The Pitching Staff’s Ace: Caleb Cotham joins the show!

00:00:03
Speaker 1: Hi, this is Zach Wheeler. Welcome to Philly Show.

00:00:07
Speaker 2: Ruben Tomorrow, Junior, Jim Salisbury, Todds A lucky It's the Phillies Show. Phillies spring training is over. They are back in Philadelphia. Opening day is Thursday afternoon against the Rangers at Citizens Bank Bark And today in this episode, Phillies pitching coach Caleb Cotham. You will absolutely learn a lot about the Phillies pitchers about pitching. Great conversation here. It is Caleb Cotham.

00:00:40
Speaker 3: Caleb, thanks for coming on The Philly Show again. Returning guests. We appreciate it. We know how crazy busy you are. Let's just start with we're recording this Friday afternoon. There's three more great for league games ago. Just your general thoughts on what you've seen from this Phillies pitching staff this spring and just generally speaking, guest, kind of what has you excited because spring is a time for unending optimism and excitement about what the season could bring.

00:01:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's it's fun like spring training is fun because you get a lot more kind of in the weeds working with guys. So I think the guys that are on the team I think have gotten a little better, which you know, we're fortunate to have like a handful of pitchers where getting a betters, it's pretty tough at times to find kind of those stretch points. So you know, god Zeus has gotten, has change up a little bit better, his sinkers a little bit better.

00:01:33
Speaker 1: He's understanding his game even better, you.

00:01:37
Speaker 4: Know, navigating the World Baseball class with Noelan Sanchy, but just their their pros.

00:01:41
Speaker 1: That was good. But then you know, like today was really cool.

00:01:44
Speaker 4: I've been working on a lot of things with bowling and getting to know him, and that was probably his best outing.

00:01:50
Speaker 1: He's up to ninety nine, which was really cool to see.

00:01:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think generally, you know, found a couple of things here and there, and a lot of the younger guys gotten a full dose of kind of who we are and what we do. And it's just been fun to work with a group of new guys, but also the guys that are returning. There's a lot of time in there, so you can kind of go on things pretty fast.

00:02:14
Speaker 5: So Chris Sanchez has been named opening day starter. I mean, I remember when you guys got him, it was a minor league trade. Essentially, I think there was a roster situation in Tampa Bay and his development has been amazing. How much personal satisfaction do you and your staff take out of that watching this guy become one of the best in the business if you know him and Schoogle out there pitching to the two best left handers in the business according to a lot of war metrics and whatnot. Just to see him grow and not only that, what's the next piece of growth for him?

00:02:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good example of like it.

00:02:55
Speaker 4: It's tough, like when he's been so on for a while Nowaday, you know, it's do he add another pitch?

00:03:02
Speaker 1: Do so?

00:03:03
Speaker 4: For him, it's just can we get to get to the spots that he wants to get to as consistent as we can. But you know, rewinding all the way back to the first time I ever saw him in twenty twenty one, knew it was a great arm. It was a good competitor, very projectable body. He's like that guy that was having a lot of There's a lot of joy about his his work. You could tell how he interacted with his teammates, But the skill of throwing the ball and the strike zone wasn't quite there, so you know, it takes time for guys, and he is a he's a bigger dude lot, there's a lot going on. He's if you watch video from you know, twenty twenty one, twenty two is sands. She compared it now even if you go to twenty three twenty four, like how much tighter his delivery's gotten, how much more consistent his delivery has gotten. He knows where his his hand and his feet and his hips, all his piece of his delivery are in space.

00:03:56
Speaker 1: And I think once.

00:03:57
Speaker 4: He he it's cool to see a guy that worked as hard as he did at it for it to click.

00:04:03
Speaker 1: I think it's you know, it's a sum of all parts.

00:04:05
Speaker 4: Like obviously Chris is the is the biggest part of that, but you know the training staff and Morgan with you know, the all the strength conditioning pieces, the nutrition, the physicality.

00:04:17
Speaker 1: You know, I'm fortunate to have a lot of really.

00:04:19
Speaker 4: Good people around that that helped me accomplish things that we want to do on the pitching side. So you know, Chris did the work, and but once he started smelling it, you know into.

00:04:29
Speaker 1: Twenty four middle twenty four of.

00:04:31
Speaker 4: Like how we're like, how good do you want to be and how good can you be? And he's just taking it and run with it. Like it's like a game like today against Scooble. It's his first game back. He's done a lot of travel families here, it's just ho hum, and he just goes to work and blitzes the strike zone, you know, and it's like today would be kind of you know, how how consistent can he get when he goes to that two strike slider to write, he's in, It's balanced, it's not hung.

00:04:58
Speaker 1: And that's why we do spring training.

00:05:00
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's it's it's an incredible journey for him and he's earned it every step.

00:05:06
Speaker 1: Of the way.

00:05:06
Speaker 6: You mentioned the word joy.

00:05:08
Speaker 5: I think that's awesome because when I see him pitch, I see a guy that's having sort of.

00:05:12
Speaker 6: The time of his life and he's really enjoying it.

00:05:15
Speaker 5: You know, last year World Baseball Classic, this year, this spring training, and now he's going to get the opening day's start, and I just think maybe the best is yet to come. He's only twenty million years old, he's in great health. He's he's what's he doing with the slider? Is he just brushing it up?

00:05:30
Speaker 6: Or is he adding it.

00:05:31
Speaker 1: No, it's the same pitch. It's just more of an execution focus.

00:05:35
Speaker 4: And you know some of that stuff will change day to day and game the game, but really it's you know, we're talking two pitches of his whole of his whole outing where it's like, hey, you know, let's work on that a little bit.

00:05:47
Speaker 1: You're trying to you have to nitpick right now.

00:05:49
Speaker 4: So but that's what he requires, and that's what you know this game's requiring because he is so good right now. But yeah, I think joy, you know, I think Derrek Johnson like my mentor for sure in the in life, but pitching, like he says that, you know, you learned everything you really need to know about this game and little league. You know, it's have fun play ard big a teammate, Frost strikes hit the ball, and I think you baseball is a weird thing where it's not weird, but you know, you learn all those things and you go on this journey and he's come backed all the way where he's playing the game like a little leaguer And that's a really good compliment because the skills are better, the routines are better.

00:06:30
Speaker 1: You're a professional these things and you can go out there and play a game.

00:06:34
Speaker 4: And like, I think it's important for pitchers to.

00:06:37
Speaker 1: Be part of the game because you can. It's very easy to be out.

00:06:40
Speaker 4: There and you know you're doing your pitching and doing mechanics and I need to make this pitch.

00:06:45
Speaker 1: I'm flying open.

00:06:46
Speaker 4: But there's a difference mentality of mentalities that I'm part of this thing. It's a living, breathing thing. I want to be in it with the hitter. I want to be in it with my teammates. And that's what Chris looks like when he's pitching. He's he's out there, he's having some fun, but he knows like it's not at the sacrifice of competing, Like it's he's not joking around. It's it's joy and enjoying your baseball and enjoying your pitching.

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00:08:15
Speaker 3: You talk about like going back to his roots. I feel like Noah kind of got back to I don't know, not as roots necessarily, but he talked about doing more long tossing the offseason. I talked to you the other day about it, and I thought it was just fascinating in terms of how that can maybe help him get a little extra tick on his fastball. And can you kind of for those that didn't maybe read that story, kind of explain how kind of going back to that can kind of help him be a better picture this year and kind of bounce back.

00:08:44
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think long toss and long toss has been a great thing forever and we've probably gotten away from it a little bit where the job is throwing the baseball. And I love cloud care, I love weighted balls. I love anything that we possibly can do to help the picture better. I think there's a there's for sure a place for those. But for a guy like Nola, like you could say, hey, we want you to throw harder, we want you to do this weighted ball program. It's like a guy like Aaron whose physicality is as good as anybody, and maybe in life like he's that put together. He's he's as strong as he ever has been. He's still moving fast. So a lot of it, like the what we were talking about the other day, it's just using log toss as a strategy to reveal a velocity, it's probably there right, And to do that you got to you gotta let the ball rip. So like my favorite way to do long toss is you're just going very easy and you're leting distance create intensity. So I can throw a ball pretty easy and get the ball one hundred feet throw. I can throw the ball pretty easy and get one hundred and twenty feet. I got to put it up in the air, though. But once you get out to two hundred and two fifty, that easy mindset has become intensity because the ball has to get there right, And you're pairing that with on the way in, he's you know, pulling all that that freedom out into a ball on a line, and I think for him it's just revealed.

00:10:07
Speaker 1: You know, oh I can't, I can't move this fast. I'm good.

00:10:10
Speaker 4: What we're talking about too, It's he's he's at the tip of the spear command wise, so you know, if we sacrifice just a bit there to throw a little harder, the calculus or just the math works out there for him, and you know, he's done that, and there's a piece of it's almost a pitcher's version of meditation. When you're throwing, there's not as much of a target, you're able to just kind of throw and can get kicked guys back to like enjoying, you know, catch play and throwing.

00:10:38
Speaker 1: But it's been really good for him.

00:10:40
Speaker 3: Do you get any sense that he's like excited about where he is, because you know, when we talked to him, I always joked at you don't know if we talked to him interview postgame, you wouldn't know if he through eight scoreless with nine punch outs, no walks, or he gave up five runs in four innings, like he's so even keel. So do you get any sense that he he's like more excited than normal or is it the same thing with you?

00:11:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he's definitely it's less trying to think of the right word. It's not tinker, but it's less like I gotta get this right, I gotta get that right. So everything, and I think the work and the long toss it's kind of got him in a spot where his deliveries in such good spot. The pitches came back quicker than they ever have kind of ramping into the season, So there's a little less like the changeup's very good right now, the curveball is very good right now and kind of the rising tide lifting all ships for him.

00:11:34
Speaker 1: So there's a little more focus in bullpens, like we.

00:11:37
Speaker 4: Don't have to do as much work, just kind of calibrating the shape of this and the shape of that. It's like we can go to work and face hitters and talk about you know, hey, let's work on getting the curveball on both sides of the play, change up on both sides of the play.

00:11:48
Speaker 1: More pitching things.

00:11:51
Speaker 4: Aaron throws a lot in his pins, but you know, you can only work on so many things when you're throwing twenty five thirty thirty five pitches in the side. So we're able to kind of get right to it, and that's that's fun for Aeron, you know. But yeah, I mean he's he's even killed as they come. There's a lot of times he'll throw a pitch in the pen and I'm like, you didn't like that, and he goes, no, no.

00:12:11
Speaker 1: I did. So that is it's it's it's business approach.

00:12:16
Speaker 4: But he's doing in his own way, like there's a lot of joy there and he loves to compete, but he loves making pitches.

00:12:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's in a great spot right.

00:12:25
Speaker 5: Now in that little tick of velocity, what does it do for his across the board wrap apart?

00:12:32
Speaker 4: Well, I think for him it helps keep uh, you know, pitches where they're intended to throw or be thrown. So I think the four team he typically like if you're throwing harder, he typically probably are getting more extension. You know, you're able to flight the ball. And for him, like keeping a ball on his glove side when he wants to be on the glove side, I think it's it's a little bit in jest, but I say to a lot of the guys like it's easier to command a sniper rifle than it is a NERF gun. So I think, you know, he has a lot of movements. So in a lot of ways, the movement we see on some of the tracking stuff is similar, but the ball is kind of tracking to that spot. And then I think from attacking hitters, like if hitters are having to be ready for ninety three ninety five versus ninety ninety two ninety three, it's at easier to get away with some things.

00:13:21
Speaker 1: It's also easier to pitch.

00:13:22
Speaker 4: How he just pitches where there's an incredible mix the curveball's a little harder.

00:13:26
Speaker 1: And I think when he's throwing a little harder, the curveball.

00:13:28
Speaker 4: Being around eighty eighty one, like when he's touching those higher, higher velo curveballs, like they become really good. So I mean he can get it done at eighty six too, right, It's just he's got a.

00:13:39
Speaker 1: Little bit of margin for air and the strike zone.

00:13:41
Speaker 5: How much of his season last year was just physically he just didn't feel good.

00:13:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's that's the majority of him for me. You know, it's it's tough to battle nicks and like the nix and bruises and the small here, small air and like you if you don't feel great, it's really tough to be all in and play the game and make pitches. And so he's kind of battling that. And I think he's so in tune with his delivery. You know, there's a gap there where he kind of wanting to get the move right. So the pitches are right, but there's some things limiting him and the delivery. I think anytime you have, you know, anything with your feet, it's it's really hard because it's such a strong bait. That's a big part of the base and landing and feel and stride and direction.

00:14:26
Speaker 1: But he did.

00:14:26
Speaker 4: He did a really nice job navigating that. But you know, having that perspective, it's all. It was also a great time for us to kind of whittle down and talk a lot about his delivery.

00:14:35
Speaker 1: So this offseason with the long costs, just getting really clear on what we were after and when he was after. And he's he's gone done the work.

00:14:43
Speaker 4: And again he's in a great spot, as good as I've ever seen him in spring training.

00:14:49
Speaker 3: Rob Rob told us after Friday's game that laid out the rotation and he said, Andy's Andrew Panter's going to pitch. I guess that second game against the Nationals, he said, we've told the Andrew that he's that he's made the team. And it's been kind of cool talking to him after his starts. He seems to be super self aware of the things that he does right and also the things he does incorrectly. I think it was like two starts ago, he had that really good two first innings against the Orioles. The third inning, the vello he's fell behind, the vello dropped and he's like, I was just kind of slowing down my pace and I can't slow down my pace and I've got to stay aggressive. And then he seemed to like be strong all the way through against the braves the other day. What's kind of impressed you about him this spring and that that does he have a lot of self awareness about himself?

00:15:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that's the most impressive thing to me.

00:15:36
Speaker 4: And I you know, a lot of times that perspective and the ability to kind of even have that perspective inside a game takes time, takes experience, takes you know, some somebody that's kind of brought you under their wing.

00:15:50
Speaker 1: And I think he's kind of got that. Naturally.

00:15:54
Speaker 4: The game is slow for him, and I think because it's slow, he could he can't get slow in his delivery.

00:15:59
Speaker 1: Some times he can get Maybe.

00:16:01
Speaker 4: It's not overthinking, but you're really in tune with this and that. So I think it's a it's a carrying skill for a starter to be able to, you know, have an idea of what just happened, Like you don't come out of this like, oh my gosh.

00:16:15
Speaker 1: Where was the pitch?

00:16:17
Speaker 4: And his his awareness, his ability to be aware pitch to pitch, his ability to like reconcile the inning that just happened, have a conversation and go and make an adjustment inning to inning, Like it's it's really good, and you just extrapolate that in between starts. It's very good. And think he's gotten better like regulating intensity in his sides. So he's doing a really nice job, especially for a guy his age of balancing the game and competing with the work, because sometimes those can overlap and you can get in a weird spot in the game. So it's this happened, you know, like he's saying and like, what do we want to do about it? And we'll work on a little bit, and it's just gotten a little better each time. And when he has had that little snap through with the orioles, like there's like there's just awareness.

00:17:04
Speaker 1: So it's like not like, oh my gosh, what do I do.

00:17:06
Speaker 4: Well, I'll just do this and I'll make a decision to do it differently, right, he doesn't.

00:17:11
Speaker 1: So that was really good. In Atlanta the other day we.

00:17:14
Speaker 6: Two walks this spring.

00:17:15
Speaker 5: Yeah, given last year with maybe some command control issues, is that pretty encouraging.

00:17:19
Speaker 1: To for sure.

00:17:20
Speaker 4: I mean he's gonna throw the ball to plate, and I think first year after Tommy John there's just other things.

00:17:25
Speaker 1: There's things you can't even you know, you can't control for he came.

00:17:28
Speaker 4: To really evaluate in a sense, but he's his ability to throw all his pitches in the strike zone, he's gonna really help him out. So I think he can he can have games where the fastball is really good and he features that.

00:17:40
Speaker 1: There's games where the sweeper is gonna be really good, the curveball.

00:17:43
Speaker 4: But I think similar to Nolan, like your ability to throw a bunch of pitches for strikes, it makes you really tough.

00:17:51
Speaker 6: What do you consider kind of a win for him this season?

00:17:53
Speaker 5: He pitched one hundred and eighteen innings last year between a couple levels.

00:17:57
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm sure there'll be a jump. I don't know what.

00:18:03
Speaker 7: Is it.

00:18:03
Speaker 5: Just make every start be healthy, as simple as that, and the talent will rise up.

00:18:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I have a really number.

00:18:11
Speaker 4: I think it's it's one of those things it's easy to say, like, oh, we do you know, twenty twenty five innue jump? We do the X percentage jump. But I think leaving a little breathing room for what guys could be capable of. I think with our our training staff, guys around him the bullpen we have, you know, like a win for me would be just him his best or his good showing up consistently. I don't need him to really be better than he is. I don't need him to do more than it's capable of. And I think if he just does that, we'll figure it out and he'll get better because of it. The game will teach him a lot. The big leagues have a have a knack for teaching you. So I don't want to necessarily put a number on or like this amount of starts. It's like today, today, the start, and then we'll we'll make adjustments because you know, it's kind of what you have to do, no matter if you put a number.

00:19:01
Speaker 1: On it or not.

00:19:02
Speaker 4: So I think it's just how good can we get at this turn and him being completely honest with how he feels so we can address things, which he's done a fantastic job, and you know, managing the work in between, Like there's just a lot of learning the first couple of months to because we do have a you know, we want to win a championship. So taking care of the first first, you know, call it month, month and a half, two months, because we.

00:19:28
Speaker 1: Got a double vision.

00:19:30
Speaker 4: We talked about it's like today this week, but we're also like we need to have an.

00:19:34
Speaker 1: Eye on where we want to be, where we want to go.

00:19:37
Speaker 4: Do we need to take a take some medicine here for what we can be down the stretch.

00:19:41
Speaker 6: And the team you're a team built for October?

00:19:45
Speaker 5: Yeah, And is that kind of fit in with the philosophy of getting Zach Wheeler ready for sure?

00:19:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a pretty good one.

00:19:56
Speaker 5: Yeah, you want him firing in October for sure?

00:20:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean if we're at our best at the end, that's we're in a good spot.

00:20:05
Speaker 4: So that's that's definitely a piece of you know, I'm not saying this is the case, but he's like that is an example, like if it's one more, start to feel really great about you know. The biggest thing we talked about with anyone that's on a rehab or building up, it's like, when you're here, let's you're here, yeah, right, and you're ready to go, and you know, that's that's kind of where it's at right now. We'll see, you know, his next one will just start that process. But he's, uh, we're a lot better if he's in there. You know, he seems to be in great, great spirits with everything.

00:20:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean if he's not, like I've said this to Jim before, like, if he's not, he's really hiding it well because he seems to be really upbeat. The body language is great, you know, on the mound, coming off the mound, and he's live vps.

00:20:52
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean, the just very very normal, Like you know, he's not.

00:21:00
Speaker 1: Throwing ninety nine yet, it's still a little build up of that.

00:21:03
Speaker 4: But the turns of how the ball's exploding out of his hand, the finish on his breaking balls, the split, like all the whole package is the ball's flying very well. There's not you know, kind of the weird fastball here and there where you're kind of working through your slot. So I think the biggest thing with what he's gone through is that slot's been really consistent. The shapes of his pitches have been very consistent. So the command's been pretty good, right, and I think he's also he's super loose, got a lot of things going on as delivery. There's always a calibration period for him in spring training where it's like there's a lot of checkpoints in his delivery he needs to go through, but he's kind of blown through those in a good way, right, So you know he's in a good spy. I think you know, the velo comes from the games intensity to build up. It's not he's not throwing slow by any means, but you know, the whole show is looking very good. So I think you know he likes where he's at. He's in a good spot to keep saying that. Yeah, we're excited for him to get out and get going.

00:22:07
Speaker 6: You're close to him.

00:22:08
Speaker 5: Did you get a feel how much he missed it down the stretch last year in October? What a It was a tough thing for him to deal with not being there.

00:22:18
Speaker 1: He for sure wanted to be there.

00:22:22
Speaker 4: He loves he loves pitching, and he likes the ball in big spots. So anytime he's not able to do that, you know, it's a great teammate. And yeah, I mean you kind of you want guys to feel that way. It's like, we got a lot of dudes that they like having the baseball in their hand, which is it's easy to say, but some guys don't necessarily love the baseball and big spots, and he sure does.

00:22:53
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00:23:14
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00:23:38
Speaker 6: Now, how about switch real quick to Wizarto.

00:23:43
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, so they signed Lozarto a big contract extension.

00:23:46
Speaker 6: Are you involved in that behind the scenes?

00:23:49
Speaker 5: Do they come to you and you and say, hey, we're thinking of making a big investment in this young man.

00:23:53
Speaker 6: What is your opinion on that?

00:23:55
Speaker 8: Uh?

00:23:56
Speaker 1: I mean a little bit.

00:23:57
Speaker 4: It's kind of you know how Dave and Presson and just everyone like we're always kind of talking about things. So I mean, but it wasn't a lot a lot for Lizardo just because of you know, it's pretty pretty well known how you know I think of him and that it's just how he carries himself. So there wasn't just a lot of that. If it's more probably more on the business side and how how stuff gets done that way. But yeah, I mean from a standpoint of you know, who you'd commit to long term, Zeus is he's exactly what you want the attention to detailing is work, the aptitude, the teammate in him, like how he's how he's taken a process that worked, he's addressed things that maybe didn't work in the past, and he's elevated and he's taking advantage of all these things that we can offer in the training room and weight room.

00:24:48
Speaker 1: Like he's just he's just that guy.

00:24:51
Speaker 3: So he's throwing a split change is that? I mean what I mean, it's what do you call it? That's where change up, split fosh split change.

00:25:03
Speaker 4: Like he's just he's we're trying to get the ball to to have more more drop to it.

00:25:08
Speaker 1: That's really.

00:25:11
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, that's all the names people can call them.

00:25:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was it's go ahead, go ahead.

00:25:18
Speaker 4: Sorry, No, I mean it's just there's infinite amount of ways you can kind of grip change up. Yeah, kick change, spike, double double kick change.

00:25:26
Speaker 1: So we asked lazarre.

00:25:27
Speaker 3: Thos because we loved like geeking out on grips and how guys learn how to throw pitches. And you know two guys that were we cover, I mean I covered Jamie Moore and Cole Hammill's had great circle changes. So I asked, heyesus, I said, does anybody throw a circle change anymore? Do you even learn it? He's like, I think everybody's kind of doing like a were like a split type of thing.

00:25:46
Speaker 1: Is that is that?

00:25:46
Speaker 3: Is that accurate? Like would you ever in the off season go, hey, we want you to throw a change up. Here's a circle change up grip or is that kind of like not really in vogue now? Or is it just what have you learned about it?

00:25:58
Speaker 4: I guess right, depends on who you ask and if but me me speaking for myself, like I think you want to have the ability to not have like and a way of doing this. It's like, hey, this is how we grip change ups, here's how we're gonna throw them.

00:26:13
Speaker 1: Because everybody's different.

00:26:14
Speaker 4: Everyone's arm actions different, their their pattern of how they kind of work through the balls different, what they're capable is different. So you're trying to use all these fancy grips, the bosh kickchains, you're trying to create.

00:26:26
Speaker 1: Everyone's trying to create kind of same shape. It's like, do we want to kill.

00:26:29
Speaker 4: Run and have to act more like a splity to go really down low spin rate, or do we want more run? But everybody needs it to have depth. We need change ups to typically have depth and run. It's just a question of how much based on all your other pitches. So like for Zeus, I mean it's not not secret, Like the four seam is a big part of his game.

00:26:51
Speaker 1: So just creating as much separation on that as we can.

00:26:55
Speaker 4: But I'll say on the change up, if I had someone that I was starting and just gonna start learning a change up, I would put a circle change in their hand right away because you never know, right And I think there's a let's start at the white belt level part of this that it's you know, a lot of you can do a lot of crazy grips, you can create a lot of cool numbers on a track man, and we use the heck out of those things.

00:27:21
Speaker 1: But change ups are unique that if you just have one that's good.

00:27:24
Speaker 4: Enough and you can throw it competitively in the zone and fastball counts, you have a chance to get a hitter out. So this is a pitch that's built to get a hitter out. Now, if it's really good, you can start talking like we're going to strike guys out with it. We're gonna get a whiff with it. But circle change works for a lot of guys. I think the guys that maybe they throw it and it acts too much like a fastball. Then we got to start, you know, moving the finger here, splitting the grip there, curling a finger like, doing things because there's I mean, there's infinite amount of things people have said, I want to squeeze it between my thumb and ring fingers, my pinky finger.

00:28:01
Speaker 1: Why I moved my thumb up when I want.

00:28:03
Speaker 4: To make it move this It's like it's a field pitch as much as any pitch. So just kind of tests our grips, specifically to zeus and one he feels good with, and it's like to me, it's just a change up.

00:28:16
Speaker 1: You know, it's a.

00:28:19
Speaker 4: I don't know exactly what you'd call it, but it's not as it's not a crazy grip, but he's he's got to feel through it and like, ah, it's it's it's been really good in spring and he's getting a little more for it.

00:28:30
Speaker 1: But it got really good into the year.

00:28:32
Speaker 4: Last year he was throwing a lot and those like those fastball counts and getting guys to think is a lot of hitters are trying to get him, you know, close to him. With the four scene, it's a pitch we get him out with. I don't need it to be that nasty, right, It's just it needs to be because a nasty pitch thrown the competitively. It's like, I just want to present this thing as a fastball and they swing at it like it's a fastball and it's not.

00:28:57
Speaker 6: What an addition he's spent to franchise. Yeah, can we switch real quick to the bullpen? Get a few thoughts on the bullpen.

00:29:03
Speaker 5: I mean, when I go back to the acquisition of Duran to trade deadline, he's still kind of a new face here and you had Bowling and Bacchis and Keller, so in a lot of ways.

00:29:15
Speaker 6: There's a lot of new looks down there. Any any any of those new looks really excites you.

00:29:21
Speaker 1: I mean Bacchus is, I mean, Doran is very good.

00:29:24
Speaker 4: I think we got a feel for him, and it's cool to have a spring training with him and get to know him even more in like a build up mode.

00:29:32
Speaker 1: He's great. But Bacchus has.

00:29:33
Speaker 4: Thrown the ball incredibly well, very unique look, really good competitor. He's slinging it from down under and he's you know what he did the other day and in Tampa against the Yankees, like he he threw some really good pitches through the heart of their order and it was it was pretty good.

00:29:51
Speaker 1: So he's a he's a tough look. He's throwing a little harder.

00:29:54
Speaker 4: Uh. You know, he came in thinking if we can get him throw a little harder, and he kind of showed up and he was like, oh wow, he's still harder. Yeah, and he's kind of rolled with it. So he's he's got him out very well.

00:30:04
Speaker 1: He's it's it's been quick innings, it's it's been clean.

00:30:10
Speaker 4: He's attacking him and I think bowling, especially today was kind of a kind of capped off a pretty good spring. He's working on a bunch of different things, Like the sweeper is a very new pitch and today is probably as good as as good as it's been. He started throwing that kind of towards the end of the offseason, so it's been really impressive. Like how fast he was able to pick that pitch up because he also has a really good slider. His change up was probably as good it's been on camp today. Fastball is, he's got a very good fastball, and when he's throwing hard like he was today, it's maybe the best fastball. But I mean he gets some of the most with at the top of his own as anyone in the game. So you know, he's he's thrown a bunch of strikes. Back, he's thrown a bunch of strikes. I think our guys that are you know, returning guys, they've been very clean as well. So it's it's been and it's been good from that perspective.

00:31:02
Speaker 3: Yes, I just have one last question is like what gets you like what do you love most about being a pitching coach. I mean, you know, I don't know if you have any angles on managing down the road or if somebody said, hey, we'll sign you a twenty five year deal. You can be a pitching coach. You know what, what kind of gets you fired up doing this job?

00:31:25
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:31:25
Speaker 4: I mean I love pitching. I love baseball, and I it's it's what I know the most. And I think the biggest part of being a pitching coach, the coolest part is you know you're working behind the scenes to try to keep guys in the bump.

00:31:42
Speaker 1: We're bumpers in the bowling alley. I kind of think of it like that.

00:31:44
Speaker 4: But you you know, you take something that you feel, you know, maybe they're struggling with something, maybe you think that it's going to help them, and they buy in and they it works, and there's like those light bulb moments where you see guys take the next step. I think those are really cool because you're, you know, you're a small piece of that journey.

00:32:01
Speaker 1: You're trying to.

00:32:02
Speaker 4: Get them to where they want to be, and I think, you know, doing it here with the ownership, we have the team, we have the type of pictures that we have. You know, I couldn't ask for. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. It's the fans, like the weight of expectation is fun, and getting hitters out is fun. And doing it at the highest level and the biggest spots is fun. And I think, you know, trying to get these guys that are already really really dang good at this game a little bit better. It's a big ask and it's it's it's fun to try to figure it out, but you know, getting to do what you want with the people you want to do it with, around the players that we have and the pictures we have, Like, I can't ask for much more than that.

00:32:51
Speaker 3: So I and then this is literally my last question is when you go on the mound during a mound visit, obviously we don't know what you're saying, but is it is it always busy? Do you have any like sarcastic sense of humor if you want to calm a guy down, Like what is that? Because I was talking to some pictures about JT. They said JT always comes out and does the same thing, goes how you feeling, Uh, we're good, We're gonna get out of this. What do you what do you got for this guy? Some guys like Wheeler and Tywan will say you pick I don't want to you know, just just pick it for me. What are you generally like out there?

00:33:22
Speaker 1: I don't joke a whole lot.

00:33:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I know, it's just you're not out there because like a guy's pitching, well, so you because something's going wrong.

00:33:28
Speaker 4: But I think you know JT's JT is great because he'll take his own visits. So like usually when I'm out there, it's it's for sure to take a get him to take a blow. I usually say that. I mean it's mountain visits are are funny. It's like, you know, you want when they go really good, usually have something that you're on guard for. You've communicated, we've talked about before the game, and it's kind of showed up. But a lot of it, a lot of it is JT. And you know, nine times out of ten and it's it's you know, what are you feeling and how you're doing?

00:34:04
Speaker 1: And they typically say I'm doing good.

00:34:08
Speaker 2: You know.

00:34:08
Speaker 4: I think there's a guy he came into camp a couple years and he named Joel Turner, and he coaches guy's archery, and he didn't know anything about mountain visits and he he's like, well, what are you kind of the same questions and what do you say out there? He said, Well, you know, usually say how you doing? He goes, hell, can you get a good answer? I'm like, never, they always say good.

00:34:29
Speaker 1: So sometimes I will say, like, you know, what are you saying to yourself? What's the self talk?

00:34:32
Speaker 4: Like what do you And it's like, oh, my slider's bad right now? Right, And then you can kind of get a little bit. But we're you know, we're typically looking at like movement and the delivery, giving him a blow, and then it transitions quickly to JT and we're talking about the next hitter, cause it's getting a little.

00:34:51
Speaker 1: External focus like, well, you know this guy, what do you wanna throw? Ah? Now, maybe give him a little bit of a plan.

00:34:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's it's not reinventing the wheel, but trying to trying to give him something.

00:35:03
Speaker 1: Though.

00:35:04
Speaker 5: The most the most famous Mound visit in Philly's history in the only eight World Series, when Brad Lynch was getting ready to face Rakinski for the final out, Rich Duby goes with him out right, yeah, Rich, He says, you ever faced this guy?

00:35:18
Speaker 6: And Lych says, yeah, he waffled me.

00:35:21
Speaker 3: And Ryan Ryan Howard's he had to cover his mouth with his glove.

00:35:28
Speaker 6: Slaughter threw the final out.

00:35:31
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, Caleb, thanks a lot, Man, I appreciate, thank you, Thank you so much. The Philly Show is brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Subscribe to The Philly Show on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.