coming up at the end, and the high leverage shots come there. And I think, like maybe that's the argument for flipping pebble, right, like flipping the nines or something, or rerouting it, but I just feel like, you know, whatever dies genius was like creating that drama late in the round has proven to slowly, like overtime, win everyone over to where they really just love the back finish of the players.

00:06:56
Speaker 3: I think to Kevin's point, it's not crazy to say that Sawgrass facilitates a better entertainment product than Augusta. With the closing stretch sixteen to eighteen blows Augusta's sixteen to eighteen out of the water. Doesn't mean it's a better golf course. Obviously, that middle stretch at Augusta pretty much everything between like eight and fifteen has your attention heightened. But the finish at Augusta is pretty underwhelming, And at Sawgrass, you know the tournament is not over until the guy hits a t shot on eighteen. At that point it's pretty much secured. But if you're up three with three to play, that tournament is still alive. And from an entertainment standpoint, that's one of the best things that TPC Sawgrass offers. So I had another Takeawy about Sawgrass, and maybe we'll get to in a little bit, but I Andy, I don't think it's crazy to say that Sawgrass is very close to Augusta from an entertainment standpoint, especially considering that closing stretch.

00:07:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, I you know, one of the things that you get get more into the golf course. I think the cadence of the golf course, the ebb and flow is fantastic. So start out the round one, two, three, four is a really gettible stretch where you see guys regularly they might make three birdies in that first four holes. You could conceivably go out and birdy all of them. You also, I think, like what's really important with Sagrass, All these holes that we're saying are gettible and birdiable are also it's conceivable to make a double on and that like the high high variance, and I think mostly that's created by the water hazards, but that extreme high variance, that wide range of outcomes is of scores is kind of the magic of it.

00:08:45
Speaker 2: But this ebb and.

00:08:46
Speaker 4: Flow of one through four, scorable, five through eight, really tough, really really a tough stretch. Then you go nine through thirteen, nine through twelve on Sundays, nine through thirty teen on some days, depending on the pin on thirteen, really get a ball again. Then you go, you know, thirteen through fifteen on some days or fourteen fifteen really tough, and then sixteen through eighteen anything can happen. And I think that that cadence is so magic for the viewer because it's like it's easy to follow, and what it does is it creates like a lot of movement on the board, which makes a really entertaining television product, and it's players going up and down rapidly because there is so much scorability.

00:09:38
Speaker 2: But then also as we saw with Ludvig.

00:09:40
Speaker 4: You can you can really trip up the scorebol holes where he doubled eleven and twelve, and it was like that's a stretch where you're like, oh, Ludvig might be able to ice it here, and instead he just lost it.

00:09:53
Speaker 2: So I think like.

00:09:56
Speaker 4: It maybe TBC Sawgrass isn't isn't studied enough in terms of like the cadence, the you know, delivering a you know what we particularly look.

00:10:10
Speaker 2: At a tournament golf.

00:10:12
Speaker 4: Maybe modern architecture has diminished, you know what water can do for a pro golf test.

00:10:20
Speaker 2: Maybe we don't talk about that enough.

00:10:23
Speaker 4: But the formula for TPC Sawgrass is incredible for watching high high level golf.

00:10:32
Speaker 3: Maybe I should get to one of my takeaways. Then I was gonna save it for the end. But if we're talking about what TPC saw grass does, we can unpack it here. I think one thing you didn't mention Andy that is a key part of sawgrass is it makes you hit different types of shots, and the guys who aren't fully comfortable with their games will eventually lose it if given that, you have to shape the ball in different ways, like Justin Thomas made a complete mess of six on I believe that was was that on Saturday. I think that was on Saturday where he tried to tea that driver down, ended up pulling it left and into the water and made a big number. Like that's going to happen the triple. Yeah, Ludwig obviously lost it on eleven and twelve on Sunday. Like you have to shape the ball different ways because of the trees like that, that is what's happening there, because of the interaction between water and trees that kind of dictate which way you have to shape the ball around the trees. If you don't have total command of your game, you will lose it at some point. And the part of my biggest takeaway about TPC Sawgrass can just get to it now. I think it is the modern blueprint for how you penalize wayward misses in today's game, and the key strategic technique it employs, which is the same one as at Mierfield Village. I know I take some flak for how much I talk about Memorial, but what it does is if you're offline, off the tee, it requires you to lay up. There are hazards in front of a lot of the greens where you cannot just chop something up into a bunker and have an easy up and down to save park. You cannot do that at TPC Sawgrass, and you can't do that at Mirefield Village. Like the fourth hole that we've been talking about. Yeah, if you hit a good T shot, you can make berdie. But if you're offline there's a hazard cutting in front of the green, you can't just dump something up into a bunker that bounces up, and you can't just send it over the back of the green either, because it's a really difficult up and down.

00:12:21
Speaker 4: That's the thing that happens is you can hack something up there, but you have to take the water out of play, so you should be long and exactly.

00:12:31
Speaker 3: That's exactly Mirefield Village, which is another course that really separates talent and the more I was reading about it, like Pete Die and Jack Nicholas collaborated very closely on Miarfield Village, which is a similar timeframe to when TPC Sawgrass was built. You look at a hole like eighteen. If you miss left, you're in the water. If you miss right, you can't just chop something up by the green because of the way that fairway slopes from right to left, could kick it into the water. Eleven another hole right, you can't chop something up by the green if you're offline. Nine is an example where you can't just hit something. It's a very difficult up and down. So I think that's particular technique. Yeah, sixteen, great example. I think that particular technique. Architects who are trying to build the venues of the future for pro golf should very strongly consider when laying out a golf course that tests the best golfers in the world.

00:13:21
Speaker 4: You know, what it is that you're kind of describing is building cross hazards that are say sixty seventy yards short of a green and up to it, Yeah, where you know you're not able to effectively push the ball up there, because that's you know, listen, that's been the modern recipe for golf is like get the ball as close to the green as you possibly can at all.

00:13:49
Speaker 3: Costs, especially because bunkers are really easy for these guys.

00:13:53
Speaker 4: So if you take away the ability if you're out of position to get the ball close to the green, it all a sudden presents, you know, different questions that were used to watching for pro golf.

00:14:06
Speaker 1: And I feel like that just as one of my takeaways thinking about this a lot this weekend was that the reputation of Sagrass obviously has evolved, but it's evolved for me in the sense of I used to think, like when guys just weren't good at playing there, like oh whatever, course is kind of gimmicky, like it's not like really, And now I've sort of evolved to like, man, if you don't have like the game to play at Sagrass, you're not a proper player, Like I don't respect you as much. I have a lot more respect for dudes who can bring it there than guys who are just kind of you know, sort of havoc on the regular tour stops and just are kind of revealed to be a little bit of I don't know frauds is the right word, but just like not as complete players, And I don't think that was true like in the nineties and the two thousands, and I definitely think that the reputation of it now is different.

00:14:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:14:55
Speaker 4: I think, like if you think about sagrass is that it requires a lot of restraint, It requires a lot of thought, and it requires sometimes I believe, I'm curious what you would think as someone who advises players on this. I think sometimes sawgrass challenges you.

00:15:16
Speaker 2: And forces you to deviate from your plan.

00:15:21
Speaker 3: More so than other places. I think it forces you to take your medicine much more than another golf court, like even ten, which.

00:15:30
Speaker 2: Such a hard starting call if you tee off on time.

00:15:33
Speaker 3: Ten played really hard this past week and seeing guys miss the fairway and have to reconcile, like, all right, I think my best play is laying this out to seven to have a seventy yard wedge in, which is not easy with a little bit of wind in firm greens. Yeah, I think sawgrass makes you take your medicine a little bit more and hit different shots again, which is sort of similar to deviating from your game plan. But you're gonna have to be able to work the ball both directions into Kevin point. Like a lot of the golfers who are not complete players out on the PGA Tour, they don't have to do that weekend and week out. So it's gonna tell you where your game stacks up. And if I'm sure, we'll talk about Scotti, Like Scotty's a little bit off right now. He can't just hit that go to fade over and over again and get away with it out at Sawgrass. So I think that that's one way it sort of it sort of makes.

00:16:20
Speaker 4: I want to explain why that happened a little bit out there versus you know, a regular PGA Tour stop and like listen the Gospels is hit one shot shape, that's the you know, the Gospel master your shot shape and hit that shot shape over and over again. I think where it presents issues at Zawgrass and you saw it on eighteen. I think it played out perfectly on eighteen with with Fits and Cameron Young in the final group. That fair way if you're going to hit driver on that hole, that fair way if you hit a fade, because the fairway goes right to left if you hit a fade, functionally that fairway is about five yards wide where you can hit the ball. And yeah, you can do that and just take your medicine and hit it into the right trees and you might make four. You might make five like Fitzad basically a toss up with where he was short of the green fifty to fifty proposition, I make four or five.

00:17:25
Speaker 2: But in that moment he needed a four. He needed a four.

00:17:30
Speaker 4: Especially after Cameron Young hit that t shot. If I'm fits, I'm thinking I need a four or three, all right? It Hitting the fade effectively assured him that he was going to make a four or five. It was very unlikely he was going to hit the fairway with the shot Chap hit off the t Cameron Young drew the ball. Now, someone would point out he drew the ball into the water yesterday, the day before and made a double. Okay, that's an inherent risk. But given the moment, he hit a draw off that tee and that made the fairway twenty yards wide.

00:18:05
Speaker 2: Let's just call it so He.

00:18:06
Speaker 4: Effectively basically quadrupled the sides of the fairway. And these are not scientific numbers before somebody goes and measures it out.

00:18:16
Speaker 2: But they made the effect.

00:18:17
Speaker 4: He made the effect of fairaway size so much larger because he hit the draw and then from his shot, I would say it was like a probably like eighty percent. He was going to make a four, maybe maybe seventy percent, he's going to make a four, twenty percent, he makes a three to ten percent. He makes a five from that position, and that's because he hit the shot shape that the hole required. But the every hole out there moves in a direction similar to eighteen, some more subtle. The other thing I love about it, and I've talked about this a lot over the years, is I love that every fairway looks different to the eye. There's not one set fairway width that they roll out hole after hole. It's not like, not like Pete Die said, Hey, we're gonna make every fairway thirty.

00:19:05
Speaker 2: Two yards wide.

00:19:07
Speaker 4: Because what happens then is that you in your eye as a golfer, see the fairway and you get really comfortable with the fairway and it feels like home. They're what I think is fascinating is like there are really wide fairways like eleven that are so wide and friendly, but then there are fairways like four that are super narrow, and you get up to the fourth fairway and you're like, whoa this is This is really narrow, and you see guys miss the fairway all day with irons.

00:19:37
Speaker 3: The other part of that andy that Sean Martin called out on the preview pod that I found to be very true, the winds change a lot in March, and the layout of that golf course. You could very well see four different wins over four days, and standing on the tee on fourteen, I think fourteen is the most intimidating. Eighteen's very intimidating, but fourteen is really a scary tea shot as well. You play that back into the wind. A lot of guys don't have that shot, because that's another one with trouble down the left, where if you can hit a draw into the wind and maybe flight something down a little bit, you're way better. That's another area where Cam Young stepped up and smashed a drive down the middle when he needed it. Other golfers are flaring stuff out right into the mounds. They don't have that shot. So I think it's the combination of the way the fairways look different different with trees obstructing the air space and some spots like eleven that's another one where there's a little bit of tree interference up on the left, and the changing wind directions and intensities all four days. You got to have every part of the game.

00:20:41
Speaker 1: It's the tournament better. And it's in March. Like I've always been like, oh, we should have it in May. Can be a firmer in May, but like if you get a week where you don't have rain, March has proven to be like it's a big time players only tournament at this point, there's no like faking it around.

00:20:58
Speaker 3: I think there's a good argument for it. I'm not familiar enough with how often it's storms in May, but given that that's at least what Sean had said on the preview pod, you get more storms in May if you're really increasing the chances of a potential rain, potential delay, I could get behind the March date. Actually, I think it. The golf course plays really well, and I didn't feel that way the last couple years. I've always, like you, Kevin, thought that it should go back to May the winner part of this, I think we've just entered an era where a lot of the top golfers are I'm not going to make too much of that, but I think the golf course plays excellently in March, and if the swirling winds is more of a factor in March, more unpredictable wins, I can absolutely get behind the March date.

00:21:38
Speaker 4: Now I think the winds are more of a factor in March. I think like the big thing that has held me back is the course conditioning. That said, it seems like there's a new philosophy around the players with this year where they're actually trying to present a challenge to players versus something that looks really good on TV. And I think if they just push more, you know, the overseateed fairways are never going to play the way you want them to. But they played a lot better this year than they did. I think, like you know, like anything, and I'm fascinating. Obviously DL three and Scott Sherman and their their firm are doing an overhaul after next year's tournament. I mean, the greens are going to get spicier, which is you know, I think the thing that holds back. Sawgrass right now is like the greens, don't you know, if you hit the green, it's relatively easy to two putt from pretty much everywhere. And you know when those when those greens were built, they had a lot of like I'm not going to say Augusta qualities, but they you know, where all of a sudden, two putts aren't guaranteed if you're fifty feet away. And I think that'll be another aspect of this championship that will be fast saying. I'm sure we'll get a round of a player complaints shortly.

00:23:03
Speaker 2: After that opens.

00:23:05
Speaker 4: Kevin, now that we've exhausted the course, what was what was one of your big takeaways?

00:23:11
Speaker 1: All right? So there's no player that I feel like I used to dismiss more than Mike in my own head anyway, than Matt Fitzpatrick. And I just used to think of look at him like, oh, it's this little numbers guys, kind of like this weakling and a nerd, I think, I think, as I think about it more now, I was kind of letting like my macho bullshit sort of affect you know, my approach shit what I thought about him, And you know, I remember years ago I was working. I was working for your Span, and I was working on a Phil Mickelson piece, and Fitzi was paired with Mickelson right after he'd won the USAM and I just could not wrap my head around him being like a serious player. He just looked like a little kid who was just bunting it around. And this was kind of, you know, the height of like the Rory sort of Brooks was coming up at this point, like the alpha era of like Brooks is just like going around talking about, aw, He's gonna like stuff everybody into a locker, and Fitzy looked exactly like the kind of guy who would get stuffed into a locker. I just couldn't do it. I was just like I was coming off of fifteen years of covering the NFL, and he just did not fit the mold of like what I thought a great athlete should look like. And the more time I spend around the game, the more I have really grown to appreciate him. I mean, I just love that he is the opposite of this mash it and prey approach. He has to be like strategic around the course and instead of like somebody you know, feeding him numbers and telling him whatever, get it. He's like obsessive about doing his own numbers because it's the only way he can sort of trust it. And like when he saw deficiencies that he had, like he got faster and he you know, he improved his swing speed. That's almost been like beat to death about you know, him doing the stack system or whatever. But you know, he gained like half a shot off the tee from when he first joined the PGA Tour now and right now, like he has slightly more like of strokes gained off the tee than Chris Gottrup does. Like obviously small sample size, it's only like twenty five rounds this year, but just like really impressive to me that he is figuring out a way to be a you know, a top twenty player for sure, maybe even top ten. And this obviously like I just think he's like so thoughtful and he's just really he's a classy guy. He's a good sport. I came away just from thinking, like I would love to see him win a second major. You know, he hasn't been bad at the Masters. He's never missed the cut there as a pro. He's only finished top ten one time, and I would I would kind of love to see FITZI like, get in the mix at Augusta. I just feel like he's a throwback to a different era when you had to you know, different guys could do it different ways and be competitive and even just like the crosshanded chipping, to me, is fascinating that he committed to that and has become like legitimately a good chipper with it, Like, you know, his numbers around the green are above average with it, and I just the only thing, honestly that's holding him back round now this year is putting hasn't been all that great, but the rest of it's been awesome.

00:26:05
Speaker 3: Kind of interesting, just on the cross handed chippings. Some coach I was talking to at Sawgrass was like, who's the only golfer that can cross hand chip and actually be good at it? And I was like, I think you're talking Matt Fitzpatrick and he was like yeah, And you know what, his swing coach always had him practice swinging cross handed growing up. So I think that's kind of an interesting angle of Fitzpatrick that the cross handed chipping tends to be a band aid and he's the only guy that's really made it a weapon. The other part of Fitzpatrick Kevin that I think is remarkable is that he was clearly one of the best golfers in the world in twenty twenty two when he won the US Open. He's dealt with some injuries since then and kind of went back down, and now he's back up to clearly a top twelve level player in the world. It would have been easy for him to fade out and kind of become one of those guys who's hot for a year, eighteen months, deals with some injury, then he's the twenty fifth best golfer in the world. He's all the way back up, which is super impressive. And I think also in the year, in the era where we rely so much on strokes gained that kind of overlooks things like the Ryder Cup where we don't really have good strokes gained data. Mat Fitzpatrick was unbelievable at the Ryder Cup at beth Page and they probably don't win that Ryder Cup without his performance. So really impressive last six seven months from Fitzpatrick getting back to the top of the world.

00:27:25
Speaker 4: I mean, if you think about fits his career has kind of been like, hey, fitz is a bad Ryder Cup player.

00:27:33
Speaker 2: He's a liability. He's changed that. Fitz is a short player.

00:27:38
Speaker 4: He only can play, you know, like Harbor Town was always like this is the place to you know, Matt Fitzpatrick's gonna shine. He's completely changed that to where he can compete everywhere. I think like one of the things with fitz and you know, I think this is just something that I will kind of hold with with all players in general. It is like it's also test to turning pro at a young age if you're super talented. Yeah, I think way too many players And I hate sounding like someone who says like, don't go to school. I think way too many players wait way too long to turn professional.

00:28:16
Speaker 2: And I just like if the if you.

00:28:18
Speaker 4: Are an uber, uber elite talent, I think you should there should be looking at the seasoning and and kind of experience and the things that that have happened with like Matt Fitzpatrick. Do you do you Kevin? I know Joseph probably is more honest. Do you have do you know how old Matt Fitzpatrick is? Did you look this up?

00:28:44
Speaker 1: Uh? Is he thirty two? Thirty three?

00:28:48
Speaker 2: Thirty one?

00:28:51
Speaker 4: He's he's been like a bona fide top thirty pro for ten years.

00:28:56
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:28:59
Speaker 4: I think like when you look at Akshay and he's twenty four and it's like, wow, look at like all the things he's done. I think like there's a conversation with Ludwig where like Ludwig's still kind of like learning the ropes and becoming a tour pro and he's twenty six, you know, versus like you even could go to Joaque Neman, like you would do these things where you're like, man, like this young guy who's twenty three just turned pro, and it's like, well, Joaque Nemon is still twenty two, you know. And I just think that more guys that really have it, you know. I think about like the experience that Blades Brown has gotten this year, you know, being after fifty four holes, having a legit chance to win a couple PGA tour events, And I just don't think you're going to get that in college. And I don't want to rip away the college experience from kids and say that you shouldn't do this, But I think there's a real professional advantage if you have a good solid foundation and head on your shoulders to turning pro at a young age and the value what it does to you. Because Matt Fitzpatrick's gone through like three metamorphoses and he's still right in the middle of his prime.

00:30:15
Speaker 3: Andy, I think your point at the end is the key point. If you have the head on your shoulder. I really think this is varies player to player because I think there are a lot of guys. Luke Clinton is finding out how hard professional golf is when he turned pro. Nick Dunlap has gone through the ringer since turning pro. And if you turn pro at twenty one and you're not fully polished, we really are seeing the best golf being played six years into that, right, twenty seven, twenty eight. If you burn out at twenty four, then I think a lot of guys would benefit from staying in school a little longer. But there's no doubt it's way more competitive. The jump between college golf and professional golf is enormous, and so I think it's massive right the jump to corn Fairy towards Big let alone the jump to the PGA Tour. So to your point, even you know another example that is Sedartion Yellow Maraju, Who's that wasn't even going to be one of my takeaways. But he turned pro at nineteen, been grinding through Canadian mini tours up through the corn Ferry Tour for two years and now he's only twenty four and he just finished top ten to the players. So yeah, I think I think it varies guy to guy, but I wouldn't I'd be a little cautious with certain guys that they probably would actually benefit from more structure and from staying in college a little longer. With nil, they're making some money, but the probably the fastest track to being good is turning pro early.

00:31:39
Speaker 1: Being interesting disbate for like Miles Russell, right, Like, obviously he's like a really really good am and it's kind of of that era where it's like, all right, well, you could go to college and make three four million dollars five million dollars there, and or you could turn pro and sort of try to, you know, have the benefit be make fifty million dollars by the time you're thirty, and it's like a tough, you know, decision, right, I don't know what the right call would be, whether if you really feel like a year of college would benefit you in some way, But obviously he looks like he's talented, enough to do it. But then you look like who's the best am right now it's Jackson Coyven, right, And so he benefited from going to college and probably is more prepared when he comes out on tour to be you know, to be pretty good. It's I agree with you, Joseph. I think it's a case by case thing. It's just based on like you know, one of my takeaways is we're going to talk with this is pod Geater, Like obviously he turned pro at a very young age, but this year is proving that, like it's a lot harder to figure out than just pound it and find it.

00:32:46
Speaker 2: Think it works well some courses though.

00:32:50
Speaker 3: Sure, So that's your that's your take Is that what you're takeaways, pod Geater. I'm interested in this one.

00:32:56
Speaker 1: So look, I it's you kind of mentioned and this when we were talking Genesis, Joseph that like it was a little bals beady impostery, uh, And I think like that's proving to sort of prove the case. Like that's the only tournament where pod Geter has really I mean he's missed five out of seven cuts and was like sixtieth at Pebble. I mean, it's just sort of the hype I think, and I would look, I'll point the finger back of myself, like I thought, oh my god, like this kid is ready to go, like he is. His bass speeds are so impressive, like he is going to be a stud. But he is just he's a below average shipper. You know, he's a horrendous potter right now. He lost more than three strokes around the greens at API, lost nearly two strokes at the Players, just you know, a quick like exit misscut. And I think he shot like in the high seventies both of his rounds. I just I think like it's gonna take a little bit a while for him to round out his game. Obviously a lot of changes, like let's not just miss like lost a bunch of weight, switched his club switch. I mean everyone was like at Genesis was like, oh man, how are you doing this, like with all these changes, like what a remarkable thing, Like this is benefiting you so much? And then he turns around and he's just been awful in all the other tournaments. You know, you're missing the cut at the AMEX. I think it sort of shows like there's a lot that's not going right in your game. That should be like a ground and pound easy sort of you know success for someone like him. But I just I feel like I got a little bit ahead of myself and thinking like this is the next young like stud. Yeah, he's only twenty one, so like there's a lot of time to figure it out. But you know that this is maybe in this like we're just a conversation we just talked about. You know, he'll figure out these things and probably be fine, you know, six months a year from now, and that doing it at the pro level is much more beneficial than like doing this in a you know, a pack ten golf tournament somewhere. I guess packed down't even exists, but like, you know, an SEC golf tournament somewhere, and he's going to get more experience on you know, DP World Tour courses and all that stuff. So it's I still am like bullish on pod Geter, but I just was a little bit shocked to see how bad it's been across the board other than Jenesis, I.

00:35:10
Speaker 4: Think, you know, I think one of the things that is I always struggle to kind of cross this with with pro golf is you can optimize two ways for consistency and I think like the best players of the world optimize for consistency, and we can weak out, like how could I play at the highest level every week? But there is a component to pro golf that really rewards, like flashing two to three weeks a year where everything comes together once in a while and you finish really high because you have some standout traits and pod Gater's ability to just frankly overpower some golf courses that don't have a lot of penalty. And this is you know, if people wanted to you know, why why the ball should go forty five fifty yards shorter off the te is so that you just can't hit driver on holes. And just know, if I end up in the rough, it's fine because I have a lob wedge and I and no rough can assess enough penalty to you know, diminish my thought of hitting driver because I'm going to get a lobledge. And that's like effectively, you know the way that that a lot of golf courses on tour have become where it's just you know, you saw it.

00:36:38
Speaker 2: It's not a lot of sawgrass.

00:36:39
Speaker 4: It's like it's hard to get anything but wedges in these guys hands. You know, it requires fourteen to be playing into the wind, and then you're starting to see some mid irons and it's like, whoa, look, what happens?

00:36:50
Speaker 1: You know, sixteen a tree that hangs over the sixth fairway.

00:36:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:36:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think, like for pop Eater, he's at this age where, yeah, I think he's going to pick off a couple events a year where he plays really well and we see him at the top of the board, and those will be events where hitting driver anywhere is okay.

00:37:16
Speaker 3: I agree, And the only part I push back on it all is the distinction between consistency and ups. Like I think sometimes just consistency is skill, and it's very difficult for a high speed player to be good at everything else. Rory is one of the few examples we have of somebody who has figured that out. Got her up. Kind of seems like he might be another example of somebody who has figured that out, But it's few and far between the guys that can be both really powerful off the tea and also a good iron player through the bag, and I think that's something pot Yeater is going to struggle with, especially with the size of the iron. Gapping like that requires a lot of precision can get Should I get to my second takeaway? I think this is a big one.

00:37:55
Speaker 4: I got one that ties off that, all right, go yeah?

00:38:00
Speaker 2: So I think Cameron Young.

00:38:03
Speaker 4: Has the game to potentially win three plus majors. I don't I doubt he gets there, frankly, like, I think it's it's extraordinarily hard to get there. But if you told me tomorrow today that in five years Cameron Young has four majors.

00:38:24
Speaker 2: I'd be like, Okay, I see it.

00:38:28
Speaker 4: What do you tell We were just talking about players with high speed and the challenge of becoming a well rounded player where you don't have huge holes in your bag. You know, Cameron Young from all intents, you know, you hear on the telcast like he struggled with wedges because he just is such a high spin player and a golf ball that really has low spin has helped him controls wedges more.

00:38:54
Speaker 2: He took.

00:38:55
Speaker 4: He went from being a bottom end, bottom of the barrel of potter to a top end putter on the PGA Tour. Extraordinary, extraordinary turnaround. But what you're seeing is a high speed player, exceptional iron player, extremely high speeds off the tee that has rounded into form at age twenty eight. Obviously he won the Players Huge Tournament. You know, we could. I don't know if either of you guys have the players should be a major on there on your takeaways, No, maybe it's not a player. Maybe maybe it's not a major. A lot of people seem to be pushing that is a major. You know.

00:39:35
Speaker 2: Brooks Koepka won his first major at twenty seven.

00:39:38
Speaker 4: Camery junks twenty eight, you know, And I don't think it's like an unrealistic comp in a way. To me, they kind of get it done in similar ways to when you know Brooks when he was twenty seven to twenty eight, he was like a mid one eighties guy, and that was a you know he was he was so long and I think we we forget maybe he wasn't mid one eight I think it was high one seventies at that time, high that time, and that was a speed demon. And if you look at cam now, he is one of those like sheer like overwhelming tee to green player at this point where he can really like separate himself tee to green from other guys, and it's it kind of reminds me a little bit of the way Brooks plays similar disposition on the golf course, and now that the putter is a weaping weapon, that's the way you know Brooks used to be is like, yeah he was. He was amazing Tee de Green, but it seemed like he just hold everyboddy needed a whole and I saw a lot of that with Cam uh this weekend.

00:40:43
Speaker 3: That wasn't the takeway I was about to go with, but one of mine was that this past weekend was the solidification of Cam Young as a top five player in the world. And I don't think there's any It's always been kind of speculated, like this guy has all the makings, but there was always that skept. There was always some skeptic for a good reason, that he'd make bogies from the middle of the fairway from ninety five yards because he'd hit a horrendous wedge and miss a six footer. And he doesn't do that anymore. He does a little bit of that sometimes with the irons in short game, but you can't overstate what a difference of a player he is with a great putter. When I was going back this morning in preparation for this podic looking back at twenty twenty two, his first year on tour. It's actually better than I remembered it being, and I remembered it being good. But he was two shots off winning two majors, one out of Southern Hills and then one out of Saint Andrew's. He also had three other runners up on the PGA Tour that year. In his first year on tour, coming off the corn Ferry Tour, like immediately was flashing all the trades, and he was a bad putter back then. So I don't think it's crazy at all to suggest that this year, I would say, outside of Rory and Scotti, Cam should be the third favorite at the Masters. I think he's already there, a totally complete player who has shown that he even with can get into the mix now that he has a putter, unless Roy or Scott he's on, I think he's a really really difficult golfer to beat right now.

00:42:10
Speaker 1: I kind of love that, like the key to his putting change was just basically like going back to like a conventional grip, Like that's part of it. I was just reading a little bit about this morning in anticipation of this, and that was he did like an interview with Smiley where he was sort of saying like, yeah, I tried like every putter grip under the sun, and I just had so much anxiety over all that He's like I was putting with a claw before I even really had like issues with putting, and it was fine, but it just wasn't good. And it was basically like his putting coach was basically like, hey, let's just maybe go back to simplify things his dad, Yeah, Dad, And that was like kind of what led to all of a sudden, like hey, maybe you're just putting free, you know, in a free state, like you were your kid again. And I sort of wish that Scotty had. You know, Scotty was always a really good putter, and you know he went through that spell in like twenty twenty three where he just couldn't make anything. As a part of me that like deep down wishes like, oh, i'd you just like stick with the blade, like it's so much better look and so much more fun. You're obviously a great potter all throughout the time you were a kid. And he figured it out. He you know, he did this all of a sudden, He turned himself into like a top ten putter, which is what's really made him great. But I just kind of love everybody's like, Oh, everyone's got to go to mout, everyone's got to go to this, like, you know, to do this thing to make give me a Putter, And I kind of love that. Cam just was like, oh man, let's just like free it up again. Let's just like go back to the basics. And that's what's kind of unlocked him in that sense.

00:43:35
Speaker 3: Just yeah, it sounds I was talking to his dad a little bit during Sawgrass what he said, and that's his coach. He basically said it was very small changes because Cam's techniques always been good and they didn't need to overhaul anything. But it just took a little time for those changes to work their way into Cam's game. And once he started, once he was able to start more Putts online with some minor setup changes, he could learn a lot more about where his misses were because he was starting Putts online. And it sounds like that kind of it wasn't anything drastic, no major overhaul. Technique's always been good, it just took a little time for that to set in. In a couple of small changes are now why he's a great putter and has just been able to build a lot of confidence. So pretty unbelievable turnaround though, to go from outside the top one hundred and twenty five as a putter on tour and now to be he was top ten last year, it's like fortieth this year, but I think he'll go up as the year progresses.

00:44:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's amazing and as you hit on he has done so he's beent, had so many chances at majors, and so many times he's probably just like kicking himself about this or that as a really bad putter. And I think like the way you rack up majors, the recipe is like being the hunt at a lot of majors. That's the recipe. And he's already done the hard part. And I think like this this tournament could give him just so much confidence in belief that you need to win the biggest tournaments in the world.

00:45:15
Speaker 1: I think he could be great fit for Birkedale just like that. I would you know, he's played well in Open Championships, Like there's some par fives that are gettable on the back there, Like he could really like you know, put the pedal down and play great golf there.

00:45:30
Speaker 3: Do you know how many top tens. Cam hasn't been major since getting on the PJ Tour in twenty twenty two, so four years of majors, eight six. The only players ahead of him are Scottie, Rory, Bryceon and Xander who all have multiple majors.

00:45:45
Speaker 4: Like that, that's the thing, that's that's the recipe there. I can't I'd be curious what player with Like it's probably Westy is there, but like, who are the players that the most top tens in major without wins? And I think like generally you'd look through them and you'd be like, putting is why they didn't win? And if Cam Young has ascended to a top forty putter, if we just say he's a top forty putter, that is he is going to win multiple majors.

00:46:22
Speaker 2: The way he hits the ball, it's just like.

00:46:24
Speaker 4: He there are a number of majors where you look through like the ball striking, it's like, oh my god, Cam Young is just overwhelming this golf course.

00:46:32
Speaker 2: But he's you know, a hundredth in putting.

00:46:35
Speaker 3: All due respect to Brian Harmon, Like Cam Young should have won Liverpool. He was destroying the field. Tita Green through three days. It might have been like dead last in strokes, skin putting of anybody who made the cut, and he was still in the final group, but he couldn't make anything. He probably should have won that major.

00:46:51
Speaker 4: Joseph, I took your your, your, your next thing.

00:46:57
Speaker 1: What do you got? Well?

00:46:58
Speaker 3: My last one to me is actually the most important one, even more so than Cam Young. Despite my admiration for his game, this is the first time that I have considered that the best of Scottie Scheffler might be behind us. And I don't I'm not saying that. Wow, I'm not saying that that's the most likely outcome, but this is the most it's felt like a distinct possibility that Scotty will not be the dominant player over the next two to three years. Wow, that I've ever felt what.

00:47:28
Speaker 2: We some of the reasons.

00:47:30
Speaker 1: You go ahead, because I'm going to throw cold water all over this, but I want to hear your argument first.

00:47:34
Speaker 3: Okay, very small sample size, but his last three starts, we're seeing things in his ball striking that we have not seen in years. He's losing strokes between the genesis, the API and the players. He's losing strokes with his irons, which is normally his superpower, losing intensive a stroke around those three same tournaments. Last year was gaining over two shots. It's like almost a three shots with his irons, again a small sample, and off the tea that subset of tournaments, he was gaining more than three strokes off the tea last year, this year just over one. Still not terrible, but we are seeing uncharacteristically bad swings from Scotty. And Brandal Chamblie on Live from did a little breakdown of Scotty's swing. He's like, this swing is unrecognizable compared to last year. Like that it's a foot and a half shorter, he was saying, and the club face is wide open as he was struggling on the range. Doesn't mean that Scotty's for sure going to be bad, or be just a guy, or be the sixth best player in the world. But I do think it's very reasonable going into the Masters to suggest that like this is not nearly as dominant of a player as we've seen in a while.

00:48:49
Speaker 1: I think that Scotty is not like I think that the modern media environment is not built for like if like why I try to figure out how to phrase this exactly. I'm working on sort of a way to say this as an essay, but I'm trying to say it out loud. If Tiger had lived through the modern media world, I think he would have like we would have all gone crazy because the sort of volatility of like week to week, like what's wrong with you? Man? Like why aren't you winning every time? Like, what's wrong with you? Our expectations have become so absurd in like looking for the next great player to be so dominant to where they are essentially like never out of the top five is unreasonable. Like I get this is what used to happen with Tiger, but in a world where the spotlight was it was very different where we used to break down his swing every single time on the range, be like what's going on with Tiger? Like this is he's changing this thing and this thing and this thing. Why isn't it this is you know, the Brandles of the world kind of became famous for doing this, essentially saying man like I wouldn't do this. I think Tiger's Scotty is working on something probably that none of us really know about, like what's going on? Like he could be sort of fighting off some injury or he could be fighting through like, hey, I'm going through a little bit of a change, Like I think Scotty will be absolutely even better going forward, but I don't I think that, Like it was a good example of he was asked, you know what, do you think that this season has been like sort of a struggle for you so far? And he was basically, like, your expectations for me week to week are so much different than my own expectations. Scotty does not like buy into this big picture arc stuff of like are you going to be one of the great players of all time? Are you wanna be the most dominant player of all time? He is truly like and he has kind of divorced himself from that in order to stay sane, like, Yeah, I'm just going like day to day, like week to week. I'll figure this out. I'll do some maintenance. I think we're talking legitimately, and I have some sort of reporting to back this up about maybe the smartest like golf mind that we've ever seen, like on par with Tiger even even greater. And I think like with some basic maintenance, he's going to come right back to being like what he was, Like I it's a little bit of a frustration I think for a lot of these players, and they can never truly speak it out loud, but this like we have to change drivers in this particular to tailor made every single year, Like every single year, we got to put a new friggin driver into play. And Scotty is such a sort of a particular person about what he likes and what he doesn't like. He's been playing the same Irons essentially for I think like seven or eight years. That the fact that he has to kind of put a new driver twenty three. Did he switch to the Irons in twenty three?

00:51:36
Speaker 4: I finally got I always thought as Iron sounded bad early in his career, and I got confirmation that I was right.

00:51:43
Speaker 1: Okay, but it was a long time before, like a long time before he switched Irons. And you know, he's still wearing Tigerwood shoes that he's basically like, you know, obsessed with for all this time. Like he is a very particular person, and I think part of what bugs him is like, all right, I have to change this stuff, like that's it's his choice. He could basically be like an equipment free agent and not have to do this and play whatever driver he wanted to do forever. But I really believe that, like Scotty is so much has such a better perspective than all of us, include myself, and this in like not giving a shit about the big picture stuff and basically being like, yeah, I'm just going to figure this out in this round. And does he get ornery? Does he get sort of like snippy at the media, Like yes, And that's kind of another interesting guy. He's like constantly in conflict and trying to sort of be like, yeah, none of this matters, like I really and also being like, well, I'm really annoyed that they asked me this question because I'm way smart. It's it's the Matt Damon thing, a good tole hunting. Do you know how easy this is for me? Do you know how freaking easy this is for me to do? And I get that a lot of that energy from him, and I find it. I find him even more interesting this year than I did like previous years, because he's sort of struggling with that a little bit.

00:52:55
Speaker 2: I A.

00:52:57
Speaker 4: I'm fascinated by this subject because I think golf is you almost never see stuff coming with golf. You never see somebody putting it all together like I always thought, you know, I when I started frieda Egg, I covered a lot of amateur golf and a lot of college golf early on because I had no access, and this overlapped with Scotty Shuffler's time in college golf. And I always thought Scotty was a really nice player. And I remember having conversations with with you know, agents out there, and I was like, you know, if you look at Scotty when it's a big tournament, he's always He's always there, and that's why I like about him. I never envisioned this right, and I don't think anybody did, and nobody envisioned him becoming just this transcendently great player. I think the other thing us and golfers alike never see is how short and how quick.

00:54:05
Speaker 2: It you can lose it. And that's my question.

00:54:10
Speaker 4: I was having a conversation with a former number one player in the world this week at a at a thing, and I'll leave names out of it, but we were talking about, you know, longevity and player what Tom Layman. It could have been Tom Layman, but we were talking about longevity and different things, and I brought up the point of like, you know, nobody, nobody knows when it's going to just change and you're going to lose something, and you know, you when you go searching for something, you lose it. And this player remarked, he goes, you know, if you would have told me after this tournament that it was basically all over, I would have told you were crazy, you were insane. But all of a sudden, it was never the It never quite was the same, and I never got it back. And I think that's like just an important thing to remember about golf, is like the difference between outlandishly the best player in the world and being number ten is so fractional, and it could be just like literally, and I think a lot of people's like body work has changed this where the people swing more consistently than ever, but it could be just like I lost the ability to turn one degree more and that has changed my swing.

00:55:37
Speaker 2: You know, X, Y and Z reasons why, or you know, it could be something in your head.

00:55:44
Speaker 4: But anyways, my my thing with like everybody's prognosticating that like this is going to go on forever, but the history of golf tells us it never does, and that it is it is exceptionally hard to put together. Like if you look at Tiger's career, there were periods of two to three year dominance, lulls two to three year dominance, and like we've had this three year run with Scotty. We have never seen somebody just like be the best for five straight years. Even Tiger had adversaries, they had, he had VJ. VJ was better than him for a period of time, David Duval was better than him for a period of time. Nobody has been better than Scotty.

00:56:36
Speaker 2: For three years.

00:56:39
Speaker 1: I think it's a great point. And I do think that we tend to project just the best for someone. I mean, I remember you could have told me when Jordan Speith turn't made the turn at you know, Augusta in twenty sixteen, this guy's gonna win four Masters, Like this is unbelievable. Like he's going to be the first person to win back to back since Tiger, Like he's always going to be suited for this course. This is like a you know, an unbelievably great player for the next decade. And obviously that didn't play out that way. And Justin Thomas probably like there was moments at Aaron Hills when I remember thinking like, oh my gosh, like this is like he and Speith are going to be like trading majors for the next decade. And obviously that did not play out that way. And so I think, get it right there is the windows in golf are so much shorter than we actually realized. Arm Palmer never won another major after he was thirty three. Uh, And I just think like maybe we ought to keep that in perspective. But to just back to my other point, like I think Scotty's mind is what makes him really great. I don't think it's like you talk to players and they'll say, you know what, like he doesn't have really any shots that I don't have, And that's kind of like encouraging but also like dispiriting. It's just like he's so much martyr about missing in the right places and never making really stupid mistakes. Do you know how many double bogies Scotti Scheffler has made in the Masters in his career?

00:58:10
Speaker 4: Four He had the four putt on the one year, two two, and one of them was the four.

00:58:16
Speaker 1: Putt, one of them was the fore putt that didn't matter at all. How freaking good does that? You have to be to play five years of the Masters and make two really only one double bogie that ever mattered on ten I believe this last year. So it's kind of like shocking that, Like he is so smart about thinking his way around. I think like we could go into Augusta and he could literally win by three four shots and no one would be like, no one would think at all about this like brief period of struggles and be like oh yeah, like it just kind of maintenance, Like he figured it out. It was grip was the tenth of the degree off and now he's fine. And so I just am not ready to kind of say like this has any larger meaning yet. So time we can timestamp that too, where I might look stupid.

00:59:01
Speaker 4: In before we get to that, Before Joseph, you're about to rebut not a.

00:59:05
Speaker 3: Big rebuttal to go ahead, hold.

00:59:07
Speaker 2: On before we get to that.

00:59:09
Speaker 4: If you're going to the Masters, you might want to invest in your belt.

00:59:14
Speaker 2: We partner with mob Jack.

00:59:17
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01:00:37
Speaker 3: That's all I was gonna say. It's just the belt. No, I Kevin, I agree with ninety percent of what you said, and like the Tiger, the media coverage, like Scotty takes a bigger view great he should. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. I totally agree that Scotty's a really smart player and that's a huge part of his greatness, and that's not going anywhere his frustrations with media. I empathize with a lot of that. They're asking about bad swings when he goes through one bad week, Like I totally understand why that can be frustrating. All I'm saying is, over the past three years, it has never looked like, hey, twelve months from now, Scotty Scheffler may not be the best player in the world. I've never felt that way. I've always felt like, you know what, a year from now, it's still going to be Scotty. This is the first time we've seen a few instances of back to back cracks in the foundation. To Andy's point, could be a little thing here, a little thing there where. If you told me that a year from now, Rory McElroy's the number one player in the world, I would believe it. Or honestly, Cameron Young, I would believe it. John Rahm, I'd believe it. I have never felt that way until now, just seeing consistent shots that are way off. I mean we're talking he lost two and almost three shots on his approach at bay Hill. Like that's way different than anything we've seen from Scotty. And it's not just one week like now, it is a couple weeks together. So again, yeah, he could win the Masters by five and it wouldn't shock me. But it's the first time I felt like, you know what, a year from now, this might not be the number one player.

01:02:09
Speaker 1: It's the first time I felt like this about the full swing, Like I mean he was such a bad putter. Yeah in twenty three, I mean he's almost won the Memorial where he was losing. I think he lost like four or five strokes. Lease, it was that was showing you like, Okay, like this person's really and I think we never think about like putting always can come and go. Right, Oh I have a good putting week, you know I'm gonna win. It's usually the consistent thing is like the thing that I do most. The thing where I think I'm a little bit just kind of skeptical of is where I saw a couple of people were saying, like, you know, this is this is always going to happen with you have that many different movements and that much like he's been doing this kind of exact swing since he was twelve years old. Like there's no like magic, It's not to me. It's not like Speeth in twenty fifteen, where look, the putting was carrying such a big burden of that and he became a better iron player. But like obviously body went through some physical changes where he just couldn't swing the same way, and now he's injury and we've just kind of been lost in the wilderness. Like Scott, he's the same person that he's been since he turned pro as like a iron player. It's just he's not going to go.

01:03:13
Speaker 3: He's not this year though, He's not.

01:03:15
Speaker 1: But look, but like we're talking about such a small sample size. Also the fact he's about to have another kid, Like it's literally like his wife is like pregnant, right, there's about to have another kid before the Masters, Like it's just all kind of.

01:03:28
Speaker 4: This is I think there's a part of what makes golf fickle, and this is the whole why I like I I'm I think like everybody is like this is never.

01:03:41
Speaker 2: Going to end, but things like this end it this, you know.

01:03:45
Speaker 4: The difference between golf and other sports is like, okay, Like if I'm a NBA player, I have regimented practice that like I am going to the gym at this time, I'm expected there by the team and they set up a program for me that I do this and then I leave and I'm done for the day.

01:04:06
Speaker 2: Golf is different.

01:04:08
Speaker 4: You are on your own and like little things like having another kid can fundamentally change careers, I believe. I think like I think Hunter Mayhon, I can't remember if you said this, but like Hunter Mayhon's career pre impost kids was like wildly different.

01:04:25
Speaker 1: Sure, Grey mcdala's was. I mean, like, you know, Jeff Ogley, I think like had kids and it's gotta changed things. Like I've remember I think remember talking to Gmac about this at some point and be like, you know, it's just he was saying, it's so much harder to like think about golf being the end all be all when you have kids that you have to get home to, and it's so much easier to duck out of that last twenty minutes of practice when you have to like rarely want to go home and help your wife with you know, the kids, because it just gets going to make your marriage that much more solid. And so I don't doubt that those things are a factor. I just feel like I get why we This is our jobs, right, like we analys like we analyze things. It's Brandle's job to sit there and tell you, like, his swing looks way different, looks shorter. I just feel like it's it's such a function of the modern media environment where we have to find shit to talk about. And I don't know that I one hundred percent feel like this is a trend yet for Scotty.

01:05:28
Speaker 4: Can we talk about how wild it would be if if Rory ended up overtaking Scottie again and he has like a couple of year run where it's like Rory's the best player in the world and just like how many times like where he started and he over it takes Tiger as like the guy, and then you think about all the people in between that you know, whether it's Speak, whether it's DJ, whether it's Jason Day, whether it's you know, and that is Scheffler, whereas the rom like all these players that come like if that somehow happens, and I don't know if it will. It's just you're talking about like just an insane career of us trying to place people as like these, this is the greatest player in the world, and it's like, well, when we zoom out on you know, ten years, and I don't know if that'll happen. But you know, Brooks obviously in there too.

01:06:25
Speaker 3: When you were saying, like Tiger two to three year windows, we've never seen anyone. The one name who has done it year in and year out for fifteen twenty years is Rory And that's part of where I'm coming from there might be a downturn with Scotty is that almost every player has that downturn, like Rory's the only one who has it. Rom looked very.

01:06:46
Speaker 2: Still downturns though he had valleys, yeah.

01:06:49
Speaker 3: But they weren't. They never got super low.

01:06:52
Speaker 1: You never fell outside like the top twenty. But I think he felt like fourteen in the world at some point, which is unthinkable now, Like briefly sure.

01:06:58
Speaker 4: Well whistling straight ryder Cup, I think he went down to like fifteen or sixteen.

01:07:04
Speaker 3: Okay, sure.

01:07:05
Speaker 4: I always tracked this one stat that him and justin Rose hadn't been outside the top fifteen in the world to for like an insane period of time.

01:07:13
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean Phil had a run like that, And I think part of the the correlation between the two is like managed to stay you know, injury free for the most part. Like that was the thing that's like everybody was like, oh, man, Tiger should have won thirty majors, like, you know, he if he hadn't gotten injured. Well, you know, so much of what Tiger was doing was kind of going to injure him at some point, whether it was the sort of military training or that was like running thirty miles a week or whatever, like Tiger. If Tiger had taken sort of a longer view, maybe he would have stayed less injured. But you could also say, like part of the reason he was so great as he was pushing himself like to such a ridiculous degree that no one else was, and that allowed him to sort of be the best player. For the stretches he was be so much better. I just think like as long as the back thing. Me think about this, it's like it's been a long time since Rory had any kind of back issues whatsoever, and part of that is just like staying really fit in the gym. It's funny to think back to like twenty fourteen, when for fifteen when Brandl was like making fun of him or saying he was getting too bulky or two whatever. And yet we've gone a whole ten year stretch with Rory having basically no real serious injuries. Like obviously Rory knew what he was doing in the fitness routine, that he was choosing.

01:08:28
Speaker 3: Big thing the monitor out of this week right the backspasm. So I don't know that that's going to linger, but it is something that's another thing that opens the door for a potential new world number one. So and that's not to say.

01:08:39
Speaker 2: That Scotty Man is that Cameron Young music.

01:08:42
Speaker 3: It could be. It's not crazy. It's not crazy to suggest that Cameron Young could get the world number one.

01:08:46
Speaker 4: It's not I just said I would be surprised if he won four majors.

01:08:50
Speaker 1: So you know what I'll see, We'll say in all this the Rory like Grand Slam thing being off the table to me makes the masters like even more interest, right, it's so much so wide open. John Ram just won on live for the first time. You know and was sort of see if you're timing like a year and seem to like express a huge sense of relief at that Bryson has figured out Augusta a little bit like Sanders a little bit better, rounding into form. There's a lot of people who could win the Masters and could be like a great storyline for it. I just I'm excited to go there without like knowing that, like, oh, these are gonna be the three stories. There's like ten different storylines that could play out at Augusta. It wouldn't surprise.

01:09:33
Speaker 4: You if Tiger doesn't play Also, that opens up like there's no oxygen sucking story.

01:09:41
Speaker 1: I look, if you are going to the Masters this year for the one time in your life and you are desperate to see Tiger Woods, I hope that happens for you. From my perspective, I'm kind of feel like that that narrative is over, Like I'm tired of writing the what a gritty sort of effort this was to make the cut? The shoot seventy one, seventy three to make the cut. I just I feel I've written that story probably eight times already, in various across various majors, and so I for your sake, if you want to see that it it's been your dream to watch Tiger Woods play the Masters. Great, I just don't. He has no chance of contending, winning market, time stamp at whatever. Make me look like a fool, No, it is just he is. He has said he would never be a ceremonial golfer. This will be a ceremonial like just kind of figured it out kind of effort, and he probably won't play again for the rest of the year. So we've reached that point that Tiger is where he said he would never be, which is that he's just playing to kind of like get reps and tee it up. I just I don't need it. I think there's so many more interesting, other interesting storylines to the Masters that don't eat Tiger, like holding court and having this you know, basically like it just doesn't move the needle for me anymore the way it once did. And that's okay, that's part of the evolution of sports.

01:10:57
Speaker 3: Kevin. I think you can time stamp it too. I think the chance that Tiger makes the cut are unbelievably low, and I do not care that he has shown up in past years and been able to turn it on.

01:11:07
Speaker 1: There in the streak on the line right if he plays the thing.

01:11:14
Speaker 4: With Tiger And for me, it's the last record he can break, is this made cut streak at the because he's tied right now with Gary Player for most consecutive made cuts is either twenty one or twenty four. He is tied with Gary Player. This is the last record that I think we will see Tiger Woods break in our lives. And in that point, like, I don't know if this year is the year to try and do it coming off the Achilles, but like, yeah, I can't do the Friday like watching him like limp around and it's amazing to watch though. It's amazing to watch him make the cut with like nothing in the tank and that is like, oh, he can't play the rest of the weekend.

01:12:05
Speaker 2: But anyways, do you have one left? Kevin?

01:12:10
Speaker 1: I just kind of thought this is a minor one and I'm not ready to sort of like shout it from the rooftops. But I was impressed to see Brooks kind of slowly rounding in it for him. I would love to see Brooks like win another US Open just basically be like dude, like this is my shit. Right here. This is where I play golf, and I feel like the first this was the first sign to me that the trend line was like going to like maybe maybe Brooks is like coming back slowly, like potted better. You know, I think he's like finished sixteenth in a hard golf course. The harder it gets, the more you have to kind of like play smart, play safe. The better Brooks is. He hasn't been relevant for you know, eighteen months. I think like I was just encouraged by it. I just I like Brooks. I think it's fun when he is, you know, in the mix. And so I don't know that I'm ready to be like Brooks is coming back. You know, he's getting older. The injuries are obviously been a factor, but man, like how great would Brooks? Played pretty darn well at Augusta too over some stretches, Like I think he's got another major in him somewhere, and he's probably only got a three four year window left to do it. I don't think that body's going to hold up like into his forties. So this is like if we're headed back that way, this might be the first sign where I was like, yes, this this could still be a thing.

01:13:38
Speaker 4: It's it always happens when he wins majors, is there's usually an indicator of form.

01:13:44
Speaker 2: And you know he's playing the vels bar this week.

01:13:49
Speaker 4: He's got probably Texas, one of two starts in Texas. I think he's played well at San Antonio before. I mean the other fascinating thing is he's always played well at the Masters, hasn't gotten it done at the Masters ever? You know, Tiger Alfad Brooks at the Masters, he.

01:14:09
Speaker 1: Did, but you know what, if you go back and watch that twenty nineteen Masters, he hit such good putts down the stretch on like seventeen eighteen and just barely missed them. I mean, he that could have been a sort of narrative killer real quick if Brooks had just dripped in one of those putts. Like he came back from the dumping the water the water the ball in the water on twelve and actually made a real run. He was the only guy who didn't just like completely shrink from it after they dumped it in the water.

01:14:39
Speaker 4: My last thing, which is is not as fun as talking about it, has Scottie Scheffler lost a step is Brian roll App, the new CEO of the PGA Tour did a big press conference. It was a big song and dance. They had all the partners there, all the whole PGA Tour board was the there they assembled us media into you know, Grand Hall. It was But I thought like complete new era at the PGA Tour in terms of leadership. I think there are a lot of questions around how long it's going to take the players to get on board with this. You know that I think they wanted to do twenty seven for a big rollout the you know the big changes he had you know, six points of emphasis.

01:15:29
Speaker 2: Uh and we we've covered those pretty well. I can.

01:15:33
Speaker 4: I could go into the six points of emphasis, but they you know, the biggest thing here is that they have a real adult in the room. And I think like that is is was a big takeaway for me coming out of of of the players was this guy is is going to transform pro golf. I think that we are going to be talking in five years of a drama addically different format than what.

01:16:03
Speaker 2: We have right now.

01:16:04
Speaker 4: So the six themes were late January, start early September, finish twenty one to twenty six events and how those would be made up would be sixteen signature events, the players a postseason, and then the majors. Then they would have like a second track of tour events that are a lower tier, more consistent fields, which with one hundred and twenty players in a cut. So all those events, those signature events would be one hundred and twenty players with a cut, a big open network, you know, open, big with a network, like a primetime event, So it'd be a big opening event on the West Coast with a primetime finish. Number four is where we play major metro markets they want to re establish, like the New York's, the Chicago's of the world, the Philadelphia's that they aren't playing in currently. And then you know he said scarcity is the fifth one wasn't about It wasn't about like less. It was making every event matter more. And that's really I think, like a strict relegation and promotion schedule where every event has like a gravity and context to it, where the playoffs and all that makes sense. And then the sixth, the final one was exploring ways to enhance the postseason with match play. But there was a lot in this press conference that I took away feeling positive about. There's also a lot of undertones on the PGA tour that make you probably feel uneasy. A lot of people and groups and independent parties that are trying to lay land minds for SSG and Brian roll up to overhaul the tour.

01:17:57
Speaker 1: I think you've mentioned upfront, like in the room, there's something about like just someone who projects confidence standing at a podium, like it's the whole kind of secret sauce of politics, right is like do they look the part? And Brian Rolapp, I don't know if he looks the part, but he certainly speaks the part like he was really kind of came away from that room being like, wow, like this guy isn't afraid to just basically answer questions off the cuff, like he knows what he's talking about. He's not afraid to sort of basically it's not afraid to make a mistake in any of this. It's just like, yeah, like we'll figure it out, Like, well, we'll make the changes that make the tour the best, and if for not making enough changes, if people aren't a little bit frustrated, then we're not pushing hard enough. And I just thought that was kind of really I just came away from thinking like, yeah, they picked the right person for the job, Like this is the reason that he took this job, is it presented the opportunity to remake an entire sport. He's probably never going to get that in the NFL. I think E's going to hang on for a long long time. This idea that like roll App was the commissioner in waiting, I think it's a little bit presumptuous, Like, you know, there's no indication that all the owners would get together and pick Brian Rolapp to be the next commissioner when get All finally does hanging up. So he saw this opportunity to basically, like you know, take this whole sport in a new direction and jumped on it. And I think it's so far it's looking like it was the right call to have him be the guy.

01:19:25
Speaker 3: Well, just to Kevin's point, I think it's very clearly, seemingly so far the right person for the job. And Andy, as you alluded to, whether or not he can enact all the changes he wants to enact remains to be seen with some of the fight that he will see from some of the board members potentially. But the other part I just stress is this tour it doesn't. It's not going to look drastically different than the tour that exists today. And I think some of the uproar of playing opportunities and like the tour has changed so much is way overstated. Like we're probably going to be looking at a tour that looks pretty simp similar to what exists now, but just stripped out of some of the extraneous events, restoring a cut line which I think almost everybody can celebrate, and maybe a postseason that actually matters. So the scarcity, to me, has never meant fewer events. It has always meant sure, more meaningful events, but also wishing for the golf season a little bit more between September and January, potentially, like the scarcity of the season itself, not the scarcity of the number of events. So everything I heard I was really encouraged by.

01:20:34
Speaker 2: Yeah.

01:20:34
Speaker 4: I like some of his anecdotes, Like my favorite one was like where he talked about if there isn't uproar with my ideas, I feel like I haven't taken it far enough, Like if there isn't resistance to the ideas, we haven't taken it far far enough. You know the brief you know goals to make the PGA Tour better. You know, Like I just I found him to be a really good.

01:21:06
Speaker 2: You know, he might not have like he's he's not like.

01:21:10
Speaker 4: Got this like grandeur appearance when he's up there, but his presence and the ability to just answer every question was to me like super like he was not skating around things. I thought he showed some humility in his leadership with like said something he said, know what you know, uh, and know what you don't know, and I, uh, you know, listen, like the the players need to start thinking about ownership more and and that's where they need, you know, to understand that this is you know, their tournaments are a small part of what the PGA Tour can do as a whole, you know, and I'll be curious to see if it gets there. It's something obviously from the week that you know, at the tournament kind of swept.

01:21:57
Speaker 2: Under the rug. But the huge part of this week.

01:22:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was kind of most interested in the him bringing up the sort of premier league model, like hey, like if you don't you know, make the cut, you're gonna get sent down to the lower tier where you have to fight your way back and that's I think something that you know, the tour was set up for a long time to sort of protect the people, like it was hard to get sent down, you know, to lose your card if you had it, Like you were given way more opportunities than there was a real like fight scratch claw at the bottom for people. And now it's like, yeah, like if you're kind of a seat failer here, it really doesn't matter what you've done in the past. There'll be opportunities for you to play well and to get back to this level, but you're not going to be protected in the same way that you once were. And I think that's such a true Like, you know, he talked about the Premier League model, but that's very much an NFL model, Like there is no you know, sort of golden parachute for you. You've made a couple of Pro bowls like great, like you might be out of a job next year, and I think that's a good thing for a healthy golf world.

01:23:10
Speaker 3: And honestly, respectfully, if you're not in the top one twenty, if that's what they move it to, you don't deserve to right now. With the top fifty, it's a little tight if you can't make the top one twenty, then I don't think you have a whole lot to complain about. When you look at guys seasons where they finish one nineteen one to twenty.

01:23:27
Speaker 4: Well it's top ninety, I believe, so thirty up, thirty down. But like top ninety, come on, you can't make a top ninety player in the world. Find a new slant.

01:23:38
Speaker 1: Every other sport works that way, right, Like I remember Andre Agassi, who I was a big fan of. You know, he had to go down and play challenge to her matches to try to sort of grind his way back up after like winning the French Open, you know, way back before, and then he became like a much better player overall as a result. Like they'll be stories like that. Guys who have success lose it and everyone's like, boy, I'd sure like to the you know ex player in this tournament. Well, you know, your opportunities are going to be there if the player plays well like you, the John Deer's not going away, It's just going to be a better springboard to like get you back to you know, where you know you want to be.

01:24:14
Speaker 4: If you play well, all right, well there will be a lot more on that.

01:24:20
Speaker 2: Just you got one more.

01:24:21
Speaker 3: Thing real quick thirty seconds. Andy earlier, when were talking about Cam Young, you said you'd be curious who had the most top tens without a win in the Major. Just pulled it for you. You have any guesses in the twenty first century the names of double digit top tens but not a win in a major, Just just grabbed it. Westy Wessi's number one at nineteen, Monty. This is only looking at two thousand, Okay.

01:24:45
Speaker 2: Two thousands on.

01:24:49
Speaker 3: Let's think I can give them to you if you want them.

01:24:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, just give them to meet.

01:24:53
Speaker 3: Wessie number one, stricker number two at thirteen. Fowler also had thirteen, and then we got Matt Kuchure twelve, Paul Casey twelve, and Tony Fen now eleven. So those are the six, the six guys.

01:25:06
Speaker 1: There's Tony Fen cooked like speaking of for my Tony Fen.

01:25:12
Speaker 4: Joseph Joseph, PJ and Brendan are so hard on Tony final and I like, just there, he's one of the best players without a major right there.

01:25:24
Speaker 3: Just told you you should be better now is the take. He hasn't done anything in two years, and that's disappointing.

01:25:30
Speaker 2: He's got like seventy five kids.

01:25:33
Speaker 1: Well, we did just talk about how that was. You think at some point there would be like no more diminishing your turns, Like you just add another kid to the mix, Like what what does that have to do with it? Like you've already dealt with eight kids?

01:25:45
Speaker 2: All right, thank you guys for coming on.

01:25:48
Speaker 4: Discussing that was super fun, Lots lots of talk about for the players.

01:25:53
Speaker 2: I was happy not nobody made the claim that it's a major. They might think about it.

01:25:59
Speaker 1: I don't need this argument anymore. I find I'm like annoyed in general at the PJ tour marketing for like rebooting it. It was so dead. It was like it was like when a movie franchise is like, ah, Scream seven is the last of the franchise, and then like five years goes by and then it's like, oh, we're putting out Scream eight. That was how I felt about the major argument. It's like, no, like we were already done, this is wrapped up. No one was putting this argument forth, and all of a sudden you got brand will being like, oh, it's even better than all the other majors.

01:26:28
Speaker 2: I said in my book cameranyuks to major champion.

01:26:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the only case I have for it.

01:26:34
Speaker 4: Well, we could put Brandal's major champions and then ever the rest of society's major champions. It was a category all right, Thank you big thanks to PJ Clark.

01:26:44
Speaker 2: He's been on a run here.

01:26:46
Speaker 4: He played he played Sagress Monday after Hurdie Rinston on seventeen, but also got Cooke and he was was even far through two.

01:26:56
Speaker 2: He was he was feeling the wind at his back.

01:26:58
Speaker 4: He fired a very respect full score for Pjuh.

01:27:03
Speaker 1: He don't want to say what it was.

01:27:05
Speaker 2: He was quite smitten, Okay, I don't want to. I don't want to do. You know, I think he'd probably be fine with me sharing the score, but I'm just gonna I'm just gonna hold off.

01:27:17
Speaker 1: You also got some content coming where he gets new clubs, so like down the road. So think about how much better he'll play when that happens too.

01:27:24
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.

01:27:27
Speaker 4: As a revider, our books are back in stock, they're shipping out. I got to get a restock. Personally, I've given too many of them away. Like people come to my house, I'm like, here you go.

01:27:37
Speaker 3: You know.

01:27:39
Speaker 4: So, but uh, I gotta get a big restock for for the egg quarters here, but check those out at pro shop dot Thefrida egg dot com. I think we have Masters Burge coming soon.

01:27:50
Speaker 2: I don't know what the.

01:27:51
Speaker 4: Date is around that, but as always, that's a great way to support what we do here. Thanks to you guys for coming on and we'll talk next week.