#358 - Nicolle Galyon on It Taking 20 Years to Write Her Debut Album +  Her Daughter Loving “Hamilton” + Her Secret to Her Creativity and Being Named Kansan of the Year!

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Speaker 1: Nicole Galley and our guest here. It's just so many number one songs, but her last three number one as a songwriter include Gone, Here You Go, I've Been Gone, I've Been Gone, half of my Hometown from Kelsey and Kenny Beers on Me from Derek Spentley Swing. So she's got an album called First Born that came out last month. It shocks about it. You know, it's not a big, big, massive label. We put on a record, we're gonna support it with millions of dollars, we're gonna do all. But it has slowly and organically become something really cool because she's really cool. She's a great writer, she's a really good singer. She's just creatively different and very special, and so I really think that's the reason of its success. Um, we're featuring this song on the Women of I Heart Country this weekend. This song is called Tendencies Made but I'm can't shave what but it shows little ways I've never been a lead, but I got tendencies. Mama was a real good secret keeper, so it makes sense me. So I Nicole galleon episode three, which, by the way, years ago we had Nicole in just as a songwriter h way back. That's interesting. I just thought about that. We could actually supplement this in a few days and put that older one up to Yeah, that's pretty cool, and there's nothing it's cool to hear that one. I haven't heard that one since we did it. I guess here is Nicole Galleon follow her Nick and Knight Music and I see at n I t E Music, Nick at Night Music and enjoy. When you walked in, you said we haven't seen each other in a while. I don't, and I guess this is social media. I don't feel that, which is weird because I have, like I hugged you, and I guess I haven't hugged you and years, I mean literally and you were like, i've seen you in a while, and I was like, yeah, that checks out. I get. But I mean, as much as people bag on social media, and I think that's there are a lot of things wrong with the way people use it. But I don't feel like I have like not seen you, which is weird. And maybe I shouldn't feel as much of that. And maybe it's because I'm just gone a lot too. They don't see anybody, But anyway, I feel like I'm your biggest fan in the whole world, and I've I was like, oh, it'll be good to see Nicole in today. I don't really gonna see each other in years. Well, I feel the same way. I think. I think I feel connected. Maybe that's it, Like I feel I think I know enough about you before, we have enough history too then to watch your life evolve. It's like there's a foundation to be able to just like add to when you just watch somebody. But I haven't seen you since you got married. I haven't seen you since so many things. Yeah, I think the connection thing is right. Also, like I root for you, so I think inside of whatever this internal feeling and um machine that does all the thoughts and prayers and roots and like you're in that because I root for you all the time, regardless of what it is. If if it's you have so many you know, projects going on, and we'll talk about obviously the record, which is great. I feel like at this point if I and I'm gonna say this person, i'mnna say very sincerely, it really is wonderful than it really is wonderful. And we were supposed to do this weeks ago and I got COVID and you invited me over to your house whenever you did a first showing, and I was somewhere. We just have never We've just always like been off somewhere, and so it really is wonderful. Now when I say that, I would like to now take a step back and go A lot of people think it's wonderful. And you were so good at what you do. And I was having a conversation with a couple of different people who are really it was. One was Dan of Dan and Jay. One was Carrie Underwood, and I was like, you guys are so good. People don't want to tell you're, like, hey, good job, because you're probably always here it all the time. And that literally is how what I felt about you before I said that. Now that being said, they both were like, no, we still like to hear it because we're human beings. But you guys are so good at it. People like me feel ridiculous when we say hey, good job, because we know that you know you did a good job, even though I know the insecurity of creating something and it's gonna come back around in a second. But I was with a friend of mine the other day, um, and we we hung out. He texts me. He goes, hey, I just listened to I don't know what it was. Something he said, Hey, that was really good, and I thought, man, nobody ever tells me that I do good. And I went, oh my god, this is why I have to tell people they do good because I liked it, because nobody ever tells me a good job and stuff because I think they just think I hear it and I don't hear it from anybody. Because so anyway, it's really freaking good and you poured so much of your artistry and yourself into it, and you should be really proud of it, and I know you are, but I just want to say that it's awesome. Thank you, and it means it means the world truly. I on one hand, it's like, um, I the d m s and the things like that are a bit of a blur, um, But every time I read one, I'm like, I mean it, truly, You're right, it does mean something. And I never really, um, I really never thought that this was going to be that vulnerable of a thing because I thought I was just doing it for me. But then when it came time to put it out, everyone was like, this is so brave and and I see what they mean. Um, But it is fun to get to get those texts, and I can feel, I can feel the connection with people when they do reach out and say good job. You know. Um. What I'm finding though the most is that people are what it's doing. More than good job is people want to tell me their story, which to me is the ultimate win in this for me, you know, because I keep saying that word connection today, but it seems like that's what I'm getting out of it the most. Did you feel And there are times when I felt this too, but that you were being and people say brave that's always weird thing. But vulnerable if you're being vulnerable in your project that you thought, all right, I being vulnerable here, people are gonna hear it, maybe they feel a certain way about me after they hear it, and maybe they feel differently about me. And I'm gonna be vulnerable and we'll see how it turns out. But then in reality it which is people going, no, I'm like you more than more than you expected. And I think where I felt that the most is how specific I was in in like a song like Winner, I was like, no one else is going to really care about this, but I'm going to be so proud of it that I'm I'm gonna this is where I'm gonna go with this record. But it's just wild how many people. And it's not just it's not the obvious character, you know, it's like a fifty year old man. It's like, oh my gosh, this made me think of this, and I'm like, really, I thought no one would care about this. When I wrote my first book, I'd written a lot of stuff in there that I thought people were going to judge me. And I was embarrassed, not of it, but I was embarrassed that people would feel sorry for me. And that has always been like my trauma is I got. You know, it wasn't a charity. I wouldn't be here as a kid, want to eat, to do anything. And I was so embarrassed of this stuff, and I was like, man, nobody's everybody's gonna think less than me or think differently, and it all like you're saying, it's exactly what you're saying. People were like, hey, uh yeah, that that's me too. With always like a six degree difference, so it's always very close but slightly a little different. But I was like, Man, that to me opened up the world of being creatively vulnerable and speaking from me. And you've written so many songs, but they really haven't been from your face or mouth or name, and you know that's got to be I don't want to use the word pressure, but a different weight. You know, whenever you're deciding to record or even want lyrics to what to put in us on with you singing? It like, was that a factor? It actually was easier because I knew what I hadn't been able to say all these years, because I was having to compromise. That's interesting and collaborate, be so collaborative. Yeah, and um, it didn't feel like pressure. It felt like creative freedom actually more than anything. Um, even things like picking when a record comes out, or like getting to put songs in a sequence on a track list, like those are things that people take for granted that songwriters have never gotten to have that freedom and get to be creative in that way. So from the get go it just felt like, oh, wow, I have so many options. What didn't feel like pressure at all. Brag on you to you a little bit more like I would see even the imagery and the promost promo pieces that you did to me, they were even so much cooler than just the standard promo work. But I would see it in the time and effort that you went through to do it again, even just as a passion piece, as you would say what it was in your mind and what you're making it. It was so heads and shoulders above what these what what everybody else does? And I just would would look at your prom but before I heard anything, maybe I heard a clip of a couple, but even early, and I was like, if you weren't doing the songwriting, if you weren't putting out an art a record as an artist, like you would totally dominate that space too, Like you have some some gift of aesthetics. Thank you. I um, I enjoy it, and I think it's the thing that I don't have um any pressure around because it isn't technically a part of my day job. Like I've always loved editing video and editing photos, and like long before Instagram, I wanted to have a video blog. And so I think it's just like an extension of storytelling for me, and I've never fully gotten to do that, Like I start to get to be a part of the beginning of telling a story with a song, and then the artist takes it on and then they go make it look how they wanted to look for them And I didn't realize how hungry I was for that part of the process until this started. And honestly, that was a part of the process that felt really vulnerable because I I think I think I found a safety in being like a little bit behind the scenes, and I think I had some I don't know, maybe some messaging early on in my life that was like, don't get too big for your bridges, which was like a Midwest, you know, blue collar mentality that I think kept me in that safe space and not really ever stepping out and putting myself out front. So when it came time to go like, oh, you're gonna put your photo on the front of this this record, I was like, no, this is the scary part. Now I have to own that this is about me. Um. In fact, we the original creative concept for all the visuals and aesthetic for the record was for me to do selfie photos in all these different mirrors where you never saw my face. It was just gonna be me taking a photo of myself. But then you never saw my face in the mirror because I again, I was just not quite ready to sit there and show of face and name and be like this is really about me. But then then the project just took on a life of its own once I got the creative the right creative people around it. But now I'm kind of like, I feel like I'm opened Pandora's box. I'm like, I want to make more things like this. So, alright, you're rich and and I definitely want to get to some of this specifically, But you're rich and to make more things, but you're also running a label, and you're also writing songs, and you're also and I would never be someone to say you can't do all these things, because I just I wouldn't um. My company at times has said, hey, you're you're doing too much. You're you know, you can't focus enough here, and I don't agree with them at times. At times they have been right. Mostly not, I've done, in my opinion, really good job of putting the amount of work into the project that needs to have the work. How do you feel about that same situation happening to you. I think the word that's like I keep going back to was just integrity, because this conversation is coming up a lot right now. People are asking me this question, and I'm like, I just want to make my time decisions based on integrity. If I've entered into a label deal with someone, I want to handle that with integrity. And when it comes to a point where I'm not doing it that way anymore, than I need to make a change, Um, when I'm not showing up for the things that I've you know, committed to showing up too, and I can't do that anymore, and then includes my family too, like, um, But I think I think if you had asked me a year ago about this record, like what would you do to support it? I would have had a pretty small answer and a safe answer of like I'm gonna put it out and it's gonna be precious, and it's gonna sit there on Spotify and Apple and and I'll feel like this was for my this was more for my legacy and for my like bucket list, and and then I'll just go right back to work a year later. Now now that it's been out a few weeks, Um, I think I'm a lot more honest with myself about how much energy and Tom I'm gonna put into the record and promoting it because I'm seeing what it's doing to people when they see it or when they hear it, and so I feel like I owe it out of integrity to that project to give it all I've got UM and I don't. And I think all things are connected. What is that all ships rise or whatever that saying is raises all ships? Yeah, I did to check out half with that saying. But yes, I think I think you and I are the same and that we're like both and people like this is going to make this stronger, and it's all gonna I'm gonna learn things through this one process that I can then, like I'm learning so much putting out my own album that that I can bring back an offer to the label side to be able to look at an artist and say, I've actually done what you're doing, and I have empathy and understanding UM and can tell you that some more truths based on my experience as being an artist myself. That's a unique tool that a lot of other label exects don't have in their toolbox. So that's how I look at it. I don't look at them as as they're in competition with each other. I actually look at it as if this could if this record were too No matter where it goes, I'm going to bring all the other people along with me. And that's the point of Songs and Daughters. That's the point of all of it. Now. The other thing I'm learning with age that I'm sure that you have is that you always have the permission to change your mind. And I think as an opportunity, if there were a huge opportunity to come up, I'm allowed to say, hey, I need to take a break from something. I need to pull back from writing for a month or two to do this um. And I'm just trying to make those decisions based on what matters. When I'm eighty years old and I look back on this time, am I going to kick myself that I didn't give my record all I had because of twenty to thirty songs that I needed to write this fall. I don't know. You know when you mentioned with age with me, it was I don't know, seven eight years ago when I was like, yeah, I think the world doesn't mean it's a bad a way like it's it's easily manipulated, not the people, But you can bend it. We're always told it's got to be rigid. This is how the world works, you gotta do it this way. No, the more time I spend here, the more I realize completely bendable. All the rules that you know their rules because they've been set because other people did them that way, but doesn't mean you have to do And in most times you're gonna be unsuccessful if you go against but it's a few times that you are very successful that kind of creates a whole new path for everybody else. And so that has been the thing, and you know you're it's like preaching to the choir when you say that stuff to me, and I say it back to you, like the world's bendable. You can write, and you can be over thirty and start artist's career, or you can be It literally can be done, and because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it won't be done at a just a superior level. And I think that even if you decided to quit after this, I think that it's thing for people to see and go. All I can do is create some good m HM. At the end of the day, that's what it is. Just create something good, and that is your extremely strong base their strategic decisions you have to make. But but, but there are so many people that aren't creating something good but then have all the other stuff, or they have something mediocre are pretty good. They're like, I can't figure it out. You got if you can create something good, you can almost go anywhere and do anything with it. No, you're so right. I'm watching that happen right now, like we've not been. You know how the music business, the whole entertainment world is one big favor. Someone's asking someone for a favor in return for a favor, and it doesn't always look that way to the average consumer. But that's a lot of the economics of our business. And we have not been asking anyone for favors because we just the goal was to put it out and to make it exist, and that was a big enough goal as it was with all the other things I had going on. So then, so now I guess to your point, it's kind of starting to work on its own, which I think is what you're saying, Like you don't have to scream about something if it speaks for itself. Um So I'm I'm just curious right now to see, like even justus. That's good. I think that's where I am. Big picture. It's like, i feel satisfied that I did it, and now I'm curious to see what else it's gonna do. What do you want it to do? UM? I wanted to be heard. I think that's because I feel kind of what I on the back of what I just said from what I've seen so far. When people hear and see and when I say see what there's another visual component of the album. There's a visual version of the album that you can hit play that has not been released yet. It's coming very soon. UM that I think when we show people that or they hear the record, UM, it's it. Um, people start telling other people about it and they want to show it to other people, and so I just want to. I just want people to. I want people to have that experience because people are you know, whether it's someone in my family or someone in the music business that's seen the video or heard the record, they start, Oh, it's it's doing this human thing that's beyond the music business, which is making people think about their own story in their own life. And that's the heart of storytelling. So be honest with me, For a second best case scenario in your mind before you put it out, because best case can be you're playing stadiums and you're like the ZAC attack and you're right, I mean really that that that's always my best case scenario with anything, Like I'm I show as popular, they like me president like that. I have the biggest, wildest best case scenarios, also have the worst worst case scenarios where I die and somebody shoots me and it's like, I'm on both sides. But you, as you're making the project, what was best case scenario in your mind? Um? Wow? As I was making it as big as I would let myself go, was just to get it finished because it was a fight. I was like clawing to get it finished, Like why because my schedule it was nothing and there's nothing convenient there were. I had every excuse in the world and every reason in the world and conflict in the world for this to never be finished. It's a lot to write and make a record and and to really be the driving force behind it. I don't technically have. At the time, it was really just me. No one else other than me and my producers knew that I was doing it. No one was pushing it along, giving me a deadline. It was all on me. UM, So that was the goal when I was making it. Now I would say, like best case scenario, you know, like literally, like when a Grammy get nominated for a Grammy, like those those kinds of things. UM, I would love I would love for it to be commercially successful enough to be able to, um do it again, you know, and as you know, like there's a team around this. Now. I've built a small, lean and mean team of pretty young people that are doing a lot of this stuff for the first time, and we're all learning as we go, and I would love for them. I would love to support that infrastructure so I to be successful, if for nothing else, for that, so that we can keep doing this. Why not put any of your artists on it as a feature because it wasn't their story. Um. I felt like I was so insular, just it was so many of the ideas and concepts for this where I needed to make it about me. And I know that sounds kind of selfish, but there was this I was like, that's why I've it's taken me twenty years to do it was because I was so afraid to make it too much about me. And that's something I think I've evolved. I've grown through a lot of work and self awareness and wisdom with age to realize that that's that's not um, It's not a bad thing to make it about me. What maha carew are doing me? I mean there's a lot of me, um. But you know, by doing you right, you can also do for others really right. Yeah, And I do yes, UM. And I do trust myself that if this word of growing too something much bigger, that I have enough examples now in my career to look back and say, anytime I've been elevated, I've looked for opportunities to elevate others. And so I trust myself with the power that could potentially come with a project or anything in my life getting bigger. Let's go to the first song that you cut? Which one was the first? You not not track one, so I don't want to go easy and go let's check out Torongolan, But which one did you record first? And then I want to talk about after it was done. I think we started Sunflower, Ah, I think we started um Sunflower and Deathbed maybe around the same time. They were the first ones to go in and like sing on and put some production on. Let's play Sunflower like crazy Chid you that you're super that sick till's fun. I want to find place since So you wrote that with Jimmy Robbins and Sasha Sloan who were friends with Sasha and Henry. And she's just she's freaking awesome. Um. So you know that song is a little brighter than most of sasha songs. You know, so you are you and Sasha friends? How did that write come together? Sasha and I have become songwriting sisters over the last i'd say three or four years. Um. I was a super fan first um her. I heard her song Thoughts, having no idea who she was, and I was like, oh my god, I want everything about this. Um. And then I wrote a few songs with her for her for her records. UM. We wrote a song called House with Them Mirrors and is It Just Me? That has Charlie Pooth on it, and I hearded that one girl, is it just me? I don't know that that sounds awesome? Thank you? Yeah? I love right with her and she's um, she's just so good. She's like this hidden gym in Nashville. Nobody knows. She's like a hidden resource almost, but I wrote a lot with her, and I think the thing she has the most songs on this record, and it's because the more the more I wanted to get human and real and maybe daring with an idea. She was the one that I felt safest to try that with Um because she's one of those yes people that's like, yeah, we could write anything, and she's kind of I think our journeys to becoming artists were similar and that we love writing with other people, but there were a lot of things that we wanted. I think she would say this too. There were topics that she wanted to write about for herself that there were there weren't other artists that she got to write about that with, and so that's how she became Sasha Sloan. That's kind of how I became firstborn. Um. I was just like, I want to write a song about being tall, I want to write a song about being a working mom. Like there's nobody to write those things with. Is it easier to vulnerable things? I think I know the answer here, but with people that has been vulnerable with you when you're writing things, and I kind of feel like that's a bit of what you're saying that if you have with Sasha she's like porner guts out, then you feel safer to pour your guts out with her. Just on the flip side of that, yeah, yeah, And I loved getting to do some two ways two on this, like I have Disney World with her, it's just the two of us and younger women. Was just me and Hillary Lindsay. And I think there's something even more intimate when it's just two people in a room. It's funny. You look at these like pop songs and there's twenty four writers on them, and I'm like, could anyone really do like a big deep dive on their feelings in that room? It feels I think the less people and I think that around the whole project, like the less input, it was almost like the more real and the more aligned everything could could be. I find if I'm writing jokes or I'm writing something funny and there's more three or four people in the room and only two of them laugh, I'm like, oh, I must not be right. However, that's you. You. Actually, if I'm with one person we're writing and they laugh hard, that's just it. I just know one on one. They were actually dialed in. They were listening with working together, like that's funny, and I shouldn't base it because I have the same issue on a much lower level obviously, when I'm writing things to say on stage, and I have tried to stop doing that as well, because I can't judge on two people that don't laugh. We have four people in a room. I like work with one person and if they laugh, I just commit to it. When you're creating, will you sometimes get so deep in it that you don't know if it's good anymore? Yeah? And I don't think I was that concerned with how good it was. Okay, let me let me take the word good back. That is a very generic word. I meant for quality. If I'm doing something and I stand in a long time, I'm like, oh, this sucks because I can't Sometimes I'll lose it. I'll lose whatever that instinctual thing that made me go for it. I go this isn't funny or this isn't compelling. You've done it at a high level for so long, either for others or now yourself, do you get into that point where you're you've been in it for a while and you're like, is this even good anymore? Yeah, I think I'm a pretty fast writer, um, And I think that that where I tend to start to wonder if it's good is if you get stuck on something for a long time, like there's one line or there's one part of the song that you just it's almost it almost feels like a helicopter, where like the propeller has to just keep moving for me too, for me to keep moving forward creatively. But like once you get stuck on something for a really long time, a lot of doubt creeps in and it's almost like I just my brain turns into knots and I can't And that's where I lose perspective, is when you just get stuck on one thing. So I'm more like, Okay, let's just keep bouncing around to get these parts that we know can work. Because when I say, there are some people that want to sit there and grind for six or seven hours on an idea, and it's almost like almost feels like masochistic. I mean, it feels like we gotta just sit there. It has to be difficult in order for it to be good. And I'm I'm more of kind of like, let's just oh, let's just keep it moving, um, because when it slows down, I I lose perspective and I'm like, uh, why are we even doing this? Replaying some the death bed, which is the same three writers here, any symbolism gonna be the last track? You think? Yes, I knew. I actually made the track list for the record, um before I wrote any of the songs. Um, they made the track list for the Okay, you can't just say that and walk away from it. You wrote the track list of the record before you wrote the songs, Okay, now please explain how you did that. So I thought about it like a book, because I've been saying this is kind of like a memoir, which was the purpose was to leave my story from my kids until now right. And so I had the idea for Firstborn in I've realized. I was like, oh, twenty two is my lucky number. I wonder when my birthday is on seven twenty two, And it was a Friday, and on that day I was like, I'm putting out a record that day. It was as simple as that is so weird. But so then the idea for Firstborn came a couple of months later, I screenshot it and wrote out Firstborn Nicole galleon seven twenty two, and I texted that screenshot to like three or four people and like of my close friends, not even really in the music business, and I'm like, I'm putting out a record this day accountability, and that makes it feel real to me and even aesthetically to see it. I just made it like in a note or something. So then from there I gave myself, um all of one So I said, I'm not even going to think about it until January one, and I'll have it finished by the end of twenty one. So when January came around, I it's almost like I had invited these ideas to kind of come to me, and I started to write down these titles. UM. I had like a bit of a creative burst, as I would say, and just started thinking of all these keywords like sunflower, UM, younger, woman, like things that I'm like, that's somehow tied to my life UM, and I just kept and then I compiled them and then I put them in where they would live in my life. Winner obviously being first because I'm born in winter, deathbed being last because that's the end. UM and filled in the blanks in the middle, and then I just kind of ruminated on them for like a month or two as I was living in my hometown in Kansas at this at this point, so I was like going for jogs in my hometown, seeing the old houses I grew up in and so um. Once I kind of concepted what each word, like, what what is some What what does sunflower mean to me? You know? What is the meaning of that? Once I did that to all the songs, then I wrote out the writers beside them as if the song was finished Winner McNally, Osborne, Sunflower, Robin's Sloan. No, Yeah, I did. And then I called my friends and I said, I like, I called Sasha and Jimmy first. Jimmy was always in on this from the beginning. He's been the one that was like, when are when are we starting? I don't have to produce it, but I'm helping you do this, like you know, and he obviously was going to always be a producer. But I called them and I'm like, I got a couple of ideas, and then I just started texting back and forth with Sasha like what if Sunflower was this? And she'd hit me back, like what if it was this and what if you were you know, superpower with Sunflower And so we had like skeletons of the ideas once I showed up for the right But I have screenshots in my phone of the whole track list with all the potential, like the writers I wanted to write it with, and it didn't end up being exactly that I would say of what the record is ended up being that way. But I think that was also me like just being hungry for that part of the process, you know, writing pieces like I get to write all the time, but getting to create a body of work I've never really gotten to do. So that part was I think the part that I was most excited about. Well, if the word power ball comes to you and some numbers afterward takes out to me, just to send that over and that that would be awesome. Your hometown in Kansas, you're you know, you're very proud of it. You go you live there for part of the year. Still I'm assuming, right, you know, I know you did. Um, So when you go back, how do they treat you there? Um? Like they have no idea what I do? Almost um? And I think that's why I love it so much. Um, they know me now because we lived there for a year and a half. They know me now more as like Charlie and Ford's mom. You know. Um we lived there for a year and a half. And the last week that I was there, Um, I was on this CMT like camp Fire Sessions or something with Kelsey Ballerini and it was on TV and it just happened to be on a night that I was getting together with some of like all my mom girl friends there and so we ended up watching it and they were like, now, this is so cool, but why are you on here? Not? Can you explain to us why exactly she would ask you to be on here? And it was so refreshing because I had been there for a year and a half and they know I'm in the music business, but this niche thing of being a songwriter and being behind the scenes is it's kind of hard to explain, and so I'm not treated any differently. I don't think you'd have to ask other people there if they think that I am or not to get the true answer. But it's almost the opposite where I think people are kind of like, nah, don't forget that you're just we remember you as sixteen, don't get too big for your bridges. So it's a weird and I would even say if you put them beside each other, a red juxtaposition of I go home, same situation. But also at the same time, I don't believe their bridge is big enough to hold me. So it's like I have to not be too big for my bridges at home because they will tell me and they're right. But I also again, there are no bridges that I feel like can restrain me in any way. And sometimes I miss you know, I'm a little wrong sometimes on both sides. Uh, But it's coming from a small town like you did. It is definitely when I go back to Mountain Pine or Hot Springs, it's definitely that it's a reset almost and a reminder of don't forget now you can dream as big as you want, but don't forget where you came from. Your hometown has how many people? And what kind of you went to school? Was your was that was your school in your town? And well how big was the school I graduated with? Thirty eight in my grade? That's pretty small? Pretty small? Yeah, I think you say reset. I think what it brings me is perspective, you know, And I um, no one's actively trying to bring me down, But I think what it is when I sit on my porch there and I watched my neighbors mowing their yard or the kids, right, I'm like, they don't give a crap about the music business, and it allows me to get out of the bubble of it and to go don't take it all that seriously. We all get all up in this business of music and we think that it's the whole world. There's when you go back there, it's like nobody cares, you know. And I think they love the music when it comes through the radio speakers and what the music means in their life. But all this ego stuff that happens behind, you know, in the conflict and like the who got what in Nashville, it just I call bs on all of it when I go home, and that's it's really refreshing, and for me, it's a reminder of what like real life folks do, not the dumb craft that I do all the time, which I'm like because I can. I'm in a room five hours a day for five days a week, and then I'm usually on a plane going to do a TV show or do some comedy, and I don't unless I'm purposefully going back into the real world, I don't ever get to it, not because I don't want to, because I just stretched myself so freaking thin. The good thing about being married is she makes me do that, and not in a way of like you must. But we spent four days in Oklahoma with their family, who were great, But that's a it's just it's a whole different world and one that I'm so grateful that I have because we're just in a small town in Oklahoma, going to the lake, cooking dinner, going to Chili's, and that is that's just it. And and again it just for me is uh, it takes me a little bit of a little bit out of my my opic vision of just what I only see for me and for what we're doing here. But I think that's so refreshing about just what you do generally and even not even just this project, but what you promote almost universally, which is that they're just going back to Kansas and that can be a metaphor for anything, and you know, everywhere. But and it's represented pretty well inside of this record too. And I'm assuming that was very important to you. Yeah, I am. It's funny. I think people would have probably guess the overender on how many hometown songs would have been on here, but because I'm like notorious for overwriting about how much I love my hometown, but there aren't really any hometown songs on the record. But that town made me some of the things that you're some of the songs are about we're created in a town like yours. Yeah, yeah, that I was made in that town. So if you're write about how I was, how I came to be, you're indirectly writing about Sterling, Kansas. And I think to your point, I love like when you were saying Chili's Lake cook out, I'm like, oh, yes, it's like a drug to me, Like oh normal, normal, But even more than that, it's like, as you and you know this better than anyone in town. The more successful you have, the more it starts to revolve around you. And it's nice to go somewhere where it doesn't revolve around you. And I'm sure to some people that sounds like really attractive to have things revolve around you, but it's nice and it's like nobody, nobody cares what my schedule is their whole. They have a whole world that operates without me. In Sterling, Kansas. That town is doing just fine without me being there. So it's nice to go and kind of get humble done that way. Yeah, it's funny you say that. I was doing an interview with some I was doing press for my Snake in the Grass show and they were asking about my wife, And it's funny. What you what? You just said? What I was like, you know, I used to think I was the sun, just because I've been the sun for so long. Either I'm grinding it out trying to feel like I'm a son, or once you get to a point, everything just starts. It's all it's orbiting you all the things. And I said, but now that I have a wife and her family, and I said, I'm just a comment, I'm not even a freaking planet anymore. And that's awesome. It's a it's a different pressure. It's a lesser pressure in ways, but it's a more pressure in other ways that I'm not good at. That. Being a human is tough for me. Like I think I was very human for a whole long time and then I just kind of checked out. I was like, I don't be human anymore of the stucks this this is uh, this hurts. So what did you turn into? If you were cyborg that just works all the time and has no room for anything at all ever, and so but now that human is starting to like crack out of it again, just like coming out. But I think that's what your your music is too. It's like it's so human and you're so specific. Like I think that's just what makes the project obviously there that when you double meaning words and you have a you know, your pre court, all of the technical stuff you're great at, You've done that so many times. But it's how distinctly specific you are that allows people to feel and understand in their own specific way, which is weird because they can have You can say something really specific and somebody else relates in a super specific way that's not exactly your way, but they still find a relation to it. So I think that's really the power of the project. But that's just my opinion. What do I Everybody's gonna have an opinion and feel differently about it, But I feel like it's so human and it's so at times, the won would be the word I would use for this because if I'm being extremely vulnerable, it's not always it's my best, but it's not always my prettiest representation because it's real. And I think some of your songs are so real that you had to go all right, I'm gonna check out of being cool and Nicole who runs label, I gotta be the person that's got a lot of insecurities here. Yeah. I think it was therapy doing it. I think it. You know, people probably sound like it's some pr sound by it for me for me to be like, no, I did this for me and my family. I mean, I really did. I It wasn't I really there was no performance element to it because I don't really I think I don't really know how to perform. Have you been practicing and performing when you've played song you've sang publicly? So I don't want to say, but have you know eventually you'll probably have to do well. That being said, let me just say I didn't even think about this. I called you a few days ago and I was like, Hey, I'm gonna go host the Todays show for a few days, which haven't even announced yet. But if this beats it, I don't care and I said hey. They asked me, like, who do you want to bring anybody up here to play the show? And I just made sure you were available, and I said, I gave him your name first so they could probably call you. I don't know if I'm gonna call you, but I said that because I was also scared they're gonna be like we decided to go all rap, we gonna do all polka. But they said who do you want? And I very first said to you, And so then I was like, oh crap, let me make sure she can do it. But then you may be wrong. But then you said, I haven't really have a performed on TV. Have you perform on TV well as yourself? No? Not really mm hmm no. And I'm every time I do something for the first time around this project, it ends up being better than I ever thought that it could be. So now I'm almost just like looking for that next first, you know, I'm like, oh, so when you called me first of all, I was like, I was in I was at a co write and I went into the bathroom and I was like, oh my gosh, like trying to like play my play cool because I like I saw your text in the co write. Um, I was ready. I forget who I was with, like Jimmy Robbins somebody, and I was like, don't be a jerk, and like I immediately just wanted to Like my mom would be like even if I don't get on there, probably thought of me. But I was in a rite and I couldn't. So I just went to the bathroom and then message you back and I, um, I've always said that the Today Show was like a dream, like a bucket list thing. I just never knew what vehicle would get me there, you know. I didn't know if I would get there as a songwriter, as a label. You know, I've always wanted to write a book. I was like, maybe that's how I'll get on the Today having no idea that. I mean, I've never told you that obviously, and so that just felt. It's just constant affirmation, um, from true friends that keep coming coming through on this project and saying how can I help? And that's what you said, and that the end of your message is like how can I help you? You know, and I hope this helps, So thank you and not and and listen, I think you're awesome and whatever you ever needed in like personal real life it does mat or like here we go, but I wouldn't vouch for it. Also if it wasn't great, Like that's the second layer of that, and that I could be like, hey, come to the pod guest. You know we get uh, you know, a million people a month that will listen to this. I could do that to somebody that sucked and be like come on, but me going, hey, I'm going on to do this. You should come and do this nationally. And I'm going to say I invited you up to play because I think you're so good. Like that's one of those things that I hope you see as that's not me and you're being friends. That's me going like I believe in you the artist and as the performer in the creative that you are, So that's a different that's no. I feel that because I've never felt you endorse something that you didn't stand behind. So that's I think maybe where the weight of that call or that message really came from. I was like, he didn't have to. You know, pressure is awesome, it is, it's awesome. I'm i that word curious. I think that's the thing. I'm like, we don't know what could happen if I play on play it on the Today Show because I've never done it. Who knows who the reach, who knows who could be affected by my record if I got a bigger platform, you know. And so I'm yeah, I think I think I'm learning right now that there's a lot of people that, after being in Nashville for twenty years, are are really showing up for me out of friendship but also passion for the project. And it's like it's making me my mind get bigger and dream bigger. Um, so maybe I will be touring this next year. I don't know, you know, it's just kind of one day at a time whenever, because again they said, hey, I was just gonna do one day at first, and they were like, hey, come up, you can bring somebody. And then it turned from one day into oh, what have you do too? But now it's going to be because the Monday is like a holiday, but I want to do Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, the three days on there. And so then they came and said do two days. I didn't think much about it, and I was like, They're like, who else would you want? I was like, uh, A big fan of this lame Tierra, Why don't you hit her up? I don't even think that's that you guys. I know that she is on your label, but I love her anyway regardless of you. And I had her open shows, you know, for me. But then once they were like, yeah, she's in, I was like, I'm just feeding the hole and Nicole Gallium monster, no, I know, I am. Yes. Um, that wasn't purposeful, that's the thing. Well, and I didn't think. I didn't think that it was. I was just like, wow, you know, because you know, you like, there's a lot of things in this business that you quietly lay the groundwork for for years and years and years invisibly and nobody sees them. And then you you hope that in three to five years some of this stuff will start to like the dots will connect on their own. And this is an example of that. It's like, you know, I signed tire to a publishing deal to a couple of years ago, and a couple of years ago I started dreaming about making a record, having no idea that in one week we could potentially be performing as you know on the Today Show. Um, and I've been joking. Then it's going to be a Songs and Daughters takeover potentially, but just so fun. That's pretty cool. So you've got the record? Are you still writing? Though? Now for other folks, you are, You're still really I am. I wrote four songs last week. Um. I've been gone to Kansas this whole summer, throughout the whole rollout of the record, because I always go to Kansas. Um. And so I just got back started writing full time. My calendars booked as if nothing else is going on, um, as if this record is like not real. But I told some people on my team last week. I was like, we take this one week at a time, you know. Um, I have no reason to start canceling things yet. But if I go play with the Today Show, I'm sorry, I'm going to go to New York, you know, and um and those things. I'm giving myself permission to change my mind. We'll see, we'll see where I am every If you'd have told me a week ago I was playing the Today Show, I wouldn't have believed you. So I'm kind of like, let's see where we are in October and November and in the spring. But I'm writing four songs this week. Um, you know, they're all connected. You know. It's good too. It's also good to get out of my orbit. I've been thinking about myself and this record more than I'm used to, so it's nice to go in and write with other people. With that said, I think I can't unknow how much fun writing for me has become and how meaningful it is. And it's a little bit I've noted. I noticed last week coming back to writing, it felt a little I don't know what what a fair word would be. It didn't quite feel as meaningful to just write a song to sell some beer. Did it feel like it was inside of a formula you've done so many times you just kind of hop back into it. Yeah. I was writing with a couple of guys, um and they didn't do anything wrong. They're guys I've written with for years. But they said they literally said that line of well, we were throwing out ideas and they're like, well, I mean, what's gonna sell some beer? Guys? You know? And I was like, wow, I have not. I've been in that headspace for a lot of years, but I've not been in that headspace for the last couple of months. So it was kind of like a rude awakening of oh yeah, back to the day job of trying to get on the radio again, you know, And that's not what this record. That's not where my head was with making a record, did you or when you go to the doctor or anywhere that's like occupation? What do you put? Um? I put songwriter first. I mean probably out to have it, because that's where all things go back to that I've um. This conversation has come up a little bit in the last year or two. And what feels what what feels like I'm moving toward is more of like a creative CEO, I think, and I don't that sounds pretentious, but it actually feels. It's uncomfortable for me to say out loud and to own that. But I think if you're on paper, if you wrote down all the things I was doing, it might be a fact that even as a songwriter, I'm a creative CEO. You know, in my making this project, I was definitely CEO of everything because I was basically independent, like an indie artist making this. So as an indie artist would tell you like, you are the CEO of the project. So I think that's probably that's not what I put down at the doctor. But it soon enough. Maybe yeah when you I'm gonna ask us forever. But Y a year ago, maybe two years ago, you were cans In of the Year. A yeah, what do you get for that? And I've been waiting to talk to you about that? So what happens? How do they let you know? What's the deal? Oh my gosh, this is so funny. Um, you get a really weird experience at a banquet in a conference room in Topeka, Kansas. That's what you get. Um. It's very political. Um, it's it's the organization that picks cans In of the Year is very politics based. So that whole room was a lot of white haired guys. Um. And then me and I was actually, this makes it even funnier. I was co Canson of the Year with a guy that had done phenomenal work and politics for like the state Education Department, and he was like seventy years old. And every person that's in like the government in Kansas was there. The governor like made a speech and they had this beautifully put together like package for him. The governor spoke and then they're like and now Nicole Galleon songwriter, and everyone's like you know, that's not a creative group of people necessarily, right, And I'm what thirty five at the time, and they're like looking at me. And I made this like one of my cool little instagram ish videos. It was like a bit of a highlight reel, very different vibe than what the State Department put together for this other man, and it was very awkward. Everyone just kind of stared at me, and to be honest, I kind of wanted the night to just be over. I was like, this is not what I thought it was going to be. Um, but it sure looks good on Wikipedia, you know, I agree. Cool. When I saw it, I was like, that's awesome. Hands of the Year. We just redid some of my bio stuff and um, my manager Olivia was like, so do you want to keep cans in? I was like, you watch your mouth. I'll keep cans in the Year over anything else for the rest of my life. Yeah, the night doesn't be awesome for the ward to always last and be awesome. Um, okay, I want to play a couple more clips. We played a couple in a very very intro before we started talking. But I do want to give self care because if I'm I'm just going from memory. If I'm wrong, just slat me. Were you like, did you have like stuff on your face or in a shower? Right? Am I right about the imagery? Yes? Okay, I was in a bathroom. Okay, that's what it was, with like wet hair, no makeup. I had like a face mask on for part of the video. Okay, But that's how good when I say what you did? Visually? I see ten million things a day that people are like this. That pick song, it's just but I can remember. I remember that, and I can. I'm gonna be wrong here, but some color blind is crap? What color was the title? Blues and greens are very similar to me? So are you color? Yes? So is my husband. Yes. Yeah, I'm lucky that he can. He's like brown, he's darker tones like brown's, greens, navies all kind of turned into each other. Anything over like a certain threshold of dark. All looks black to me. So very so, very similar right? Similar? Here is self care? Thank I'm fatterly soul, baby, baby, I'm crazy. Maybe I'm I'm scared to change. Gave me. I can't can't make my self care. You mentioned Rodney, there is a song with just you two guys, I know, the first one we've ever written. I was going to say I was surprised to see yeah, yeah. I mean I can't write a record from my kids about my life story and then not write a song with their dad, you know. Um. We waited as the last song for the record, um, and I think it was it was daunting to write just because I had I had that title five year Plan written down in the track list with just Rodney's name next to it for months and months, but we just never could find time at our house. Like I don't know if you know if you're this way or not, but like when you come home, you're we don't have kids. Yeah that's true, and so we Um. Like I said, I gave myself the deadline to have the record done the end of one and December came like first of December, and I'm like, the records basically done, but I still have not written this song with Rodney because we just couldn't find time. So we were going to a Morgan wall And show like December like fifth or six, and we were looking at hotel rooms and I was like, why don't we just try to write this song, while we're in this hotel room at the show, and he as I was looking at this, like, you know, Hampton, and I'm like, I don't think we're gonna write this super meaningful song in a hotel room at the Hampton, and it just doesn't look inspiring. So we got a tour bus and we're both used to as songwriters going out on the road. I'm doing weekend runs to write for our us while they were on tour. So I was like, let's just get a bus and we're saying we're not coming back to Nashville until we have our song written. And so we ended up writing it. It fell out really fast in a couple of hours, and and that's kind of like part of the lyric at the end of the song says like I'm backstage a show and here we are and this life is so much better than anything I would have planned. So that was we squeaked that one in at the end. But I I think that kind of opened Pandora's box again for me of how much I loved writing with him. Really, we have not written together. I mean, we didn't write to go the first ten years we were married, because he just knew I was fiercely independent and didn't want his career to overshadow mine, which was so loving and wise. But then once I started to have success, we wrote together a little bit with other people for other people, but we had never done this thing where it's like, you're the only person that knows I do have a maximum in two thousand three, and you're the only person that could put that in this song. So, um, I think there's more where that came from. For sure, here is five year plan. Yeah. I had a four bench and a little big offense and two batches us checking calls it out sitting now all of a sudden, got to bring on my finger. Think being single just got knocked off the top of bs because baby don't in a five year plan. So I'm gonna ask you this, and I would only ask you this because you wrote about it publicly. It's not about your project. But I remember looking on Instagram one day and you had written that the Beers on Me song sounded a bit like something you had written. I did not say anything about any specific songs. Yeah, yeah, true, but because it's very similar, So what what motivated you to write that? In the land of everybody just goes, well, there's only so many chords, there's only so many notes you can do because you're now a writer on the song, right, And did that get contentious at all? Um? Yeah, it was complicated. Um for sure. Um, I think you ask about motive or like what you know why. I think I've noticed in Nashville and it wasn't just about that song, but it was a bigger picture where there is a gray area in rooms. You know, you're right, there are so many only so many notes. But in the fifteen years of me having a publishing deal, what feels like writing on top of something else has gotten way more loose than it used to be. UM. And I think I think I felt like some good could come out of just shining a light on on that because I've had so many writers come up to me after her and say, man, you know not you got us all thinking, Like the next week we were we were like about to finish our song and we thought maybe it sounded like too much like this other song. So we pulled the other song up and we listened to it, and UM, and I'm like, yeah, I think that's really where my heart was was, like, I think we've inched our away a little too far into the gray zone. UM, and I think everyone, um is capable myself being first of you know, writing on top of other things, I think, Um, I think I just think awareness. It was just really all that I wanted out of that. There were a couple of people that had mentioned them to me. They were just happy you did it because everybody kept talking about doing it and everybody knew what was happening, and nobody would do it, and they were just like, we just need somebody to kind of be a leader and go for it. It It didn't have to be this sense. It could have been a thousand different, as you said, because it's happening everywhere. Well, that's why there were no song titles involved. It was more about I just want our community to just kind of like look in the mirror and say, like, are we being are we having integrity? You know? And that's just that's between me and myself and you and yourself and the next writer and themselves themselves, and I am and I think you're right. Hughes reminded me of last year when this went down. I feel like the more success you have and the more privileged you have in in whatever position, you're in. It comes with responsibility, and I see why, you know, I see why you need somebody that's in my position who's not worried if I'm being completely honest about my kids college being paid for anymore. I think if I was in the beginning of my career, and I see this happen a lot. I know a lot of I know a lot of situations in our industry where somebody feels like they want to speak up, but then they're afraid to become the villain of a situation that and they don't want to hurt their their livelihood. You know, everyone's just trying to keep their lights on. And being a songwriter is tough top to bottom no matter who you are, but it's you know, I had less to lose, and I felt like that's what leadership is is if you can stick your neck out there and be honest and be true, um, then the people that look up to me are more likely to be honest and true when they become me. And that's you know, while that was a complicated situation, I felt I felt like I was me in that situation, and I felt peace about I felt more peace after I had shared and and you know, shone a light on it. So it um one of the weirder things in my career so far. But um, but you know, I think everything that's happened in my career has happened for me. And I think that that happened for me. I learned a lot about myself for that. What I and again I saw what I took from it, and we'll move off this and be done with it. But what I took from it was I remember going, well, she doesn't, she definitely doesn't have to do this like it wasn't. It wasn't like you had no success and you're screaming that someone ripped a song off of you so you could get on a on right like you. It wasn't gonna change your life at all. I mean really very very little yet and you knew probably what the possibilities of blowback were going to be. I know what the possibilities in this town where I mean, I say stuff all the time and then I get black bault in certain areas until I'm just not anymore. It's just a weird, weird place to wear in. Remember thinking, all right, she's not going to gain a lot from this. Um, she's not doing it because of that. Let's see where this goes. So I thought it was a I thought it was a brave and bold thing to do, and I think other people have felt the same. I my reputation with myself is more important than my reputation with others, and I felt like I was. I liked I like that version of me. You know, my reputation of myself just still a weenie. And it's with others too. So what do you know it's only common? Um? Okay, well, look, I don't want to say. It's just you're inspiring in many ways. Um, I don't know, it's just just what do you say? Just keep on because a lot of people are seeing what you're doing and going, oh, that can be done. And I think that's probably, in my mind, the biggest compliment I could give you is that you're allowing other people to see what can actually be done and that the world's bendable. And so don't freaking stop. It's aspiring to me. You know, it's awesome. Um, I'll end on this. Did your daughter like Hamilton's, Oh my gosh, she's obsessed. I think I have a little fest Maian on my hands. Yeah, I was never in musicals. I was I would play piano kind of in the pit for the musicals, but she's obsessed. It was so fun whenever I saw you guys. I saw on your Instagram she was on the program and I thought they went to but it's here high. I was here. Yeah, I was here in Nashville, Yester. I didn't know. I watched in New York and I go in, We'll hold on wait till you hear the story. I'm by myself. I'm up there doing some work and at my agent was like, hey, how good. Go to Hamilton's. And I was like, all right, bout myself, I'll go. I don't know anything about It was way early. I didn't know how lucky I was to get tickets way early. I think it was before the phenomenon started to exist. And so I go, and a lot of people there, but I go what, I'm sitting down and I'm like and they start the show and they're like, I'm a better deep about and I'm like, all right, I can't really keep up, but they'll start talking soon enough, so I'm just gonna lay back and relax until they talk and I can catch up. They never talked, they just wrapped the whole show. It took about half the show for me to go, oh, I gotta pay attention because they're never stopping rapping. So I set through half of it just going okay, eventually they'll catch me up with their words. But then once I was able to like sit in it and just go, then my mind was blown. Her mind was, well, I wish I would have known. I'm such a don't see a spoiler guy that I don't I don't even know. It was all hip hop the whole time. I wish I would have looked. But then I go, what if it had been spoiled? But then I go, that's history, you idiot. You could have read it in a book in eighth grade, so it really wasn't a spoiler. It's his history. But that's cool that she likes it. Yeah, I've um she's so obsessed with the songs. I've heard all. I mean, I've watched it with her on Disney Plus or something. I don't know what's on, but I've watched it once or twice. But listen to this. I've had to hear the songs a million times, and even still yesterday when I saw it. I was like, I catch something different. There's so many words, and it's so brilliant the way there's like these three lines of how they keep coming back to the same melodies and songs about the whole thing. I mean, it's just it's on another level. I was in awe. Well, Nicole, we've said it all. What do you do now? Do you go and like work on some sort of atomic reactor over? I don't know, Like, what do you do now? Right now? I'm actually going to meet um my manager Olivia and uh cheese Gal. You know cheese Gal Courtney Laque. Yeah she did cheese for us. Yeah, she's incredible. We um we may have a little something up oar sleeve. We're going to go meet and have a little pow wow a song about cheese. I'm into it. That's the kind of music. I need more songs about cheese. All right, you guys follow Nicole uh nick and night music. But in I C and N I T. I mean, it's no. If this becomes a thing, you gotta get it. You're gonna have to switch your name to something people could just say easily, and I have to explain it because if I would just go Nick and nite music, they wouldn't find it. But if I go and I and then I complained for thirty seconds and a second is three minutes just to go follow up. That's how you know who your two fans are. Phil Phill do a deep dive. That's true, and then they tell you you got to change it, all right, you guys follow Nicole. We put up her name up up in this as well, and congratulations, thank you for having me. And I'll see in a few years. But well, and I'll see in a few weeks on today's shot. A few weeks, all right, Bye,