275 | CCPT Purism (New Series): How Rogers Broke the Rules—And Changed Child-Centered Play Therapy Forever

0
00:00:00,439 --> 00:00:04,349
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

1
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,189
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

2
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:08,680
Hi,

3
00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:09,859
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

4
00:00:09,869 --> 00:00:10,560
The Kid Counselor.

5
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,640
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

6
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,949
a master class in child-centered play therapy

7
00:00:14,949 --> 00:00:17,360
and practical support and application for your

8
00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,030
work with children and their families.

9
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:20,469
In today's episode,

10
00:00:20,620 --> 00:00:22,709
we are starting a brand new series.

11
00:00:23,319 --> 00:00:24,540
Very excited about it,

12
00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:26,920
CCPT Purism.

13
00:00:28,049 --> 00:00:29,389
And I'll explain

14
00:00:29,559 --> 00:00:30,959
why we're doing this in a second.

15
00:00:31,829 --> 00:00:32,869
But

16
00:00:33,189 --> 00:00:33,990
I,

17
00:00:34,709 --> 00:00:36,060
my heart is

18
00:00:36,310 --> 00:00:37,169
really

19
00:00:37,389 --> 00:00:38,900
in tune right now

20
00:00:39,389 --> 00:00:41,139
with what's going on.

21
00:00:41,799 --> 00:00:42,720
In play therapy.

22
00:00:43,779 --> 00:00:44,759
And

23
00:00:44,950 --> 00:00:45,830
the more that I travel,

24
00:00:45,869 --> 00:00:46,669
the more that I speak,

25
00:00:46,770 --> 00:00:48,360
the more that I coach therapists,

26
00:00:48,430 --> 00:00:50,659
the more that I interact with therapists on the Collective.

27
00:00:51,740 --> 00:00:54,459
And hear from podcast listeners and emails.

28
00:00:55,540 --> 00:00:56,380
I am

29
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,639
seeing again and again

30
00:00:59,250 --> 00:01:02,130
that people want to be CCPT

31
00:01:02,490 --> 00:01:04,610
or they profess to be CCPT

32
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,129
or they think that they're CCPT.

33
00:01:08,199 --> 00:01:08,970
And they're not.

34
00:01:10,180 --> 00:01:11,360
And so

35
00:01:11,870 --> 00:01:13,360
that breaks my heart #1.

36
00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:14,419
#2,

37
00:01:14,830 --> 00:01:16,260
I need to do something about it.

38
00:01:16,750 --> 00:01:17,150
So

39
00:01:17,510 --> 00:01:18,099
see a problem,

40
00:01:18,150 --> 00:01:18,819
don't complain,

41
00:01:18,910 --> 00:01:19,449
do something.

42
00:01:19,550 --> 00:01:20,580
So that's my motto.

43
00:01:20,790 --> 00:01:21,500
Here we are.

44
00:01:21,989 --> 00:01:25,099
And this CCPT purism series,

45
00:01:25,309 --> 00:01:26,580
it's gonna be quite long,

46
00:01:27,110 --> 00:01:30,069
kind of along the lines of maybe the summer school series last summer.

47
00:01:30,819 --> 00:01:32,000
And here's why

48
00:01:32,370 --> 00:01:34,970
we have to go back to the foundations.

49
00:01:36,169 --> 00:01:40,419
We will never fully grasp what CCPT is all about

50
00:01:41,069 --> 00:01:42,879
and also how to be.

51
00:01:43,769 --> 00:01:45,510
A purist in the model

52
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,669
if we don't understand

53
00:01:47,919 --> 00:01:48,870
where it came from

54
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:50,120
and how it evolved

55
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,150
and why

56
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,750
adherence matters

57
00:01:52,959 --> 00:01:53,730
and I've,

58
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:54,839
I've talked about

59
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,949
a lot of this stuff many times so you might go,

60
00:01:57,980 --> 00:01:58,430
oh gosh,

61
00:01:58,519 --> 00:01:58,800
OK,

62
00:01:58,839 --> 00:01:59,199
here we go,

63
00:01:59,239 --> 00:02:00,480
we're gonna go through the same stuff again.

64
00:02:00,599 --> 00:02:00,760
No,

65
00:02:00,839 --> 00:02:01,489
this is,

66
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,989
this is into the depth of the caves.

67
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:04,669
Now we,

68
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,540
we were spelunking at the top before and now

69
00:02:07,540 --> 00:02:10,910
we're going as deep as the cave is deep because

70
00:02:11,619 --> 00:02:13,929
I feel like this is the missing link.

71
00:02:14,830 --> 00:02:15,470
And

72
00:02:15,630 --> 00:02:16,889
if I can do anything about it,

73
00:02:17,029 --> 00:02:17,740
I'm gonna try.

74
00:02:17,910 --> 00:02:19,380
So this is what we're gonna do.

75
00:02:19,630 --> 00:02:19,899
However,

76
00:02:20,110 --> 00:02:22,020
I want to give a little intro to this.

77
00:02:22,619 --> 00:02:23,800
One of my coaching,

78
00:02:23,910 --> 00:02:26,389
former coaching participants and members in one,

79
00:02:26,589 --> 00:02:27,820
she's a member in the Collective,

80
00:02:28,539 --> 00:02:31,460
she emailed me a happy birthday email

81
00:02:32,029 --> 00:02:32,979
and then said,

82
00:02:33,110 --> 00:02:34,360
I want to share

83
00:02:34,750 --> 00:02:36,580
a quick reflection from my heart.

84
00:02:36,990 --> 00:02:38,380
She gave me permission to share this.

85
00:02:39,740 --> 00:02:43,130
And I want you to hear what she

86
00:02:43,410 --> 00:02:44,279
is noticing,

87
00:02:44,449 --> 00:02:45,800
what she's observing,

88
00:02:45,889 --> 00:02:48,210
and how she connects to it,

89
00:02:48,729 --> 00:02:52,399
because I think this is really another example of

90
00:02:52,649 --> 00:02:54,570
what this series is all about.

91
00:02:55,009 --> 00:02:55,850
It's about.

92
00:02:56,869 --> 00:03:00,529
Not really truly being CCPT in not only

93
00:03:00,529 --> 00:03:02,830
application but also in awareness and understanding.

94
00:03:03,649 --> 00:03:04,240
And,

95
00:03:04,250 --> 00:03:06,279
and the lack of adherence and

96
00:03:06,970 --> 00:03:08,610
her experience specifically

97
00:03:08,970 --> 00:03:09,759
when she

98
00:03:10,009 --> 00:03:10,720
went all in.

99
00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:14,009
What that meant for her and how it changed her perspective.

100
00:03:14,339 --> 00:03:14,820
So Jenna,

101
00:03:14,830 --> 00:03:16,250
thank you for letting me share this.

102
00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:18,539
So let me read parts of her email and then we

103
00:03:18,539 --> 00:03:21,690
will dive into the first episode of the CCPT Purism series.

104
00:03:21,820 --> 00:03:22,210
So,

105
00:03:23,830 --> 00:03:26,350
As I've been active on the Collective and on the calls,

106
00:03:26,449 --> 00:03:28,830
I've found myself shocked at what therapists are

107
00:03:28,830 --> 00:03:30,740
shocked about when it comes to children.

108
00:03:31,559 --> 00:03:34,369
I can always tell when there's a new member

109
00:03:34,899 --> 00:03:37,300
that is potentially coming from directive origins.

110
00:03:38,490 --> 00:03:40,789
I understand their thought process.

111
00:03:41,130 --> 00:03:45,169
They're the ones who are usually shocked by behaviors that are childlike

112
00:03:45,809 --> 00:03:46,250
spitting,

113
00:03:46,369 --> 00:03:47,039
aggression,

114
00:03:47,250 --> 00:03:47,970
potty words,

115
00:03:48,050 --> 00:03:48,919
and so on.

116
00:03:49,410 --> 00:03:51,800
The amount offendedness sometimes makes me giggle

117
00:03:52,169 --> 00:03:53,679
or makes me frustrated,

118
00:03:54,089 --> 00:03:56,729
and I say this with love and not judgment because,

119
00:03:56,850 --> 00:03:57,889
and she wrote in caps,

120
00:03:58,009 --> 00:03:59,360
I was once them.

121
00:04:00,550 --> 00:04:03,800
There is this one child in particular that I look back on and I

122
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,839
cringe at the thought of the way that I conducted quote therapy with her.

123
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:10,830
Her behavior used to shock me.

124
00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:12,679
I used to think,

125
00:04:12,710 --> 00:04:17,178
and dare I say speak words like manipulative when I would describe her.

126
00:04:17,510 --> 00:04:18,820
She was 5 years old.

127
00:04:19,428 --> 00:04:20,899
I had all the directives,

128
00:04:20,988 --> 00:04:21,750
worksheets,

129
00:04:21,950 --> 00:04:23,089
behavior exercises,

130
00:04:23,109 --> 00:04:23,510
etc.

131
00:04:24,109 --> 00:04:25,500
and she never got better.

132
00:04:26,149 --> 00:04:28,500
It only got worse in my therapy office.

133
00:04:29,190 --> 00:04:30,820
No surprise to me now.

134
00:04:31,149 --> 00:04:33,380
She was classic power and control,

135
00:04:33,670 --> 00:04:38,079
and my directives and expectations on how therapy is supposed to look

136
00:04:38,429 --> 00:04:40,339
was battling right up against her.

137
00:04:40,940 --> 00:04:42,250
She never got better,

138
00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:45,369
and I eventually went on maternity leave for my first child

139
00:04:45,619 --> 00:04:48,609
and was quote very happy to refer her out.

140
00:04:49,609 --> 00:04:50,989
You know what the crazy part is?

141
00:04:51,829 --> 00:04:54,649
I would die to have her back in my office.

142
00:04:55,179 --> 00:04:56,089
Want to know why?

143
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,170
In caps because her behaviors weren't even that bad.

144
00:05:02,769 --> 00:05:04,410
And what was I offended about?

145
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:05,630
She was 5.

146
00:05:06,239 --> 00:05:08,869
Where did I learn to feel this way about children,

147
00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,790
never having experience working with them until I became a therapist.

148
00:05:13,510 --> 00:05:16,299
I can only point to it had to be the underlying

149
00:05:16,299 --> 00:05:20,130
message from all the other directive therapies that I imposed,

150
00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:20,929
quote,

151
00:05:21,179 --> 00:05:22,109
You need to be,

152
00:05:22,299 --> 00:05:22,769
think,

153
00:05:22,940 --> 00:05:24,010
and feel this way,

154
00:05:24,339 --> 00:05:26,149
or I'm not doing a good enough job,

155
00:05:26,339 --> 00:05:26,899
end quote.

156
00:05:27,940 --> 00:05:31,059
The kids I extend love and acceptance to now

157
00:05:31,390 --> 00:05:34,950
are above and beyond in behaviors than she ever was.

158
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,559
And you wanna know what's even crazier?

159
00:05:38,130 --> 00:05:40,359
For me to understand that little girl now

160
00:05:41,010 --> 00:05:44,480
took me dropping the directives and becoming non-directive.

161
00:05:45,260 --> 00:05:47,859
I know you know this isn't actually crazy,

162
00:05:48,269 --> 00:05:50,709
but you and I both know that 80% of

163
00:05:50,709 --> 00:05:53,609
the play therapists out there think that this little girl

164
00:05:53,869 --> 00:05:56,420
could never be helped by being non-directive.

165
00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:58,670
The wonderful part is,

166
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:00,750
I know with all my being

167
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,380
that I could have helped that little girl if I was CCPT.

168
00:06:05,540 --> 00:06:09,369
One part of me kicks myself for not discovering CCPT sooner.

169
00:06:10,290 --> 00:06:13,320
But the other part of me is grateful because I now know,

170
00:06:13,489 --> 00:06:14,880
without a shadow of a doubt

171
00:06:15,399 --> 00:06:18,720
that CCPT doesn't need to be questioned or doubted.

172
00:06:19,130 --> 00:06:21,440
I have experience and evidence to prove it.

173
00:06:24,170 --> 00:06:27,230
And I could tell you story after story after story.

174
00:06:28,209 --> 00:06:31,100
Where therapists have shared that exact same sentiment with me.

175
00:06:32,510 --> 00:06:33,660
I used to do this,

176
00:06:33,820 --> 00:06:34,269
think this,

177
00:06:34,420 --> 00:06:35,019
say this,

178
00:06:35,179 --> 00:06:36,089
act this,

179
00:06:36,380 --> 00:06:37,070
be this.

180
00:06:38,579 --> 00:06:39,489
And

181
00:06:39,779 --> 00:06:41,250
I wish I could go back.

182
00:06:42,149 --> 00:06:42,769
And man,

183
00:06:42,779 --> 00:06:44,260
if I knew now,

184
00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:46,049
if I knew then what I knew now.

185
00:06:46,660 --> 00:06:47,260
And

186
00:06:47,859 --> 00:06:48,059
gosh,

187
00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:49,649
if I could do that over again,

188
00:06:49,859 --> 00:06:53,230
and what I wouldn't give to have that client in my playroom again.

189
00:06:53,540 --> 00:06:53,899
Why?

190
00:06:54,220 --> 00:06:54,609
Because

191
00:06:54,820 --> 00:06:55,339
once you know,

192
00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:56,010
you know.

193
00:06:56,730 --> 00:06:57,670
And once you see it,

194
00:06:57,709 --> 00:06:58,480
you see it.

195
00:06:58,989 --> 00:07:00,929
And once you are CCPT.

196
00:07:01,769 --> 00:07:02,820
You never go back.

197
00:07:04,369 --> 00:07:04,929
So Jenna,

198
00:07:04,940 --> 00:07:06,380
thank you so much for letting me share that,

199
00:07:06,390 --> 00:07:08,179
and I hope that that connects with you.

200
00:07:08,220 --> 00:07:09,589
I hope that you

201
00:07:10,459 --> 00:07:11,750
understand the value.

202
00:07:13,149 --> 00:07:13,739
Of

203
00:07:14,109 --> 00:07:17,040
deeply grasping what this is all about,

204
00:07:17,350 --> 00:07:21,540
and I don't think that's possible unless we go back to the beginning

205
00:07:21,750 --> 00:07:23,200
and back to the foundations

206
00:07:23,670 --> 00:07:24,779
to be fully

207
00:07:25,790 --> 00:07:27,630
A CCPT purist,

208
00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:31,239
you have to understand it at the very

209
00:07:31,410 --> 00:07:32,890
depths of the model.

210
00:07:33,329 --> 00:07:35,179
So that's what this series is all about.

211
00:07:36,589 --> 00:07:36,989
All righty,

212
00:07:37,190 --> 00:07:38,130
so let's dive in.

213
00:07:38,559 --> 00:07:41,350
Today we are going to go back to Rogers.

214
00:07:41,470 --> 00:07:41,779
Now,

215
00:07:41,989 --> 00:07:44,019
for those of you that have been around the block with me,

216
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:45,709
probably hundreds of times,

217
00:07:45,829 --> 00:07:46,709
some of you dozens,

218
00:07:46,829 --> 00:07:48,260
some of you single digits,

219
00:07:48,989 --> 00:07:51,790
you will not be surprised that I'm going back to Rogers.

220
00:07:51,809 --> 00:07:53,100
If you are new to the podcast,

221
00:07:53,309 --> 00:07:54,529
new to CCPT,

222
00:07:55,029 --> 00:07:57,279
new to this whole working with kids thing.

223
00:07:58,390 --> 00:08:00,690
You may not have any construct of Carl

224
00:08:00,690 --> 00:08:03,179
Rogers being tied to child-centered play therapy,

225
00:08:03,510 --> 00:08:04,230
but regardless,

226
00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:07,700
we're going to look at this a little bit more intentionally because

227
00:08:08,070 --> 00:08:09,140
if we don't

228
00:08:09,309 --> 00:08:10,540
go there first,

229
00:08:10,829 --> 00:08:12,100
the rest of this falls apart.

230
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:12,730
So,

231
00:08:13,470 --> 00:08:16,859
what we need to understand about Roger's life and his work.

232
00:08:17,929 --> 00:08:19,089
Is that

233
00:08:19,489 --> 00:08:20,279
he

234
00:08:21,380 --> 00:08:23,809
Produced a revolutionary shift.

235
00:08:24,609 --> 00:08:25,500
In therapy.

236
00:08:26,820 --> 00:08:28,359
And here's what I mean by that.

237
00:08:28,649 --> 00:08:29,559
You had

238
00:08:30,170 --> 00:08:33,479
psychoanalytic theories previous to Rogers,

239
00:08:33,530 --> 00:08:34,320
and you had

240
00:08:34,690 --> 00:08:37,250
behaviorism theories previous to Roger's.

241
00:08:37,929 --> 00:08:39,808
And for those of you that don't remember

242
00:08:40,460 --> 00:08:42,450
theories's class in grad school,

243
00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:45,450
we're talking about Freud and Skinner,

244
00:08:45,530 --> 00:08:47,020
and Watson and Pavlov,

245
00:08:47,099 --> 00:08:47,469
and you know,

246
00:08:47,539 --> 00:08:48,450
the list goes on.

247
00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:49,130
So

248
00:08:50,020 --> 00:08:52,520
we think back to those theories,

249
00:08:52,859 --> 00:08:54,940
we think back to what was being put out

250
00:08:54,940 --> 00:08:58,669
into the world about psychology and about psychotherapy.

251
00:08:59,809 --> 00:09:02,809
And if we go back to psychoanalytic theories first.

252
00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:07,179
That is 100% driven by

253
00:09:07,309 --> 00:09:08,820
unconscious mind

254
00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:10,500
driving all behavior,

255
00:09:11,070 --> 00:09:11,549
OK?

256
00:09:11,869 --> 00:09:12,859
Which means

257
00:09:13,270 --> 00:09:16,419
that therapy was designed to be interpretive.

258
00:09:16,950 --> 00:09:18,179
The therapist

259
00:09:18,789 --> 00:09:19,820
only job

260
00:09:20,390 --> 00:09:23,030
was to analyze what was going on.

261
00:09:24,030 --> 00:09:25,590
And therefore,

262
00:09:26,090 --> 00:09:28,520
change was seen as dependent

263
00:09:29,090 --> 00:09:31,099
on the therapist's insight

264
00:09:31,570 --> 00:09:33,440
rather than the client's awareness.

265
00:09:33,609 --> 00:09:33,809
If,

266
00:09:33,849 --> 00:09:34,760
if we don't get this,

267
00:09:34,809 --> 00:09:35,239
y'all,

268
00:09:35,530 --> 00:09:37,400
I could just stop the series right now.

269
00:09:39,349 --> 00:09:43,400
The enlarge this to CCPT as I'm processing this with you.

270
00:09:44,719 --> 00:09:46,750
In the psychoanalytic model.

271
00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:50,520
Change was seen as dependent

272
00:09:51,150 --> 00:09:54,659
on the therapist's insight and interpretations,

273
00:09:55,390 --> 00:09:58,599
meaning a client could not get better.

274
00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,119
Without the therapist.

275
00:10:02,390 --> 00:10:05,900
And everything hinged back to the therapist's ability

276
00:10:06,070 --> 00:10:07,700
to figure out what was happening,

277
00:10:07,750 --> 00:10:09,820
and to tell the person what to do,

278
00:10:09,950 --> 00:10:12,179
and to give the person interpretation.

279
00:10:12,510 --> 00:10:12,919
OK.

280
00:10:13,109 --> 00:10:13,500
So,

281
00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:16,030
let's think about the directive nature of that.

282
00:10:17,669 --> 00:10:18,099
Now,

283
00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:21,179
Rogers comes onto the scene.

284
00:10:22,070 --> 00:10:23,150
And says

285
00:10:23,690 --> 00:10:26,380
this is actually a conscious process.

286
00:10:26,650 --> 00:10:28,099
It's not unconscious,

287
00:10:28,450 --> 00:10:29,679
it's conscious

288
00:10:30,530 --> 00:10:31,090
because

289
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,309
Every human wants to self-actualize.

290
00:10:36,590 --> 00:10:38,270
This was revolutionary.

291
00:10:39,179 --> 00:10:40,890
Because it essentially said

292
00:10:41,580 --> 00:10:43,219
clients can heal themselves.

293
00:10:44,570 --> 00:10:46,710
They will consciously choose

294
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,429
to become a better version of themselves

295
00:10:49,799 --> 00:10:51,440
with the right conditions.

296
00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:52,669
OK.

297
00:10:53,599 --> 00:10:56,219
So people are naturally inclined toward growth

298
00:10:56,219 --> 00:10:57,890
and healing with the right environment.

299
00:10:58,059 --> 00:10:58,229
He,

300
00:10:58,299 --> 00:10:59,690
he puts that into the world.

301
00:11:00,750 --> 00:11:02,940
Therapy should focus on the future,

302
00:11:03,070 --> 00:11:04,179
not just the past.

303
00:11:04,469 --> 00:11:07,419
That was a concept no one had ever considered before.

304
00:11:08,450 --> 00:11:10,000
And more

305
00:11:10,369 --> 00:11:11,119
importantly,

306
00:11:11,570 --> 00:11:13,609
change happens internally

307
00:11:13,929 --> 00:11:15,000
within the client.

308
00:11:16,099 --> 00:11:17,809
Not because the therapist

309
00:11:18,140 --> 00:11:18,650
is

310
00:11:18,909 --> 00:11:19,380
helping,

311
00:11:19,710 --> 00:11:20,419
suggesting,

312
00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:21,039
interpreting,

313
00:11:21,059 --> 00:11:21,580
analyzing,

314
00:11:21,619 --> 00:11:22,130
whatever.

315
00:11:22,780 --> 00:11:25,309
Change happens internally within the client.

316
00:11:26,770 --> 00:11:27,239
This

317
00:11:27,409 --> 00:11:29,219
was monumental

318
00:11:29,609 --> 00:11:31,289
when Rogers puts this out.

319
00:11:32,330 --> 00:11:34,000
And here's why this matters.

320
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:34,950
Remember,

321
00:11:35,119 --> 00:11:37,349
this is about child-centered play therapy,

322
00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,150
even though we're going all the way back.

323
00:11:39,909 --> 00:11:40,539
So,

324
00:11:40,789 --> 00:11:41,580
enlarge this,

325
00:11:41,669 --> 00:11:43,469
liken this to CCPT.

326
00:11:44,599 --> 00:11:47,750
The shift that took place was essentially

327
00:11:48,479 --> 00:11:50,309
from therapist authority

328
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,280
to client autonomy.

329
00:11:55,010 --> 00:11:55,640
let that

330
00:11:56,530 --> 00:11:57,559
land for a second.

331
00:11:59,289 --> 00:12:01,030
Rogers took away.

332
00:12:01,770 --> 00:12:02,619
The idea

333
00:12:03,359 --> 00:12:05,669
That the therapist had the authority.

334
00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:08,429
For a client's healing journey.

335
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,460
And returned that back to the client

336
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:14,909
and gave the client their own autonomy.

337
00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:17,770
I,

338
00:12:17,780 --> 00:12:18,340
I'm gonna,

339
00:12:18,580 --> 00:12:20,179
I'm gonna go on a tangent for a second,

340
00:12:20,219 --> 00:12:21,450
but I promise it's relevant.

341
00:12:22,390 --> 00:12:23,940
Every single time.

342
00:12:24,799 --> 00:12:28,080
A play therapist professing to be CCPT.

343
00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:30,770
Goes rogue

344
00:12:31,630 --> 00:12:35,299
And does something that is not adherent to CCPT.

345
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:37,359
Asks a question,

346
00:12:37,669 --> 00:12:38,559
brings up

347
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:40,659
a discussion topic,

348
00:12:40,989 --> 00:12:42,059
does an activity,

349
00:12:42,309 --> 00:12:43,419
brings in a worksheet,

350
00:12:43,549 --> 00:12:48,900
reads a child a book has brings mom into the session for the last 15 minutes,

351
00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:51,380
whatever the scenario is,

352
00:12:52,109 --> 00:12:56,150
every time a play therapist that professes to be CCPT does that.

353
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,630
They're basically saying

354
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,229
I as the therapist have the authority

355
00:13:01,799 --> 00:13:03,830
to decide what's going to happen for you.

356
00:13:05,229 --> 00:13:05,820
Gosh,

357
00:13:06,059 --> 00:13:06,179
w,

358
00:13:06,309 --> 00:13:07,460
how do we not get this?

359
00:13:07,530 --> 00:13:07,539
The,

360
00:13:07,549 --> 00:13:08,099
the,

361
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:08,700
this

362
00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:10,190
makes me lose sleep at night.

363
00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:10,669
That's not true.

364
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:11,659
I actually sleep really well,

365
00:13:11,690 --> 00:13:13,070
but if something were to keep me up,

366
00:13:13,150 --> 00:13:13,960
this would be it.

367
00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:14,679
I

368
00:13:15,979 --> 00:13:17,140
We need to

369
00:13:18,099 --> 00:13:18,849
Provide

370
00:13:19,140 --> 00:13:19,669
kids.

371
00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:22,369
With the ability.

372
00:13:23,539 --> 00:13:25,770
To have autonomy over their own healing.

373
00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:29,289
How could we ever think that we know better than them?

374
00:13:31,359 --> 00:13:32,690
What a selfish,

375
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,080
self-centered

376
00:13:34,599 --> 00:13:37,030
pontificating view of the world

377
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:38,210
that

378
00:13:38,599 --> 00:13:41,479
I'm gonna tell you what you need to do to heal and it's

379
00:13:41,479 --> 00:13:45,460
gonna be reliant on my knowledge and my expertise and my insight.

380
00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:46,789
Gosh,

381
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:47,950
may we never,

382
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,640
may we never go into a playroom with that attitude.

383
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,669
Rogers said the therapist no longer has the authority,

384
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,559
the client needs autonomy.

385
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,049
And here's the thing.

386
00:14:03,039 --> 00:14:04,059
That means,

387
00:14:04,299 --> 00:14:05,809
in the grand scheme of things,

388
00:14:06,179 --> 00:14:08,770
that therapists are never superior

389
00:14:08,979 --> 00:14:09,739
to clients.

390
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,159
People already possess the ability to solve their own problems.

391
00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:19,590
Kids already know their issues.

392
00:14:19,729 --> 00:14:21,880
They already know what they're struggling with.

393
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:24,789
They just need the

394
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:26,000
environment.

395
00:14:26,679 --> 00:14:27,929
And the relationship.

396
00:14:28,940 --> 00:14:30,030
And they'll sort it out.

397
00:14:32,619 --> 00:14:33,190
So

398
00:14:33,539 --> 00:14:35,169
that in and of itself

399
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:38,059
should change behavior in a playroom.

400
00:14:38,219 --> 00:14:40,729
That in and of itself should change philosophy

401
00:14:41,140 --> 00:14:43,130
about what play therapy is all about.

402
00:14:44,820 --> 00:14:46,010
But there's more,

403
00:14:46,260 --> 00:14:46,849
OK,

404
00:14:47,179 --> 00:14:47,580
so.

405
00:14:48,659 --> 00:14:49,770
Think about

406
00:14:50,260 --> 00:14:51,020
behaviorism now.

407
00:14:51,099 --> 00:14:52,489
That was the psychoanalytic shift,

408
00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:53,020
OK?

409
00:14:53,140 --> 00:14:55,530
We also have behaviorism in play at this time.

410
00:14:56,580 --> 00:14:57,409
So,

411
00:14:57,700 --> 00:15:00,140
it's very fascinating to think about

412
00:15:00,460 --> 00:15:02,049
external control

413
00:15:02,659 --> 00:15:04,580
versus internal growth,

414
00:15:05,059 --> 00:15:05,450
right?

415
00:15:05,739 --> 00:15:07,450
Because think about behaviorism,

416
00:15:07,739 --> 00:15:08,789
you had Skinner,

417
00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:12,260
which for those of you that may not recall this,

418
00:15:12,479 --> 00:15:13,729
operant conditioning,

419
00:15:13,859 --> 00:15:14,280
right?

420
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:15,570
You had Pavlov,

421
00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:16,929
classical conditioning.

422
00:15:17,390 --> 00:15:17,909
OK.

423
00:15:18,250 --> 00:15:19,099
Here's the thing,

424
00:15:19,419 --> 00:15:21,690
it was focused entirely

425
00:15:21,940 --> 00:15:23,289
on observable behavior.

426
00:15:25,679 --> 00:15:25,929
So,

427
00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:26,539
therefore,

428
00:15:26,739 --> 00:15:29,659
change came from reinforcement or punishment.

429
00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:31,739
And conditioning

430
00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:34,070
And essentially

431
00:15:34,369 --> 00:15:36,400
the environment controlled behavior.

432
00:15:38,340 --> 00:15:39,400
And I hope that makes sense.

433
00:15:39,450 --> 00:15:43,330
You have to think back to ringing the bell and the dog salivating and all that,

434
00:15:43,340 --> 00:15:43,590
OK?

435
00:15:43,650 --> 00:15:43,919
So

436
00:15:44,250 --> 00:15:46,080
the environment was a factor,

437
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,960
reinforcement and punishment and conditioning,

438
00:15:49,530 --> 00:15:53,640
all of that influenced change according to the behaviorists.

439
00:15:54,049 --> 00:15:55,280
Rogers comes in

440
00:15:55,570 --> 00:15:56,330
and says.

441
00:15:58,750 --> 00:16:01,090
If you focus on external control.

442
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,239
That doesn't allow the client to have any measure

443
00:16:05,530 --> 00:16:06,609
of their own healing.

444
00:16:08,169 --> 00:16:11,219
It is an internal self-discovery process.

445
00:16:12,859 --> 00:16:16,489
And that doesn't allow for the inner world to be explored?

446
00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:17,419
What are your thoughts?

447
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:18,219
What are your feelings?

448
00:16:18,340 --> 00:16:19,489
What are your perceptions?

449
00:16:20,729 --> 00:16:23,169
Your inner world matters when you're healing

450
00:16:23,169 --> 00:16:24,489
and when you're sorting through stuff.

451
00:16:24,530 --> 00:16:26,159
It's not just environmental,

452
00:16:26,369 --> 00:16:27,809
it's not just conditioned.

453
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,679
And you can't treat people like

454
00:16:31,849 --> 00:16:33,330
robots or machines.

455
00:16:34,690 --> 00:16:35,380
So,

456
00:16:35,510 --> 00:16:38,869
we got away from the external control of behaviorism.

457
00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:40,190
And

458
00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:41,020
Roger said,

459
00:16:41,109 --> 00:16:41,229
look,

460
00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:43,630
this is about internal self-discovery.

461
00:16:45,539 --> 00:16:48,440
And this is where it all lands for the behaviorism shift.

462
00:16:50,210 --> 00:16:51,960
Behaviorists saw therapy.

463
00:16:52,890 --> 00:16:54,760
As a method to fix

464
00:16:55,239 --> 00:16:55,719
behavior.

465
00:16:58,909 --> 00:17:00,229
Kids don't need to be fixed.

466
00:17:01,340 --> 00:17:02,099
They never have,

467
00:17:02,140 --> 00:17:03,010
they never will.

468
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,108
They're not broken,

469
00:17:05,479 --> 00:17:06,589
they're not damaged.

470
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:09,270
They don't need to be fixed.

471
00:17:11,368 --> 00:17:14,069
And behaviorism said therapy is just a method

472
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:15,790
to fix behavior.

473
00:17:16,410 --> 00:17:19,540
And we do that by shaping responses

474
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:20,540
through rewards,

475
00:17:20,598 --> 00:17:21,079
punishments,

476
00:17:21,118 --> 00:17:21,880
and conditioning.

477
00:17:24,198 --> 00:17:24,688
That

478
00:17:24,798 --> 00:17:25,358
is

479
00:17:25,638 --> 00:17:26,358
horrifying.

480
00:17:27,449 --> 00:17:28,739
Rogers said

481
00:17:29,449 --> 00:17:31,469
Let's foster a relationship.

482
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:33,949
That allows for growth.

483
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,790
And then a client will explore their own experiences.

484
00:17:38,829 --> 00:17:41,239
They'll process their own internal self-discovery.

485
00:17:43,489 --> 00:17:43,959
So

486
00:17:45,150 --> 00:17:46,479
That is how

487
00:17:46,729 --> 00:17:50,819
Rogers pioneered a whole new construct.

488
00:17:51,839 --> 00:17:53,500
Of what therapy was,

489
00:17:54,109 --> 00:17:54,579
what

490
00:17:54,869 --> 00:17:56,619
created positive outcomes,

491
00:17:57,180 --> 00:17:59,339
what shifts needed to take place in our thinking,

492
00:17:59,510 --> 00:18:00,500
in our belief system,

493
00:18:00,550 --> 00:18:01,540
in our structure.

494
00:18:02,719 --> 00:18:06,040
It flew in the face of everything that had already been established

495
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,089
in psychology and in psychotherapy.

496
00:18:09,469 --> 00:18:09,790
All right,

497
00:18:09,949 --> 00:18:10,880
so now.

498
00:18:12,069 --> 00:18:12,829
Instead of,

499
00:18:12,869 --> 00:18:13,109
here,

500
00:18:13,150 --> 00:18:14,540
here's where we're gonna look at.

501
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:17,589
Last 4 things before we wrap up for today.

502
00:18:19,420 --> 00:18:22,849
There are 4 main aspects of the person-centered approach.

503
00:18:23,670 --> 00:18:24,829
But I want to make sure that this

504
00:18:24,829 --> 00:18:29,140
ties in to the shift from psychoanalytic and behaviorism

505
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:30,180
into

506
00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:31,349
person centered.

507
00:18:32,420 --> 00:18:35,689
Instead of focusing on external control.

508
00:18:36,540 --> 00:18:38,239
Which was the behaviorists.

509
00:18:40,050 --> 00:18:45,439
And instead of focusing on hidden unconscious conflict,

510
00:18:45,949 --> 00:18:47,550
which was the psychoanalytic camp.

511
00:18:49,060 --> 00:18:51,520
Rogers conceived of a model.

512
00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:55,209
That focused on empowerment.

513
00:18:56,829 --> 00:18:58,439
Self exploration.

514
00:18:59,479 --> 00:19:01,619
And non-directive approach.

515
00:19:02,750 --> 00:19:03,619
Let me say that again.

516
00:19:03,859 --> 00:19:04,739
Empowerment.

517
00:19:05,719 --> 00:19:07,119
Self exploration.

518
00:19:07,910 --> 00:19:09,459
And non-directive approach.

519
00:19:11,469 --> 00:19:13,989
It was like nothing anyone had ever seen.

520
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:16,339
And here are

521
00:19:16,550 --> 00:19:19,339
the key aspects that he came up with as a result.

522
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:22,650
The self-actualizing tendency.

523
00:19:23,819 --> 00:19:26,310
He believed that every human being,

524
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:27,770
this is true of kids,

525
00:19:28,339 --> 00:19:29,589
every human being

526
00:19:29,859 --> 00:19:33,369
has an inborn drive toward growth and self-improvement.

527
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,069
Every single being is wired to become a better version of themselves.

528
00:19:40,699 --> 00:19:41,040
So,

529
00:19:41,150 --> 00:19:42,699
that's the first concept.

530
00:19:42,949 --> 00:19:43,459
Second,

531
00:19:44,069 --> 00:19:45,680
unconditional positive regard.

532
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:47,680
We're at core conditions.

533
00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:51,280
A person is able to thrive.

534
00:19:52,270 --> 00:19:55,430
When they feel completely accepted without conditions.

535
00:19:57,329 --> 00:20:00,010
Think about how a person feels in a psychoanalytic session.

536
00:20:01,449 --> 00:20:02,739
Therapist has all the control,

537
00:20:02,790 --> 00:20:03,390
all the knowledge,

538
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:04,199
all the awareness,

539
00:20:04,270 --> 00:20:05,099
all the power,

540
00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:07,829
and I'm beholden to you because if you can't figure this out,

541
00:20:07,890 --> 00:20:09,739
I'm certainly not gonna be able to figure this out.

542
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,520
What learned helplessness that creates,

543
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:13,310
good grief.

544
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:13,680
Now,

545
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:15,550
let's think about it in terms of behaviorism.

546
00:20:16,530 --> 00:20:18,160
The environment dictates it,

547
00:20:18,369 --> 00:20:21,589
and you're either going to get punished or you're going

548
00:20:22,209 --> 00:20:23,439
to have reinforcement,

549
00:20:23,609 --> 00:20:27,040
and we're going to condition you to fix your behaviors.

550
00:20:29,189 --> 00:20:30,099
You have no

551
00:20:30,540 --> 00:20:31,369
control over that either.

552
00:20:33,130 --> 00:20:34,530
So Rogers says

553
00:20:34,829 --> 00:20:38,829
a person can thrive when they feel completely accepted without conditions.

554
00:20:39,630 --> 00:20:40,569
It's revolutionary.

555
00:20:41,339 --> 00:20:42,140
Third,

556
00:20:42,699 --> 00:20:43,650
self-concept.

557
00:20:45,260 --> 00:20:46,810
People struggle

558
00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:48,969
if their self-concept

559
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:50,270
is distorted.

560
00:20:52,609 --> 00:20:55,500
So a huge component of person centered

561
00:20:55,910 --> 00:20:57,180
is helping people

562
00:20:58,030 --> 00:20:59,489
increase their self-concept.

563
00:21:01,339 --> 00:21:02,829
And then the fourth

564
00:21:03,170 --> 00:21:03,829
aspect

565
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:05,910
was that it was non-directive.

566
00:21:06,459 --> 00:21:08,270
The therapist does not have to lead.

567
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:09,550
They don't have to teach,

568
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,069
they don't have to instruct,

569
00:21:11,199 --> 00:21:12,579
they don't have to interpret.

570
00:21:13,199 --> 00:21:15,449
Here's what a person centered therapist does

571
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,810
and again enlarge this to CCPT.

572
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,930
This is what a person centered therapist does.

573
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,250
Provides a space

574
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:23,579
for the client

575
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,560
to discover their own insights.

576
00:21:28,849 --> 00:21:31,359
If we trust that kids know what they're struggling with,

577
00:21:31,689 --> 00:21:34,479
we also trust that they will self-actualize.

578
00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:37,319
We trust that if we provide a space,

579
00:21:38,380 --> 00:21:39,250
They'll discover

580
00:21:39,380 --> 00:21:40,579
the insight that they need.

581
00:21:43,060 --> 00:21:46,520
So I hope that this is helping you to understand.

582
00:21:47,709 --> 00:21:49,449
That because he said

583
00:21:50,829 --> 00:21:53,219
We believe in self-directed growth.

584
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:55,869
That

585
00:21:56,079 --> 00:21:58,890
pioneered the way for child-centered play therapy.

586
00:22:00,089 --> 00:22:00,619
And

587
00:22:01,890 --> 00:22:02,770
Above all,

588
00:22:02,859 --> 00:22:07,410
we talk about this all the time and I will talk about it again because it matters.

589
00:22:07,729 --> 00:22:09,849
The relationship is the healing factor.

590
00:22:11,630 --> 00:22:13,000
Growth happens

591
00:22:13,390 --> 00:22:14,459
through a warm

592
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:18,699
and empathic and accepting therapeutic relationship.

593
00:22:19,109 --> 00:22:20,140
Let me be really clear,

594
00:22:20,469 --> 00:22:21,089
not

595
00:22:21,390 --> 00:22:23,900
through directives or techniques

596
00:22:24,349 --> 00:22:25,260
or agenda.

597
00:22:26,250 --> 00:22:26,880
Or

598
00:22:27,739 --> 00:22:29,760
conditioning or fixing

599
00:22:29,969 --> 00:22:31,719
or interpretation,

600
00:22:32,380 --> 00:22:33,119
warm,

601
00:22:33,369 --> 00:22:34,359
empathic,

602
00:22:34,890 --> 00:22:36,920
accepting therapeutic relationship,

603
00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:38,449
that's the healing factor.

604
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,020
So as we move into this series over the next,

605
00:22:44,140 --> 00:22:44,579
I don't know,

606
00:22:44,699 --> 00:22:46,300
7, 8 or so weeks.

607
00:22:47,089 --> 00:22:49,050
I hope that this helps you

608
00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:50,609
not only feel grounded,

609
00:22:51,180 --> 00:22:53,650
but also really understand

610
00:22:54,020 --> 00:22:57,380
the principles that undergird everything that we do.

611
00:22:58,510 --> 00:23:02,939
It's easy to learn CCPT skills and think that we have it mastered,

612
00:23:03,229 --> 00:23:06,540
but intent is always more important

613
00:23:06,829 --> 00:23:07,589
than action.

614
00:23:09,060 --> 00:23:12,020
So we can act CCPT.

615
00:23:13,319 --> 00:23:15,310
If the intention doesn't match,

616
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,910
if the depth of understanding isn't there,

617
00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:19,469
it will fall flat.

618
00:23:20,589 --> 00:23:23,359
So my hope is that this series is really going to encourage us,

619
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,160
it's going to keep us adherent,

620
00:23:25,170 --> 00:23:26,109
it's going to

621
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,709
give us the information that we need so that we

622
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,670
are aware of the why,

623
00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:32,390
the why matters hashtag.

624
00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:33,989
All right,

625
00:23:34,189 --> 00:23:34,910
I love y'all.

626
00:23:35,069 --> 00:23:36,310
Thanks for hanging out with me.

627
00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:37,260
Oh,

628
00:23:37,449 --> 00:23:37,849
OK,

629
00:23:37,949 --> 00:23:39,579
you have a very short amount of time.

630
00:23:39,670 --> 00:23:42,260
If you are going to be at the Virginia APT conference

631
00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:45,099
or you're within driving distance of Richmond on Friday night,

632
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:48,020
you have like 2 days to RSVP for this meetup.

633
00:23:48,270 --> 00:23:49,660
So if you are

634
00:23:50,030 --> 00:23:51,339
a procrastinator,

635
00:23:51,550 --> 00:23:52,420
you better get on this.

636
00:23:52,510 --> 00:23:53,430
We're running out of time.

637
00:23:53,469 --> 00:23:54,550
I need to give a headcount.

638
00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:56,390
There's all kinds of factors in play here.

639
00:23:56,469 --> 00:23:56,780
So

640
00:23:57,270 --> 00:23:59,060
please make sure that you click the

641
00:23:59,790 --> 00:24:03,030
meetup link in the show notes so that you can get RSVP for that.

642
00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:04,829
For those of you that have already registered,

643
00:24:04,869 --> 00:24:06,180
I'm so excited to see you.

644
00:24:06,489 --> 00:24:09,310
And for all of the rest of you that are not gonna be in Virginia,

645
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:10,349
you know how much I love you.

646
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:11,229
We'll talk again soon.

647
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:11,630
Bye.

648
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:15,599
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

649
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:16,709
Brenna Hicks.

650
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,869
For more episodes and resources,

651
00:24:18,959 --> 00:24:23,719
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.